The Second Fortnight (Game Over)

[Aegor]

T-Bone's entry: very, very bad. Subsequent posts are good.

kanye: awesome posts.

VOTE: INAUFTA

A long long time ago I used to play TWG with you on another site but you don't know who I am because I have a different name here

lol does kanye always act like this it's kinda funny but I feel like it will make him hard to read

^both bad


VOTE: Banakai

[Aegor]

Bulge votes are weird. Someone explain; I am not getting it.

[Aegor]

idk; I think the reads post is fine, besides saying anything whatsoever negative about kanye.

[Aegor]

Why are those 2 post bad?

Lame attempt to add on to an RVS vote (suggesting discomfort at just voting someone nekkidly); vacuous statement about kanye. Why would grammar mistakes make him hard to read? Why say that within the first five pages?

Also the bulges posts after his initial reads post look really suspicious, sounds like he is trying to say that if he is like mafia it's because he's "shit at town" and "plays with a scum mindset", and then he mentions that his scum play is different and then doesn't mention how? If he had other suspicious posts he would probbably be my biggest scum read now

Casting suspicion on someone without voting them.

Also joining another wagon for weak/nonexistent reasons.



Happy with my Banakai vote for the moment.

I like T-Bone and do not think he is scum. Do not like Rob. Do not like DGB's boring post. Also, who goes after lurkers less than 24 hours into the game? Plus the manner in which she did it is counter-productive: why not ask a question or prompt something, especially so early in the game? None of it makes any sense.

[Aegor]

T-Bone votes are bad and still have no good justification. Rob's 356 does not have good enough reasons to warrant a L-4 vote, and certainly not any that would merit anyone sheeping the wagon.

I could be convinced though, so if anyone has anything substantive to say about T-Bone with references to particular posts, I am all ears.

[Aegor]

Aegor: why are you voting Banakai? You cited #13 and #14, but those were 14 pages ago. If your vote is still on him he must have done something further to warrant it. Or am I missing something?

My vote is still on him because I think that he is the most likely scum candidate. I do not move my vote without reason -- either some sort of reaction test or the new strongest scumspect. Neither applies at the moment.

And Banakai's last post is also scummy (just like all of his posts, as I have been noting throughout my ISO). First, "everyone" does not believe that he and T-Bone are scum together. Second, why bother posting that he thinks T-Bone is scum? Why not just vote him? Why frame the statement as a retort against those who are asserting a Bana/T-Bone scumteam, as if it is inconceivable that scum would every vote each other?

This is the ultimate in fence-sitting. Like seriously.

"This wagon and votes are bad, and there are no good reasons to vote this person. Seriously, though, come up with some good reasons so I can sheep it."

Come up with reasons and see if I sheep. Then you can vote me. Until then, maybe concern yourself more with justifying your votes and less with a hypothetical scenario.

Aegor

Jul 25, 01:21am Jul 26, 03:03am 0 days 10 hours

5

Get over it. I have been keeping up with the thread diligently, and have make substantial posts. I will post more if I have a reason to, but I am not going to spam (q.v. the last three pages) just to pad my postcount.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Aegor

His Banakai vote is very weakly justified.

Are you serious? My vote on Banakai -- which was the

first

vote on him, by the way -- was justified with reference to specific posts, and I elaborated upon my dislike for those posts. I have several times since then pointed out other problems I have had with Banakai's posts.

Since then, several other posters have voted Banakai. Tell me which of

their

votes was better justified. Show me their justifications. And then read my freaking ISO.

[Aegor]

The fact that it was the first vote on him doesn't matter in the slightest. How on earth would that make a difference?

The fact that my vote was the first and there have been several since indicates that something is bothering players about Banakai's posting. I am not hopping on a bandwagon with weak reasoning; I am sure that even you can see the relevance of that fact.

Yeah, your elaborations were weak as hell. Vacuity? Discomfort? You're really reaching.

I do not think so. And I have not yet seen a stronger case on any other player. You are more than welcome to point to one.

Three more times. Banakai's made 33 posts total.

Of which most are void of interesting content. Would you like me to point all of those out just so I can pad my numbers?

Their votes aren't relevant.

Actually, they are. If not a single other person has justified his vote with reasoning that is much stronger then mine, then your entire case is undermined. In case the reason why is not apparent to you, I will explain. My reads, as do most others', reflect the every-growing posting corpora of the other players. My threshold for saliency is high; most of the games do not help me generate reads. I therefore can operate only with the posts I have and with what I notice, which is not everything, to be sure.

What reasoning would be

strong

reasoning to you? What players, and what posts specifically, contain

strong

reasoning? If you can identify one (or several), great. Your case stands. But I have seen many, many weak accusations being thrown around. That just tells me we are still at the stage where deeper cases are not able to be made.

It's the very fact that you've justified your vote more than they have that makes me want to vote you

because so much of your justifications are about trivial things.

This game has very little content. I do what I can with what I have.

[Aegor]

So, your case is total bunk.

All you have to do is point me in the direction of whatever amazing case you think is up to your standards. Until you do so, then my assertion that your standards are unreasonable stands.

it doesn't mean your reasoning is not weak.

And my weak reasoning is irrelevant unless it can reasonably be expected that I have some strong reasoning. At this point in the game, I think my reasoning is fine.

[Aegor]

No

[Aegor]

No

Mmm

Re-read Bana's ISO. I guess we just have to disagree, since I do not consider lack of trajectory or lack of read provision before voting scummy at all at this stage in the game. I actually find my problems with Banakai's posts way more compelling than anything T-Bone brought up.

But w/e, since I get my accusation regardless of how this day ends.

[Aegor]

It's just that for the one player he has gone into more detail about his reasoning is incredibly flawed, and for all these other players the reasoning isn't there at all.

It is not flawed. You just do not find it compelling. There is a huge difference.

[Aegor]

Aegor if you're town, acting like you don't care about this game doesn't help anyone. Read what the guy posted, and actually contribute.

You must feel so good about yourself.

[Aegor]

No, it's flawed, for all the reasons I went into in #447 and more.

You did not point out any logical flaws. You simply stated that you disagreed with my reasoning. Recognize the difference.

[Aegor]

Flawed. Not logically flawed, just flawed. It's an adjective. Learn the difference.

You did not point out any flaws either. You simply disagreed with what I think is scummy. Learn the difference.

[Aegor]

No, I explained why your reasons for thinking Banakai's posts were scummy were wrong. e.g. Banakai's post contained no nervousness

In your judgment. In mine, it did. Please do not confuse your opinion with some objective reality against which others' opinions should be measured.

vacuity isn't alignment indicative

In my judgment, it was alignment-indicative in this case.

neither is casting suspicion on a wagon while voting someone else, etc

In my judgment, Bana's casting suspicion on a wagon while voting someone else was alignment-indicative.

Nothing is inherently alignment-indicative. In my judgment, Bana made those posts with scum intent, and that manifested itself in his posts in the ways I describe. If you disagree, fine. But saying that my case is flawed while supporting an argument based on lack of trajectory, which is itself not alignment-indicative either, is, shall we say, flawed.

It would follow from them being wrong that your case on Banakai is flawed.

Then I have nothing to worry about, since they are not wrong.

[Aegor]

I'm going to go ahead and do that until you explain what you saw as nervousness in Banakai's posts

You are more than welcome to ISO me for the word "nervous," or even the stem "nerv." You will not find anything; you were and are putting words in my mouth.

why you thought vacuity was alignment-indicative

It was used to justify fence-sitting on kanye. Read my posts.

and why you thought casting suspicion on a wagon while voting someone else was alignment-indicative.

Because it was a scummy push for several reasons:
1) Naked vote on T-Bone
2) No explanation of why T-Bone is more vote-worthy than The Bulge
3) No explanation of why T-Bone is a stronger scumread than The Bulge
4) Preparation for a future vote on The Bulge is such a wagon developed...
5) Which happens in 177, with no explanation or anything in between.

Which is nothing more than a fleshed-out explanation of what I said in the first place.

If you don't do that, you're simply asserting that Banakai has committed scumtells without providing evidence that he did so or even explaining why they are even scumtells, and therefore you are not substantiating your arguments. So your case is flawed.

Unsubstantiated does not mean flawed. Learn the difference. And anything that is not a statement of fact is ultimately epistemically unjustifiable, but that is certainly a philosophical rabbit hole.

[Aegor]

No, I wasn't; originally I said "discomfort", it got mixed up with "nervousness". Where do you see discomfort in Banakai's RVS post?

Vote + irrelevant out-of-game statement that felt forced, as if the RVS could not just stand on its own. I already said this.

Literally nowhere in that post do you say explicitly or even insinuate anything of the sort, lol

Then read my posts better, lol.

None of that explains why casting suspicion on a wagon while voting someone else is scummy.

My original statement was just shorthand for all of the reasons I just discussed. You could have just asked me to elaborate; I would have. If someone else had posted what I had originally posted, I would have immediately made the connection to all of the more detailed statements.

If an argument is unsubstantiated, it is flawed. I'm going by flawed as 'having or characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection' and having no evidence with which to support an argument certainly seems like a fundamental weakness to me.

Our definitions of "flawed" are different. Mine requires something to be wrong with the substance of the argument. But w/e, not important.

So which is it? Did you think he was nervous or not? Because you seem to defend your idea that he's nervous, then go back and say "Oh wait, I never said that", which suggests you didn't even remember what your case on

T-Bone

Bana was.

I read Quilford's post quickly and just responded. I knew what he meant; when he persisted in his error, I corrected him.

@aegor: what are your scum reads like besides banak?

VOTE: Marquis

I will have to re-read or skim or ISO some other players. I have been narrowly-focused recently, as you know.

[Aegor]

Let me see if I understand.

Marquis posts nothing of substance all game. Then posts an enormous post that consists 100% of tenuous meta and concludes with a townread on a player that was not really under strong suspicion anyway.


Are people seriously okay with this?

[Aegor]

I really, really want to townread Rob. But his posts in the last page are basically a scumclaim for me. But he and Banakai are not scum together. But I think Banakai is scum.

Will ISO Rob tomorrow, but I may change my vote.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Aegor

Reasons plz.

I do like farside's posting less and less. I can't put my finger on it, but I'll have to delay iso'ing her until tonight, I'm off sightseeing.

Great, another vague statement that will probably be followed by a naked vote. Are you ever not useless?

I sort of feel bias against age because of his shitty attitude towards me from Austin powers game.

Sorry that you sucked ass in that game. I hope you can put it behind you.


VOTE: DGB

[Aegor]

Spoiler: Let me know if you have any questions

THIS IS TOWN:

oh and also I have paranoid gun owner on odd numbered days that are divisible by 3 and a lynch occurs and during the day phase a full moon occurs, plus I have 1-shot roleblock

Please leave the fakeclaiming to dgb, she does it so much better.

THIS IS SCUM:

I totally got blindsided by this game.

Vote: No Lynch

Because I love everyone.

Banakai is scum, too much non-game related distractions. He's uncomfortable with his scum role PM.

Kanye is town and I can always read kanye, my word is gold.

Truthfully, I'm just sad that I wasn't a Lover, because, damn, you know, everybody loves Fridays, right?

Right?

I mean, that's why my name is Fridays. I just want people to love me T.T *runs away crying*

Really scummy

Dammit he's too smart for me guys. I give up.

Smells of caught scum.

These clowns are posting less than the mod:

Untrod Tripod Jul 24, 10:30pm Jul 25, 09:45am 0 days 1 hour

7

Marquis Jul 25, 01:17am Jul 25, 05:50am 0 days 5 hours

5

Quilford Jul 24, 11:01pm Jul 25, 03:36am 0 days 7 hours

4

farside22 Jul 24, 10:32pm Jul 25, 06:29am 0 days 4 hours

3

Aegor Jul 25, 01:21am Jul 25, 03:48am 0 days 7 hours

3

So, Banakai, T-Bone, and chances maybe one of the lurkers.

I would certainly lurk if I were scum. Just don't draw attention to myself.

We should shake-vote some of these bozos.

VOTE: Aegor

I don't think dbg has room to talk about lurking (1) game is not even close to 24 hours old (2) she had a total of 2 post before she came in and put here post in thread then opted to call out "lurkers" instead of scum hunting in the game.

I am scumhunting, I already identified several townies, caught 2 high-likelihood scum candidates, and paid attention to lurkers to not leave any stone unturned.

Your accusations are disingenuous, except for the part where it's early to scream at lurkers; it doesn't hurt for lurkers to know we're not going to forget about them.

So I did look at Aegor's posting history and it could indeed be scum.

Quilford's posts are bad.
Marquis's posts are bad.
Aegor's posts are bad.

hiplop is OK.
INAUFTA is OK.

Narrowing down to:

T-Bone
Banakai
Quilford
Marquis
Aegor
farside - only 2 of her 13 posts don't mention me, so 85% of her posts are almost completely about me.

Why don't you call out more lurkers. It's been a few hours

You're right, it's been 1 hour and 4 minutes already.

Here they are again:

Quilford
Marquis
Aegor

Which one is your buddy, farside?

Also sikrit town tell, TBone is town.

Yeah TBone really is town.

I've got the lurker report farside boss

I knew you were waiting.

Marquis

Jul 25, 01:17am Jul 25, 06:40pm 0 days 19 hours

6

Aegor

Jul 25, 01:21am Jul 26, 03:03am 0 days 10 hours

5

These two still have fewer posts than the mod.

farside, please explain your town read of Aegor since you're chainsaw defending him.

Marquis only has 6 posts, 4 fewer than the mod.

sorry for inactivity, i've been playing marathons since friday and neglecting everything else semi-busy today, but bbl

And sorry but this is scum

Would speedlynch to avoid a flee

What happen to aegor scum there ?

Aegor is looking awful scummy but Marquis is starting to look worse in fact

VOTE: Marquis

Marqui

oH HERE. I had that same thought.

VOTE: Aegor

I do like farside's posting less and less. I can't put my finger on it, but I'll have to delay iso'ing her until tonight, I'm off sightseeing.

Maybe someone else can try to check her out.

[Aegor]

'reasons plz' votes dgb without reasons
'another vague statement that will probably be followed by a naked vote. are you ever not useless' votes dgb without reasons
'sorry that you sucked ass etc' votes dgb without reasons

My reasons were provided thereafter. Thanks for playing.

I called her out earlier on being terrible-town and now I'm convinced its just scum. Opportunistic scum

I am a dude, by the way. And I challenge you to find out.

[Aegor]

1. Only when someone asked for them

What difference does that make? It was clear that they existed. I suppose one could argue that not listing the reasons right away is an attempt not to have to provide them at all, hoping that no one will ask for them, but that seems to be quite a gamble.

2. Listing posts does not make it very clear what your reasons are

If you cannot see what I would consider the self-evident scumminess in those posts, then I have no desire to attempt to explain it to you.

[Aegor]

You are aware that you've just criticised another player for posting a 'naked' vote, right?

DGB has a string a nekkid votes. I have yet to see an explanation of why I am the most vote-worthy out of all the people she has called scum.

What reason would

any

town player have to not explain their case on who they perceive to be scum?

Enjoy the list of posts; that is all you are getting from me. I also have no motivation to defend myself against or explain myself to you, so consider this conversation at an emphatically final end.

[Aegor]

Caught up.

At no point will I make any attempt to defend myself at all.

Consider this a statement of standing intent to hammer as soon as I reach L-1.

[Aegor]

Yep. So...I'll get mine.

[Aegor]

My prime suspects at the moment are Banakai, Rob, DGB, hiplop.

Why UT?

[Aegor]

at this very moment who would you accuse and how certain are you that they are scum?

I will respond to this tomorrow, after reviewing some ISOs.

Still kind of want to be lynched. Someone please put me at L-1.

[Aegor]

Do you want your response or not?

[Aegor]

Aegor is scum. No real town wants to lynch themselves over a scum read, which would give them double the chances of hitting scum (one lynch and one accuse vs just one accuse)

It does not give me any meaningful advantage. I have zero expectation that scum will be lynched today. Why would I not want to lynch myself? If some other town is lynched, then I am at risk at getting my accusation thrown out because I am myself the most accused. Unless the rest of the players are self-destructively vindictive, my own lynch gives me a higher chance of success. You are forgetting that I do

not

necessarily get a second chance of hitting scum.

not buying the aegor-pressure leave. He promised to hammer himself and we will never know whether he was going to do it or not. Its an easy way to deflect pressure.

You will if I reach L-1.

Can we just fucking lynch aegor shes obviously scum

Yes, please do.

Aegor, explain why you would want to self-hammer yourself as town. How does it help you achieve your wincon?

See above.

I'm tempted to dance him into L-1 to see what would happen. But if there is scum off the wagon they could just quick hammer too. If Aegor was serious about getting himself lynched he would have already brought himself to L-1 and let that possibly happen. So I don't know, this is a weird play. Would scum really tempt the rest of the playerlist to lynch them in an effort to prove they aren't scum?

Why would I bring myself to L-1 and hope that someone else votes? Much easier and reliable to self-hammer. If someone else promises a hammer if I get to L-1, I will totally put myself there.

Yeah, I'm not really sure why zoraster said he would not be playing against his win con. If you die, you

automatically lose

no matter what role you are.

That is simply not true. I still get an accusation.

[Aegor]

hiplop's jump onto my wagon looks really bad, even ironic given the "opportunistic scum" charge.

[Aegor]

Below are also awful votes:

So you're claiming to have scum motivation, then, Aegor?

VOTE: Aegor

Cool.

Crap reasoning; strawman argument; nothing original; no depth of thought whatsoever; standard scummy bandwagon leap.

I would say that
Scum: Aegor

(omg banakai bandwagon scum post right here)

[...]
VOTE: Aegor
Yep I got on the tallest wagon again I must be scum vote me kiddos.

(I actually avoided posting because everything I post get's called scummy, so I was just hoping to make it tommorow for a sliver of a chance to win, but whatever I basically gave up on winning even before I started)

Do not know whether obnoxious or scummy.

[Aegor]

As I said, if I get to L-1, I will hammer myself. If someone else is willing to hammer, I will put myself at L-1 gladly.

[Aegor]

And scum have an incentive to keep a viable accusation target alive. Hence there should be some attention focused on those players who steadfastly refuse to vote me but are not really trying to scumhunt elsewhere.

[Aegor]

so basically if you lived up to your word you would vote yourself

For a lynch, yes.

[Aegor]

Some town player may.

[Aegor]

And both scum could already be on my wagon, as you say.

[Aegor]

give me one good reason that you think mafia wouldn't hammer you

I hope mafia do hammer me. I am still not quite sure what about this you are not getting.

[Aegor]

But whatever y'all want to do, do it soon. The only party that benefits from the deadline melting away in this completely unproductive morass is scum. Either proceed with my lynch, or look elsewhere.

[Aegor]

If both scum were on your wagon it would be very helpful to the town to know that, correct?

They could not know regardless.

Scum could be one-on, one-off. Once I am put at L-1, scum refuses to hammer. Someone else does, theoretically. The on-wagon scum flees. What do you think will happen next? It is WIFOM anyway.

[Aegor]

Aegor is scum tho

Great, so my lynch should proceed.

[Aegor]

At this point, every Town member becomes a Third Party Independent Private Investigator and will win or lose for themselves. The lynched townie may make an accusation within 24 hours of his lynch, but may not post again in thread. (New)
At the end of 14 days from the start of the game, Independent PIs must have submitted via Google Form at least one accusation. The most recent accusation counts.
After the 14 day deadline, the game ends and the accusations are tallied.
If 9 players vote to end the game early, the game will end early. Players will have up to 48 hours but no more than 14 days after the game start to make an accusation. This will be the only vote count.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Aegor

[Aegor]

I am playing to my wincon. Given the currently most popular wagon, my confidence in this town's collective competence is approximately 0%. I am expecting a town lynch to end this day. Even if both scum are on my wagon, that would mean four players at least think I am scummiest (or at least most voteworthy). Why would I want to risk losing my accusation?

No one on my wagon seems interested in doing more than nothing. Do not blame me for their complacency. I am a reactionary.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Rob

[Aegor]

@hiplop:

Tell me more about your potential scumreads and why. Your jump on my wagon was lazy and ill-explained, and your dismissal of my alleged AtE felt more like retroactive justification than a genuine response. So share with us deeper thoughts, please. Alternatively, tell us your townreads. Or something.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Rob

Coming from a guy begging to be lynched...changed your mind pretty fast huh?

If I get to L-1, I will hammer. But I am not going to hold my vote on myself indefinitely with no purpose. I would much rather be lynched because the reasonable townie will have realized that I am being kept alive as a way to attract accusations; lynching me is pro-town for that reason. But this town consistently refuses to employ reason, so I do not know what you want me to do.


Also, way to be useless.

[Aegor]

Do not blame me for this town's general incompetence, MS. Also do not blame me for exploiting the setup to achieve my wincon. It is not my fault I have not been lynched yet; I have made every effort to make it happen.

[Aegor]

No one is compelling everyone to fixate on me and my lynch.

Still waiting on hiplop. Or for anyone else to pick up on hiplop.

[Aegor]

look at the playerlist and keep talking about "town general imcompetence"

literally every1 here has played for a year+ except Fridays

Experience does not mean competence. And, as I have stated, I have somewhat more intimate knowledge of this town's ability to discern scum than anyone else at the moment. I am, after all, an authority on my own alignment.

[Aegor]

VOTE: hiplop

Not getting your farside supsicion at all, DGB.

[Aegor]

How about you play to the wincon you actually have at the moment, rather than the one you'll get if we mislynch?

My wincon does not mean I must lynch scum today. Again, you are asking me to risk forfeiting my chance at winning by placing my fate in the hands of the other players. Most of them have done squat in the last 2-3 RL days (no offense meant -- it could be RL stuff or whatever). I think my concern about my prospects is reasonable. So please back off.

We still have time left. You can lynch me now, later, or not at all. But just stretching out this game until we have to lynch someone at deadline benefits no one but scum. So maybe you should scumhunt or something.

[Aegor]

Questions about farside case:

Spoiler:

This is farside's stated read list This was on page 13. Still nothing. No town reads? Who the heck has no town reads???? Ah yeah, scum.

Many players, including myself, do not share townreads, or maybe 1-2 per game. I do not see the problem.

All her interactions in this game seem artificial.

This

is a player I want to look like I'm distancing from, or whose tunneling I can use to avoid tying myself to other players.

This

is a whole lot of players that I will not call town to leave my options open.

These

are are few players that others find suspicious so that I will weakly go along with it.

If someone finds a player scum she's likely to agree.

She asks a lot of questions as game-filler and busy-making, but doesn't care about the answers. Asking loaded questions, more loaded questions... and more... but never any follow up.

These comments seem speculative. I am willing to entertain the notion; please link to actual posts that feel fake. I am not really seeing it, nor do her motivations and posting style seem different from other games where she has been town.

Then there is this:

"I thought about replacing out in this game because my reads are all over the place between dbg, aegor, untrod, t-bone, cheery dog and banak."

Thisi quote bugged me a great deal. Replacing out because of game-related reasons??? You can't believe how much this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Who even considers replacing out for game reasons? And the reasons is "I have too many scum reads?" - I didn't read the "bad game" that farside refers to, assuming she was town and had bad reads. The whole thing is extraordinarily disengenuous.

I agree that it makes no sense. I am not so sure it is disingenuous. I will have to think more about that.

Oh my desire to not list town reads is a big thanks to aegor/tier because the bitched about my change of reads and called it scummy.

I did not such thing; that is complete BS.

It doesn't fucking matter because if we don't let him flee today, we win.

Its a super-easy gambit toi make as scum. I explained this already. It's not AtE its tricking town. "OH IM GOING TO SELF HAMMER BECAUSE IM SO MAD" = makes rational townies back off. Aegor is scum.

How am I tricking town? Your quotation is a total misrep. I am not mad. I was not mad. I simply and correctly noted that I would follow the optimal play for me, which was and is to self-hammer at L-1. That is even more true now than ever before, because the opportunity cost of getting lynched is even less given the approaching deadline while the advantages remain the same.

Town: Kuribo, quill, MetalSonic, Friday, DGB, kanye
Null: Rob(leanscum), INUAFTA, Mrquis(leantown), farside, UNTROD(leantown), banakai
Scum: Aegor, TBONE, Bulge

Explain T-Bone, Bulge, and Rob, given that they receive only brief mentions in your ISO. Which is more than most other players get.

Yeah, if you're town so blacklisted. Ugh.

[Aegor]

That's how certain I am about Aegor. HE IS SCUM. Lynch him and I don't have to worry about that.

Quote me where I said I was certain they were partners. It's a maybe at best, and

the only scum tell I have on farside constitues "If Aegor is scum, farside may be scum due to relations."

It's clearly a better idea to lynch the person who is independently scummy than the person who is only somewhat scummy by relations. I'm 99.9% sure about Aegor. I'm maybe like 60% sure about farside being scum. How does that not make sense, that I would want to vote someone I find very scummy (certain about his alignment) over someone who is moderately scummy?

---

DGB, you want to team up to be an unstoppable force of scumbusting power?

Why don't you vote Aegor now, and then I'll accuse farside with you if we're wrong?

[Aegor]

[Aegor]

That was in reference to Banakai's self-vote, not your awesome erotic fantasy fic, of which I would read more.

[Aegor]

There is a point in avoiding stating town reads if you feel your opinion might make your town read more likely to be NK. In this game, this is NOT an issue and you should be sharing your town reads unless you are scum trying to keep your options open.

The setup is open and includes only two alignments, though. What is even the point of listing strong townreads when they are inconsequential to the setup anyway? Also, again, some players just tend not to list townreads.

As for the artificial reads, I have pointed out the type of post I find artificial, and you can easily see these posts peppering farside's iso. She is tunneling a single player, she is going along lynches that look like they might happen (it's easy to vote anyone when you haven't stated town reads), and she is not tying herself to many players.

I guess I just do not find those artificial. Also, town farside sheeps really horrible cases regularly. She jumped on my horribad bandwagon in a game that ended recently. So it is not really alignment-indicative for me, although certainly not ideal play.

The moaning about "having too many scum reads" and "wanting to replace out" is very distateful. She knows she has to have too many scum reads and no town reads because she's scum. She's complaining about it to beat the rest of us to the punch. She's also complaining about her own poor play in another game as town... to beat us to the punch about her bad reads this game, and twisting it ahead of town to make herself look town for it.

Still thinking about this.

Vote: Banakai

Saw something I didn't like, want to see what happens.

What happened? What did you dislike?

[Aegor]

Still want comments on this:

That's how certain I am about Aegor. HE IS SCUM. Lynch him and I don't have to worry about that.

Quote me where I said I was certain they were partners. It's a maybe at best, and

the only scum tell I have on farside constitues "If Aegor is scum, farside may be scum due to relations."

It's clearly a better idea to lynch the person who is independently scummy than the person who is only somewhat scummy by relations. I'm 99.9% sure about Aegor. I'm maybe like 60% sure about farside being scum. How does that not make sense, that I would want to vote someone I find very scummy (certain about his alignment) over someone who is moderately scummy?

---

DGB, you want to team up to be an unstoppable force of scumbusting power?

Why don't you vote Aegor now, and then I'll accuse farside with you if we're wrong?

Especially given Rob's response, which was that he was lying.

[Aegor]

If I wanted to tell you that, I already would have. Give it time.

We do not have time. This game ends in a matter of days. You are voting someone at this stage in the game nekkidly while promising future reasons? They had better be excellent.

I don't give a fuck why people vote you as long as you get lynched. If I can mislead townies into voting you,

I'm all for it - it will still result in everyone's win, because you're transparently scum

. Except for you and your partner, anyway.

So basically to sum this up, let's make sure scum have an excuse to avoid associating themselves with the other players. Yeah in this game probably more than other, spelling out your reads is very important. Forcing scum to spell out their reads because everyone is doing it is optimal. So you are wrong, they are not inconsequential, and I would like all your reads please.

Spelling out reads is inconsequential. There are only two scum; we only get one lynch. What point is there in ranking townies?

I am likely to vote/accuse within this group:
Banakai
hiplop
Rob13

Untrod Tripod
INAUFTA (Cheery Dog)

Italicized names are ones about which I am undecided..

@aegor: when I mention the change of reads I could not remember if it was you or tier part of the hydra.

Probs Tier.

[Aegor]

I don't need to give you reasons at all, Aegor, excellent or otherwise.

You do not

need

to do anything, so that statement is vacuous in context.

I'm doing something to sort through my scum reads that are not you, since I suspect I will be unable to rally enough people to lynch you, and I suspect you will then flee, because you KNOW I'm going to accuse you otherwise

Except I cannot flee, because I am town. I recommend that you secure my lynch today so as to avoid a guaranteed loss for yourself.

[Aegor]

Fine with hiplop lynch. Rob is nullish at this point. Bana still scummy.

[Aegor]

Dgb accuse me then. I don't want to lose this game because you're tunneling me so hard. Let's lynch aegor or bulge and then if you really think I'm scum you can lose on your own idc

Whoops.

[Aegor]

Mod: Please clarify the timing. The OP seems to suggest both that the game ends after 14 days, but also that even if we lynch within 24 hours of 14 days (e.g. with 1 minute left), we get 24 hours to discuss and accuse, q.v. the deadline rules. Also please clarify when the thread will be locked -- if we lynch before the deadline, do we have until the deadline to post, but then perhaps additional time depending on when the lynch occurred (see timing question above)? Thanks.

[Aegor]

Lol

[Aegor]

E

[Aegor]

If t-bone is fleeing, why would I scumclaim? That makes no sense. And I was not lying, I am town.

[Aegor]

Mod, please clarify whether two or more players who have an equal number of votes and more votes than anyone else would both/all lose their accusation.

[Aegor]

Aegor, why did you ask that question, actually?

Why do you think I asked it? I love precision. I saw an ambiguity in the rules that could affect my chances at victory.

[Aegor]

Yes, but you can't influence how many people are accusing you - how does it help you?

I consider all knowledge helpful. And obviously I can influence how many people are accusing me.

[Aegor]

Well I have absolutely no idea who

m

to

accuse

bribe.

FTFY

[Aegor]

Anyone have strong convictions? Otherwise I will just skim the thread again.

[Aegor]

So, how do we want to approach this? The fact that the game has stalled is not good. I think I will try to post some strong candidates later today.

[Aegor]

Below are posts for my own reference. If anyone has any thoughts on them, feel free to share. I care only about my wincon so I plan on making my opinions public.

Spoiler:

Overwhelmingly Mediocre Reads

Prof Friday's reasons are pretty bullshit/too jokey. Post better, please.

I don't know how I feel about T-Bone. The RVS self-vote itself didn't strike me as scummy but some of his later posts did.

Metal Sonic looks kinda town I think.

kanye gives me a headache.

Good night.

I think Friday was joking around and I'm not sure anything he has done is serious yet. I have two thoughts about Bulge, because A) he could be telling the truth as bad as his reasonings are. Or B) he was trying to also join in the pointless BS that started the day and did so badly. I don't know what that says about his alignment yet, because while we were slowly moving out of the pointless BS, we weren't quite there. Does scum try to extend that phase as long as possible? Absolutely.

Fuckin shit

unvote vote the bulge

this looks awful and defensive. Not trying to scumhunt, just tryin to post and not get voted.

Tbone what the fuck are you doing,

The bulge way too unconfident and nervous, you say you have played mafia for like 2 years earlier, you should have no reason to act like this as town, even as scum.

Experience =/= skill. I was a shit player and I likely always be.
Your last sentence tells me that this is not scumhunting. If I have not reason to act like this as town... Or as scum...
VOTE: Banakai

Looking at Kuribo, UT, Cheery, and you as town (I might be biased about UT and Cheery though, because I want them to be town), guys like Aegor, Kanye, as a little less than that, much of the playerlist I haven't seen much out of in the middle (because I haven't seen much out of them), metal sonic a bit less than that and then I'm seeing Rob, DGB, hiplop in my scum pile. Rob for his fake reads, DGB for her weirdness, like she's trying to take over the town but she's not doing it in a pro-town way, and hiplop popped up for the whole "what are your original reads thing' when it was pretty obvious what I was trying to get at with Rob. I know I'm missing some people obviously and they sit in the middle.

Why does everyone think I am scum with T-bone? I still think T-bone is scum and I will in fact join his wagon .

Sorry for not posting much content. By now I have a fairly good idea of most of the people in the set up now, and I know who I would join a wagon against, and who I would not. Right now I am basically watching for people that seem associated with each other.

Ooooooof banak

Dat pedit

unvote vote banak

You guys realise that if scum gets lynched today the partner loses too, so if T-bone was my partner then I would be helping myself lose.

I will personnally hammer his wagon though, seriously. Then after tomorrow if you still don't believe me you can accuse me.

Why does everyone think I am scum with T-bone? I still think T-bone is scum and I will in fact join his wagon .

Hey buddy, so I looked through your ISO and surprise, surprise (not really), while you have said 'Bone is weird" you have nothing in there to suggest you thought I was scum. You told Prof Friday's you don't think scum would crumb being scum, and that was really the only thing you've said about me. Then you decided later "I want to put my vote on Bone". And then changed it for awhile to Bulge. But now that my wagon is at L-3, you so conveniently think I'm the best vote again...with little to no explanation. With absolutely no read progression at all. (This paragraph sums up his lack of read progression).

VOTE: T-bone

Looks like bulge wagon is dead anyway so I might as well. If he flees tommorow...

You guys realise that if scum gets lynched today the partner loses too, so if T-bone was my partner then I would be helping myself lose.

I will personnally hammer his wagon though, seriously. Then after tomorrow if you still don't believe me you can accuse me.

Well Banakai's not scum with T-Bone.

He is probably scum with someone else then. Leaving the Bulge wagon because it died, so useful
VOTE: Banakai

This makes no sense.
First you have a town read on t-bone, you don't trust meta and then you say this next:

Defend based on said meta.
Don't trust the meta read.

Yes that's how meta reads work for me, establish a hint of possible alignment during early game, throw in bin late game and go with whatever the result is from the current game's actual posts.
I guess there would be a hint of the metaread still somewhere leaning me on one side. Other people can use my hints of meta reads which i will post as they establish a slight lean one way, but it's never something to trust fully.

You defended t-bone based on that meta. You called him town based on that meta.
Now he's not scum with banak so you vote for banak.

Oh hells no

VOTE: Inaufta

If you want to lynch me for being a jerk, go ahead, but do me a favor and don't pretend it's because it's scummy. It's because you're policy lynching me in a game where you only have one lynch.

I wouldn't know who to accuse if, as I suspect, Banakai flees. He's obviously scum; I don't know why we'd lynch anyone other than him today. What I don't know is who his partner is, since my other scum suspects all are unlikely partners for Banakai at this point.

You're lynching me because I fueled the flames on kuribo's rage-out. aka I was being a bit of a douche, which is a fair assessment of the situation to be honest. Not my finest hour, and Bulge made me feel guilty about it. If you're lynching me based off of provoking kuribo, then that's a policy lynch. If you have a non-policy reason why me trolling kuribo makes me scum, I'd love to hear it, but I don't think one exists.

Vote: Banakai

, by the way - I was holding my vote before in hopes of getting more out of Marquis and co before the day ended, but I think I have enough at this point. He's probably town, since I don't think scum would take this strategy of starting a wagon on me.

Banak: what are your current scum reads and why?

wow someone asked me a question

I would say that
Scum: Aegor (omg banakai bandwagon scum post right here)
T-bone is a slight lean but I don't rly see him with aegor
Metal sonic scum lean, iso is mostly just fluff imo, and the rest seems kind of made up or "artificial"

I don't really see how these people could fit together well though, besides maybe T-bone and metal sonic, so I should probbably re-evaluate.

VOTE: Aegor
Yep I got on the tallest wagon again I must be scum vote me kiddos.

(I actually avoided posting because everything I post get's called scummy, so I was just hoping to make it tommorow for a sliver of a chance to win, but whatever I basically gave up on winning even before I started)

p edit: I didn't check if the bulge was on the site or not, but he joined my null pile but now that you say he has been purposely ignoring the thread makes me wonder. (yeah ik it's the same thing I did, I was stupid)

[Aegor]

I revoted. My votes have been swaying between Bana and The Bulge.

[Aegor]

LOL

I should have pressed Marquis after her dumb case clearing kuribo. I knew something was wrong, but then forgot about it.

[Aegor]

Neither did most players, sadly.

[Aegor]

Will a lynched townie still get their accusation? That was probably the only thing I didn't like.

I'm not sure. I didn't think it was punitive enough this time around.

I was going to mention that in endgame, which we are now in. I had no incentive to defend myself at all.