Through the Looking-Glass [Game Over]

[Natirasha]

Hi Marquis! Welcome to the Matriarchy!

VOTE: Natirasha

[Natirasha]

VOTE: Nacho

[Natirasha]

Why are we questioning daycop?

Katsuki's a good enough player not to do that shit without reason.

[Natirasha]

Novice Cop sounds like the shit FakeGod would make, admittedly.

[Natirasha]

:/

[Natirasha]

VOTE: SleepyKrew

Shameless zzzzz

[Natirasha]

VOTE: Froot Loop

[Natirasha]

VOTE: Bins

[Natirasha]

I'm not scum, SK.

[Natirasha]

pls dont vote empkingsama

[Natirasha]

Dammit, Empking, you weren't supposed to be scum!

[Natirasha]

Muffin like you actually do sound a bit off in that post.

[Natirasha]

yes u do

[Natirasha]

no, i really don't

Like, not scummy but you do sound off.

[Natirasha]

Wait, what's RC's claim?

[Natirasha]

(we're not lynching muffin today)

[Natirasha]

I mean the only reason I'm giving the muffin wagon any thought at all is because DV and Nacho thought so.

[Natirasha]

Who is in that neighborhood? Just you and Sal?

[Natirasha]

Also looking at Empking, he and muffin do make sense together.

[Natirasha]

VOTE: zMuffinMan

Actually, this makes perfect sense.

My only worry is that muffin is muffin and usually too smart for this.

[Natirasha]

So, I was getting very odd vibes between Empking, muffin and I day one, and I was trying to harness them(if you check my iso, you'll see that), but I never got the feedback I was looking for. Upon re-look, muffin had a really lazy defense of Empking day one, and there is no fire in his posts. I know from skypechat that muffin's burnt out on people not trusting him or interacting with him due to the Don Corleone so that makes sense emotionally with his tone and the phone-in nature of his defense. He had a lot of slight discredits yesterday, and pulled the 'vote onto a random(froot loop)' little scumtrick to keep people of the prefered wagon of Nacho(a common towncred tactic).

[Natirasha]

Ok, this might just end up being the most embarrassing moment I've had in a while, but I think Sala is town.

I'm not willing to go that far, but I tend to discredit Salamence claims right now.

[Natirasha]

muffins was the most protown figure throughout our decision to lolwagon nacho can we not do our best to deplete this game of all the strong players first? (granted emp was a nice shot but still )


RC can you explain whats going on?

Yes, I understand you're scum too.

[Natirasha]

DV, you and I are gonna go far, friend.

[Natirasha]

On an Empking-Katsuki-zmuffin scumteam, they take a really high, cheeky mode and have Kat try and quicklynch a strong player easily, in case anyone is wondering. See Marketplace III for a similar scenario involving muffin. In the given scenario, they have enough cult of personality to push it through, and even it fails, Kat is just ballsy enough to get away with it.

[Natirasha]

It makes sense with muffin's worldview(sorta), it makes sense with Kat's personality, and Empking is always a safe backup strat since, if he doesn't go early, he's very good at not making waves and coasting into the lategame. Now, there might be a fourth member, but I don't want to speculate that far out yet.

[Natirasha]

PEdit: Nati, you're scaring me a little!

I've been in a mafia rut the last few months, but I'm trying to put effort in and this playerlist has enough intensity to keep me interested.

[Natirasha]

My current thought is Katsuki-town, Muffin-scum, but I'm open to other ideas.

PEdit: I do not doubt that muffin can be charasmatic as scum.

Katsuki is the one I'm least likely to be correct about, but I see the scumthread already

Katsuki: hee hee I'm <role>.
zmuffin: omg sick scumteam
Katsuki: ha ha I <3 muffin
muffin: you should, like, fakeclaim and try to get Nacho lynched day one. He's the only one who'll see through us.
Katsuki: Hell yeah
Empking: hi guys

[Natirasha]

no, i really don't

Moreover, this is the point where, whenever I express suspicion of muffin, he calls me a dumbass.

He isn't, because his position this game is a lot more volatile.

[Natirasha]

My only defense for muffin town is that RC would be dead instead of nacho

Nacho claimed cop.

[Natirasha]

Yeah that's something Sal would do, sadly.

[Natirasha]

The main thing stopping me from calling Katsuki scum is that there was a very real risk that his claim could have led to a Nacho lynch. If this had happened, I believe that Katsuki would have been held responsible and probably wouldn't have been able to escape a lynch the next day. Is it worth sacrificing yourself just to lynch Nacho? I don't think so.

I think Kat would have gotten away with it day 2 with this playerlist(high-gambit, expected to fake copresults), with a hard push on someone else from muffin/Empking. It makes sense.

[Natirasha]

You might be right, I don't know, but I do think that scum would be more likely to stop it earlier. If Katsuki had let Nacho be lynched, there was no way I was going to let him go.

Sadly, the way the cults of personality work out this game, you're fairly ignorable.

(I don't mean this in a mean way, but relationship dynamics means you, TD, and Froot Loop's opinions literally don't matter to the consensus)

[Natirasha]

So, looking back at the genesis of the daycop claim, I could see a bit of truthfulness to the fakeness to it, which is a point in Kat' favor. What bother me is that it was so pushed--something I contributed to, but I didn't read the thread so there's that--but, once people actually believed the daycop was real, it went places despite having clear evidence of the contrary. Hmm.

[Natirasha]

I will admit my analysis is flawed to the generation of the daycop claim.

[Natirasha]

muffin still makes sense as scum either way.

[Natirasha]

VoteCount 2.1

Brian Skies [5] - notscience, Bins, Cho, Salamence20, TiphaineDeath
zMuffinMan [2] - DeasVail, Natirasha

I mean one look at these wagons should say which one is more meritous.

Actually, TD's vote looks bad objectively.

[Natirasha]

VOTE: Salamance

Brian and muffin wagons are bad

Um, Desperado?

[Natirasha]

I mean, why take the bait?

[Natirasha]

I don't like that I have to pull this card, but, no, he really isn't, objectively.

[Natirasha]

Enlighten me nati, why is sala objectively not scummy?

Claiming traitor is exactly within his MO.

[Natirasha]

That doesn't make it not scummy, but luckily for him I am not allowed to detail why just now.

Sadly, it's more of a nulltell when he does something like that every game.

[Natirasha]

o

Why is the muffin wagon bad?

[Natirasha]

He's town.

I understand you're doing that thing I do sometimes, but, I mean, is there any reason for that?

[Natirasha]

notscience, sheep me.

[Natirasha]

Like, in case anyone is wondering, muffin is a dear friend of mine and I really hate leading lynches on my friends this early.

Unless I'm 100% their scum.

This is muffin's-been-caught routine, go look at any game where he's been caught and he gets super cheeky.

[Natirasha]

i would listen to nati tbh, what with his intimate knowledge of the differences between my town and scum play (that I myself do not possess and thus am unable to emulate the differences) and his proven track record of reading me correctly in games

It's true I can't read you!

But your lack of cheesiness and telling me no is telling me yes!

[Natirasha]

oh yes you know just all the aspects of my scum game and what id do here as scum I knew I was doomed

I mean, you tell all about your (hence discredited) tells on Skype all the time...

[Natirasha]

DV sold me. Sal is like an abusive spouse... I just keep going back to him. Desp is probably bussing!

I agree with this post a little!

[Natirasha]

Why is everyone tunneling that one quote?

[Natirasha]

So are we done all posting reads lists?

Can we lynch yet?

[Natirasha]

Guys, can we please lynch muffin already. I'm ready to take muffin's challenge if you guys need a proxy.

[Natirasha]

Here's the thing: muffin does not cowtow like this as town. He simply doesn't. He's being deliberately manipulative and not even subtle about it.

But all you psychos are getting distracted by the most blatant gambitter and posts from the beginning of the game. Jesus, pay attention.

[Natirasha]

DeasVail

, I really enjoyed this post. It was well-thought out and made sense to me, and I do think you're town (unless it turns out later on that the flipped town were generally insane and the flipped scum were the reasonable one).

However, I still like the idea of lynching Brian Skies today. My reasoning doesn't lie with that earlygame Empking commentary. It's not even related to Empking at all, whether that's for the better or for the worse. I think Brian Skies is scum just because of a mixture of his play in the late portion of Day 1, things that had to do with the SleepyKrew wagon, and gut reading.

Get your head out of your ass and don't let muffin go today.

If he doesn't die today, one of me and DV will die, and you all

will

forget him. Don't tell me you won't--I know how these things work.

We lynch muffin today. Brian Skies will still be there and the majority of you oafs will mislynch him tomorrow, probably.

But we're going to justice lynch first.

[Natirasha]

yes

also empking is town

sala could go either way
konowa is dumb or scum - both real possibilities
desp town?
katsuki confirmed town day cop
sleepykrew could be town, i suppose, his tone and play feels really off this game even though i know it's partially intentional
nacho scum via confirmed town day cop
aggravatedalgebra is town even though its reads are pretty bad
zmuffinman is just this dude
brian could be town, maybe? i haven't seen his scum game since cash cabd and this is reminding me a little of it but i can't really pinpoint why
cho town
dv town
empking could be town
bins innocent girl
redcoyote town probably
nati nati
froot loop probably scum
td town

Why is RC town though? He makes me waver in my path of righteousness

i think that's just a RC thing more than an alignment thing

if you look at it and think about it coming from RC, it looks more like a town entrance than a scum entrance. also hated in fakegod game

oh and i called empking town with his two very town-looking first posts and that was a pretty serious read and definitely how id interact with a scum buddy

also can't forget DV and his brilliant case against me. i would address each of his points but omg there's just so many of them i wouldnt even know where to begin

i really need to step up my scum game in the future so im not caught this easily

Cheesy interactions.

[Natirasha]

Yup!

[Natirasha]

I actually am coming around to Bins-scum.

I recommend you stop talking and start bussing, Bins.

[Natirasha]

You guy need to learn that Canadians make the best scumhunters.

You're right! DV is Canadian!

[Natirasha]

Katsuki, I would shoot you right now if I could.

You're excuses are shit, your votes are shit, stop being so fucking scummy!

[Natirasha]

Like, why are all you people trying to find reasons not to vote muffin so hard?!! AAAUAUGh

[Natirasha]

"Hey, if you don't wagon muffin today you'll never do it!"

Same for a brian wagon

which is why them as a scumteam is annoying as fuck

Guess what? I'm less prone to tunnels and may consider Brian at some point.

But seriously, brian's much more harmless, Muffin will straight get away in cold blood.

You know that.

[Natirasha]

I guess?

[Natirasha]

I'm just gonna say that with the way muffin was acting, I don't think you can blame his lynch.

[Natirasha]

Like, he was being so uncharacteristically muffin this game.

I hope he's okay!

[Natirasha]

No, it isn't and my comment was not really only this game.

I'll sheep you in a bit. DV?

[Natirasha]

Also I guess I may or may not have a neighborhood to evaluate in a minute?

[Natirasha]

Why would you vote for me?

You misparsed this statement.

I also am find with vig outting, actually.

[Natirasha]

ALSO CMON SALAMENCE I WANNA BE ANNOINTED

[Natirasha]

I dunno, man, I take a claim fast-and-dirty stance and you know this.

I know you want to mislynch me tomorrow, though.

[Natirasha]

This is all too much for me!

[Natirasha]

Salamence20

Desperado

Katsuki
notscience
Brian Skies
Cho
DeasVail
RedCoyote

Natirasha

Well, fuck!

[Natirasha]

Oh yeah RedCoyote is town too!

[Natirasha]

80%

[Natirasha]

Like do I betray Desperado for a wagon I don't believe in? Or do I sit her in peril?

[Natirasha]

Most likely no!

[Natirasha]

notscience DV v Brian who do you trust?

[Natirasha]

gaaah do i want to be manipulated

i hate this

i feel like notscience

[Natirasha]

Talk me through what you're thinking.

Well I feel like kinship with you and lynching that would feel terribad emotionally.

But I also feel bad about betraying Desperado because he's a pretty cool guy.

As to the wagons themselves, I guess both have merit. But muffin was still acting weird so I don't count that against anyone.

[Natirasha]

Nat quit being a baby.

W-w-waaaaaaah!

[Natirasha]

VOTE: Brian Skies

I expect answers tomorrow, DV.

[Natirasha]

DV, talk.

[Natirasha]

I'm Carpenter, VT.

Salamence-Neighborizer
Salamence20
Desperado-Red Knight, VT
Katsuki--
notscience-
DeasVail-Vig
RedCoyote-Hated
Natirasha-VT

If there is one thing I've noticed, well...notscience and Katsuki need to claim.

[Natirasha]

(Katsuki is scum so that's unlikely)

[Natirasha]

VOTE: Katsuki

and, yes, Desperado, I know I'm following notscience of all people. You can call me terrible later.

[Natirasha]

btw if you're hoping for an easy lynch I think you'll be surprised.

[Natirasha]

mafia vig makes no sense. He shot two of his partners in that scenario, which is durrr.

Sala makes some sort of sense. He claimed Beloved in the neighborhood last night.

[Natirasha]

He never said, but that was my extrapolation for better or worse.

I don't want to think about it.

[Natirasha]

Yeah I could see a shot on a partner, but not two.

[Natirasha]

Katsuki, why am I scum?

[Natirasha]

I feel we have a bit too much power revealed, but if RC is truthful, then, well, I guess lovers+hated is some sort of negative utility. Kat's role is pretty much vanilla too?

[Natirasha]

in hindsight i shouldv ejust fakeclaimed full doc to draw a kill but w.e

i think your pushes on muffin and bs were really forced.

You mean my 'vote' on Brian Skies. I think I made it clear I had no opinion on him and mostly was trusting DV more than Desperado there.

And my muffin vote was, well, he self-hammered. That should say something to muffin's mindstate. And the fact he's siteflaked since. No matter how much people want to paint that muffin was acting normal, it really was clear he wasn't.

[Natirasha]

you guys pushed a bullshit lynch on him and I can see why he was pissed

ok so whos scum now

He didn't even seem mad to die. Like, really. But I digress--Salamence and probably Desperado. Or you. I could even believe a three man scumteam with a beloved neighborizer+Negative utility lovers/hated.

[Natirasha]

I was just thinking dont really have the time to post right now, but last game scum had a rolecop and jailkeeper, vs much less town power. My thought right now is that the last scum role is some sort of tarlindar-type role. I'll run analysis and comparisons later but one thought that occurred to me is that if say sala is scum, it's very possible he has his day ability, some sort of night ability and/or some sort of passive.

You mean like a mafia beloved princess neighborizer?

[Natirasha]

I will likely move my vote to Sala soon. Want RC and DV to input.

AN=nd it's nothing personal, Desp!

[Natirasha]

Because a living scum member is better than a nonliving one?

[Natirasha]

Actually, another question:

Why am I not self-hammering right now? Hmmmmmmmmm

Because you're the last scum member.

[Natirasha]

I don't feel good about a Desperado lynch and I don't know why!

[Natirasha]

You felt good about a muffin lynch and we know how that went.

Shut up, scum!

[Natirasha]

Not me anymore, Desp?

[Natirasha]

Can't DV shoot Desp if we want tonight?

[Natirasha]

VOTE: Salamence

[Natirasha]

Interestingly, RC's been at L-1 for a while now and no hammer.

[Natirasha]

...

[Natirasha]

I'd vote Kat over Desp.

Seriously, just shoot Desp.

[Natirasha]

VOTE: RedCoyote

I have a sinking suspicion he won't die from this.

[Natirasha]

Yes, I did just bet it all.

[Natirasha]

Coyote, I do not particularly expect you to flip

at all

scum.

[Natirasha]

'But why?'

Well, this felt right.

[Natirasha]

(notscience is going to vote me out of the gate tomorrow anyway for the loss)

[Natirasha]

Whatever, I don't know if we can still win, but I think it's Desp and Kat.

I believe this and I feel your lynch, if it goes through, will get DV to kill Desp.

If it's four man scumteam, there is no permutation where Desperado isn't on it.

[Natirasha]

If anyone but Salamence was this stupid fucking Beloved Neighborizer this game would be easy.

[Natirasha]

Why are you certain that there are two scum remaining, Nati?

I'm not, and I was hoping that subtext would come across in my posts.

[Natirasha]

Thanks Nati, you prevented yourself from winning.

Are you calling me scum?

[Natirasha]

Like, that comment doesn't make sense except for being super-predatory.

[Natirasha]

I'm slightly annoyed that I was completely ignored when it came to RC, and I still think it's Katsuki and Desp. I'll have to go over this properly first of course, but that's where my head is at.

I listened to you! My hammer was for a few different reasons, really.

[Natirasha]

I really am trying to see you as town, Kat, but you know as well as I that DV is not scum.

[Natirasha]

I mean, I guess I can't particularly feel bad about getting lynched since I've pretty much single-handedly led the town to this point, but I still don't see how you could think I'm scum given everything.

[Natirasha]

Even Notty thinks DV is more likely to be scum than Desp.

Like, it's shit like this that really makes me question your alignment.

DeasVail, cure my doubts!

[Natirasha]

Q: Why was Cho killed?

A: Desperado is scum.

Also the vote counts make a lot of sense if Desperado is scum.

[Natirasha]

Like DV, after your next post, I'm pulling the trigger on your vote so pick a target and let's roll. If this game comes down to Salamence holding the swing vote, so be it.

[Natirasha]

I will post more tonight. Sorry

I am not scum though because what kind of scum kills two scumbuddies?

I've always been a proponent of the 'vig a partner' plan if it's possible, but two partners is...too much.

[Natirasha]

Yes, Katsuki, you've seen through my glorious plan.

The only reason I'm not voting you is because Desp is also dragging me towards him.

[Natirasha]

Gaaaah I hate this.

[Natirasha]

I really really want to vote Desperado, but that Salamence vote....

[Natirasha]

Nope, Desperado

VOTE: Desperado

[Natirasha]

Like DV, after your next post, I'm pulling the trigger on your vote so pick a target and let's roll. If this game comes down to Salamence holding the swing vote, so be it.

I said I was going to vote after DV's post.

[Natirasha]

It happens. I have the same problem.