You could be anyone II - Game Over

[Pine]

I also have no intention of reading this thread's archive

Anyone willing to volunteer summaries and reads? Links to cases and reads that were made shortly before lynch are acceptable

[Pine]

I never read the backlog when replacing in unless there's fewer than 10-15 pages. I feel a fresh perspective is more valuable to Town than someone reading and falling into the same thought patterns as everyone else.

[Pine]

VOTE: HI

Should have happened yesterday, will be happening today.

Why's that?

[Pine]

Cool, I keep that in mind. Have a one (1) Townpoint for readiness to explain your reasoning in a succinct and clear manner

[Pine]

Gotta say, as much as the explanations from TD and Rach Marie sound good, I'm not ready to treat this as a fait accompli yet.

Give me other stuff. What else happened of consequence?

[Pine]

Why not replace out?

[Pine]

Wait, you're a non-countered FBI Agent claim?

No. Get off this wagon. If the game progresses a bunch of days without the SK making a move on that claim, then MAYBE we can revisit lynching HI. If I were the SK, though, I'd kill him as soon as I thought he might not be getting Doc protection. Lynching him is a waste of our time

This is not a Micro game. This one can wait.

[Pine]

no one is going to CC a FBI claim unless there is an FBI agent in this setup and that's not him. So the chance of him being CCed are small wich is why FBI claims are a good fake claim. Its like the new miller claim.

+

he's giving up wich looks sorta like a scum gambit to stay alive.

FBI Agent is a terrible claim. It's gambling that there's a SK in the setup (if there isn't one, they're screwed) and making themselves a huge target if there is one. So either we see no evidence of SK and lynch him later or the SK takes him out for not wanting to risk a lucky investigation. And if he is telling the truth, he's our best shot at completely eliminating one of the biggest threats to Town. Besides, what

incentive

does scum have to make that specific fakeclaim? A Mafia member about to be lynched might throw out Cop in order to fish for a real-Cop counterclaim or reaction slip, but they've got no incentive to help the SK in that way. The opposite, in fact, as a good SK should start by hunting the Mafia down to a manageable number. A SK might fakeclaim that, but it's a big gamble, as there'd be no reason for a real FBI Agent to say "COUNTERCLAIM MY JOB IS DONE HERE."

There was one kill last night when I expected three, mr. "FBI agent" can go spin.

There are lots of reasons why there may have been reduced kills in a game this large. Docs, jail keepers, poisoners, bulletproof, traitor, and roleblockers all spring immediately to mind

One night phase does not make a pattern that is worth discarding a Cop-equivalent claim that hasn't been countered

So can I ask why the hell would scum claim FBI Agent?
Like, that's even worse fakeclaim than fakeclaiming miller.

Exactly. Though to play Devil's advocate, I rode a Miller fakeclaim to a flawless scum win in Jason's DC universe game. That game was not only multiball, it also had a SK

and

a Vig

and

a Supersaint. The notion that a game this big has only one killing faction is questionable

TLDR:

The case on HI sounds good, but his claim sounds better. FBI Agent is a near-suicidal fakeclaim for scum. If a few days go by and we see a pattern of one-kill nights, I'll lead the lynch on him myself

[Pine]

I get the issue about there being unlikely to be only one killing faction but we have no idea why there were fewer deaths than expected. The evidence points to Hostile Intent's claim being fake.

No

[Pine]

What I'm saying is that if we get a second one-kill night, sure, there's some evidence. A third one-kill, and it's probable there's no SK. Four in a row would be close to proof. If we are uniball here, this game is likely to be in the neighborhood of 10 days long, with half a dozen or more scum. There's no rush. Let him stay and give us association slips for now

[Pine]

I get the issue about there being unlikely to be only one killing faction but

we

have no idea why there were fewer deaths than expected. The evidence points to Hostile Intent's claim being fake.

whos this we crap your spweing? do you have buddies?

VOTE: StrangerCoug

has anyone speced yet about BP?

This is a hugely bullshit allegation. 'We' was very obvious the collective. Besides, any given scumteam would be just as much in the dark as Town.

Vote: I have no creativity

Huzzah! I'm no longer a burden on society!

[Pine]

@StrangerCoug - Did my explanation make sense? You asked for one then ignored it

[Pine]

Do you have any idea why there are fewer kills than expected, either?

I'm think I could take a pretty good guess at why.

And it doesnt involve there only being one killing faction.

And this HI wagon is as bad as it was yesterday.

Wut

[Pine]

Do you have any idea why there are fewer kills than expected, either?

I'm think I could take a pretty good guess at why.

And it doesnt involve there only being one killing faction.

And this HI wagon is as bad as it was yesterday.

Wut

Wut

Wut your heavy-handed soft claim there

Wut, Wut?

If you have to guess, you don't know, which was the entire point of my original post. I also do not currently believe it is uniball and view your strong multiball push as a towntell.

No, but I could make a pretty good guess I think.

If you dont think its uniball then why are you pushing HI?

[Pine]

Quote fail.

What the hell is that softclaim? I kind of want you to shut the fuck up and not reveal information to scum that they don't need, but also have no idea what you're getting at

[Pine]

Because I have no idea why he would make that comment. I don't think it's pro-Town to suggest that he's responsible for stopping a kill, as he's either outing a PR we'll need or trying to take credit for cheap Townpoints. I'm not sure where he's going with the statement or how to react to it

[Pine]

Which would be shooting us all in the foot if he's Town, or his team if he's scum. Like I said, I'm not sure how to react to that statement, it seems antiwincon

Unless he's a PGO trying to draw a scum kill? But he's just as likely to draw a town action

[Pine]

How much of yesterday did you read Pine?

None. I have no plan to - my philosophy is that a replacement's job is to look at things with new eyes, not through the lens of what came before. The only things that matter from D1 are the things you can't take back or change your mind about, like claims

Pretty sure I already said this

[Pine]

Seriously, you are not using your brain. You're just looking for the easiest lynch you can.

wouldnt the easiest lynch i can get be the sk one that people are pushing right now?

IHNC is pretty blatantly going after the low-hanging fruit instead of doing productive scumhunting. Even if we hit scum three days running, we've still got a task ahead of us, so focusing on HI to the exclusion of all else is pretty bad. Ignoring mafia hunting in favor of SK-hunting smacks very strongly of mafiascum

[Pine]

A little bit V/LA until Tuesday morning. Probably should have taken V/LA for the whole weekend, hence my absence

[Pine]

Girls, you're both pretty.

The longer this goes on, the more it looks Town vs Town

Just skimming while at work, I come off of V/LA tomorrow

[Pine]

My limited access turned into no access unexpectedly, then went much longer than anticipated. I'm back online and will be trying to get current over the next 24 hours. Please be patient, I have several fast-moving games to catch up to.

Note to self: 2185

[Pine]

Okay, I'm caught up everywhere else. Been putting this off because I have hundreds of posts to sift through. This is my next priority

[Pine]

Ohhhhhkay

At this point, I should probably just replace out, as I've been fucking useless. I'm having an incredibly hard time getting into this game, in part because of how busy I am (I work 50-80 hours a week on an ambulance, plus a part time gig for Barnes and Noble) and in part because there's a huge "don't give a shit yet" curve to overcome, and in part because I like other games here a lot more than this one.

That said, I hate replacing out, and don't want to

From what I've read of D2, Titus seems like a really obvious lynch. I'd like her to explain herself though, as I'm not sure I buy scum making such a big blunder

The HI lynch was just really, really bad. At worst, you leash a suspected Investigator fakeclaimer and force them to spit out and commit to reads. SK is almost definitely on that lynch, and I'd be willing to bet there's several scum there, too. Probably not in the first few or last few, but in the body of the wagon

Ummm, not much to say. I'm going to start over again, and try to keep up from day start here, while skimming D1 and D2.

Don't trust myself to vote right now

[Pine]

If you've posted and not voted Titus, I want you to straight up explain, in detail, why you aren't voting Titus.

Nope nope nope

Don't care about Titus right now

Vote bullying and implied blackmail is a HUGE scumtell for me

Vote: kthxbye

[Pine]

You know what else you're doin that I don't like?

Rushing

If it's such a lock, what's the hurry? At worst you get nothing. At best, associative tells on her buddies while she's flailing

I'm thinking a Titus scumflip leads back to kthxbye. This could very easily be bandaid-ripping powerbussing

[Pine]

Look how no one has even publically asked or suggested who my partners are.

One of your partners was IaI.

I think I already suggested TD as another.

So.....

*eyeroll* And you would be eliminating me as the sk because?

This. It leaped out at me as well

The rush to hyperlynch Titus reeks of groupscum. Not sure whether it's scum looking for an easy PR mislynch, scum looking for an SK lynch, or scumbussing to get a short, unproductive day

Either way, I don't like it

[Pine]

TL;DR: Regardless of Titus's flip, quicklynching her is in scum's favor. I'm not inclined to oblige

[Pine]

You're probably some flavor of scum, so no

I just don't suck at this game, so I am disinclined to let you off the hook with a quick lynch

[Pine]

Prodded

Ugh, I'm finding this game incredibly hard to give a shit about. Too many people with too many annoying opinions, personality conflicts, and cases of posting diarrhea.

I'm mostly caught up, but quite frankly don't have much of a clue. I should do my own analysis of the three flipped scum in relation to other people. I might get to that later today.

Mollie sounds like she's the SK, but it's usually better to leash them at this point. Whoever the SK is, Mollie or not, they're clearly scumhunting, and doing so pretty effectively. No opinion on vezokpiraka, but IAI was scum and IHNC was one of the few people I had a real read on. Shit, they might even be a Vig. I should go look up who first suggested Mollie as SK. Maybe the scumteam shot at her and assumed bulletproof

House looks very Town. No way a scumbuddy would go that far out onto a limb for Titus. That was a ship taking on water, and being brought down with that ship when you're already down IAI is just not worth the risk, just for the WIFOM. Right now, he's the only person I trust...as Town, not his reads. His reads clearly suck. The House wagon almost definitely contains scum. He's an easy mislynch now

I think I'm going to treat this game as if I replaced in nowish. I hate cluttered games, no idea what possessed me to jump into an early-on Large

[Pine]

That suggests {StrangerCoug, RachMarie} contains scum. Mollie's in her own category right now. She's either Vig playing recklessly, SK, or otherwise playing very fast and loose. I don't see groupscum under siege piling onto House

PE: Eh, I get Townish vibes from you, Garmr. Maybe whoever latched onto and promoted the idea is our scum there

[Pine]

It's also town interest to lynch sk since we don't win with it. Mollie is obvious sk people who are saying we can leash the sk whats the point as we only have like 1 or 2 scum left and a fuck load of townies.

You completely ignored the part of my post where I said that mafia has to waste time taking care of the SK. All an SK-lynch does right now is just vastly remove the pressure on scum. It makes no sense to lynch the SK. At all.

This.

We know who the SK (or Vig, why does no one ever acknowledge this possibility?) probably is. We can get rid her later if she stops being useful

Right now, scum have lost three members in rapid fire. They're likely reeling, off balance. The momentum is against them. They're far more likely to make mistakes and take risks right now. Hunting the SK is pro-scum, and gives them an unnecessary reprieve

[Pine]

It's also town interest to lynch sk since we don't win with it. Mollie is obvious sk people who are saying we can leash the sk whats the point as we only have like 1 or 2 scum left and a fuck load of townies.

You completely ignored the part of my post where I said that mafia has to waste time taking care of the SK. All an SK-lynch does right now is just vastly remove the pressure on scum. It makes no sense to lynch the SK. At all.

This.

We know who the SK (or Vig, why does no one ever acknowledge this possibility?) probably is. We can get rid her later if she stops being useful

Right now, scum have lost three members in rapid fire. They're likely reeling, off balance. The momentum is against them. They're far more likely to make mistakes and take risks right now. Hunting the SK is pro-scum, and gives them an unnecessary reprieve

Your ignoring the fbi agent flip right?

Actually, yeah. I was completely forgetting that. Okay, so not Vig. It's still in SK's interest to scumhunt, execute suspects, and generally be as useful and Townish as possible

Kind of curious why Mollie's giving me a hard time when I'm saying that killing her is stupid

[Pine]

Not lynching House

He is most clearly Town player here. Scum just doesn't hard defend a sinking ship like that

[Pine]

Not lynching House

He is most clearly Town player here. Scum just doesn't hard defend a sinking ship like that

Not caught Titus-scum, I take it?

Don't understand this post. My premise is that I don't find it plausible that House!scum would defend Titus!scum so vigorously when Titus was so very screwed

[Pine]

That is your prerogative, but it doesn't make the quoted post make any more sense

[Pine]

I think Ankamius is scum. I might have been wrong about Mom. kind of like I have been on everyone else.

Show your work.

Common Core MafiaScum?

And use the number line

[Pine]

3595 is scumposting.

Yeah, it's looking a lot like scum going for the easy lynch, bonus points if it eliminates the SK

I could be happy with a Fish lynch

[Pine]

Follow the cop

Vote: Nero

[Pine]

Kind of want d3x tomorrow for 3727. Questioning motives of Cop in this situation is sketchy

[Pine]

Oh really, Pine? We've had 2 FakeClaims in this game and after getting a Scum result, it took 7 full pages and

me

asking Nero about something before he Voted him or even mentioned him. I'd say that at least demands a little questioning into the Claimed Cop's motives.

Did you have a problem with the fact that I questioned Titus's motivations when she Claimed a Track on HI on Day2?

I have a problem with anyone questioning a claimed investigator's motives (caveat: LYLO is different). They're either telling the truth for a scum lynch, or they're lying and they die next. At this stage of the game, with 3 scum down, fake claiming would be worthy. PV isn't a godawful bad player, fake claiming a guilty is not plausible scumplay.

So he's either Town or he's going to get hyperlynched for lying. Either way, I don't see a pro-Town reason for interrogating his motives

Lol

Also Pine I asked u something. Hi btw.

Sup Kise. What'd you ask me?

[Pine]

Oh really, Pine? We've had 2 FakeClaims in this game and after getting a Scum result, it took 7 full pages and

me

asking Nero about something before he Voted him or even mentioned him. I'd say that at least demands a little questioning into the Claimed Cop's motives.

Did you have a problem with the fact that I questioned Titus's motivations when she Claimed a Track on HI on Day2?

Yeah, but this post just emphasizes my point. You're trying to discredit the Cop, and I'm suspicious as to why. 3727 is the clue, quoted is the evidence

[Pine]

Dead Players

FFAE00 FFED00 was John Cena, Vanilla Town lynched day 1

vezokpiraka was Robbie Williams, Vanilla Town executed Night 1

Hostile Intent was Andy Murray, FBI Agent lynched day 2

DrCirno was Charlie Sheen, Vanilla Town killed night 2

I am Innocent was Tom Cruise, Mafia goon executed night 2

Titus was Kelly Brook, Mafia Goon lynched day 3

I Have No Creativity was Seann William Scott, vanilla town executed night 3

TSO was Hitler, Town Bomb, killed night 3

Nero Cain was Aryton Senna, Mafia Tailor lynched day 4

Josh_B was Mila Kunis, Vanilla town executed night 4

lets regroup this.

lynched:

FFAE00 FFED00 was John Cena, Vanilla Town lynched day 1

- based off of for some reason.

Hostile Intent was Andy Murray, FBI Agent lynched day 2

- cos titus claimed tracker result on him.

Titus was Kelly Brook, Mafia Goon lynched day 3

- cos tracker result was a lie.

Nero Cain was Aryton Senna, Mafia Tailor lynched day 4

- guilty.

those who were executed:

vezokpiraka was Robbie Williams, Vanilla Town executed Night 1

I am Innocent was Tom Cruise, Mafia goon executed night 2

I Have No Creativity was Seann William Scott, vanilla town executed night 3

Josh_B was Mila Kunis, Vanilla town executed night 4

[/area]

those who were killed:

DrCirno was Charlie Sheen, Vanilla Town killed night 2

those who were blown to bits:

TSO was Hitler, Town Bomb, killed night 3

Aunt Jemina was Jesus, Mafia Encryptor, blown to bits Night 3

there is a possibility that there is no sk

and it was a red herring to the game that is quite the fad. I think aj was sent to do the nk and that is why she was blown up and that IaI might have said, "JUST FUCKING GAMBIT ME". cos the executioners have a heavier roster for nks than anything else in the game.

to me this points to house.

VOTE: house

This post practically screams mollies sk. Lets look at the facts titus believed 100% that there was a sk otherwise she wouldn't of done that fake tracker claim. Mafia seemed to be frantically looking for a sk lynch. Executed seems to be the sk word.

Also I think its time to lynch mollie aka the sk as I believe the mafia are all dead. There is two reasons why I believe this.

1.There was no extra night kill tonight and it would be very important to get some kills for mafia and I don't see mafia shooting josh b.

2.Scum were using there power roles to shoot. Also if there were 5 mafia then mafia would want to keep there encryptor alive and using a tailor would be out the question. This makes me believe it's 4 scum and a sk.

It's time for mollie to go.

VOTE: mollie

I concur on all points. SK might be our only scum left. Mollie is most likely to be SK

[Pine]

Vote: Mollie

Derp

[Pine]

If there's a mafia member left, then they're probably alone. That means they're an ad hoc SK, but without Cop immunity or night kill immunity, and with associative tells/PoE against them.

SK is a larger threat to Town now

[Pine]

I read them, Mollie. You're pushing the notion that there's no SK, when there's clearly two killing factions. That is not a reasonable logical leap. We can argue about whether four Mafia is enough to be balanced, but we saw one fewer kill last night. My assumption is that Mafia hit Doc or Bulletproof N1, and were eliminated with NC.

With an FBI Agent, would you like to change your tune, maybe claim Vig?

[Pine]

I read them, Mollie. You're pushing the notion that there's no SK, when there's clearly two killing factions. That is not a reasonable logical leap. We can argue about whether four Mafia is enough to be balanced, but we saw one fewer kill last night. My assumption is that Mafia hit Doc or Bulletproof N1, and were eliminated with NC.

With an FBI Agent, would you like to change your tune, maybe claim Vig?

if you read them and there IS an sk then they only made 1 nk. aj was blown up by the town bomb variant.

it is a fantastic logical leap to make cos if there is a 1 shot vig no1 in their right mind is going to claim it. it is however illogical to assume that just cos we have a fbi agent we have a sk. this leap makes you either a VI of garmr levels or flat inexperienced despite your join date cos mods will put in superfluous roles to keep the game from being broken all the time. I am not saying, "OMG THERE IS NO CHANCE FOR A SK EVER ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!" what I am saying is that town shld not

assume

there is and lynch players based off that assumption. if you can't grasp this very basic concept then you are a fucking moron.

after I flip town go back and look at how you basically supported a 23 yr old misogynist who watches red socket porn or the fuck it is you call it (sickest shit I have ever heard of and shows extreme violence against women) and you are only giving him masturbatory material for the next year. I don't give a shit about being lynched the game stopped being fun for me ages ago its just that it pisses me off how people will help him serve his personal petty vendetta. I don't even take it personally i am pretty sure all women who do not return his affections are bitches in his eyes. first he said I was scum but with the IaI flip that obviously couldn't work, then I had to be sk, then it was he didn't even care WHAT I was he just wanted me lynched and you...are sheeping him. he has been solidly going after me since d2 and when he wasn't going after me he was going after titus.

and you are sheeping him.

Bomb is a reactive role, similar to PGO. It only goes off when shot at. The only way an encrypt or even CAN target someone is with a kill. Given that, the SK kill flavor is clearly "executed." Try again

The rest of this post...what the fuck drugs are you on, crazy person?

[Pine]

I don't care to report it. I want it dead. There's a good chance that lynching SK ends the game with a massive Town win

[Pine]

There's four. IAI, Titus, Aunt Jemima, Nero

[Pine]

SK is scum, so yeah

Seriously, incontrovertible evidence is this:

1) Bomb is a standard role. It detonates when night killed
2) Encryptor is a standard role. It can only kill using its factional kill
3) An "executed" kill occurred on the night of detonation

Therefore

Mafia's kill N3 was AJ killing TSO. This means that "executed" was non mafia

4) An FBI Agent was present

Therefore

"Executed" is the SK kill

Seriously, no one else needed this spelled out. It's just that obvious

[Pine]

"Executed" is the SK kill

Seriously, no one else needed this spelled out. It's just that obvious

I agree. How can anyon-

We know who the SK (or Vig, why does no one ever acknowledge this possibility?) probably is. We can get rid her later if she stops being useful

Your ignoring the fbi agent flip right?

Actually, yeah. I was completely forgetting that. Okay, so not Vig. It's still in SK's interest to scumhunt, execute suspects, and generally be as useful and Townish as possible

Kind of curious why Mollie's giving me a hard time when I'm saying that killing her is stupid

Oh....

Wut?

I said it was foolish to SK hunt when the mafia team is at large. They could very well be eliminated or down to one member. In either case, SK is the bigger threat to Town

[Pine]

Dude, that quote was from day four. Then, we were mafia hunting. Now we're SK hunting

Btw, at not one point have I said "I think Mollie's innocent." Even when I was irritated and saying SK hunting was imprudent, I was reasonably sure Mollie was third party scum

Now, the SK has outlived its usefulness, and no longer needs to be leashed

[Pine]

VOTE: pine

[Pine]

@ pine

you never explained how the executioner nks cld all come from 1 sk while scum only managed to get in 2 nks. cos you totally went with flavour in your "analysis".

like plz explain that leap of logic to me.

Oh for fucks sake. There's lots of things that can stop a kill. Bulletproof, doctor, jailkeeper, roleblocker, any number of other more exotic roles

Or are you suggesting that the executioner is the mafia kill flavor, and they killed their own guy?

Stop being a moron

[Pine]

kise, pine is voting for me

but says he is not advocating me being killed.

eta: oh and more sk wifom.

I told you guys he should have been sacrificed.

In the back of my head, he's a big possibility for scum, but not the biggest possibility. Anyone defending Titus just looks crooked to me. I may get him today or later.

PV where the fuck???

That's the second time you've asserted that I was defending Titus. It's not true. I advocated hearing her out before making a decision, rather than leaping to judgment

Don't misrep me. It really, really annoys

[Pine]

Mod, please prod Peregrine V

[Pine]

He hasn't posted in days.

Mod, please prod PV

[Pine]

Well, the presence of an FBI Agent suggests that the SK is immune to Cop

PV, can you restate the case on TD?

[Pine]

Was asking for a rephrase and summary, rather than an archive dive. Thanks

[Pine]

@Mod PV is voting TD

Mod note - Fixed, sorry.

[Pine]

I expressed curious skepticism, not defense. You are incorrectly conflating the two

[Pine]

First off,many answer I would give is WIFOM, and I don't appreciate the damned-if-you-do-or-don't position that forces on me. Second, it's not relevant anymore. Third, I was

skeptical

, not

confident

as I am now. Fourth, if after being wrong once I were to throw up my hands and assume that every other deduction I made couldn't possibly be right, I wouldn't be playing Mafia. Fifth, the "optimal lynch" is not House, it's lynching the Serial Killer, who has outlived her usefulness and become more dangerous than any mafia remnant we might be dealing with. Sixth, go fuck yourself

[Pine]

Sixth, go fuck yourself

I'd prefer to do that first actually. It's blue ball season.

Yeah obviously I'm trying to figure you out, but I didn't set you up in a damned-if-do/don't situation. Let's cut the creeping hostility out because it's not making sense to come at me like that.

The question is still relevant because you've been slamming your foot on the brake pads 2 phases in a row, and loudly rebelling the way you are is a hindrance. You've either not been voting or have been on suboptimal wagons that weren't going anywhere. At one point, you posted that you were super busy with work and contemplating replacing out. That told me a lot, so guess what? I'm trying to assist you, and right now my way assisting you is slowly getting you to see that your stubborn way isn't working.

Non-town are typically 1/4 of the player list at the least, which means 5 or 6 mafia is sensible, even accounting for an SK. Even if mollie truly is the SK, her having a kill has not lived out its usefulness.

I have a theory that, if there weren't any town roles (or a bulletproof SK) preventing scum from killing last night, they may have chosen to forgo the kill to give the appearance that only the SK is a threat. This would supposedly put momentum towards lynching mollie, but others have already said that there's no way the scum team is 2 goons, a tailor and encryptor.

You make some fair points, but you're ignoring the centerpiece of my argument.

A bulletproof, investigation-immune Serial Killer shooting into a crowd that is almost pure Townie is far more dangerous than a greatly-reduced scum team that is NOT bulletproof, NOT investigation-immune, and is being hunted by a (likely) Doc-protected Cop

Eliminating the Serial Killer now doubles the number of days we have to let that Cop work and eliminate the Mafia remnants, if any

[Pine]

Beats me

[Pine]

It's kind of extremely important to your argument that the SK isn't gunning for mafia anymore in order for it to really work.

Untrue. Given that SK was NOT investigation-immune (FBI presence) they are likely bulletproof. A severely diminished mafia is almost no threat to her. In fact, keeping two kills alive is actually in her favor, because it keeps Town off of her back and halves the number of days she has to survive

You'll notice I'm using feminine pronouns. Mollie's reaction to a small wagon on her is exactly how I'd expect a SK to react. Note also that she's doing practically no scumhunting

pine jumped on me too right off the bat. he has no case except "garmr says so".

False.

There is wide acknowledgement that you are the most likely candidate for SK. I believe that case was first pushed by some of our flipped scum, who have far more focused SK-hunting motives than we do. Generally speaking, if flipped scum are going after someone hard, they have a suspicion of SK

Killing the SK is healthy for Town right now. Yes, the SK

might

hit another Mafia member, but they're far more likely to shoot several Townies instead. Each of those Townies that they fail to execute is another day purchased for the Cop and for standard scumhunting

The healthiest thing for Town to do is eliminate Mollie

[Pine]

D3x, the only questions you asked me were why I didn't support the Titus lynch. I'm getting really tired of stating over and over that I didn't actually oppose it, I just don't like quicklynching people without hearing them out. I was skeptical that scum would do something so blatantly stupid as to fakeclaim that early in the game, and I was wrong. End of fucking story

[Pine]

I answered them repeatedly, by the way, so I don't appreciate the opportunistic way you misrepped your way into voting me

[Pine]

Too busy trying to defend myself against morons and get it through some thick skulls that SK is a bigger threat than mafia remnant. I'll get there

You're aware that the detailed analysis you saw in NY177 isn't my usual, right? That game was really, really exceptional for my Towngame.

[Pine]

I'm sorry, but making a single post expressing skepticism that she'd do something that stupid, and asking her to explain herself is neither soft defending nor derailing. That's why it's misrepresentation - you're grossly exaggerating what I did and did not say

3983 makes some bullshit statements, it doesn't ask questions. As for being an apologist (which is how you spell that word,) I haven't been. You're basing your whole case on one comment, and making it out to be something much larger than it was

As for dropping my push against you, so what? Are you really so self-concerned that you're going to hunt down anyone who even looks at you funny? I dropped my efforts on you and others because I feel the best thing I can do to help Town is advocate the sensible elimination of the SK.

And wait a damn minute - who questioned the cop today? If anyone did, I missed it, and they need to be put on a platter next to you. Cop with a guilty that hasn't been countered...honestly. You'd have to be a moron (like you) to bother.

I have already conceded that it is likely that the mafia are not wholly eliminated, as the setup isn't balanced. I believe this is the fourth or fifth time I've mentioned it, however, that a bulletproof, investigation-immune SK is far more dangerous than you and any other buddies you might have

[Pine]

Remind me who's in the hood?

[Pine]

Yeah...

Except that it seems suicidal for TD to have actually killed D3x after claiming doc in the hood and knowing that there was already suspicion on him.

Don't buy this. It's WIFOM

Besides, scum that knows they're likely to go down is MORE likely to do obviously scummy stuff, not less. Look at Titus before she got lynched

[Pine]

Here's the deal. If I'm scum-TD, I absolutely recruit d3x into the hood. He was very much town read by all. Also, since d3x was town reading him, it makes it even more convenient to bring him in to see where he's thinking and if he'll reveal a PR.

Oh shit, d3x, reveals the very thing group scum have been looking for since PV was outed to kill Titus...the doc. Now doc is dead.

No, TD is absolutely scum. Yeah, it is possible that it's just an unhealthy (for TD) coincidence that d3x was brought into the hood, but d3x outing himself as the doc and then dying immediately after points MORE to TD being scum than town. You say scum-TD wouldn't be so bold to invite d3x into hood, find out that he's the doc, and then off him, I say it's the complete opposite. Scum-TD has ZERO choice to keep d3x alive after finding out that he's doc since there are likely 2 scum left and if PV is protected long enough, they'd be caught.

Finding and killing doc was scum number 1 priority and there was zero way d3x was staying alive if scum was in the hood and he revealed himself as doc.

After PV claims his investigation, I fully expect TD to be lynched THIS FUCKING DAY.

Oh, and for the record, if I was sk or scum, I'd have off'ed dex N1 or N2. He knows me way too well and is, I think, the only person in this game to play with me as an SK. As scum, well, I'd off him for similar reasons (unless I had a way to convince him I'm town like neighborizer...which I've done before).

The rest of this post doesn't bother me nearly as much as the self-meta and its inherent WIFOM.

The revelation that d3x protected Mollie gives me pause. The largest part of my supposition of SK!Mollie was the notion that scum was pushing her because they shot at her N1 and got bulletproof. Over the night I did some archive diving and found that none of our flipped scum went after her, at least not right away. Garmr started the push, and I've got a pretty solid Townvibe from him

Killing the SK still remains the mathematically most sound plan, but I'm not sure who it is anymore. If you do the math, we're headed for endgame as soon as D8 or D9. As we can't count on crosskills to remove SK, they've gotta be lynched

I'm a little bit back to the drawing board. I'm going to do some serious ISOing and analysis of flipped scum

[Pine]

There was a Tailor, PV

[Pine]

There was a Tailor, PV

So the contention would be Nero targetted StrangerCoug night1 giving me a false innocent?

It's not likely, but plausible. Just mentioned because you seemed to rule out the possibility. This only goes for SC, though, because he's the only living innocent you got before the Tailor died, and after Nero Cain was lynched, further innocents are probably accurate. It's highly unlikely that the scumteam would have both a Tailor and a Godfather

PE: Tailor != Framer.

[Pine]

Umm, no

Guilty on me is NOT actually possible. Peregrine V, I resent this gambit, you're going to get me killed for no good reason

[Pine]

I can empathize with reaction testing on your last day if you got an inno, but getting me quicklynched will get you a mislynch and deny Town your actual result

[Pine]

Friday activity always sucks.

Anyways, last night was a guilty on Pine.

Vote: Pine

UNVOTE: TiphaineDeath
VOTE: Pine

Umm, no

Guilty on me is NOT actually possible. Peregrine V, I resent this gambit, you're going to get me killed for no good reason

...Is this post even worth my time and consideration? Why would a confirmed cop gambit!?

With the Doc dead this is obviously his last day. He's reaction gambiting to pull an extra effective investigation. If he had a guilty he wouldn't have strung it out like this, looking for someone to be nervous. He'd just have come out with it

Seriously, this is a bad move. PV, please respond.

Guys, don't hammer until he responds. We can NOT afford this

[Pine]

Hmm. Kise might be scum after all. Mostly a gut feeling. There's no reason to put me back to L-1 unless he's hoping someone will quick hammer to deny Peregrine V's actual result

[Pine]

Friday activity always sucks.

Anyways, last night was a guilty on Pine.

Vote: Pine

UNVOTE: TiphaineDeath
VOTE: Pine

Umm, no

Guilty on me is NOT actually possible. Peregrine V, I resent this gambit, you're going to get me killed for no good reason

...Is this post even worth my time and consideration? Why would a confirmed cop gambit!?

With the Doc dead this is obviously his last day. He's reaction gambiting to pull an extra effective investigation. If he had a guilty he wouldn't have strung it out like this, looking for someone to be nervous. He'd just have come out with it

Seriously, this is a bad move. PV, please respond.

Guys, don't hammer until he responds. We can NOT afford this

StrangerCoug I already answered your question. Faking a guilty after Doc death is a good ploy, it gets a solid reaction, but it's just really dangerous at this stage. We have too many people who are bloodthirsty for an anyone-but-me lynch, a real investigation that can be lost, and a Serial Killer who is, mathematically, about two mislynches from an easy win.

[Pine]

I'm not a Miller. I'd have claimed it in my first post, like a non-moron

Really, really suspicious of StrangerCoug's attempts to cast PeregrineV as scum bussing. The potential benefits of bussing versus the risk of being counterclaimed while exposing multiple of your buddies and confirming innocents is just SO anti-wincon as a scum tactic...I have to wonder why SC would go so far out on that limb at this stage

[Pine]

The possibility certainly exists that you are being bussed and that PV's days are numbered, but I'm still not seeing how the benefits of gambiting outweigh the risks. If you flip town, then so long as you're not miller, then either PeregrineV is exposed as scum or scum can use your mislynch as a launching board to get him mislynched as well.

This is what I was referring to. Calling his credentials into question at this point is ridiculous, and looks like you're aiming for a post-quicklynch frameup

[Pine]

Maybe you draw counterattacks because the things you're saying are scummy, dick. You're the common denominator

How do you keep denying that the second half of that quote outright suggests that PV might be scum if I'm Town? That's such an absurdly undermining suggestion, I have difficulty seeing it as anything other than coming from a scum mindset. I mean, for fucks sake,I'm the only one with reason to think he's lying, but he's so obvTown it has to be a gambit rather than a scum move

[Pine]

^This, though my gut says Mafia. Not really sure why

[Pine]

Right, forgot about the investigation for a minute. Chances of Tailor and Cop choosing the same target are really low, so there's merit to saying SK over Mafia

[Pine]

Well, that's game for me. Treating the guilty like a reaction test was really my only option, and it was a Hail Mary at best. If I'd not been alone I'd probably have just rolled over and accepted it, but I was the last Mafia. My sole hope was that PV really was gambiting based on suspicion of his imminent demise (he was definitely my next target,) and it was a slim one.

So congratulations! The Mafia are gone. I seriously considered giving you the list of four names I've narrowed the Serial Killer down to, with the one my gut says in bold, but screw you guys. Town deserves to lose this game. It has blundered from one lucky break to the next, and hasn't earned a single dead scum. Titus committed a serious error and outed herself. IAI was killed by the SK. Auntie J blew herself up because she killed TSO instead of listening when I said d3x. Nero and I were both guilties. In actual fact, barring Titus, not a single Mafioso ever came under serious, heavy suspicion. This Town bickered and fought against itself, following distractions and letting personality conflicts rule the day. You didn't do the math, and refused to acknowledge that the SK was the real threat. I'm not kidding, the SK became the mathematically most dangerous threat the moment Nero Cain died. No, Town deserves to lose, and it won't benefit from my narrowed-down list.

The enormous exception to the above is Peregrine V. I said it in the Mafia QT when it became an ad hoc SK notepad, and I'll say it again - Bravo. You did a fantastic job, and were seriously on your game here. I fully intend to nominate you for a Scummy for this game, win or lose.

Mr. or Madam Serial Killer - you have my regards and my best wishes. You've been playing a hell of a game too. I was completely lost until night five, when I narrowed it down a lot. Stick it to 'em.

P.S. I nailed the Doctor by shooting at and Watching Peregrine V. Doing so was win-win: I'd either kill the Cop or identify the Doctor

[Pine]

Garmr, before you rip into anyone further, exactly what positive contribution did you make to the Town game?

[Pine]

Also, before anything else, I'd like to say that I feel the only player, on any team, who deserved to win was PeregrineV

[Pine]

meh. I think 2 out of 4 Doc saves justifies my existence a little.

gg all.

Oh, and Garmr...

Also a note to dex you bloody idiot wtf did you claim dr in a neighborhood i was setting up kise to take the scum bullet and if there was scum in the neighborhood that outed you you ruined my plan and got yourself killed that was so so dumb. If there isn't then I fucked up and my plan would of never worked.

The play was mine to make, not yours. You don't get to decide how and when I Claim, dude. TD was ConfTown to me as soon as I was Recruited and it would've been insanely stupid of TWIE to off me right after I Claimed. It would've instantly outed him. The play was solid because it was the only 'safe' way to get my info out to the Town. Shame on you for taking shots at me after I died.

Well, the first of those saves was all you. The second was kind of intentional - I killed and watched PerV, thinking I'd either kill the Cop or catch the Doc, and I did. Also, I wanted to kill you instead of TSO - it would have been a very different game if that had happened. Auntie J would have lived, and PerV would not have survived long enough to Cop me

[Pine]

So Pine what was it about me that made you think I was Sk?

PoE, then crystal ball. Probably something about how you didn't really seem interested in getting things done, just in fluttering in every so often, saying a few words, then disappearing. Good SK strategy

best scum topic ever....

You liked my journal?