You could be anyone II - Game Over

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: kthx

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah...

Except that it seems suicidal for TD to have actually killed D3x after claiming doc in the hood and knowing that there was already suspicion on him.

Did d3x claim night 4 or night 5?

[Nachomamma8]

Kthx, I think the argument that scum wouldn't have killed d3x last night unless they knew he was a doctor is a pretty horrible one. Why would they kill any of the alternatives you suggested over d3x?

[Nachomamma8]

Hey garmr can you refresh me on your sk case on this slot so I don't have to go trudging for it?

[Nachomamma8]

Point 1. Titus acted like Mollie was pretty much confirmed town day 2 and when I after I made my sk titus way of thinking changed and she started hard pushing mollie day 3 before her lynch screaming sk.

Well, I agree this point is weak! Scum have no more inside knowledge about who the SK is more than anyone else does, not to mention I have absolutely no idea whatsoever why scum flipping a read on an unidentified player suddenly means SK.

2. I can link every kill to mollie as sk
vekoz(suspicious of her)
IAI(A scum read of hers that no one would vote)
IHNC(Accepted that she was a sk the easiest and was less likely to be lynched)
Josh B(She was scum reading him also me and also he had town read on me)
House(mollie had him as a scum read and he did push on mollie earlier. I'm not sure if he keeped his sk read on her. Also I pushing house as town and mollie might think I'm scum and shot house.)

This shows me that you're starting from a mollie = sk point and working from there: here are a couple obvious flaws in your reasoning:

1) SKs don't shoot people because their scumreads are townreading them: using this as a link is a hell of a stretch and I hope you realize why.

2) You point out that a lot of these shots are scumreads of mollie's: why is an SK more likely to shoot scum than town, especially when town has a considerable lead? Why are you still alive if mollie is shooting scumreads?

3)
Re: Vezok:

Yeah. Mollie and nero are both town.

I kinda want a CW to TD, but nothing seems to build. Does anyone have a good scumread except TD?

This is the last he commented on a mollie read. This doesn't look like a scumread to me?

Re: I have no creativity:

A couple of questions for all of
Question 0 why did mollie get obsessed with multiball as town.

Question 1 Why would town mollie be obsessed with multiscum then drop it day 2?

Question 2 If you think my case has no merit why did mollies response sound defeated and instead of addressing the issue if it's so easy to adress she says why aren't you looking at titus?

Question 3 Why were all mollies votes weaker players and when did she actually go for a hard push on someone who might be considered strong/active.

0: Because Setup spec

1: Setup Spec she thought was wrong

2: She wanted to know why you weren't looking at Titus. That one seems obvious

3: Weaker players in what way? How do you determine a strong and weak player? Also "weaker" players she probably thought she could rile up and get a reaction in which she could judge as town or scum.

This is his last comment on mollie, which is him rebutting your case on her. This very very very strongly suggests to me that he *isn't* reading her as a serial killer or anything close to it, so your assertion is again wrong.

Re: House:

This is probably my favorite one, but the last push House made before he hammered Fish was...

You know what you can add on your list kise the fact your a dr and I outed you for mafia to kill you.

Looks like you are having fun being wrong all over the place. Kise isn't doctor, but you attempt to out the doc is scummy as shit.

VOTE: Garmr

you. In the next post, he made a comment on how it would be "funny" if you were the SK.

3. She brought up muliscum as in different scum teams and she was exploring the possibility. But when sk was announced she didn't really explore the option and accepted it. Her attitude is hard to describe but not something I expected from town.

I don't have the slightest idea what point you're trying to make here, I'm sorry.

4/5. When I accused her of being mafia she was quick to toss it aside and pretty much defend my points pretty easily. But when I called sk her behavior changed and she was reduced to a defeated state it took some time to recover her ego. She also hasn't actually discredited any of my sk points but went around me by saying I was stupid ect or by pushing that I was scum and lying. Never did she really address them.

You say this, but there's not really the slightest evidence of this happening in thread? She ended up reacting strongly to you once you pushed what she thought was a dumb point for why she was scum, you didn't really attack her prior to the multiball comment. I might be wrong on this point because your ISO is long and my patience is short, but if that's the case, please enlighten me.

6. Yesterday she tried to push that sk doesn't exist and the kill flavor might be a stupid vig or a mafia with a extra kill that wanted to be called vig (after we had a flip fbi agent is when the second kills started coming.). Then when someone tried to say that executioner killed mafia and we had a fbi agent she flipped out and screamed that people arguing against her were scum. I don't see why a town mollie would see the need to disprove a sk existent.

Could you quote this please?

[Nachomamma8]

So, tl;dr:

Your first point is flawed because it assumes scum have inside info on SK and I have no idea why you would believe that (especially with an FBI agent already in the game).

Your second point is flawed because your criteria for SK choosing kills don't make sense at all (in particular, the "I'm townreading 'X'" connection) and a couple of the assumptions you made were actually just wrong (aka not a single one of the "this person suspected mollie" matched up at all :/).

I'd like if you clarified your later points a bit more because the closest thing resembling a point seems to be that mollie overreacted because she was too terrified by you pegging her as an SK? But this point would of course be weak since you did bother her enough where she decided to replace out and it makes absolutely no sense for an SK to replace out instead of shoot their aggravator. The fact you even pushed her to this point means that you probably aren't aware enough about her emotional state to make judgments about it or I'd imagine you wouldn't push her to replace out.

[Nachomamma8]

If you don't think scum is in the hood, you're just plain ignoring the facts. There are 2 people still alive in this game who found out d3x was the doc D4. D3x dies N4. To ignore this is still fucking stupid or scummy.

If you're setting up this dichotomy, you are saying that the only reason scum would kill d3x last night is because they knew he was the doctor. Otherwise, I don't think I understand the point of you bringing up other people who should have died: if you can agree with me on this point, I'd be happy to explain why I think your theory is short-sighted.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh, and for the record, if I was sk or scum, I'd have off'ed dex N1 or N2. He knows me way too well and is, I think, the only person in this game to play with me as an SK. As scum, well, I'd off him for similar reasons (unless I had a way to convince him I'm town like neighborizer...which I've done before).

This point is fair enough, though!
I'm voting you at the moment because d3x died suspecting you, but I agree it would be a very very strange world if you-scum left him alive all the way to Day 5.

[Nachomamma8]

2.I remember a post that INHC agreed with me about mollie possibly being sk but I couldn't find it at all and its scrambling my mind You know when your convinced of something you remeber. But I remember that this was a day I said that mollie is shooting people her scum reads and people that would benefit her shooting and the next night IHNC got shot I feel like that one was to try and set me up.

So you agree with me about your "oh X was killed because I was townreading" point being incorrect, then?

You didn't find it because it doesn't exist. I get why you're remembering it (deep, deep, confirmation bias), but it doesn't actually exist unless IHNC has some secret ISO I don't know about. Your last sentence in this paragraph is trying to say that you said mollie is shooting people she is scumreading (after shooting vezok, who she wasn't scumreading to my knowledge) and then somewhat shot IHNC to set you up? How does that work/make any sort of sense?

This makes me think vezok started to get doubts about mollie.

Doubts, maybe? Your original argument was that vezok was suspicious of her, and that's not at all the case even in the least bit: possessing doubts about someone doesn't mean you have a scumread on them and it certainly doesn't mean "high priority kill" unless you're literally the best scum player in the world and that's as close as people get.

Also your trying to disprove mollie shooting house because house was willing to lynch me.

No... you tried to say that house was suspicious of mollie. I pointed out that at the time of his death, he was more suspicious of you.

She could try and get me lynched which would be the better option for her but shooting me bring suspicion to her.

Your original point was that mollie's killing everyone suspicious of her off (wrong). Now suddenly you decide that she doesn't shoot you because she's afraid to kill people who are suspicious of her?

It goes on like this for the rest of the game not once did she every try to address my points.

Where did she address your points when you called her mafia?
What points of yours did she fail to address?

This post I find ironic because she calls me a vi yet we already know that sk is the one shooting everynight.

I can't say I see your point.

There's all your post about her trying to disprove sk. I love the last one because it gives prelude to her shooting house.

I agree that mollie's speculation was wrong. I don't see how incorrect SK speculation would make her an SK: there's not a particularly large motive to disprove the existence of SK as an SK unless A) you're claiming vig (which she wasn't), or B) there's some sort of smoking gun that makes things obvious. Neither of these things were in place. I thought your much more interesting point was the one where she "screamed and called everyone who disagreed with her scum": could you quote that for me?

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho

what do you think of my case on td.

Wouldn't scum know that House wasn't a cop the second he claimed an innocent on a Mafia Goon...?

[Nachomamma8]

Hi PV!

[Nachomamma8]

???

Votes kind of don't make sense, actually.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, not that much sense.

[Nachomamma8]

Garmr, I think your case makes sense for a TD-scum.
I don't have an independent read on TD that reinforces that case, though.

[Nachomamma8]

on inhc yes

I'm referring to your assertion that some of the kills were made because you were townreading them.
I'm trying to prod you to revisit that.

no i didn't make up that point out of the blue that was my original point from day 3.

Day 3 was after INHC was killed?
Here, I'm asking you to back up why you thought IHNC was a kill made to frame you.

He originally scum read her then town read her then i think he got suspicious of her again.

You think, but it isn't very clear at all, hence making it a bad kill for someone trying to erase suspicion (better to go against someone who actually suspects you as opposed to someone who sort of is starting to get uneasy about you again).

I didn't say he wasn't but he was after me for being anti town

I can vote Mollie, but it's more of a personality/PL lynch than a scum read.

You mean he was after Mollie for being anti town? I also think that it's misleading to say House suspected her and never called her town when he's suspected a majority of players at one time or another.

Whats the motivation for a town mollie to try and rule out sk?

She didn't: she brought up a theory that would make an assumption that a majority of players held completely wrong.

Also i'm that smocking gun.

That's not was I was referring to. I was referring to a large piece of evidence pointing to no SK even though one existed (aka SK skipping a bunch of kills).

me,pine and former fish were the ones correcting her we were all on her scum list dex did try to correct her but like i said his the exception.

You were on her scumlist before that point.
The reads on Pine/FF happened down the road. She wasn't lashing out against everyone who tried to correct her, either: she generally lashed out against people who called her scum which is typical mollie behavior.

[Nachomamma8]

Also what was the scum motivation in me saying kise was dr. I proved you previous reasoning worthless so try again bud.

Because you were doctor hunting...?
I mean, I don't really think you're scum but that wasn't really a jump

[Nachomamma8]

vezokpiraka was Robbie Williams, Vanilla Town executed Night 1

I am Innocent was Tom Cruise, Mafia goon executed night 2

I Have No Creativity was Seann William Scott, vanilla town executed night 3

Josh_B was Mila Kunis, Vanilla town executed night 4

House was Red Forman, Vanilla Town executed Night 5

And then when your done with that you can re explain how the SK is clearly trying to wipe out the mafia ASAP with these kills.

Except for vekoz they were all mollie scum reads IHNC would of been someone she was unsure of through since she didn't really mention him (think an attempt to frames me).

You never answered why she would continue shooting her scumreads despite town being in the lead and it no longer being to her advantage to shoot her scumreads. You also haven't addressed why her scumreads dying is an SK tell, and you haven't really addressed why you're still alive if Mollie was an SK. Again, she replaced out because she was pissed off at you. Why replace out when she could just kill you...?

[Nachomamma8]

Also what was the scum motivation in me saying kise was dr. I proved you previous reasoning worthless so try again bud.

Because you were doctor hunting...?
I mean, I don't really think you're scum but that wasn't really a jump

But if scum had a tracker they would of known who dr was the night before and the bulk of twie argument is scum would of had one. The debate here is why i would shout dr on kise is I was mafiso with knowledge that dex was dr.

Watcher, I assume you mean?

[Nachomamma8]

Town doesn't need roles to be a danger to the SK.

[Nachomamma8]

Town have probably have no roles that would be a danger to her

What leads you to this conclusion?

Why haven't you addressed any of my posts since I replaced in? I've been waiting, you know

[Nachomamma8]

Why haven't you addressed any of my posts since I replaced in? I've been waiting, you know

I must have missed them; could you point me to them?

All of them?
I thought you had problems with pirate Mollie when she replaced out, why not engage at all with her replacement? Or comment on my exchange with garmr?

[Nachomamma8]

Thank you for not self-hammering!

[Nachomamma8]

my thought processes are different to the average player as is mollies.

This is true. Unfortunately, it makes what you're doing (saying that killing scumreads is something that would come from mollie-SK) a bit of a crapshoot because you have no idea how mollie would play SK since you've never seen her play a serial killer role before. And if you want a bit of insight into her Serial Killer play, check out this old fucking post with mollie describing how she plays SK. So yes, she would kill her scumreads as scum probably but the biggest tenant of her serial killer play is that she's pretty much fucked, so have fun with the role. The strongest point against mollie being SK is her not killing you earlier: she replaced out because you two got into a fight and as Serial Killer, she would have just killed you by now.

. She continually tried to push the idea that the Mafia couldn't have possibly missed two kills when there was already plenty of evidence to the contrary

I might be biased, considering I'm inhabiting her slot and all, but I don't actually think this is scummy. I think it would be pretty insane for an SK to be like "guys, there's no SK at all" when there very clearly is.

she pretty clearly (pretended that she, from my point of view) didn't know how the bomb role works.

I think aj was sent to do the nk and that is why she was blown up

Is this not how the bomb role works?

[Nachomamma8]

It's hard for me to picture Garmr as SK thanks to interactions with Mollie in general.

[Nachomamma8]

ALRIGHT MOLLIE TIMES UP

VOTE: MOLLIE

j/k but I don't think I said sup to you Nacho so sup

Yeah it's looking like kthx is our man. Not completely trusting Pine saying he's the last scum but hopefully the SK is gone asap.

So what do we have to talk about?

Thanks for making me feel special!

[Nachomamma8]

he came under fire from me. dont remember much backup. also, by crap shoot i mean hard due to prolly looking town. nacho is the most likely NOT to be the sk.

Why am I the least likely to be the SK?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Kthxbye

SC suspicions generally seem pretty horrible.

[Nachomamma8]

and instead of clarifying your original post you responded with ad hominem attacks. Town simply does not do that.

I wish this was the case because it would make the game a much more pleasant one and prevent situations like the one we're facing now because I feel the way Garmr's treated several players in this thread is pretty fucked up and crosses a good number of my personal lines, but I don't think it is.

[Nachomamma8]

Also nacho trying to make me out to be the villain is annoying. I know your not pushing the case i would say 4 of those players pushed me first and the 2 didn't really deserve it dex and ank.

It's nearly everyone fault even mine I acknowledge my faults. But what sickens me is people who try to put the blame on one person to resolve their own guilt or try to kick another with another and this game is very sickening and toxic.

If you are just going to pin it all on me Nacho your part of the problem

I made an observation in the hopes you would reassess your current play when I saw you pissing off strangercoug because strangercoug is an extremely good person who honestly doesn't deserve the harsh treatment you're giving him. I am making this observation because I know you've been as hostile this game as you've been because of the various toxic fights that occurred earlier in the game because I haven't seen you this way, and I know you don't intend to have the effect on the gamestate you're having now but it's happening and I thought you should probably know. If this comes across an attack, I apologize because it's meant to be coming from a place of good intentions more than anything.

[Nachomamma8]

Hey Nacho, do you think I'm SK and why?

You said something about suspicion of SC but....well, I'm pretty sure I've said he's likely NOT the SK due to him starting off the day thinking there's no scum left, so I'd like you to expound on your vote reasoning if you please.

Yes I think you're the SK.
Everyone else seems to have compelling reasons why they aren't the SK and meanwhile your push on Rach is absolutely terrible.

[Nachomamma8]

i think kise's case on rachmarie is really good and people should listen to it
i'm gonna do more definite stuff tonight when i'm drunk

[Nachomamma8]

unless you're saying it's good based on why RM isn't the SK in which case I reluctantly agree.

yeah that's what i meant. a case is a case whether it's a towncase or a scumcase.
who do you think is the SK now buddy?

[Nachomamma8]

also i don't really know why you're voting yourself just because you're suspected
like everyone suspecting means you should defend yourself and look town and hunt harder, not self-destruct

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: The Way It Ends

[Nachomamma8]

Jasont has never used a neighborizing serial killer in any one of his games (or any serial killers with strange third party modifications), so I doubt that he's going to randomly start now. TD is as good as confirmed not-SK as Kise is.

Kthx's strange way of approaching his lynch seems town to me. I didn't want to back off his lynch initially because suspicion immediately followed by self-vote seemed like a last ditch effort to me, but I like the additional followup and "conditions" on not being the lynch today (aka his earnestness in not being around for later lynches seems genuine).

I agree with Kise's case on Rach being notSK. I have a separate town read on Rach. I doubt I will ever lynch Rach.

Garmr's general SK hunting but more specifically his interactions with pirate mollie make me doubt SK there pretty heavily.

^^These are very strong not-SK reads.

[Nachomamma8]

Give me time to think about whether I believe Hostile Intent's claim, but I don't like the dancing around the issue that he's been doing.

i also wouldnt mind being dayviged if that means that SC gets lynched for being an obvious scum

If I were "obvious scum", then one would not need an explanation for why I am scum, yet I'm under the impression that the other player's opinions on me are mixed overall. Obviously, the rest of us don't see what you see. You have never posted a case on me (the most you've done with me is conjecture that I am Garmr's scumbuddy), so we can't see what you see beyond words you've never backed up. Until you actually post a decent case on me, you are white noise to me.

Currently don't like SC's first couple days of play. He initially had TSO as a scumread early day 1, backed off. Then he had IHNC as a scumread, backed off. Then HI wagon crops up and he's just okay with it?

What compels you to keep him around?

So you are arguing that we should lynch him but you think the sk would shoot him?

WTF is that?

The point I'm making is that Hostile Intent has shot any attempt of being of any utility to us.

• If he's the SK, all he'll ever give is "not SK" results, which tells us nothing about his claimed targets.
  
• If he's not the SK, then he's kill bait. The only two reasons the SK would not kill Hostile Intent are 1.) Titus is wrong and HI actually poses no threat to the SK or 2.) SK does not want to risk being watched.

What don't you understand?

Then HI claims, Titus makes a case that HI is SK, and SC falls for it a bit too easily. I don't like how hard he rails against HI for "not being of any utility if town" because she/he's instant kill-bait: it doesn't make sense why he wasn't more willing to let her live, see if she/he actually ended up being killed in a night.

SC, why do you think Garmr is the SK?

[Nachomamma8]

ank's town as shit, he's a strong not-SK read as well

[Nachomamma8]

actually kise i'm sorry, i'm flexing in a different direction today

-SC's position on the HI wagon is weird as fuck. He never started suspecting HI hard at all until the claim: when the claim came, he pushed HI hard. The reasons he decided to push this wagon is because HI's investigative results would be useless and because he agreed with Titus that it was a convenient claim for SK. It's no secret that the SK would be threatened by the one role in game that could catch them out, and a weak case with a lot of force behinds it screams "threatened" while Mom's case for HI being town (meta saying that HI tends to start from an all players are town point excusing a weird looking null read and calling him town for the inconsistent reads also seems pretty fucking town. TWIE defending HI for the claim being such a distinctly not-SK claim (why the fuck fakeclaim a role with very small marginal utility to town except confirming your own existence? why the fuck would we kill HI today when SK needs to kill HI tonight?) both seem pretty fucking town. The reason this is important to me is because the FBI agent not dying N1 makes it seem like HI was framed: and if the FBI Agent was framed, I would expect the SK to be a part of HI's lynch.

-I feel SC's SK hunting has been weaker than most others's SK hunting today. What is his case on Garmr being SK? What are his other SK suspects? I don't know, do any of you?

[Nachomamma8]

What's scummy about Garmr? Why don't you agree that Garmr's suspicion on mollie for being SK seemed genuine and why do you think he started that giant crusade against her if he knew that she wasn't?

Who are your strongest not-SK reads? Do you agree with the RachMarie not-SK case?

[Nachomamma8]

Could you explain why you felt so strongly about HI being SK?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: StrangerCoug

Thought I was voting here already, still don't wanna lynch twie. I'll be getting stuff done after stuff is done elsewhere.

[Nachomamma8]

Dance with me Nacho.

What do you feel about both that reasoning and how easily this wagon sprung up?

Don't give a shit how easily wagon sprung up, it's late game and people want to see a light and also it was led by confirmed town.
How I feel about your reasoning:

TWIE defending HI for the claim being such a distinctly not-SK claim (why the fuck fakeclaim a role with very small marginal utility to town except confirming your own existence? why the fuck would we kill HI today when SK needs to kill HI tonight?) both seem pretty fucking town.

yeah i had a pretty similar thought earlier and ultimately agree with you.
wanna vote sc w/me?

[Nachomamma8]

i voted him earlier because kise-rach point was good and i was like "ok, i'll sheep him while i read the game". then i read the game and never changed my vote :/

[Nachomamma8]

As I keep saying over and over, his WIFOM and his lying that I was pushing that the SK was not investigation-immune when my interpretation of the cop article that I gave him as evidence against 50% immunity was that an investigation-immune SK should exist. (I could have sworn he said something about my attacking everyone that thinks I'm SK, but I can't find it in his ISO. It's not true in any event as I do not suspect anybody else that suspects me at the moment.)

I don't like these arguments because generally they are based on poking holes in his arguments that you are an SK. I think that Garmr has been SK-hunting the hardest out of anyone alive today thanks on the ISO attacking the shit out of mollie sort of indefinitely for a while and I don't think pointing out weak arguments means that he's at all likely to be SK since the arguments clearly are coming from a genuine place.

As for why he pushed that she was, that's food for thought, but nothing's coming to mind as to what makes the "crusade" different from mine on him.

Your crusade on him lacks a fuck ton of conviction and a fuck ton of thought process. The case you give above points to flaws in arguments. Garmr's factored in her setup speculations, kills made, flawed arguments, etc. etc. etc. etc: I don't really think I've seen too many crusades as persistent at this one in my five years of playing so I'd be surprised if you thought yours carried that same bloodlust.

As phrased, other than the clear by HI, you followed by TWIE (could be SK in theory, but does not align well with my personal experience in practice). Forced to assume a Mafia member still exists, that would be RachMarie, with Ankamius a distant second.

And any people underneath TWIE you could reasonably see as SK? Why isn't TD before TWIE?

[Nachomamma8]

Alright I'm back now.

Just to summarize:

Pine thinks I'm SK because I look the least likely to be SK. Which is just SO solid.
And has also noticed such nefarious actions such as:
Being more active when I'm pushing a strong read.
Suspiciously droping off my activity near Christmas.

Garmr is still insisting that my case against him was reliant on him being mafia, even though the last time we interacted it was specifically to show him that wasnt true. So its nice to see he hasnt let facts get in the way of his crusade to kill off the people suspicious of him.
I really like the new "TWIE refuted my point that the SK would never kill the doc by showing that its possible that the SK thought that house was claiming doc and killed him, therefore TWIE is INSISTING that house was killed because he was the doc and that the SK would always try to kill the doc, and the SK is TWIE now obviously." Because I really like your commitment to trying to get me lynched without arguing a point based in reality.
I also like the "TWIE tried to save the FBI Agent because he's the SK" angle too. I mean, that is some serious commitment.

But I still cant tell if thats worse than Kthx going, "I'm pretty sure the SK meets these arbitrary conditions, oh look TWIE fits those conditions I just made up and has a wagon going, what a convenient time to just add myself to this wagon with no good reason."

Man I missed some quality mafia while I was gone.

this also seems more genuine than the SC response
twie, why don't you vote SC with us?

[Nachomamma8]

Prove it.

I'm surprised you're denying the statement because it seems obvious?
I can point to postcount, I already pointed to reasoning, I can point out mollie replaced out because Garmr went too far...
What else do you exactly want from me here?

Not easily, but I can make heads and tails out of why people think kthxbye is the SK.

So... your SK pool is basically Garmr. And if not Garmr, then kthx.

[Nachomamma8]

I simply have a stronger town read on TheWayItEnds. For the TiphaineDeath case I had to work, the Mafia would have to still exist, which I don't believe. On the other hand, though, I don't see anything outstanding he has done. Ankamius is much the same way.

I'm asking you about SK suspicions: why isn't TD higher than TWIE in your not-SK list?

[Nachomamma8]

Is TD not a neighborizer?

[Nachomamma8]

Fine by me if you don't like either of my ideas.

this seemed town

[Nachomamma8]

i'd be pretty willing to flex to twie if we have the time to do so!

[Nachomamma8]

i have trouble understanding garmr/rach suspicions in general because they seem to be missing a large portion of the game unless i'm missing something?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: TheWayItEnds

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho what do I do with my vote and my weapon?

Your weapon's a hard choice.
I'm praying pretty hard that this is the last lynch, but if it isn't, I'd revisit SC and I'd revisit Ank, probably definitely Ank over SC.

[Nachomamma8]

i know

[Nachomamma8]

I don't see Ank as a lynchee amongst the rest of you. Shooting him over anyone else basically means (for example) there's 3 people still lynchable instead of 2 people.

Well if TWIE flips town, then I'm burning everything down and rereading the game from the start. If you're going for lowest risk to highest utility to the town ratio, shoot SC. But if you're going for the hero shot, I'd recommend looking over ank again before the final shots are fired.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: TheWayItEnds

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

If vengeful townie trigger was after he was killed, then Jason would have flipped Kise but kept the thread locked while Kise chose. If it was a simultaneous thing, Kise probably chose who he shot on the event of his death.

[Nachomamma8]

Or Kise didn't know how his power worked/lied for gambit reasons. If that was the case, still lynching TWIE.

[Nachomamma8]

4873: ?

what do you want me to clarify?

[Nachomamma8]

I just want to clarify that the argument here is that I, as the SK, knowing that Kise was a vengeful who had stated that he was targeting me were he to die, killed Kise, effectively outing myself.

I mean. That seems pretty rock solid.

he didn't state he was targeting you yesterday, did he?

[Nachomamma8]

i also fail to see how this rebuttal is stronger than the original argument presented

[Nachomamma8]

You say that like you had another option.

[Nachomamma8]

Mmmm, that does change things a lot.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think I want to say much today.
I would be very very unhappy if Rach was lynched in the event of my death.ss

[Nachomamma8]

We have two lynches to catch final scum.

Garmr
RachMarie
Ank
TWIE
Nacho
TD
StrangerCoug

TD is confirmed town via neighborizer, pretty much: giving one SK neighborizer over the other one arbitrarily is dumb, and making one bulletproof while the other one not would be pretty fucked up.

I don't think those kills make sense from Rach-SK. A large part of me feels Rach is town.

SC's interaction with investigative immunity re: Garmr don't really make sense as a push because he would know it wasn't true if he was SK. It felt like a push with a considerable amount of truth in it.

Garmr's much less town now that genuine SK suspicions aren't a good marker for someone being town.

I still hold Ank suspicions at the back of my mind.

[Nachomamma8]

let's please not argue about this now

[Nachomamma8]

let's please not argue about this ever?
or maybe postgame?

[Nachomamma8]

mollie would have shot you if she was the sk

[Nachomamma8]

it also makes literally no sense to place me back in the pool because of two SKs: that's not the reason you ultimately held this slot as town, unless you forgot

[Nachomamma8]

we have two lynches.
there will be a kill tonight, making 5.
there will be a lynch tomorrow, making 4.
there won't be a kill.
another lynch is 3.
then SK kills again to bring it down to two.

[Nachomamma8]

exactly
she hated you so much as a result of the game that she blacklisted you and refused to play with you
mollie would have shot you if she was sk

[Nachomamma8]

Who says she would of, she gained more for me being alive as the conflict she just couldn't handle the stress.

you argue that you being alive was a benefit to her alignment
she couldn't stand playing with you in game to the point where her desire to win was drowned out by her desire to stop playing with you
if she had a kill to use on you, she would have killed you

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho can you go into more detail RE: SC?

[Nachomamma8]

Anyway SC, we know for a fact that the SK targeted the cop. Don't you think if there was one scum left that they'd target the cop as well?

Of course I do.

If yes, then don't you think you're being a little early on the 'no reason to believe there's another scum in the game' talk?

We have no evidence of a double-kill. I don't know whether or not the mod's meta is to show one, but since different MO's are being used for Mafia and SK I'm presuming he would.

What's your idea(s) on catching the SK with or without the possible remaining scum?

I don't happen to have any particular plan.

Then she should be on your list to lynch then.

She's my alternate. I think it's more important to get rid of you right now.

As you stated it's from your reads list meaning that you probably left out your town reads. I believe this is a blunder on your part for trying to push through your the only possible one left. Also note that I was mafia on your lsit and had no reason for me to be sk which makes me think your reaching.

Show where I specifically had you as Mafia.

How do I know this because I'm not fucking stupid. Twie also pointed it out after me. It's basic knowledge that I would only expect newbies to get wrong. This reply makes me want to lynch you even more.

The 50/50 immunity is not how I mod. In my games, SK investigates however I think makes sense or is suitable for balance. I

NEVER

do a coin flip unless it's a random cop, and even then only in bastard mod games. Unless and until you give me mod meta to support that jasonT1981 handles SKs differently from me I'm treating your "50/50" comment as an SK slip.

You have no actual case on me or on rachmarie except that it was process of elimination from your town reads yet you would prefer to lynch me.

My case on you may for the most part be a sheep of Nachomamma and TheWayItEnds, but it does exist and you can't simply write it off as "no actual case" on those grounds. As regards having no actual case on RachMarie, that is conceded and it's the reason why I'm not gunning for her right now.

This shows me while you don't care as much about people who don't bring much to the this game and not as much of a threat to you (rachmarie) you would rather go after someone who could potentially bring you down (me). I don't see why town would have survival instincts like that.

Prove that I'm acting survivalist.

The push on garmr for the 50/50 slip here seems genuine and a strange angle if he's legitimately hunting for SK but knows it isn't true

[Nachomamma8]

Because TWIE flipped SK without any positive modifiers. Even if the even-night SK was given a boon to compensate for the inferior nights to kill, it would be a bulletproof and not investigation-immunity.

Even twie admitted that sk probably wouldn't be picked up by the town cop and most the cop immunity never really appears on the sk end lol but the cops results.

TWIE saying that without knowing for sure means pretty much nothing.

SK doesn't need investigative immunity if cop results are worded "mafia" and "not mafia". There is approximately a 0% chance that a cop can pick up a serial killer when there is an FBI agent in the game. If you think SC is town, please back it up with play.

[Nachomamma8]

FTR I find it really weird that Nacho didn't know the results PV claimed he got too.

?

[Nachomamma8]

OK, taking the plunge.

Vote: Ankamius

[Nachomamma8]

Oh right forgot about this.

FTR I find it really weird that Nacho didn't know the results PV claimed he got too.

?

The type of results. I find it bizarre that you wouldn't check for that before making your post responding to my claim that SC is conftown.

I didn't check because I'm about 90% on cops not picking up on the SK and how the investigations are worded didn't really factor into my end conclusion.

[Nachomamma8]

I

WAS

conftown until the framer flipped. Now everything is up in the air.

This was a pretty town post though, so I guess your SC post is right!

[Nachomamma8]

There is no way in any fucking world ever that Rach as SK makes that vote and I hope everyone here realizes that.

[Nachomamma8]

She needs one more vote to get hammered and lose the game, there are two votes out on two different wagons that aren't her and she takes the third option and creates a vanity wagon that both people who aren't voting her don't like.

[Nachomamma8]

Optimal play is to no lynch today and then power lynch Ank tomorrow, then Garmr in 3p if game isn't over but I'm pretty sure it will be over by then.

[Nachomamma8]

okay.

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: Garmr
Hasn't changed.

Will you vote Ank with me tomorrow if I vote Garmr today?

[Nachomamma8]

Please don't vote Rach tomorrow, cougar. Please.

[Nachomamma8]

nope but people i will not lynch

Nacho and ank

people i will lynch

strange cougar (<1st prefrence) rachmarie.

VOTE: SC

Ank has stated that he won't vote StrangerCoug.
I will not vote StrangerCoug.

This means you will not get your SC lynch unless he self-hammers, and good luck with that.

[Nachomamma8]

If I can get Rach and SC to lynch him after you die, I can.

[Nachomamma8]

Turning to emotional manipulation already?

[Nachomamma8]

What are your reasons for being against an Ank lynch as much as you are?

[Nachomamma8]

Why?

[Nachomamma8]

You'd do better by town with more thinking and less strongarming. Strongarming alienates, thinking brings you closer to a sensible resolution.

[Nachomamma8]

nothing in anks iso indicates sk.

What about Mom's?
Do you have any specific things that make you think either are town, or is it just a lack of things that are SK indicative that make you think town?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm way too disengaged from this game because nothing makes any sense anymore.

If Garmr's not SK, I'm just going to be mad that Rach got away with it.

To me, there's clear motivation to set you up as the lynch today because SC isn't going to get lynched and it's going to be hard to attempt to lynch Rach through me. The fact that Ank is setting up a you-lynch now while seemingly expecting the townflip and simultaneously taking a lynch after the fact seems pretty SK-ish to me. I understand a mindset that finds someone wanting to chain lynch multiple players because they don't know for sure which the last one is, but this is worded like "I really think it's Garmr but maybe it's Rach" which seems strange to me.

[Nachomamma8]

What do you think of that?

[Nachomamma8]

Like Rach towntells so much but her thought processes and motivations reek no matter what I look at. If we're going to have to use both lynches we have, I can't suggest leaving Rach because there's no way I will ever have a strong read either way again.

There's also this with that same vibe.

[Nachomamma8]

Also the shift from Rach scum --> Rach town --> Garmr scum is all sorts of unnatural.
He originally seemed to have a pretty strong scumread on Rach, then he didn't because she towntelled so hard, then he just railed hard against his second suspect instead of actually reanalyzing or believing that original suspect was town.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho

Why do you feel so strongly about Ank? I had a fairly strong town read on his pred, Mom.

Nope. Don't try to pull this.

VOTE: RachMarie
VOTE: RachMarie
VOTE: RachMarie

Don't try to pull... talking with a townread about a scumread she thinks is wrong?

[Nachomamma8]

So... the towntells Rach dropped. You just don't believe in them or?

[Nachomamma8]

But no seriously, the Mom angle makes no sense and I don't get why she would try to go that angle as town.

Why would she take it as scum?
I still don't get the thing where you voted her for asking why I was scumreading you.

[Nachomamma8]

More specifically, "why would last SK ever do this" type of towntells I pointed out that Rach dropped at the end of yesterday.

[Nachomamma8]

You think that's a conscious scum strategy Rach makes?

[Nachomamma8]

More specifically, "why would last SK ever do this" type of towntells I pointed out that Rach dropped at the end of yesterday.

Why would TWIE completely go back on a scumread on the FBI Agent the moment he claims?

Because the claim looked town as shit and he generally played like a townie during the day?

[Nachomamma8]

Like... he always had scum to scumhunt when he was alive, so he did.

[Nachomamma8]

If you're not hunting by actions and reactions, then what are you hunting by exactly?

[Nachomamma8]

SC is not mafia based on cop clear, but that does not mean he is not SK.

Ank replaced Mom hmmm going to take another look at Mom.

Garmr I am not sure about you there are things that make me think you are the other SK but some of the things make me think you could be town. I need to take another look at you.

This is Rach's post before she started her readthrough yesterday. Her wagon was at 2/3 needed. Your wagon was at 1. Garmr's wagon was at 1. The two players voting her were you and Garmr. She has no defined stances except for a townread on me (and I didn't have a wagon on me, so pretty much complete freedom to vote whatever wagon she wants), and there is less than a day until deadline, meaning expectation is that people will compromise. Instead of voting a you wagon or a garmr wagon (thus killing someone suspicious of her AND getting 1 of two required mislynches), she voted SC who had no votes on him and wasn't voting her. Lack of fear because I was protecting her doesn't explain that, especially since I hadn't really vocally come out in her defense at that point.

[Nachomamma8]

Why is SC the path of least resistance?

[Nachomamma8]

Considering the whole "he's impossible to get lynched" thing.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm likely to hammer after watching scrubs, this line of questioning doesn't seem to be going anywhere productive.

[Nachomamma8]

Meaning that she's less likely to get pressure back from it. Garmr definitely will retaliate and at that point I was unpredictable enough that she can't really be sure with me.

Like this makes literally no sense. You and Garmr were already voting her. Why is she afraid of you two scumreading her?

[Nachomamma8]

And how did she know that SC wouldn't retaliate?

[Nachomamma8]

Mmmmmmmmmm

[Nachomamma8]

Mmmnmnmnnnnm

[Nachomamma8]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Ankamius

[Nachomamma8]

Not hammering.
Going to sleep.

[Nachomamma8]

Prod dodge, will have time tomorrow

[Nachomamma8]

Garmr, how exactly is that a slip? The SK has done a lot of help in netting scum, considering a bunch of dead scum and all.

[Nachomamma8]

Rach, can you talk a little more before deadline?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm just posting to let everyone know that I'm reading and keeping an eye on deadline.

[Nachomamma8]

If there are maybe really good things to bring up about your towniness or other people's scumminess, bring it up now but I think my decision's mostly made.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Garmr