(Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia 2 [Over]

[Muffin]

like just because you say something doesn't make it true.

hey guys i made a really convincing case why i'm actually an nk-immune lynchproof miller vig D1. Not gonna go back and find it for u tho.

[Muffin]

not going to iso 645 posts for you. they are there and you know it.

sure they are

[Muffin]

mhm
you can try to save shos mate, but he's dead when i flip anyway, so your efforts are futile.

The only reason I think shos is town is because of certain things that other people have said in our PT that I'm not going to reveal atm.

I'm the one you ought to be trying to convince. But instead you're hiding behind the Titus guilty instead of linking or quoting the case that you literally said you made, even when neither pirate ika or myself can find it.

Where is the town motivation in that I wonder?

[Muffin]

make it obvious that they are scum.

You haven't done that, either.

The entirety of your reason for voting shos, as far as I can tell, is that he was voting TF for pressure and you claimed not to understand why despite it being obvious and even after I explained it for you.

[Muffin]

who the fuck cares? What's important is i caught him, not how

[Muffin]

In other words, you can't explain why he's scum. He just has to be, because you said so, am I right?

Is that why you can't answer Mollie/ika/whichever?

[Muffin]

oh good. that means you're sane.

VOTE: shos

Or random. Or that shos was millerized/framed/whatever.

oh good. that means you're sane.

VOTE: shos

Or random. Or that shos was millerized/framed/whatever.

i suppose. But the simpliest explanation to me is she's sane, since she got town on town and scum on someone I am scumreading.

I don't need to explain. Whether we lynch him or me, he's confscum. So I will absolutely not waste any effort showing the obvious.

You shouldn't contradict yourself like that, scum.

[Muffin]

Hi awesome can you please take a look at 4370 when you come back

[Muffin]

So you know which one is confirmed, but aren't telling?

[Muffin]

Needs more Wisdom votes.

[Muffin]

Needs more Wisdom votes.

What about Titus town result on Wisdom?

What about it? You ready to confirm one of Titus/Shos as town?

[Muffin]

4503 is so aggressive and hostile that I have to

VOTE: FIN3.

That degree of insulting and hostility feels a lot more like scum trying to discourage people than like genuine town anger.

VOTE: titus

Looks like I was wrong Wisdom. They are partners.

listen here cum-slut, i bet you 5 million dollars that you don’t own a bird. but guess what? i own 7. and i can tell you right now that a bird would never just walk into something like a chocolate fountain. they’ll rarely walk directly into water.

but say that your idiotic theory is correct.

say it did actually walk into it.

that animal still probably died.

is that still funny to you? do you still get your kicks out of knowing that that bird was probably terrified and opening its mouth to scream in that last panel?

and if you say yes then you seriously disgust me as a human being.

I usually have a strong stomach for insults but even this makes my stomach churn.

I am giving you 1 warning don't fuck with my sister.

It's ok ika...I don't even get it after "cum-slut".

It's copypasta

[Muffin]

Boop badoop, just waiting for PV to spill his results, pretty much just going to prod-dodge until that happens.

Withholding info to foster discussion actually has the opposite effect.

[Muffin]

Oh yeah

VOTE: shos

I was also willing to lynch Wisdom earlier, but I'm leaning away from that possibility lately.

why

[Muffin]

Now this is utterly absurd. I have shos dead to rights and PV saves him again with a result that confirms nothing but people will say it will. His result matches shos's. He didn't even ask a question on the sensoring according to his paraphrase.

PV and shos are buddies.

This would be more persuasive if PVs target didn't flip scum yesterday. Maybe they're scum maybe not but as long as PV keeps finding scum to lynch I'm not really going to complain.

VOTE: blizzard

[Muffin]

If blizzard flips town I will happily turbo lynch PV tomorrow.

[Muffin]

Can you think of any reason beyond "PV is wrong and we are town" and beyond "lol shos is scum" why a town player shouldn't vote you?

[Muffin]

Can you think of any reason beyond "PV is wrong and we are town" and beyond "lol shos is scum" why a town player shouldn't vote you?

Muffin... are we reading the same game?

We've made a case on shos and given plenty of reasons already of why he's been our top scumread. Titus's guilty on only but a corroboration on why he's scum. You can ISO us and you will find a ton of concerns we've put out as to why we're pushing shos. He's scum. ~.Zar

That's not what I asked, though, and I find your answer telling. I'm asking why a town player (me) should not sheep PV in this particular circumstance. I am not currently townreading you, and PV led us to a scum lynch yesterday. If that was a bus, then he'll eventually run out of teammates if he hasn't already.

More importantly: He's not got a cop guilty on you, he's got a gunsmith positive. Your response, instead of going "yep we're a town vig" is "we're not scum, and not a miller". You've implicitly accepted that you

do

have a gun.

[Muffin]

@Muffin

*eyeroll* So basically, you're rolefishing.

That's a pretty blatant distortion of what I said.

Can YOU think of any reason why a townie shouldn't be voting Blizzard at this point?

[Muffin]

Titus you've been wrong about both these players and spoke vehemently in their defense:

So I went back and iso'd Jackel98:

First he says FIN3 is not scum

Spoiler: lynch FIN3, but not as a priority over scum

Can we lynch FIN3?

Not as a priority over scum, but they're being ignored right now. Possible they could be a really important role for scum. Or just a lurker.

Then confirms there is no evidence pointing towards FIN3 as scum

Spoiler: no evidence against FIN3

Not as a priority over scum

why did you say this too
it is also fascinating

please do not ignore this
i find it fascismating that you would say this about voting us for why are you not treating us as if we could be mafia

Because there is no evidence against you other than you being stupid. Other people, Eddie for example, do.

Then 35 pages into the game he decides it's a good idea to vote a player he expressly does not believe is scum

Spoiler: Oh BTW FIN3 is scum

I've seen people refer to Eddie as a miller, but did he ever refer to himself as one? Looking back, I guess I can see what he meant by Town Fascist Role. Would be more believable now and more understandable then if you had said that "role" was a placeholder in the first place. Still doesn't really match up to when he said that he was in the fascist faction, though.

Reading what I did from the Inuyasha game, I don't think that it is like this one. I didn't get anything in my role PM about being communist or fascist. Everyone in the Inuyasha game had undead, demon, or human in theirs. I don't really suspect Titus over not comparing this game with that one.

I really dislike Klingon's play. I haven't played with her before and I've seen town play this way, but the tunneling and what I see as poor logic just don't sit right with me. Eddie is a better read in my mind based on actual facts but Klingon is stronger, despite the lack of actual scum-tell type evidence.

Oh, and I still am hating FIN3. Probably the lack of punctuation, poor grammar, what I see as arrogance, and odd use of points of view. Possibly player quirks, but nobody can tell she/they are anonymous. Oh, and I dislike the bringing up of the InuYasha game as evidence against Titus. Although it had stacking factions, they aren't like they were in the InuYasha game where everybody was told that they were in one of those. Unless FIN3 thought they we all did, because they are communist/fascist scum.

VOTE: Frightened inmated number3

But he wants to remind us all that FIN3 is not scum

Spoiler: I want FIN3 out of this game, but nothing in their posts constitutes a scumtell

I

was

voting for Eddie, but I want FIN3 out of this game.

Okay, I will then.
Awesome: Their play has been pretty town, imo. As I said before, I am pretty sure that the spat between you and them was probably TvT, or null at the worst. However, their townreading of Eddie based on the apparent closeness of their roles in wording is odd. Not saying that that is their only reason, but it is the most recent one that I have seen and it struck me as possibly a scum-slip?

Prohawk: Pretty solidly town, as well. Not as many posts as some, but makes up for it by actually participating, in my opinion. I disagree with his 479, though. I liked his 857, mainly because I agree with both points.

Now a brief interlude where I answer another part of the game/question: "you can target someone with a cop-shot, who is it and why"
I'd target FIN3. I'm ambivalent towards her content, atm. She's the hardest person to read, because while I disagree with her points- such as the InuYasha game- and dislike her tone/attitude/something, I don't feel that anything I see is a scumtell. I feel really ambivalent; maybe she's a jester, or maybe there's just a giant WIFOM ball and no one wants to touch it. I sure don't.

Rest soon. Class is almost over, and don't have access again until ~2:45PM EST.

That is not a town thought process. Nothing about this series of actions/thoughts puts me at ease when I look for a natural progression that would come from town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jackel

@Muffin, that reads newb town to me. He's not scumreading FIN3, but he wants to sort them. It's not a priority lynch but he's testing a theory there. It's just worded very inartfully.

Again, he's saying there's not a slip (what we thought Eddie did at the time) but he really wants to sort the slot.

He's stating he doesn't like the content FIN3 produces and votes them because... he wants to sort them... pretty transparent there.

I think it's not very elegantly worded but yes, it does come from town IMO.

I also find that his annoying nature on this page is very town reflective. He, implied in the posts you quoted, townreads me, but then insults me calling me an arrogant asshole. That behavior is more likely to come from town. Scum don't want to piss off their "townreads".

Yes. I do. It's day 1. Jackal's ISO is full of catching up and trying to solve the game. It reads like newbtown trying to sort out the game and not being confident so pressure to gain reads.

From my experience, newbscum tend to over explain or not explain at all. Explaining but being awkward is a hallmark of newbtown to me.

---------

zzz
looking forward to laughing at you when prohawk flips scum and peregrine exactly what he said he is

And I will laugh at you over this slip business when ProHawk flips town jailkeeper.

Why should we trust your intuition that you are sane, when it's equally possible that you are simply misreading shos and that you're insane/random/whatever? Why would we not sheep PV? If Blizzard is town, then PV's fucked tomorrow.

You also spent a lot of energy arguing that PV and shos are scumpals. Do you still think they are scum together? On the same team?

[Muffin]

Can YOU think of any reason why a townie shouldn't be voting Blizzard at this point?

yep. The guilty on him is coming from confirmed scum, and Pere's result is just that he has a gun which doesn't equal scum.

There is absolutely zero logic in lynching him over shos/me.

He's not confscum though. You might think he's scum but there's literally nothing that "confirms" him.

I don't think you know what "confirmed" means.

[Muffin]

Having a gun does not equal guilty.

We are still lynching shos.

Good point.

VOTE: wisdom

[Muffin]

Yeah the chances of you flipping town are pretty slim from where I'm sitting.

All you've done is repeat a mantra that you're obvtown and that there is evidence where none existed.

That's not town. Get lynched.

[Muffin]

thats how i play as town, mate. too bad,

Then you getting lynched won't hurt us much, I guess.

Are you type2 metagaming? Playing bad on purpose as town so that you can win more scumgames?

[Muffin]

Except I'm in no way playing bad.

You argued for Jackel-town as well as TF-town.

correctly pushed people like Toon and Flum and got them to show their true colors

And you're taking credit for a lynch you weren't on and actively fought against. Where's the town motivation in that?

TF is just typical mislynch fodder.

The point that the shos wagon is shady is bullshit if you consider this is likely multiball. shos is the better lynch no matter what way you look at this.

Toon Fighter - 14 (Frightened inmate number3, guille2015, ArcAngel9, Bulbazak, Ankamius, farside22, Titus, Muffin, shos, Fluminator, DrippingGoofBall, eyestott, Awesome, Pirate Ika)

shos - 9 (theelkspeaks, Klingoncelt, ProHawk, Jackel98,

Wisdom

, Toon Fighter, Pine, BlizZard, Alchemist21)

No way buddy. Nice try.

Needs more Wisdom votes.

[Muffin]

STOP ARGUING WITH YOUR SCUMREADS, DIPSHIT

Good point.

People should consider my vote as being in limbo between Wisdom and Blizzard. I'd happily hammer either one.

[Muffin]

Snow here.

Yes, we have a gun. No, we can't kill people.

Shos is scum. Titus is sane. NS is town. We are a sane cop.

How do you know you have a gun?

[Muffin]

Day 1 2260

?

[Muffin]

We investigated NS night 1. We investigated Shos night 2 to confirm our suspicion and Titus' sanity.

Why the fuck would we counterclaim cops of questionable sanity with results unrelated to ours?

You didn't cop "your top scum read"?

VOTE: toon fighter

A good 90% sure that's the hammer, but I want to get a good night's rest before checking the numbers to be sure. (Because when I check the numbers, I'm prone to make an error at this time of night. )

Sooooooooo, flip and whatnot tomorrow.

VC 53

(final D1?)

:

Toon Fighter - 14 (Frightened inmate number3, guille2015, ArcAngel9, Bulbazak, Ankamius, farside22, Titus, Muffin, shos, Fluminator, DrippingGoofBall, eyestott, Awesome, Pirate Ika)

shos - 9 (theelkspeaks, Klingoncelt, ProHawk, Jackel98, Wisdom, Toon Fighter, Pine, BlizZard, Alchemist21)

Jackel98 - 2 (EddieFenix, alivechihiro)
alivechihiro - 1 (PeregrineV)

Not Voting: 1 (Nobody Special)

With 27 alive, it was 14 to lynch.

Day One's deadline was Thursday, January 29th, @ 4:15 PM PST.
Toon Fighter for the lynch.

I think it does. Ignoring one highly likely possibility to pursue another suggests scumbuddies to me, particularly when Awesome and Zar both ignore/handwaive it.

Doubly so when the narrative fits.

I'd also read the ika slot the same way but it's ika so...

FFS. Here's the current situation. There's a guilty result on our top scum read and there's a guilty result on one of our town reads from the same scum read who got a guilty result on them. Guess which one we want to lynch?

[Muffin]

well he is to me. And he will be to everyone when I flip.

another cop claim. This is beginning to look fake. it's like a last-resort wifom that fits with the results on him..

I don't think that that's a cop claim. I think that's Wisdom saying "Titus has an innocent on me, so I know she's sane, therefore her guilty on you must also be correct".

[Muffin]

And if PV faked his role entirely?

You're saying Prohawk was bussed?

That seems unlikely.

Any competent scum would know that bussing for towncred won't work in multiball. Also note that Prohawk was the 2nd dictator to flip. So unless PV's team is huge and powerful, I find it unlikely that he is scum.

[Muffin]

You and wisdom recognize me as town because you guys just got done playing scum with me and know what my scum game looks like, and this is not it.

I find this argument invalid - see my sig.

If you know what your scum game looks like and you know what your town game looks like, then you can simply make your scum game look like your town game.

[Muffin]

But why wasn't I blocked? I said at the end of day yesterday I was shooting bulbazack (and i had plans to!) so why didn't they block me? Either Bulbazack is scum without a role blocker. He's an SK who's bp. Or he's part of the hippie faction and fulminator healed him.

Or he's town and any scum faction with a roleblocker was like "lol go ahead he's not on our team"?

[Muffin]

Flipping him gets a scum lynched, me conftown, possible info on blizzard, lots of potential scum on my wagon/ in the neighborhood. How is that "close to nothing"?

Let's say shos flips scum.

How do we know you're not a godfather? How do we know Titus is sane?

[Muffin]

I think given multiple cops, multiple millers, and multiple factions: a GF flipped already makes additional GFs more likely, not less.

My point though is that Wisdom needs to erase the prefix "conf" from his vocabularly entirely. First shos is confscum. Now Wisdom thinks he's conftown.

That's not a fucking town mindset. It's a scum mindset and he needs to fucking stop or get lynched.

[Muffin]

a second gf is remote

In your opinion.

[Muffin]

And who is in this neighborhood that people keep talking about?

bulbazak, FIN3, shos, and myself.

[Muffin]

wut

[Muffin]

no u

[Muffin]

we have invested so much of our collective time into securing

a very-likely-town read on shos

.

we don't want to let it go without a fight

and at the same time i don't think we want to massclaim.

...this is page 200 and post 4975 and day 3 should not go any further.

i'm sorry shos.

vote shos

[Muffin]

Not sure how/why a town player hammers someone that they're reading as "very likely town".

That's fucked up, I hope Awesome includes you in a pool of potential stab targets.

NOOOOOOOOOOO! I MISSED THE 200 PAGETOP!

rekt

[Muffin]

However I told you before, the fact you pushed a fascist and a dictator doesn't stop you from being communist or hippie or SK.

Didn't you try to claim towncred for pushing people that flipped scum? Yes, yes you did. You defended yourself using the inverse of the logic you're attacking with right now.

[Muffin]

i would lynch titus, klingon, or blizzard in a heartbeat given the chance. i've said this multiple times before as well
but today the only wagons anyone cares about is my town neighbor and a usually capable town player
and i fucking hate it

i want today to be over

i want today to be over

i just want

i want today to be over.

fuck

can we just
end the day

i want today to end right now
but i don't want to lynch shos or wisdom fuck fuck fuck

Yes I read all those. Not sure what your point is? I don't see town motivation in hammering a "very-likely-town" read, no matter how much you want the day to end. Just replace out if you're upset?

[Muffin]

Not sure how/why a town player hammers someone that they're reading as "very likely town".

That's fucked up, I hope Awesome includes you in a pool of potential stab targets.

and yet you screamed at me in the hood whenever i suggested we're not all town just because you and bulba were screaming we are

awesome had better not fucking stab me i'll stab you back

If by "screamed at" you mean "calmly asked why" then sure, okay. What's the town motivation for misrepping me here?

[Muffin]

Didn't you try to claim towncred for pushing people that flipped scum?

Nope. You were arguing I have done nothing and I proved you wrong. I didn't argue it makes me town, and besides it was just a part of a list of things I've done.

No I was arguing you've done nothing that was pro-town.

[Muffin]

end the day isn't for the better

I mean if the rest of us neighbours are wrong and shos flips scum then sure, it's a p good outcome but you've said both here and in the hood that you were townreading him so I don't see why you wouldn't just replace out if the day was so intolerable. I don't mind looking like an idiot newbie who got led around by the nose but I 100% do not comprehend the decision to hammer a strong townread.

[Muffin]

Only bulba and fin3 haven't claimed in this thread.

I might consider posting all of fin3's posts here if it won't get me modkilled and if shos flips town.

[Muffin]

I mean claim what those mechanics and this information you've withheld that supposefly make all of you town are.
You should also paraphrase everything that has happened in your neighborhood.

I might. That will depend on my general mood tomorrow.

[Muffin]

Anyone who was townreading Wisdom and buying his "I'm so obvtown" horseshit needs to apologize for that incredibly frustrating day yesterday. I cannot

believe

you all got cajoled into lynching shos.

We were all fucking telling you he was town.

I don't buy Blizzard's excuses one iota.

VOTE: blizzard

[Muffin]

Mollie/Ika slot needs vigged.

[Muffin]

Yes that would be an acceptable vig target also.

I would prefer it if you copped FIN3 tonight. I would be very interested in your result.

[Muffin]

And by "that" I mean "NS".

[Muffin]

actually can we hear about ALL of bulba's protections from the hood? I want to add that to my notes. I am assuming he protected shos n1 but clarity wld be a blessing.

He kept his word and protected Awesome N1, a choice that some of us strongly disagreed with.

At my and shos' urging he protected PV N2 despite not being fully caught up.

He protected PV last night as well.

[Muffin]

and loosely inmates thing.

I'm not necessarily convinced FIN3 is town but I would prefer they not claim until after the others.

[Muffin]

VC 53

(final D1?)

:

Toon Fighter

- 14 (Frightened inmate number3, guille2015,

ArcAngel9

,

Bulbazak

, Ankamius, farside22, Titus, Muffin,

shos

,

Fluminator

,

DrippingGoofBall

, eyestott, Awesome, Pirate Ika)

shos

- 9 (theelkspeaks,

Klingoncelt

,

ProHawk

,

Jackel98

,

Wisdom

,

Toon Fighter

,

Pine

, BlizZard,

Alchemist21

)

Jackel98 - 2 (EddieFenix, alivechihiro)
alivechihiro - 1 (PeregrineV)

Not Voting: 1 (Nobody Special)

With 27 alive, it was 14 to lynch.

ProHawk

- 11 (PeregrineV,

shos

,

Wisdom

, Muffin, guille2015, Frightened inmate number3,

alivechihiro

, theelkspeaks,

Klingoncelt

,

Fluminator

, Pirate Ika)

shos

- 5 (

DrippingGoofBall

, BlizZard,

EddieFenix

, Titus, Impossibear)

Klingoncelt - 1 (ProHawk)
Fluminator - 1 (Ankamius)

Not Voting - 3 (Bulbazak, Nobody Special, Awesome)

11 to lynch.

vote shos

I'm almost certain that's the hammer.
(Sadface, you will get flavor for D3 before N2. )

3-14

:

(Final D3)

shos

- 9 (

Wisdom

, Titus, BlizZard,

alivechihiro

,

Klingoncelt

, guille2015, Pirate Ika, Nobody Special, Frightened inmate number3)

Wisdom

- 4 (Ankamius, Muffin,

Bulbazak

,

shos

)

BlizZard - 1 (PeregrineV)
Frightened inmate number3 - 1 (theelkspeaks)

Not Voting - 2 (Awesome, Impossibear)

9 to lynch.
shos to be lynched.

For my own edification and later reference, here are the hammers and counterwagons with flips

[Muffin]

My role name just says miller, but I'm specifically told in my role PM that I appear guilty to all cops.

Can you elaborate please? Does it use the word guilty and the phrase "all cops"?

[Muffin]

What's the whole list of your results?

N1: NS - Town
N2: Shos - Not Town
N3: Impossibear - Not Town

Soooo....

You're insane then? Sweet.

VOTE: NS

There is literally no chance of this town lynching anyone other than Blizzard today. You might as well bus for towncred.

[Muffin]

Also, for any townies who might be reading:

Take note that back in the 1500s Blizzard was townreading Awesome and confirmed 2 or 3 times that they accept the sk-miller claim in later posts. Now consider that in 2724 Blizzard claims that shos' guilty on Awesome doesn't make sense. If they accept the miller claim why does the guilty from not make sense, especially given Titus herself admits questionable sanity? That does not seems like a town mindset, especially because they make specific note of the questionable sanity as having been a reason to doubt things much later in 4654.

Then in (I think) 2730 they try the same tired "confscum" horseshit that Wisdom was slinging.

Much later Blizzard tries to sell shos and PV (who is painfully obvtown at that point) as buddies. Not town.

4602 seems like projecting. Arguing their result was messed with after a town flip is pretty much exactly what they are attempting right now.

And, IMHO this is the clincher:

FFS, Wisdom is town!

are you willing to take his place on being lynched instead cus thats what it kinda is atm....

Go ahead. If you're not going to listen to us you might as well lynch us.

But for comic effect:

And LOL at the Godfather theories. We've reached a point where people are actually pushing to lynch a player who's been confirmed as town by one cop, who's confirmed to be sane, and defending a player who has been confirmed as scum by two cops, also sane. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

[Muffin]

^ for the record that player who Blizzard was defending flipped scum.

And the player that is "confirmed" scum flipped town.

[Muffin]

Shos was more than likely paranoid.

Nah I think it's obvious for everyone to see that Shos was sane and got a guilty on awesome due to the sk-miller aspect (which you yourselves have accepted).

Two cops: One sane, one insane. Plus a cop for each faction. Seems about right for this setup.

[Muffin]

I would prefer an ika vig though. If he's scum with two extra lives, that's dead meat to us.

I've been thinking for a while that x-shot BP SK wouldn't shock me here.

[Muffin]

Mod: Why is there an exclamation point by Muffin's name on the start page?

I was warned for talking about ongoing games in a minor way.

[Muffin]

Mollie, do you think there is scum among the millers? Who are you scumreading?

Suppose I am right on 3 communists, 1 dictator, 1 hippie 1fascist and an SK. Who is each and why?

I really don't think this is possible.

13 scum means that after a single townie death, town becomes the "uninformed minority". Even given this is "hilariously unbalanced" I don't see any way that that's the setup unless town really have no chance to win at all.

Plus if there are 7 scum left the game is over.

[Muffin]

You really think there are 5 town and 7 scum left?

[Muffin]

Where did the mod say scum were in the majority day 3?

[Muffin]

I'm so tired of this. Guys, lynch bear. They're scum. We are a sane cop. The remaining scum have every reason to kill us. In fact, some of them probably are pushing for our lynch the strongest. There is no way we will survive the night. It's already dangerous to scum having Titus, theelk, PV and God knows what else around, they really can't afford having another cop alive. With the right investigations and kills, we could win tomorrow.

I literally can't think of a reason to keep you alive. Can you help me?

You're a sane cop who said a flipped scum player was confirmed town, and a flipped town player was confirmed scum. You're negative utility to this town. If you're actually playing to a town wincon (doubt it) you'd see that your lynch will do more for us than keeping you alive.

Chances of you copping someone that will be of any use tonight? Zero. You'll just cop someone that's not under any suspicion right now and give an irrelevant result so you can hide behind WIFOM just like you did today when you copped impossibear.

[Muffin]

1 MOAR VOTE AND THEN WE WILL HAMMAH!!!

Lyncher???

[Muffin]

UNVOTE:

Not because I don't think blizzard is the lynch but because I don't like the way ika "needs" the hammer.

[Muffin]

VOTE: blizzard

hahaha no we're not lynching impossibear. we're lynching blizzard.

there is literally no way we're not.

[Muffin]

We didn't cop Wisdom, though.

Therefore calling him conftown is even dumber.

So we thinking Wisdom was town

Don't lie. You said he was conftown.

Plus, you'd be able to possibly confirm we're not lying about what we're flipping if you'd lynch impossibear.

Doesn't confirm shit. Scum would be bussing the shit out of their teammate in your situation.

And because you'd be losing another PR for being dense.

But losing a PR that's been negative utility all game would be a positive outcome, not a negative.

[Muffin]

(assuming you're even a cop, which I doubt)

[Muffin]

what flipped scum are you talking about?

They were claiming wisdom was confirmed town, and now they're hastily trying to backpedal.

[Muffin]

If by some miracle blizzard flips town, Tammy can vig me if she wants.

[Muffin]

Muffin. Is. Scum. Those arguments do not come from a town perspective. Typical bulshiter scum. Don't let him fool you. Kill it, with ice.

-Snow out.

Oh I'm scum now?

Trying to maintain your scintillating .000 batting average this game or are you just scum reading me because you're backed into a corner?

[Muffin]

Muffin. Is. Scum. Those arguments do not come from a town perspective. Typical bulshiter scum. Don't let him fool you. Kill it, with ice.

-Snow out.

Oh I'm scum now?

Trying to maintain your scintillating .000 batting average this game or are you just scum reading me because you're backed into a corner?

Blizzard is lynched. We are in twilight.

He still maintains he is town sane cop. He posted a theory on Awesome being a dictator. Your thoughts?

Can we get a prod on PV in night phase?

Ah okay, phone posting so I'm just skimming.

I've been flip flopping on Awesome all game. I could see them being scum but not a dictator as I don't believe there are 3 per team

[Muffin]

You ever done a VCA as scum, Titus?

[Muffin]

quotes are a bit out of order but i have made my point

i thought i said somewhere out loud that i would give them night 2, then if no kill from them showed or their kill was on a general townread they would die... maybe it was in the hood after all

Yeah confirming this.

[Muffin]

Fin3, why did you wait until n4 to shoot Awesome?

ankamius killed awesome.
i shot guille last night.

i'm 1/4 for scumkills which is annoying but aa9, dgb, and guille were all scummy as hell so i'm at least glad they haven't been around to be mislynched.

Blah. My question remains...why did you not shoot awesome?

Both of us figured Awesome would do it. Neither of us considered a roleblock still in play.

[Muffin]

Why not? Elk and celt both claimed rbed. PV claimed RBed yesterday, and was universally townread...

What exactly are you hoping this line of questioning will result in?

Are you going to start telling me what I should have been thinking, with the benefit of hindsight?

Let me pre-empt you by saying "that's what we were thinking, if you disagree, deal with it and move on".

[Muffin]

Neither of us considered a roleblock still in play.

[Muffin]

lynching me will make it so town has a 0% chance at winning

How do you figure? You say there's likely only a single solo scum left. If we lynch you and the claimed vigs shoot town then in the morning it's probably 4 town v 1 scum.

[Muffin]

She is working off my communist theory.

I will agree that I was wrong and you were right about 3-player scum teams in light of Blizzard's flip, but there aren't any unclaimed kills, so unless FIN3 is a Communist I don't see how this is possible.

[Muffin]

Meh, I'm starting to think Bear knows that it's curtains and this is a pre-emptive attempt to save his skin.

Claiming that if we lynch him we lose? We've lynched scum 75% of the time. Only a single mislynch.

I do not believe that mastin would run a game where town is required to have 100% scum lynch rate in order to not auto-lose the game.

[Muffin]

In other words, I think Bear knows he is the last remaining scum and this is an attempt to have town self-destruct and maybe he can survive to mylo or something.

[Muffin]

Yeah I'm getting mighty tired of someone swinging "hilariously unbalanced" around every time anyone says something is unlikely.

Totally unbalanced games aren't actually any fun. At all.

The game is at least somewhat balanced. I think you know this.

At the very least, if it turns out we had to hit scum every single night to even have a chance of winning I'm going to be upset post-game.

[Muffin]

Like why bother doing any analysis at all if every attempt to rule something out just comes back "hilariously unbalanced".

Might as well just randomlynch every day.

VOTE: impossibear let's fucking do this

[Muffin]

all factions have equally terrible odds.

If all factions have "equally terrible odds" then surprise surprise the game is balanced

[Muffin]

@mastin:

When's the deadline?

I know I need to dig in here and read (a LOT) but it's honestly not going to happen until at least Saturday.

Ok. Take your time.

NS is literally always useless. He won't ever catch up.

[Muffin]

Seems predicated on Ankamius being town.

[Muffin]

Inb4 "hilarious unbalanced"

[Muffin]

UNVOTE:

Titus can you please outline your master plan for me, clearly and explicitly, without omitting words and stuff so it's very clear what is intented?

If it's a good plan and scum actually can't win, then I'll sheep you.

[Muffin]

Hi Titus I'm reading your master plan. Will respond soon, busy weekend.

[Muffin]

Was that the hammer?

[Muffin]

I didn't get to it due to busy freakin' weekend, but this was my concern from the start that Titus' plan does not take into account Titus being scum.

[Muffin]

You aren't confirmed town. Don't even try that shit with me.

The only thing you're confirmed to be is a cop.

[Muffin]

5994 sets off warning bells though

[Muffin]

Ugh, I hate these scenarios. All my strong reads are dead and I can feel the eyes of everyone in the dead topic judging me as I inevitably screw this up.

[Muffin]

Just because it helps me to have these all in one place:

VC 53

(final D1?)

:

Toon Fighter

- 14 (

Frightened inmate number3

,

guille2015

,

ArcAngel9

,

Bulbazak

, Ankamius,

farside22

, Titus, Muffin,

shos

,

Fluminator

,

DrippingGoofBall

,

eyestott

,

Awesome

, Pirate Ika)

shos

- 9 (

theelkspeaks

,

Klingoncelt

,

ProHawk

,

Jackel98

,

Wisdom

,

Toon Fighter

,

Pine

,

BlizZard

,

Alchemist21

)

Jackel98

- 2 (

EddieFenix

,

alivechihiro

)

alivechihiro

- 1 (

PeregrineV

)

Not Voting: 1 (Nobody Special)

With 27 alive, it was 14 to lynch.

ProHawk

- 11 (

PeregrineV

,

shos

,

Wisdom

, Muffin,

guille2015

,

Frightened inmate number3

,

alivechihiro

,

theelkspeaks

,

Klingoncelt

,

Fluminator

, Pirate Ika)

shos

- 5 (

DrippingGoofBall

,

BlizZard

,

EddieFenix

, Titus, Impossibear)

Klingoncelt

- 1 (

ProHawk

)

Fluminator

- 1 (Ankamius)

Not Voting - 3 (Bulbazak, Nobody Special, Awesome)

11 to lynch.

vote shos

I'm almost certain that's the hammer.
(Sadface, you will get flavor for D3 before N2. )

3-14

:

(Final D3)

shos

- 9 (

Wisdom

, Titus,

BlizZard

,

alivechihiro

,

Klingoncelt

,

guille2015

, Pirate Ika, Nobody Special,

Frightened inmate number3

)

Wisdom

- 4 (Ankamius, Muffin,

Bulbazak

,

shos

)

BlizZard

- 1 (

PeregrineV

)

Frightened inmate number3

- 1 (

theelkspeaks

)

Not Voting - 2 (Awesome, Impossibear)

9 to lynch.
shos to be lynched.

4-12

:

(Final D4)

BlizZard

- 7 (

Frightened inmate number3

, Titus,

guille2015

,

Impossibear

, Muffin, Nobody Special)

Impossibear

- 1 (

BlizZard

)

Frightened inmate number3

- 1 (

theelkspeaks

)

Not Voting - 3 (Awesome, PeregrineV, Ankamius)

Apologies for the delay, but,

VOTE: Impossibear

^That was the hammer. Hold, please.

5-10

:

(Final D5 votecount)

Impossibear

- 5 (Pirate Ika,

Frightened inmate number3

, Ankamius, Nobody Special, Titus)

Frightened inmate number3

- 2 (

Impossibear

,

theelkspeaks

)

Not Voting - 1 (Muffin)

5 to lynch.

Impossibear was lynched.

[Muffin]

How sure are we that it's a dictator left and not a hippie, making it 2-3-4 and if there's an SK 1-2-3-4 which I find rather aesthetically pleasing.

It actually kinda matters which team remains.

[Muffin]

Explain please?

It matters because it informs my reads based on claimed/known PRs and flips.

[Muffin]

You know. I'm talking with mollie and that makes sense with the fact we have fascist/hippie cop.

If we run with your idea though muffin who fits the profile of final hippie/sk.

Well if there's an SK it's Ank. NS is pretty much conftown in my book so that leaves you or titus as the remaining groupscum.

Titus/impossi interactions also make sense as hippie/hippie (esp how titus was so adimaent on stopping impossi lynch) shes always aginst bussing so it could of been a ploy setup

Can you quote the interactions you're referring to here?

[Muffin]

You know. I'm talking with mollie and that makes sense with the fact we have fascist/hippie cop.

If we run with your idea though muffin who fits the profile of final hippie/sk.

Well if there's an SK it's Ank. NS is pretty much conftown in my book so that leaves you or titus as the remaining groupscum.

Titus/impossi interactions also make sense as hippie/hippie (esp how titus was so adimaent on stopping impossi lynch) shes always aginst bussing so it could of been a ploy setup

Can you quote the interactions you're referring to here?

[Muffin]

Only true mafia pros double post.

Get on my level, scrubs.

<<< And only true mafia mods leave said double posts for entirely-not-selfish-honest reasons. >>>

[Muffin]

kling was enacting the kill that night.

mollie just helped me crack it.

kling also though about sending fruit to titus on day 1 but instead did it to us. could it be she was trying to jsut sent fruits to her bussies but instead be able to enact a kill?

what

[Muffin]

if you dont mind can i do it tonight?

I'll iso those two together but please point me at what you're seeing as well when you get back.

[Muffin]

K I think I've got this right. I guess it comes down to whether or not we think "pulverized" is Hippie or Dictator kill flavour.

Toon Fighter,

Fascist

Godfather

, Lynched Day One.
ProHawk,

Dictator

Jailkeeper

, Lynched Day Two.
shos,

Town

Cop

, Lynched Day Three.
BlizZard,

Fascist

Sane Cop

, Lynched Day Four.
Impossibear,

Hippie

Roleblocker

, Lynched Day Five.

FIN3's kills
ArcAngel9,

Town

Hippie Cop

, shot night one.
DrippingGoofBall,

Town

White Mage

, shot night two.
Klingoncelt,

Hippie

Fruit Vendor

, shot night three.
Awesome,

Town

Compulsive SK-Miller Vigilante

, killed night four.
theelkspeaks,

Town

Tracker

, shot and killed night five.

Likely these are the Fascist kills:
farside22,

Town

Bodyguard

, silenced night one.
EddieFenix,

Town

Fascist Cop

, silenced night two.
Bulbazak,

Town

Doctor

, silenced night three.

Ankamius' kills:
Jackel98,

Dictator

Rolecop

, killed night one.
Fluminator,

Hippie

Doctor

, stabbed and killed night two.
alivechihiro,

Town

Watcher

, killed night three.
guille2015,

Town

Macho Doctor

, shot night four.
theelkspeaks,

Town

Tracker

, shot and killed night five.

Awesome's kills:
(targeted shos N1 and blocked/whatevered)
Fluminator,

Hippie

Doctor

, stabbed and killed night two.
Wisdom,

Fascist

Ninja

, stabbed night three.

Hippie kills:
Alchemist21,

Vanilla Townie

, shredded into fertilizer night one.
PeregrineV,

Town

Gunsmith

, sliced in half night four.

Likely Dictator kill:
Pine,

Town

Communist Miller

, beaten to a bloody pulp night one.

Unknown:
Frightened inmate number3,

Town

Vigilante

, pulverized night five.

[Muffin]

Whoops, I STILL fucked those up. Swap Awesome's and guille's deaths.

[Muffin]

Anyways the point is I'm starting to think it's unlikely there's a Dictator left, as we haven't seen that kill flavour for days. So either they're

really

unlucky with their shots or they were no-killing (unlikely and sub-optimal play).

[Muffin]

If a team had a fourth scum, it would be the fascists.

Doubt this very much.

[Muffin]

if there's an SK 1-2-3-4

Awesome, Town Compulsive SK-Miller Vigilante, killed night four.

I am now biting my nails in anxiety.

[Muffin]

Time to ruminate.

Back later or tomorrow.

[Muffin]

#6099, So what, the hippies get 4 players and two kills... ummm no. I am thinking that Impossibear blocked ika on night 2, he claims that scum shot him. Then night 3, his kill hits whoever the doctor healed. If he claims more bullet shots, it looks suspicious. Night 4, Impossibear blocks ika again. He claims another shot was used, but only after extensive prodding

How on earth did you conjure hippies getting 2 kills?

[Muffin]

@muffin

hi

[Muffin]

The more evidence that comes out, the more likely it is that the last scum is a dictator framer.

Titus, what is the dictator kill flavour?

[Muffin]

muffin you buys or got time to talk? i plan on going full stream of thoughts/ideas and need someone outside to bounce with me

Go for it. I will try to respond in timely fashion.

[Muffin]

reading

[Muffin]

does anythign not make sense/confusing?

I follow, that all makes sense to me from the POV of you as town.

[Muffin]

Pulverized most likely. It's the new one.

So you think they no-killed and/or were blocked 3 nights in a row?

What happened to the "beaten to a pulp" flavour?

[Muffin]

yep, working on it

[Muffin]

So, from my perspective:

Town:
Nobody Special - cleared by like 3 separate cop investigations, not going to entertain discussions of lynching him

Dunno:
Titus - cop
Ankamius - 1-shot bp vig/sk
Pirate Ika (pirate mollie+ika) - x-shot bp

If an SK exists it's Ank. Ignoring the cases where I get shot or lynched....

If we lynch PI the possibilities are:

Ank shoots NS	Ank shoots Titus
Scum likely shoots ank, who survives due to BP	Scum likely shoots ank, who survives due to BP
muffin/ank/titus remain	muffin/ns/ank remain
gameover if 2 scum	lynch ank ftw

If we lynch Ank the possibilities are:

Scum shoots titus	Scum shoots NS
muffin/PI/NS remain	muffin/titus/PI remain
lynch PI, win	trouble

If we lynch Titus the possibilities are

Ank shoots NS	Ank shoots PI
Scum shoots Ank, survives due to BP	Scum shoots Ank, Survives due to BP
muffin/PI/ank remain	muffin/titus/PI remain
gameover if 2 scum	trouble

There are a surprising number of combinations here. I've ignored the cases where scum doesn't shoot Ank because I think that that's sub-optimal play for scum.

[Muffin]

If we do lynch, it should be Ank.

I think all 3 of us are agreed on this point.

[Muffin]

Why isn't no lynch being considered?

Ank shoots a suspect. Scums shoot Ank. No lynch if Dictator dies not flip.

Scum doesn't have to shoot Ank though, they can shoot NS and then try to push for a mislynch the following day.

Lynching Ank benefits Dictator as Dictator then gets to pick lylo.

This is a legitimate point.

@Muffin, The Dictator being roleblocked/nking is exactly what I think happened which is part of the reason I am scumreading ika.

Of the players remaining in this game, I think every single one of us knows that it is sub-optimal to no-kill, especially in multiball. Unless someone was planning D1 to gambit for 3+ game days and try to win the WIFOM at the end, I just don't see that happening. Besides it's easier to just kill everyone than try to no-kill and hope they don't kill you.

[Muffin]

The more evidence that comes out, the more likely it is that the last scum is a dictator framer.

Titus, what is the dictator kill flavour?

Pulverized most likely. It's the new one.

Then who is Silenced?

[Muffin]

Yes mollie?

[Muffin]

The more evidence that comes out, the more likely it is that the last scum is a dictator framer.

Titus, what is the dictator kill flavour?

Pulverized most likely. It's the new one.

Then who is Silenced?

the fascists were the silencers!

Oh wait I got all mixed up.

[Muffin]

Considering how much evidence there is that I'm not an SK

I see almost none.

[Muffin]

Gonna be gone most of the weekend.

[Muffin]

Ika/Mollie do you think it's a dictator?

Because 2 dictator cops seems mega unlikely.

[Muffin]

What are those obvious reasons

[Muffin]

I feel like I've been buddied from several directions simultaneously this game day, and I find that concerning.

Not gonna be able to do anything substantial until I get home tomorrow; wifi here is super flaky and I keep getting disconnected.

[Muffin]

Caution! Titus is at L-1!

6-3

:

Titus -2 (Nobody Special, Pirate Ika)

Ankamius - 1 (Titus)

At deadline, Ankamius will be lynched.

oh

At deadline, Ankamius will be lynched.

how the fuck does that work

[Muffin]

I will just hammer. No point. Ank isn't self voting. Ika's not moving. I was hoping to one v one ika tomorrow.

GG town.

I was last dictator, not hippie.

My role pretty much trapped me. I needed a whole different composition to win here. Yet I shot ika twice. He did not die either time.

Two bp I thought was excessive. I knew I was immune to Hippie kill, so I figured ika was immune to mine. Hence commie because fascists et al were eliminated.

When communists did not flip, I was in a bad place. I knew Blizzard's anti wincon play was my only shot to win. You had to see framer or bus driver. There was none.

Ank being willing to hammer cleared him of being sk.

If Mollie was not here, this likely would have worked. Good job on doing good cop bad cop guys. Ika had it right during the ProHawk debacle but was likely skipped as paranoia bc he was also raving I was not a cop.

Overall, very well played and I am sorry for the frustration.

VOTE: Titus

#nevertrustthecops

Well, uhhh.

I was really really hoping I didn't get put into a situation where I had to choose between you and Pirate Ika so, um, thanks?

That was a really unexpected turn of events.

[Muffin]

Titus are you actually a cop? TBH I was leaning the other way thinking two dictator cops seemed really unlikely, especially given the weird role PM shenanigans with shos. Assuming that wasn't just you BSing, otherwise well done.

[Muffin]

Or I could shoot NS and depend on you. Bleh.

Yeah, you+me+PI in LYLO was pretty much my nightmare scenario in this game. If you go back to my post where I made those outcome charts I labeled those outcomes as "trouble" as in "I'm fucked".

Setup spec led me to believe two scum cops on the same team was unlikely.

I felt like Mollie/Ika went full buddy mode on me after I expressed doubts on you just before Night 5 so it made me paranoid they were scum.

Who knows? You just might have got away with it.

[Muffin]

Pulverized most likely. It's the new one.

So you think they no-killed and/or were blocked 3 nights in a row?

So which was it, Titus? Unlucky shots?

[Muffin]

does anythign not make sense/confusing?

I follow, that all makes sense to me from the POV of you as town.

Learning opportunity. I should have trusted this instinct instead of second guessing.

[Muffin]

Truth be told, mollie was the one who would not let me throw out an obscure theory and that my reachout to you was trying to show you the transparency of my thoughts.

Yeah and I totally got that transparency. It was a good play on your part. A player who was more confident than me in his ability to scumhunt would have seen the light and not

second

third

fourth

fifth-guessed themself.

[Muffin]

PAGETOP

Reported.

[Muffin]

(not really)

but still, you should wait for the flip before you do that :O

[Muffin]

I did so by PM already but I need to publicly apologize to Awesome for being an asshole earlier.

[Muffin]

So, how did I play? I feel like I'm always doing something wrong, getting myself dead D/N1.

You were too ambiguous, I think. Without going back and reading your ISO, my dominant recollection is that you posted a lot of "this is scum. or bad town." which doesn't ring like town to me. Don't be afraid to take strong positions as scum, as long as you can back them up. Townies disagree and argue all the time: look at PI vs the neighbours as perfect example.

[Muffin]

thanks mastin