Drawn on Arrival: The Movie: The Game (GAME OVER!)

[Heartless]

</3

what are you moping about? she talked quite a bit about you

[Heartless]

hi estival. let me walk you through the tedious shit so we can get to the good stuff.

my name is antihero and my hydra partner is telltaleheart. if you have signatures turned on, you will see links to our mains in our sig. alternatively, you can click on our profile and see the same information. OR you can go to the "members" page, go to the search feature, and search "antihero" or "telltaleheart."
a nifty guide to determine who's posting: if the grammar isn't completely fucked and there's proper capitalization and punctuation, it's tth. otherwise it's me.

now, re: dissonance: the only read we currently full-blown disagree on is reina (you'll also see me call him gamma, b/c that's apparently his main). as far as hydras go, that's pretty damn good for a 23 player game.

[Heartless]

Why is honeybee a loser? I looked at her ISO and she had a couple of "will catch up" or "hard to get into this" posts which always ping me as off as well as the general lurkering.

"loser" is one of the idiosyncrasies of my vocabulary in mafia games. when i call something a "loser vote" or a "loser wagon" that means that it's a wagon that doesn't have at least a decent chance of succeeding or have any indication of going anywhere.

now that you've told me a little more about the vote, i have to ask you what you think is more offensive about honey bee than the other lurkers. i actually like a couple honey bee posts, so i'm curious.

Also why don't you tell me what your reads of theamateur and aristophanes are?

both town reads

Although let me ask you how certain you are about heartless as town. I read the seraphim in ISO which was extremely long and seraphim talks and talks and talks but it seemed like there was some reason he wasn't 100% sure about heartless's claim. He did change to heartless being scum being slim I think but I'm not seeing the confirm town for anyone at this point since its a bastard setup. Except the dead of course.

even a cursory look at the seraphim iso will tell you pretty quickly what his issue w/ us was. you should...like... read it and form an opinion for yourself. it shouldn't take too long.

[Heartless]

Post 317
Post 880

[Heartless]

wrong one, i meant to say 316

[Heartless]

since i've only got a narrow window of sobriety left, i'll end it on a reads list

town: 4nxi3ty, Aristophanes, Bookitty, Boonskiies, Cheetory6, Honey bee, Jackel98, Marquis, mastin2, pirate mollie, Psyche, Reina, Seraphim, theamatuer, Varsoon

scum: Shaft

pending stuff or tth can take care of these: BROseidon, estival, PeregrineV, Gilgamesh
tth can seriously take care of these: Flubbernugget, Hostile Intent

as it stands my "people of interest" (to steal tth's terminology) can be shaft, bro, estival, and.......... perv...

yeah, that seems to round that menagerie pretty well i think

alright, descending into alcohol induced madness now, seeya' later

[Heartless]

/shrug

if i let anything slip through the net tth will catch it

gives me slack

do you disagree w/ any of them in particular?

[Heartless]

kinda' going out on a limb for honey bee and jackal, but i'm actually p solid w/ all those

[Heartless]

hm.....

i thought sticking his neck out like that by itself was kind of town

[Heartless]

oh shit...

i see what you're saying

[Heartless]

that is a very large town list coming from paranoid freak you

You're getting further than me. I asked Anti why he was townreading Marquis and he just laughed at me.

[Heartless]

Here's your hydra dissonance, estival.

town: 4nxi3ty, Aristophanes,

Bookitty

,

Boonskiies

, Cheetory6,

Honey bee

,

Jackel98

,

Marquis

,

mastin2

, pirate mollie, Psyche,

Reina

, Seraphim, theamatuer,

Varsoon

Bolded are reads I either disagree with or don't think the evidence is there for.

[Heartless]

I will also
VOTE: BROseidon

[Heartless]

Here's your hydra dissonance, estival.

town: 4nxi3ty, Aristophanes,

Bookitty

,

Boonskiies

, Cheetory6,

Honey bee

,

Jackel98

,

Marquis

,

mastin2

, pirate mollie, Psyche,

Reina

, Seraphim, theamatuer,

Varsoon

Bolded are reads I either disagree with or don't think the evidence is there for.

can you plz walk me through why you think honeybee might be scum but anti has them as town?

For Honey Bee, the overall evidence from the ISO isn't really enough to make a determination outside of a "gut guess," which is what Anti's doing. The Aristophanes vote in Post 976 is a terrible vote though the reasoning Honey Bee gave could plausibly come from a town mindset. I think it's entirely possible for Honey Bee to be scum because of the way he went about the ika vote. To begin with, it's a late vote on the wagon; it occupies the 10th position of 14 (Post 679). It came at a time when the ika wagon had clear momentum towards the finish line and scum would have no reason to stay off at that point. There's also Honey Bee's criticism of the wagon in Post 415, when it was still at five votes and competing with theamateur and Jackal98 wagons, one of which he was supporting (Jackal98). It's circumstantial evidence, but he does fit the profile of an ika teammate and that can't be ignored.

In other news, I might have been too hasty with the estival read and retract the scum read.

I'm not sure what this has to do with whether I think mollie has a brain or not, but I always aim to please.
UNVOTE:

[Heartless]

Heartless seems to be the Big Dog or Cerebrus so why would Seraphim as scum go against him when he's got so much support?

Spoiler:

We got the PM that told us about farside's invention right before the mod did the flips and unlocked the thread. It's conceivable that Seraphim got such a PM telling him he was demotivated at day break

and

he didn't use an action.

[Heartless]

For the record, I was demotivated last night which means roleblock maybe? I didn't use any actions.

VOTE: theamatuer

The party continues.

Actually the way this is worded makes me think the demotivate was possibly a day action, depending on when

exactly

he got the demotive PM.
Coincidentally the way this is worded also blows a hole in your "he got his lies mixed up" theory, Cheetory. He was claiming no action

and

the demotivate in the same post.

[Heartless]

You have to realize tho those are two different types of things. One of those is an item, the other is a modifier. How can you modify something that didn't happen?

Well it's not

entirely

clear what the time frame he's referring to is here. Does it mean Seraphim was targeted by the demotivate

last night

and can't use actions

tonight

? Or does it mean the demotivate and disabled actions occur on the same night?

[Heartless]

go go gadget shaft wagon

VOTE: shaft

[Heartless]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

not really, bro

[Heartless]

@Heartless

,
Can you explain to me why you were okay with pressure on Sera dropping?
I'm looking at your ISO and I don't get it.
Why is he town now?
Also, what's your stance on gilgamesh at this point?

>mostly, the self-vote after the mod's answer and the recent stuff. also i'm a sucker for ate.
>my stance is to let tth deal with him because fuck it

[Heartless]

you're claiming supersaint?

[Heartless]

I already kind of want to start crying myself as well gauge my eyeballs with a very dull butter knife and then rip out my own intestines and hang myself with them.

Anti... what did I tell you about hacking mollie's account?

[Heartless]

Reina,

Spoiler:

And Bookitty yes most females do have such drama, even on this site which is why the LOL and it didn't even involve me which is why your naivety is sweet and funny. I'm not terribly evil in RL either but if a basic bitch messes with me then she's going to be put down. It must be nice to never have been part of the cliquery.

mebbe they crying at how terribad at mafia you are I mean I have only known you 5 minutes and I already kind of want to start crying myself as well gauge my eyeballs with a very dull butter knife and then rip out my own intestines and hang myself with them.

the only 1 who is me dramatic and emotional is you which is ironic.

this is a bad cw on an unlikeable player to the beautiful scum lynch on shaft who i am pretty sure he is scum for how he is acting in our hood. I am giving him 20 minutes to do something amazing and then I am going to outline why this is such a glorious lynch.

cheery if you do not stop tunneling I will knock the shit out of you.

Mollie

Mollie

Cheery's argument is boringish (although personally I think it's correct too) but estival is actually obviously scum and I am SUPER RIDICULOUSLY confident about this.

Read over the page of the game (and the next page too I think) where estival reacts to jackal's saying he's a townie with information and that he thinks estival is scum.

-estival saw that and thought that jackal claimed information about him.
-estival then immediately goes and doesn't immediately say that 'jackal is scum because he said this about me and its wrong', but attacks jackal not voting one of the 3 major wagons in a way to discredit that information.

-afterwards I say that I think estival is very likely scum and he reacts the same way to me, immediately saying that the way I'm attacking him and not paying attention to jackal is EITHER anti-town or because I'm scum, and I very strongly think this was to discredit me as well. (because it sure isn't because he thinks I'm scum when he's explicitly stating I could be either one)

Estival is verrrry clearly trying to attack someone for other reasons than what he's saying he's attacking them for, and that's 100% newbie-scum behavior.

She responded exactly the same way to us near her entrance, so this seems to be a pattern.
What's the baseline you're working from here?

[Heartless]

Reina, clarification of what I mean.

Spoiler: Series of Posts I was Referring to

I did not particularly care for estival's entrance. :S

Heartless, really? Why not?

Heartless is a hydra? There's something off about their voice or tone. Or one of them.

This seems to be a regular way she responds to accusers. How do you rule out a play style idiosyncrasy?

[Heartless]

mollie, are you townreading Bookitty? Why?

[Heartless]

mollie, are you townreading Bookitty? Why?

she is in the town pile for the time being. is it just her entrance on d1 or is there more to it than that.

There are things that are

just

off.

She's going to great lengths to talk about how much she believes us about farside's invention and that's making me paranoid. There's also the recent behavior around the swirling Shaft and estival wagons. She's been working with you this whole time with her votes, which would make sense if you were town reading each other and trying to work more efficiently at game solving. Given that, it's weird she didn't acknowledge the Shaft wagon you're championing and went straight for a policy lynch vote on estival (Post 1833). That's an anomaly.

Another thing that really pinged me was the way she responded to Antihero a while back in Post 1319. When Anti outlined vague gut suspicion of her, she went

straight

for Anti's weak spot: guilt. One way I've seen scum try to shake Anti off their trail is to play on his shame and make him feel like a dick for pushing them. Irritatingly he usually backs off, especially if the person is question happens to have two X chromosomes . The most recent example where I had this problem was with Anti and Titus in Open 581. That game made me go on an hour long tirade about which parts of his brain he was thinking with and why he was falling for Titus' stupid AtE. I thought he learned his lesson, but I guess old habits die hard.

If Bookitty has experience with Anti or his hydras, which she indicated she did in Post 1553, she knows which of his buttons to push. The paranoid part of me says it's a manipulative ploy.

[Heartless]

@Heartless:

I have been trying to figure this game out. I'm not sure why that would ping you but I honestly don't care. What you said made sense and I've explained several times why I believed you about Farside based both on the events we know for sure and my own impression of Farside's play.

Mollie was right about Ika and that firmed up a previous gut townread I had on her. Your claim and my belief that you were targeted by bulletproof scum last night -- that along with your play Day One was my reason for townreading you. I haven't been secretive or provided trumped up reasons for my reads.

I hate it when I make an effort in a game and then people point to that as a reason to scumread me. In this game, I am pretty sure I'm not going to be lynched regardless of vague gutreads from you or anyone else. I don't understand what you want to push me on; I'm providing all the information I can at every point that I can. What do you want me to respond to? I had no idea why Shaft was being pushed until Mollie clued us in about her neighbourhood; I thought it was another lurker lynch. Why would I immediately sheep a wagon I didn't understand? Yes, Mollie is a town read; that doesn't make her infallible. I agreed with her about Ika for reasons I can't yet talk about, but I never agreed to proxy my vote to her for the whole game.

*MRPH*

You're doing it again! >:(
This isn't some blind rage against you and I'm not just making these posts for the sake of being a bitch and making waves. Reina implied this a while back when I was questioning him and you're doing it now too.
I'll ask you the same thing I asked Reina. What do you think is inherently scummy about the responses? How do you distinguish this from someone who's just defensive?

As far as I recall I have one completed game with Anti in which I was scum. You can verify this with him. Scum won that game. I don't recall getting any special treatment and I surely didn't see the behaviour you're accusing him of exhibiting. I'm not doubting you that he's done that; I'm saying you're making all kinds of assumptions without any real basis for them imo.

Hon.
I've known Anti for a

long

time outside the context of this game.

Inside

the context of forum mafia, I've had 7 completed games in this hydra with him. I know a thing or two about what makes this man tick.

Did you ever read my ISO? I said I'd be happy for you to do that. So far your argument is that I'm not sheeping Mollie enough somehow and that I was fluttering my eyelashes at Anti. Guilty of the first, for sure, but I plead innocent to the second.

What I don't understand is the read progression. You said a while ago you were far from sold on the estival case and the only thing that's changed just recently is her showy meltdown. There's a lot of spaces the my brain can't fill in for the logic chain.
I also didn't accuse you of flirting with Anti. That's a completely separate and very annoying issue that I've also encountered in Heartless games, but it's not what I'm talking about here. What I'm talking about here is emotional manipulation.

[Heartless]

well I am falling for shaft's aTe in the hood which is very mild but he sounds so defeatist it is making me feel bad. so i think it is more that anti genuinely doesn't want to be a dick to some1 as likeable as boo. can you point me to the posts where she did that tho?

Post 1318 and the subsequent exchange between Anti and Boo is what I'm talking about.

It's possible that what you're saying is true, but I can just rattle off a list of the series of fights we've had in our non-scum games and who they were over. In Chosen Mafia, it was over ETL. In Pushing the Boundaries, it was over goodmorning. In C9++, it was over you and Nacho. In Enemy of My Enemy, it was over droog. In Making Friends, it was over Titus. Only ETL in Chosen Mafia ended up being town. That's one for four; Anti does not have a good track record here.

Even in one of our scum games

we had a fight over who the SK was. It was obviously mastin, but Anti kept insisting to the bitter end it wasn't because mastin hit all the right heartstrings.

[Heartless]

Heartless has to believe that a bulletproof or a doctor was responsible for the survival of whomever shot them. Yet they seem to have abandoned this idea and are pushing suspicions elsewhere.

w/ 27 players and 4 kills at play, there's more than just a 1-shot bp + doc in kill stopping potential

[Heartless]

@ tth

it sounds like you and anti just differ on reads. I didn't flirt with him in our game I mean I signed all my posts "I love nacho" or "iln". it sounds like he just goes soft on the players he likes.

see, this is what i meant by "it's going to get worse"...

[Heartless]

ok fine 3 kills + ~random killing potential~. i doubt we're the only ones (pgo+supersaint just for us, probably more out there; think bombs, vengefuls, and shit)

when you design games, you don't necessarily plan for the sk to die early so they probably put in more protectives than just 1-shot bp+doc for every alignment.

[Heartless]

1 to 3 shot deal

keep goin' there's more

[Heartless]

MOLLIE WHAT ARE YOU NEEDLING AT AT THIS POINT? THIS ISN'T A MINI GAME. THIS IS A 27 PLAYER ROLE MADNESS. EVERYONE'S NOT AN INVESTIGATIVE. THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY OF EACH TYPE OF ROLES OUT THERE.

the more killing you have, the more protectives you put in to compensate for it. it's a p simple formula. it doesn't have to necessarily offset EVERY kill attempt.

and if we were going to restrict the lynch to BRO or sera just on the basis of that, no one piped up before. and that's a p asinine idea to begin with.

[Heartless]

...is someone going to ask me what color my underwear are next...?

[Heartless]

that's why you get dark colored. the yellow doesn't show up

[Heartless]

i'm not outguessing the mod. this is not advanced mind reading. this is game design 101.

ok, forget kill potential for a second.

in a 27 player ROLE MADNESS game, there are going to be more than 3 protectives. guaranteed. why? b/c when you have to come up w/ 27 UNIQUE roles, more than 3 of them are going to be kill-stopping in nature.

if you think there's only 3 protectives, what did ut/quadz fill the other 24 roles with? killing+information? all of them?

where's your snag here b/c idgi and i'm too stupid to figure it out. plz feed me w/ a spoon

[Heartless]

mollie

it reads like i'm talking down to you right now
... i don't mean to... it's b/c i'm being shitty and you don't deserve it

i'm sorry....

[Heartless]

awesome, mollie went to bed thinking i'm a douche

....

/sigh

[Heartless]

ok

bottom line

do you think we should lynch one of bro or sera b/c of it?

y/n

i say n

[Heartless]

sera

right now i'm laying in bed feeling like shit. i'm serious. if i committed seppuku right now, RAW SEWAGE WOULD COME POURING OUT OF MY GAPING WOUND AND MY SKIN WOULD FALL TO THE GROUND LIKE AN EMPTY PILLOWCASE.

you may not get an immediate response. get over it.

[Heartless]

>:|

mollie, are you townreading Bookitty? Why?

she is in the town pile for the time being. is it just her entrance on d1 or is there more to it than that.

There are things that are

just

off.

She's going to great lengths to talk about how much she believes us about farside's invention and that's making me paranoid. There's also the recent behavior around the swirling Shaft and estival wagons. She's been working with you this whole time with her votes, which would make sense if you were town reading each other and trying to work more efficiently at game solving. Given that, it's weird she didn't acknowledge the Shaft wagon you're championing and went straight for a policy lynch vote on estival (Post 1833). That's an anomaly.

Another thing that really pinged me was the way she responded to Antihero a while back in Post 1319. When Anti outlined vague gut suspicion of her, she went

straight

for Anti's weak spot: guilt. One way I've seen scum try to shake Anti off their trail is to play on his shame and make him feel like a dick for pushing them. Irritatingly he usually backs off, especially if the person is question happens to have two X chromosomes . The most recent example where I had this problem was with Anti and Titus in Open 581. That game made me go on an hour long tirade about which parts of his brain he was thinking with and why he was falling for Titus' stupid AtE. I thought he learned his lesson, but I guess old habits die hard.

If Bookitty has experience with Anti or his hydras, which she indicated she did in Post 1553, she knows which of his buttons to push. The paranoid part of me says it's a manipulative ploy.

well I am falling for shaft's aTe in the hood which is very mild but he sounds so defeatist it is making me feel bad. so i think it is more that anti genuinely doesn't want to be a dick to some1 as likeable as boo. can you point me to the posts where she did that tho?

I am looking at the 2 wagons on d1 and they are pretty interesting. ika was lynched with 13 votes while what comes closest to a competing wagon is shaft at 4. so i am guessing there was a bit of bussing going on? of the 4 on shaft far flipped town while on ika bulge flipped town. I find the lack of a proper cs to be very interesting.

ok

bottom line

do you think we should lynch one of bro or sera b/c of it?

y/n

i say n

not today.

I just checked back over estuvia's posts and i am kind of seeing what is talking about with the rapid shift in tone. tempted to sheep gamma cos it will firm up a read. thing is they are claiming vengeful in which no1 is really gonna wanna hammer that unless we are pretty convinced that he is scum and if he is town scum aren't going near it. so its ugh but I feel like his role that I don't mind pl-ing and I am back to waffling on the read just cos of that shift in mood in when it clearly wasn't serving him.

Spoiler:

There's a trail from the ika flip that leads straight back to Shaft. Early on in Post 462, Shaft asked for a case on ika and refused to vote him. His opinion changed in Post 629 without much explanation and he occupied a late position on the wagon (9/14). The push on Cheetory was never any good either. Now a scum-driven counterwagon on a relatively easy target crops up while Shaft disappears into this mist of a mysterious neighborhood thread.

If he's got time to post in a neighborhood, he can come out here and post. Let's hear it.

[Heartless]

Heartless I don't mean any of this personally.

I assure you, I don't. And as much as I fuss at people, I hope no one is taking anything I'm saying personally either.

[Heartless]

the biggest red flag was from anti where he said that there wld be a protective role for each faction when at the time I was looking at only 3 kills and 1 attempted. sk, pgo, vig and then scum. but there seems to be this weird anticipation of multiple deaths when the d2 op does not point to that. but the weird assumption of multiple protective roles kind of does!

there are so many things wrong with this.....

>i never said there would be a protective for each faction. in fact, sk didn't get a protective. i said spread across all factions
>d2 op has 3 deaths, i have no idea what you're talking about in the rest of the post

i have no idea what you're getting weird with me over b/c what i said was pretty straightforward

[Heartless]

I'm really annoyed right now and in a terrible mood and probably shouldn't be posting, but I am. :\

[Heartless]

I'm sorry, did estival claim supersaint somewhere and I missed it? o.O

[Heartless]

I am most likely going to vote with reina cos it is rare that reina reaches out like this and I see what he is saying. I am not exactly dazzled by estuvia's post or reasoning there is a weird cog-dis to them but again, I find it common from people from that play group.

I find it funny how estuvia keeps discrediting reina in the most bizarre ways. I think estuvia is suffering from played-5-gamitis which fits from his viewpoints.

it is the rapid mood changes that is baking my noodle. estuvia was called for getting all meltydowney, got defensive about it and then changed their approach and instantly tried to appear more reasonable. to me this points to a more self-conscious survivalistic mindset which in my opinion is scummy. I see this come a lot from newbs tho but I am just leanig scumy at this point.

I am not as confident as I was about shaft. he basically just gave up as he was catching up in the thread and I am not used to seeing such defeatism in shaft and I have seen more of his scum games than his town games. he basically was just like, "you do what you feel like you need to do". cos i was talking about being transparent about our convos. I am just going to give him a bit of time.

anyhoo that is where I am at.

(1979)

Heartless.
Reina.
You're both beautiful.

Shaft's scum.
estival's probscum.
They're both likely scum, neither is a scumdriven counterwagon to the other, we have a rare scumVscum situation.

Now make up and kiss.

I respectfully disagree and I'll walk through it a little more when I have time to write a longer post.

[Heartless]

it just seems like some pple have inside knowledge of set up design that i don't have.

the biggest red flag was from anti where he said that there wld be a protective role for each faction when at the time I was looking at only 3 kills and 1 attempted. sk, pgo, vig and then scum. but there seems to be this weird anticipation of multiple deaths when the d2 op does not point to that. but the weird assumption of multiple protective roles kind of does!

okay I need a break.

the biggest red flag was from anti where he said that there wld be a protective role for each faction when at the time I was looking at only 3 kills and 1 attempted. sk, pgo, vig and then scum. but there seems to be this weird anticipation of multiple deaths when the d2 op does not point to that. but the weird assumption of multiple protective roles kind of does!

there are so many things wrong with this.....

>i never said there would be a protective for each faction. in fact, sk didn't get a protective. i said spread across all factions
>d2 op has 3 deaths, i have no idea what you're talking about in the rest of the post

i have no idea what you're getting weird with me over b/c what i said was pretty straightforward

I don't

want

to butt in on this conversation because I don't know the first thing about game design but it looks like I have to since you two are talking past each other and mollie's suspecting us for a reason that is completely escaping my comprehension.

Is the hang-up on the number of protective specials? To me, it seems like there would be more than 3 people with protective or some sort of kill interference aspect to their role if for no other reason than due to sheer volume. If no one is vanilla and there's 27 roles, I would have to think there's more than just 3 opportunities at kill stopping but that's little more than a blind guess.

May I ask why this is important or worth talking about? How did this even come up because I'm reading this series of posts and I don't get it. Is it about Seraphim and BROseiden and why we're not lynching one of them because of the "protective" thing or am I misinterpreting that?

[Heartless]

because it is the shittiest argument in the world that the reason there are so many protective roles are cos we have 27 players and critic cld not come up with anything else. it is the exact same argument anti used and all you managed to do it is prettify it up with different words but the shitty premise is the same. when i pressed anti he never really addressed my point all he did was avoid and deflect.

I have played critic's games before and 1 thing I know for sure is that they do not lack creativity. so why is there this assumption of a bunch of protective roles running around other than the claimed 1s? I mean the "sheer volume" argument does not get anymore specious.

@_@

mollie, I am more confused about the nature of this conversation after reading this post than I was before. Full disclosure: my nerves are really frayed, I'm not at the top of my game, my patience is really thin, and

I'm ridiculously scatterbrained right now

. I am Worn-out right now with a capital "W". You can probably tell from the sub-par writing. I have absolutely no interest in going around in rhetorical circles so if we could please get to the heart of the issue right now that would be best.

Anti moved the vote to Shaft on Sunday night because

I

told him to and I didn't feel like getting on my computer at the time. I figured that, even though scum obviously survived the PGO shot, it didn't

necessitate

one of Seraphim or BROseiden being scum because there are so many variables at work that I couldn't even presume to know. The only thing I asked Anti was that if it was

possible

for there to be more methods of interfering with kill to which he said yes and he said the rule of thumb for protectives when designing a game was to have "protective potential" be equal to or greater than the "killing potential." The guy's run however many games now so I just took his word as the green-light for the Shaft vote.

My reads on Sera and BRO have softened for various reasons outside role-related reasons anyway and I figured Shaft was the superior lead based on what I wrote about him previously in Post 1978. That's why I told Anti to vote the way he did when he did.

Have we hit the bottom yet? Or do I still need to keep going down?

[Heartless]

I respectfully disagree and I'll walk through it a little more when I have time to write a longer post.

And I still have to do this.
ACK!

>:\

[Heartless]

for some strange reason that I cannot fathom I am so good with this lynch right now.

That makes two of us.

[Heartless]

(The "some strange reason I cannot fathom" part.)

[Heartless]

If anyone's going to hammer, I think it needs to be Shaft.

[Heartless]

I thought you wanted Shaft lynch?
If you do you should actually make a case like you promised three days ago.

I've already made the case, the only thing I haven't done is explain why I think the estival case is inflated but I might be wasting my time there.

[Heartless]

I honestly am getting a little wary of you Heartless. For reasons that are probably obvious.
If estival is town then I wouldn't mind a check on Heartless for sanity's sake.

Why, because of the supersaint thing or because you don't think I can get a town read right?

[Heartless]

I honestly am getting a little wary of you Heartless. For reasons that are probably obvious.
If estival is town then I wouldn't mind a check on Heartless for sanity's sake.

Why, because of the supersaint thing or because you don't think I can get a town read right?

worried?

No, I'm a little miffed that egos are playing such a role in this lynch.

[Heartless]

Are you townreading estival, Heartless?

Yes, and I don't know what more you want me to do regarding this wagon. I already said I think the reasons Reina's been scumreading estival could cut either way and all I got back was "Nuh uh!"

"Nuh uh!" it was, then. The Shaft wagon lost out because

somehow

disappearing into the neighborhood topic while you're under pressure is

so

town.

[Heartless]

Claim now.

Last chance. I don't want to kill town.

this slot. is so fucking scum

Jfc

Me?

What does jfc mean?

Jesus
Fucking
Christ

[Heartless]

Oh fuck vonflare,

I was an Unlynchable.

I would be unvoted. You fucktard.

I was gambiting because I know scum won't hammer with the supersaint fear.

FFS everyone in this game who voted me shit town or scum.

Hah the dayvig was fake, and I believe you are town after that reaction.

Well I for one am shocked!
Who could have possibly seen that one coming?!

[Heartless]

Yes, and I don't know what more you want me to do regarding this wagon

Could call people on it dumb? Could call me dumb? IDK.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Is there any reason to not test if she's full of shit on this unlynchable thing right now?

I don't think any of you are dumb.
I just think most people got swept up in drama.

[Heartless]

estival, could you please kindly stop being anti-town, get the vote off yourself, and vote Shaft?

[Heartless]

I'm out.

[Heartless]

I gotta say this whole Brave schtick is getting kinda silly though

Spoiler: ????

[Heartless]

Can we lynch shaft now.

[Heartless]

What's the case against shaft?

I rly don't want to go thru the whole thread :/

There's a trail from the ika flip that leads straight back to Shaft. Early on in Post 462, Shaft asked for a case on ika and refused to vote him. His opinion changed in Post 629 without much explanation and he occupied a late position on the wagon (9/14). The push on Cheetory was never any good either. Now a scum-driven counterwagon on a relatively easy target crops up while Shaft disappears into this mist of a mysterious neighborhood thread.

If he's got time to post in a neighborhood, he can come out here and post. Let's hear it.

[Heartless]

i.e. exactly what theamateur did but shaft is lurking/inactive so of course he's the scum between them

If that's the only difference to you, pull the stick out of your ass and vote Shaft.

[Heartless]

I will actually go and read Heartless' linked posts

[Heartless]

damn, what the hell did ya'll to do tth to make her have a nervous breakdown...?

[Heartless]

put up or shut up

i'm putting my foot down here and

i'm going to say the same exact thing to you, mollie.

i didn't just fall off the turnip truck. i've designed/run/comoded/codesigned a ton of setups on this site now. if there are seriously NO MORE protectives in this game i'm a fucking monkey's uncle because there is NO reviewer (much less faraday) that looks at a setup and goes "SK+mafia+vig? yeah, just slap in 1 full protectives and 2 limited shot and you're good to go". ESPECIALLY considering the sk wasn't bp.

bet. on. it.

and if you're going to take shitty swipes at tth about "specious arguments" THEN PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS AND FUCKING VOTE SERA OR BRO.

[Heartless]

Supersaint thing.
I feel like I would be expecting you to fight this lynch harder if you actually cared, but instead it kind of feels like you're trying to indirectly push it off the rails and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it was because you were worried about the doubt the flip could bring to you.

keeping staying away from the scum lynch, it's cool

[Heartless]

/waits for mods

[Heartless]

also I don't give a shit anymore.

I give up. I flat out give up. I think this game is scumsided just based on sheer numbers and I think there is only 1 team.

[Heartless]

/untangle this...

[Heartless]

ok.....

so we weren't mafia's n1 kill. aero got busdriven.


LOL

[Heartless]

also, aero didn't get bus driven because aristo didn't die.

well that's what mastin said...

[Heartless]

aero either tried to kill us or aristophanes bus drove him and someone who had a kill coming his way

[Heartless]

also
VOTE: bookitty

[Heartless]

Hi guys.

I'll probably start reading this N1. <3 you all

While I'm still waiting for a moment of clarity, I think we should definitely punish posts like these.

vote BRO

Ugh, I'm obviously not getting my lynch on BRO, so I'll have to compromise and actually read the game.
Mollie, how sure of you on this Ika read?

I had a snow day today, and tomorrow. And I will also
VOTE: BROseidon

HEY GUYS I FOUND IKA'S SCUMBUDDIES

i bet all 3 of these are town

[Heartless]

'mkay
VOTE: estival

[Heartless]

might wanna lynch gilga afterwards, i'll think about it later

i think vonflare or bookitty are a lot better

[Heartless]

bookittys mindset is pretty town i think

well, i think you're wrong and i'd like you to elaborate on that. passing over the shaft wagon for the estival one and the way she did it was pretty gross. i'll eat the crow if estival is scum but i don't think she is. otherwise i think more than that is needed from anyone townreading her.

von looks kind of spazzy town but i could easily see myself being wrong about that

mmmmmmmmmmmm
dialing up the fake day vig after being asked to hammer what most people thought was the super saint is yuck. the evaluation of the shaft wagon was too.

[Heartless]

His position on the wagon is interesting, and if he didn't give much of a reason, he might just be sheeping.

I'm going to ISO him I guess.

Shaft please post in thread.

Shaft's neighbour, what's your honest opinion on shafts posts in the neighbourhood

as opposed to

his posting in the thread.

Unless his neighbour hasn't been revealed. In which case, I dunno. Come out if you want.

mmmmmmm hold on a sec... this wasn't as bad as i remembered it being...

[Heartless]

lol yeah, we're lynching vonflare

[Heartless]

also
VOTE: bookitty

Why bookitty over Reina? I view them as roughly equivalent.

When I go through Bookitty's ISO, there are pros and cons.
Pros:

*

She does ~little~ things that I would intuitively think are more likely to come from town than from scum.

*

Scum would already know they didn't try to kill us Night 1, but she seemed

really

committed to that theory.
Cons:

*

She was

extremely

generous in giving ika chances in getting his head back in the game and it looked like she was on a hair-trigger to turn it around.

*

She completely passed up the opportunity to even comment on the Shaft wagon the first time around, opting for an estival wagon that I still think was based on her coarse personality this game more than anything.

I'll have to take some more time to think about it, but there are red flags there. I'll also have to take a little time to think about Reina, but his reads are easy to follow given his personality profile.

[Heartless]

I like how you don't address my interchangeability comment at all.

I have a townread on Reina because of the things I told you about and I just hashed out my Bookitty read. I don't think they're interchangeable. What are you unclear on?

[Heartless]

Which, given that his positionality yesterday was identical to Bookitty's in everything except timing,

Not really. :S
True, they were both on the wrong side of the fence for a time, but the approach and events were pretty different.

[Heartless]

we're confirming your role so gamma can shut up now can you just self-vote so we can get on with it?

[Heartless]

hm
UNVOTE:

[Heartless]

VOTE: vonflare

We aren't lynching estival. This was obviously a scum-driven lynch yesterday - that didn't magically change overnight.

Especially when we have a softed cop guilty.

yep, p much this

VOTE: vonflare

[Heartless]

'mkay /untangle again...
UNVOTE:

[Heartless]

well i doubt it's amnesiac cop results if we're just now hearing about it on day 3. where did the results from night 1 go?

jackal, what exactly did you get?

[Heartless]

Vonflare, did your slot start out the game in a neighborhood with Cheetory or did that happen somewhere along the way?

[Heartless]

Ignore that question, I just looked at Cheetory's role PM again.

[Heartless]

Heartless, do you think I should be the lynch for today?

No.

[Heartless]

@Heartless(I think): I targetted vonflare and received a pm from the mod saying he was mafia.

oh, so was it the same thing gamma was talking about d2 when he targeted psyche?

[Heartless]

Ok, so I was wrong about ika.
But look how well I did despite being wrong about ika.

More pending.

no

get out

i agree with this and also

Okie.
So someone fucked with me last night.
And today's mission is to fuck with them.

:3

i guess i can just claim now

my action on you got turned into a cop by

someone else

and yeah you are not mafia
but i would be happier if you would just talk a little less to be honest

and to whoever the

someone else

is:
you're cool
don't target me tonight though, i'm not using any abilities tonight.

your friend,
Reina

[Heartless]

VOTE: vonflare

[Heartless]

/sigh

UNVOTE:

[Heartless]

yeah, i'm with gamma on this.

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game?It is possible. The moderators will not lie, however.

jackal, you should ask the mods if sanity is guaranteed.
if your cop is one-shot or really heavily gated, then i think it's more likely sane than not.

[Heartless]

@TTH: You realise I was on both the Ika and the Shaft lynches, right? I was on the Shaft wagon early when it started again (I fully admit I preferred Estival and I'm not sure you're not right that it was my frustration with the playstyle) and I would like to think I was one of the people who made it viable again. That doesn't prove anything, to be fair, but I'm doing my best to just address you and not to do whatever it was that you don't like that you said I was doing to Antihero, so could you please stop confbiasing on everything I do? I do not know what it is that is bothering you so much, but you're flatly wrong and my flip will eventually prove it.

i sighed and unvoted because jackal's claim is just really fucking muddled right now and i want to see what's going on. it had nothing to do w/ you.

also, tth and i are kind of on the fence about you right now because if vonflare really is scum then i think your chances of being scum go WAY down because of a post a while back i'm too lazy to go dig up right now

[Heartless]

the whole thing w/ "cheetory told me to roleblock reina" is kind of sketch to me

[Heartless]

and then gamma magically having this thing happen to him that's kinda sorta like a roleblocker but not really

[Heartless]

also, bookitty

what i'm getting the feeling of in terms of "bastard" level in this game is that the highest level of "bastard" we're going to see is stuff like shaft's role.

i.e. - where the mod makes a pt but doesn't tell mollie it's a loverize

stuff where it's kind of underhanded and bastard by omission where they just LEAVE OUT important shit but not outright LYING to the players.

[Heartless]

i'm looking at cheetory's iso and i have no idea what would possess him to tell you to block reina, vonflare

what did he say, now?

[Heartless]

yep
VOTE: vonflare

[Heartless]

Notice the bolded part, please. I've been thinking about that for a few hours now and I can't sync it up with the kills Night One. We know Shaft used it. I can't figure out who was shooting who and why.

aero targeted us for pretty obvious reasons and i think a vig shot bulge also for pretty obvious reasons.

[Heartless]

failing kills
limited shot vigs holding their fire

[Heartless]

I thought aero shot himself due to bus :0

no

mastin's watch + aris' flip confirm that no one actively killed him. given tth's read on him it's 99.99999999999% likely he targeted us and derped on the immunity

[Heartless]

failing kills
limited shot vigs holding their fire

and there might be another sk

there's that too

[Heartless]

if someone killed aero, i think mastin would've seen that

[Heartless]

not sure.... depends on how mastin's results were phrased / how the mods treat tracker and watcher results ("visited" versus "targeted" and if it shows up if it got monkeyed with)

[Heartless]

damn mastin...
sorry to hear that

[Heartless]

what's your point re:mastin, boo?

[Heartless]

yeah, hold on a sec
UNVOTE:

couple more things

[Heartless]

someone tried to kill mastin?

where did this happen?

[Heartless]

Oh. Um, I'm going to share this even though it's not finished, because it will explain why I was looking at Mastin's reads so carefully.

ok...

even if you did accept the premise that someone tried to kill mastin and it got bus driven to aero

mastin, for sure, was not the SCUM (mafia) kill

where is this all going, boo?

[Heartless]

there's no indication aero would've killed mastin. aero wasn't scumreading mastin and mastin wasn't posing much of a threat to aero

are you looking for a second sk... or what?

[Heartless]

I don't see any other way this makes sense. Do you?

Aero didn't read his role carefully enough and thought that "global" action immune meant he was immune to pretty much all actions

[Heartless]

ok my brain is fried or yours is

where are you getting "someone targeted mastin" from?

[Heartless]

hey, claimed doc lived through the night, hmmm

role madness means that people probably aren't going to get killed JUST for their roles



ok.....


boo

it's great that you're talking about it, but all this needs to go somewhere.

do you think bro is scum?

[Heartless]

role madness means that people probably aren't going to get killed JUST for their roles

***clarifying on this b/c i kind of misstated it***

given the lack of town information roles that have already flipped, it makes sense that "some sort of modified doc" isn't really a priority kill.

[Heartless]

Anyway, the net result I came away with is that Mastin was really accurate and that could have made her a target Night One.

DSIUREOAPWI8FJHUSA;FUPIAS8EH8APFHALKJDSKAHFAISEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE



accurate in what way?

[Heartless]

MASTIN. WASN'T. THE. SCUM. KILL. WE. KNOW. THIS. FROM. SHAFT'S. FLIP.

WHAT. IS. YOUR. POINT?

K;LJFDOIIII8JFEPAJIEW8F932U29U32IJ132O31

[Heartless]

Please read my Post 2759 for specifics.

you're pointing to mastin being right about shaft and ika which is great and all, but shaft's flip+mollie's suicide+the clause about "replace the factional kill" in shaft's role pm says that mafia didn't try to kill mastin.

soooooooo... do you think mastin had a 2nd SK nailed...?

[Heartless]

help me...

[Heartless]

I don't know, Heartless. All I can do is look at the facts we know and try to organise them into something that might be helpful later on.

hello brick wall.
my name's antihero
what's yours...?

[Heartless]

i'm not trying to be a douche, but i am one so that's how it comes out

i'm trying to get to the end of the train of thought because i feel like i hop on and then i'm left stranded out the middle of fucking nowhere AND I WANT TO SEE THE END

[Heartless]

What were you wondering about when you unvoted heart?

even if vonflare is scum, there's probably at least one more

wading through lower profile like marquis, hostile, peregrine

[Heartless]

I freely admit I'm not the world's greatest scumhunter. The best I can usually do is to present known facts logically and try to work from there. My gutreads usually suck. But in this large game with the current participation level, basically anything that can motivate town to try to work things out and stay engaged is a good thing to me. If people think my theories suck, I'm eager to hear their countertheories. But having no theories out there at all seems a lot worse to me.

hey
no negging on yourself

my theory:
>aero's kill went to us b/c tth was up his ass
>scum kill went to mollie
>bulge vig kill

thinking on it...
it's weird that aris died. mastin's result yesterday + the public theory about the kill implied aris was the vig. that's why mastin was quick to put a sock in it. scum would've already known the theory was topsy turvy anyway though because we weren't the scum kill; that's what the pubic theory hinged on.

there's several options:
an idiot with a vig shot / a second sk / some kind of pgo / something else

it's hard to pin down

[Heartless]

/jumps out window

[Heartless]

do you guys know how amazing it would be if there was a whole nother mafia team that's escaped our wrath while the other one has been systematically decimated

then it would london streetracers

[Heartless]

Bookitty, I believe the strongest evidence for a second serial killer are the kills from Night 2, particularly the Aristophanes kill. I can't imagine any competent town vigilante targeting either Cheetory or Aristophanes. Only one of them could be the scum kill but the other might have died due to unseen fuckery. I think it's extremely likely Flubbernugget was a vig kill but I suppose it's possible he could've been an SK kill.

I think Anti's waiting for me and we really need vonflare's flip before we proceed because we'd have to be working from two different assumptions right now.

[Heartless]

not really waiting on anyone at this point
VOTE: vonflare

[Heartless]

Spoiler:

[Heartless]

if it's marquis i am not going to hear the fucking end of it from tth. she suspected him day 1 and i vouched for him.

well....

...

...shit...