Touhou UPick 3 - [Game Over]

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:00 am

also, i should mention that it's not necessary to use protections on me

i'm going to assume scum already have a very good idea of what character i am anyway, so if they want to take a shot at me, they can

i was not lying when i said i'm bulletproof unlynchable and two seconds of research into my character would tell you why

(this is also why i'm not interested in mentioning every single read i have at the moment. i will 100% be around tomorrow, and the next day, and the next)

being immortal is the only useful ability i actually have

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:05 am

In post 1227, Katsuki wrote:
In post 1222, zMuffinMan wrote:also, i should mention that it's not necessary to use protections on me

i'm going to assume scum already have a very good idea of what character i am anyway, so if they want to take a shot at me, they can

i was not lying when i said i'm bulletproof unlynchable and two seconds of research into my character would tell you why

(this is also why i'm not interested in mentioning every single read i have at the moment. i will 100% be around tomorrow, and the next day, and the next)

being immortal is the only useful ability i actually have

WAIT WTF BULLETPROOF UNLYNCHABLE ACTUALLY EXISTS? ROFL

i did say "me too"

*shrug*

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:38 am

I'll be honest, I thought sakura's post-hammer reactions looked town so I thought she could be town.

OTOH Sakura's flip makes me feel a lot better about sky being town.

Vote: ActionDan

I need to do some reading.

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:40 am

What do you think about SB then?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:45 am

Also, I'd like to decide on a reasonable lynch pool within 4 days so there's no last-minute scramble for claims today. Then I'm going to use my gladiate (just to have it used) and we can double lynch.

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:51 am

Vote: SB

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:01 am

how much of the game have you read, mala?

thoughts on SB?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:02 am

In post 1294, Kagami wrote:Action on me makes me less sure about AD scum.

keeping in mind that any non-spellcard abilities scum chose to use during the night were obviously with the track in mind, do you still think this means anything?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:10 am

is sb town or scum noddy?

@mala

apparently rylai used it because he thought it'd make him immune to night spell-cards (and i'd guess the global tracking thing played a part in it, too)

i thought the honesty with which he admitted this was minorly townish

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:16 am

In post 458, ActionDan wrote:I just don't like the all of a sudden Sakura vote on the heels of Pieguyn's budding suspicion. It's a vote whose reasons lie in the past and thus could have been acted upon much more immediately (even in the post where Kagami says Sakura is suspicious). Besides the timing of it, I find the reasons themselves for it weak, especially the muffin investigation thing. Since I believe that played out in the Pieguyn and her back and forth I'll mention I found that looked pretty legit there. And even were the suspicion solid it's abnormal that it's isolated in a sea of content that Kagami has really yet to touch.

Since I'm on the subject the exchange between Sakura and Pieguyn is stymied by the fact that there's a multi-game history being referenced continuously between posts but I think Sakura's responses look fine considering Pieguyn is simply overbearing. The visual I get is of a bunny rabbit being tormented by a Savannah highmane

what do you think of this, kagami?

too blatant to be scum-scum?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:20 am

In post 459, Sakura Hana wrote:
In post 458, ActionDan wrote:I didn't read SkyP's post! though skimming it it seems like moonlogic was employed!

Not really, he has some very good and valid points about SB and SF.

Unvote

Vote: Serenes Forest

Vote: SB

Let's see where this goes.

In post 490, Sakura Hana wrote:.
.
.
Ok, after checking the meta... what the hell? that meta's just about useless =/
He's joked about busing half the time as scum and half the time as town (66% as town if you count the self vote joke "Next-Level Busing" lol'd)

Unvote: SB

Not sure what to make of this.

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:26 am

In post 1314, SB wrote:ns said he was gonna shoot me, so if you think Rylai's spellcard forced scum to idle their kill then why wouldn't I just do it if I was scum? It's not like the track would mean anything because I'd be dead anyway.

that assumes you thought he was serious, had no way to prevent yourself dying, and that you'd be dumb enough to gamble on him telling the truth - because if he wasn't, you'd have outed yourself as scum

and this all assumes scum chose not to kill (which is a weird assumption in itself, since my first thought was a failed kill. i do not think fakegod completely gimped the scum team by making them impotent for a night, so they likely have some form of bypassing tracks)

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:32 am

noddy

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:32 am

SB town? scum?

AD town? scum?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:38 am

how sure are you SB is town

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:45 am

ok

i'm going to work on the assumption AD is scum

Vote: AD

i thought his comment to sky post-hammer was really weird. "congratulations on getting a lynch other than yourself" is a weird thing to say to someone, unless he had reason to believe drezi was lying about claiming scum.

also something i noticed from brief skimming over the night phase was that kilgy and AD have barely any interaction with each other this game, which is sort of odd given how much they've talked about almost everyone else (it's not like either of them are lacking posts, they just haven't really interacted with each other). prior to today, kilgy had given a brief "dan feels town" comment later in the day, AD hadn't given a read on kilgy at all.

not sure if this means anything or if i'm jumping to conclusions that could very well be way off if one of them happens to be town

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:49 am

actually, not sure how likely it is two scum would have multi-voting abilities in this game. so maybe my kilgy-dan theory is wrong

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:50 am

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:52 am

i was trying to get an idea for the differences in his scum and town meta that would point one way or another

his scum games feel more like he tries to coast while providing as little information as possible. as town he's more likely to contribute reads and talk with people about those reads.

i've never seen him tryhard wall like he's done in this game before. i'm not sure what to make of it

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:08 pm

really?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:09 pm

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:13 pm

what about that makes you think scum?

do you think his spat with sakura at the end of yesterday was faked?

do you think he's lying about the time bomb (which i'm guessing is like a poison, so should resolve itself)?

no noddy, no

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:17 pm

ok. that makes a lot of sense, actually

let's all quick-lynch him

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:22 pm

cupcake

thoughts on someone not sky?

what did you do to sky last night?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:24 pm

ooba*

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:26 pm

remind me what your current reads are, AD

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:29 pm

the significance of the comment to sky post-hammer is that it was awkward if you believed drezi's claim to be scum, but even apart from that it seemed out of place. why did you congratulate him on getting a lynch other than himself?

(it's not the only reason i suspect you, it was just something that struck me as odd)

i'm aware there are a number of people town-reading you. i don't actually care

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:32 pm

In post 1360, ActionDan wrote:
In post 1357, zMuffinMan wrote:remind me what your current reads are, AD

Is there any in particular you want, or the entire gamut?

just how your scum reads have or have not changed since when i asked you at the end of yesterday

also town reads if theyve changed

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:37 pm

"you got a lynch that wasn't you. grats!" carries the implication that you think he's scum who talked his way out of a lynch and got a mislynch

which implies you thought drezi was flipping town and didn't believe the post-hammer scum claim (you gave no indication of whether or not you believed it)

the alternative here is trying to paint his actions in this manner because you knew drezi was flipping town

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:40 pm

do you think SB is town, AD?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:43 pm

In post 1372, notscience wrote:I can't be the only one who's bugged by everyone harping after associatives on a scumflip

;]

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:51 pm

note: if anyone actually ends this day phase now, they need to die the slowest and most painful death imaginable

perhaps death by reading a metal sonic ISO

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:10 pm

actually, i'm going to get this out of the way now because i don't see much fruitful information coming out of my continued not-so-subtle prodding and it gives us more time to discuss this

i lied when i said i have no useful spellcards. last night i used a parity cop spell card. one of AD and SB is scum

was going to wait a while to out this information, but i'm more interested in hearing opinions on what to do about this (and help in analysing sakura interactions between the two of them)

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:13 pm

i mean the obvious thing to do is lynch one of them and if he flips town, vig the other, but i mean hearing opinions on who to lynch

also deciding on a potential second lynch that isn't one of them

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:17 pm

indeed. though that wasn't a case, it was just observations

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:22 pm

also, should note that i do not think your chainsawing of kagami makes you likely scum, but i was prodding for reactions and partially trusting noddy that SB had done something amazingly town in the neighbourhood or something

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:14 pm

i don't understand those vig choices

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:15 pm

or rather, the lack of AD choice

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:16 pm

did you not believe i was immortal, AD?

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:26 pm

i would have thought that sky was responsible for the gaiden shot (even though i personally think there were better options, it's not like much of value was lost, though i would have liked to know what the red/blue thing was yesterday)

it's possible noddy was redirected. i doubt it was onto gaiden

and yes my shot means SB is not scum

see here for what a parity cop is (ignoring that this was a scum fakeclaim)

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:27 pm

though i had the option of self-targeting and making myself a full cop. i chose not to.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:30 pm

it means AD is scum, cupcake

also i'm pretty sure AD is going to self-hammer and not allow a double lynch today, but it's still a good idea to try (or at least discuss it)

and wait for all people to check in, anyway

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:39 pm

In post 1419, Katsuki wrote:
In post 1415, zMuffinMan wrote:it means AD is scum, cupcake

also i'm pretty sure AD is going to self-hammer and not allow a double lynch today, but it's still a good idea to try (or at least discuss it)

and wait for all people to check in, anyway

so you have an AD guilty?

Vote: AD

it's hard to tell how much of this is you trying to be funny and how much of this is you completely missing what happened yesterday

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:42 pm

don't lynch yet, for many obvious reasons

the least of which is sky has some splainin' to do, and a cop result he's been sitting on

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:51 pm

So you just saw it in night phase and didn't check who got lynched or how the day ended?

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:52 pm

Even though the day ended a couple hours after opening. That didn't strike you as odd?

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:59 pm

I could believe 1433. Except the first sentence.

Also don't really think mala is scum.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:04 pm

I was killed, yes. I'm a gladiator-parity cop-treestump.

'tis a pity the hourai elixir didn't prevent me from dying altogether, but oh well.

Now you get to call me Stumpy.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:07 pm

Sure. But that makes me the lovable goof, and you the mean-spirited bully. Which I suppose is fitting given our alignments.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:12 pm

On the plus side, we can spend the rest of the day thinking of ideas for the Dan & Stumpy show, since neither of us is technically obligated to play the game at this point.

It'll be a smash hit that takes mafiascum by storm.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Stop voting AD.

No more 4-hour days.

Everyone checks in. Shares information they may or may not have. We talk about things like who we think is scum and how nice the weather is today.

Then we take turns kicking AD in the groin. You can sit this part out if you're not as sadistic as I am.

Then we lynch him.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:29 pm

Yes, and I would pat you on the head and tell you you're a good boy if I could.

We're still waiting on all players to check in, and Sky to write a massive wall about stuff that most people will ignore but is important because one of the many thousands of lines might have information about why he is still alive and who he targeted N1.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:32 pm

In post 1463, Malakittens wrote:Welp I fucked up then |:

Did you shoot Noddy?

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:37 pm

In post 1468, Katsuki wrote:
In post 1431, zMuffinMan wrote:Even though the day ended a couple hours after opening. That didn't strike you as odd?

Instead of being cheeky I would appreciate a rundown tbh I'm too lazy to go and read right now.

There's like... five pages D2.

And all you have to do is read one of them.

Start here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1375

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:42 pm

In post 1494, Katsuki wrote:are you fucking kidding me

No.

I'm sorry that I think the claimed cop who's apparently been sitting on a result since N1 should claim it before we rush to end the day.

I apologise if this deeply offends your sensibilities.

My bad.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:45 pm

In post 1497, ooba wrote:There's also the case where SB could be scum and AD town.

That was the case before AD ended the day yesterday.

Coming into today, there isn't a single person who should have thought AD was anything but scum.

I'm surprised this didn't come up in your neighbourhood overnight.

In post 1499, Katsuki wrote:AND YOU STILL HAVENT TOLD ME WHAT HAPPENED LAST DAY TOO STUMPY

Read page 56. I linked it for you.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:47 pm

He claimed to have a result, Cupcake.

That is why we are waiting patiently.

If you're bored, we can play hangman.

Do you want to start or should I?

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:49 pm

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:50 pm

C U M

(lol)

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:57 pm

In post 1503, GuyInFreezer wrote:GuyInFreezer
pieguyn
Shadoweh
thdgkdms
Sky_Paladin
Rylai Crestfall
SB
Kagami

Ankamius
Kilgamayan

AD
ooba
Katsuki- He gets to stay here with the potential scums because why the hell not
Mala - this is prob scum too if she really shot ns because there's no way in hell I would believe she shot him as town in any circumstances.

Rearranged

Lily and lily are only on the assumption they are 100% town to each other.
Rylai I'm not 100% on.

Ank and Kilgy are a tier below, but I don't believe they're scum at the moment.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:14 pm

In post 1553, ooba wrote:I really think we shouldn't discuss reads\confirmed town\who's not before SkyPal gives his result.

tbh, I didn't intend for discussion to happen prior to people checking in, but *shrug*

People are going off on tangents about what X or Y does or doesn't mean, now.

I'm probably going to wait until you're all asleep to read the game and (attempt to) solidify my reads one way or another. There's a lot of not-so-useful posts at the moment.

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:32 pm

please stop discussing spell cards and night actions like they tell you anything about someone's alignment

if you're basing a rylai town read on 'he used a spellcard that broadcasted non-spellcard actions', you're doing it wrong

likewise, if your kagami town read is anything to do with 'actiondan targeted her N1', you're doing it wrong

anyway, processing the rest of this later

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:39 pm

i was talking in general

i havent read anything youve written today close enough to know what youve said (apart from 1577)

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:43 pm

i notice i'm not on that list

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:45 pm

is that before reading for interactions with sakura/dan?

i don't get why ank is so high and kagami is (relatively) low. tbh i don't really see kagami interactions with dan or sakura being scum-scum

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:59 pm

cupcake what did you do to ooba n1?

weren't you going paint the walls with the blood of sky?

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:06 pm

i made a promise to myself (that i most likely won't keep because extremely lazy) that i would spend some time reading back over the game tonight (or tomorrow), with a focus on evaluating interactions and just generally re-evaluating my reads

i had shadoweh as town because she looks town *shrug*

that's about as good as it is gonna get before i go back and read stuff

zMuffinMan · Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:07 pm

also i remember there being interactions with AD that i thought looked more town than not. don't remember specifically what.

zMuffinMan · Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:55 am

not gonna be able to read anything til some time late tomorrow

before reading though, honestly, i would lynch AD and cupcake

good night

zMuffinMan · Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:10 pm

who scum cupcake

zMuffinMan · Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:12 pm

what have you and ooba talked about

zMuffinMan · Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:14 pm

it's interesting that you're claiming to have a JOAT role that isn't based on spellcards

i'm not sure if that was a scum claim

zMuffinMan · Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:19 pm

why did you pick noddy to motivate?

zMuffinMan · Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:38 pm

i have things to say about cupcake, but first i want 1643 and 1645 answered

on top of that, i want cupcake to make clear whether those abilities were spellcards or standard abilities (i.e. not spell cards)

zMuffinMan · Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:40 pm

and also why he chose to use neighbourise first

zMuffinMan · Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:58 pm

oh and what's the neighbourhood called

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:59 am

Ooba

You can answer too

What's the neighbourhood called and what have you two talked about each night

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:41 pm

Answer the questions

What did you talk about with ooba each night?
Why did you motivate noddy?
Why did you neighbourise first?

and

Which of the abilities you've so far used were spell cards and which weren't?

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:44 pm

These are not intrusive questions. They're asking about things you've already done (and claimed).

There is no reason not to explain the motivation behind why you chose to neighbourise first, what you've talked about so far, why you chose to motivate noddy and which of the abilities you've used were spell cards.

The last one is particularly important.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:50 pm

Just answer the questions or I'm going to explain why you should be lynched today.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:55 pm

OK, so we're lynching Cupcake and AD today. I'll explain why shortly.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:01 pm

YOU CLAIM YOU DIDN'T READ D2. YOU CAN'T HAVE POSSIBLY KNOWN THAT.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:05 pm

Right... You didn't read the additional one page.

But somehow you spoke with ooba and got a strong town read while you weren't able to read a single page of the game, and neither of you talked about what happened with AD and my claim

SO WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU TALK ABOUT?

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:10 pm

Also, it's possible that Cupcake (and some others) are not aware that you can use a spellcard and a regular ability (i.e. an ability that isn't a spell card) in the same phase. The ability Cupcake used on ooba N1 was a regular ability (since it was tracked), and regular abilities in this game don't have limited shots (though they may have other conditions surrounding them, they are most certainly not 1-shot). If we do happen to let Cupcake live today, we're going to force him to neighbourise one of {Mala, Ankamius} (two people scum can't really afford to NK given the limited suspect pool) to prove his ability. This shouldn't interfere with any spellcards he wants to use since he can use them on top of the neighourise ability. Also whoever gets neighbourised by him should have access to whatever conversations he's so far had with ooba.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:23 pm

I've been informed that 1693 isn't necessarily fully correct (it would have been in previous games, but not necessarily in this game).

Still, if Cupcake hasn't disappeared, I want to see what he says.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:29 pm

It's technically not my scum day. You are one day behind me. It's March 12 now.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:40 pm

Just ignore the plan I proposed in 1693. I don't particularly want to let Cupcake live past today anyway.

The part about being able to use regular abilities and spellcards on the same night is true, though.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:48 pm

In post 1467, Katsuki wrote:
In post 1430, zMuffinMan wrote:So you just saw it in night phase and didn't check who got lynched or how the day ended?

I forgot to. I worked through all weekend while inebriated because my boss wouldn't stop buying us drinks (honestly who buys everyone 9 shots each during an hr break I don't even know how I functioned after that).

Cupcake worked through the entire night phase apparently.

This left him unable to read the one page that happened after he posted D2.

It somehow didn't stop him determining that ooba was most likely town in their neighbourhood.

Cupcake couldn't have been talking to ooba, because he was too busy with work and drunk and whatnot, so whatever ooba did that made Cupcake think he's town happened without Cupcake being there.

Now, this also requires ooba not talking at all about AD/me and what happened at the end of yesterday, which makes me curious as to what ooba could have possibly written. Thoughts on the game must surely have revolved around AD, so it can't have been thoughts on the game.

On a somewhat related note, I'm interested in this:

In post 1459, ooba wrote:
I've asked FG if I can post my N2 analysis from the neighbourhood in its entirety - but from Sakura's ISO:
Town: Notty, Pie, Muff, Kil
Scum possibilities: GiF, {AD\Lily}, SB, SkyPal

I want to know what ooba's thoughts on the game were if he wasn't absolutely certain AD was scum after how yesterday played out.

Also, maybe not really noteworthy but potentially noteworthy is that ooba specifically uses singular form for "neighborhood" which implies he's only in one (or only talking in one). Though I suppose it could be argued he was trying to keep it a secret.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:49 pm

Can someone in the other neighbourhood with ooba give me a rundown of the conversation that happened last night and how ooba wasn't certain AD was scum?

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:53 pm

Also of note: If Cupcake was so inebriated and overworked through the entire weekend, I'm surprised he was able to submit an action at all. I'm surprised he even knew it was in night phase at all (and if he knew, how he didn't check how the day ended).

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:55 pm

I'm also not sure I believe a motivator exists in this game, because I'm struggling to think about how it would actually work.

Also not sure why Cupcake called his role "shit" in his first post (especially if he loves neighbours so much).

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:06 pm

i meant your neighbourhood with cupcake

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:28 pm

That's interesting.

He targeted you N1 and you were able to talk the same night.

I had a neighbourising spell card in the first Touhou Upick (something that allowed me to have a neighbourhood with a player until the following day phase ended) but it didn't resolve until the end of the night phase.

FakeGod must be a very inconsistent mod.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:31 pm

I know FakeGod had other neighbouriser abilities that resolved during the day and could be accessed that night, but not a night-use ability.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:31 pm

At what point of N1 did the neighbourhood open?

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:52 pm

OK.

So FakeGod confirmed he's never used a neighouriser role that could choose a target during the night and talk during the same night before.

If he's done it in this game, it's the first time he's ever done it.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:05 pm

Just in case anyone isn't following the implication of my posts because they're spread out, Cupcake is scum.

He (amost certainly) did not target Ooba N1 with a neighbourise ability.

Unless FakeGod is a really inconsistent mod (because I can find multiple examples of him having a day-activated neighbourise role, and an example of night-activated neighbouriser role that

couldn't

talk the same night, but there has never been a night-activated neighbouriser role that could talk the same night as picking a target in any FakeGod game).

It's

possible

Ooba isn't actually scum with him and Cupcake targeted him D1 with a regular ability that did not have to be publicly declared.

But Cupcake is still scum for lying about his N1 action.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:10 pm

In post 1718, Kilgamayan wrote:If nothing else, allowing a neighborizer shot to activate as soon as it was used would confirm that there's nothing in the game that could possibly stop it.

There is an example of an immediately-resolved ability in a previous game (check my abilities in Touhou Upick 2, it's the first role PM in the second link in my first post this game).

I do not believe this is an example of an immediately-resolved ability, though.

In post 1720, Sky_Paladin wrote:Ooba is scum because he confirmed that he posted his reads in the topic at the start of the phase.

Yes, but it's theoretically possible that this scenario exists:

Cupcake has a neighbouriser ability that can be used during the day (but doesn't have to be declared publicly)
Cupcake did use an ability on Ooba N1, but it wasn't the neighbourise ability

Which doesn't necessarily make Ooba scum. He could really be in a neighbourhood with Cupcake.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:12 pm

In post 1721, pieguyn wrote:what you're saying makes sense. the only question is why the hell Katsuki/ooba would _both_ lie about this and confirm themselves as scum

Well, ignoring the possibility I suggested in which Ooba isn't scum, it's possible they didn't know FakeGod's mod meta regarding neighbourisers and thought something like, "lol no one would believe we're scum together if we're neighbours!"

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:15 pm

I think you're getting confused pieguy. Re-read the bottom part of 1722 slowly.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:25 pm

I suppose it's theoretically possible that Ooba meant to say N2 and mistyped.

That would be inconvenient if this is the case because if he's scum, he's going to claim he did mistype now.

But I don't believe he would have talked to Cupcake N2 because Cupcake was apparently too busy to even see how D2 ended. So it had to be N1 or not at all.

So either way Cupcake is lying somewhere.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:26 pm

Sorry, they could have talked N2 but that would imply Cupcake was lying about not having enough time to even read the game.

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:41 pm

it's not what the ability did (necessarily), it's the tracking

(scum would have been hyper-aware of the fact their tracks would be monitored and possibly read into)

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:42 pm

their actions would be tracked*
not their tracks would be monitored

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:54 pm

maybe. i disagree

it doesn't really prove anything about ooba being scum but cupcake has definitely been lying about

something

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:04 pm

In post 1747, pieguyn wrote:yeah, and if he was that paranoid about he he could have just not done anything instead

no i'm saying IF cupcake and ooba are scum together, he could have deliberately done it (knowing he'd be tracked) for wifom purposes and nothing else

i do not think they expected the clusterfuck that was N1 to happen for them (where one scum died and another was sorta found via my ability) - i think it was setting up for something way down the line

you're looking at the current game state and going "oh it couldn't have been done for that reason, look at what's happened in the game!"

you're not thinking about possibilities from a N1 perspective where they weren't really in a bad position (apart from ooba, who was in a semi-bad position)

still, there are other possible explanations that don't make ooba scum, i was just suggesting a possible reason for it if they are scum together

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:08 pm

@pieguy,

just as a really quick example of why knowing you're being tracked matters, we gave you a track in gif's touhou game N1. i was about 99% certain you would use it on me N2. i deliberately designed my night action around knowing you would track me. it didnt matter because you were roleblocked/rolestopped (which ended up hurting me more than it helped) but still... when you know you're being tracked, there are things you can do that don't necessarily have a deeper meaning

arguably the context there is a little different because you wouldn't have known i knew you had a track and that you were gonna use it on me, but still... the point is that there are things you do when you know certain information for no other reason than to mess with people

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:27 pm

and reasoning like that is why it's still a good idea

you could be getting reverse-reverse-reverse-reverse-psychologised pieguy

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:18 pm

OK

that still means cupcake was bullshitting at the start of the day phase, pretending he didn't have time to pay attention to the game overnight because he was so overworked and drunk and all that

yet still had time to talk with you and form a town read (even though it appears you guys didn't discuss the most important part of D2; the fact that AD ended the day in a no lynch)

*shrug*

what reads did he discuss with you

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:22 pm

Spoiler:

all of these in particular look awkward if he was discussing the game with you last night

for example, why didn't he ask

you

for a run down of what happened yesterday, why the day ended so fast, etc?

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:40 pm

i might read over cupcake's play again and try to make sense of it from a town perspective, but i don't see how he as town doesn't check the game thread to see what happened yesterday (like how did he even know it was in night phase? there was no night start PM so he must have seen the thread closed. if you see it closed for night phase, how is your first thought not about checking who was lynched or how the day ended?), pretends he's too busy to have done it (but not so busy that he couldn't talk with you, which honestly takes more effort than clicking on the game to check what happened) and just generally plays the way he's playing (if you're familiar with how he plays as scum, then what do you think about his play this game? because none of his play here looks like anything i've ever seen from him as town). i don't think town-cupcake refuses to tell me the contents of your neighbourhood if it's that sparse (what possible information was so sacred it couldn't be outed?). i don't think town-cupcake refuses to answer my other questions about his role (he knew i had a reason for asking, i think he didn't answer because he wasn't sure of the reasons).

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:10 pm

hes better as town than this, too, so i dont give that much credence

im not talking about the reactions in particular (though i do think his reactions look fake)

im talking about his general attitude towards the game

the sky push D1, for example, did not look like anything ive ever seen him do as town

(ive also only seen scum cupcake once i think and i dont remember him being a consensus town read)

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:12 pm

also, he

was

technically a town read for most people in this game before today

the only reason he's not now is [a] POE and

because i'm making a point of the fact that i don't think he's town. but mostly [a], and there's really nothing he could do about that if he's scum soooooooooo yeah

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:16 pm

i mentioned this in my neighbourhood (which is currently 8 pages of me talking to myself with fakegod occasionally chiming in to remind me im not alone), but katsuki's push on sky D1 was unlike any of the pushes i've seen him do as town, and reminded me of the way he played that one alice game he was scum in

anyway, i might do some reading later and reassess this

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:38 pm

In post 343, ActionDan wrote:VOTE: Relentless

Not for anything related to the massclaim comment but for the rest of it. Gif isn't making whitenoise when there's a read in the same post. Suspicion on serene for voting shadoweh is overdone when it's clearly a wagon vote.

The only thing of merit is the question (accompanied by a threat which is weird kinda like knowing sb is serious bananas but stating he doesn't know him) to kagami. Because i agree that post was trash.

dan were you bussing here?

answer in spoiler tags if you dont want anyone else to know. it will be our secret

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:39 pm

maybe not, hey?

that would make cupcake just an appalling town player

go figure

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:46 pm

relentless's interactions with AD don't actually look like scum-scum interactions actually

is cupcake town, AD?

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:59 pm

i'm gonna be perfectly blunt here cupcake, because i don't really have the patience for your "omg you're a VI why would you ever ask me questions" routine

answer the fucking questions i ask you instead of being a useless piece of shit

who do you think is scum (apart from AD)?

who do you think is town?

why did you call your role shit when you came into the game?

how did you know it was night phase last night? why did you talk in your neighbourhood but not check to see how the game day ended? did it not occur to you that there might have been some sort of important information in the game thread that could have potentially influenced your night action choices?

why did you choose ooba to neighbourise?

was your neighbourise ability a spell card or not?

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:02 pm

your predecessor's play/interactions with scum is the only thing that makes me not want to see you die with AD today

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:39 pm

for the same reason it doesn't say i visited SB/AD, presumably

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:19 pm

mala

how much of the game have you read?

who do you think is scum? (don't tell me there

has

to be scum in your neighborhood, because i don't believe that is necessarily the case and nothing you've said so far has made me more inclined to think it is the case, but even if there is, who else do you think is scum?)

if i were to ignore parts of your posts that look like you're either having breakdowns or pretending to have them, i'd probably be calling you scum now. you had minor content at the start of D1 but since then there's been a lot of promises for content later and no follow-through

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:20 pm

sorry when i say who else, i am more looking for the "why" than the "who"

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:34 pm

In post 1764, pieguyn wrote:run me through why Shadoweh is town?

less town than i initially thought

she gives thoughts on the game and it *feels* somewhat natural and genuine, but they're rather shallow in a lot of places and there's not as much of it as i remember there being. i know she says she doesn't like calling people scum (or has a hard time getting scum reads), but i haven't felt any conviction behind her pushes this game

as far as interactions with AD and sakura, there are no notable ones to speak of, except for a weak "maybe i agree with that sakura case but i'm not sure" and calling AD town and calling Ankamius stupid if he can't see why - nothing particularly condemning here, but nothing that comes anywhere near screaming town

so i dunno

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:37 pm

that said, i think AD's posts about shadoweh don't look like scum interacting with a scum partner, but not certain

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:45 pm

In post 458, ActionDan wrote:1) Shadoweh's post is town because it is. I mean I'd like to just stop there but I should correct you that you simply don't have a good grasp of her meta. She's not foaming at the mouth but she's adamant (and colorful) in her opinions in ways compatible with how she'd be as town (and for me besides those opinions being good it's also how I at least partially can read her)

this reads more like buddying town than talking about a scum buddy

(compare this to, say, the weak way in which he defended sakura further on in the same post)

if i'm being perfectly objective, the other interactions are somewhat weaker and none look hard to fake as scum-scum, but meh

honestly, i think AD's partners are more likely to be among the people he interacted with less and took weaker stances on... AD doesn't strike me as the sort of player who is overly confident when it comes to interacting with scum buddies and prefers to avoid it, when possible

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:37 pm

the politically correct term is stature-challenged persons

little is demeaning

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:38 pm

In post 1809, Shadoweh wrote:you can flaccidly throw stuff at me

also not funny to make fun of ED

i thought better of you

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:43 pm

In post 1809, Shadoweh wrote:firneds

omg i had to read this like 10 times to realise you meant friends

it's like you butchered the english language then tried to put it back together frankenstein style

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:45 pm

In post 1809, Shadoweh wrote:The trifecta of Mala/Ooba/Katsuki is really messy and hard to interpret. And it's unlikely 2/3 are scum right?

it is possible

depends on whether mala is scum, i suppose

do you have town reads on everyone else?

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:50 pm

everyone outside this pool i (think i) have good reason to call town:

{ankamius, shadoweh, ooba, kilgy, rylai, cupcake, mala}

i want to slowly narrow down this list to the point where i have at most 5 people in it, preferably less though

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:53 pm

you can help if you want, AD

but only if you want

no pressure

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:54 pm

i trust your opinion because you probably have a much better grasp of who is scum this game than i do

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:01 pm

ok

when youre wawkake tomorrow, i would like to see you talk about your reads in a bit more depth

zMuffinMan · Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:11 pm

i wasnt making fun of you (much), shadoweh

i am just in a somewhat snide mood right now

if it makes you feel better, you can call me grumpy stumpy

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:31 am

oh i know you sometimes bus. you did it in event card. but it was rather weak and non-committal - i think you have trouble interacting with scum partners in a way that isn't superficial

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:05 am

In post 1830, ActionDan wrote:How was my play this game?

in all honesty, it's pointless asking me, because i clearly wasn't one of the people you were trying to manipulate this game

i might write a summary of what i thought of your play and post it in the neighbourhood, and you can dig through my insane rambling post-game and try to find the post where i talk about it

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:12 pm

In post 1847, Kagami wrote:Ooba should fullclaim. In the unlikely event that he's town, then hopefully he gets shot because of how awesome and important his role is.

i agree with this

In post 1847, Kagami wrote:This is pretty cut and dry, let's double lynch katsuki and AD.

i'm not 100% on this atm

what do you think about relentless-AD interactions?

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:16 pm

and sakura vs cupcake after the SK claim

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:01 pm

it depends on whether the ability cupcake used N1 was a spellcard

fakegod clarified that

SOME

spellcards can be tracked, but (i'm pretty sure) it's arbitrary which ones can and which ones can't - there is a system to it though

*shrug*

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:04 pm

In post 1859, ooba wrote:
In post 1847, Kagami wrote:Ooba should fullclaim. In the unlikely event that he's town, then hopefully he gets shot because of how awesome and important his role is.

I've already claimed my passive. All investigative actions on me will fail.

You never explicitly claimed that (until now).

From what both you and Serenes said, it seemed that

all

actions would fail on you (which, of course, would include investigations but would not be limited to them).

Why didn't you just flat-out claim investigation immunity?

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:07 pm

In post 30, Serenes Forest wrote:My role is negative utility so target me at your own discretion.

I find this wording weird, because it suggests he's fine with being targeted, but was just giving out a warning.

Negative-utility can mean so many things, if you want to avoid investigative roles specifically, there is a better choice of wording.

Not that you can defend this, but still...

In post 899, ooba wrote:
@Muffin:
"@ooba, if I were to choose you as a gladiator candidate (which would technically involve declaring you as a target), would anything negative happen to me?"
Nothing would happen to you. People shouldn't waste stuff on me at night.

This was not in the context of an investigative role, and you didn't specify that it was limited to investigative roles.

Why?

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:39 pm

actually, meh, ooba probably is telling the truth

and

i've been thinking about it to myself and i think cupcake is town but, quite frankly, i don't give a shit and i don't want him in the game

we're at even numbers so a double lynch is good for (probably) taking us to odd numbers and i wouldn't shed a single tear at losing cupcake with the way he's playing

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:44 pm

yes, i'm advocating using the second lynch to policy lynch cupcake even though he probably is town

i think it's better for the game in the long run, even if it's not going to result in a second scum lynch

the alternative is leaving it til tomorrow and just single-lynching AD today

*shrug*

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:57 pm

i think youre town shadoweh

am i right, AD?

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:24 pm

did ooba ever explain the sakura interaction analysis

(i.e. how he came to the conclusions he came to)

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:33 pm

ooba,

can you remind me who you think is scum?

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:57 pm

i dont really care about ank he is probably town for the early game interactions with sakura around the spell card and then sakura voting him in an attempt to lock down his abilities

that group is just people i wouldn't be willing to bet the game on being town

i want to narrow it down by getting at least two more reads im confident in

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:58 pm

as in confident enough that we can just lynch the rest 1 by 1 without worry

xenogears style

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:58 pm

except i dont think any of you were in xenogears so that wouldnt make sense but whatever

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:15 pm

actually very little to do with the pushes but the way they interacted in general, particularly around the silly banana thing

(also didn't really think relentless looked like scum for other reasons)

i suppose just figure out which of ooba/cupcake/mala you want to lynch with dan today and go from there

more sacrifices as tribute to fakeGod!

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:18 pm

um, i dont really think mala is unique in calling AD town for not-amazing reasons

as for sakura, i dont think i remember that being explained but eh

mala could very well be scum, i guess. i'm just not as certain as id like to be and a large part of that is due to lack of content over the course of the game

which could be because she's scum

or could be because she's not heavily invested in the game regardless of her alignment

*shrug*

i'm indecisive, if it wasn't already obvious

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:50 pm

sure

you can do it with the second lynch if you _really_ want, too

i don't have a vote, so it's not up to me!

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:52 pm

i don't imagine she's ever gonna be among the people i would be sure is town

but the strongest case i can make against her is "meh, she thought scum was town and hasn't done really anything"

zMuffinMan · Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:10 pm

i'll sheep you with my vote, pieguy

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:57 pm

im not sure AD goes out of his way to call rylai-scum-with-him town based on a post that wasn't town in any way

but i havent read over rylai interactions in any depth yet (or rylai's posts in general)

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:59 pm

In post 1951, Kagami wrote:Muffzor, are you around?

not really!

my net's been down all day and now that it's back up i have stuff i need to do for a while so ive only sorta skimmed recent happenings

bbl

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:21 pm

call everyone scum (at different times over the course of the game, just make sure youve listed everyone at least once) and you can go back and point to it after they flip (or in post game, and blame town for not listening to your amazing reads)

works for me

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:28 pm

for example,

In post 271, zMuffinMan wrote:Sakura

In post 320, zMuffinMan wrote:is

In post 417, zMuffinMan wrote:scum

i said these words D1

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:38 pm

In post 2000, Ankamius wrote:In no fucking universe is that response town.

tbh, sky strikes me as a very titusy player (if that wasn't a word previously, i am now coining it)

have you ever actually read a post titus has written when she's town? i have. some nights i wake up in a cold sweat after having nightmares about it. but the point i'm trying to make here is that sky looks a lot like titus as a player. it

looks like

selective reading. or he doesn't seem to internalise

all

of the facts. i'm not really sure how i would describe it.

in any case, i sincerely doubt he's scum and, outside of perhaps the not-really-mason pair and SB, he is the last person i'd vote in this game (if i could still vote, but alas, stump suffrage is deemed one of the less important matters in society today)

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:46 pm

i mean no offense to sky (or titus, i guess), but while i have agreed with some of the things he's written, others just seem to be missing pieces of key information, forgetting certain events or aspects of the game, or thinking about it in a way that doesn't really make a lot of sense to me

i think that is a lot of the issue people have had with him over the course of the game

honestly, if he's scum here, then kudos to the scum team for the way they've interacted with each other in this game, but i do not think that is very likely

so unless you wanna point out why his interactions with scum look faked to you (or more likely fake than scum-town), i'd suggest you stop distracting from larger issues at the moment

because we get it already... you don't think he has a case on you

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:06 pm

In post 2007, pieguyn wrote:yo GIF

you wouldn't actually try and fake claim masons as scum with thdg, would you?

read page 2

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:15 pm

In post 1903, Katsuki wrote:Muffin quick question though, do you think I'm literally retarded as scum?

don't ask questions you don't want an answer to

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:25 pm

that was a joke (perhaps in poor taste), but here's the thing

i don't really think you're scum atm. but only because relentless's play looked town to me (or at least hit a lot of good notes for me). nothing you've done looks town to me, though. you can say, "oh that makes me town because id look town as scum" all you want, but that assumes you'd be able to get away with it and it ignores a lot of the reason i don't think you're town (interactions)

youre in a pool of people that aren't near-conf-levels of town

of that pool, i have far stronger reasons to call others town than i do to call you town based on either interactions or play (mostly a combination of both though)

there's no way you'd not be in this pool unless you somehow interacted with scum in a way that didn't make a lot of sense as scum-scum, but that's not how you play scum ime, so your play this game isn't why i think you're scum and no amount of "i would have played differently if i was scum" is going to change this

im kinda rambling here but whatever

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:33 pm

i mean, who do you think is scum cupcake?

you still havent answered that

here's a pool:

{you, ooba, ankamius, kilgy, shadoweh, rylai}

im fairly certain all the remaining scum is in this pool

of that pool,

i would call ankamius town for early sakura interactions and general play (even if i dont like some aspects of it) - this isn't particularly strong and i want to reassess this at some point but i haven't had time for it yet

ive already gone over shadoweh a little bit but i think she's more likely town than scum at the moment (still not gonna put her among the tier of people not in this pool)

kilgy's posts have

looked

town and i think his interactions with sakura kinda looked genuine and also im not sure how i feel about whether fakegod would include multiple multivoters in the game (this applies to shadoweh too) (it's inelegant and very unfakegod-like but eh, it's possible)

rylai i want to look at in a bit more depth before the day ends but i havent really yet outside of what i remember off the top of my head

and that leaves you and ooba who are town reading each other

*shrug*

if you think there's scum outside that pool, i'm all ears (or eyes, i guess, since i cant really hear your typing no matter how loud you make it)

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:39 pm

In post 2028, zMuffinMan wrote:im fairly certain all the remaining scum is in this pool

and yes, AD, i left you out of this pool because you're fairly obviously town!

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:41 pm

i may or may not do some reading / reassessing before i go to sleep tonight

i may or may not be lazy

zMuffinMan · Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:59 pm

btw cupcake

i am actually asking for your help. if you are town, talk about your reads. regardless of how good or shit they happen to be, they at least might give me a different perspective on things and potentially help me get a better read on you

im not sure the game is as simple as you/ooba so im probably looking at *something* incorrectly

or i might just be getting cold feet like i always do and it actually is just you/ooba

*shrug*

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:32 am

In post 2032, Katsuki wrote:ok if you're willing to look outside me/ooba/mala then a discussion can be had

well mala is kinda dead so i dont really have any problems with the idea she might be town

as for why there are so many people not voting *shrug* but it clearly doesn't mean a whole lot when there's

at most

2 scum in those players

In post 2034, ooba wrote:You keep saying this. But you weren't killed.

Also it was quite obvious that Dan was the lynch D2 - in the scenario where you're his scum partner, his termination of the day phase
(a) Saves you from Pie's bomb
(b) Also sets up this defence ('He did it to kill me')

(b) would be the only *actual* gain here (unless you don't believe sky has a day card, which seems rather easy to verify, or youre just saying that he did it to save sky's day card, but meh, seems a rather silly reason to do it)

i do not think (b) is likely given the timing of the whole situation. at the very least, i think suggesting (b) is what happened is stretching to fit your conclusion, especially given other interactions... which i'm interested in knowing whether you actually looked at regarding sky

(also it was not a given that AD was the lynch for the day at that point in time - given how many people were town-reading him, there was still a chance he could have swung a SB lynch if he tried)

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:49 am

im going to break down the important pieces of information here:

- SB has innos on him and fakegod explicitly said at the end of last game he wasn't going to do godfathers anymore. See:

Subject: Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

FakeGod wrote:But I don't think I will ever use godfather that investigates as town again. It punishes good town PR choices. I think godfather on which investigations fail on isn't too imbalanced though.

so he's town or fakegod's a jerkwad

- the not-really-masons are almost certainly town and i wouldn't even nuke them if they were left alive too long (because leaving them alive so town lynches one is what i'd do as scum, i'm going to make it clear that this is never going to happen). all i'm going to say about this is if you read p2 and don't understand the nuances of how it happened and still think they're scum, then you're not paying close enough attention. or i'm just really bad at this game. either is a possibility

- kagami, pieguy, sky. i don't think there's scum in these 3 primarily due to interactions with people we know to be scum (AD, sakura). i have minor play reasons to think sky and pieguy are town outside of that as well

those 3 are reads i'll probably go over tonight and solidify, but the chance that they're scum isn't really all that high to me

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:51 am

Spoiler:

these posts re: not-really-masons

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:52 am

27 comes after 22 which i didn't include

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:55 am

i really don't wanna go through all the interaction stuff right now so i'm not gonna bother, but i might pull up quotes overnight if i'm not lazy (and depending on who we lynch today and what they flip)

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:07 am

i need to read that wall again when im not tired

also need to read rylai's ISO properly because i haven't yet

am aware of deadline but meh

my eyes are dead atm

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:40 pm

In post 2017, Shadoweh wrote:Sakura was 'pushing' Rylai as a wagon, ie voted him and then never mentioned him again while attacking Sky constantly, and unvoted him for consolidation later. Rylai starts posting again, Sakura couldn't care less about him posting, asks once for his current reads, never looks back after Rylai posts them.

hmm, so i'm looking at this again and while i don't think the sakura interactions are anywhere near impossible to fake as scum, i don't think they point towards rylai being scum.

for example, at some point in the game sakura went "omg i need to rethink all my reads" and then comes up with "well my only scumread feels too easy: rylai". now, while this doesn't necessarily point to rylai being town, this is exactly the sort of line i've fed as scum before trying to justify some shit poe read on a lynchbait town player. that said, i could also see this from a "i dont want to bus" perspective but meh. *shrug*

another example would be sakura's question to rylais in 292 and rylai's answers in 366 (even though one is wrapped in quote fail). i mean there's nothing that couldn't potentially be faked easily here, but i thought this particular interaction didn't look like scum talking to scum (and about scum in the second question).

i think rylai's trajectory on AD makes *some* sense, but there's nothing (again) that can't be faked. i think AD's trajectory on rylai makes more sense as buddying (and this fits with my theory about AD buddying certain people from the other site and playing in a way to specifically get them to town read him). nothing super amazing here, but at least enough to make me unsure about rylai being scum.

i also think rylai's admission that he use the spellcard to get night-card immunity was town-looking. scum doing it for that reason, i think, is more likely to shut the fuck up about it so as not to draw attention to an ulterior motive, imo. but outside of that? not a whole lot looks town in his play, i guess. things i could see from town or scum. i *did* like the way he considered the sky read at the end of D1 (and the words he used to describe it) but eh.

this is my on-the-fence assessment of why rylai could be town or could be scum. i am really helpful

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:43 pm

though gun to head i'd say town

but that then just takes me back to ooba + cupcake and i dont know...

that just doesnt feel right to me atm

*shrug*

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:46 pm

or axe to my stump*

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:36 pm

In post 2035, Katsuki wrote:Skimmed Rylai and CM's done little outside of sheeping popular reads. Her ISO is surprisingly devoid of content. She's pushed ooba and I today while saying very little (aside from "scumslips are easy to make" which is lols (I've been lynched for scumslips as town before though, which is why this is a very lazy argument that tends to be used by scum to push mislynches over scumhunting town)).

i actually just realised that if you replaced some names here and took out the "scumslips" part, it would be an accurate assessment of your play for the most part

rylai is your top scum read and you wonder why other people might think youre scum

In post 2065, GuyInFreezer wrote:oh also massclaim tomorrow

agreed

full. everything. no "oh but i would rather keep this hidden so scum dont know about it"

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:55 pm

use the dual 3 plx. id prefer that to relying on kilgy's two single votes since so many things could go wrong with that (as kagami has pointed out)

also, i have no real opinion on cupcake vs ooba except that i sincerely doubt they're both town at this point (i'm not sure they're both scum, though)

this fence i'm sitting on is rather comfortable, the breeze is nice and the view is amazing. i would prefer it if you didn't tell me to come down

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:59 pm

i mean, i think i'd just say ooba at this point, mostly for the lack of commentary on the mala vig.

which, according to the last reads he gave, should automatically mean an ankamius+sky team

(which is all the more interesting, because that would make D1 interactions between the scum team hilarious if true)

the depth of his analysis this game has been rather lacking, all in all. it's very selective in some areas, and a lot of it hasn't been explained at all (i still want to know, for example, what interactions with sakura he thinks made cupcake unlikely scum with sakura)

the doubts im having about that are that i'm not sure about the sakura-oobaslot interactions D1 and i'm thinking about ooba's role and whether i think scum would true claim what he's claimed

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:00 pm

i suppose the cupcake-sakura thing must just be the SK thing?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:12 pm

well, if you have to go somewhere, maybe you can leave your cards in AD's care. i'm sure he'd be willing to use them for you

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:22 pm

i dunno

i'm going wrong somewhere in my analysis and i'm not sure where

help, ad

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:54 pm

that would take a while to do if i wanted to bring up relevant quotes

in a nutshell, though:

gif+thd not-really masons
SB inno

below that (in no particular order)

kagami for D1 interactions with AD+sakura - meh on play overall but hasn't looked overtly scummy
pieguy for D1 interactions with AD+sakura - minor play reasons too
sky for all-game interactions with AD+sakura - minor play reasons too

below that (in no particular order)

i have minor feelings that sakura voting you at the start of d1 was because she was scared of whatever you were alluding to with your claim (e.g. it points to you being town). i think you piling onto sky with AD+sakura is actually more a point in favour of you being town than scum. play-wise, i'm kinda meh, but i've liked some of the things you've written

shadoweh's general content has looked town to me for the most part. i'm not sure her role makes sense as a scum role, especially in tandem with sakura. there are *very minor* interactions which look townish

rylai i just went over, but there are small things about rylai's play that look town and very minor interaction things that make me think town

kilgy i dunno. content *looks* town. interactions with AD were pretty bad, interactions with sakura were town~ish looking. same role reasoning as shadoweh.

ooba-slot was pushed by sakura a bit during D1 (i'm not 100% sure on how to interpret this and nobody else seems to want to) and AD didn't really interact with it much. that's as much as i can say regarding interactions. re: play, i'd say scum mostly because i feel the reads lack depth and look a bit forced

and that leaves cupcake. relentless looked town~ish to me for play and minor interactions. that's it. cupcake's pushes have been really bad, his play has been really lacking, there's no real noteworthy interactions with anyone, let alone AD or sakura (outside of the SK thing, which i'm not sure how to interpret). it's nice that he put effort into writing a wall recently, but the analysis in that wall is really weak and misses a lot of information about the game

i mean...

i'd like it if ooba and cupcake were scum and the game was that easy, but i think i'm giving too much credit to someone (or someones) and i don't know where

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:19 pm

i think i made it clear there weren't any strong reasons to call rylai town

i also don't think there are strong reasons to call rylai scum anymore than, say, there were 'strong' reasons to call mala scum

what i can do is look at what's been provided and tell you what i think of it. and i have

if you disagree, it'd be more helpful for you to talk about which point/s you disagree with than have me go over it again

or talk about why rylai's play is so very scummy

i mean rylai could be scum, but (like with mala) the best case i can come up with is, essentially, "hasn't done much"

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:22 pm

it's not about whether it's difficult to see rylai as scum, but whether it's more likely that rylai is scum or town

i mean you can say there are limited interactions, but rylai wasn't around for over half the day phase (like i think rylai went almost a full 4.5 days without posting?) so rylai's interactions with *everyone* are limited

looking at what's there, it makes me feel more townish than scum

not by much, though

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:43 pm

the thing with point 3 is, again, that rylai disappeared for over half the day phase. so i mean... ok, let's use drezi as an example. after that initial case on rylai, nothing. why? because rylai wasn't here. meh.

the other two points may be correct

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:47 pm

what do you make of AD forcing the rylai read?

because that seems like too obvious an interaction to me, unless he was going for that angle (too obvious to be scum together).

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:24 pm

who else do you think is scum? sky?

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:35 pm

im more interested in your analysis of sky's interactions with scum than rylai's tbh

what do you make of what happened at the end of d1

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:44 pm

whatever

just make sure the day ends in an AD lynch one way or another

who else you lynch is up to you guys, i guess

i might read bits of the game over the night phase and try not to waffle on all my reads

this day should probably end one way or another though

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:54 pm

(it's actually incredibly easy to get any wagon going since it only requires 4 votes but whatever)

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:57 pm

ok

if possible, can you read for me overnight and then write lots of words tomorrow so i can be like "yeah that sounds right" and not have to read myself

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:12 pm

Fine, Shadoweh

Just for you

Vote: Ooba
Vote: ActionDan

zMuffinMan · Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:52 pm

it just hit me... shadoweh has been sending coded messages to her scum buddies by pretending to spell badly while "sleepy"... omg

zMuffinMan · Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:33 am

zMuffinMan · Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:35 am

what character?

zMuffinMan · Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:38 am

i thought he was nue

beloved princess? eeeehhhh

zMuffinMan · Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:40 am

did he claim the ability name?

zMuffinMan · Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:48 am

If Ooba is a town beloved princess that activates off lynches and didn't claim that, I'm gonna be pretty pissed. His role is exactly the sort of role that should have been claimed and dealt with by a vig early in the game because of potential complications an investigation-immune beloved princess presents later in the game. Even if it's a night-kill activated beloved princess, I still woulda claimed it D1.

zMuffinMan · Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:14 am

I think he still needs to be lynched today.

He's either scum

or

He's town who's dumb enough to keep this hidden until after all the vig shots are gone. Which is fucking annoying and extremely bad play. But still needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

It's not *so* bad if it happens today and he happens to be town. It's just... Really shit if he kept it hidden as town.

Still want to see the character claim and ability name.

I dunno. I can see hints at ooba setting it up by calling himself a bad lynch, but it's just so fucking stupid to not claim it D1 if he's actually a town investigation-immune beloved princess.

Like...

Fuck me.

I hope he's scum because wow.