Drawn on Arrival: The Movie: The Game (GAME OVER!)

[Reina]

VOTE: mastin2

I'm very supportive of Seraphim's plan to not care about who gets lynched until people start dying.

[Reina]

VOTE: mastin2

I'm very supportive of Seraphim's plan to not care about who gets lynched until people start dying.

If it doesn't matter who dies, you should vote theamateur instead.

pirate mollie and Heartless are both still incredibly town.

Not mattering who dies and not caring are different things, but sure.

VOTE: theamateur

Jesus christ I'm as bad at this as faraday aren't I.

[Reina]

Didn't see mastin's claim. My bad.

VOTE: Reina
193 is not town post.

I think you're making some assumptions about how I'm going to play the game based on my first post, and are voting me on that expectation of playstyle rather than the actual statement I made.

I also think that trying to get 14 players on a single wagon is going to be a generally frustrating and miserable experience if people take it too seriously and there isn't enough grease for the wheels.

[Reina]

So I got around to reading the game and amatuer doesn't seem particularly scummy actually.

Heartless looks a little town too but I never like "i'm town because of my role" arguments, and the neg-utility role they have could theoretically be scum, the PGO would be the only weird thing to give to scum and it'd be fine one out of every 5 days in a game this big.

VOTE: BipolarChemist

I am pretty serious about wanting dead things faster than normal though so if you have a decent wagon you want me on poke me with reasons and I can probably join if they're not awful.

[Reina]

yeaaah voted BPC because I saw someone else's vote for him and looked at him and didn't see anything that looked town, but I think that was an RVS vote so it's all gone now

Gonna jump on this since mollie asked though and I don't remember him/her doing anything at all

VOTE: ika

[Reina]

If you (as in any of you other 26 players) think bandwagon hopping is a scumtell by the way you might as well start voting me now, because you're going to be out for my blood by the end of the day anyway.

[Reina]

Still fine with my ika vote.

Don't really like mastin's posting but it's mostly her pushing that she's conf. town which although is actually manipulative is something town and scum both do because it helps them and they can get away with it.

Farside's read on mastin seems overthought for how early in the game all of mastin's posts are that she's discussing but it's not really scummy from farside either.

Shaft's post asking about the case on ika and also saying that he won't be getting on it felt a little off to me, I'd actually vote him if he was being wagoned atm.

Because this is a large game I'm fully expecting someone to come in and start talking about the 'speed of wagons' soon and I am pre-emptively saying that speed of wagons is always useless informationless garbage and if you're looking for an excuse to derail a wagon on someone who hasn't done anything town themselves yet than you're probably contributing more to a convoluted unreadable day 1 than most of the scum themselves will be. If you think someone's town because of reasons that you put into words or someone's clearly scummier because also words then fine but if you bring up wagon bullshit in a game this big I will hate your guts.

[Reina]

So I'm not absolutely 100% on ika being scum.

But he seems to have a pretty fine chance of being scum and mollie is now super super town, and I am basically ecstatic to have that as an actual legitimate reason for a day 1 lynch instead of the normal clusterhell of opinions that makes everyone disinterested in the game and ensures that they never read back later to make better opinions.

So go go ika lynch it's the best come join us i believe in all of you and more words that say similar things!

[Reina]

I think ika immediately starting to do isos instead of reading the thread normally and commenting on what stood out for him is a little bit more likely to come from scum than town, to me it seems more likely that scum would see that they needed to look town and start trying to look town with a reads list.

The alternative is the possibility of town coming in and deciding to iso everyone after just 20 pages in a game this big, it's a little unlikely that he'd be thinking that there'd be a ton of info to be gained by isoing everyone given that there's only 20 pages in a 27 player game.

[Reina]

i like literally every one of reina's posts this is pleasant but... uh

No buts, everybody's getting on the Reina train tonight.

awwwwww yyeahhhhhhhhh

[Reina]

GILGAMESH!

I REQUEST YOUR PRESENCE AT THE BEHEADING OF OUR ENEMIES.

[Reina]

king dude - apparently an alt with 2 posts. this means i now have the fun of trying to find out who it is.

ignored untill i find out who is the alt

Why are you bothering to find out, exactly?

I'm still bad at alts

[Reina]

Avatar is of Pepe Reina, but that isn't exactly why I chose the name, might explain later.

augh

[Reina]

Don't particularly want to share it. Sorry friend.

[Reina]

Don't particularly want to share it. Sorry friend.

-.-

It's comparatively useless information compared to my actual play, and I'd rather not give you an excuse to have a read on me based on something completely irrelevant to my actual alignment. (i did make the alt before I got my role PM.)

[Reina]

ika wagon has a damn solid basis and aside from like farside voting someone else for an actual reason it seems like most everyone else is either looking for reasons why ika's town to be contrary or basing things off of awful, awful wagon/pairing analysis with TWENTY-SEVEN unflipped players currently in the game.

vote ika, lynch scum, deal with other problems tomorrow

[Reina]

Hi guys.

I'll probably start reading this N1. <3 you all

While I'm still waiting for a moment of clarity, I think we should definitely punish posts like these.

vote BRO

Ugh, I'm obviously not getting my lynch on BRO, so I'll have to compromise and actually read the game.
Mollie, how sure of you on this Ika read?

I had a snow day today, and tomorrow. And I will also
VOTE: BROseidon

HEY GUYS I FOUND IKA'S SCUMBUDDIES

That's so boring though

How about one of them can be his scumbuddy

and if you REALLY want to push it one can be his scumbuddy and one can be another scumteam or a 3rd party

but just because they're all being oblivious to the most legit lynch of 2015 in the same way doesn't make them all scum with ika

[Reina]

I think ika immediately starting to do isos instead of reading the thread normally and commenting on what stood out for him is a little bit more likely to come from scum than town, to me it seems more likely that scum would see that they needed to look town and start trying to look town with a reads list.

The alternative is the possibility of town coming in and deciding to iso everyone after just 20 pages in a game this big, it's a little unlikely that he'd be thinking that there'd be a ton of info to be gained by isoing everyone given that there's only 20 pages in a 27 player game.

This is definitely cognant, and if you have an read on someone else for something stronger than *they be lurking in a scummy way mon* then go be convincing about it.

Additionally, burdens are dumb. Fuck 'em.

[Reina]

Damn it guys. It's a 27 player game. You are always always always going to have people playing just like ika. They're lazy, guilty people and they feel like they have to do something and unable to do anything. The 'insight' that isoing people in a 20 page, 26 player game offers little info just isn't a sufficiently common sentiment here on MS for it to be factored into scum reads.

This is a fair point at least and I'd probably give it a bit more credence if ika had posted literally anything that looked town.

But he hasn't, and I do think that type of behavior IS more likely, if not guaranteed, to be coming from scum.

I also think that his isos of at least one person (maybe more, dont have time to check now) stating that he needs to read the thread to actually have a read on them is indicative that he's not doing the isos in order to get a better read on the players, he's just doing it for the sake of doing the iso.
Isoing someone and then not bothering to go into the context of the posts around it if you don't have a read on them AND think that reading more would help is not actually a scumhunting mindset.

[Reina]

Can't we at least stall this lynch for a couple of little-d days?

Yes.

UNVOTE:

We have 14 days. I don't think we need to use all of it, but we could use more of it than this.

I understand the logic behind this but i don't think it works at all in practice.

When people just stall the lynch for reads just for the sake of having more information, it becomes much easier for scum to make stances that have very little actual effect on the gamestate, making it much easier for them to fabricate town-looking reads and spend time analyzing the players and how they can avoid being pushed by individual players by avoiding or engaging in specific behaviors. It also makes it much less likely for everyone to put in the time and effort to reread the early game much later in the game, when a lot of what looks useless now might actually have game relevance given other player's flips.

If you want reads from a specific subset of people before the day ends then go ahead and ask them, but I really dislike stalling everything for the sake of using all of our time.

[Reina]

jackal - im pretty sure i know his role already

[retracted]

marquis - trying to figure out what the dolpin stuff was for. other then that i havent seen much

null-town

ikaaaa

[Reina]

^Don't really think so

I think I can see why you'd think that but the possibility of multiple scumteams AND that ika hasn't done aaaaaaanything at all ever that looks town makes me disagree.

[Reina]

actually i haven't read ika's recent stuff yet and at a glance it looks very slightly not awful

maybe i can do amateur instead, i'll take a look after work.

[Reina]

no, i'm sorry mollie

UNVOTE:

he actually sounds kind of genuine in his post about a claim not changing anything, although might as well bug him now at least

HEY IKA
-What is the most interesting thing in the game that you think could be related to the alignment of a player?
-What posts have you really liked or not liked as you've gone through the game so far?

as much as it'd be satisfying to try to swing everything onto amateur when he thinks I could be scum for *nonexistent reasons* I don't actually see much of an indication that he'd actually flip scum either

Probably going to be busy until late tonight though, I'll find someone to vote then.

bad at alts 4ever

UNVOTE:

[Reina]

I've unvoted so he's still at 12 votes, @Psyche- I don't really get why you'd vote him now?

[Reina]

Pssyyyyche

Is *he's prob scum or VT* really enough on its own for you when you to change your mind when you've been going on about it for so long? Like a power role heavy/heavyisshh game is fairly likely but that not enough that I would want to change based on it being a relatively non-harmful thing in your position.

[Reina]

eh. I don't think I can

completely

justify letting ika live if he doesn't bother getting in here and posting some reads real soon but I kind of do want him to actually bother at this point : /

[Reina]

and to anyone feeling snippy those iso's don't count because they're basically the most fakeable reads in the whole damn world.

[Reina]

euuugh is my vote stuck?

HEY MODS

UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:

[Reina]

On the bright side since I'm not voting ika anymore now I can be legitimately threatening

HEY IKA get in and post things (detailed reads/thoughts on particular parts of the game would be pretty good) within 25 hours or I'm gonna kill ya.

Granted, this is no guarantee that someone else won't kill you before that time limit

so sooner is better

[Reina]

someone remind me to claim a thing after everyone checks in

it's not like the most important thing in the world but it's pretty cool and seems helpful to claim

[Reina]

Ok, so I was wrong about ika.
But look how well I did despite being wrong about ika.

More pending.

no

get out

i agree with this and also

Okie.
So someone fucked with me last night.
And today's mission is to fuck with them.

:3

i guess i can just claim now

my action on you got turned into a cop by

someone else

and yeah you are not mafia
but i would be happier if you would just talk a little less to be honest

and to whoever the

someone else

is:
you're cool
don't target me tonight though, i'm not using any abilities tonight.

your friend,
Reina

[Reina]

you're a friggin idiot

a) don't be a cunt
b) stop making dumb assumptions.
>:3

[Reina]

Seraphim claiming that his role doesn't get notified when another role does is NOT AT ALL indicative of him being scum in a game with bastard mod elements.

If you think he's scum for how he played yesterday then explain that but I think his play is likelier to be town than scum here.

[Reina]

VOTE: Broseidon

[Reina]

I'll reread Seraphim in a bit I guess. I don't really like voting him because he's likely multiball scum either though given that it's not really confirmed multiball yet (although I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is).

[Reina]

also why you would do it as scum seems pretty simple to me? if it's generally accepted that you got shot by scum but blocked it with a vest, then you don't get lynched basically ever and look like conf. town because of it.

[Reina]

Yeah I reread a little and disagree with pretty much everything you wrote in that last paragraph there Heartless

-Him creating/causing the 1v1 in the first place is way way more likely to come from town

-He sees a pretty clear possible scum motivation from you trying to become conf. town and is confident enough about it to try to use everything that possibly points to you being scum to get you lynched

-"isn't a town way to go about a 1v1" honestly feels like a really bullshit copout about what he's doing being antitown and not good play instead of why it's more likely to be coming from scum behaviorally.

don't want to lynch him at all.

[Reina]

I'm not saying you're currently doing that because that doesn't seem particularly likely to me either

but it IS a really clear motivation that sera sees and his posts make sense given that.

[Reina]

but yeah seraphim is still scum and still dying

why do you think sera is scum?

[Reina]

but it IS a really clear motivation that sera sees and his posts make sense given that.

if you completely ignore common sense, yes i agree

the fact that him getting his panties in a bunch came right on the heels of tth's case doesn't exactly suggest the purity of motives you seem to want to give him the benefit of the doubt for

he didn't show up to day 2 until after you both made the case on him and claimed that

like it's not great but it also isn't SLAM DUNK SCUMZVILLE either

[Reina]

like I'll think about it i guess
but sera deciding to kill heartless because they're bulletproof still seems kind of dumb? like targeting a negative role in general for the kill even without the PGO seems kinda silly, having a bulletproof go kill it specifically instead of waiting a day or just leaving it for a real long time seems pretty weird.

i'll wait for a response about him having heartless as a town read yesterday though, didn't remember that.

[Reina]

jesus I just typed up this big ol' post and now you're selfvoting

a) fuck self-voting
b) Sera you have some reads aside from Heartless probably. What are they?

[Reina]

why Arist? and why the certainty for theamateur being scum? you might have already said the second part but I could use a refresher.

[Reina]

mollie's just town

h8ers

Now, as to why Arist is town? It's gut. He seems honest and earnest as opposed to someone looking to act a certain way.

Which posts of his in particular?

[Reina]

wait wait hold on

hold on i need to say this

MOMENTUM OF WAGONS IS SUCH MEANINGLESS GARBAGE

it's based on the individual choices of 4 different people, at least half of which are pretty much guaranteed to be not scum by statistics and that it'd be plainly moronic for all the scum to pile on a counterwagon when Sera's is that big, nevermind that again I think that nobody on BRO's actual wagon looks particularly scummy.

Okay yeah that's it I'll be back later

[Reina]

I don't think seraph saying "your scumteam etc" really means anything, it's just the typical bullshit that players of both alignments spew out when they're accusing someone of being scum and think that they have a role-related argument for them being scum.

Give me til tonight to think about Seraphim a bit more.

@Sera-

mollie's just town

h8ers

Now, as to why Arist is town? It's gut. He seems honest and earnest as opposed to someone looking to act a certain way.

Which posts of his in particular?

[Reina]

@Psyche-Their posting is surface-level fine but still not sure about them being town at all.

[Reina]

Really wanted Sera to actually show up and answer my questions and go into more detail of his reads : /

If he doesn't by tonight I guess I can vote him and get everything going towards day 3.

[Reina]

Anyone who thinks I'm scum is literally a dumbass who should never play mafia again

Personally I find it easier to read people who aren't engaging in grandoise posturing bullshit

A detailed read on someone who isn't mollie would help too, just because if you're paying attention mollie's pretty damn unlikely to be mafia given her push on ika yesterday.

[Reina]

Really wanted Sera to actually show up and answer my questions and go into more detail of his reads : /

If he doesn't by tonight I guess I can vote him and get everything going towards day 3.

You absolutely insisted Sera was town and your current wagon is viable. What's with this post?

bro wagon seemed to be dying out before you jumped on it after I did that

Also I'm not actually thaaat confident in Sera-town without him having some detailed reads to go over in addition to the 1v1 stuff. Cause I do feel like doing the 1v1 in that way is more likely to be town but I'm more likely to be wrong about that if he isn't putting up other reads that I can sift through and analyze.

[Reina]

Well i know he didn't give outside reads beforehand

I asked him specifically for them and thought he would, and he didn't

You can believe what you want i guess though.

[Reina]

Like not giving outside reads when there's a ton of stuff going on all around you

and not giving outside reads after specifically being asked for outside reads

are pretty clearly different imo.

[Reina]

Like not giving outside reads when there's a ton of stuff going on all around you

and not giving outside reads after specifically being asked for outside reads

are pretty clearly different imo.

So you think he's purposefully dodging your question?

not really intentionally? it's just that I think it takes a long time to come up with actual legitimate looking reads as scum since you don't constantly have people's alignments in your head as the game goes on, and if he's scum he knows that coming in with something mediocre is just going to get him lynched, so he might be waiting until the last minute to do them maybe well enough to save him

and I think that having legitimate reads is kind of the most readable thing you can do in the game and I'm a lot less comfortable pushing to save someone if they look like they aren't going to put anything up that might indicate that

and i kind of just want to stall until sera gets in here and if the reads are actually really likely coming from town then i can go ham on actually convincing people to not lynch him, but there's pretty clearly a point where I have to assume he's not going to bother and question whether my read on him is actually correct, especially with the amount of people that do see a scum motivation for what he's doing.

[Reina]

@heartless- I get why you'd/they'd be scumreading me but I've explained my thought process here pretty much to the best of my ability, and it's not like you saying that is going to change anything at all here. Personally I'd rather you stop going on about me for so many posts when I'm clearly not going to be lynched today and probably not tomorrow either and it kind of just feels like filler content that isn't going to help anyone read either of us at this point, but I doubt you're going to change how you're playing just because I think it's potentially a way for scum to produce content with a little bit less potential for meaningful connections.

[Reina]

@Psyche-Their posting is surface-level fine but still not sure about them being town at all.

if this isn't filler i don't know what is. you're doing the exact same thing to us and we're even less likely to be lynched than you.

if you're going to scold tth for asking you how the fuck your sera read is evolving, you look hypocritical when you fling shit at us for no substantiated reason

i was asked a question so i answered it

just feels like i'm trying to share opinions and thought processes because you're asking me about them and you're just poking at my play when none of your comments are actually going to matter for several more days

[Reina]

man i bet if i hammered Sera now Heartless would go completely insane

I probably will hammer if sera doesn't come do things before I get back from the bar tonight though.

[Reina]

@sera- i'm fine with your arist read but theamatuer has been indicating reads and thoughts that look a bit townish day 2 I think, if you had a magical gun that could shoot anyone except theamateur who would you shoot?

[Reina]

i was asked a question so i answered it

you weren't asked shit, get off your high horse

fine, psyche asked a question to the game as a whole and i answered it

you can think i'm scummy for being hypocritical and all that jazz and that's fine but it's not like us talking about your read of me is going to be anything except an attention-hogging waste of time for the next 2 game days at least

@mollie- if i remember right ika got hammered after i said I'd hammer him that night or something like that
and I like poking people when they're near death to see if anything particularly town bleeds out

[Reina]

@mollie-quote the arguments you're talking about for me (although i should have left to go do things like half an hour ago so I probably won't answer til late tonight)

are you asking why i'm not poking broseidon? he's not really giving anything to poke at, I asked him to give a read on not-you earlier and he hasn't bothered with it yet.

@heartless- I'm not trying to play coy, I'm just trying to explain why I'm doing the things I'm doing to the best of my ability, but it's a lot of explanations of gut feelings for what I've done around sera in particular so it isn't the easiest thing to actually explain. passive aggressive is probably fair, but the words I've said are how I feel about your play and changing them to be nicer would defeat the point of saying it in the first place.

[Reina]

@mollie-quote the arguments you're talking about for me (although i should have left to go do things like half an hour ago so I probably won't answer til late tonight)

are you asking why i'm not poking broseidon? he's not really giving anything to poke at, I asked him to give a read on not-you earlier and he hasn't bothered with it yet.

@heartless- I'm not trying to play coy, I'm just trying to explain why I'm doing the things I'm doing to the best of my ability, but it's a lot of explanations of gut feelings for what I've done around sera in particular so it isn't the easiest thing to actually explain. passive aggressive is probably fair, but the words I've said are how I feel about your play and changing them to be nicer would defeat the point of saying it in the first place.

I am asking you why no vote on d1 especially on ika. cos I wanna map out your reason for staying off that lynch. or any1 for that matter.

and then I am asking you as to why you are not applying the same logic to bro as you are to seraph right now so that I can understand.

@ anti

stop aggro-ing reina give him at least a bit of breathing room pretty plz?

ika saying that his claim didn't matter struck me as something town would be more likely to say than scum

and then he didn't bother giving reads and I said I would revote (and I think probably hammer if my memory is correct) that night and boonskiies hammered before I got there.

Sera's kinda similar in that I think his reaction to heartless looked very town, but his posts that aren't about that look worse to me, and getting his opinions on anything aside from heartless feels like pulling teeth, and considering how close he is to death that REALLY shouldn't be the case.

if it makes you feel better if i could kill bro and sera at the same time i totally would

along with several other people but that's not really the point.

gamma wouldn't give tth the fucking time of day on the seraphim case but wants to give her this dismissive, supercilious, smug "well no one suspects me therefore it's scummy to suspect me" horse shit once she starts questioning him on the 180 on sera that YEAH, IS KIND OF WEIRD.

don't appreciate that. not standing for that.

at all.

if you're really so outraged and actually think what I'm doing means I'm likely scum then vote me for it. At least then it'll actually be clear that you're actually willing to stake something, even if it's as small as just having to reverse a read later, on everything that you're saying about me.

[Reina]

BRO's town. vote sera.

The fact that Boonskies is demonstrating a higher level of intelligence here than players like mollie, Psyche, and gamma should be disconcerting.

it'd probably be helpful to your enjoyment and understanding of the game if you get that everyone isn't working off the same scum-do-this theories and essentially unending depth of knowledge of your own play that you are.

second sentence isn't sarcastic, you have enormously more information about your own play and why you do the things that you do than everyone else in the game, especially with the majority of us having basically none.

Do you have a detailed read of someone who isn't mollie that you could share?

still me

[Reina]

@Sera-eh

it is worse than i remembered it being but his comments on ika and me aren't the worst things that ever happened

and i don't think that tunnelling on one player like that is super indicative of scum.

I guess I just want thought processes from you about other players instead of just X is scummy because they fit this characteristic/are doing this broadish thing?

[Reina]

bro's explanation of why he protected mollie despite scumreading her yesterday and today needs to happen

[Reina]

I have a new opinion

that opinion is fuck everything that's currently happening

VOTE: Hostile Intent
estival i will also probably consider but I don't want to read things right now.

[Reina]

woop boop a doop

VOTE: BROseidon

[Reina]

oh

if it's a joke doctor claim then pretend i didn't woop boop

i do think that like everyone in the current clusterfuck has an okayish chance of being town at least so if there isn't role shenanigans then hostile intent seems like a pretty good vote mollie

[Reina]

VOTE: estival

[Reina]

reina, can't remember anything you posted so boring naked vote means put some clothes on as its boring.

Does anyone else notice jackel trying to setup a fake claim for a priest\role cop or cop role? I know its fake because he seems to be implying something about my alignment which is wrong unless he's scum talking to his scum friends.

Your last two posts about jackal are awful and I think you should die for them.

[Reina]

@estival- I think you're scum. There's a second thing that I might bring up later but the main one is that the roundabout way you're threatening jackal with a lynch, right after you think he might be talking about having information regarding you, is really, very, incredibly bad.

[Reina]

I didn't threaten him with a lynch? What and where and what? I've been poking fun at him having a frog avatar for a while now (see ISO).

Flubber, I haven't liked you in any game.

your post towards him (#1778) is very clearly accusatory in how you're framing his behavior (refusing to partake in the three wagons) and jokingly threatening to him. The joking way you're prodding at him while still implying through your wording that he's scum and should be lynched is a scumtell, and that it comes right after he says something that MIGHT imply that he has some information about you is absolutely murderworthy.

I absolutely want you lynched today at this point and I very very very much do not want to compromise on this.

[Reina]

Why are you defending him? Do you have any actionable evidence to try to defuse pressure on another player? I doubt it therefore either you're aligned or your playstyle is anti-town.

hey guys

hey

hey

estival is scum

help me lynch him/her/it

[Reina]

I will be present to help the estival wagon happen very shortly.
Shaft should do words first.

siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

can't we just lynch scum instead of waiting for words that can happen tomorrow instead

i feel like you'd just be disappointed if you bothered waiting anyway

but seriously estival is obvscum. sera hammering is fine.

[Reina]

gammaaaaaaaaaa i am liking your posts much less now

i would literally bet the game on estival being scum here

immediately deflecting with literally made-up nonsense about how I'm defending jackal and a bullshit statement about how i'm either anti-town or i'm acting like it (but never mind trying to read me and specify which, that would involve trying to do something that isn't just discrediting me for thinking estival is scum) is REAL basic scum behavior here.

[Reina]

@marquis-no, it's not. if est had immediately accused me of being scum maybe. immediately fencesitting about it and deflecting is newbie scum. absolutely 100%.

like if you want go skim my iso from gay mafia 2, thunderhog had a kind of sort of similar newbie scum tell that i exploded on him for there. This type of behavior is scum and I'm pretty damn good at identifying it.

@estival- jackal's probtown because you're showing obvious scum behaviors and you thought that it might be a legitimate information claim about you (which if you'll notice he never explicitly claimed, you assumed that) and immediately tried to deflect that possibility and discredit his alignment.

Also, jackal has like one vote on him. He's not under pressure, you're full of shit.

[Reina]

And Bookitty yes most females do have such drama, even on this site which is why the LOL and it didn't even involve me which is why your naivety is sweet and funny. I'm not terribly evil in RL either but if a basic bitch messes with me then she's going to be put down. It must be nice to never have been part of the cliquery.

mebbe they crying at how terribad at mafia you are I mean I have only known you 5 minutes and I already kind of want to start crying myself as well gauge my eyeballs with a very dull butter knife and then rip out my own intestines and hang myself with them.

the only 1 who is me dramatic and emotional is you which is ironic.

this is a bad cw on an unlikeable player to the beautiful scum lynch on shaft who i am pretty sure he is scum for how he is acting in our hood. I am giving him 20 minutes to do something amazing and then I am going to outline why this is such a glorious lynch.

cheery if you do not stop tunneling I will knock the shit out of you.

Mollie

Mollie

Cheery's argument is boringish (although personally I think it's correct too) but estival is actually obviously scum and I am SUPER RIDICULOUSLY confident about this.

Read over the page of the game (and the next page too I think) where estival reacts to jackal's saying he's a townie with information and that he thinks estival is scum.

-estival saw that and thought that jackal claimed information about him.
-estival then immediately goes and doesn't immediately say that 'jackal is scum because he said this about me and its wrong', but attacks jackal not voting one of the 3 major wagons in a way to discredit that information.

-afterwards I say that I think estival is very likely scum and he reacts the same way to me, immediately saying that the way I'm attacking him and not paying attention to jackal is EITHER anti-town or because I'm scum, and I very strongly think this was to discredit me as well. (because it sure isn't because he thinks I'm scum when he's explicitly stating I could be either one)

Estival is verrrry clearly trying to attack someone for other reasons than what he's saying he's attacking them for, and that's 100% newbie-scum behavior.

[Reina]

Read over the page of the game (and the next page too I think) where estival reacts to jackal's saying he's a townie with information and that he thinks estival is scum.

This is #1778 by the way, jackal saying he's a townie with information is on the page before that, his reactions to me are on the same page as 1778 and the page after I think.

@cheetory- >.> I saw someone else do it and thought it was a nickname

[Reina]

And how do most people feel about Reina stating that reading an ISO is useless? I mean 4anxiety asked me to ISO two players so Reina calling it useless, wtf?

Reina, I answered your point. I was a seer and had 3/4 of the scum team pegged but one of the had been fake crumbing\etc. to the point where I thought someone must have messed with my reads and yeah town lost so there's a reason I'm calling out someone who so clearly is fake claiming.

Your refusal to even take a look at him in ISO or otherwise, is what's pinging me as off.

a)That is nowhere near my point
b)

And how do most people feel about Reina stating that reading an ISO is useless? I mean 4anxiety asked me to ISO two players so Reina calling it useless, wtf?

This is one of the worst attempts to discredit me I have ever seen.

[Reina]

I don't have a ton of time to post today, so everyone's gonna get a thought summary instead of individual questions answered until probably tomorrow sometime.

I am REALLY confident in estival being scum here. I understand that the site he came from has a lot of very catty players but this is NOT immediately calling the people attacking her scum. This is her immediately trying to discredit the people who are attacking her, ESPECIALLY a person who he thought had ROLE INFORMATION against him, without actually calling either of us scum.

In addition, I think I've done pretty well at explaining my read on estival, and his response is to attack me for "defending jackal", which is completely untrue when I'm just attacking estival for his behavior, and I agree with bookitty that his behavior change and remarking on it being scummy to "act nice" while doing that himself earlier is very likely to be coming from scum.

I really feel that this isn't just "playstyle behavior", and that the people he's chosen to attack at the times he has pretty clearly points to a scum mindset.

[Reina]

There's a trail from the ika flip that leads straight back to Shaft. Early on in Post 462, Shaft asked for a case on ika and refused to vote him. His opinion changed in Post 629 without much explanation and he occupied a late position on the wagon (9/14). The push on Cheetory was never any good either. Now a scum-driven counterwagon on a relatively easy target crops up while Shaft disappears into this mist of a mysterious neighborhood thread.

Heartless I don't mean any of this personally.

I despise that you're dismissing estival as a "scum-driven counterwagon" when I think he's very clearly showing scum motivation in his posting after being attacked by Jackal, especially given how flawed I view most early attempts of finding scum through "this person was bussing/not bussing/didn't fit my expectations for behaving around X wagon". I think you're basing too much on your early town and scum reads and how they're voting and not actually examining the case on estival beyond dismissing it because of his playstyle.

I also think that scumhunting that way is very manipulatable, very likely to be incorrect this early because of how it's the 'default' way of attacking people on this site and scum try very hard to play around it, and that trying to find scum through examining individual people's motivations and behavior is much much more likely to actually find scum.

Lastly, I don't push my normal reads with this much confidence. I save these gigantic pushes and tirades for when I am actually confident enough that my opinion is correct based on the behavior of the person I'm pushing that I'm willing to say that I think my opinion is actually worth more than anyone else's RIGHT NOW, and then on the off-chance that I'm not dead afterwards usually go back into the background and let other people push their big scum reads. (relatively background at least, I'm still a pretty active poster regardless.)

I'm not trying to do any bullshit "I'm better than you so lynch my scum read" nonsense and I hate that kind of dickwaving. But I am damn good at reading relatively new players based on their behavior (Gay Mafia II http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4546939, Persona 3 FES http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6586663) and I think that estival is hitting those same types of behaviors.

okay now seriously i need to go do shit and not spend more time on this game today.

[Reina]

Reina can barely get genders right, but his case on why shaft is not scum means shafts flip should give town info on him and his possible associates.

If you want to be called she then set it on your profile, it's not hard

and I haven't ever made anything even remotely resembling a case on shaft.

[Reina]

If this is what you believe then demand town to have Reina hammer me. It's the only way this isn't going to be one of those fucktardingly boring games where every day the same moronically inclined bring up the same people for stupid reasons.

Reina, again do you have what it takes?

To be honest I don't think I'll have to, and I'd prefer to have someone else hammer on the very off-chance you're a scum vengeful, but if it's what it takes to get you lynched then I can do that.

Do you have any reason for thinking I'm scum aside from my attacks on you by the way? What made you change your mind from when you were saying I was either playing in an antitown way Or was scum?

And before you bring up shaft that 'passive aggressive' post you're talking about me making, the point of that post was primarily to point out the reasons why I think Heartless's defense of you is seriously flawed, not to defend Shaft, and you saying that 'defending shaft' is what the whole post is doing when MAYBE one sentence of it could be construed as saying something like that, and even that sentence has me summarizing the point I'm making there with

and that trying to find scum through examining individual people's motivations and behavior is much much more likely to actually find scum.

.

It's pretty clearly manipulative.

[Reina]

I'd actually pretty seriously consider lynching Shaft if I wasn't so confident in my read on you

you're lying about what I said again and everyone's going to shrug it off as you being a craaaazy newbie instead of actually analyzing your play for motivation (though to be fair the earlier stuff against jackal and I was scummier than this)

other scum reads atm are 4nxi3ty and maybe hostile intent

Do you have any reason for thinking I'm scum aside from my attacks on you by the way? What made you change your mind from when you were saying I was either playing in an antitown way Or was scum?

Answer the question please.

SO Reina, will you or won't you hammer? Because the whole "hopefully someone else will do it" is really bs and cowardly.

Already said I would to get you lynched in literally the same post that you're commenting on now.

Also I should mention that asking questions that you don't give a shit about the answers to and that exist solely to discredit other players and their reads is a pretty blatant scum tactic.

[Reina]

@cheetory- actually sera said he'd revote est if the wagon got big enough, mollie's considering it and is a double voter, Gilga has a probably decent chance of voting estival once he posts if he's actually caught up, and psyche i'd think would vote est too?

[Reina]

mollie i have no idea what you're talking about

est is basically claiming supersaint, not vig

[Reina]

i guess i'll explain anyway

i don't think it's likely at all est is a real supersaint. the purpose of claiming when she did was solely to threaten people off of her wagon. but because she claimed supersaint it's slightly more likely that she's scum and a supersaint than normal.
it'd be nice if we could point that at another possible scum and if she is a scum supersaint force the kill to go where we want but given that a third of the game seems to think that blatant lying, intentional manipulation, and obvious scum motivation is just because *oh THOSE SILLY newbies* I'm willing to hammer if it'll actually make her dead.

So yeah est I'll unvote once you get to L-1.

[Reina]

^I had my action changed, it wasn't a protective thing

[Reina]

@mollie- The Critic posted what the role does, it's kind of 'find out what their ability does and block then it if you want'

have I mentioned that estival is scum recently?

cause estival's pretty scum

[Reina]

I love all the pple who are not spamming this thread.

but mollie

after-lynch thread spamming is good for the soul

[Reina]

*shrug* I'm not a fan of being goaded into doing something by scum. Wasn't actually here last night either but you're not wrong that I didn't want to hammer you if someone else was willing.

I gotta say this whole Brave schtick is getting kinda silly though

@mollie- just let it all out. relaxxxxxxxxx

[Reina]

:3

[Reina]

So its theoretically possible that est is scum unlynchable with some conditional thing to make it balanced but its probably more likely that im just bad at this game. Jesus damn Christ do I hate all the twisting and cherry picking of my posts she did to attack me when I was explaining why I find her scummy though.

VOTE: shaft

[Reina]

So its theoretically possible that est is scum unlynchable with some conditional thing to make it balanced but its probably more likely that im just bad at this game. Jesus damn Christ do I hate all the twisting and cherry picking of my posts she did to attack me when I was explaining why I find her scummy though.

VOTE: shaft

we can just lynch estival every day from now on

I was actually thinking the same thing

so yes, please yes

[Reina]

estival you're kind a drama-tornado in how you've been responding to people in a lot of this game, like whatever your actual alignment is that is a true fact.

[Reina]

mmm

still gonna do this for unlynchable testing

VOTE: estival

might wanna lynch gilga afterwards, i'll think about it later

[Reina]

hey bro could you tone down the arrogance to like

below donald trump levels

it's fine to be proud of your reads and all but you're bein' a bit of a dick

[Reina]

also, aero didn't get bus driven because aristo didn't die.

[Reina]

but then your vest doesn't get hit in the second case.

Really there are two possibilities that I see as plausible here.

a) Aero didn't read his role carefully enough and thought that "global" action immune meant he was immune to pretty much all actions (this is probably what happened)
b) you're just some sort of scum who tried to pull off a gambit after legit targeted you but not any actual kills

everything else basically relies on other people targeting you knowing they're gonna die and magically getting saved with protective junk.

[Reina]

after farside* legit targeted you

also psyche is still conftown

[Reina]

can we just bring estival to lynch really quickly to make sure it's not some sort of scum limited unlynchable role

yes pls

[Reina]

VOTE: ika

Reina's posting makes a lot of sense from a town perspective considering my understanding of the meta of other sites. If you're scum reading him, proof you're not drinking the MS kool aid would be nice.

also wanna point this out for all the haters

flubber would proooobably know that I wasn't from off-site if I was actually his scumbuddy, especially considering that I had already alt-slipped in-thread by the time he posted that.

[Reina]

bookittys mindset is pretty town i think

von looks kind of spazzy town but i could easily see myself being wrong about that

convince me about von assuming estival doesn't explode into a Reina-pride parade after hitting enough votes to be lynched

[Reina]

@heartless-like a lot of it is feeling the same way I did about estival to be fair. but she has seemed like she's been actually scumhunting and trying to figure the game out instead of staying on ika's lynch for town cred, and her not really pushing hard for a lynch with all the sera clusterfuck going on comes off as town too given that I think scum would want to get a lynch done pretty quickly while shaft was lurking forever.

if you really REALLY think she's scum then give me a case to look at but I'm probably not going to be voting her today.

[Reina]

Vonflare is much better.

Plex exploin

hey

estival's claimed unlynchable
we're testing it to make sure it isn't a limited-shot/day-specific scum thingamajig

cmon let's get this out of the way

[Reina]

So

Im actually back to just thinking estival is either scum or a 1-shot unlynchable SK (and yes there could be 2 in a 27 player game)

But vonflare is borderline if not actually confscum now

I feel like I should ask about theory of which would be better to lynch here but also bro is actually going to try to murder me in my sleep for saying that

:< I really am town though
maybe just a little bit loony with how strongly I think estival play yesterday with scum squirming out of something

Dont h8 me for believing too many things
its mean
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post-edit after jackals and estivals posts: Nope i am nw officially insane
My brain will no longer process things
good bye see you tomorrow

aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Reina]

vote estival

no

you are going to be the hammer

you may not believe in my convictions but you will prioritize what you think is a small possibility of good things happening over speeding the day up a little

in the event I am right, you are also in charge of designing the parade floats

make them respectful for cheetory too

oh look an estival post

ahaha

AHAHA

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

[Reina]

I said my spiel about estival yesterday

The only other addition I have right now is this

When I do die, then you'll be proven false. If there are any town left by then.

that I don't think really makes much sense from a town mindset given that we've got 3 dead mafia and a dead serial killer in two days and two nights

and that the claim of one-shot unlynchable makes less sense to me than a Day 2/chosen-the-previous-night unlynchable given that there was no votecount reset on day 2 to 'use up' the shot

i am clearly in too deep to be objective about this but a self-voting gambit is also still a thing that scum do sometimes to get read as town and I really don't think that only is enough for anyone to justify not voting her here.

I am going back to crazytown now and will probably see you again soon

[Reina]

^if it helps I am probably going to breadcrumb a thing in a bit

it's prob helpful to split the playerlist into like 3 or 4 groups and you take one and i take one and then other mysterious people can take the other two to make sure we don't hit the same targets

[Reina]

eh

though that gives scum a lot of info on who should they be shooting at

i dunno

[Reina]

i will breadcrumb but i don't think worry about groups

and it's day 3, we can wait oooone more for a massclaim.

[Reina]

he'd have to have used it n1 for scum to have all that info

but given the odd/even night stuff it is possible that they have a lot of info about what might happen tonight

I really just don't want to worry about a plan that might involve people deciding to try to use utter bullshit WIFOM to make decisions or giving people an excuse to check out of the game and stop trying to scumhunt

tomorrow I think is the point where all the role info might just becoming breaking-worthy. and i think we have enough town sneaks to have a good chance of surprising scum during night phase still.

[Reina]

im just afraid
without cheetory i am no longer secure

we have to keep going

cheetory would want it that way

[Reina]

hey

est is at L-2

unless you are Psyche, don't hammer. Do put at L-1 though.

[Reina]

sigh. let jackal confirm that he wants vonflare dead at least and that it isn't lolololreactions.

also vonflare fullclaiming pretty much right after that happens would be good too.

[Reina]

psyche

ready

readyyyy?

[Reina]

go

VOTE: vonflare

[Reina]

oh right LAST SECOND THING

I'm stealing this from mina and tammy

The SECOND letter of my rolename corresponds with a player. Double checked all the rules and there's nothing saying i can't do this and its just a breadcrumb anyway

C 4nxi3ty
K Bookitty
Z Boonskiies
S BROseidon
P Gilgamesh King Of Heroes
T Heartless (TTH/Antihero)
H Honey bee
I Hostile Intent
B Jackel98
V Marquis
J mastin2
U PeregrineV
Q Seraphim
M Varsoon
E vonflare

[Reina]

est is still some sort of scum btw

behavioral scumhunting yo

[Reina]

VOTE: estival

if she flips SK and not mafia then vonflare should still prob die tomorrow

[Reina]

I sort of expected more oohs and ahhs, guys. I just did something creative and amazing.

it's literally a nonexistant risk for scum to keep saying they're town after they're hammered

so

get shrugged at

also lynch estival

[Reina]

@honey-nah

i pray to the angels and demons of behavioral scumhunting

i will follow them until the end

also cheet saying to rb me makes sense as a low-risk action imo

[Reina]

it was a night 1 thing

aside from that ima be mysterious

wooooo

[Reina]

vonflare i think you should fullclaim here.

[Reina]

vonflare i think you should fullclaim here.

like don't quote anything because that's against the rules

but you can say your role name and loosely summarize what your role does and what you've done each night

[Reina]

he has a guilty on him

if he dies to anything except a vig then there is something absurd going on here

[Reina]

My predecessor roleblocked ika.

weird.

double check this please

preferably with the mod

[Reina]

ika died d1

sigggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

you have now cancelled out your own fancy gambit

it is null and void

[Reina]

yeaaaah

if you're gonna assume that von isn't saavy enough to fake acting town after being hammered

you can't give him all the credit in the world and assume he remembers all the people who got lynched and when

[Reina]

there have been two nights of actions

two

one more night before massclaim

plz

[Reina]

Cheetory asking vonflare to block Reina means Reina prolly not a killing role?
Reina have you looked at any other of my games?

i looked at the one you linked where I think you were LunarGhost? But I wasn't sure if that was actually you so there wasn't much thinking involved.

[Reina]

also @estival to be fair you're waaaaay more likely to be a serial killer than mafia imo

like you killing flubber makes a lot of sense to me

[Reina]

actually

a second sk might not work given flubber's role unless they were really uneven in power or quadz+ut were basically okay with having scum know that the SK had a killing role

so maybe not? and estival having seen jackal fakeclaim in other games makes that reaction make more sense

maybe i can lynch someone who isnt von or estival today

maybe

[Reina]

*fuck it*
VOTE: Gilgamesh

[Reina]

tbf because of lolreasons I'm pretty sure I know who amateur targeted n1 and there's nothing particularly suspicious about it

i might want him to lynch him tomorrow anyway because of the guilty result on him but I think he's actually fine for now.

[Reina]

mm.

i might be wrong about knowing who von targeted n1 if he's just claiming straight up roleblocker

but that means i got targeted by a roleblocker AND something that's pretty similar to a roleblocker last night.

so uh

i dunno man

[Reina]

Hmm. Well that's an interesting lead.

Why didn't you mention it?

I guess I don't know for sure that I got roleblocked by von

but I do know that something very similar to a roleblock happened to me, and thought THAT was from von, but given his clarifications that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Reina]

did you get hacked too reina?

no

[Reina]

there's basically an explosion of mostly-useless role information that can happen if we really want it to

i'd still prefer to wait til tomorrow on pretty much everything except wtf is going on with jackal+vonflare though

[Reina]

ehh

so I do want to hammer vonflare since if he's mafia we proobbbably win the game pretty soon after and he does need to die soon*

but this kind of seems like a part of the game where it might be nice to slow down and get a couple reads from people first

and I do want to squeeze some content out of Gilga before the day ends

so I'm gonna define that *soon* as probably today but maybe tomorrow if interesting things pop out of a few people.

[Reina]

hmmm yeah

@gilga- you said you wanted estival dead- is that because of my arguments, cheery's, someone elses, etc? And if est and von were out of the picture entirely but the game was still going on who would you want murdered most?

@peregrine- do you think est is scum? and like i asked gilga if est and von were out of the picture entirely but the game was still going on who would you want dead?

[Reina]

i have a request

assuming that gilga+pere's responses are shrugworthy or better

i want to hammer vonflare so I can make the worst pun of all time.

of all time

[Reina]

It's a legit accountable guilty and yeah his posts look a bit town but it's nothing unfakeable.

[Reina]

VOTE: vonflare

yeah sure
gigla's response actually looks moderately town btw

and i know i've been a bit off this game (unless estival is scum/SK in which case fuck all you haters) and maybe hammering vonflare like this won't help

and yeah I can sometimes dick around on wagons that are near lynch for a while for *reasons* that may not make sense to others or that people may think is likely bussing or whatever the fuck

But I'm town and I try to have my vote reflect my beliefs the majority of the time I'm doing things

and I won't change my play just because it makes all of you guys think I look overly

sketchy.

[Reina]

Mongrel! It appears you chose a subpar pun.

You hammered vonflare.

Now, he is gone-flare.

is that even a pun

[Reina]

hey this is a bastard mod game

@MOD: Please give a transferrable medal for best pun/play on words to whoever deserves it

prob hostile intent tbh

[Reina]

yepyep