Touhou UPick 3 - [Game Over]

[Kagami]

I'm thinking through events of the past.

A troll role that colors his name seems unlikely. Red the Nightless Castle making things red makes a lot of sense, whereas I don't see any reason why any futo spell would make oneself blue.

Unidentified "Blue UFO Invasion of Grief" or Unidentified "Red Cloak, Blue Cloak" seem much more likely.

[Kagami]

There's no really great reason that scum would have targeted gaiden with anything that isn't investigatory, as far as I can see.

[Kagami]

Actually, I'm entertaining a pretty silly idea in my head, and I don't want it to be true. But first, GIF what made you think Kagami killed Kilga? And people, what do you think of Kagami's interactions with scum on D1 compared to D2/3?

This makes me sad. I probably have had the best reads in this game.

Even the first few posts in our neighborhood make it fairly clear that I'm town. You really think ooba would have said that to a buddy?

[Kagami]

Monster Sign "A Forgotten Umbrella's Night Train"

[Kagami]

Race is probably just to give sakura some measure of BPness against SP.

[Kagami]

I expected more people to be surprised, btw -_____________-

[Kagami]

Nothing, I hope!

FG will surely pop in and tell us what it does though~

[Kagami]

Monster Sign "A Forgotten Umbrella's Night Train"

care to explain? or do we have to wait for the mod?

It's actually a surprise. Do you know flavor, ferry?

Everyone in this game has a daycard, it's their only protection against pie's extra NK.

[Kagami]

No one is dying, I'm town. I wish I could make some people die.

[Kagami]

I'm not related to the colors, I think I'm right that ooba made gaiden blue.

I think the scum abilities center around identifying who has cards, who has used cards, and killing people who have no cards.

[Kagami]

Her character is literally the youkai of surprising people <.<

And failing at it; I'm such a good roleplayer.

[Kagami]

Yep.

I still don't like katsuki, but I figured dealing with pie with be easier with more information on the board.

I think thgsd died as an extra kill because he was cardless.

I think AD card-copped me day 1 and found I have this card. As a result, Pie responded very curiously to my claim. He was seeing if I had set up a gambit with rylai.

[Kagami]

the yep was to muffin.

[Kagami]

Scum already had a "I win in lylo" card in the form of AD's card.

Why do they also need pie's hatedness? From pie's claim, he has absolutely no way to alleviate the "we lose in lylo" problem. As scum, he's also in trouble

unless

he has a means of double-killing.

[Kagami]

I think thgsd died as an extra kill because he was cardless.

how do you explain sky knowing about it and (apparently) thd (or kilga) not knowing?

I don't understand this.

[Kagami]

My theory is they die straight-up if they don't have a card.

[Kagami]

Scum already had a "I win in lylo" card in the form of AD's card.

Why do they also need pie's hatedness? From pie's claim, he has absolutely no way to alleviate the "we lose in lylo" problem. As scum, he's also in trouble

unless

he has a means of double-killing.

This makes sense. Also notscience was also hated and I don't think he had a way around it?

He was a vig who had no prayer of making it anywhere near lylo, unless also generating a ton of town-directed kills.

[Kagami]

Well, the plan was just to move along and see if the multikills continue or if scum is forced to move the game into evens.

[Kagami]

why do you think pieguy claimed it?

He claimed an innocuous version of it, but I agree that the claim looks town. I find it almost impossible to ignore the reaction to my claim, though.

[Kagami]

( and I really think ank and rylai are both town )

[Kagami]

SP is town too. AD clearly tried to kill him.

[Kagami]

I think you legitimately wanted to be JKed, and I don't think your flavor is a strongman or a roleblocker.

You also have me as hard town when scum desperately need to keep mislynch options open.

[Kagami]

i think i would just like it if cupcake were scum and we lynched him today and then we all held hands and sang kumbaya

Yes, I would have loved that, too, but then somehow I became a viable lynch.

[Kagami]

There's the FG post some of you were lurking in the shadows for~

[Kagami]

That's it.

[Kagami]

No, it really is a surprise.

The utility is fairly limited if it's function is revealed, which is also why FG isn't saying anything.

[Kagami]

its*

[Kagami]

so Kagami

just so we're clear

you think that despite being a role that should be PL'ed before LYLO, I started bussing Sakura at the start of the game, directed notsci in the neighborhood to shoot Sakura N1, bussed Dan the whole game, and tried to convince people to double lynch my last partner D3, bc I thought solo'ing through endgame would be a good fucking idea bc..... DERP DERP I HOPE NO ONE THINKS ABOUT THIS WITHOUT ME LOOKING LIKE OBVSCUM

Realize that you're describing my play better than your own.

You don't need to be PL'ed if you keep the game in evens, even without an additional kill.

[Kagami]

Anyway, hopefully katsuki is just scum and this was all a waste of thinking.

[Kagami]

If katsuki flips scum, then we can let this be a cautionary tale of the hazards of needlessly extending a day.

[Kagami]

It happened sometime when the game was in the 2500s.

[Kagami]

Ferry said something about my role being to plain, and you were all too happy to agree with it.

[Kagami]

...

You don't need to be PL'ed if you keep the game in evens, even without an additional kill.

yes, and if it doesn't?

you know what it doesn't make any fucking sense to do as scum attempting to win solo? risk putting the game in a position where you unequivocally get lynched, regardless of how much town credit you have, and there's nothing you can do about it. you could argue that I would not expect the game to go back to odd numbers if I'm attempting to keep it at evens, but regardless, there is, quite literally, no reason to take that kind of risk unless you absolutely need to.

also, answer my question in 2910.

You can maintain any parity you like.

Sakura was a day 1 thing, and she didn't get lynched. AD's lynch was out of your control. You did absolutely nothing to assist in ooba's lynch, so I don't get why you'd be trying to take credit for reducing the game to one scum as town.

[Kagami]

~ interesting ~

FYI, there was no answer you could have given to that question that was acceptable, but thanks for making this quick and painless. full reveal coming after Katsuki flip if it's still relevant.

p-edit: you're aware I was the first one who said your role was too basic, correct? ffery was the one who agreed with ME. you're also neglecting the fact that if I was scum attempting to extract information from you about your role, I would go ahead and ask you about it without regard to if anyone else had done so already.

The point is that you already knew either my abilities or my cards by virtue of AD's action.

[Kagami]

lol

you really are fucking scum

Nope, and you're going to have to spend the rest of the game pretending to want to lynch me, while somehow ensuring it never happens.

[Kagami]

Kagami, had withheld information about your role, so they were correct to call you on this. Since the lynch has been resolved, can you clarify what your card was supposed to do?

Whether it's correct or not is irrelevant.

We know AD acted on me night 1. Suppose that was either an ability cop or a card cop (either one would reveal I had a day card). That means scum knew I had the daycard. Pie is claiming immediate suspicion of my claim.

[Kagami]

You should probably save your time, you're going to have to NK me.

[Kagami]

so Kagami

just so we're clear

you think that despite being a role that should be PL'ed before LYLO, I started bussing Sakura at the start of the game, directed notsci in the neighborhood to shoot Sakura N1, bussed Dan the whole game, and tried to convince people to double lynch my last partner D3, bc I thought solo'ing through endgame would be a good fucking idea bc..... DERP DERP I HOPE NO ONE THINKS ABOUT THIS WITHOUT ME LOOKING LIKE OBVSCUM

This really is my iso... where are you bussing AD and trying to double lynch ooba?

[Kagami]

dreams of kumbaya shattered

Tell FG to wake up >.>

Silly californians.

[Kagami]

If pie is town, katsuki is scum. But I do agree that tomorrow would be interesting.

[Kagami]

It's nice that you're dead.

[Kagami]

Yes, I have a feeling this night-chat card is going to be annoying.

[Kagami]

... directed notsci in the neighborhood to shoot Sakura N1 ...

Did this actually happen, ferry?

[Kagami]

Well, optimal play is optimal.

Next day would have been fun; my card made me vengeful, and I would get it back from being on the lynch along with my postman card.

[Kagami]

gg everyone~

[Kagami]

I'm trying to figure out if we PoE'd so easily more because of roles, or because of good play.

We got an awful lot of town-directed kills. I guess AD's survival would have given them surprise-surprise lylo coupled with pie's hatedness.

[Kagami]

You were the only player who we had no reason to believe was town. Even I, who thought pie was more likely scum, wanted you lynched first.

[Kagami]

Town day-play was very, very good.

Having a voice of reason who couldn't be silenced definitely helped.

[Kagami]

Why did thgsd die?

[Kagami]

Ooba was lynched because he was scummy. Ankamius, pie, and myself were not lynched because we were more town than you.

But yes, you had an uphill battle, clearly.

p-edit: you guys got 2 kills? conditional?

[Kagami]

I think if GiF hadn't derped on the spellcard, it would have been even more difficult.

I had claimed the vengeful card to thgsd, which would have gone a long way toward preventing you from casting doubt on my alignment.

[Kagami]

I see, so you doc'ed ooba N1. I'm guessing AD blocked me N1, which didn't affect cards.

[Kagami]

or commutified/old-school jailkeep would make more sense.

I really don't think FG would have called it "Yukari's Gap" rather than "The Gap," which, while a little thing, stuck in my mind.

[Kagami]

Also you guys guessed right, Gaiden's blue name was entirely a spellcard he used to make his name blue, that's what he said in the Dead PT anyway.

Heh.

[Kagami]

Hmm, that's surprising. Seemed too inelegant to me. O well.

[Kagami]

Relentless played a really strong game prior to his replace-out.

I guess he claimed vig legitimately, and probably planned to use N1 it on someone "scummy" to clear himself.

Seems like that would have been a very strong play (or even shooting ooba), especially since SK would have given you a bonus kill later anyway.

[Kagami]

O, you guys didn't consider making the kill and having katsuki vig you?

[Kagami]

ooba's roleblock spellcard.

This seems like a major error.

You even falsely claimed unblockable yourself in upick 2, you should have guessed it was rubbish. The blocking card probably isn't trackable.

[Kagami]

I think it was a pro-town setup, but it sounds like you guys had more tools than you're giving FG credit for.

Nothing was going to save you from muffin's investigation, so AD was lost, but you could and should have prevented your own death at the very least.

[Kagami]

btw, I'm amused that the rest of us survive in endgame, while ferry dies. Poor patchy.

[Kagami]

I think it was a pro-town setup, but it sounds like you guys had more tools than you're giving FG credit for.

Nothing was going to save you from muffin's investigation, so AD was lost, but you could and should have prevented your own death at the very least.

Would you believe me if i told you at that time i had forgotten we had roleblocks?
That's how much attention i was paying (even to my own scum PT)

I absolutely believe this. I just wanted to point out that before anyone complains about the setup being too townsided, you have to realize that this was a pretty serious error. There was a significant amount of game-swing that arose from your death and ns's survival, which was your responsibility as the SDM mole to handle.

[Kagami]

Thanks for modding, FG. This was a fun game, I just wish the final day would have ended more quickly.

[Kagami]

How did I wind up dead on N3?

Mukyu~

[Kagami]

Shadoweh could have also pulled the trigger. I'm a little surprised she didn't.

I will say, katsuki, I'm impressed that you were almost able to wiggle despite doing literally nothing townish.

[Kagami]

You should have townread my reaction to your silliness!

[Kagami]

I'm still a little baffled that I ever was scumread. Aside from my RVS vote on SB, and a short time on SP, which I fairly quickly realized was an error, I only voted and pushed scum.

[Kagami]

(And of course pie at the end >_<)

[Kagami]

I think that setup would have made me sad, FG.

[Kagami]

I hope you would read the first 3 days if you were a town vig >.>

[Kagami]

My reaction was the correct reaction, though -_-

[Kagami]

Please pardon my site meta ignorance, but how common and/or "acceptable" is self-meta as a defense here, anyway? No one I was unfamiliar with seemed to bat an eye at players citing it, but two of the three people that pushed self-meta in their own defense the hardest were scum.

You shouldn't accept it, but it's not very alignment indicative.

[Kagami]

We won!
As always, i take no credit for this victory.
Also, I completely missed day 2 and had NS survived n2, the VC would have said "Konata"

That would have confirmed my action -_-

It's funny that I had you as my most confident town-read who was unlikely to die, and you get vigged.

[Kagami]

You probably kept it fun for FG, muffin. Yay.

[Kagami]

fyi the thing that I was building up to was that you were pushing that there were possibly 5 scum, while simultaneously supposedly thinking I was potential scum with an op role that could double kill on top of a scum team that could end the day twice (one of which by lynching whoever they wanted). I had no idea how those 2 theories were compatible with each other and it made me think you were just scum BS'ing. :<

I also had literally no idea why you would completely ignore the fact that I had directed NS in the neighborhood to kill Sakura on N1 after I brought it up if you were town here. obviously I was wrong, but full disclosure.

should I take it as a compliment to my scum game that you thought I might have been scum here? :p

I'm quite capable of maintaining multiple possible gamestates in my mind, even if they aren't consistent. The pie-scum gamestate didn't have 5 scum. 5 scum was a katsuki-scum state.

I didn't see any confirmation of your "directing ns" claim; as you can see, I was asking ferry to confirm it during twilight. The rest of the paragraph that contained that point seemed to consist of fabrications, so you can understand my skepticism.

You were still only scum by PoE, which included the elimination of katsuki, hence why I wanted him lynched first. The danger was that in the pie-scum state, pie would probably win if I didn't act once rylai posed a threat.

[Kagami]

Part of what makes playing mafia here a challenge sometimes is that people have the strange tendency to think that considering any more than one possible configuration of the gamestate at a time is inconsistent and scummy.

[Kagami]

made me vengeful. I would have it the next day too, since I was on the katsuki lynch, so the game was won as far as I was concerned.

[Kagami]

I'm surprised no one figured that out from my volunteering to be gladiated day 1 (I'd have blown up AD, which would have been lovely).

[Kagami]

People were using their gut to townread katsuki.

Gut is bad.

[Kagami]

You probably did mala a favor.

[Kagami]

It certainly would have, which would be hilarious.

[Kagami]

Didn't think it was necessary to say at the time, but I think scum-mala would have broken your cards to ensure you had no defense from your hatedness >.>

[Kagami]

I get the impression you guys didn't talk much during night 1.

Sakura knew that the yukari of last game, who had the same role, could be a godfather.

[Kagami]

I thought almost all the town did a great job of being town on day 1. I think scum were in trouble even without the roles.

[Kagami]

Sakura knew that the yukari of last game, who had the same role, could be a godfather.

Huh? there was a yukari last game?

that's why your role that game was terrible, all the scumteam was either a GF or investigation immune (and your vig would be blocked iff it was aimed at scum)