Nightingale's Tale - [Game Over]

[Mac]

hello

VOTE: Mac

hey

VOTE: Kagami

[Mac]

Reaction to them as players.

I don't understand what this means

I lile them both, but want to wagon one because it'll be fun.

Of the two I choose Mac to be brought to L-1 in the next 3 pages.

I could get on board with this

but I'm choosing not too

[Mac]

I wasn't talking to you, and I wasn't talking about giving approval. in fact, I'm not even opposing it. what is that all about?

[Mac]

claim masons with bork

i think this feels forced

[Mac]

indeed you did GIF. indeed you did.

[Mac]

Its a running joke from elsewhere move along.

Also how is it "forced?" Its either demonstrably true or it isn't (hint: it's this one)

the second question is a bit weird if you don't see how a possible scum entrance can look forced?

[Mac]

Its a running joke from elsewhere move along.

Also how is it "forced?" Its either demonstrably true or it isn't (hint: it's this one)

the second question is a bit weird if you don't see how a possible scum entrance can look forced?

You're asserting it's a potential scum entrance because it "looks forced"; I'm merely asking for you to quantify what that means in this particular instance (aka what looks "forced" about it)

actually I really thought notsci had cast a naked vote on p1 before announcing this mason thing which made it look like he possibly thought his entrance into the thread was 'notsci' enough so to speak.

i was mistaken so we can probably move past this

[Mac]

that should read "not 'notsci' enough" so basically not the way town notscience would enter a thread

[Mac]

You know I was going to ask you a question before I come back home to explain but I got slammed by work so I didn't have time. And I really want you to answer this first so I make sure your answer is not biased.

Oh just to prove that I actually have something in mind so you don't go "bs you're buying time etc"
It has to do with #27.

why did you feel the need to defend yourself before you were attacked here?

[Mac]

Rabble rabble Fakegod made me join rabble rabble

Me too. I don't even remember /inning.

I don't think I've ever seen Gif post so much so early like ever. I also don't think I've ever seen Gif-scum. Maybe it's a sign.

VOTE: Gif

this feels like an rvs

is it an rvs?

[Mac]

VOTE: Brian Skies

[Mac]

can you go into more detail about your read on me when you can?

I'm not sure how else I was supposed to feel about an rvs wagon that never took off. I didn't care about it and I wasn't concerned about it, I have no reason to be

[Mac]

well 1) is clearly not serious, why in the world would I seriously approve a wagon on myself? no wait, not a wagon, an rvs wagon.
2) is not really defensive IMO. sakura said something that made zero sense in context, and I questioned her on it.
3) how is calling a clear fakeclaim forced an issue? it's not the claim I have issue with but the manner in which notsci entered the thread.
4) yes I did, when bork asked. gif also said it was forced; why isn't he a scumtell?

inb4defensive

well it's a pointless question now, but I wasn't caught up at the time. now I see brian is probably scum!

tl;dr - your case sucks

[Mac]

scumtell = scumread, I'm still not awake

[Mac]

I can see I'm going nowhere with this.

- if I believed the claim, I wouldn't be voting Brian.
- Yes I implied it wasn't town there. But in the very post before that, I also said;

i was mistaken so we can probably move past this

which you seem to not be doing

[Mac]

that wasnt a haiku so I don't have to read it

[Mac]

aaaaah!
I disagree

[Mac]

I think he's scum because of the tunnelvision on gif which lacked a real sense of reasoning, I haven't played with gif in a long time but iirc quick reads is kinda how he plays? he has paid very little attention to anyone in the game not named gif and I think his gaiden hop is poor.

also the claiming already is a bit stupid and I don't believe it

[Mac]

I didn't tell you to drop it after you called me scum farside, merely pointed to a post where I said that before you had a go at me.

[Mac]

I think he's scum because of the tunnelvision on gif which lacked a real sense of reasoning

meh

i don't really agree with brian's reads but i don't see scum agenda in his posts

also don't think he's spent that much time talking about gif so uh

also like half the game has claimed or softed stuff - it's not like brian is alone in that regard

I think if you remove the fluff the majority of his posts are about gif. And I said the claim was stupid (not alignment indicative, this goes for everyone) and that I didn't believe it which is more in line with alignment.

[Mac]

I think he's scum because of the tunnelvision on gif which lacked a real sense of reasoning, I haven't played with gif in a long time but iirc quick reads is kinda how he plays? he has paid very little attention to anyone in the game not named gif and I think his gaiden hop is poor.

also the claiming already is a bit stupid and I don't believe it

@farside, this explains why I think brian is scum

[Mac]

it wasn't a response to you, was to muffin but you both asked the same question

[Mac]

I just feel D5 is too late to be modconfirmed, purely because im assuming 13v4, if we mislynch 4 times and lose 4 townies thats 5v4 which is possible for BS to be modconfirmed.

But say we have an extra kill somewhere, like a vig or delayed poisoner ( ) then the d5 role is useless.

it's set up spec reasons and generally im not good at setup so I could be waaay off target here, but thats my thought process

[Mac]

those smilies at the start are not supposed to be there. I have no knowledge of how they got there either

[Mac]

that is fair assessment, I don't think katsuki's is that strange though. why do you think that?

[Mac]

also i don't think cho really has 5 votes on d5

[Mac]

also i don't think cho really has 5 votes on d5

Why?

thought it seemed to much, but if the mod has a history of roles like those then it's possible

[Mac]

and you're pushing me despite the signals that say DO NOT PUSH which already are much much louder than they should be

Lol

VOTE: nacho

Finished V/LA
Things here seem quite intriguing
Nachos are yummy

VOTE: nachomamma with guacamole

i don't like either of these. muffins I can arguably see where he's coming from but I think it's really cheap to just quote a post and saying "lol" with a vote. it's just shit.

meanwhile, ducky finishes her v/la, doesn't comment on anything and follows onto the nachowagon that is apparently rolling. cheap; i'd expect a bit more comments on the gamestate and instead, we get a fluffvote.

[Mac]

The assumptions I'm making is that Cho is telling the truth and Katsuki's role as scum makes sense while both roles existing as town does not. If Katsuki is not telling the truth about his role, he's probably scum so I'm not really making assumptions there. I don't care about other doublevoters (why should I?). Yes, katsuki as scum would take this path as scum because he has before.

FUCKING LOL

UNVOTE, VOTE NACHO

arguably, this comes under the category i just dissed muffin for, but this differs from that in the sense that kat and nacho are fairly in touch with each others play I think. also, he's been involved with (or the subject of) the discussion prior to this which is how it differs from muffin

[Mac]

mm, he claimed a "confirmable role" - that's slightly different to "modconfirmed" as you seem to be taking it

i don't really care about the soft-claim so much; it didn't bother me and i thought his interaction with cho was kind of town-looking. i have ideas about what the setup probably looks like and, at the very least, his soft-claim 'fits' here

what are your not-brian thoughts on the game atm?

well he claimed IC soooo. I guess it will be clear on d5 whether brian is fakeclaiming or not but like I mentioned before, I thought it might be a method to live late and reach endgame.

not-brian wise, I see townGIF here although I'm feeling slightly paranoid because I'm getting flashbacks to xenoblade where scumgif snowballed me. I'll probably get over that in time. I feel good about grapes and his entry into the game, bork is a solid town read.

scumreads are brian and ducky. I wanted to include farside here but I feel like she may be town who is being misunderstood. I've totally glazed over the current Kagami/farside back and forth though.

I'm back and forth on you and nacho right now so I'm sticking with you both as null right now. also, notsci could be scum but I'll wait for more content before committing to that

[Mac]

@Mac: Agree; I'm guessing scum probably hopped on Nacho after my vote between (Katsuki, regular-Muffin, lala)

I have no real way to qualify that statement any further at this point; it's probably something to come back to later.

I think ducky's vote felt like the worst because it came from nowhere almost. it was an announcement that she finished her v/la and decided to join the nacho wagon with no reasoning. muffin at least gave a post which he evidently thought was voteworthy (although did not explain why)

but this differs from that in the sense that kat and nacho are fairly in touch with each others play I think.

They're both calling each other scum. Do you think one is correct?

if they are as in touch with each other as I think they seem to be, I imagine one is correct. I don't have alot of experience with Katsuki though, from what I remember he was scum with mastin in anything goes where they managed to mislynch me even though I was practically confirmed town - alot of this was down to mastin though. if I had a strong townread on nacho, I'd be inclined to agree with his read on katsuki provided he was able to articulate the reason clearly.

[Mac]

Why would scum-brian claim D5 IC under very little pressure?

this is a fair point, but it could be a means of getting to d5 before he retracts the claim on the grounds that he was just trolling around.

meh. that's a shitty answer on my part because I'm not sure that's brians style of play but on the flip side, is claiming day one out of nowhere his style of play?

[Mac]

This is pretty weak. I also sense some projecting because mac here seems to be tunneling on brian himself from what I've seen. Being his lone scum read and all.

lone scum read does not equal tunnelling. if you check my iso I was interacting with others and only mentioned brian when asked. brian took alot of opportunities to shoehorn gifscum into his posts and coerce others into thinking the same.

[Mac]

VOTE: ducky

[Mac]

you think nacho and katsuki are scum together? why?

[Mac]

you think nacho and katsuki are scum together? why?

I feel I shouldn't have to quote this in order to get an answer from you muffin considering it was right beneath your last post. but alas, I have. answer me.

[Mac]

lalala needs more votes right now

[Mac]

lol
vote for lala for Senator

do you have any game related thoughts?

[Mac]

He's not town for the role, but for the way he went about claiming it @lalaladucks (not the self-vote btw, tho it had something to do with it).
Also i'm going to continue to vote this Muffin guy since he still hasn't addressed Mac and several others questions and instead went with "lol"
The good thing about it is that i don't need to convince people anyway because my vote guarantees he'll die.

If people are going g to call zmuffinman "muffin", as they have been, then they should not be upset when things get missed.

As for your vote, well, I don't really give a shit. I'm town and you can't articulate why gaiden is town.

don't pull this shit cop out excuse that you're not answering questions because you think I'm talking to zmuffin. I made it clear I was talking to you so answer it.

also somewhat hypocritical that you say sakura can't articulate why gaiden is town and yet you are doing the exact same thing by ignoring my question repeatedly.

[Mac]

Who's scum, duckie?

Hmmmmmm, not me.
Not Gaiden.
Not the demonfruit.

Probably not bork.
Probably also not Brian.
Probably also also not that freezer dude.

Don't think farside is scum.
Don't particularly think Sakura is scum.
Don't really think the scary muffin is scum.

Not too sure about Cho though.

Nor Natirasha.

The cupcake is the most bizarre pastry.

Old Mary Mac put a target on my back, he could be one to watch.

We should experiment on notscience, he's quite suspect.

Kagami salami seems a little off, maybe this one is guilty.

The plain muffin is pretty suspicious.
The Nachomamma is quite suspicious.

I would like to hear why you think nacho is scum, why katsuki is 'bizarre' and more on your kagami read.

also because I'm scumreading you, I might be scum? :goodlogic:

[Mac]

I think this is a terrible reason to townread Gaiden for. But that's just me.

I agree with you here. since when having the same roles = town? I think this is scumduck trying to act casual and town by saying "oh yeah, I'm town so Gaiden must be town too." this is also the complete opposite reaction she had when gaiden announced he was a doublevoter from 30 onwards

furthermore, I think I may have been wrong on my brian scumread. that catchup looked good

[Mac]

dam, that linked post should be [post]130[/post and not 30

[Mac]

WHAT ON EARTH IS GOING ON

130

[Mac]

why did the manner in which he proved his claim seem townish?

[Mac]

It's null to me. he wasn't in danger of hammering himself and he was always going to unvote afterwards.

[Mac]

yeah, that was how I took it.

bork, if you were forming a townbloc, who would be in it?

[Mac]

i'd probably have you, gif, sakura and brian as a townbloc just now. maaaybe farside and grapes, pending more posts from the latter and me making my mind up on the former

[Mac]

I'm very wary of both. not scumreading them, but I don't trust my ability to read either of them very well

[Mac]

if you believe sakura is town her claim will see muffin dead. join me on the duck, it's a quacking wagon!

[Mac]

i think there is a high chance of ducky flipping scum doublevoter

[Mac]

gif in your list of townies, who is 3?

[Mac]

gif you probably should catch up before interacting. i particularly want to know if you still townread lala come the time you are caught up

[Mac]

i'm not certain about muffin scum. he's acting very 'dont give a fuck' for someone whose being threatened with a dayvig. not something i'd expect from scum. with that said, i still want my question answered.

[Mac]

that is a fair assessment of muffin, and one I probably agree with (aside from his brazenness with regards to sakura)

[Mac]

sakura... stop

[Mac]

I'd like Mac to talk more about reads and things, but I don't particularly think he's scum after a skim there. I'm not sure where else I'm looking for scum, but I'll figure that out later.

I cant remember if i said but I'm v/la at the moment, skimming along just now on my phone so I don't really have alot of time, but how/why are you underwhelmed by me? I think real Muffins assessment is pretty bang on about me for what it's worth.

My scumpool is currently:

ducky (I really think she has to go)
fakeMuffin
ns
Nati
cho

That's probably strongest to weakest, although nati and cho and really, really weak reads

[Mac]

Lala, have you been mislynched as town before? What game?

[Mac]

different in what way?

[Mac]

VOTE: zMuffin

lalala is town as fuck and has been town as fuck since even before the last page. zMuffy should know better.

Sakura should also know better but nobody wants to wagon that scum so I'll sit here instead.

why is lalala town then? you cant just waltz in, say that and that muffin should know better without explaining why

[Mac]

lalala

you strike me as a happy player. why are you getting so aggressive?

[Mac]

ive kind of skimmed the last few pages. i gotta go work but i kinda feel ducky is still scum? i dunno. i'm getting annoyed by the constant abuse she is aiming at people (by people, read zmuffin)

also, zMuffin is town!

i remember not liking the fact that grapes thinks my inability to form a read on a couple of players is fencesitting. i mean. you have your opinions and i have mine but i don't think that's fencesitting - that's just being truthful

[Mac]

wow so many words

we can burn you to the ground after TTH, Brian.

trust me, I'm not scum. I wouldn't lie to a winking James Franco!

i mean, why would we burn brian to the ground? what about his big catchup felt bad to you?

[Mac]

or is it just the fact he's calling you scum

because that's what it looks like to me. correct me if i'm wrong

[Mac]

gotcha, my mistake

[Mac]

where are you with your reads?

i havent been keeping up. i kinda glazed over your posts when they started looking angry. duckys don't get angry

[Mac]

In particular, I'm a little interested in seeing what Mac's going to do. He's one of the question marks who I'm suspecting because his posts limning the ducks scum reads aren't particularly reassuring and lean on really shaky things like the nacho vote (Post 340, Post 347, Post 531, Post 541, Post 1445).

i'm about to go play some fifa I reckon then chill with some food somewhere.

game-related stuffs? not much tonight i don't think. i'm now about 20 pages behind roughly, and i have no idea how you are in this game. pleased to see you, nonetheless. i'm actually off tomorrow for once but in exchange for a day off work i have a maths exam to study for on tuesday. feel sorry for me!

how is the nacho vote a shaky reason? it was literally so fluffy i thought i was going to die.

[Mac]

i have a maths exam to study for on tuesday. feel sorry for me!

Only one Maths exam? That's not bad, try two and then a ginormous Literature assignment due right afterwards. (And then a Spanish right after that but Spanish is a bludge)

well *technically* I have an exam on electrical networks and theorem analysis, a maths exam and a programmable logic controller practical assessment soooo all in all you probably still have it worse.

however if i bring in electrostatics and electromagnetics... whole different ball game

[Mac]

i'm gona try and catchup instead of revising. this can only end badly.

986 from lala was

okay

I guess. it was content which is what her iso was seriously lacking but again, it only focused on her wagon. I know this was what she was asked by farside, but only commenting on her wagon and not anyone else in the entire and then finishing off with the line "there you go, content!" felt a bit meh. i want more. i need more. i feel like none of the things she is scumreading zmuffin for in that post are actually scumtells too. ducky, if you are town, you're probably confbias against zmuff.

Your better off not putting me in a voting block. I tend to get stubborn unless someone makes a really compelling case.

Right now I'm just thinking.

This is a town post

i thought so too. but looking back, it's a pretty easy post to fake as scum soooo null on it.

VOTE: zMuffin

lalala is town as fuck and has been town as fuck since even before the last page. zMuffy should know better.

Sakura should also know better but nobody wants to wagon that scum so I'll sit here instead.

oh dear. it better be acknowledged that lalatown = choscum somewhere after this. also, im expecting lala to be suspicious as fuck of cho buddying her because I think if lala can appreciate my scumread on her then she knows she's not playing her town game very strongly. in fact, i think the posts admitting self-apathy go to show this.

I'm not trying to emulate Sakura.
You're full of turd zMuffin.

what are you trying to do then? zmuffin's post is absolutely bang on and all you can say is "no I'm not" without explaining what you are actually trying to do.

What Cho is doing is smart because I'm town. If Cho's scum, Cho was right about me being town and gets cred for not helping mislynch me. If Cho's town, Cho's read is accurate and Cho gets to say 'haha I was right you suck'

WHY IS THERE NO SUSPICION TOWARDS CHO IN THIS POST. you just freaking outlined why choscum has motivation to do such a thing, called it smart and then fucking walked away from it like it won't happen.

that is not a town reaction

!!!

Oh btw, I reverted back to my old playstyle just about the same time i switched avatars, but you may have not noticed, since you're not paying attention to anything im actually doing!

Oh that's a pity, I liked you more when you talked less

yeah, cho is scum. this is as blatant an attempt as you like to push sakura's buttons and it's most certainly not a town thing to do. does this make lalatown? possibly, but i could see choscum hard defending lalascum like fuck in an attempt to bring up a 'too scummy to be scum' situ.

this is alot of shit to wade through. my eyes are starting to glaze over. however i do have zmuffin town, sakura town, lalala scum/town and choscum reads from it so it was pretty much worth it

plus the question-dodging you're referring to is i think him being indignant about sakura not explaining the gaiden read or something? not exactly the same thing

As I stated when i was talking with him. He dodged Mac's question before I refused to explain my Gaiden townread, then he used that as an excuse to never answer the question.

still no answer. although i think he's probably more likely to be town than scum at this point.

i also think farside is probably more misguided town than scum. this is a pretty gut feeling so far in truth.

Seems very off the cuff and playful. If she has never been town I would think she would crumble under the pressure of playing with friends who know her. I don't really see her crumbling here.

i can't really agree with this. she's been less off the cuff and playful imo (also this may actually come later when she gets aggressive) - does the aggression change this read for you? also, playful and off the cuff is such a weak reason to townread someone for when it's quite simple to do the same as scum too.

with regards to your reads oversoul, do you think scum katsuki decided to hardbus nacho early on for no reason really?

VOTE: Lalala

Don't hate me

this vote is also really strange, you didn't think lala was crumbling but you didn't bother to check her previous play and see? your vote on nati didn't really have any conviction behind it either.

lalala

you strike me as a happy player. why are you getting so aggressive?

I see it more as frustration.

I could see it from this angle, but i feel like her attack on sakura is a bit harsh considering she's just come off what i hear was a pretty bad game in that last fg game.

I usually am, but this is coming from zMuffin who constantly undermines

every single thing

I have to say. He's a pompous knob.

Actually, I recall him saying in the Heaven PT in Paradise Lost something along the lines of "haven't bothered to read what lala said, just saw her colourful size 400 spam text and couldn't bear to witness any more of her idiocy" so I don't know why he's this intent on using my gameplay in Paradise Lost as comparison, as he wasn't paying attention to it when the game was ongoing and is now interpreting everything wrong.

That could point towards zMuffinMan-scum.

I find lalala's responses on this page to be pretty town.

Lalala, you can pretty much make a bandwagon... so join me on Nati!

VOTE: Nati

oversoul is probably scum. what about lala's responses were townie, other than frustration which wasn't actually game related really? I read both the frustation at muffin and sakura as pretty genuine too but it could still come from scum imo. although i'm still reaaaaally suspect of her play

Sounds lovely Oversoul, but zAntagonisticAsshole deserves to get what's coming to him. Didn't you find it overly cocky that he's so certain he's not going to be lynched?

cockiness isn't a scum trait, and muffin has done it before as either alignment.

do you think oversoul is buddying you? i do.

lalala

you strike me as a happy player. why are you getting so aggressive?

I see it more as frustration.

Rather more like scum flailing, it looks to me more like she's going Insane and doesn't now anymore what she's saying considering the inconsistency in half of those posts.

i know this is really irrelevant considering sakura's gone, but i disagree with this post. it didn't read like flailing to me.

Vote: Oversoul

[Mac]

I don't believe I've done enough to earn this 'scumread' of his to this degree of certainty. I wasn't intentionally twisting his words, that was what I remembered from skimming the Heaven PT. I'm not lying. What did I lie about?

Ugh. I'm not certain he's scum. But I do think it's more likely that he is scum than town. I'd say like a 75% chance he's scum. And I know, 100% that I'm town. Scum uses my fluffiness in every single game I play to their advantage, to attempt to get me mislynched. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That is what it seems zMuff is doing here, in an obnoxious manner as well.

why did you townread me for believing you were scum for fluffvoting?

I felt like I had to prove myself in Paradise Lost. Here I don't need to prove anything to anyone.

I can guarantee my play will improve exponentially from here on out though, if I survive by some miracle.

i want you to prove your town. i want you to prove that you are the wrong wagon for today. i know i've moved to oversoul but i would currently probably lynch you as well. it breaks my little heart too

why will your play only improve if you survive? why not now? if you are town and lynched today, your reads will be absolutely golden tomorrow. take advantage of that.

If he's not scum, he shouldn't be so adamant about saying I'm scum because he's dead wrong, and in this (imo unlikely) case he's just town that's too big for his own boots.

i want you to take a moment and realise how silly this sounds lala. you're saying he shouldn't be confident in his own reads because he's wrong. confidence is key to being town; if you don't believe in your reads, who will?

I believe in the Duckling.

VOTE: Notscience

............................

I usually am, but this is coming from zMuffin who constantly undermines

every single thing

I have to say.

what am i "undermining"? you're not actually doing anything productive

Oh, look you're fucking undermining me once again as you ask what you're undermining. Nice one. Real infuriating.

i don't think this is undermining. rather than telling it how it is for the majority of the game? my opinion, of course.

probably ns.
but once again, i always scum read ns

are you going to do anything orrrrr shall we just forget you exist? also, this is such a fucking cop out answer it's unreal. if ns is town i can see gaiden being scum. in fact, i can see gaiden being scum right now, but this would in turn make lala town because i don't think FG would give two d1 doublevoters to scum.

[Mac]

ducky, if you are town, you're probably confbias against zmuff.

ye ik
already admitted that

good stuff. i'm glad you've admitted this may be a possibility.

yeah, cho is scum.

soooooo
why are you voting Oversoul when you're this confident about scum!Cho?

a fair question. i'm probably more confident i'm oversoul than cho. i'd like to see how cho's replacement (TTH?) gets stuck into the game and what her reads are. i'd probably go here too though, based on cho alone.

I appreciate Mac'so post it makes me think about things I may missed in my tunnel.

i'm glad it helps someone!

oh?
really
hadn't thought so before
why do all the scum want to buddy me
seriously it's annoying

i'm not sure if this is a sarcastic response or not but oversoul continous flip flop on you looked absolutely god awful and he's really not impressed me since he came in. who are you voting just now and why?

[Mac]

i don't really know what to make of notty's 1241. either way, it ends with a chovote and i think that could also result in a scumflip so i'm not too fussed by it right now. the "oh no i did this in pvz mafia" feels really off though and i can't put my finger on why. i guess i could see scumnotty making an awkward reference to previous scumplay?

also, did someone mention pvz before he did? if they didnt and he brought it up out of the blue, then it's definitely weird. i can't use the search function to find references to pvz which is annoying.

right, and if you were to say, "gun to your head, is nati town or scum?" i'd say scum

but if you were to ask me whether i'm confident about it, i'd just shrug - there's not enough to go on at the moment

i'm a lot more confident there's at least one, maybe two scum in the current wagons so, really, even if she is scum, i'd rather see lala or noddy flip first while i solidify the nati read

I think Nati flip gives a good amount of associative tells on the people that the town needs to sort if it is going to have any chance to win. That being you and Nacho. I think your resistance to Nati lynch comes from a couple of places. 1) you're friends with her, which is understandable. It hurts me to do this to Nati too. I like her as a person and think she has gone through a lot so I don't really feel comfortable on a human level doing this to her 2) ego about your read on Duckling/NS, fair they are your reads I sympathize with that and 3) ego about your Nati read for fear of getting it wrong

there are much better options for associative flips than nati. off the top of my head, cho would be a good one and so would one of katsuki/nacho. i'm happy to let muffin figure her out, why aren't you?

Also yeah i don't think notty's scum after that wall, while he did do that too in PvZ, he dropped it off completely afterwards, until he does the same thing here, he's town, and if he doesn't and im dead or smth, one of you should scrutinize it to hell in further days.

PEdit: Good enough for me.

Vote: TTH

again, kinda pointless bringing this up but worth noting here that if notty is scum, i'd consider sakuraslot a good candidate. this feels like a warning to notty not to repeat pvz (do scum have daytalk in FG games? my guess is no but idk) and i can't see any town motivation by saying "until he does X" rather than seeing if he actually does X.

So for starters could you highlight exactly what from brians catchup post looked more likely to come from town to you exactly? I sorta want to discern if this turnaround was genuine or just out of convenience.

Also the reasoning for the scumread on lala here isn't the best. As I said in the above I don't sense any scum motivation from that read.

well his catchup post mirrored my thoughts very well. also, it was the complete opposite of the play i had been scumreading him for so it made me feel alot better and that he was probably just taking a bit of time to get fully involved in the game. athe lala vote was an added bonus of townpoints.

you say you read it as genuine naivety, but you don't acknowledge the fact that when the doublevoter thing first arose, there was no sign of her saying that same roles is more likely town than scum. that's where alot of my read came from.

I smell bullshit here. No fucking way I should be in the discussion for any townblock ever at this point. Also weird how you've got brian there, townblock means firmly town correct? Despite not really giving a concrete reason for your turnaround.

yeah, i'm very comfortable with brian now. and if i like your posting, why wouldn't i think you were town? theree was a pretty big maaaaaybe and pendings for your inclusion but you're choosing to ignore that i see. and finally, it wasn't a townbloc discussion per se, more of a roundabout way of asking bork who he thought was town.

in your 7 posts, you've talked to me like you're scumreading me but you never seem to mention me in your conclusions or when you're considering who to vote for. are you scumreading me?

i do quite like notty asking muffin to dig into his wall though. unless he's feeling particular confident about his ability to fake reads, he might be town. do you think this is more likely to come from town notty or scum notty, muffinman?

can't say I'm particularly fond of TTH's few posts that I've read, but holy crap my mind is blown at her being mrs antihero. awesome stuff.

sure thing prickturd.
you suck btw.
and probs scum.
although I'm feeling you're less of a scumfuck than I was thinking you were.
leaning scum on you anyway.
although leaning a bit town even though you're a right twat.
conclusion: null.

so waffly. you don't explain any of your reason for suddenly thinking zmuff might be town, and i can't help but feel it's because he offered you the olive branch and you were trying to butter him up. do you explain it later on? if not, please do.

Of course he was BSing, that's a fucking ridiculous claim.
I'm a Day 3 Doublevoter.

That's probably FakeGod's theme here. Make everyone a double voter on certain days.

interesting. why did you claim rather than just leave it cho was bullshitting?

VoteCount 1.19

notscience [6] - borkjerfkin, Kagami, Natirasha, Muffin, Nachomamma8, grapes

I don't like how notty's wagon has bork, Kag and Nati on it - all of whom have disappeared.

bork is v/la but you're quite correct with the other two. i'm quite suspect of kagami all of a sudden.

hoooooly fuck three oversoul votes in quick succession make me feel not so good about my vote.

Fake

probably not.

farside/TTH - if you guys think sakura is scum (and i think i'm right in saying that you do) why are you voting oversoul with her?

Wow Sakura nice vote on me

why pick sakura's ahead of farside/TTH? especially after she's left the game.

Wow.

Sakura quit. I was finding her 'woe is me' routine scummy and put on.

Hey ooba, are you scum?

why is it scummy?

I'm around today.

My opinion on both the nacho and zmuff slots is that a BoP strategy is the correct direction, especially given nacho's claim.

I'm willing to leave ns for nati.

what is BoP? and what happened to being around today?

how is the nacho vote a shaky reason? it was literally so fluffy i thought i was going to die.

That's hardly definitive proof of guilt, unless you'd like to show otherwise.

well, no and i never claimed otherwise. there are a variety of reasons i've been scumreading ducky that are evident in my iso.

that being said

VOTE: oversoul

something somethign survivalism something

am I missing something here? what's the deal with the 'survivalistic' vote switch from a 4 vote wagon onto a 3 vote wagon (making it 4, but the point stands - it's not survivalistic because it's not a bigger wagon). you've went from voting your top scumread to voting with your top scumread on the grounds of survivalism bla bla bla. i feel like rather than being survivalistic you should probably campaign a bit more for your scumreads to be lynch?

survivalism and survivalistic are totally made up words but they sound great.

this was mac, catching up. it's been a pleasure.

currently i have bork, zmuffin, brian, farside town.

notscience as prob town, muffin probtown, ooba probtown, katsuki probtown

currently i have oversoul, tth, {ducky/gaiden} and probably kagami and nacho as scumreads. everyone else is in between

it concerns me that 5/6 on the ns wagon haven't been around for a few days and probably aren't up-to-date on recent developments too

[Mac]

I'm voting with her?
She's voted with me

does that not bother you?

[Mac]

i mean if one of my top scumreads voted another of my scumreads directly after I did, i'd been questioning it. i don't recall you doing that

[Mac]

I'm willing to leave ns for nati.

i would like to know what your take on recent events is, including what your current thoughts on noddy are and where you're at with other reads

You'll have to specify recent events, I've been skimming somewhat.

Ns seems more town to me than when I voted him. Nati is being scum-nati. Only thing is that oversoul has come in strongly anti-nati, and nati has been sitting on ns. ns+GiF scum makes sense, nati+GiF and nait+ns seems possible but fairly unlikely.

Sakura replace-out looks town, which I had already thought after a re-evaluation following one of your earlier posts.

I had thought Cho's claim was pretty town-looking and continue to think it is. Cho and TTH haven't done anything particularly inspiring, which was fine for cho, but less fine for TTH. I'm not sure why marquis replaced out, though, especially if she was scum. I don't really see marquis scum without lala being scum, anyway, and I don't especially think lala is scum.

Still unwilling to vote nacho.

also still unwilling to unvote notscience despite townreading him more

[Mac]

Mac, I believe Sakura voted oversoul after I did. I'm not switching to a wagon that has no one.

point still stands. all three of your oversoul votes came in quick succession; did it not worry you?

[Mac]

Vote: TTH

i think this will result in a scumflip

[Mac]

No. Why should it?

i mean if one of my top scumreads voted another of my scumreads directly after I did, i'd been questioning it. i don't recall you doing that

[Mac]

i mean if one of my top scumreads voted another of my scumreads directly after I did, i'd been questioning it. i don't recall you doing that

Coupled with the extreme AtE, I'm not putting any stock in it.

oh right, well question stands for farside too

[Mac]

Mac you appear to have a scum read on oversoul and TTH so I'm a bit confused by your vote there.
Like why one over the other?
You know lurk who isn't explaining shit and gliding by tend to be scum more often right?

it doesn't really matter but i feel like tth is more likely to go today. also willing to work with muffin who has a townread on oversoul iirc. i'll cross that bridge on day two.

i'm not sure what the last sentence means?

[Mac]

Note nacho avoiding game notes players town reading the player.

are you reading what your posting? before his posts here was a drunkpost here and two prod dodges elsewhere. not avoiding the game

[Mac]

Come on one more time I get to point out you've been around and not posting here and I get bettlejuice visiting

[Mac]

well done on missing the point, farside

[Mac]

well done on missing the point, farside

i don't miss when players hide after being called out

Probably should show a pic because he'll probably change it once he reads this but it says last on Sunday 24th @ 6:21am. I know my hour is off a bit on my side

and yet he's been posting today. so it's clearly wrong

also there are other areas of this site you can visit without playing mafia, so it's absolutely no excuse to scumread someone based on this alone.

[Mac]

Are you going to address the point, or just roll your eyes?

I'm speaking from experience for what its worth, i tend to browse mish mash or gd when im stuck only on my phone. Especially if im not caught up in a game

[Mac]

youre worried about the wagon gaining speed then plonk your two votes on it...

[Mac]

Do you have no other game thoughts other than notscience, nacho?

[Mac]

I would be willing to bet the kill was more motivated by Cephrir's inheriting of the slot.

Ehhh what? Bork was universally townread. I'm willing to be that's why the slot was killed

[Mac]

One of Nacho/zMuffinMan has to be scum given the Nati interactions. Leaning zMuffinMan.

what interactions are you referring to here?

i'm probably not going to be around this weekend, not really sure though

[Mac]

if you're vanillaized, can you claim what your role was? since it's useless

[Mac]

also, i don't think i like nacho

[Mac]

for town that is, i think he is wonderful as a human being

[Mac]

i think your sole focusing on notty and not on anyone or anything else is detrimental to the town and not really coming from a town mindset. you don't seem to be scumhunting, all you seem to be doing is trying your best to ensure notty ends up with rope around his neck. that doesn't feel like town!nacho to me, it's not the nacho I know and love

who ever it was who said *crosses fingers* when nati was hammered might be scum. checking back, it was oversoul. which doesn't surprise me. it felt fake as fuck, like "look how town I am hoping for a scum lynch!"

[Mac]

also, i'm getting shivers of paranoia of muffinman and i'm not sure if i'm just being silly about it or not

[Mac]

that explain your focus on ns.

that doesn't explain your lack of focus on anyone else in the game.

[Mac]

I think zMuff is likelier to be town and I don't see why he would oppose all three leading wagons from yesterday to drive a lynch on his own scumbuddy.

this would make sense if muffinman was the driving force behind the nati-lynch. he wasn't.

remembering back, he seemed to hedge his bets with it for most of the day.

[Mac]

also, i don't think i like nacho

why?
i very much needed a jumping off point to interact with you and lo and behold, i found it

when have you ever needed a 'jumping off point' to interact with me?

p-edit; well, assuming you are town, choosing to only focus on ns is not playing to the full town strength we're all aware you are capable of. thus, town is weakened by the lack of nacho here.

[Mac]

why did you need one here

[Mac]

Vote: Nacho

[Mac]

why did you need one here

the underwhelmed without really knowing why feeling
why does needing one make me scum?

it doesn't, but it also doesn't make you why

[Mac]

make you town*

where the hell did why come from

[Mac]

that doesn't make really sense to me but okay

[Mac]

why?

[Mac]

eh i dont reallysee it as such, probably more of a method of scum being able to half-control double voters?

there's no way town vanillaizer targetted brian last night imo. if they do they deserve a thunderpunch to the throat

[Mac]

there's no way town vanillaizer targetted brian last night imo. if they do they deserve a thunderpunch to the throat

I disagree with you there too.
(And yes I do remember he was in my townlist that I said I wouldn't touch.)

again, why?

[Mac]

I don't think being parked on my wagon while a scum lynch is going down based on a stale reason is particularly townish.

Do you?

well, he was working with his townread (katsuki) in order to get a lynch through. not sure there's anything particularly bad about that?

[Mac]

I don't think being parked on my wagon while a scum lynch is going down based on a stale reason is particularly townish.

Do you?

well, he was working with his townread (katsuki) in order to get a lynch through. not sure there's anything particularly bad about that?

Oh dear, here come the buzzwords...

feel free to prove me wrong

[Mac]

Of course nati's extra kill was just one night, bit daft to think otherwise

[Mac]

i would be townreading kagami for trying to figure out the gamestate at this present time if i hadn't done a similar thing as scum in the pokemon upick to look town (ie using scum knowledge of the setup to speculate and appear town)

other than that i like where her heads at, but paranoia

[Mac]

Wow, ooba was piss poor.

There's a tell for this.

i thought this, but i kinda swept it under the carpet. i think that tell is outdated.

Lalala could easily have not joined the Nati wagon and gotten a mislynch elsewhere. Her two votes are what made the Nati wagon successful.

a switch for towncred.

Oversoul, you obviously have never played with me. Your tell may be concrete in normal situations but Im not a normal dude. I never ever ever ever ever bring up what my previous replacements, especially as scum, but this is a different case in which I need something to explain this dumb defense of nati. If I had said "I cant explain my previous slots actions," it would have looked worse for me, since Im replacing in a hole. Other than that, not much to say about bringing up Ooba since im being framed in the neighborhood because Ceph said that he can read ooba, and the fact I defended Nati. If youre town I urge you to think about the chances of me being more of a mislynch of circumstance vs scum with nati.

you can't explain your predecessor's actions and i'm pretty sure no one expects you too. the fact you have felt the need to try to defend the fact that ooba defended nati absolutely reeks.

As for your vote hopping, it wasnt on the main wagons, but it was alot of changing especially without much explanation because you had voted townreads and REFUSED (even up to this point today) to update your reads. You were sheeping duck then voting duck, towning with muffinman, then voting muffinman, ect.

however, i am on board with this regarding oversoul.

It would be great if grapes weighed in on the gamestate. Curious about zmuff's opinions too.

i frequently forget of grapes' existence in this game. is low posting usually part of his game?

If you want some of my original qualms with mac check my iso, it's not taht long. But the most recent thing that's really amplifying that read was something he said sorta along the lines of him saying to oversoul "I'm perfectly fine letting muffinman figure out nati why aren't you" which is making me a bit worried now that she's flipped scum.

I don't think this makes sense from me being scum perspective? why would I leave reading my scum partner up to someone whose claiming to be very good at reading her?

Coupled with his eleged 'warryness' of muffinman. It's like yea if you were townreading muffinman that would kinda make sense amirite? But you're kinda not? Like being wary is sorta admitting to not really townreading them so why put stock in their ability to read another player and not just give a concrete read yourself?

ehhh zmuffin claimed to have a similar thing to sakura/gaiden going on. so i rolled with it and it landed with a scum lynch.

both of these previous quotes don't seem like anything to be particularly bothered about. it's like you're saying "well, he left reading nati up to muffin, and nati flipped scum soooo mac could be scum." that doesn't really make sense to me.

Then the only other mention of nati's wagon I recall was a passive aggressive shot at laladucks voting there after her saying the speed of the wagon was too fast. I mean maybe I'm reading into it a bit deep. But what exactly is the point of fear mongering the wagon at that point? Especially without even planting your feet about giving doubts on it yourself. I dunno. Those are pretty much my issues with mac as of now.

well, if someone says "wow this wagon is moving too fast" (indicating it might be town) then dumps two votes on it and totally contradicts their earlier statement, I will pick up on it? I mean that looks to me like it is prime evidence of bussing, where claiming wagon2fast didn't work so fucking go for it anyway.

you seem to be doing your best to associate me to the nati wagon in any way possible, but none of these points make sense.

also grapes - what do you make of salamance's posting? rather than voting her for connections that happened in the past with different players

K here's what I want to do: Lynch Gaiden.

Look at his ISO and tell me what parts are town. He's been coasting on Sakura power-buddying him and he just tried to pull the same thing in 2203. He fought against the Nati lynch and pushed for a Lala lynch (one of my weaker townreads, but a townread none the less) with zero evidence or justification.

We've already got 1 scum down, we can afford to mislynch in case I'm wrong. But you know what? I don't fucking care what alignment he is. He's so goddamn useless that it is worth it for him to die before LYLO to deny scum the chance to leave him alive as lynchbait.

VOTE: Gaiden

Anybody not voting Gaiden needs to explain (and be specific about) why he's an asset to town.

i'm pretty happy with saying muffin is town at this stage.

Oh look, another doublevoter. How interesting.

have you claimed your original role yet brian? did I miss it?

salamance

- do you have history with notscience where he has lolhammered?

Salamance is scumzilla why haven't we lynched it yet

Wouldn't be opposed to getting rid of Gaiden but Sal's a much better choice.

SPRINKLED DELIGHT they seem cool let's not kill them.

probably the same reason we haven't lynched you ducky.

[Mac]

i have too many scumreads in this game

i need to work some things out

[Mac]

Could you please elucidate: what's the reason I haven't been lynched yet, which is 'probably the same' as the reason Sal hasn't?

people are not agreeing

[Mac]

with 17 players, losing roughly two per day and let's say 3 scum (as FG games previously have had) - why would you pick day 7 or 8?

[Mac]

i have too many scumreads in this game

what are those reads?

yes i did, salamence. yes i did

i have scumreads of different strengths on: ducky, oversoul, TTH, grapes, nacho, katsuki and gaiden

what do you make of nacho?

[Mac]

well that's what i said about having too many scumreads?

i mean, my scumread isn't strong and i probably won't lynch you today (i'd much rather see ducky, tth or grapes first)

[Mac]

Vote: Sala

not the nightingale, and sala seems the best shout for scum here.

[Mac]

i am still of the opinion there is scum in our hood, the kagami kill and subsequent flip has done nothing but strengthen that theory.

[Mac]

also, my current working theory is that the neighbourhoods are symmetrical in terms of roles (4 day-X double-voters with a N5 vig) and that it's one scum in the double-voters (most likely TTH) and one outside

do you think there was two scum in one neighbourhood and one neighborhood all town?

[Mac]

Other wagons I am interested in include:
Katsuki
TTH
The non-non annoying muffin

But the biggest thing for me right now is that I definitely don't want to lynch Gaiden.

For obvious reasons don't want to lynch myself.

Not feeling a brian lynch.

why are you interested lynching the un cc'd nightingale?

[Mac]

(other than maybe the scum team as a whole considering kagami an equal or greater threat, or a safer kill, or something like that).

if my theory on the hoods is right (and I think it is), kagami claiming n5 special last night is probably why she is dead today.

[Mac]

come on nacho

where's the hate you promised?

[Mac]

a fair point there.

[Mac]

well when you said you were going to direct your hate towards me

i was expecting you to actually direct hate towards me?

[Mac]

folks, do we think if i was roleblocked i'd be able to freely speak in the neighborhood during night one?

or would the roleblocking only occur for an active move?

[Mac]

actuallyam gonna go ahead and say no

[Mac]

yes

this is after me doing the exact same thing in pokemon upick too

i have my moments

[Mac]

sigh.

If thats grapes claiming a block on me, then scum no killed or grapes is scum.

can you not lynch me until ive been home and updated my own reads. My heads not been in this game and ive been shit, but nacho is now town

[Mac]

appreciate the time, completely inevitable that im going to be lynched today but i will flip town and i want to know what the plan is when this happens.

Theres a few scenarios where this happens. Im kinda curious as to why grapes is trying to justify lynching me with the neighborhoods etc, feel like in his mind it should go "no kill > i blocked mac > confirmed scum"

also, if grapes isnt scum, then its probably one scum left and it probably is one of his townreads who was sure they werent being roleblocked last night

[Mac]

sigh.

If thats grapes claiming a block on me, then scum no killed or grapes is scum.

can you not lynch me until ive been home and updated my own reads. My heads not been in this game and ive been shit, but nacho is now town

What part of the last paragraph did you not get, grapes? I'm not home so no reads yet

[Mac]

at this point, i'm just gonna go through the playerlist and write reasons for what i think they are.

Nachomamma8

town. this is a stark change from previous days reads, but alot of my scumread was based on nacho focusing solely on ns being scum and not a whole lot else. since this turned out to be right... well, i owe nacho a drink if we should ever cross paths in life. i also i don't see nacho bussing ns like fuck since a) there was no reason too and b) i believe there is only one scumz left.

Katsuki

town. un-cc'd etc. should probably pull his finger out his ass.

zMuffinMan

mmmm the muffin man. i *think* his trajectory on the nati read early doors day one came from town. i know oversoul is blabbing about interactions and yada yada yada but i don't see zmuff being scum with nati at this point. unfortunately, other than that, i can't really remember a whole lot about him (but that goes for this game in general)

Brian Skies

i'm more interested in brian skies after the ns flip. i had him down as solid town early doors but i'm getting frightful bouts of paranoia now that ns has flipped scum that it was a scum move to try and conftown brian. what did you guys talk about in the neighborhood?

farside22

town i think, but it's strange how she hasn't died yet.

GuyInFreezer Oversoul

probably my best pick for scum at this point. i was wary of gif buddying me early game (like he did in xeno 1 when he was scum) and then oversoul's entrance and vote flopping in the game was all kinds of shit.

grapes

probably town? but i'm paranoid as fuck he is scum gambitting.

SXTLHGaiden

an idiot, but probably town.

lalaladucks

second best scum pick at the moment. hasn't really done much the whole game IMO apart from shout at zmuffin. lately, she's not been great (pot. kettle. black. I know) and it saddens me to want to lynch her, but I do

also feel like the setup kinda points to neighbours? N5 vig neighbour, vanillaizing neighbouriser. D1 doublevoting neighbor makes sense to me, but i could equally see it being two neighbors and then 1 non neighbor so meh.

let everyone check in and then lynch away.

[Mac]

just feel like as a cop role you are a big threat to scum, unless you've admitted what your role is. but i do remember you saying you weren't going to talk about it.

he's acting like one. can't remember a single substantial thing he's done in this game.

[Mac]

uhhh yeah

but my point is that a cop poses threat to scum? so it's strange you are alive today and didn't die last night.

of course this is fmpov where scum have no killed/grapes is scum

[Mac]

im a d4 doublevoter

[Mac]

i think your block would be better served elsewhere, like oversoul

[Mac]

as long as you have a plan for when the townflip comes, im not overly fussed

[Mac]

i feel like that last line was really forced

[Mac]

Well im dead and im still not scum unless fakegod has decided to change my wincon without telling me.

Its probably oversoul.