We The Purple II Game Over

[Espsyoncheage]

Wow so 24 pages since my last post. That is something.

[Espsyoncheage]

Singer's attacks on me have been "low" even by her own standards and she learns nothing to attack Oversoul for being VLA.

Can I take you aside for a minute? Because I had to leave the thread when you started arguing this one for a bit. Now I know what it's like to be attacked for things beyond your control (see Shos and Ceph in Mod Error, Shos in InYuasha) and it's frustrating, but Singer was clearly not doing that so I don't know why you keep going to that well. I don't know where you got that feeling and I don't want to argue you over it, but I think you are wrong on that count. Also to say she has been suspicious of Oversoul only that he is now on V/la is disingenuous when she's been scumreading him for pretty much the entire game, well before he declared a v/la.

[Espsyoncheage]

If I thought she did marginalize your out of game reasons for being absent I'd be right there with you.

[Espsyoncheage]

Yeah if you want.

I'm more interested in this post of mine though...

@Espy, Singer is doing that thing where scum direct conversation and play "peacemaker" while encouraging the conflict. She was doing that to me and Wisdom. She was encouraging me to keep pushing on TWIE but providing no substance to her support of me. Now, she's voting me while pushing the same platitudes. Look at Gundam Seed for a textbook example of peacemaker scum and you should see the play style from Singer is similar but with fewer posts.

@Wisdom, Just stop posting. Join us on vla. No one can bitch about us over posting if we are not here. Also, you're seeing vague "no scum motivation" from Espy BTW. Isn't it annoying? It's just a rephrase of too scummy to be scum.

I can see this thought. What is your perspective on the things we were just talking about?

Like when I asked this earlier.

Which for context since it was about 40 pages ago, specifically where Wisdom was saying that Singer was manipulating everyone and was disagreeing there. To me that is a sticking point of whether I'll be convinced she's not town or not. Because nothing in the last 25 pages has changed things for me, and the things I wanted addressed about the case on her were left unaddressed. I'll go dig for the proper sets of posts if you can't recall.

[Espsyoncheage]

Psyche just sheep me (and since I am you, really you are just sheeping yourself... es

PSY

on

CHE

age). All your worries will go away.

[Espsyoncheage]

Singer was posting defending my case on TWIE stating that TWIE had done nothing productive and it was Wisdom's job to produce evidence. She goes so far as to QFT my posts... if I think that Bacon is town. That to me says she scumreads TWIE for the exact reasons I do. Why do this if TWIE was not a scumread?

Then a wagon starts forming on us. Suddenly, she could vote either of us, yet is still defending my stance on TWIE. Ok, I figure she's annoyed with Bacon but is just expressing frustration because she's not getting what she wants (namely a townread from Wisdom and him to vote TWIE).

Yet, she suddenly votes us, claims TWIE is not a scumread and that we are. She essentially 180s on all her positions and basically chocks off the dialogue with Wisdom as trying to each him a lesson. No. When she voted us, my read immediately soured because you don't push something that long with a scumread and quote them for truth and then immediately vote them because a wagon shows up.

Which as I said before didn't make sense to me either and remains the one big blemish in her play. UGH. The disconnect I have here is now that this one really scummy thing has led you to confirmbias other things about her play and it's kinda turning me off. Wisdom was nitpicking over the most insignificant thing for the longest time that everyone could see wasn't relevant. I am really turned off by some of the nitpicking on Singer now (like the incorrect assertion about her read on Oversoul). I see a Singer lynch and I feel really meh about it because I see this anthology of Singer's play to be pretty town. She has a similar mindset that I do (AP agrees with me there) and it's difficult to say 'this person is scum' when I agree with the approach that person has. It's silly to say (which wisdom tried to argue) that she is trying to appease me (or AP) because who the hell are we that she needs to appease us? Thought processes are good, reads are good (one glaring issue notwithstanding).

But then there is that one glaring issue of inconsistency with her reads. Do I take this essentially one bad moment as a scumslip or something else? Multiple people have adequately argued that this was a scumslip Singer, I don't know that you've argued adequately that it is something else. And that's where I'm at right now. My other two heads are v/la and I'm waiting for them. My two top townreads (Sonic and Singer) are at odds and scumreading each other, and one is being seriously wagoned. AP and HH are kinda sane voices of reason and they haven't joined this...

I look at this

Singersigner: Sonic boom, Bert, thewayitends, randomidget, bacon and egg, Generic,

And most of those names don't inspire me with confidence.

Preedit:

*discussion between SB/BE where singer thinks BE is scummy/bullshit for expecting everyone else to produce a case that proves differently than what he thinks...apparently this means that her aforementioned town read of TWIE is invalid*
HH: Let's vote one of Bacon or Sonic Boom
Singer: Ok! vote: Sonic
Sonic: Whaaat. Singer must be scum! #V/LA.
Singer: wow, why haven't you responded to things I've been asking you to respond to before you went V/LA?
Titus: WTF SINGER I'M CLEARLY GONE FOR A LEGITIMATE REASON HOW DARE YOU ATTACK ME FOR NEEDING TO TEND TO MY FRIEND MY LIFE IS DIFFICULT WITH DRIVING BACK AND FORTH FROM THE HOSPITALS SOMETHING YOU CLEARLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT (Glork being treated for cancer 30 miles away begs to differ) SO HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY BLAME ME FOR GOING V/LA OR ACCUSE ME OF DOING IT TACTFULLY
Singer: Woah...uh, no where did I do that? I never accused you of not having a legitimate reason for going V/LA and now you're flipping out and completely twisting the entire context of me just wanting you to answer my questions, but your overreaction here makes me feel like I've caught on to something.
Titus: What overreaction?? You clearly are attacking me for going V/LA when I had a legitimate reason.
Singer: No, I was attacking your avoidance of answering my questions before you went V/LA when you had plenty of time to do so...oh wait, my bad, I see you did answer my question, but now I actually do think you're scum because of the way you're reacting right now.
Titus: Now you're attacking me for being a decent person by taking care of my friend???

Oh and this is seriously terrible Singer.

[Espsyoncheage]

I mean you highlight the single worst thing you've done in the game (180ing on Sonic)....Now you're just taunting Titus about the v/la thing. Yeah she's wrong about it, no you don't need to highlight it.

[Espsyoncheage]

When I have to be a legit voice of reason we have a problem....because I've been a voice of unreason for nearly the entire game.

[Espsyoncheage]

When I have to be a legit voice of reason we have a problem....because I've been a voice of unreason for nearly the entire game.

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't think that means what you think it means.

[Espsyoncheage]

Right now I'm disagreeing with your scumread...and that's the

wrong

side? What?

[Espsyoncheage]

okay i got it wrong that time espsy

I think you're looking for http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... AboveItAll

[Espsyoncheage]

Espsy your vote is useless.

At one point it was the best vote so I give up *shrug*

[Espsyoncheage]

[/b]

I'm pretty sure I only have one vote, and also I was the first to hydrate Bacon and Eggs so long ago...

[Espsyoncheage]

Espsy your vote is useless.

At one point it was the best vote so I give up *shrug*

Are you townreading Oversoul?

I'm not reading him anything. Maybe was a scumread early in the game, but way too much has gone on without him that I have no feeling one way or another. He's either gonna do more of the same (in which case we can lynch with fire) or get replaced. He has a little time before either of those things officially happen though.

[Espsyoncheage]

The Oversoul lynch is precisely like the Cabd lynch was in Mod Error. Precisely. Counterwagon to scum (shos there, singer here), on a lurker that was playing badly and was pending replacement.

What did Cabd flip, ns? What did Cabd flip, Cephrir?

We lynched Katsuki....

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh right, Cabd was also the Katsuki counterwagon Day 1 and that's what I was thinking.

[Espsyoncheage]

@TBoner: Ok? There is a 0% chance of B/E getting lynched Today. You should do something useful with your vote. If you think Singer is town, then voting OS is a good idea?

I'm halfway convinced to vote her so my vote is gonna stay parked for now.

[Espsyoncheage]

I think Titus is town though :/

[Espsyoncheage]

Titus why do you keep calling Oversoul a "lurker counter wagon to save my own ass" when other people (esp?) have already pointed out that I've been calling him scum the entire game and I even started the day with a vote on him? That's a severe misrep of what it is an you know it.

@Esp...my scum porn was only in response to her yet again, incorrectly bringing up how I'm apparently attacking her for going V/LA and trying to hyperbolically explain how it looks in my eyes.

Yes well that's a minor thing and it only served to try to rile Titus up. I'm way more concerned about the thing I've been concerned by for the last 50 pages or however long it's been.

[Espsyoncheage]

Also, can I interest anyone in a randomized wagon? Eh? Eeeeehhhh?

Also do you know how it feels that Wisdom is almost being a reasonable poster and a little convincing? It's like I have put a knife through my gut.

[Espsyoncheage]

Quick Wisdom be unreasonable so I feel better

[Espsyoncheage]

He's still in the game. (inorite?)

[Espsyoncheage]

I promise this will take under 90 seconds.

Spoiler: This is randomidget

ricastle town, AFB town, oversoul maybe town, sonic boom scum, GIF maybe scum

it's multiball and >95% of posts are easily fucking faked.

These posts don't seem like they belong together.

also, I would like to make a formal request that we attempt to keep the rate of posting down this game

the last thing I want to see in this game is a 200 fucking page day 1; and no, I don't really care if you think more posts will make it easier to sort people. this is more so the case when it's multiball and >95% of posts are easily fucking faked.

Amen

VOTE: Sonic Boom

This is a wagon for justice and if there is anything in the game that needs Tk be lynched for overall health it is this
Not dealing with another Titus scum in Signs and Void
Not even going to try

Please don't

drink

play league of legends

policy lynch

-C

don't start on league of legends fam

How did you know my life was basically alcohol LoL and Mafia? d:

I do two of these things.
VOTE: sonic boom

hydrate: singersigner

PEdit: oversoul all you need to know is that I'm always town. Every. Single. Time. Apart from once. Which coincidentally was a multiball.

Also is seoki x Naomi a corpse play reference?
PEdit: We could hydrate sonic

I'm going to ISO a few people and make a readslist later.
I think we should hydrate mariomaniac or p2 I.e. someone who looks town but replaced in and so won't have been able to contribute enough.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: seiko

Sorry, i'm struggling to find time to keep up with thus game and post.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: bacon eggs
This was a while back, but I feel their defense of Seiko was either desperately tryinng to defend a buddy or trying to gsin towncred if Seiko flips town. Also weird how zzzx comes in strongly townreading sonic after BROs starts to put pressure back onto him.

I've played with TWIE at least a couple times and I have never had any issues with him, so can we stop this horrifying backandforth?

I dont mind the guy but if he will just keep talking to sonic about that bullshit which pushes sonic to reply I will flip out.

I know sonic and he is the same kind of guy as I am in those cases, I cant shut up if I see bullshit.

Dont defend metal sonic. One of {TWIE, MS} is ruining this game and its not TWIE.

I agree fullheartedly with this post.

Aye

Just because you agree with someone's scumhunting doesnt mean they are town in a multiball.
The game is slowing down so I should be able to srart contributing.

Make of this what you will, but full English has repeatedly said he wants the people attacking him dead without explaining why.
Seiko is possible scum as they did seem panicky. If they are probably on the same team as bacon and eggs due to the weird defence.
Mariomaniac needs to do more before I have a read on him.
p2 looks town as he seems very relaxed and comfortable with doing his own thing.
I am flip-flopping on sonic, I would appreciate it if he was NKed so I don't have to figure him out.
Generic is pretty townie, but some meta on him would be nice.
I still think homunculus is town, he seems frustrated to me and the arguments against him don't sit right with me.
Angry frat bros is null-town, as I like his reads and his more aggressive style of play. I don't think he is on the same team as most of my scumreads.
I'm going to look into rune's slot and ricastle.
Everyone else needs more content before I feel confident giving a read.

OMFG I HAD A LOAD OF QUOTES QUOTED AND NOW THEY HAVE DISAPPEARED.
I will do it later, but this it surmised. I went through a period where I was lynched day 1 a lot. I definitely get better as the game goes on, but I'm getting better day 1.
I dislike how some people are scumreading me for both OMGUSing and not reading the thread, which are hard to do together.
Ricastle used a goid worf whivh I had forgotten - whiteknighting. That is why i'm scumreading eggs.
I have played another large - NY 179.
Will reread last few pages and try again later.

I'm gettinng Fed up with this game because i'm getting scumread for things I can't defend because they aren't actually scummy, and the people willing to lurk with me continue to replace out. I feel that bacon and egg is scum as thry kerp saying thst they are town and that anyone who says otherwise is scum, which sounds like a guilty conscience. Town lurk just as much as scum do. It is true I made the readslist because I needed to put some content out, but thst doesn't mean the rrads weren't real or scummy.
Also cait wtf. You just said you havr never yhought I was zcum and yet vote me. Was thst a typo or a scumslip?

I feel that bacon and egg is scum as thry kerp saying thst they are town and that anyone who says otherwise is scum, which sounds like a guilty conscience.

Where did I say that whoever says I am not town is scum again?

~Wis

You repeatedly said you wanted me and ricastle (the people voting you) dead. Come to think of it that could be a scumslip because if he was town he could just say lynched.

Big 5

Openness - town, they should have nothing to hide.
Adventurousness - I think town as they are the ones trying yi take over the game.
Artistic interests - maybe mafia as I don't feel this relates to the game and could be generating content
Emotionality - I tend to see more emotional scum than town ad it is harder for them to make real cases.
Imagination - I think town as they are going to try and thinkabout the game more than scum.
Intellect - seeing as I am intellectual and I am town, town
Authority-challenging - scum, as they are going to be worried that authority will find and lynch them,

Conscientiousness -scum as they are going to be thinking about what other players think more.
Achievement striving - don't know for this one.
Cautiousness - mafia as they are going to be more worried about being lynched than town.
Dutifulness - mafia as they have to try to keep their team alive mire than town.
Orderliness - mafia, as they know what is goi g on have a clearly idea of the game in their head
Self-discipline - mafia as they are going to need to control themselves from slipping.
Self-efficacy - town, opposite reasons to above.

Extraversion - town, needs to talk to people to figure stuff out.
Activity level - null
Assertiveness - scum as they will want to control people.
Cheerfulness - null, I would say this is about the player.
Excitement-seeking - town, the thrill of the hunt, the game's afoot etc,
Outgoing - town
Gregariousness

Agreeableness
Altruism
Cooperation
Modesty
Uncompromising
Sympathy
Trust

Emotional range
Fiery
Prone to worry
Melancholy
Immoderation
Self-consciousness
Susceptible to stress

Needs
Challenge
Closeness
Curiosity
Excitement
Harmony
Ideal
Liberty
Love
Practicality
Self-expression
Stability
Structure

Values
Conservation
Openness to change
Hedonism
Self-enhancement
Self-transcendence

So before I start confabulating about my results, I wonder which of these detected in one's iso you guys think would be positive or negatively correlated with having a town or a scum role pm?

I'll do the rest later.
Mala answer my question.
Singer can you explain why you voted me.

Nice username Katarina
Gonna read the last few pages

VOTE: bacon and eggs
im heer

hydrate psyche

I'm getting back here. In the last exchange it doesn't look good for singer.
VOTE: singer
They srem to be trying to put pressure on bacon and eggs without actually engaging him

[Espsyoncheage]

I want you to realize, Wisdom has 6000% more posts than Randommidget....

[Espsyoncheage]

And I may be bad at math.

[Espsyoncheage]

Quick Wisdom be unreasonable so I feel better

ns she is not town. She is just good at twisting things and if you are not keeping up with the exchanges in real time you read them and think she is right and town and everything.

You have to trust me, you know how I pick up scum in real time.

PHEW

[Espsyoncheage]

He is. I just looked at the activity overview. Random isn't even due a prod but has less than 10 posts the entire game. My question is, why would Singer attack someone on VLA always default to wagon a lurker on VLA when she could have doubtcasted Random's vote and got a much less rephrensible wagon going there?

...this did actually happen and got ignored when she did...

[Espsyoncheage]

And this is why I am going back and forth because you are confirmbiasing your entire view point and it's really hard for me to take that seriously Titus...stahp that. Even if singer is scum not every post is a scumclaim...

[Espsyoncheage]

HH who is posting Ceph or Cheet?

[Espsyoncheage]

And this is why I am going back and forth because you are confirmbiasing your entire view point and it's really hard for me to take that seriously Titus...stahp that. Even if singer is scum not every post is a scumclaim...

I'm not confbiasing my entire viewpoint. There's one thing in catching scum, engaging in a dialogue and not letting them go. Part of me though, being emotionally honest, says I'm inclined to discount anything that says Singer is town due to her actions in the thread WHICH I KNOW FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME SINGER YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH.

That's not what I'm saying. But when you go 'why would singer attack oversoul all of a sudden and ignore randomidget' when that didn't happen, regardless of her alignment, yeah you're a little inclined just to dismiss things because you are scumread her/mad at her, and it's a turn off.

preedit: I just wanted to know cause sometimes you post at the same time and it's weird, and it's just information I wanted to file away.

[Espsyoncheage]

FUCK IT GAH

Vote: Singer

Psyche time to sheep esPSYonCHEage

I'm leaving before we get to 300 pages...

#/thread

[Espsyoncheage]

Singersigner: Sonic boom, Bert, thewayitends, randomidget,

bacon and egg

, Generic,

espsyoncheage

THIS HURTS ME MORE THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW

[Espsyoncheage]

I guess the upside is that you could still be crossed killed but if I'm dead I also don't have to deal with you so I'll let everyone figure out you would've been the better lynch all along.

and where was your vote when this was a real possibility?

[Espsyoncheage]

Let's talk about how Bacon completely dropped randomized as a viable lynch option D2 after e was one of your priorities D1, and he just so happened to pop in the thread almost two days ago to vote park me after not having posted for several days.

I wouldn't mind a wagon swinging over there either!

and when Bacon had FIVE votes and at least two other players weren't opposed to his lynch where was your vote?

[Espsyoncheage]

I guess the upside is that you could still be crossed killed but if I'm dead I also don't have to deal with you so I'll let everyone figure out you would've been the better lynch all along.

and where was your vote when this was a real possibility?

Voting myself? I wasn't about to HELP the wagon speed along...wtf. That's called a 1v1 which is sooooo scum sided.

The Bacon wagon...

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm ETL.

This this meant to troll me?

Also now your confirmbias is kinda silly...

[Espsyoncheage]

Is linking to MD against site rules?

[Espsyoncheage]

I guess the upside is that you could still be crossed killed but if I'm dead I also don't have to deal with you so I'll let everyone figure out you would've been the better lynch all along.

and where was your vote when this was a real possibility?

Voting myself? I wasn't about to HELP the wagon speed along...wtf. That's called a 1v1 which is sooooo scum sided.

The Bacon wagon...

I didn't think he was scum yet. Even after he started pushing me I didn't think he was scum until he started misrepping the crap out of me and it looked like he was doing it on purpose instead of just being wrong. If there's anything you've accused me of being unclear about, my progression with him definitely hasn't been.

IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED YOU HAVE BROKEN MY HEART

[Espsyoncheage]

I guess the upside is that you could still be crossed killed but if I'm dead I also don't have to deal with you so I'll let everyone figure out you would've been the better lynch all along.

and where was your vote when this was a real possibility?

Voting myself? I wasn't about to HELP the wagon speed along...wtf. That's called a 1v1 which is sooooo scum sided.

The Bacon wagon...

I didn't think he was scum yet. Even after he started pushing me I didn't think he was scum until he started misrepping the crap out of me and it looked like he was doing it on purpose instead of just being wrong. If there's anything you've accused me of being unclear about, my progression with him definitely hasn't been.

IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED YOU HAVE BROKEN MY HEART

THE WORST PART IS THAT IF YOU FLIP SCUM HE WILL BE

INSUFFERABLE

[Espsyoncheage]

Prod dodging. Bone is v/la this week, I expect wgurts and Anen to pick up the slack because they are back.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm back!
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

Seriously though, oversoul is a bad wagon.
I'd rather lynch someone from {Generic/Ika/Psyche}.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

I honestly don't have one yet, I quickly reread the game before posting this the last few days however I'm doing a more detailed reread in which I checking my thoughts. I could however see cait as being scum and ZZZX was null-town for me. This may change within the coming day or so when I check my reasons for my reads and analyse each ISO individually.

[Espsyoncheage]

The english in that post was horrendous, sorry about that. I should proof read my posts more.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

what do you dislike about the oversoul wagon

Oversoul is a town read of mine. I'd rather see one of my scum reads flip.

[Espsyoncheage]

hydrate: cait

VOTE: oversoul
L-2
I hate bacon I want to lynvh bacon but I don't want to follow AP.

Sometimes you see a post like this and you just got to lynch it. His entire ISO is one post every 4 days to join whatever the largest bandwagon is. At a certain point we just gotta stop and ask "is this really town"? He's definitely aware enough of the game to recognize he put the wagon at L-2 despite the nearest vote count being after this post.

vote: randomidget

I have an important question. Who was the player who first suggested this game is 13:3:3?

(It's Bone)

[Espsyoncheage]

Typo I meant 11:3:3.

And a show of hands who agrees with this?

[Espsyoncheage]

Because the suggestion is fucking ridiculous? 6 scum in a 17 player game...let's get real, the fearmongering someone was doing (was it AP?) over the game already being lost on Day 3 was quite scummy, and I'd like to lynch that person. I didn't want to go back to find it because I'm just really skimming this week and letting the other two play but that was bothering me so

[Espsyoncheage]

So we're at what. 3:3:7?

Thats pretty par for multiball games. Can we just concede?

VOTE: Bacon/Egg

I'm going to be a whiny fucking bitch until one of us is dead.

Like seriously what the fuck is this? "We've already lost, lets just lynch Wisdom". While I am down for lynching Wisdom you can't be serious.

[Espsyoncheage]

It wasn't as bad as I remembered in my head so I'm just gonna drop it right now. I think the suggestion that we're in MyLo on Day 3 in a large though is quite ridiculous though.

[Espsyoncheage]

I mean it's not important what the set-up is. This was my thought process. Last time I looked through the thread was on Sunday maybe? I thought I saw a few posts in which someone said "we need to lynch right or might as well give up" citing that unbalanced number in the process. I thought it was manipulative as fuck. But now I can't find those posts so I guess they didn't actually happen.

[Espsyoncheage]

Basically I thought someone(s) was trying to manipulate the playerlist with the fear of an extremely unbalanced set-up, but I guess that didn't actually happen.

[Espsyoncheage]

Bone what are your thoughts on the "Seiko protected me so I'm town" thing? Asking since you're apparently suspecting AP.

Where did this happen? Are we just going by Seiko townreading AP or did he say something to indicate otherwise?

[Espsyoncheage]

Not in much detail, I'm really busy this week, but I had a little free time so I thought I would skim the last 25 pages I have missed since the day of the day. I know that it is a topic, I don't know the details.

[Espsyoncheage]

That's silly? NS probably had a way of protecting himself from the kill(s). Doctor is silly, Hider is plausible. But Doctor is a really silly argument.

[Espsyoncheage]

Or crazy thought if the set-up is 3-3-11 scum couldn't kill N1? *shrug*. In an optimal use of scumkills we'd be in MyLo on Day 2, but with the lack of power all around though I think it was 13-2-2 to begin with.

Hider is more plausible than a doctor. Or maybe he just had a strong read on AP. Trying to out-guess the set-up is when players start making bad decisions on things they don't actually know. Just ask those of us who just finished We Didn't Playtest This to see how that worked out for the town (BC incorrectly lynched in 3p LyLo based on set-up information he thought he had but really didn't). It's worth discussing if you think AP is trying to use NS's dead read to manipulate people, it's not worth discussing if we're trying to figure out a set-up we have no hope of figuring out at this point.

[Espsyoncheage]

AP is not confirmed town. At best he has confirmed town townreading him.

[Espsyoncheage]

Or crazy thought if the set-up is 3-3-11 scum couldn't kill N1? *shrug*. In an optimal use of scumkills we'd be in MyLo on Day 2

I don't understand this. How would we be in mylo?

Isn't that essentially what 3:3:7 is? Yes I know it's more complicated than that, I'm just exaggerating to make my point that I don't think the set-up is THAT unbalanced.

[Espsyoncheage]

As for ns's read, it's not new for ns to strongly and stubbornly support reads, especially his townreads. I see no post of his that could be considered more than that.

Then we are on the same page on this point at least and the discussion about AP being confirmed town is ridiculous.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm just exaggerating to make my point that I don't think the set-up is THAT unbalanced.

You don't think that mylo after 1 ML is unbalanced?

I don't think that's the case in the first place. Either way it doesn't change what we have to do today.

[Espsyoncheage]

Do I have to be cliche and really say "guyz we have to lynch scum today?"

I argued that because it would be MyLo after a mislynch that the set-up isn't that.

[Espsyoncheage]

Ugh getting off track again

[Espsyoncheage]

You seem to understand but say you don't understand so I don't know what's going on.

[Espsyoncheage]

ZZZX is weird for me. Like he could be faking this because he doesn't want to be tracked (fear of this for some reason if scum) or admit he's been hydrated at night (to avoid drawing the NK as either alignment), or this could have really happened (which we don't have any information to contradict this otherwise). But what is ZZZX pushing on us by claiming this result? What does he as scumZZZX get out of this?

[Espsyoncheage]

He's sarcastically claiming scum Oversoul...

[Espsyoncheage]

He's belittling Wisdom's argument by admitting to pretty much what Wisdom is accusing him of doing in a sarcastic way to make it sound ridiculous so we'll brush it off.

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't really think he's lying about it, I more question this "cop"'s choices. Though ZZZX's stance on it was weird too. He found both targets completely normal and said that he is expecting to be acting as a proxy for the cop in the future too.

Just another case of us not being able to get much out of speculating about things we don't know. The only thing we do know is that ZZZX made this claim, so the only thing to question is if the claim is true or not, and why he is making this claim if not true.

[Espsyoncheage]

in any case I don't like ZZZX, he has been promising theories and posts and stuff since yesterday and he continues not delivering and delaying it.

His defensive tone in regards to accusations about him lying about the claim also reminded me of a marathon I played with him where he was scum.

I agree. O.O

(What kind of black magic is this?)

Our lynch pool contains: generic(his), ZZZX(both), ika(both), randomidget(mine), Cait(kinda mine).

[Espsyoncheage]

in any case I don't like ZZZX, he has been promising theories and posts and stuff since yesterday and he continues not delivering and delaying it.

His defensive tone in regards to accusations about him lying about the claim also reminded me of a marathon I played with him where he was scum.

I agree. O.O

(What kind of black magic is this?)

Our lynch pool contains: generic(his), ZZZX(both), ika(both), randomidget(mine), Cait(kinda mine).

and TWIE

[Espsyoncheage]

By default that's townreads to everyone else right now...

[Espsyoncheage]

TWIE's continued lack of content has started annoying me to be honest.

Did you see my reason for randomidget town, Bone?

No.

[Espsyoncheage]

Turns out I never actually posted GIF's reason for randomidget town

He found these posts in the Mini Theme queue:

/In for horses
(please be scum)

/confirm for pokemon
I really really really want to be scum for once.

(they're both before this game and the latter was just before)

and figured that if randomidget had finally rolled scum here, he would be playing much more actively instead of just having made 8 posts. His apathy more likely shows that he is town once more.

You're appealing to the wrong player with the meta argument. He could just as easily be a player who doesn't post regardless of alignment. What in game has he done to say he's town for you?

[Espsyoncheage]

Also Fresh you may feel free to proxy any and all of your votes to me

[Espsyoncheage]

Hydrate: Fresh

[Espsyoncheage]

Because policy-lynches vs. Wisdom is a day. See me on Day 1 and 2, and AP on 2 and 3

[Espsyoncheage]

*is a thing fuck

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm sold too actually.

vote: ika

(lets see if randomidget jumps on this one too)

[Espsyoncheage]

embrace meta

Nooo Dougie...blasphemous words....

[Espsyoncheage]

VOTE: espeyoncheage

What's this? I am SO SHOCKED by this turn of events. Randomidget putting his vote on yet another leading bandwagon! I am utterly flabbergasted that this would happen!

Vote: randomidget

I mean you guys can lynch us, I'm not engaged right now because of v/la and my partners are doing fuck all despite promises that they will. I rather think we should be hydrated cause it looks like we're one of the few that isn't, but it's no big deal. You guys are as apathetic about lynching me as I am about being lynched. The scum among you probably can't believe this is gaining traction atm.

[Espsyoncheage]

This glorified prod-dodge is brought to you by the letter "T". And I'll be back Wednesdayish?

[Espsyoncheage]

lol. What in the entirety of this game would suggest that this lynch will go well? Well for scum maybe. Well for town? No. No. Not at all.

[Espsyoncheage]

I've been really busy the last few days, can everyone stop posting 15 pages worth of posts overnight?
No I haven't finished my second detailed reread ane I doubt I will at this rate, however I'm here to talk about stuff if you've got questions. It seems I was right about ika, my next suspect is TWIE.

[Espsyoncheage]

My lynchpool is:
TWIE
----Gap----
Generic
Hom Hom
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

Ah, generic flipped. Ignore that then.

[Espsyoncheage]

Wait let me go do some VCA, this should be interesting.

[Espsyoncheage]

Gah, that was underwhelming. Their flips give almost no information.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm thinking there's at least two scum in Fresh/Hom Hom/TWIE
Oversoul is hard town and I'm going to take a look at her wagon again.
Sonic Book is also town.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm sorry, I'm fucking moving house and I'm trying to follow the games I'm in instead if going VLA or replacing out. Yeah I've missed a fucking huge chunk of this game. And although that's making my posts a clusterfuck my reads are serious, when they're not on dead people I haven't realised are dead.

[Espsyoncheage]

Geez at least have some conviction like you guys actually think we're scum. This is such a apathetic mislynch it's kinda pathetic.

Hammer please so I can wash my hands of this game.

[Espsyoncheage]

Also Mod I'm voting randomiget thank you very much.

[Espsyoncheage]

Hi I'm T-Bone and VCA is bullshit. Just because wgurts wants to use it doesn't mean you blanket it on my slot. I'm the one voting, not him.

[Espsyoncheage]

Then who should be voting oh great Wisdom? Because you don't even believe we're scum do you? Don't answer that, your posting is apparent.

[Espsyoncheage]

Uh huh

[Espsyoncheage]

You haven't been listening to anyone all game, why start now?

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh, finally I have some time.
You all must have missed me terribly.

–Ane

By the way, why are we wagoned?

[Espsyoncheage]

Generic wanted HH lynched yesterday, and HH is most likely going to be today's main push given how he wanted to not lynch ika, so that's probably who.

Where did this idea go?

Speaking of defending ika, I still don't like Fresh's last posts. It looked like he wanted to defend ika, then changed his mind and wanted to lynch him.

Didn't I tell you a couple of times that Fresh's slot is scum?

(Oh My Gods, what happened? Have I just started to agree with B&E?)

Also isn't it weird that Oversoul himself wasn't voting ika if that was an attempt at a counterwagon?

q.q
Honestly, I don't know anymore.
Like, this is super valid, but like maybe Oversoul felt like he might make himself look bad if he joined the ika wagon or something?

Sounds so fake.

Still don't like Psyche scum. I'm thinking more of an unintentional dick than scum.
I'm thinking Fresh or HH should be the lynch today (provided AP's quotes check out).

WTFLMAO
Fresh = Psyche.

Well if I wanted to lynch pink scum I'd probably vote SB or Fresh. Other scum is... espsy? ????

Seems to be the first occasion our name was mentioned Today.
Let's see whether our wagon is a result of compromising on someone useless.

I feel like scum is pretty damn likely to be in Oversoul and ZZZX largely from PoE.
Espy might still be scum.
Sonic might still be scum.
I'll try to take a case on Fresh seriously but I really really felt like Psyche was town and it's gonna be hard to get that out of my head.
-cheet.

Look who started compromising and defending Fresh.

VOTE: Espsy
I'll claim. I got hydra'd last night. Not going to say what my role is until its relevant.

Either there's no correlation between getting hydra'd and voting for us or it's simply fake.

Fresh is pink. 100%. Espsy is probably scum just not pink.

So, AP seems to be in the other scum team.

I got a message with no result on bacon. Interesting?

It is actually.

Ok, time to break your game.
I'm the amnesiac. And I went after Bacon last night because him suddenly trying to start a lynch on me was the stupidest move he could make. I sent it to ZZZX.

Vote: Bacon and Egg

Need I believe it?
Oh, because of ZZZX. What a pity.

Going on soon.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

because reasons I don't need to reveal. Just know ZZZX is telling the truth

Okay.

Meanwhile, Sonic, AP and HH were scumreading us. Hmmm... they were testing the waters whether our wagon would work.

More lunching espsy then.

Regardless of the fact that we hadn't posted anything 'till that point of the Day.

Btw ap, why did you claim you got hydrated?

Has anyone confirmed that?

If not, they're in the other scum team and want to achieve a mislynch so as to get closer to winning.

(In my posts I call "other" the one which is not the one with Ika.)

What if scum COULDN'T kill until they were hydrated? This could be a really interesting concept especially if both scum teams started w/ 3 instead of 2. But I don't know that.
Anyway, IF scum couldn't kill until hydrated, then it makes perfect sense why there were no kills night 1.
Now we know a player gets hydrated at night. So. One scum team gets hydrated night 1, the other gets hydrated day 2. And two kills commence.
Furthermore, of the 3 public hydrations, 2 are dead town. The other is bacon who was hydrated on day 2.

Actually I've been thinking about the same thing.

Let's see here. I am a one shot commuter that absorbed both kills. My first thought is hmmm...claim so I can be shot...

Without hydration?
Excuse me, that's pigeon poop.

HH, AP, Sonic, B&E (If I can understand Fresh's Night Action well) – the scums must be there.

________

I think the scum teams must consist of three members and Fresh's thoughts may make sense. If so, there are 5 scums and all of them are interested in a mis-lynch.
Just read back the thread where our name started to be mentioned. (And we hadn't posted anything 'till then!!!) Ika's team may go for a town or an other scum team lynch, whereas the other team's pretty much interested in a mislynch. Just do the math!
Therefore I'm saying that HH, AP or Sonic should be lynched. I'm unsure about Random, though.
If noone says anything about the part I bolded above, AP is the lynch.

– Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

And that post technically confirmed that

you

are in the larger scum group, Sonic.
Gut says, I wouldn't be surprised if both you and TWIE had been in the same scum group.

–Ane

Post-edit. Meanwhile, HH started to discredit us. I'm not surprised, however, HH, you've overdone it a bit. You needn't have done so at all because we're at L–1. Had you done nothing, you might have earned more town credit. (And you would really have needed that town credit, I think.)

[Espsyoncheage]

By the way, I know it's mere self-meta but many of you know me. As scum, I'm much more active. Frankly, would I have waited 'till L–1 as scum to start doing something in this game?

[Espsyoncheage]

Hey Espy, did y'all sync up yet?
~Titus

It's only me here for a short while. The others are not around. As they get to their PCs they'll going to find a short summary about my Today's catchup in our Hydra Thread.

[Espsyoncheage]

For later purpose: the recent interactions only strengthens my reads on a HH/Sonic team. Noone else is active around and whoever drops by later can see a 2vs1 fight. Ockham's Razor would suggest that we're the scum... but if I'm right and there are 3-member teams, this sort of cooperation might win them the game.

[Espsyoncheage]

Wait so if it's 5:3:2 we can't lynch espy unless their team busses?
That sucks a huge donkey dick

You can't lynch us unless at least one townie joins the wagon.

[Espsyoncheage]

Sonic, we will talk about HH tonight, I like the synergy and sarcasm as of late. Given he was so shitty earlier and his ika interactions... are blah but his recent posting is good.
~Titus

So fake, so fake...

Reply to my post or shut the fuck up.

Ok good please tell your partner to shoot me tonight kthx

Team AtE attack. You want to make me rage and it won't work.

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh man where is that hubris now?

Vote: Bacon and Eggs

I love it.

[Espsyoncheage]

Well since I'm town I'm pretty happy for your lynch. But okay to fit YOUR narrative I'm scum and very happy for your lynch. In what scenario should I be disappointed by this? I'm getting the scumlynch I've dreamed of all game.

[Espsyoncheage]

I honestly and truly do hope you flip scum, because for you to have been miserable to play with for a large portion of the game and being town would be a terrible thing.

OOC: I do appreciate you toning it down the last couple of days, honestly.

[Espsyoncheage]

But hey let's talk about 'random' wagons. You drove a lynch on a hydra to L-1 who's main head was V/La, and then tried to deflect our posting today as 'lurkers who don't want to be called scum'. I do remember a certain breakfast option not wanting people to lynch Oversoul while he was V/la. And don't give me this shit how I have two other active heads when it's been me for 90% of this game.

[Espsyoncheage]

"plenty of things"

lol

[Espsyoncheage]

If we honestly lynch Wisdom I will fall on a sword if you want.

[Espsyoncheage]

Ok first things first, with AP claiming Commuter, there's no way that Bacon isn't a) scum himself or b) knows precisely who a scum is. Sonic, you're living in a fairytale land if you think that Bacon is still clueless and town. So I'm taking over and kicking ass. Sorry but set up spec boundaries are my thing. I think we both saw what we wanted to see there with Bacon. I don't know but you and I are in for a long time of recalibrating.

I had Bacon penciled in as a commuter because that made sense with the setup. We needed some way to explain how both Seiko and Bacon lived. Dual commuters and hiders make zero sense whatsoever. Putting Seiko as a hider and bacon as a commuter makes some sense (not flawless but enough).

The second moonlogicky thing was that I thought "What if the first hydrate was immune from kills?" That would almost have to be true given the game becomes really common sense bordering on stupid because otherwise the hydrate just dies each and every night. Yet, Cait died, so hydrates cannot be immune from kills unless its role specific or scum have a strongman.

So we can conclude (Seiko hider + AP Commuter of Unknown but Probably Town Alignment, or at least one faction has a strongman). Bacon, didn't process this immediately, so I figured it was moonlogicky. The ascetic thing I figured was commuter. Given that universe is impossible, that leaves us with Bacon is scum or knows who is.

A) Hider + Commuter + Whoever Wisdom hydrated is a scum roleblocker
B) Hider + Commuter + Bacon scum
C) Whoever gets hydrated is immune from nightkills AND Wisdom hydrated is a strongman.

Given A, Wisdom's not outing who he hydrated is tantamount to him saying he hydrated his buddy. Doubly so given Wisdom hasn't claimed Ascetic early on. Third, I cannot imagine a hydrate based on popular election being a negative utility role.
B leads to Wis scum.
C is the only scenario where Wisdom is town, but in that case, why hasn't Wisdom just outed who was hydrated by him?

I don't see any result that has Bacon as town given that AP claimed commuter. It's a hell of a stretch to say that AP fake claimed commuter as well given his play so far this game. That is technically a possibility but one that I do not by.

Mama's back in charge.

VOTE: Bacon and Egg

~ObvTitus

I'd like to take this for a moment Titus while I have your attention. What have we learned from 'We Didn't Playtest This' and 'InYuasha'? Don't make decisions based on set-up spec!

[Espsyoncheage]

He probably hydrated randomidget, because he didn't hydrate any of his townreads, a few players are already hydrated, and we don't have any dead players with unaccounted for hydrations.

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh lol are you claiming you hydrated me? Please say that is what you're inferring.

[Espsyoncheage]

That

I

shouldn't do that? What kind of drugs are you on?

[Espsyoncheage]

Example of why set-up spec is a side conversation at best, and certainly nothing to actually hang your hat on. Wisdom isn't scum for anything he's done this game but is suddenly scum because AP claimed commuter and convoluted set-up spec? Does anyone else not have a problem with this? I'm not trying to fight this lynch but you're making it really hard to not fight your vote when you are making incredibly wild assumptions about shit YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

[Espsyoncheage]

Plus if he's scum you're giving him an out based on set-up spec that you actually don't know anything about. But hey sure...set-up spec, great tool...

[Espsyoncheage]

Example of why set-up spec is a side conversation at best, and certainly nothing to actually hang your hat on. Wisdom isn't scum for anything he's done this game but is suddenly scum because AP claimed commuter and convoluted set-up spec? Does anyone else not have a problem with this? I'm not trying to fight this lynch but you're making it really hard to not fight your vote when you are making incredibly wild assumptions about shit YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

Honey, show me where I've been alive and someone was "conftown" based off setup spec and that cost us the game due to my decision with that and I'll maybe start listening to you.

You can't because that doesn't happen.

I scumhunt by taking the outer boundaries and working things out. Outer boundaries here, say Wisdom's scum, AP's scum (unlikely), or his hydrate is. We can't make a scenario where that isn't true.

~Titus

Honey this ain't about you and your decision making, this is about you thinking you know something when you actually know nothing, and spreading misinformation about the things you don't know and getting others to follow along with things you don't know. You know all the nothings actually. You don't even know if AP is making a truthful claim. If AP is scum he knows way more about the set-up and can make an appropriate claim. So yeah your set-up spec falls apart in post #0 of this thread cause you don't know.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm arguing semantics but if Wisdom gives you the answer and you go back to mislynching me then I don't want you to continue to make bad decisions about things you don't know when I'm not here to argue you down.

[Espsyoncheage]

Like, you can't honestly be this bad about it. I understand clinging to VCA (even though that's something easily manipulated), I understanding clinging to meta (even though that is easily manipulated), I don't understand clinging to a tool that requires you to make decisions based on things you don't know and making important game decisions based on it. Set-up spec as a side conversation? Sure, worth having. Set-up spec where you go "well this player is town/scum because of how the set-up is" is dumb and you have to know that.

[Espsyoncheage]

If you want to cling to your flawed tools that's fine, but I'm always going to be there to shout you down over it. I don't want to flood the thread with this because we are getting off track.

Bacon is scum who hydrated scum and that's why he doesn't want to out his hydration. Or he's stubborn town clinging to the hope that he can salvage something out of his gameplay into a positive result. Both thoughts pretty much explain everything. But then again he was implying that he hydrated me and I'm faking it to get him lynched so...

[Espsyoncheage]

i would hydrate you

See? He did it!

[Espsyoncheage]

You just gotta read between the lines with Wisdom. I counterclaim that I have received no such hydration.

[Espsyoncheage]

I promise I doublechecked my PMs, I wasn't hydrated. Sorry.

[Espsyoncheage]

The only thing that looks close to an explanation is that I hydrated a scum roleblocker who blocked the cop?

This is obviously not the case because a) I know what stopped the cop and b) ZZZX still got a message meaning the cop couldn't have been blocked.

So?

That makes no sense....

So?

[Espsyoncheage]

Why does the explanation have to be convoluted? He has A) a role that generates a no result or...actually there is no B because roles aren't alignment dependent.

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't really understand why generating a no result is even remotely dependent on your alignment?

The only thing gamewise that is remotely dependent on your alignment is whom you hydrated, and really you can argue just about every choice as being a town choice anyway (though some are less believable than others) so even that is moot. You obviously didn't hydrate any of the players active in the thread so your choices are really limited. At this point it's a matter of why he chose who he chose more than anything else.

[Espsyoncheage]

Well obviously whatever that thing is IMPOSSIBLE because of all the things we know about the set-up so...

[Espsyoncheage]

Don't claim your role, that's not really relevant to your alignment. Any role can be a town or scum anyway. Claiming your hydration target is the only claim you have that is even relevant to your alignment (and not even completely), but you don't really have to since just about everyone has already said it wasn't them so we'll figure it out (or someone will lie to cover). It's not a secret you can keep forever anyway, we'll figure it out and we'll go from there.

[Espsyoncheage]

UNVOTE:

Another head being from mobile told me to do so.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

Vote: bacon and eggs

I'm good.

[Espsyoncheage]

uh, me being scum with bacon doesnt make sense because why would i bring up his not hydrating one of his town reads.

How is that better than me just hammering Espy 2 days ago?

A+

[Espsyoncheage]

Who's a paranoid cop?
We recieved a message saying that Randomidget is a member of the league of purple.

[Espsyoncheage]

Also, metal sonic.
I've seen her VCA be wrong plenty of times. Often including me.

[Espsyoncheage]

Ah, fresh is the paranoid cop.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

Fresh is dead, why did we get it now?

[Espsyoncheage]

Can someone list who has which PR?
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

FRESH IS DEAD
Do we have another paranoid cop or a delayer?

Pr-edit: I have no clue who has which PR.

[Espsyoncheage]

Espy is our best candidate for tridra scum based on play.

WHOA WHOA WHOA DID THAT HONESTLY JUST COME OUT OF YOUR KEYBOARD?

[Espsyoncheage]

why the shitfuck would fresh give you a result

Because T-Bone is in this hydra. I brought him to Mafiascum.

[Espsyoncheage]

just because you got lucky once doesn't make vca not garbage.

you cannot catch scum reading votecounts and not posts.

it presupposes that all players are robots

so get that shit out of here. thanks a million.

A+ posting.

[Espsyoncheage]

Anyway the obvious choice for hydration would have been TWIE to confirm him or not...so that you hydrated nothing and claiming as so....that is kinda bullshit.

And finally HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WISDOM BEEN WAITING SO LONG FOR THIS

[Espsyoncheage]

Espy is our best candidate for tridra scum

based on play

.

WHOA WHOA WHOA DID THAT HONESTLY JUST COME OUT OF YOUR KEYBOARD?

Like this is really fucking bothering me. With Wisdom's flip there is no logical reason for you to even try to push this narrative this day phase, his flip should have irrovocatively changed this fallacy from last day phase.

[Espsyoncheage]

You can make that argument. You can't make the tridra argument.

What I really don't understand is why not try to hydrate TWIE if you didn't want to risk giving new scum a power? What if he was actually pink-scum and lied to get Wisdom lynched? What if this was scumtheatre to get TWIE some massive towncred?

[Espsyoncheage]

i have to agree with espy on that one

if they are scum, they are definitely pink

i agree too

scum is scum i guess. can go die

NO NO NO NO. You made the post, you own up to it. You typed it without thinking it because THAT is the mislynch you want to set up today. You're thinking about framing us as tridras because you are pink scum.

Look at that HH! No VCA needed!

[Espsyoncheage]

Guess what guys? You fucked up!

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't see why Espy can't be Tri, and insisting it's obvious that they aren't is utter horseshit.

You don't see? YOU DON'T SEE? Are you fucking kidding me?

[Espsyoncheage]

VOTE: espy

Lets go scum 1v1.

Vote: Sonic Boom

You fucked up, you got caught.

[Espsyoncheage]

hydrate: Espsyoncheage

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm not gonna get into a shouting match about it, but I don't believe town-titus would make so many errors/allow MS to make those errors. I don't believe for a second that if Titus was town she wouldn't have thought about trying to use her hydration to confirm TWIE or not. Not even to inquire about it? That was my first thought and I didn't have the hydration power. I believe she might be slightly paranoid me and Wisdom was scum theatre, but that wouldn't be her overt thoughts. It would be "Espy is probably pink-scum, scumtheatre with Wisdom is really unlikely, more likely TWIE and Wisdom was scumtheatre if at all". The fact that she thought of none of this is inconsistent with her "consider everything philosophy".

The rest of you either agree with that or not. I don't have another explanation for this.

[Espsyoncheage]

It's not fair for me to put you on the spot MS for something your partner did so I'm not expecting you to have the answers. You can continue to post Sonic .gifs instead!

[Espsyoncheage]

But how do you insist that there are 4 scum left, and when HH points this out you say "I'm not sure I need to do the math?" There is a severe disconnect between what you say you believe and then what you do. If you're operating under the 3/3 scumteams, then you know the score well before this day phase starts, especially since we argued over this very thing yesterday with the set-up spec thing.

[Espsyoncheage]

the "math" was regarding if no lynching would be better than lynching scum today

i think you're just pink scum who was appalled/shocked that you were called out as tridra scum. you know, like those identity crisis

My god what did I just read.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

the "math" was regarding if no lynching would be better than lynching scum today

No, no, no, you can't convince me she wouldn't have already figured this out at the start of the day.

titus has HH in the spot however, so she shafted you to tridra scum

the theme here is that you are scum

So I'm scum no matter what and the HH vote was to just...push a less optimal lynch? No it was because HH challenged you on your view of the gamestate so he must be scum oh but what I must also be that scum so I guess I'm the other one now. No, no, no, you can't have it both ways.

Your words show that you don't even believe it. You just want to repeat that "Espy is scum" and hope no one really thinks about it. You messed up, sorry.

[Espsyoncheage]

TWIE is probably the Pink scum though, then Hom Hom. I'm unsure to the second tridra, I'm starting to doubt Oversoul now however.

[Espsyoncheage]

Only now that you pointed this out HH does he want to discuss it. But somehow despite the 3/3 scum being the ENTIRE basis of their view of the gamestate they have no idea if a no lynch is optimal and didn't even think to bring it up until you called them out on it?

[Espsyoncheage]

you can't convince me

sorry bro, convincing scum of any shit is my last priority.

shhhhh let the adults work. don't attempt to usurp wisdom's position as the scum shitposter. thats not nice.

You do realise that refuting people by discrediting them is a fallacy and is mostly done by scum?
If you're town discuss with T-Bone, sort each other.

[Espsyoncheage]

You do realise that refuting people by discrediting them is a fallacy and is mostly done by scum?

tell the person who talks shit about titus vca

I'm not the deluded fundamentalist that won't sway.
It may work sometimes, but it's not perfect.
Also: ironically this is just more discrediting.

[Espsyoncheage]

You do realise that refuting people by discrediting them is a fallacy and is mostly done by scum?

tell the person who talks shit about titus vca

If it makes you feel better I talk shit about all VCA.

[Espsyoncheage]

im going to bed. titus will write the walls for you and stuff while im gone. after we synch within 12h hopefully we will get a good clearer path to move towards.

we did well lynching scum the past 2 days. its just that scum suck at crosskilling.

All you did was hammer Wisdom last second and make a comment about breakfast, you're likely tridra with oversoul/AP.

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't think we'll have to lynch AP. To clarify this is my reads list at the moment:

Scum

SB ~ Tri
TWIE ~ Pink
>>GAP<<
HH ~ Pink
Oversoul ~ Tri
AP ~ Pink/Tri Dunno
Randomidget ~ Conf Town

Town

I doubt there are 4 scum left alive.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm only really willing to lynch TWIE or SB at this point.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

Gah, I suck at getting my thoughts across.

[Espsyoncheage]

Part 2 VCA

WE have AP as prob town and us as town.

Bacon and Espy open up having a show about not liking each other. Bacon's tunnelling on Espy, yet Espy never votes Bacon back in all of day 1. This is odd behavior. Usually in egofests, both players vote each other. 1.21, rather than Espy voting the Bacon and Egg wagon that has two votes, Espy is voting with Bacon and Egg. That's pinging me, making their whole fight look faked. 1.24 scum are split on the major wagons (assuming that Espy is scum). This is consistent with a team that doesn't care which of TWIE or Ricastle is flipped.

Then, Espy finally starts to vote Bacon when the Ricastle wagon looks like it would boil over. Random and Espy both peel off to vote Bacon. This looks like Wax attempting to dodge my VCA but I'm smarter than that. The vote pattern doesn't make sense with what's going on in the environment at all.

The day 3 wagon doesn't really tell us much about the Tridra's positioning. If Oversoul is lynched, we find out a lot there. Oversoul was also missing the lot of day 4.

HH and TWIE are confirmed Pinks, so that means that we are at Espy/Random/Oversoul. If two tridras are left, only one town is in there.

Random being Tridra suggests that he was the hydrate. A town result with a missing hydrate and the possibility of a scum buddy and ZZZX being the most plausible receipient of the cop result, suggests that Espyonage is lying. Furthermore, the fact that Espy calls Fresh a paranoid cop, suggests that they know the result is wrong. I'm just wondering at this point whether it's a stupid gambit to make Random look like scum when he isn't.

~Titus

Lol I never voted Bacon day 1. Okay...

[Espsyoncheage]

Vote count 1.25

Voting:

Sonic boom

: oversoul, seiko x naiomi

Seiko x naomi

: Rune,

ricastle:

bacon and egg, homuletic homunculi, Angry frat BROS, MarioManiac4,

Randomidget:

Cait sith, singersigner

TheWayItEnds:

zzzx, Generic, ricastle, Sonic boom,

Espsyoncheage:

p2,

bacon and egg:

Espsyoncheage, randomidget,

Not Voting:

thewayitends,

Hydration:

Ricastle

: ricastle, Rune

singersigner

: randomidget, Sonic Boom, Espysoncheage, Ricastle

Rune:

oversoul, singersigner,

Seiko x naomi

: seiko x naomi, Generic, bacon and egg, angry frat BROS, Cait Sith

p2:

homuletic homunculi,

zzzx:

zzzx[/align][/area]

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch
deadline is june 29 at 10:36 cst thats in (expired on 2015-06-29 10:36:00)

Singer is V/LA until friday
Generic is V/LA until monday

Never voted for Bacon day 1, Espy? Really?

~Titus

No you were saying that I wasn't voting Bacon, when I have, and I did multiple times over the course of this game.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm here now.

VOTE: HH

I'm working on putting up the VCA. I want HH or TWIE lynched as I'm confident enough in them in being scum based on VCA. The Tridras are a bit more complicated. I'm thinking Espeonage there based on play today but I'll have to double check the VCA to make sure that's supported as the VCA needs to be done twice, looking for each alignment. He throws out that random is conftown.

I'll start with the Pink's first because that VCA is easier. Each team's VCA will be its own post for ease of understanding.

~Titus

Ah, so my VCA wasn't crumpets nor randomly generated numbers at all if we both drew the same conclusions for the two most likely pink scum. *smug face*
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

I also think that it's currently 5:1:1, so I'd prefer to lynch my top pink scum read: TWIE.
HH comes close second.

[Espsyoncheage]

Mostly done reading the Espsy ISO, been looking at HH. Titus, what you said about Espsy are pretty much my exact grievances with them. They are following Bacon onto Ricastle and kind of alternate between voting Bacon for policy and voting with Bacon on the lynch they are upset at him for strongarming? Its weird and maybe some of it could be hydra dissonance, I didn't do a very thorough job of separating them out. Still I agree with Psyche's point about their Bacon push which is that its odd that a 3-headed hydra is just purely tunneling Wisdom instead of being more sporadic. Overall they feel like T-bone is doing all the heavy lifting and wgeurts shows up and dumps conspiracy theories on the thread which he then gets shamed for in the PT? Seriously what is up with that hydra.

If I had to guess the most probable Bacon-buddy in the game I'd say its HH or Espsy. OS seems unlikely for Wisdom defending his lurking and TWIE...well I don't know. The whole thing with Bacon is hard to read into. I guess they had to pretend that they were working with someone in order for the claim to work. If Bacon DID hydrate their buddy overnight, then it seems unlikely they would potentially bus that buddy or tie themselves to them once they flip mafia PR. Still this whole thing could have been orchestrated if scum have daychat which...buh. I'd probably say TWIE is -probably- not Tri.

To that first part re: ricastle. I was scum reading him long before Wisdom was so you got the who was following whom backwards. Early on wgurts kept changing our vote away from him and I kept putting it back. Also Mara kept missing votes early in the day phase and I'll pull the quotes to prove it when I'm not mobile. For all intensive purposes I was the first vote on the wagon until I got fed up with Wisdoms posting later in the day.

Secondly your observation about wgurts and I is spot on. Hooray. It's hard for this hydra to be consistently sporadic when it is mostly me until wgurts pukes a few posts in the thread (wwhich I do shame him for sometimes lol)

[Espsyoncheage]

NO NO NO NO. You made the post, you own up to it. You typed it without thinking it because THAT is the mislynch you want to set up today. You're thinking about framing us as tridras because you are pink scum.

Look at that HH! No VCA needed!

Espsy, why does SB need to be pink sun to try and 'frame' you as tri? If they are just lying why can't they be tri?

Because nothing the thread suggests I am scum with Bacon and to think that comes with a severe disconnect with the reality of this game. I think it makes them likely pink because they would be hunting the tridra and have that on their minds on principle. It's a slip up because they are trying to shoehorn scum teams that don't make sense in the context of this game. It's why they keep insisting HH is scum ko matter what. It's why when I called Metal out on this fallacy he responded by saying I'm scum no matter what. The reads look so fake to me. The lack of critical thinking suddenly by that slot is appalling. Titus who seemed to be making progress in her play from typical has suddenly regressed to "VCA and nothing else". They have messed up this day phase their play has completely changed and not in a proton way.

[Espsyoncheage]

Does it not bother anyone that Titus has suddenly changed her approach from very diplomatic and group think by reverting to the meta everyone tends to expect and call her out for? All of a sudden she changes her attitude to high and mighty about her abilities and ignoring everyone else's input because as scum they CAN'T give into anyone's input because that would mean getting a lynch that is bad for them. It's no accident their top scumreads are of players unlikely to follow them on a lynch. Even though Titus admitted you AP don't look the greatest in VCA she excuses you anyway based on play, something they don't do for anyone else. It's politics they NEED you to be with them. It's why they aren't fighting me as hard because they want HH and TWIE lynched first and may also need my vote. In part because they legit believe one of them is scum and eventually want me as their LyLo lynch. I think SB scum makes so much fucking sense right now. I think their actions this day phase make it obvious to their endgame plans.

[Espsyoncheage]

Chance of being the league of pink:

1. Sonic Boom (metal sonic+Titus) 10
2. randomidget 12
3. AngryPidgeon 7
4. Bacon and eggs (wisdom+gif) 10
5. Homiletic Homunculi (Cheetory +Cephrir) 14
6. zzzx 8
7. TheWayItEnds 16
8. Oversoul 10
9. Psyche 9

Chance of flipping the other scum faction:

1. Sonic Boom (metal sonic+Titus) 14
2. randomidget 12
3. AngryPidgeon 13
4. Bacon and eggs (wisdom+gif) 14
5. Homiletic Homunculi (Cheetory +Cephrir) 14
6. zzzx 12
7. TheWayItEnds 14
8. Oversoul 10
9. Psyche 13

Most recent one, I'll explain how I got these numbers later. Higher numbers means higher likelyhood of them flipping scum. Bottom one is less accurate with no flips of that faction.

Here it is titus, this is where I was doing VCA.
Now, how I got those numbers is something only me and my other heads know. However I have done it, and I did reach the same conclusions.

[Espsyoncheage]

So titus, I drew the conclusion on HH and TWIE well before you had.
Will you wagon TWIE with us?

[Espsyoncheage]

Don't worry Titus I also dismiss your VCA as crap just like you dismiss wgurts.

[Espsyoncheage]

I mean you're dismissing his work despite the fact that he has been doing it for longer, came to his conclusions FIRST, and when you come to same conclusions with yours, dismiss his as fake. That's an agenda if I've ever saw one.

[Espsyoncheage]

So it's pure coincidence that since wgurts didn't show his work adequately that he comes up with the same conclusions that Titus does later? He's not doing real VCA yet he is able to accurately predict what the results of Titus' real VCA will be a week or so later?

[Espsyoncheage]

On phone so more in a bit. I don't see myself voting Titus today probably. I have had paranoia about them throughout the game, but some parts of them look purely town and often enough that they are pretty much last on my list of people to lynch. Like I said, I could see them on either scum team but they read town pretty hard.

Pedit: well wgeurts didn't show any thought process on it. He literally just posted some arbitrary numbers with no connect and hasn't updated those thoughts now that we have flipped Tri. Titus did at least explain how she got from A to B.

I guess we're on an opposite spectrum. I felt fine about them for most of the game, but this radical shift in their play this day phase has to have you thinking no?

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm saying that she's being manipulative by dismissing wgurts VCA despite her own coming to the same conclusion. It's not like she posted hers a week ago and claiming that wgurts just copied her.

[Espsyoncheage]

You brought up UnCouth which reminds me off...

[quote=T-Bone in UnCouth]Just remember everyone is manipulating everything so when you try to present something as 100% factual truth all you are telling everyone is "hey don't look at this while I quietly manipulate it".
[/quote]

We had a whole discussion post game on how Titus can present herself better in mafia. And up until this day phase she seemed to have taken that discussion to heart but now in crunch time it gets thrown out the window?

I think SB is going "hey don't look at me while I quietly manipulate things". That's why we got the ridiculous assertion I could be scum with Wisdom, that's why we have this ridiculous dismissal of wgurts. That's why when challenged about scumteam composition they go "well Espy/HH you're just scum no matter what". They are trying to manipulate the playerlist into focusing on certain things that help them out. They need a 3p LyLo that contains my slot, hence why they quickly dropped us down to a 3rd scumread. And now Titus can hide behind VCA without any critical thinking. I have yet to see any critical thinking in light of TWIE vs. Bacon on why he is still scum. They had absolutely no critical thinking about the composition of the set-up until HH brought up that they were pushing 3-2-2. It's a great scare tactic as scum to try and push that there are more scum left than there actually are. There is just so much dismissing of critical thinking coming from that slot.

[Espsyoncheage]

I dunno maybe I'm a little hurt by the implication of being scum with Wisdom after everything that has happened, and I thought it was pretty obvious (to the point where HH agreed with me easy). I wouldn't make this an issue if they had just said 'you're pink obviously', so the scumteam with Wisdom thing was a red flag to me.

I know wgurts did the work (but obviously can't prove). He was working on vote counts through out the entire game (even though he wasn't doing much else). I don't put too much stock into VCA, especially when it lacks and supporting game relevant thoughts, so that is why I think Titus' use of VCA here and her dismissal of wgurts is manipulative and disingenuous.

[Espsyoncheage]

We've obviously had this discussion about VCA before and you know I think its useless by itself, because the gamestate is relevant to what votes are made and why they are made.

[Espsyoncheage]

Like what about the TWIE vs. Bacon thing yesterday that can't be explained by VCA? That's really important as to the alignment of TWIE. Was it scumtheatre between the two slots? Did TWIE actually get hydrated and lie because he's on the other scumteam? Did Wisdom hydrate his buddy and lie to buy himself one more mislynch on TWIE? (Is there something else I'm not thinking of?) The first one is probably unlikely because TWIE questioned Bacon on his hydration long before it became relevant. I am back and forth as to what this means for him and his alignment. To me that is way more relevant than how TWIE voted (or didn't vote) on Day 1.

[Espsyoncheage]

Right. The game state is included in my VCA. votes are the game state. Charisma doesn't matter.

Mafia to me is like emotional chess. Regardless of the reasons, facts are facts. The pawn still gets promoted to whatever is selected, regardless of the rationale behind the selection of the player.

The gamestate is only partly included in the vote count. The vote counts aren't at any consistent frequency, players may park their votes while arguing other things (which IS relevant to any VCA), and you can't account for things that happen in the game. It's one angle of the game, not the whole picture.

[Espsyoncheage]

It's like if you wanted to study an animal at the bottom of the ocean but the only variable you are studying is feet below sea level and not worrying about things like temperature or atmospheric pressure because those things are in flux and not cold, hard, and consistent.

[Espsyoncheage]

The sad part is that TWIE is probably our compromise vote at this point. I don't consider AP to be a possible Wisdom partner either, so his likelihood of being scum is cut in half for me. HH has been a bastion of sanity for me the last couple of day phases so I don't think it's them. wgurts insists Oversoul is town but my affinity for that is waning with Oversoul's lack of contribution, and I have an innocent on randomidget (who otherwise does nothing). I mean we have 7 players left in this game and only 5 are playing...UGH

[Espsyoncheage]

if i had voted generic while i felt he was the most likely player to be scum, youd complain that i sat on a vanity wagon for two entire game days

Pretty much that.

I should be comparing YOU to Wisdom with all the dismissing you have done. That is exactly what he did every time someone challenged him. We challenge your VCA, you dismiss the challenges. I appreciate that you are trying to discuss it now, but that has only come after massive backlash instead of organically from the beginning. It's the little things like that that can point out where a player's underlying motivations is. I think you're politicing me for my vote and will push up the Espy is scum rhetoric as soon as it suits you again.

[Espsyoncheage]

i mean it's not like you can argue my suspicion on him was insincere, it is fucking multiball

therefore i plainly only refrained from doing so because that lynch was obviously not possible

why do i have to explain this

Goddammit HH that is like, awareness of the gamestate! Can't have that. /sarcasm

[Espsyoncheage]

Clearly I haven't antagonized you enough lately. Uhhh...your shoes are ugly.

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't really think TWIE is scum. Which is kinda lame given that everyone else in this game seems to think it, and my reason for not is pretty much entirely gut + WIFOM around Yesterday.

I have my doubts because TWIE being scum is too fucking easy...

[Espsyoncheage]

why not lying pink scum?

i mean, twies only hope as pinkscum is to get massive towncred by fucking wisdom over

Reminds why it would have been nice if SB tested out if TWIE was actually hydrated or not...

[Espsyoncheage]

You are assuming that Wisdom was telling the truth? I think Wisdom was an Ascetic and the whole spiel about the neighborhood was bullshit. Regardless of TWIE being town/pink, I'd expect him to say that Wisdom was lying. Why the hell would he do anything else?

I'm not assuming Wisdom was telling the truth. For all we know he hydrated his partner who isn't TWIE, or hydrated a player who was already hydrated so as to not give it out. I know the neighborhood thing was bullshit. I'm saying if A)TWIE is his buddy, it was misdirection and scumtheatre for TWIE's benefit (Since Fresh outted his investigation, it's possible that Wisdom thought he was going down anyway?) B) TWIE is the other scum and lied to get Wisdom lynched (possible, but then TWIE needs some amazing foresight to do so) or C) Wisdom lied about who he gave it to (which I guess doesn't say anything about TWIE's alignment). That is what I'm looking at.

Because if I'd already been hydrated by wis then I wouldn't be notified that titus had hydrated me.

And they could trap me in a lie or something that proved I was scum instead of doing nothing with it.

I don't know how night hydration works having never been hydrated I thought that he could hydrate TWIE and if it failed we'd know TWIE was lying. Or what TWIE just said above.

[Espsyoncheage]

With my suspicions on the slot already if I was hydrated yesterday I would have tried to see if I could catch TWIE in a lie and since they've been on TWIE all game, I thought they would take the opportunity to do so as well.

[Espsyoncheage]

No, my win condition is to get you and TWIE dead and also the tridra scum dead.

One thing here is not like the "facts". Let's see if anyone else sees it.

[Espsyoncheage]

Shit i meant to grab the already stacked one.

because i really have to dodge titus's sick VCA obv.

I have to admit, sometimes you are an enjoyable poster.

[Espsyoncheage]

TWIE do you think Sonic is scum?

[Espsyoncheage]

Or anyone for that matter?

(and yes I need you to hold my hand through this, I'm not sure I'm ready for you)

[Espsyoncheage]

Talk with me AP?

I mean how can you look at this...

For me it's pretty easy

Clear yourself

Clear myself

Find one town in (OS/Randomidget/HH?) apparently your choice is randomidget

And lynch the scummiest of the remainder

If you think of it robotically like that, your brain will be safe.

Titus just wants her VCA to be proven right. I personally don't really care as long as scum finally shoots right for the last time in the game

"I don't want you thinking critically about anything."

And not be worried by it?

It's like...I've already accused them of implying this and now Sonic has explicitly said it.

[Espsyoncheage]

*shrug* I'm not worried about your critical thinking, the endgame you are trying to accomplish is clear to me.

[Espsyoncheage]

it's pretty clear to me too. What exactly is your problem with it? how is it scummy?

less than 100 words please

You can't have two of HH/TWIE/Me in your 3p LyLo, so you're setting against that now.

Man 18 words, I'm so gud at dis

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh ya

1 more task

write another post about why you think TWIE is town

What does TWIE's alignment has to do with yours? I've laid out what i think about him for open discussion so...

[Espsyoncheage]

I got a task for you though! In 10 words or less why are you scum?

[Espsyoncheage]

because you recruited me into your scumteam

Now we're gonna get modkilled you fool!