FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[Seiko x Naomi]

@seiko, doesn't 4 scum alive right now seem like an awful lot? I don't think it being lylo makes much sense. Explain, though?

NOPE, NOPE, NOPE, FUCKING NOPE.

2 mafia + a traitor isn't balanced against 3 PRs, even if they are all rather weak. on the other hand, i *could* see something like 2 goons + pr + traitor vs. 3 prs, and i think this is the only way it really makes sense tbh. it also makes the most sense based on the size of the setup (23p).

i think this is you attempting to set up a surprise LYLO

[Seiko x Naomi]

i will say that the behavior from both radja and hiplop so far do not give me any reason to question my initial scum team guess

and to everyone who is actually town, this *IS* LYLO, and you should not let anyone attempt to convince you otherwise

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm warning you all in advance, if i see people speculating that this isn't LYLO i'm parking my vote on hawk and calling it a day

i'm not risking anyone doing something dumb and allowing scum to quick hammer

[Seiko x Naomi]

hiplop's behavior at the end of yesterday is sketch as all hell, tbh

[Seiko x Naomi]

actually going so far as to say that i'm taking any vote outside of {hawk, hiplop, Radja} to be a scum claim for the time being to be a scum claim *until* i can actually do further research on this game

[Seiko x Naomi]

Hi mollie!

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie the common denominator on both those wagons I'm not townreading is hiplop.

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie can you make me see the light because from where I stand if you think hiplop is town we have a problem unless you think cerb/prohawk are a team and even then 1 meteorscum on the first two wagons seems really strange to me

[Seiko x Naomi]

Because being wrong doesn't make someone scum?

[Seiko x Naomi]

mebbe I am slow, but can you walk me through this just a teensy bit more

hiplop is attempting to push that there are 2 scum alive, when in reality there are almost certainly 3 scum alive, in the hope someone will vote hastily potentially allowing scum to quickhammer

unless you're talking about why there's 3 scum in the first place, in which case, in the first place, there is no way there would exist a main scum group of only 2 people in this game. but, given the traitor's role, it's practically guaranteed to get cross killed at some point. i can't think of any scenario where

traitor 2x amn-cop | redirector of some kind, ???
vs.
2x roleblock inventor, odd-night limited rolecop, goon

would be balanced; on the other hand, i *could* see something like

traitor 2x amn-cop | redirector of some kind, goon, goon
vs.
2x roleblock inventor, odd-night limited rolecop, goon

there is also that having only 2.5 scum on one of the scum teams is hilariously town sided to begin with

[Seiko x Naomi]

i have literally 0 idea why you're defending him so hard, btw, given he's done nothing town recently and you haven't explained why

[Seiko x Naomi]

pie:

it's cerb/radja

you're welcome

you think fresh would have faked that replace out?

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm not trying to lead you anywhere - i still haven't got over how god awful fresh's play was, but i don't have any idea whether he would have faked the replace out or not so i haven't been pushing his slot

[Seiko x Naomi]

one thing i'm wondering is why the fuck he would claim if he was actually town bulletproof and replacing out of the game

usually, if you claim out of frustration, you do so to get people to listen to you. which gets entirely fucked if you're replacing out of the game

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm also wondering if, how if one of the protective roles is scum, how it'd fit into the setup

i suppose given the fact the extra meteor scum is a traitor, and essentially doesn't count in terms of power for them, it would make enough sense for there to be 2 prs on the meteor team

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm worried af that it's {Cv666, hawk, hiplop} and they're setting up radja as the LYLO lynch

fortunately, i've got a lot of time today

[Seiko x Naomi]

how I feel about hippy is how I felt about mastina.

the thing with mastina is, she was really obviously town. the only reason i was even unsure on her was the "guilty" and i'm saying this as someone who *always* scum reads her when she's town

hiplop's stance on there potentially only being 2 scum has a fairly obvious scum motivation, though. can you explain in more detail why you think hiplop is town?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Seiko

Varsoon

Psychlone
The Antagonist

Bulbazack

My scum reads

Oh and prohawk

mmmmm

[Seiko x Naomi]

@The Antagonist and mollie: if we agree all of us are town, doesn't that guarantee hawk+hiplop scum?

we have hawk, hiplop, radja, Cv666, of which radja/Cv666 is a CC.

[Seiko x Naomi]

i be fairly sure on hawk/hiplop even outside of that, tbh

[Seiko x Naomi]

[9] Titus (Varsoon, Seiko x Naomi, Saint, hiplop, mastin2, TheIrishPope, Bulbazak, Jaqen Hghar, Titus)
[4] Psychlone (Aeris, CB, singersigner, The Antagonist)
[3] Seiko x Naomi (Feysal, Flubbernugget, Psychlone)
[2] Jaqen Hghar (ZZZX, Fresh)
[1] Bulbazak (Kaboose)
[1] Flubbernugget (ProHawk)
[1] Varsoon (free stool sample)

[2] Not Voting (Scorpious, Frogging Mollie)

[7] Titus (Seiko x Naomi, Saint, hiplop, mastin2, TheIrishPope, Bulbazak, singersigner)
[4] Seiko x Naomi (Feysal, Flubbernugget, Titus, Varsoon)
[3] Psychlone (Aeris, CB, The Antagonist)
[2] Jaqen Hghar (ZZZX, Fresh)
[1] Bulbazak (Kaboose)
[1] Flubbernugget (ProHawk)
[1] Fresh (Psychlone)
[1] The Antagonist (Jaqen Hghar)
[1] Varsoon (free stool sample)

[2] Not Voting (Scorpious, Frogging Mollie)

[12] Titus (Seiko x Naomi, Saint, hiplop, mastin2, TheIrishPope, Bulbazak, singersigner, pirate mollie, The Antagonist, Prohawk, Varsoon, Kaboose)
[6] Seiko x Naomi (Feysal, Flubbernugget, Titus, Fresh, Scorpious, Jaqen Hghar)
[2] Psychlone (Aeris, CB)
[1] Fresh (Psychlone)
[1] Jaqen Hghar (ZZZX)
[1] mastin2 (free stool sample)

WHERE the hell is meteor scum in all of this?

in hindsight, given the psychlone wagon was never really a thing, i don't like hawk's play D1 regardless of radja's alignment. he hardly committed to any kind of stance on *either* of me or Titus, which fits with a scum-sitting back and letting the clusterfuck happen mentality.

[Seiko x Naomi]

fresh's play looks more town than psychlone's. the best point i can think of for psychlone being town is GIF's play and the way he claimed. my thoughts on Nacho's play are about the same as they initially were D2. fresh's play was incredibly dumb, but i could see it coming from town.

Cv666's looks a lot more town than radja's for what i hope should be obvious reasons.

i don't think d6 makes sense with both of {mastina, hawk} as town. if this is true and radja is scum, we'd be looking at radja + hiplop + 1 of {Cv666, Antagonist, mollie}, who, regardless of configuration, for whatever reason did not make any attempt to save radja until 24 hours before the deadline and who decided to bus radja when mastina was at 4 votes near the start of the day for no discernible reason - this is more so the case when at that point it would have been essentially a free chain lynch

if this is true and radja is town, then this would be the worst town game i've played in over a year. which hey, i guess would be par for the course for this game, but i cannot see myself being wrong on 2 of {Cv666, Antagonist, mollie} here especially given what i've seen today.

vote: hawk

[Seiko x Naomi]

you, hiplop, radja

and no, i don't, and i'm fairly sure i've been bringing this up for a while now

[Seiko x Naomi]

seiko but then you don't make sense? You're townreading* all 3 of those things?

we have hawk, hiplop, radja, Cv666, of which radja/Cv666 is a CC.

Cv666's looks a lot more town than radja's for what i hope should be obvious reasons.

if this is true and radja is town, then this would be the worst town game i've played in over a year.

you, hiplop, radja

[Seiko x Naomi]

you're attempting to twist "don't want into lynch" into "town reading" when this is explicitly not the case - i have unshakeable town reads on Antagonist and mollie, and since there's likely only one scum in the protective roles, this guarantees you/hawk scum via POE.

if you're town and pushing this, then your theory game is not good

p-edit: yes

[Seiko x Naomi]

also, fwiw, i could very easily see this as you attempting to link me/radja so that you can bus radja today and try to lynch me afterward

[Seiko x Naomi]

To me I'm struggling with the dillemma of pro vs radja. I don;t think theyre scum together but to me i;m leaning radja because of the claim.

why not?

[Seiko x Naomi]

yeah?

i don't see what you're getting at

[Seiko x Naomi]

i just now realized that, if only one protective role is scum, mastina/hawk being town/town necessitates {radja, hiplop, Antagonist} team (unless, again, my reads are shit and 2 of {Cv666, Antagonist, mollie} are scum)

i don't think this is the case given The Antagonist's stance on radja the past 2 days. i will step back tomorrow evening and evaluate the possibility of this as closely as possible, but i don't see any gamestate where hawk is town here.

[Seiko x Naomi]

also todo: check hawk/radja interactions (and interactions with the protective roles in general) in more depth

[Seiko x Naomi]

Hiplop/ Prohawk/ Mollie

I really don't get why Mollie is alive.

oh bullshit

the exact same argument applies to your slot. both GIF and mollie claimed on the same game day iirc (d2). and if one of you is scum, there is a *very* compelling reason neither of you would die; killing one would practically confirm the other as scum unless people started buying into Cv666-scum

there is also that leaving all the protective roles alive allows for "why is x still alive" paranoia, which is conveniently what you're pushing here

[Seiko x Naomi]

yep so i'm just waiting for pie to take her fist out of her ass and vote radja

i saw this and finally got off my ass to look at hawk/radja interactions.

my conclusion?

vote: Radja

let's watch as, magically, no quickhammer happens

[Seiko x Naomi]

FTR: hawk basically ignored psychlone all game, psychlone basically ignored hawk except for 2 posts 2941/3444, neither of which had any real push backing it up and which read more like soft distancing than anything.

[Seiko x Naomi]

^well that confirms radja as scum unless people think the team is {Antagonist, mollie, me}.

soooooo

[Seiko x Naomi]

i am mostly just glad i'm not complete shit at reading Nacho's scum game even in multiball even though i'm still bad at reading GIF :<

[Seiko x Naomi]

hawk, hiplop, and you (EVERYONE WHO ISN'T ON THE WAGON) have all posted without hammering. if radja was town and there were any less than 3 scum on the wagon (ALL OF US), he would be hammered.

hence he's confirmed scum unless people think the team is {Antagonist, mollie, me}

read the fucking game

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm not even fucking scum reading you you halfwit

[Seiko x Naomi]

seriously, that is the most godawful logic i've ever seen. what you're saying is entirely incorrect. everyone has fucking posted without hammering, not just you.

[Seiko x Naomi]

CERBERUS

GET IN HERE

[Seiko x Naomi]

pedit: And sure, I know it's more than just me who has posted without hammering, but your post was, in and of itself, directly referring to my post. There's implications there. That's really all I'm saying.

no, it wasn't; it was referring to everyone as a whole not hammering

[Seiko x Naomi]

There could be two scum left, that's actually the expectation I have, but I'm generally playing as though there are 3, for safety's sake. If there's only two scum, there are other possible scum team permutations.

thinking "there might be only two scum" doesn't justify just leaving a vote sitting out there WHEN IT COULD JUST AS EASILY BE LYLO

[Seiko x Naomi]

like, here's the reality of the situation

assuming 3 scum, either radja is scum or all of {Antagonist, mollie, me} are

even discounting the fact i know i'm not scum, it's fucking dumb to just leave a vote sitting out there for no reason

if you have suspicions this is the scum team, actually sit down and attempt to discuss it

but don't just fucking vote because "i've wanted to vote you for a while now" while ignoring me telling you what you said is entirely incorrect

[Seiko x Naomi]

your setup-dar is disgustingly awful if you think 2 scum is more likely than 3

regardless, there is literally no reason to not play it safe

[Seiko x Naomi]

like if this is lost due to your vote, you will not hear the end of it ad i will hold this game to you forever

I'm blacklisting him if he's town and continues being a complete moron about this.

I hardly ever blacklist based entirely on bad play without regard to attitude. This is a scenario where it would be justified.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Like I'm saying this AFTER I played D1 the way I did.

That is legitimately how disgustingly awful this is.

[Seiko x Naomi]

You: "radja not being hammered only confirms him as scum if I'm scum, you're laying down false associatives."
Me: "no, everyone has posted without him being hammered, not just you."
You: "LOL ur lining up mislynches because ur applying the same thing to everyone now instead of just me"

Nowhere did I say scum necessarily aren't bussing Radja. All I'm saying is that, IF Radja is town, all 3 of us necessarily have to be scum, and this confirms Radja scum FMPOV.

You're pushing me based on assumptions YOU'RE making, and then when I'm telling you you're objectively wrong, both in logic and how you're reading my posts, you're ignoring it. This is why I take issue with the way you're playing here.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Yes, what you're pushing is actually one of the most dumbfucktarded arguments I've ever seen on this site, and you're being too stubborn to realize it.

There is, on the other hand, a solid body of work for hawk being scum here.

[Seiko x Naomi]

You're also ignoring that the theoretically sound play is to assume the worst case scenario. Rather than thinking "it might be LYLO, don't do anything rash", you're thinking "LOL there might be only 2 scum so i might as well just vote. DERP DERP".

What the fuck am I supposed to say to that?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I never said anything about bussing. My point is that if radja *is* scum, as you say, what you're saying is "widening the suspect pool", as it were for future mislynches. I also don't agree with the assumption that scum would always hammer here. I mean sure, if there are 3 scum left, hammering makes sense. But if there are 2? Why would they hammer here? Nobody is talking, the game is dead, town apathy scores a mislynch for the scum team.

Except it literally fucking isn't. THE "SUSPECT POOL" IS THE EXACT SAME AFTER THE RADJA LYNCH AS IT WAS BEFORE IT.

All I'm saying is that FMPOV Radja is confirmed scum. It doesn't further implicate anyone on (this is what I meant when I said scum could just as easily be bussing here) or off the wagon.

You aren't addressing the fact that somehow antagonists single vote was okay, but mine isn't. Seriously. What's the different, from MY point of view. As someone who is unaware of your alignment. why is one derp, and the other isn't.

THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT

Antagonist's vote was OK explicitly BECAUSE of how obvious it is hawk is scum here

Yours isn't because your reasoning is disgustingly ill reasoned and wrong and you're ignoring me pointing out why it's wrong; and you're ignoring the fact that there is literally 0 fucking reason to not plan around the worst-case scenario today. If there are only 2 scum, Radja isn't confscum, yes. But anyone who thinks it's only 2 scum doesn't have a good sense of balance and is wrong. It has to be 3 scum, so I don't care about the possibility of 2 scum

[Seiko x Naomi]

At the very least, unvote and we can talk more in-depth tomorrow (or whenever I'm able to make this game a priority again)

[Seiko x Naomi]

And then the vote change, 3 posts later, to radja? That was okay because Radja was SOOO obviously scum?

Well, yeah

Votes in between 2 people, at least 1 of whom is practically guaranteed scum, are OK in LYLO. What is not OK is you who is probably town, voting someone who is in no way a consensus scum read because "lol I think they're just that scummy", and refusing to so much as consider the fact it might be LYLO before voting.

[Seiko x Naomi]

thank you.

i'm going to sleep; i'll be able to respond to any further posts tomorrow evening

[Seiko x Naomi]

hawk and Radja (who is now confscum) were both very likely scum from the get go.

It isn't remotely the same as what you're saying here.

Like, seriously, fucking unvote and we can have a more civilized conversation about this tomorrow when both of us have more time. Is that too much to ask? I literally would never not do this.

I certainly considered the fact that it might be lylo. I just found it more likely that, in a situation where there are 3 scum alive you are one of the three. That's all. In a situation where there are only two scum alove, and you're town, nothing to worry about.

In a situation where there are 3 scum alive, EITHER RADJA IS SCUM OR IT'S {ANTAGONIST, MOLLIE, ME}.

SO, there is no reason to not lynch him first unless you think this is the case, even if you have a scum read on me. There is no fucking reason to take that risk if you're planning around 3 scum.

^ Like, that is honestly just basic LYLO play and you're objectively wrong if you're town and can't follow the reasoning behind that.

Like let me spell this out

Assuming 3 scum, it. doesn't. fucking. matter. if. you. think. I'm. scum

In any scenario where I'm scum, Radja is NECESSARILY ALSO scum, UNLESS {Antagonist, mollie, me} is the scum team

And I have no idea what you're getting hung up on here.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Well yes, that's the point I was bringing up last night, and their response was basically "it's on someone I think is scum, so it's okay", which is simply nonsensical. You can't be upset at someone for playing in a non optimal fashion in lylo, while simultaneously exhibiting and supporting similar behavior from others.

it's not because "I thought" they were scum; there's a lot more to it than that.

the first difference is that basically everyone I think is likely town agreed both hawk and radja were scum. it was a consensus read. in that sense, both were exceedingly likely scum, and even if they *aren't*, they were bound to get voted by one of them anyway which would have meant we were stuck from the get go. there's no point in complaining about something that is inevitably going to happen

the second difference is that the cases on hawk/radja were entirely objective, i.e. not open to interpretation. radja is scum bc his claim makes no sense; hawk is scum bc D6 makes no sense with him/mastina as town/town. both of these arguments are based on simple logic. so yes, I think you heavily underestimate how obvious it actually was both of them are scum and thus safe votes; there was, and is, no compelling counter to either case and in the case of radja their play doesn't even look remotely town (I'd argue the same for hawk but, there are people calling it town play so /shrug)

if Antagonist had voted you, for instance, I would absolutely have had a problem with it because not only do I not think you're scum in the first place, you aren't a consensus read and there's no strong reason to lynch you today. the vote on hiplop was probably bad in hindsight, but at that point I was operating under the assumption you/mollie/radja being a CC would practically guarantee hawk as scum unless my view of the game was shit, so I didn't take issue with it

I hope this at least makes more sense and we can talk through it. I was really pissed off the other night (PM me in postgame if you want to know more about this).

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't...understand pie's reaction. at all.

I think Cv666 is town. I think there almost certainly are 3 scum. if she votes me, what happens?

I don't just sit there and die, especially when it'd lose the fucking game. I hope you can understand I'd get emotional over it.

[Seiko x Naomi]

part of why I think it has to be 3 scum, btw

Subject: Xenoblade Mafia (Game Over)

5. BROseidon, Egil, Mechonis Aligned Jailkeeper, survives and wins the game for the Mechonis!
14. RachMarie, Mumkhar, Mechonis Aligned 1-Shot Strongman, was lynched Day 3.
13. orcinus_theoriginal, Meyneth, Mechonis Aligned Godmother Neighbor, was killed Night 3.

1. ², Zanza, Bionis Aligned Odd-Night Ability Cop, was lynched Day 1.
9. GuyInFreezer, Lorithia, Bionis Aligned Doctor, was killed Night 5.
18. TiphaineDeath, Dickson, Bionis Aligned Encryptor, was lynched Day 6.

11. Mac, Melia, Colonist Aligned Vanilla, was killed Night 1.
16. TheReverend, Tyrea, Colonist Aligned Miller Tracker, was killed Night 1.
2. Aj The Epic, Riki, Colonist Aligned Vanilla, was lynched Day 2.
4. BeautyAndTheBeast, Alvis, Colonist Aligned Even-Night Cop, was killed Night 2.
7. Venmar, Juju, Colonist Aligned 2-Shot Hider, was killed Night 2.
6. Cabd, Reyn, Colonist Aligned Vanilla, was killed Night 2.
15. Sajin, Dunban, Colonist Aligned Vanilla, was killed Night 3.
20. Varsoon, Yumea, Colonist Aligned Vanilla, was lynched Day 4.
8. Ghostlin, Fiora, Colonist Aligned Neighbor, was killed Night 4.
10. Ser Arthur Dayne, Linada, Colonist Aligned Vanilla, was lynched Day 5.
19. spinachattack, Gadolt, Colonist Aligned Macho Bodyguard, was killed Night 5.
3. Andrius, Shulk, Colonist Aligned 3-Shot JOAT, was killed Night 6.
12. ProHawk, Vangarre, Colonist Aligned Vanilla, was lynched Day 7.
17. Nachomamma8, Kallian, Colonist Aligned Vanilla, was endgamed Day 7.

this was 21p with 3-3. I don't see any significant difference in power here and I don't think bork does more players (23p) with less scum (2.5-3).

[Seiko x Naomi]

tbf there was nothing you could have done that game; you were kind of fucked from the get go given the situation you replaced into. I was pretty impressed just by you replacing in and getting as far as you did before Nacho voted

[Seiko x Naomi]

no? the result was only 1 scum faction on the wagon, so Cv666 (off the wagon) could theoretically still be either faction.

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie I think that there are only 2 scum left!

[Seiko x Naomi]

pie thinks there are 3.

I say 2.

[Seiko x Naomi]

hi mollie!

I want to vote hawkie

[Seiko x Naomi]

ifalna, vt

[Seiko x Naomi]

i was at least right on one thing: this is, indeed the worst town game i've ever played. le fucking sigh.

i'm going to look at this from an interactions POV and see if i can come up with anything

[Seiko x Naomi]

So, Seiko is still scum yes? Spreading paranoia about 3 scum left etc.

i'm nominating you for paragon after this game. such scum hunting, very wow. (please ignore the fact that, duh, "THERE HAVE TO BE 3 SCUM LEFT" is a horrible angle for scum to push a mislynch given ... it'd be fucking obvious this isn't the case after they get said mislynch AND THE GAME IS STILL GOING)

like i don't even deny that my play sucked, but your read on me continues to be one of the most fucking dumb things i've ever seen in a game and you should be ashamed if you're town here. there are things i could see people reasonably scum reading me for in this game; this isn't one of them

the worst part is i know you're caught up in thinking you were somehow able to catch me as scum and you're going to wind up voting me for the scum win

but yes, continue to be a complete halfwit about this. (fwiw notsci thinks you're just scum, so consider that a compliment, i guess)

[Seiko x Naomi]

hawk/mollie
hawk/Cv666
hawk/hiplop
mollie/Cv666
mollie/hiplop
Cv666/hiplop

i am doing a full reset and finding time this week to dual-ISO all of these pairs in-depth. this will not happen now bc it's 4 am.

[Seiko x Naomi]

On a slightly unrelated note, why do you feel that insulting me makes me less likely to vote you and end the game in favor of scum, if you're town? Doesn't it make more sense to *not* try to provoke people into making bad decisions?

i don't, i just want to make sure you're aware of how incredibly dumb your read on me was after the game ends.

@ pie can i plz have a link to your last completed scumgame?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62686

[Seiko x Naomi]

cv666, what is your bussing meta?

i dunno if this'll affect anything but it is related to something i noticed

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm almost certainly voting hawk here

but, i've only been able to analyze one possible scum pair and i want to make sure i'm not missing something obvious here. i have a tiny voice in the back of my head saying hawk could be the LYLO lynch and while i don't think it's remotely likely, i just wanna make sure.

[Seiko x Naomi]

you were pretty aggressive in that game, very much like how you were with cerb here. I know you were pretty antagonistic in ori but I thought that it was due to special circumstances. it is just something that I am taking note. I read the whole thing.

ori is what i usually do when i have strong reads. although i wasn't at all aware of the external stuff while the game was going, and i wouldn't have remotely thought you were scum if i knew what was going on there.

i was pretty aggressive d3 of swag wars, which i did because most of it *was* genuine. notsci was pushing me as scum for awful reasons (<3 notsci), despite being right about me being scum, and flooding the thread with posts in a way i couldn't interact with at all. i can't say i wouldn't play like this re: cerb if i actually was scum here because it's a similar scenario, although i'd prob be more concerned with pushing her as scum and lynching her instead rather than being resigned to her voting me

[Seiko x Naomi]

I thought there were 3 scum because balance dictates so. I was obviously wrong but it was speculative anyhow.

I love how when you're scum you try to answer the least amount of questions possible.

if you thought 3 scum yesterday, and knew i had a town read on Cv666, why was my reaction to her voting me over the top?

HMM

[Seiko x Naomi]

Cv666, do you have a preferred pronoun? i swear i saw it listed as "she" at one point but i could be misremembering or just confused (sorry if i am ).

[Seiko x Naomi]

I've never rolled scum here, and only thrice elsewhere. Once I was a SK, so, nothing to show you there, and I don't think I bussed/suggested bussing in either of those games, but I would certainly do it if it seemed smart...but I don't find it to be especially great. The little bit of extra town cred you get from bussing gets you to end game...but it doesn't get you a win, in my opinion at least.

this makes me think that you/hawk is not a viable scum pair (since i don't expect you'd lie about this).

one down, 5 to go. just to be sure, can i get a link to your offsite games?

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie/hawk is absolutely impossible no matter how i try to look at it, although that was obvious enough just from the events of today.

mollie, how likely do you think a hawk/cv666 scum team is?

[Seiko x Naomi]

ftr I haven't fully caught up yet but last time I did I had CB, Kaboose, hawk, Varsoon as alternate scum reads

fuck my life

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie how confident are you that hiplop is town

[Seiko x Naomi]

I kinda get what you're saying

I was telling pie the other night I thought it was hawkie/cerbs because I saw that and something about trust and all of that

I haven't stopped thinking you're town since early game which is very reminiscent of that mini because here i am in lylo with someone I've had a strong townread on all game, someone blatantly scum and then two people who could go either way and that's why I'm interested in that because I'm worried if I leave it sit paranoia will eat me alive

[Seiko x Naomi]

Earlier when mastina was wagoned my head was very much in the mindset that she was town which is why I was trying to calm her down but at the same time when you have a flipped pr claim a guilty on someone you have to lynch them. I know you dont have to but imagine postgame if she was scum and we didnt and I saw you were adamantly defending her and you said you feel the same way about hiplop which is why im really paused re him

[Seiko x Naomi]

so you're claiming shinra scum

HAHA

[Seiko x Naomi]

ftr i buy that about 0% and am going to assume you're just meteor scum from here forward

if it turns out you *are* shinra, then fuck me?

i'll vote when i get back home and can double check some things. prob

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie, is the hiplop read something you think wouldn't be affected by it being multiball and him genuinely hunting the other team most of the game?

i get how these sorta reads work and that it can be impossible to explain sometimes but i really think you're on the wrong track there solely via POE

[Seiko x Naomi]

like the multiball scum game i had i got town read by basically the entire game including people like F-16 and mastina (both of whom i'd say are good at reading me (sidenote i'm fully aware people are gonna point out she was town reading me here and call me scum for bringing it up, idgaf)) because i was unkillable and so i could basically show off all the *scum hunting* i could do without fear of being cross killed

so i'm extremely, extremely hesitant to just accept that reasoning and i don't see Cv666's play as scummy

[Seiko x Naomi]

hey guys! I am not responding to thing until claimed scum prohawk is lynched!

i'm asking because i want your opinion on this for 3p LYLO after you die

[Seiko x Naomi]

something is missing that's kiiiiiiiiinda important if hawk actually wanted his last-shinra claim to be taken seriously

cv666, have an idea what it is?

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'd hazard a guess traitor knew the roles on their scum team (or was at least informed of one of them being a godfather) and so they could send out a false inno on them

that would perfectly explain why there were only 2.5 meteor, tbh

[Seiko x Naomi]

this is pie and i'm like 99% voting hawk today

i'm probably more careful in most in LYLO, that's all.

[Seiko x Naomi]

vote: hawk

[Seiko x Naomi]

uhhhhh

[Seiko x Naomi]

were you scum

[Seiko x Naomi]

. . .

:/

[Seiko x Naomi]

gdi i considered the possibility of that but there were too many fucking things about this game i couldn't reconcile and i thought your interactions looked like you-scum buddying up to mollie-town.

A;SELKJF;GAKGLJKJGFJSAD;KLFAJFG;LKFD

[Seiko x Naomi]

how the fuck does 4-2.5-16 work in this setup unless the other team is like unkillable? tbh i don't quite believe this.