Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!

[Natural Aristocracy]

Oh, the point of this game isn't to figure out who is actually playing which account? You're saying trying to do that renders the whole thing pointless? Well, damn.
There goes my whole plan.

I think Great Value is a Great Vote.
VOTE: Great Value
That entry post and paragraph was far too strong-arming. "Look at me! I'm the guy with everyone's best interests at heart! I will make an antagonist out of this Shiba Anime-name guy!"
Eh. It gets out of RVS/RQS/PB&J, so I am down with this course of action.

I think Great Value should address YouAreDeadtoMe.
Also, I thought secret Alt mafia was finally a chance to choose a name that isn't obnoxious. It seems not many took that opportunity.

P-EDIT:
It's also interesting that Dimitri is firing off with such vitriol at Shiba yet is quick to vote YouAreDeadtoMe and townread Great Value.
I'd hedge my bets that scum is most definitely in Great Value or Dimitri.
Despite my misgivings against Great Value, I do think that Dimitri is the winning ticket this time.
VOTE: Dimitri

[Natural Aristocracy]

Shiba:

Correct me if I am wrong, but when someone declares your approach brainless, that's a bit insulting, yeah? Surely, you thought about how you'd tackle the game. Hm. It's certainly acceptable, but it's a bit too much swinging-right-out-the-gate and is coupled with no vote, an awkward enough entry post of their own, etc.
I can understand the vote. I was voting there before my P-EDIT. It feels like a typical early game vote to me. It's not amazing, but I don't think it's worth half the flak he's getting for it.

YouAreDeadtoMe:

I think it's a fair assessment.

Great Value:

Not all of us have the hubris to pull a name from a fitting quote while simultaneously representing that allegory with an avatar. I am glad that your avatar is animated, though. Cute stuff.
Feel free to comment on my posts any time. You don't need permission, hahaha. Let the word be known and all that jazz.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Eh, I'd say that insistence on a shortage of articulation as a scum (or anti-town) quality is newbtown.
Generally thinking that players should (at least be able to) explain themselves is fair.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Of course he's new. Only new people care about anime.

[Natural Aristocracy]

You can play hard to get with me, YouAreDeadtoMe-chan~<3

Gwen:

What sort of insults get you most salty? Are you baiting the newb thing? Thoughts on Dimitri? Should I read Moon Knight or Spider Gwen or Superior Foes? Do you read comics? What's your take on this game?

[Natural Aristocracy]

I don't understand the scum reads on Gumby.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Try again, not-so-slim Shady.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Gwen:

Why go with the Dipsy vote rather than join the 3-person Dimitri wagon?

[Natural Aristocracy]

YouAreDeadtoMe:

What are you hoping to get out of your lingering vote on Great Value?

[Natural Aristocracy]

Gwen:

That's fair. I am interested in you going a bit more in-depth with where Dipsy is only going with surface reactions rather than intent. I can see where you're coming from in his ISO, but I'd like you to be a bit more specific rather than making a sweeping statement. Of course, I want to see how Dipsy responds, too. Not enough that I'd lend my vote in that direction, though.

YouAreDeadtoMe:

I think that is obvious. He has responded to you, though. Are you planning on bringing more to the table or doing anything to forward your case? I think it is fine to keep a vote hanging on your scum read, but that vote isn't doing anything unless your play is backing it through. Show us what you're seeing. I'm not sold on Great Value as scum. I'm more confident in my Dimitri read. If you've got something that is damning enough, lead away. If not, you're coasting/sitting on your hands.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I just wish I had the conviction you do, is all. Makes me curious if you're seeing something you haven't shared (you keep alluding to this, I don't think you ever dropped the bomb on it) or if you're just playing it up.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Thanks, SpiderGwen. I definitely see what you mean. I was not a huge fan of Dipsy's entrance, myself, as it seemed to sling a bit of mud but not really achieve anything. It felt ephemeral and weightless. I suppose you're more on the money with actual criticism, there.

Do you think Dipsy's off-the-cuff approach and pushing could come from a town slot?
About how long do you want to interact with other players before going with a lynch for the first day?
If you could choose any single wagon to fold into yours on Dipsy, which would you choose and why?


I like that you are pulling this much from the few posts that Dipsy has. I wonder how Dipsy will respond--I was originally curious if your retaliation for him was solely coming from a place of OMGUS frustration and confirmation bias. It seems like you're extrapolating meaningful connections from his posts rather than just conjuring points out of thin air, so that's good.

[Natural Aristocracy]

You're not wrong on me being town.
But I do have to make sure I'm an attractive target to lynch. Y'know, I want to stick around and all that. :3

[Natural Aristocracy]

If I posted in a concise way with direct language, would that tickle your pickle?

[Natural Aristocracy]

I mean, it's okay to be jealous of me, YouAreDeadToMe.
I'll still like you.

What makes me more worthwhile a vote than your dedicated scum-read? If it's just my rhetoric, you sure are a punk.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Well, that escalated quickly. Now I'm the leading wagon. Hoh boy.
I'm glad the people scum-reading me can't articulate much more than "Oh he is confident there is scum in two people!" and "Seems slimy!"
There's not much I can address there.

Soothsayer:

It's cool that you've got links, but I don't see how you're coming to your conclusions most of the time. The behavior that you're seeing as 'town' behavior is present in your non-town reads and I'd even fight you on reads like megafan and Dipsy. What's especially bothersome is how you've coded some behavior as 'scum' behavior and other behavior as 'town' behavior, but you don't really speak at all on artificiality. I get the feeling you're acting in absolutes rather than considering intent/play on a deeper level. Despite your fancy reads list, it doesn't come off as much beyond IIoA in a lot of places.
I also don't see what you mean to do with your vote besides get a response from me.

In short, give me something to work with.

[Natural Aristocracy]

While it makes me happy that you reminded me of my favorite part of early Heroes, I am bothered that you also make use of Doctor Who's rubbish. I'm trying to find a common link between your categories, besides weak wordplay/references, but it seems like bad taste is the only one I'm coming up with.

You can keep voting me if you think that insult was slammin' enough for your jams.

[Natural Aristocracy]

The primary issue with how people are going about pushing me is that there's no real response for me other than to ask people for more information.
If I post in a way that's appeasing those people, that's artificial and contrary to how I've been approaching this game anyway.
No one's laid out and said why anything I have posted = scum, either. They've correlated my style to scumminess and have said certain reads and interactions of mine seem scummy, but I never get a

why

, which is really frustrating to deal with.

I'm making this post full well knowing that doing so increases my chances of being wagoned, as most people will see it as a series of wall posts and complaining, but;
This is my only way to address my wagon.

Ask me questions. Explain yourselves. Don't be such peasants.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Soothsayer:

I've actually gotten a much better handle on Gwen and how they approach the game thanks to my interaction there. As for my tidbits with Dead, I've gotten much less, but I am feeling a spot more confident in my capability to read that slot than before. If you can't come to the same conclusions from out interaction, I'm sorry. Don't substitute your fiction for what actually happened, though.

Given the question towards Gwen that you called out--the purpose of that question was to gauge how much her (gonna just use her since the character is female) votes were intended for pressure vs lynching and how much I could understand her vote to be an indicator of her passion on the read. As it stands, the answer she's given me makes it fairly clear that early votes are not entirely meant to be absolute pushes, but that Gwen prefers to use her vote to suss out responses and info before going all-in.

As for my comments on being intentionally suspect, I'm glad everyone is reading that as scummy instead of possibly town-oriented. It has helped me gauge how you respond to gambits, but also your general play ethos that you'll be putting forth in this game. That was bait. It was always intended as bait. It has worked well to establish what sort of thing people respond to. If my posting that bait means I get lynched, then at least my flip will help the rest of town gauge other players given their response to it.

I apologize for not being a stand-out guy. I'll try to appeal to your sensibilities a bit more in the future. (This is sarcasm and a lie. I do not give a shit if you think I'm not genuinely trying to gauge someone's alignment. I have confidence in what I am doing. If you're town, you should, too. If you're not, this is a good front you're putting up as many of the players in this game have similar sensibilities to what you've put forth.)

I agree that Gumby and Concorde are strong town-reads. I do not know how to feel about Dead, given how awkward a lot of his posts were. I was hoping asking questions would get to the bottom of things but it has not. What bothers me a lot about Dead is that I started to call out his 'true' reasons for going in on Great Value, only to be voted for by him. It's... problematic, to say the least.

I think Dipsy is scummy. I do not think that Dipsy's townread on Gumby is a worthwhile indicator of alignment. I wonder what makes you think Dipsy's read there is town-revealing rather than null altogether. I am curious why your Dipsy analysis doesn't engage with the dialogue that Gwen has been putting on the table. Those are the big things there.

Your reads post is almost entirely this:
PLAYER NAME: Link to something notable in their ISO, you saying if that thing is 'scummy' or 'town'. Personal statement of feelings on that and/or a question that's lost in the reads list and may never be answered.

I've been enamored with cool linked-up reads lists in the past, because it is easy for them to look like they're doing work. People like Titus will spend hours doing fake VCA solely to look like they're putting in the effort. I'm trying to push past just being enamored with effort and instead hit the bricks on the content and ethos to see if it is really coming from a town slot or not. If I seem overly critical, it is because I have to be.

P-EDIT:

Soothsayer:

You don't need to look much further than my first post. I thought Great Value's entry to the game was strong-arming and trying to establish a town voice while striking at another player who was really only guilty of posting first. Dimitri's interaction there had me change my mind on the whole matter, and Great Value has generally stuck to their guns when it's come to pushing the same town-mentality. There's consistency there, which was what I was really hoping to apply pressure to figure out. Great Value's recent content isn't anything memorable for me, but I do feel like the slot should not be lynched today. There are simply better contenders, especially where info is concerned.

Shiba:

I'm pretty sure that I'm being really obvious, myself. Maybe I'm more aware of my ticks/play. I'm even intentionally doing some format things to distance myself from my main, but I don't think it's going to make a lick of difference for anyone with worth-a-shit experience. Also, please do give us who you'd be willing to vote and why. I'm interested in your process.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I just wish I had the conviction you do, is all. Makes me curious if you're seeing something you haven't shared (you keep alluding to this, I don't think you ever dropped the bomb on it) or if you're just playing it up.

Maybe I was wrong about NA being town. Hmm. Now this investment doesn't seem so good.

See here where I call out YouAreDeadtoMe and she immediately stumbles into hesitation regarding the read on me and eventually into voting me.
It's like poetry, it's almost Shakespearean.

Shiba:

Haha, do note that I call out scum putting in effort to seem town in that exact post.
And, yeah, I've done that ish as scum and as town as a tactic to garner townreads on my slot.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I do keep forgetting that this game has just started. Shorter deadline made me think we'd been here at least a few days.

Thanks for the response, Soothsayer. I don't really have much to say other than that it helps me see where you're coming from and all that.

Dipsy:

So... asking for someone to speak more on their read and be specific while saying that my added vote to pressure a response on you seems unnecessary/not in my interests is fence-sitting?

You're a let down.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Honestly, Dipsy, your vote on me here is something I expected when I started giving your slot criticism. It's the perfect way to edge in a vote on a growing town wagon as scum.
I'd be willing to vote for you. Not going to now for a few ~reasons~, but know that you're on the list.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I agreed with the read but wanted to see more of Gwen's process.
I wanted to see your response but felt my vote was unnecessary in seeing your response.
I do not see how this is fence-sitting. There are no 'maybes' in that situation.
I did agree with Gwen's read on you. Hearing more on the read was not going to change my mind about that.
I did want to hear your response to that read/those points. Voting you was not something I was going to do in order to rile you into response.

You're picking up what I wrote and misappropriating it as "I am not sold on your read. I want to vote Dipsy but will wait until he responds" which is fence-sitty. That is not what I posted, though.

I don't know if you're doing this because you couldn't make heads or tails of what may be an unclear situation or if you're pushing this narrative to excuse voting for an easy wagon to push.

Regardless, try again.

[Natural Aristocracy]

You keep substituting my actual words for shit you're coming up with.
Your 247 rubs me all kinds of wrong, especially because
A) That's bullshit. Town can be frustrated at that, too.
B) I'm not saying it's unfair or that there's nothing to argue against either. I've called out the points made against me as weak and thin.
C) You're insisting I am scum despite the fact I am not.

Basically, you're wrong, annoyingly convinced you are right, willing to disregard what I post to enable you being wrong, and you're acting like a smug sack of conf-biased shit about it.

I'm frustrated with you. I don't understand why people are townreading you outside of Soothsayer, who is relating to a moment where they scumread me as the same point you were hitting and seeing parallels in that process.

I never said "I am not ready to commit" in terms of holding onto my vote, which is what you are implying and flat-out saying elsewhere. I was never going to lay a vote on you, even though I agreed with Gwen's assessment of your slot. Stop insisting on this.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Total aside;
Should we reveal our main in twilight post-flip?
Or should we save that for post-game?

[Natural Aristocracy]

Eh, not much I can do if you are going to justify being wrong as 'the way you see it'.
I understand that your perception is different, but the way you are pushing your perception frustrates me as it is contrary to the reality of the situation.
That's something I feel is anti-town, at the least.

[Natural Aristocracy]

For what it's worth, I'm feeling way better about the Dipsy slot now.
I think that our approaches are inevitably going to butt heads, but at least I understand where Dipsy is coming from now.

I really would like to hear more input from the people who have not been around. In particular, I don't quite know what to think of Qualiford, Megafan, Cellphone, Phantom, and Shady.
It especially bugs me that more than one of those folks is voting me.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I was also tempted to post like Wake.
Thanks for the update.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Apologies, just me.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'm surprised as far as the Gwen townread goes--it looked like a couple of other folks had their reservations about Gwen, especially after what she had to say about Dipsy.

I think we can agree that Gumby is off the table for today, but I wonder why you are unsure of him. Do you just think that his claim counteracts his play enough? If he had not claimed Miller, you would have a moderate scumread there, right?

I understand the slight scumread on Concorde, but I disagree with it. There were 10 minutes between those two posts and the first made it clear he was only commenting on the first 2 pages. I could see the following readslist coming from a quick skim of what was left. Regardless, I think Concorde's input isn't coming from scum, as it strikes me as showing himself rather than directing others. I don't see the scum intent, I guess?

Do you usually think inconsistency is a scum-tell?
Can you elaborate a little more on Megafan and Shady?
What do you think of those two both having little content/not even showing up in your reads there yet still voting me?
Can you comment a bit more on how you feel about player's votes and the wagons that have showed up so far today?

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'm curious what you think of your scumreads' votes and the central wagons of the day (Great Value, Dimitri, Me, etc)


dipsy you're doing that thing again wrt rolecop

[Natural Aristocracy]

Shiba

: Well, yeah, I am not asking for pre-flip associations, just your thoughts there. Obviously, if you weigh in a lot on your thoughts early, that gives you less wiggle-room as scum later. At least, as far as consistency goes, which you've established is part of what you consider to be town.

Dipsy

: I don't think that Shiba was trying to direct a rolecop as much as he was suggesting that roles will be able to sort out the miller claim as well as anything else. You've got a case of reading things without considering different context, I guess?

[Natural Aristocracy]

I still think Dimitri is scum. Why would I move my vote? I like it where it is. I'm waiting for Dimitri to return to the thread and do something.
I think the Qualiford wagon isn't great. I don't like the combination of names that are on it. I'm still not sure what to think of Qualiford, other than that they aren't a hard-ass.
Quailford wagon makes sense to me, but I don't think that Quailford's play is egregious enough to merit a lynch.
I'm actually interested in playing up the Shady/Concorde beef because I'm not a huge fan of Shady and I liked Concorde's reads and explanations. I'm interested in them butting heads.

[Natural Aristocracy]

As for the Gumby miller claim, I think that the nature of the claim itself is null. The awkward thing is the third-party specificity. We've got 16 players, so a third party would fit. I hope to the high heavens it isn't a mod-damned serial killer or I'll bully Quilford for tricking me into playing another multiball setup.

[Natural Aristocracy]

that's great i don't care as you are confirmed mafia

[Natural Aristocracy]

So here's a handful of things;
You don't have a guilty on me, this isn't a bastard game, I am town.
If you want to get a mislynch, you're going to have to try harder than being a jerk and playing boy-who-cried-scum.

[Natural Aristocracy]

VOTE: Shady

The last person I saw do a day-one 'guilty on town' gambit was scum.
Ayo.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Also, your play and pushes have been less than stellar. I don't get why you get to have such poor opinions and thoughts and it doesn't seem like anyone cares.
You really like being derisive and contrarian and muggy and mean and I don't like you get out.

[Natural Aristocracy]

lmao ok

This is a scum response, dawg.

[Natural Aristocracy]

No, I'm calling you out on your bullshit.
I've also got a guilty on you, so refute that.

[Natural Aristocracy]

(I'm lying. I don't have a guilty on you. I think claiming guilty Day 1 is the sort of stupid distraction that only scrubs and scum would make. Regardless, you deserve pressure for that.)

I think you're just scared that if you dropped a case everyone would dismantle your rubbish with ease.
It's easier for you to hide behind your dumb ruse.

[Natural Aristocracy]

If you're not faking, then there's only two possibilities;
This game is bastard or
You are lying.

Since I know I am town AND I know this game is not bastard, I know that you are lying.
I know this game isn't bastard because of

1. Game Name
   - Secret Alt Mafia 2
   
2. Flavor
   - None
   
3. Number of Players
   - 15
   
4. Your Experience
   - Secret Alt Mafia, Mafia in La-La Land, and many Minis
   
5. Current Modding Commitments
   - None
   
6. Reviewers
   - Faraday, chamber
   
7. Reviewers Agreed to FINAL version?
   (Y/N) - Y
   
8. Backup or Co-Mod
   - Equinox
   
9. Backup or Co-Mod's Experience
   - Mini 1665: Papers, Please Mafia, countless others
   
10. Backup or Co-Mod's Commitments
    - Newbie 1644: Come Meet the Mafia
    
11. Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? [Yes/No]
    - No

You're lying. I am curious as to why you are lying. That's what bothers me, really.

[Natural Aristocracy]

So, are you saying your 12 posts aren't enough to judge from?

[Natural Aristocracy]

Well, I guess I can mark Spider Gwen down as yet another player who thinks I'm 'fencesitting' because I can say more than one thing about something.

I don't like the Quailford wagon--the reasons why people are on it make sense from their PoV, but I don't like its composition and I'm not crazy about Quailford as scum on top of that.
It seems weird that Dimitri, Dipsy, and Shiba are all there given how much they've had differing thoughts earlier on. Gumby is probably the only one I wouldn't fault for being on that wagon, as Quailford has been lingering with a Gumby vote for awhile. I don't trust Dipsy's judgment at all and I think Dimitri has been swinging for the fences with really easy votes without putting in much else.

I don't think Quailford's posting has been amazing, to be honest. There's a sort of carefree and hands-off approach going on that's contrary to how a lot of us are tackling this game, so I can't really make heads or tails of it. Ultimately, I feel like there are far better candidates for lynching today and while Quailford isn't some shining bastion of town, dude isn't the scummiest by a longshot.

I should probably be supporting this wagon, because I think Soothsayer's comments on Quailford are pretty spot-on and because I'm likely going to be lynched if it doesn't go through, but, hey, fuck it, sticking to my guns here.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'm taking a big trip this whole weekend so my activity should dip compared to previous days.
Apologies. If you have questions for me, make them obvious with tags or bold. I, honestly, skim most walls on catchup before going back for a re-read when I have proper time.

I found myself agreeing with most of Phantom's catchup.
The Russian does need to die.
VOTE: Dimitri

NA hitme with your best reads.

Dimitri Davidoff - Scum. Had a bad, sheepy entry and has been a relative lurksack with bad votes all around.
Concorde - Town. I liked the catchup posts and how much Concorde has stood by their logic.
Shiba Tatsuya - Town. Could be snowing me with innocent play, but really seems to be addressing the game in stride and trying to make heads-and-tails of stuff. Players who post in this way fool me most often, so I am not very confident in this read.
You are dead to me - Scum. Had a bad leap to my wagon the second he came under fire. As far as I am aware, has not explained his pushes much at all despite feigning conviction.
Spider Gwen - Town. Could be fooling me but the effort looks genuine.
Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy - Town. I don't like Dipsy's approach but Dipsy does not feel scum to me.
Shady - Scum. Bad 'reaction test' to distance from a bad push. Really scummy in pushing in general. Doesn't care for understanding, is contrarian.
The Phantom of the Opera - Town. I like their posts so far. Lays out good points that are fresh rather than parroty.
Greatvalue - Null. Needs to produce more content.
Quailford LOL - Town. Content isn't great, and so this read is weak.
Gumby - Town. Miller claim and specificity hit me as either for-sure town or third party.
the_soothsayer - Town. Seems to actually try to be figuring this shit out.
Megafan1998 - Scum. Scum logic, scum play, don't see any redeeming qualities or worthwhile pushes.
CellPhone - Null. Needs to contribute more right the fuck now.

I do not have a ton of confidence in these reads. I am most confident in my reads on Dimitri, Shady, Gumby, and Dipsy.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Huh, I actually liked Shady's 474.
I'm also a fan of YouAreDeadtoMe's posts on this page, although I'm curious what her thoughts on Dimitri, Concorde, and Shady are.

[Natural Aristocracy]

It's too early for me to care for all dis shit
I ain't elaboratin' on shiiiiit.
Also, uh, cool guess Phantom?
Is it because I have too distinctive of a style and have done little to nothing to mask it? D:
We can talk in post, I suppose.

I don't feel like fucking scrapping with shady. Feels like a waste of energy.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'm actually totally disposable, so it's all G.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Well, I'm glad that Shady's case has literally no merits to it because he keeps coming to worthless conclusions thanks to his confbias.
Saying useless mudslingy-BS like "He kept that piss-weak vote on dimitri instead of moving it around is because he was too afraid to fake anything resembling real suspicion" is exactly representative of the mindset Shady has going into reading me. Rather than considering why I stuck to that wagon, or why I did not join other wagons, he comes to a conclusion that's removed from the reality of the game, not even truly scummy, but he pounds it in as scum-oriented anyway.

Think for a damn second, Shady. At this point, sadly, even that seems beyond you. Your frustration and incorrect assumptions amuse me, though.
Stay forever basic.

I'm not entirely sure why Gwen is voting me, either, but I'm sure it's for 'great' reasons, too.

[Natural Aristocracy]

VOTE: Dimitri

If your goal was to convince me that your play is wrong and stupid but town, Shady, you've succeeded there.

[Natural Aristocracy]

You get out what you put in.
Don't be such a louse.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Half of the playerlist is functionally AFK.
Try again, Shady. No amount of barking is going to change my alignment.

[Natural Aristocracy]

@Gwen: If I have to justify a scumread, then it's not worth it. It should be clear from the 26 pages we have so far. If I had any large new breakthrough case there, I'd throw it down.

@YouAreDeadtoMe: Show me where you explain the read in full.
Also, come up with more fiction to support your silly read on me, please.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I wonder why Soothsayer doesn't include me in their reads list.

[Natural Aristocracy]

@Shiba: What makes Concorde Scum/VI?
I actually trust the judgment of those on the wagon far more than those off of it.
In fact, many of the people off the wagon are scum-reading me for all kinds of really dumb reasons.
Which keys me in that they're not good at figuring stuff out.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Oh, well, then do you want me to make up a paragraph-form argument for his scumminess, in which I basically let rhetoric do the job of filling the content?
Because that's artificial as fuck, dawg.
I'm not writing college papers here.

Megafan's 'schtick' is anti-town in every way.
Megafan's push on me was weak and awkward.
Megafan's votes are typically made without a consistency that I can track and often seem to be riding on what's popular at the time.
Megafan, when pressured, offers very little response and/or ignores the pressure away.

That's the bulk of it. If you disagree, then I'd rather not spend upwards of an hour in his ISO finding all the posts that support my claims. I'm not going to polish of a novel every time someone asks me why I'm reading someone the way I am. Have some confidence.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I actually didn't get to post at all the other day. ;_;

You guys can lynch me if you want, I know I'm not helping much here.

[Natural Aristocracy]

VOTE: Dipsy
This is actually fine, too.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Damn, I got struck with another prod. I am not here enough. Hm.
GV's talking about shooting me, which is a good indicator that at least one of us sucks, probably both.
It's also indicative of my continued survival, which is dope, I guess. Scum's not going to off a guy they think they can leverage for a mislynch down the line.

I'm actually really struck by the two wagons right now.
I can't stand almost all of Shady and Megafan's posting. I think SpiderGwen's varies heavily for me.
I don't like Dipsy, I think Dipsy is scum, but I think this wagon is poop.
That said, I like the Phantom wagon a lot more but I'm not about a Phantom lynch.
But hey Concorde is voting Shady so
VOTE: Shady
Which will go nowhere, but, man, that dude is scummy.
I can't fascinate you rubes with a wall-post of a case, but I guess if you aren't seeing it, nothing I say will convince you otherwise anyway.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I dont get Opera scumreads period

I'm like super not into this game I'm sorry guys

Probably the most relate-able Megafan posts I've read.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Not a huge fan of Soothsayer's threats towards me and general disposition towards the game.
You want people to be invested, don't be a jerk. Provide interesting content. Stop posting walls.

@Gwen: I'm mostly conflicted over Shady's lackluster early play, coupled with his really bad gambit against me on top of how much vitriol goes into all his OMGUS. Shit's dead-ringer scum play for a few people I know on-site. I don't feel like anything Shady has done has been pro-town. Dude's been dragging this game through the muck.

Phantom's posts on the last page are hit-and-miss for me. I like where Phantom seems to be taking the game seriously and considering things, but I'm not a huge fan of the playful tone. Feels a bit forced? I don't know. This isn't something huge to comment on. I suppose my head says, "Yes, Phantom makes sense" but my gut says no. That's how that goes.

[Natural Aristocracy]

NAs posts is so awful. Dude needs to actually start contributing properly or replace the fuck out if he's town because he's not helping us get a read on him in the slightest and the Shady vote is bad on so many levels, especially given he has a scum read on Dipsy.

Earlier parts of this post are problematic for various reasons, but I really want to highlight this.
Insists we are awful,
Uses 'us' to align himself with the town,
Blames me for him not being able to read me,
Calls my Shady vote bad (does not say why, outside of the scum read on Dipsy, which I covered in my post).

There's no attempt to understand here. No attempts at engagement.
This is just mudflinging and being a jerk.

The call for me to replace out is a jerk move, too.
I'm not going to replace out because of your own shortcomings.
Grow up.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I've got 62 posts across 47 pages, buddy.
If you can't figure out my alignment from that, then why don't you start asking me questions and getting me involved instead of calling me awful and telling me to replace out?

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'm tired of all you guys with scum-reads on me but votes somewhere else.
Either lynch me and stop fencesitting over it, waiting for some other cuck to lead what you know to be a mislynch, or stop acting like a bunch of shits.

VOTE: Dipsy
Since you guys don't want to lynch Shady for reasons I can't fathom.
I love how I'm like, "Oh, yeah, we should contribute to a fun game and not be jerks" and shady's response is "FUCK OFF".

Greatvalue's recent reads post feels thin on content and really sheepy of the game's general opinion.
Like GV doesn't want to take a worth-a-damn stance on anything.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I kind of wish Titus had the eloquence to replace out, but then

secretly

replace back in with a super secret alt. I guess we can't all be winners.
Titus being Concorde does strengthen my townread there, too.
I'd much rather lynch Dipsy than Phantom.
I don't have much to say on what's going down as of late, to be honest.
I really liked Soothsayer's pressure on Phantom, but I also felt that Phantom's defense was fine enough.

i was not aware titus was this awful

Since you guys don't want to lynch Shady for reasons I can't fathom.
I love how I'm like, "Oh, yeah, we should contribute to a fun game and not be jerks" and shady's response is "FUCK OFF".

haha yes that's exactly why i did that, and not because you told obvious town to "stop posting walls" when yuo've spent today doing fuckall but your stupid sadsack act

the reaction to soothsayer complaining about your lack of content was hilariously over the top whining where you attack him but stop short of actually calling him scum (because then you'd be obviously full of shit). it's a completely nonsense-ass response to someone saying you should post more - and he's right given you're still hung up on shit that happened 20 pages ago and seemingly haven't incorporated new information in any way (because you're scum so hey whatever)

Oh? Because I'm in the median of posts in this game, actually.
I've produced enough content for some players to confidently read me. Some of these players may be scum simply playing this angle, but even then, these players and confidently say that I am town. Maybe you should start actually reading, which might include taking that stick out of your ass.

When someone you're jerking off as 'obvious town' pushes a shit soft-push on me and I call out their shit soft push, I know that it's your job to puff out your chest and defend your girlfriend of a townread here. It's cute, but you're also going about this with a pathetic, bullying approach. My post was directed to Soothsayer, who handled it without getting their panties in a bunch. It makes me curious why this bothers you so much.

But, hey, I'm scum, right?
Do your job and get me lynched if you're town.
Or just whine about me like you've been doing all game and hope someone else takes the bait for your golden mislynch, fuckboy.
What kind of icing do you like on your pies, Cakeboy? You wanna play a game of backgammon, you donut puncher?

I can take you to space if you want to be a cosmonaut over this, but I can never give you change for this three-dollar bill shit you're putting down.

[Natural Aristocracy]

lmao yeah NA dies tomorrow, what a turd of a post

I love seeing you engage with my posts, cakeboy.
Keep it classy.

@NA, Considered that but mod rules prohibit that. If I replaced out, I couldn't come back in immediately. If I inned to replace, the mod technically would have to put me in Dipsy's slot. If I came back to my spot, it would be pointless.

I suppose so, but it would be neat if there were a way for you to maintain your secrecy. I've pretty much blown who I am, but it's all G in the H.
I actually suspected a few other players of being you, to be honest.

Just going to say that you guys missed the point with Phantom. Will go over it when I have more time tomorrow, but he's definitely scum here. The only reason why I'm not casting my vote is because there's a few things I want to respond to and talk about before the day ends, and I don't trust one of you not to hammer.

What is

the

point with Phantom? I'd be really happy if you went over it as soon as possible.

post

people not on Opera/Dipsy need to move

Both are shit wagons. I will hammer if necessary.

Why are both shit wagons?
What's your hesitation on them?
I could conjure up ideas for either, but I'm not entirely sure why you're resistant to a lynch on one or the other.

[Natural Aristocracy]

nah I think he's too emotionally invested in his bullshit to be scum imo

i think it's largely performative bullshit that doesn't serve a real purpose and he's shown no sign of a legitimate thought process + his crybaby response to being called out by sooth doesnt make sense from a town perspective at all and looks more like scum resorting to histrionics in order to make ppl think he's being "genuine" or whatever the fuck. blowing up on someone who says you need to post more is just a completely disproportionate response for any sane player. like, to throw out this wimpy BS FoS on a guy because he called him out for something that's factually true? he's full of crap.

You're really bad at understand what people write, Cakeboy.
I understand that you have to feign a tough-guy attitude as what I can only hope is an adorable alt-gimmick because it'd be pathetic otherwise. You can chill with it. If even Megafan can cut down on his literal MetalSonic-entry-tier posting style, you can stop being such a cuck when it comes to discussing anything resembling an appeal to emotion.

Did my response really read as a blow up to you?
We can go over it again for you, since you seem awfully fixated on it;
1.) I called Sooth out on what came across as a weak and lazy push for me to produce content. In many ways, my response and subsequent posting makes up exactly the sort of content that Sooth may have wanted. Why are you butthurt about this?
2.) I also said that telling someone to replace out is a jerk move and largely contrary to the sense of community this site seeks to cultivate. Why does asking someone to be less callous (in a player-to-player manner) make you so anally annihilated?
Those two points were and are independent from each other.
Only you have been pushing that they are tied together.
Only you have been pushing a 'crybaby appeal to emotion performance' angle on this.
Only you are hung up on my posts and whine incessantly about them, occasionally vanity-wagoning me.

reiterating because i really want to drive this home - responding to someone saying "Dude needs to actually start contributing properly or replace the fuck out if he's town" by wailing about how bad he is for saying something like that makes no fucking sense for town to say. none. attempting to read a scum motivation into sooth suggesting he maybe needs to be replaced is total crap.

Nice use of rhetoric, there; 'wailing about how bad he is'. I called a dude a jerk in about two posts. I laid down what would be better terms of engagement for me. I explained what I found (game-wise) problematic with his weak push on me. I was hoping Soothsayer would respond with a bit of justification on those various points, but the most I got in return was 1161, which was largely Soothsayer standing by their stance. I saw that as a solid affirmation, actually. At the very least, it was far more consistent with the play I've grown comfortable with coming from that slot rather than the off-key push made on me. Never did I equate scum-motivation into the 'replace-out' thing. There is not a single point that I call Soothsayer scum for saying that; rather, I just call him a jerk. His mudflinging in the push on me was independent of the call to replace out, just as my response to the call to replace out was independent of me taking issue with his questionable push. People can be a jerk as any alignment. Surprise, Cakeboy.


Also, you're totally off-base with your call on my Dipsy engagement. Did you even read the game? Can I point you towards 251? Oh, are you gonna cry about it and try to get me lynched because you're transparently wrong, yet again? I'm sorry, Cakeboy. I didn't mean to come back into the game and flip your own worthless rhetoric back on you; I only wanted to loosen you up and give you that thick content you've been crooning for all game. I'm sorry you're not a fan of how much my posts bruise your chafing sensibilities, Cakeboy. I'm sorry. This isn't your pony show at all.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'll cuddle with you and give you after-care once the game is done, Shady.
I didn't expect the experience to fluster your buttocks so thoroughly.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Soothsayer, can you either link me to a post of yours or just lay out for me what you take issue with in regards to Opera's play?
I'm having a lot of trouble reading Opera.
Their posts slide through me and I don't pick anything up from them.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Thanks for the links. I do agree that the defense of playing an artificial-playstyle isn't much of a defense at all. Feels like a bit of a cop-out when put under pressure. I also noted the strangeness of Phantom insisting on my towniness, and I'm generally skeptical of people who do that. I suppose I'm used to being buddied in that way?

I actually take a bit of issue with Shady's votes on me, because his scum-read on me, while consistent, has been really awkward for me. Shady seems to take offense to the strangest things, and gets very flustered and over-the-top when parading for my lynch alone. He seems to either be very frank with not much to say OR he'll rationalize and walk through his process far more comprehensively with other scumreads/people he disagrees with; such as with Gumby in 694, Cellphone in 698, 1017 with Dipsy, and 1151 with Phantom. Maybe I'm feeling more of 'the edge' when it is directed my way? It just seems like when Shady decides to start putting out "You suck" posts my way and I respond in kind, he then explodes with a diarrhea of posts and a vote on me, typically when there are other wagons and I'm not really in the spotlight, usually to the effect of weak-sauce fake-cop gambits and tripping over himself to imagine scenarios where I am scum, bad at this game, crying, and need to die.

I agree that Gwen needs to get the fuck in here and explain herself.

I think I'd like to hear whatever Dipsy's replacement has to say.

I agree that I'd like more on why Titus is scum-reading Shady. I, personally, still think he's just breaking out Hiraki-tier pooter-peevery.

[Natural Aristocracy]

It sort of bothers me that some people can still say, "Oh, but Meta" in what is literally secret alt mafia.
The only player people should confidently be hitting meta notes on is Titus.
I understand that we probably all have distinct and identifiable playstyles which may reveal us, but, jeeze, meta-as-a-defense should not be something worth bringing up in this game.

That said, I find myself split between Soothsayer and Titus' points on Shady. I feel as though Shady's push on me could very easily just be a town pushing a scumread, but I feel like Shady's game overall has been very lacking and, as Titus points out, full of bulldogging/bluster. I guess that I realize that my play has been sub-par and even outright bad, which warrants investigation and scum-reads on me, but I also think that Shady's play runs thin between brief moments where I could see town motivation. Regardless, I'm still hesitant to call Shady scum, which may be a weakness of mine. I suppose I'd rather imagine someone as an unaware bag-of-dicks than an intentional bag-of-dicks.

I'm wary of GreatValue taking the Shady bait into a wagon on me. That sheep feels awkward as fuck. If the guy wants a lynch on Dipsy, why abandon the Dipsy wagon for Shady's vanity wagon on me? I know that GV has had a scumread on me for awhile, with some moments of hesitation. Why is it Shady's vote that makes GV confident in following up there?

I think the blatant sheeps of Soothsayer are also questionable-as-fuck, which is what makes me feel the most uneasy about Shady.

Hm.
Someone talk to me?

[Natural Aristocracy]

Hey, how do you know that I'm not just really perfectly replicating He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named's playstyle (and what I see to be his towngame) to a T?
Okay, I'm not that good.

I can understand you going over to Dipsy since your townreads were, but I wonder why you didn't just insist on staying on me as far as votes were concerned. Shady would've probably liked that and voted with you.

Why are you townreading Shady?
Why are you 'done with this'?

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'm excited to see you return to the thread, Shady. Your tears are delicious.

I'm voting Dipsy because Dipsy is scum; Dispy's activity dip is questionable (probably null) but what I take issue with is that Dipsy pushes and votes are all shit. Maybe it helps that I know that I am town? Furthermore, it seems as though we're coming down to two wagons (Dipsy or Phantom) and I like Dipsy for scum more than Phantom for scum. That's about it. I'm not going to lie or conjure more for this read, because that's the full extent of it. Take it or leave it, but being a total ninny like you have been has only been dragging the game down, Cakeboy.

[Natural Aristocracy]

1.

Spoiler: What lead from me thinking Dipsy was scum to thinking Dipsy was town

Dipsy's modus operandi is misrepresentation. I called him out on this a few times (243 and 251 highlight this), but I was unsure if this was intentional on Dipsy's part or something he was subconsciously doing because he's illiterate. Around 256 and 265, I felt as though we were walling and there was no point to drag the conversation further. Do note I don't call him town here, just that 'I feel better about his slot'. I nudge Dipsy for misrepresentation again in 278, but Dipsy seems clueless. At this point, I chalked Dipsy's misrepping as a sort of illiteracy--he seemed to actually be reading the thread, picking up something strongly different from what was written, then playing it back despite how much his version of events differed from reality. Dipsy's response in 288 verified this further for me. At 409, it's clear that I don't trust Dipsy's judgment regardless of alignment. By 459, I'm calling Dipsy town because I'm settled on Dipsy's general anti-town engagement as not being intentional.

So, between 459 and 1051, I changed my mind on this. Dipsy's 573 reflects more mudslinging and failure to engage with me, which was a bit awkward and out of nowhere given the Phatom convo/Concorde Pushing Dipsy was doing around the same time and over 100 posts late on the reply there. Dipsy then calls out QualifordLOL for going back on their Cellphone vote (actually, where the fuck is Qualiford? Is that dude scum? What do people think of that dude?) but later insists that Cellphone should just be replaced (rather than lynched) which is a strange stance to have. Hesitation to join on to the late part of the Dimitri wagon is never really spelled out and strikes me much more as scum avoiding lynching someone they know is town, so they look better post-lynch. He lurks for about 100+ posts, then comes back to make an paper-thin defense of Megafan from me. The vote on Cellphone looks like a bus more than anything to me, ESPECIALLY given his justification for moving his vote away in 873, insisting that Cellphone isn't scum but 'just bad because he was NS'. After voting me, he leaves the game entirely except for two prod-dodgy posts, where he doesn't even unvote. Around the time I came back into the game, I noticed most of this, coupled with Dipsy seemingly lurking off any pressure he might receive for his awkward handling/avoiding the Cellphone wagon that'd flipped over to scum. With Dipsy and Phantom as leading wagons, I felt the right choice was Dipsy.
2. I think I covered this in point 1. Most his pushes on me aren't very content-heavy, but he seemed to use an ongoing scumread on me as an excuse not to really engage with (voting-wise) the rest of the game. The soft vote and move-away from Cellphone is all kinds of awkward, but I've already covered that.

3. No one ever asked me to? I don't have to defend every play I make. I figured it was fairly obvious that I came back to the game, realized the Phantom and Dipsy wagons were the only viable wagons for the day, and move forward from there. At the very least, it seemed like some players saw that.

[Natural Aristocracy]

So, in short, Dipsy's interaction with Cellphone and subsequent lurking into a replace-out is weird for me and I'm reading that as scum. At the very least, it trumps the scumminess of Phantom's 'playstyle' defense rubbish.

What does everyone think of QualifordLOL?

I ask this, because I feel almost like I've been buddied by that slot's consistent townread on me and I wonder if other people think he's scum given D1 wagon interaction and the Joey/Cellphone flip?

[Natural Aristocracy]

I could see how you could scumread that. For me, there's a difference between premature justification and defense. I'll defend my play when asked to, but I try not to justify my play as I post. My posts should speak for themselves/stand on their own.

What are the issues that you have with Phantom?
If you posted them earlier, you can just link that way.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'm glad we got scum, but I really have no clue where to proceed from here.

Do you really think the Phantom vs Dipsy was a cross-bus, Gwen?
Why?

[Natural Aristocracy]

I think it's annoying for you to pull the meta card in Secret Alt Mafia. Who do you even think I am, you goon?

I don't really want to lynch Phantom. I'd prefer that we spend the day actually trying to figure out stuff like Quailford.
Like, honestly, really, we have no one claiming/no way to account for the single kill on the night that they supposedly killed Shiba.
:l

[Natural Aristocracy]

@GV: What connection do I have to Cellphone that's so damning that you'd prefer to lynch me over literally anyone else?

[Natural Aristocracy]

In that case, Megafan can confirm that I am vanilla, and, ergo, not the last scum.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Hey, GV.
Instead of softing, just full-claim.
I'm fine to go full ham on Gwen or Quail. Preferably Quail.

[Natural Aristocracy]

We could just lynch Quail, 'cus I'm town.
It's good to see that even having a supposedly strong role doesn't make you any better at reading the game, you dink.

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'll take the cop hit, yo.
I'm fine with the Quailford LOL lynch, too.
Let's do this.