Paint Mafia! - Game Over!

[lilith2013]

THAT'S RIGHT, HE WENT BACK ON HIS PRE-IN

Damn, that's too bad. I still gotta figure out how I'm gonna do that since I'm a total lightweight. Not backing out though. Woot!!

~SW

Same and same. When is this happening again?

VOTE: fro99er

[lilith2013]

THAT'S RIGHT, HE WENT BACK ON HIS PRE-IN

Damn, that's too bad. I still gotta figure out how I'm gonna do that since I'm a total lightweight. Not backing out though. Woot!!

~SW

I mean, so am I. imagine if I drank right along as the mod?

Please do. You are hilarious when you are drunk, LOL.

~SW

2nd!! Drunk votecounts!!

[lilith2013]

Froggy why lilith out of everyone else on your wagon?

Marquis has reason, they know my town meta and I haven't done anything townie.
Aero is obvtown
I'm pretty sure you're town.
Mario is being mario.

Lilith looked like she wanted to fit in with both of her opening posts.

That contradicts what you said about Marquis' vote on you being because of meta. If Spiffeh scumreading you for not following your town meta is invalid, then why is Marquis doing the same thing valid?

[lilith2013]

I assumed everyone had read the sign-up thread and was aware of frogger's post, but I guess that's not the case. What I was trying to get at is that I felt like Frogger was arbitrarily excusing Marquis' vote without being aware of what the actual reason for his vote was. Marquis, what was your initial reason for voting Frogger, and has your reason for voting him changed?

[lilith2013]

TSO has been inactive like this as town in games I've been in with him before and never as scum. I'd rather flip someone else. I've played with him as scum enough, that while he's really good, I think I might be able to figure it out now if he is.

Mario-I'm playing the way I am for a reason.

~SW

Ha!! It wouldn't be a hydra game if I didn't slip at least twice, probably a lot more!!

I'd like to add to this by saying Skybird being this inactive is SUPER concerning to me!! I'd like to flip her color.

VOTE: Skybird

Is Skybird usually very active as town?

[lilith2013]

Frogger, can you explain your reads on marquis, mario, and acryon?

[lilith2013]

Frogger, can you explain your reads on marquis, mario, and acryon?

Hi. Please answer question.

[lilith2013]

Like Lilith you haven't given a read out all game.

None.

Well my question to you was so that I could figure you out. It takes a while for me to form reads. Also, I'm a little intimidated by the amount of posts and I'm finding it difficult to jump in.

I think Spiffeh and AA are town. Townleaning on you atm. I didn't like pisskop's posts about color mechanics, that was a pointless discussion and I agree with this wagon.

VOTE: pisskop

[lilith2013]

VOTE: lilith

Do you have an actual reason for this, or do you just not like me?

[lilith2013]

Just confused as to why Frogger changed his mind about me after I asked him a question to help me read him.

[lilith2013]

or maybe litllit even i mean i have so many ppl i wnat to flip with not enough time and it makes me sad

You know what, please. Flip me.

pedit: other than you and spiffeh and pisskop, nothing really solid.

[lilith2013]

N

u

l

l

s

vii) DrippingGoofball
i) West9
xii) BlueBloodedToffee
xv) T S O
xvi) Awesome (Hydra of Tammy and Espeonage)
xiv) pisskop

v) lilith2013

Oh look there's me in the null section.

[lilith2013]

Not that anyone else did either frogger, but since you asked so nicely:

I agreed with Spiffeh's reasoning for both his push on you and his interactions with pisskop. I liked AA's discussion about Skybird and also the color-miller/painter things. I thought pisskop was trying to steer the game away from meaningful discussion when he asked us to explain the color mechanic to him and I think that is scummy.

The very last player on the null section. I easily could have put you in Liverpool.

Go read my post 60

I still think your reasoning for that vote was pretty arbitrary.

Froggy why lilith out of everyone else on your wagon?

Marquis has reason, they know my town meta and I haven't done anything townie.
Aero is obvtown
I'm pretty sure you're town.
Mario is being mario.

Lilith looked like she wanted to fit in with both of her opening posts.

I mean, how do you know why Marquis voted you? And you brushed off mario's vote on you but he's barely posted since and now you have him in your scum pool. This is why I asked you to explain your reads on them.

[lilith2013]

And there is no need to be snarky, I am more than happy to answer whatever questions you have for me if you just ask them to my face.

[lilith2013]

I still do not understand why you thinking everyone else on the wagon is town must mean that I am scum. It's entirely possible to have an all town wagon. And now you are scumreading Mario, so shouldn't that invalidate your original PoE?

Do you have a reason for scumreading me other than this wagon business that I can address?

pedit: I was just explaining the reason behind my question.

[lilith2013]

iirc, you said it was one (me) if there was scum on your wagon at all. I did read incorrectly though, my apologies.

re my opening posts: I had already signed up for aero's game so I was joining in the conversation on it. It didn't have anything to do with this game or fitting in.

[lilith2013]

Anyway, did nobody notice that Pisskop basically claimed tree stump?

In post 232, pisskop wrote:
Oh, just wanted to say that if I were to vote, acryon would be it.

Ive been skimming though.

(Which is also reminds me of BSG!). Is that what you're doing Pisskop? Do you have a penalty if you do vote?

If espy ever comes around, I'll talk to him about this but this is a slot that I'd like to flip if so. If he's a town tree stump, he's unlikely to be a nightkill because tree stump so who cares, but would be a confirmed town voice to have around, and if he's a scum tree stump or a faking faker who fakes then welp caught scum.

FYI, pisskop has voted and he's also shown up in VCs:

vote: froggy

vote: AA

Im not even a little amused

Votecount 1.07

Anxiety Attack

[2] - BlueBloodedToffee, pisskop

Hey guys I think West9 is town

Yes I think so too. I like his questions.

YOU SHOULDNT FUCKING HAVE A READ ON ME FROG

I HAVENT POSTED SHIT

You have played with town frog. I develop reads on people in like 1 or 2 posts.

See lilith in this game for example.

And that read is wrong.

[lilith2013]

VOTE: lilith

Do you have an actual reason for this, or do you just not like me?

Have you read the general concerns on that you haven't given any indication of your reads up the point in the game where that post was made?

I have, and I've said that I always struggle to form reads. However, frogger's vote was in response to me giving reads so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this? Like if he had raised a concern about the sincerity of my reads or whatever I would have been happy to explain them but he didn't say anything until a page later, after which I did explain my reads so I don't see why this is an issue.

[lilith2013]

overall I'm cool with flipping anyone that isn't obvtown

This is a bad attitude towards a universal daycop. Especially after your bid for leading.

Why is this a bad attitude? Do you think Spiffeh should want to cop obvtowns instead, or just scummy people, or just null people, or what?

[lilith2013]

hey aristo vote TSO because flip him

prod dodge until TSO just gets flipped because if anyone seriously thinks lilith and Davsto are more unreadable or more of a threat if scum (sorry guys but yeah) then please... just no

Lol it's okay I know my scum play is muy terriblé. I guess I'll join this wagon then

VOTE: TSO

[lilith2013]

Lilith needs to post more.

I know and I'm sorry I'm having trouble getting engaged. I don't really think larges are for me, but I'll try to get my head back in the game.

[lilith2013]

Because I told him I would vote him if he made that scummy jump onto my wagon. He did. And I voted him.

Plus, I was hoping to get some reaction from it and boy did I. Just didn't expect as much as I got and now I can't be bothered to catch up and see what happened properly.

What reaction did you get? And how was dav's reaction scummy?

[lilith2013]

I'm not explicitly saying that BBT is scum. I don't know if he's scum.

I'm saying that if he's going to ignore me for whatever reason it's going to be awfully hard for me to sort him and that scum!BBT would hve motivations for keeping this shit up so in everyone's best interests is me getting the opportunity to sort his slot out, including his if he's town.

If you did not have a scumread on BBT, then what does the below post mean?

VOTE: BBT

100% consistent read on BBT. He's scum this game.

lynch please.

VOTE: Acryon

Fairly sure this is scum.

Has your opinion on acryon changed since this post?

[lilith2013]

BBT could be scum. His play is kinda weak and I could see why people are scumreading him. But literally nobody has objected once to the BBT wagon. There has been no counterwagon or pushback, and this isn't the sort of game where everyone looks town so pushing a cw is too suspicious. Scum were just letting this wagon drift into the noose. There is notably more resistance to the Awesome wagon - this again doesn't make Awesome scum, but it makes them a lot more likely to be than BBT, in my eyes.

Other than Dav, what resistance has there been to the Awesome wagon? Iirc most people are scumreading them too.

[lilith2013]

It depends on at what point you think the wagon "grew legs" but:

I have a townread on BBT because meta.

In all seriousness, the way pressure flows onto him seems strange, in a way I don't like. In both terms of the word. It feels like nobody is defending him yet the wagon is stillish; bark but without the bite. Not sure about reading BBT as in the posts themselves; I'd disagree that feeling weird is a scumtell for BBT

plus

This bbt lynch is almost completely unopposed and it reeks of at least as much ass as the tso flip. Lazy town and willing scum imo

and

vote: radiant cowbells

The amount of times youve played with a person despite it getting heated is ridiculous. I find little reason to think this time is somehow different.

My vote was sardonic before, but its serious enough now

as well as

Nah, fuck this.

If you think I'm reading another 20 pages just to get lynched you better think again. I'm done, lynch me.

That's a townie sentiment.

I'm not against the awesome wagon, but I don't see how there was more resistance there. If the only person resisting an awesome lynch is dav, then doesn't the same thing about no resistance apply to that wagon?

[lilith2013]

#936 - Gives the weakest possible townread, weak reason, never backs it up, then produces a double-edged statement that hurts BBT as much as it helps. Votes BBT about 4 pages later. Basically non-existent pressure.

Pisskop - true, pisskop was the one person who disliked the BBT wagon, I'll give you that. But pisskop's main reason for disliking the wagon is actually its lack of resistance. I don't really agree that you can take someone citing the lack of resistance of a wagon as relevant resistance of that wagon.

#1058 - DGB maintained her vote while she said that, so it was completely irrelevant.

Like, those are the only three sets of posts you could find in 10 pages. Two of them are basically irrelevant, one of them I don't feel is fair to use.

In comparison, you have produced more resistance to the Awesome wagon than the rest of the game has to the BBT wagon.

But if citing the lack of resistance cannot be taken as relevant resistance of the wagon, then my questioning the awesome wagon because of lack of resistance can't count as resistance, either. I am only pointing out the same thing you did about BBT's wagon, but with awesome's wagon, unless there was some actual resistance to this wagon that I missed.

[lilith2013]

Sheeping marquis too for now~

VOTE: dgb

-________
-|---------|
-|---------|
-|---------|
_|__-----O
----------|
---------/-\

_ _ O _ O _ A T E

R I G U

L?

[lilith2013]

VOTE: DGB

Can we guess the full hangman word? Because it's gotta be "chocolate"

ding ding ding!

can we vote PK

Why do you want to flip pk?

[lilith2013]

Lilith has to talk to me so I can sort her.

Too bad she hates me so much that she probably would refuse to talk to me.

Omg

I don't hate you stop this.

Hi, let's talk?

Lilith2013 is a Frozen Angel alt. That's why I replaced in.

Geez, didn't you know?

Omg stop

What
The.....The wagon you built?
What?

Why the FUCK did no one say anything about this?

That doesn't mean I liked anyone else on it!

....I guess you're right bleh fine.

And so I've read through and including page 20.

Spoiler:

Ew @ everyone on the Froggy wagon

What
The.....The wagon you built?
What?

Why the FUCK did no one say anything about this?



Jk I read more and I thunk about things and youre town but this kinda made my head turn. Post 400-something you said something that made me feel better tho, some sentiment about not wanting to join a shitty town bloc if you'd be ignoring the people outside of it, idk it felt town-telly to me

so is it bad im already starting to scum read bbt?

No, because I felt the same bad feels in my gut

Then I remembered that bbt was day 1 lynch and flipped scum, soo *validation*

So pending review you might get some brownie points here.

-------

AA and Pisskop back and forth around page 18 or 19 or whatever is TvT.

Everyone encouraging people to flip them = stop that shit

Team scum is BBT/RadiantCowbells/Acryon/Skybird

Did I win?

This is what you got from those 10 pages? Especially considering the bulk of your post is just making a statement and cancelling it out.

I mean

By page 20 I've gotten some decent reads and probz nailed the scumteam. And I've got a decent town pile.

So there's that.

Town pile off the top of my head is, in no order

Davsto
AA
Pisskop
Spiffeh

Oh wow I thought there were more. Well then. I'll read 21-30 now and see what happens, try to keep up with current posts as well

Okay so you put AA in your town pile..

Also, 486 was me. I usually sign all my posts but there's like 2 I didn't and that's one of them.

I would also like to remind everyone that BBT came in here and pretty much zeroed in on us right away. If you look at his catch up, 90% of it was about us and wanting to flip us. I'm not sure what the point of it is if he's scum since then, he would know we are town. However, he could be trying to get us killed ASAP if he's scum.

Again, I don't mind being flipped. But I do question his motivation with wanting ours because if he's town, he should want to flip nulls or maybe scumreads and he straight up told Spiffeh, he's not scumreading us.

This just seems odd and noteable to me.

~SW

I think this is good in retrospect? Idk why AA would put focus on their scum buddy this way

I don't care about your activity. You did fuck all to catch up in mafiaception. I'm not scumreading you for activity here.

THEN WHY ARE YOU SCUMREADING ME

YOU'RE BETTER THAN THIS HOLYKLJSDKLFSDJKL;DFSJKL;FDSKLMCDSZKDKL;'ASjkl;saJKL;SALJKN;

And the various other outbursts from this page, jk I lied this slot is town

---

I liked wests posts around this point, he can have a brownie point.

Awesome's post 539 I like, particularly the thing with Spiffeh because that's the same thing I referred to earlier, where Spiffeh said whatever about the town bloc. I like that we thought the same thing. Same thought process and such. The pisskop thing was also a good catch.

I'm starting page 23 now

Why did you start off this post with thinking SW could be scumbuddies with BBT?

[lilith2013]

RC: No, I'm town. Feel free to ask me all the things you need to if you are having trouble reading me.

I am still townreading Spiffeh and AA. I wasn't getting nearly as townie vibes from Aero as others seem to have been, but I think Elbirn's entrance was okay. Not any worse than Aero, I think. I think I am leaning town on acryon, although I would like to know why he didn't vote for BBT yesterday if he was scumreading BBT. I do not appreciate that marquis was like "trust me on DGB guys, sheep me" and then went "ew no nvm." I sheeped because I think DGB is a person whose content I can't really read, so I am definitely not against that flip. the fact that marquis left the wagon because he didn't like it seems kinda townie to me though. I also feel like if they were scum together, he would have stayed on that wagon until the flip in order to gain towncred. So leaning town on marquis as well.

I.. am not getting the scummy vibes from West that everyone else seems to be. I felt like a lot of his logic over the course of D1 aligned with what I was thinking and I was townreading him yesterday. I can definitely see a scum!Mario, what's been bothering me is his supposed townread on bbt D1 which suddenly and inexplicably turned into a vote on BBT at the end of the day. Not sure what else I have, hiplop and Aristophanes have been very hard to read for me and I need to reread their stuff. I was thinking that Tammy's reaction to her wagon seemed genuine but what do I know. And as I said yesterday, I feel like there wasn't a lot of resistance to the Awesome wagon either, but then BBT's wagon didn't have much resistance and he flipped scum so I don't know what to make of it.

Oh and you. I feel like I want to townread you for your push on BBT, and I feel like I always townread you, but then you love to bus so I could totally see you leading the charge on that one, and no one suspects a thing because you're the first person on the wagon. I also feel like daring us to color flip you is a thing that you would do in order to WIFOM us (well, mostly me because I was fool enough to fall for it once already) into thinking "oh, he's so confident about flipping blue that he'll vote himself."

God I suck at reading people.

What are you thinking about me? Also, I would like to hear your thoughts on acryon once more.


@Elbirn: Sorry, I misread I guess? I realized after I posted that my point was moot. Can you explain what you mean by "you nailed the scumteam by page 20"? And talk more about your read on Dav?


Also @hiplop, I would like to hear why this was said

marqui get your vote back onthere right now you said you had reasons you back it up

hippy your being fliped next

I'm literally conf town

[lilith2013]

Spoiler: @Elbirn

Had a few things to Multiquote so I'm stopping at page 35 to make this post, then moving on to reading pages 36-40 in between work stuff.

Cheetory I <3 u in every way plz keep being u

TSO plz don't change


Everyone else hi nice to meet you I'm s god damn dragon master

Man I wish aero had stayed and I had replaced a different slot and he was drunk every day

I will do what I can to carry on his legacy when I am able. Ima try to be plastered Saturday night, that'll be fun!

VOTE: Acryon

Fairly sure this is scum.

I will make a case only if one player asks for it, and I'm not revealing which player it is.

Oh wait I like this
Fucking who did you replace rc I forgot already
More about you later

Alright, so I've decided to actually play this game.

Great! Cuz my read on you is pretty town right now!

DGB is clearly paying attention to the game, doing the reading, and still is actively and aggressively doing nothing. I don't understand why more people aren't voting this, or why awesome says he's a "touchstone."

I liek this and I liek west

VOTE: BBT

100% consistent read on BBT. He's scum this game.

lynch please.

Didn't I cite my 100% accurate BBT scumread in 564 like 3 posts after he replaced in and was proven right about it?

BBT's literally the easiest person in the game to read. I could literally pick a random 3 of his posts from any game and get his alignment right 100% of the time.

now vote him.

I will be reading up on this very soon though, as soon as I'm on the laptop. Dreading reading those first 10 pages or so again though.

Like this goes past just being a reaction test at this point tbh cuz I wanted to see how he'd react to my proclaiming 100% meta read but I get bad feelings about the way he's ignoring me.

I think BBT may see ignoring me as tactically advantageous because even though he disagrees that I can read him 100% I've never failed to catch him as scum (though I note that I've had at least 1 false positive), and by ignoring me and playing it off as a joke like he did in 564 he can make it far more difficult for me to apply any real pressure to him because people will just assume that I'm voting him because he's ignoring me and that's totally not alignment indicative at all, right?

Please pressure him and make him play the game so I can sort him yo.

The whole sequence of this is like okay yeah what damn
This doesn't read like a bus to me, and while RC has been quite wrong at times in my experience, I've seen him/her (dog what are your pronouns help me out here) fucking laser beam on to scum and kill them with fire in seconds before. And then yeah I don't see rc-scum bussing bbt, and bbt's plan is to blatantly ignore his buddy.

Fucking
Rc I'll explain why I voted you before, for science, but yeah you can be town now

UNVOTE:

I know some people won't like this but the timing of Skybird's replace out REALLY does not sit well with me.

I finally caught up.

DGB, you always scum read me. Maybe you should read some of my games you weren't in and check my alignment in them to get a better read on me.

Town reads so far: Frogger, Spiffeh, Aero.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to keep up this game.

In this post, Skybird does say she might not be able to keep up.

But then she replaces out like 11 posts later. It's not like there were pages and pages since her last post, so what exactly happened in those 11 posts that caused her to make the decision that she was only considering before?

It was the three votes she accumulated within those 11 posts!!!!!!!

What's sketchy here is that when the game is actually fast paced when she posts the above, she is still waffling on whether to replace out. But then when 11 posts crop up within 7 hours, THAT'S when she decides to replace out. This makes it very clear that it was the votes on her that made her replace out.

Even throwing all of this away, her few content posts were really cookie cutter and mostly full of excuses.

And I think hiplop faked frustration at being suspected "because he wasn't given a chance".

So yeah BBT pressure is cool and all but when you want to participate in a Spiffeh-approved lynch come vote for hiplop!

Oh look
It's Spiffeh explicitly building a counter wagon to flipped scum

How about that

RC replaced Chaos Omega I think. What were your thoughts on Chaos?

Can you talk about Spiffeh? What are you thinking about him pushing the counterwagon?

[lilith2013]

RC: No, I'm town. Feel free to ask me all the things you need to if you are having trouble reading me.

I am still townreading Spiffeh and AA. I wasn't getting nearly as townie vibes from Aero as others seem to have been, but I think Elbirn's entrance was okay. Not any worse than Aero, I think. I think I am leaning town on acryon, although I would like to know why he didn't vote for BBT yesterday if he was scumreading BBT. I do not appreciate that marquis was like "trust me on DGB guys, sheep me" and then went "ew no nvm." I sheeped because I think DGB is a person whose content I can't really read, so I am definitely not against that flip. the fact that marquis left the wagon because he didn't like it seems kinda townie to me though. I also feel like if they were scum together, he would have stayed on that wagon until the flip in order to gain towncred. So leaning town on marquis as well.

I.. am not getting the scummy vibes from West that everyone else seems to be. I felt like a lot of his logic over the course of D1 aligned with what I was thinking and I was townreading him yesterday. I can definitely see a scum!Mario, what's been bothering me is his supposed townread on bbt D1 which suddenly and inexplicably turned into a vote on BBT at the end of the day. Not sure what else I have, hiplop and Aristophanes have been very hard to read for me and I need to reread their stuff. I was thinking that Tammy's reaction to her wagon seemed genuine but what do I know. And as I said yesterday, I feel like there wasn't a lot of resistance to the Awesome wagon either, but then BBT's wagon didn't have much resistance and he flipped scum so I don't know what to make of it.

Oh and you. I feel like I want to townread you for your push on BBT, and I feel like I always townread you, but then you love to bus so I could totally see you leading the charge on that one, and no one suspects a thing because you're the first person on the wagon. I also feel like daring us to color flip you is a thing that you would do in order to WIFOM us (well, mostly me because I was fool enough to fall for it once already) into thinking "oh, he's so confident about flipping blue that he'll vote himself."

God I suck at reading people.

What are you thinking about me? Also, I would like to hear your thoughts on acryon once more.


@Elbirn: Sorry, I misread I guess? I realized after I posted that my point was moot. Can you explain what you mean by "you nailed the scumteam by page 20"? And talk more about your read on Dav?


Also @hiplop, I would like to hear why this was said

marqui get your vote back onthere right now you said you had reasons you back it up

hippy your being fliped next

I'm literally conf town

Uh, I think you're town but my read is nowhere near as solid as it is when you don't have a lengthy period to edit your response.
I'm way better as town in face to face / chat mafia.

And while drunk.

No 100% guaranteed townreads for you this game.

Are you still townreading Spiffeh after what was pointed out?
I note that I hated the Skybird wagon when it was formed and I definitely feel like at least one scum was pushing it. Could be Spiffeh.
I'd be more interested in pushing it if I wasn't focused on MM right now.

To a certain extent, yes..? I am trying to trust my gut a bit more and that's still where it's leading me, but I'll admit I wasn't paying much attention while it was happening. Can I get back to you on this tomorrow after I reread things?

Also, yes, my playstyle in chat/f2f is much different from forum. When I play f2f with my friends I tend to be much more of a town leader (because I happen to be a very vocal member of the group). Not so much online.

Can you tell me how to help you solidify your read on me?

[lilith2013]

Can you talk about your read on Mario? And why you chose West over me and Aristo in your previous vote?

[lilith2013]

Hmm I realized I forgot Davsto. Dav, can you talk to me about your thoughts? I feel like usually I see a level of involvement from you that hasn't been there this game, maybe it's because you're in similar boat as me regarding larges, but I do want to hear what you have to say.

[lilith2013]

Hmm I realized I forgot Davsto. Dav, can you talk to me about your thoughts? I feel like usually I see a level of involvement from you that hasn't been there this game, maybe it's because you're in similar boat as me regarding larges, but I do want to hear what you have to say.

Yeh I know, larges

Lean town on RadiantCowbells (because he stopped doing the random-nonsense thing when I called him out)
hiplop is leaning a tad towards town for me
Spiffeh and MM are ehhh teeny tiny scumleans
Will probably check some ISOs tonight to get a better grasp of the game because I skimmed for a few days.

Explain your reads on RC and hiplop a bit more?

[lilith2013]

I'd say that hiplop is mainly gut. His push on me felt genuine.

RC, he was messing around with the fake guilty and the

Lilith2013 is a Frozen Angel alt. That's why I replaced in.

Geez, didn't you know?

You're not buying it because you're one of those goddamn english cheapskates who are too busy sipping tea and eating crumpets to know a fantastic deal when you see it.

stuff, but when I told him to stop, he actually stopped.

OK. She's not in the game.
I'm voting MM because I think he's probably scum.

I feel that scum!RC would stubbornly keep messing around even though it's anti-town because, let's face it, he'd probably get townread for it.

Hmm okay.

Talk about your read on Spiffeh too please?

I need to sleep but I'll ask you more things tomorrow, hopefully after you have said more things that I can then ask things about.

[lilith2013]

im kinda tempted to start an awsome waogn for flip.....

would anyone be intrested in that?

I would prefer DGB/Mario but I am probably fine with flipping Awesome, hiplop, or Aristophanes based on inability to read them too.

[lilith2013]

RC: No, I'm town. Feel free to ask me all the things you need to if you are having trouble reading me.

I am still townreading Spiffeh and AA. I wasn't getting nearly as townie vibes from Aero as others seem to have been, but I think Elbirn's entrance was okay. Not any worse than Aero, I think. I think I am leaning town on acryon, although I would like to know why he didn't vote for BBT yesterday if he was scumreading BBT. I do not appreciate that marquis was like "trust me on DGB guys, sheep me" and then went "ew no nvm." I sheeped because I think DGB is a person whose content I can't really read, so I am definitely not against that flip. the fact that marquis left the wagon because he didn't like it seems kinda townie to me though. I also feel like if they were scum together, he would have stayed on that wagon until the flip in order to gain towncred. So leaning town on marquis as well.

I.. am not getting the scummy vibes from West that everyone else seems to be. I felt like a lot of his logic over the course of D1 aligned with what I was thinking and I was townreading him yesterday. I can definitely see a scum!Mario, what's been bothering me is his supposed townread on bbt D1 which suddenly and inexplicably turned into a vote on BBT at the end of the day. Not sure what else I have, hiplop and Aristophanes have been very hard to read for me and I need to reread their stuff. I was thinking that Tammy's reaction to her wagon seemed genuine but what do I know. And as I said yesterday, I feel like there wasn't a lot of resistance to the Awesome wagon either, but then BBT's wagon didn't have much resistance and he flipped scum so I don't know what to make of it.

Oh and you. I feel like I want to townread you for your push on BBT, and I feel like I always townread you, but then you love to bus so I could totally see you leading the charge on that one, and no one suspects a thing because you're the first person on the wagon. I also feel like daring us to color flip you is a thing that you would do in order to WIFOM us (well, mostly me because I was fool enough to fall for it once already) into thinking "oh, he's so confident about flipping blue that he'll vote himself."

God I suck at reading people.

What are you thinking about me? Also, I would like to hear your thoughts on acryon once more.


@Elbirn: Sorry, I misread I guess? I realized after I posted that my point was moot. Can you explain what you mean by "you nailed the scumteam by page 20"? And talk more about your read on Dav?


Also @hiplop, I would like to hear why this was said

marqui get your vote back onthere right now you said you had reasons you back it up

hippy your being fliped next

I'm literally conf town

Uh, I think you're town but my read is nowhere near as solid as it is when you don't have a lengthy period to edit your response.
I'm way better as town in face to face / chat mafia.

And while drunk.

No 100% guaranteed townreads for you this game.

Are you still townreading Spiffeh after what was pointed out?
I note that I hated the Skybird wagon when it was formed and I definitely feel like at least one scum was pushing it. Could be Spiffeh.
I'd be more interested in pushing it if I wasn't focused on MM right now.

To a certain extent, yes..? I am trying to trust my gut a bit more and that's still where it's leading me, but I'll admit I wasn't paying much attention while it was happening. Can I get back to you on this tomorrow after I reread things?

Also, yes, my playstyle in chat/f2f is much different from forum. When I play f2f with my friends I tend to be much more of a town leader (because I happen to be a very vocal member of the group). Not so much online.

Can you tell me how to help you solidify your read on me?

Basically just post as much as you can, and ideally engage with me whenever you can.
I like what you've posted so far today but it takes a lot for me to get a read on people, and talking with them directly helps!
Doesn't even have to be game related, there's stuff that I'm looking for that I can see from anything regardless of whether it's relevant to the game.

Tammy has been absentee but she's really busy in real life at the moment so I'm not sure if there's much value colour flipping her.
Would rather just lynch her since I don't think she would be able to contribute much even if town at this point.

Okay. Not sure about the non-game related thing, I've never been one for small talk. Talk to me about acryon, please. You came out with a 100% scumread on him Day 1. Has that read changed at all D2 and why/why not?

[lilith2013]

So what exactly was your case on him then?

[lilith2013]

Oh I misremembered. You said you 100% scumread BBT. Acryon you said you were fairly sure was scum.

[lilith2013]

Which other wagons are you willing to join specifically?

[lilith2013]

Umm, that I really disliked one of his posts and that I wanted to pressure him and get more out of him.
Usually what I really want from everyone until I have a huge scumread is for everyone to just post more, because the more content = the better my reads are.
Also, that Acryon read (and the BBT read) was exaggerated. I exaggerate things for reactions. I didn't actually scumread BBT until the ignoring thing continued and then I reread and found that I scumread him for the rest of his play as well.

Which other wagons are you willing to join specifically?

I haven't read most of D1.
If I can't get a lynch or flip on one of my major scumreads I'd follow town onto anything that I'm not explicitly townreading.

And those townreads are?

How do you feel about pisskop currently? Do you still want to flip him?

[lilith2013]

RC: No, I'm town. Feel free to ask me all the things you need to if you are having trouble reading me.

I am still townreading Spiffeh and AA. I wasn't getting nearly as townie vibes from Aero as others seem to have been, but I think Elbirn's entrance was okay. Not any worse than Aero, I think. I think I am leaning town on acryon, although I would like to know why he didn't vote for BBT yesterday if he was scumreading BBT. I do not appreciate that marquis was like "trust me on DGB guys, sheep me" and then went "ew no nvm." I sheeped because I think DGB is a person whose content I can't really read, so I am definitely not against that flip. the fact that marquis left the wagon because he didn't like it seems kinda townie to me though. I also feel like if they were scum together, he would have stayed on that wagon until the flip in order to gain towncred. So leaning town on marquis as well.

I.. am not getting the scummy vibes from West that everyone else seems to be. I felt like a lot of his logic over the course of D1 aligned with what I was thinking and I was townreading him yesterday. I can definitely see a scum!Mario, what's been bothering me is his supposed townread on bbt D1 which suddenly and inexplicably turned into a vote on BBT at the end of the day. Not sure what else I have, hiplop and Aristophanes have been very hard to read for me and I need to reread their stuff. I was thinking that Tammy's reaction to her wagon seemed genuine but what do I know. And as I said yesterday, I feel like there wasn't a lot of resistance to the Awesome wagon either, but then BBT's wagon didn't have much resistance and he flipped scum so I don't know what to make of it.

Oh and you. I feel like I want to townread you for your push on BBT, and I feel like I always townread you, but then you love to bus so I could totally see you leading the charge on that one, and no one suspects a thing because you're the first person on the wagon. I also feel like daring us to color flip you is a thing that you would do in order to WIFOM us (well, mostly me because I was fool enough to fall for it once already) into thinking "oh, he's so confident about flipping blue that he'll vote himself."

God I suck at reading people.

What are you thinking about me? Also, I would like to hear your thoughts on acryon once more.


@Elbirn: Sorry, I misread I guess? I realized after I posted that my point was moot. Can you explain what you mean by "you nailed the scumteam by page 20"? And talk more about your read on Dav?


Also @hiplop, I would like to hear why this was said

marqui get your vote back onthere right now you said you had reasons you back it up

hippy your being fliped next

I'm literally conf town

Uh, I think you're town but my read is nowhere near as solid as it is when you don't have a lengthy period to edit your response.
I'm way better as town in face to face / chat mafia.

And while drunk.

No 100% guaranteed townreads for you this game.

Are you still townreading Spiffeh after what was pointed out?
I note that I hated the Skybird wagon when it was formed and I definitely feel like at least one scum was pushing it. Could be Spiffeh.
I'd be more interested in pushing it if I wasn't focused on MM right now.

When you say you hated the Skybird wagon, are you talking about the initial wagon during RVS, or the wagon later on that was on hiplop after Skybird replaced out, or the wagon at some other point?

[lilith2013]

When you say you hated the Skybird wagon, are you talking about the initial wagon during RVS, or the wagon later on that was on hiplop after Skybird replaced out, or the wagon at some other point?

The Hiplop wagon post replace out, the original was pretty fine.

I have to head to class, but I will be back later to ask you more questions and look at the wagon.

[lilith2013]

@RC: so I've been rereading and I honestly don't see much of a Skybird wagon where you say it was. It was just Spiffeh pushing hiplop's slot at the very beginning of the BBT wagon, as far as I can tell. Which I *think* is okay because he said BBT was scum and also pushed Awesome, so him pushing the Skybird thing in itself is not pinging me, but the overall arc of Spiffeh during this period is meh because he ended up getting on the BBT wagon much later--why not as soon as he was scumreading BBT? Why didn't he put more effort into pushing hiplop and instead focused on a player who was no longer in the game? Like there was little to no engagement with hiplop after the scum!Skybird post, which bothers me.

[lilith2013]

@acryon, can you explain why you weren't on the BBT wagon even though you were scumreading him?

[lilith2013]

I would still rather flip DGB and lynch Mario, I think.

[lilith2013]

RC, are you going to respond to me about Spiffeh and the Sky wagon?

[lilith2013]

uh.... so you're townreading mario??

[lilith2013]

@marquis

uh.... so you're townreading mario??

[lilith2013]

I think west is probably town. You think dgb is town now?

[lilith2013]

This is the color flip phase.

VOTE: mario

I still want to flip DGB but it looks like that's not happening. My second preference is still Mario, though his recent posts are slightly better. And I guess I'm willing to vote Spiffeh if AA feels so strongly and we're getting short on deadline.

[lilith2013]

So how come you're not voting him?

I don't think this is going to flip red but whatever, let's get this over with so we can move on to lynching someone.

VOTE: west9

[lilith2013]

I don't like how Marquis has led us on two bad colorflips and tried to divert us off Mario repeatedly. Mario dies today. Period.

VOTE: Mario

~SW

How does this make sense? If you think there is some sort of chainsawing there, don't you flip Marquis first?

He also got us off the Awesome wagon and back on the BBT lynch which is kinda dumb if marquis (and possibly awesome) are also scum because BBT was their roleblocker, no?

[lilith2013]

What about awesome do you think has been scummy? (Also

@mod, are we supposed to be getting a replacement for Espe?

)

Can you explain how you went from townreading BBT to being on his wagon? It did not seem like you were scumreading him, you just thought he was our best lynch in a lukewarm way. Were you scumreading awesome at that time?

[lilith2013]

What's the difference between lynching bbt to save awesome and lynching awesome to delay bbt's lynch?

[lilith2013]

So are you/were you scumreading awesome?

[lilith2013]

I should say, if you are currently scumreading awesome's slot, when did you start scumreading them and why?

[lilith2013]

How do you figure he's trying to discredit you?

[lilith2013]

OMG!!!!!!

This needs to be flipped or lynched.

[lilith2013]

How do you figure he's trying to discredit you?

The fact that you kind of blew this question off bugs me a little. I don't think acryon is trying to discredit you, I think he's questioning something that he doesn't understand because the logic doesn't fit for him, and I would rather have that than someone accepting your arguments blindly.

[lilith2013]

@AA^

[lilith2013]

I don't think that wagon qualified as "RC led" whatsoever. if anything, it was marquis who changed the momentum from awesome back to BBT.

[lilith2013]

But, you know, semantics.

VOTE: DGB

[lilith2013]

Who pushing DGB do you think is scum?

[lilith2013]

(Other than Aristo.)

[lilith2013]

sniped. give me someone else.

[lilith2013]

Why? What disqualifies the wagon with Aristo on it as a bus?

[lilith2013]

I don't like Mario either, but are you telling me that you think Mario is leading the DGB wagon too?

[lilith2013]

You don't think Spiffeh is scum anymore?

[lilith2013]

Fine. I want to flip DGB tomorrow.

VOTE: Mario

[lilith2013]

For me, initially, it was the way he moved on to BBT's wagon. (The relevant posts have already been quoted by RC above.) first he said he thought BBT was town and that the pressure on BBT was really strange. Then, as BBT's wagon gains momentum, he hops on it because he thinks BBT is the best lynch, with no objections about the strange pressure. Now he's saying that BBT's counterwagon (Awesome/you?) is scummy because the wagon on that slot disappeared over night (people had said, let's flip them tomorrow instead), rather than looking at the people who let the wagon die (the people who would have reason to do that would be scum if they were building up the counterwagon to save BBT).

Like. I'm not 100% sure he's scum, which is why I wanted to flip him today. But this is probably in my top two lynches.

[lilith2013]

@Aristo: can you explain what you meant by "Mario is scummy by association"?

[lilith2013]

Oh shit it's Davsto. I'm probably going to wagon you at some point this is gr8.

A) No, I don't. If they were merely sheeping occasionally, sure. But she seems to be sheeping for the sake of sheeping and floating through. This isn't adding a vote to add pressure. There is no gain noted by DGB. She just wagons willy nilly.

So it looks like she was super early on the West9 wagon based on the votecount, and she doesn't seem inclined to join this Mario one. Wouldn't that signal she's not just merely sheeping votes?

Also I'm not sure the "no gain" bit is true - it looks like she jumped onto the BBT wagon super early and that was a scumflip. No?

B) To a certain extent, yes. But being nauseated does not preclude someone from adding a line that says "why I made this read/vote is ___."
That simple effort is all it takes and is what I would expect from a town mindset. This is absent here.

Well I dunno if anyone asked the question.

@DGB:

Why did you vote West9?


pedit: holy avalanche of posts batman[/quote]

DGB was on the BBT wagon fairly early. But then right before he got lynched, she quoted him and said "this is a townie sentiment." but made no argument against his lynch/didn't try to push us off the wagon/didn't unvote.

[lilith2013]

Gah zito your tags messed up my tags

[lilith2013]

Gah zito your tags messed up my tags

I KNOW I KNOW SORRY

btw your avatar scares the shit out of me

DGB was on the BBT wagon fairly early. But then right before he got lynched, she quoted him and said "this is a townie sentiment." but made no argument against his lynch/didn't try to push us off the wagon/didn't unvote.

I'm p sure this is your post.

That is weird. I think it'd be shadier if he'd flipped town tho.

@DGB

what's up with this?

why does my avatar scare you

[lilith2013]

There's a lot of people going "X is scum vote plz" but nobody seems able to articulate why. That may be a hint to stop, wait a minute, fill my cup, put some liquor in it.

Can someone, anyone, give me a "well zito my good man, X is scum cuz of these excellent reasons: A, B, C"

just give me something to work with here

anything

ilu?

well elbirn is making up reasons to scumread me?
and when one of his reasons is proved as blatant bs he says "nvm i was just being snarky"?

ALSO HOLY PEDITS

Can you quote these posts where he did those things

[lilith2013]

I also may have misremembered, things are pretty jumbled up in my head.

[lilith2013]

Mario, I don't understand how awesome, the counterwagon to bbt, can be scum for other people not keeping their promises about flipping them. Like shouldn't that say more about the people who were trying to prevent the bbt lynch than it does about awesome?

I'm pretty sure somebody already said this exact thing so sorry if that's the case but I'm really not getting it.

[lilith2013]

I'm not

[lilith2013]

Also

There's a lot of people going "X is scum vote plz" but nobody seems able to articulate why. That may be a hint to stop, wait a minute, fill my cup, put some liquor in it.

Can someone, anyone, give me a "well zito my good man, X is scum cuz of these excellent reasons: A, B, C"

just give me something to work with here

anything

ilu?

well elbirn is making up reasons to scumread me?
and when one of his reasons is proved as blatant bs he says "nvm i was just being snarky"?

ALSO HOLY PEDITS

Can you quote these posts where he did those things

[lilith2013]

Yes hi can I help you?

[lilith2013]

Hi Mario are you going to ignore my posts?

[lilith2013]

I'm going to agree with whoever it was who said that likely scum were planning to "paint over" one of their members and didn't realize until the next day that it came out purple and not blue. So I want to flip zito.

[lilith2013]

VOTE: papa zito

[lilith2013]

To cover up color so they can't get color flipped?

[lilith2013]

VOTE: papa zito

This slot being the purple one yesterday still makes the most sense to me. I have no idea why we flipped Elbirn.

[lilith2013]

They don't necessarily know they were painted..

[lilith2013]

@mod - If, for example, a player had the ability to "paint" another player a different colour, would the player getting painted be informed that their colour had changed?

It would depend on the specific mechanic causing a colour change. As in, the inner workings of specific mechanics/roles that may or may not exist in this game are not public knowledge.

======================================================================

[lilith2013]

It's definitely possible they don't know.

[lilith2013]

Are we thinking it's more likely for scum to paint themselves or paint town?

[lilith2013]

Well we flipped west D2. Maybe the reason scum didn't kill him was to paint him "red" except it turned out purple instead

[lilith2013]

What do you mean he would be dry by now?

[lilith2013]

I suppose that's true.

VOTE: firebringer

[lilith2013]

Yeah, Firebringer's ISO is devoid of any content. He replaced Marquis who pushed BBT pretty hard which made me townread him but still, he could be scum.

Ari replaced Frogger who was pretty town and looks fairly town since replacing.

I guess we can flip one and lynch the other if the person we flip is blue as that will likely confirm the other as scum?

I mean, it's getting to a PoE game at this point either and one of these two is likely scum.

VOTE: Firebringer

~SW

I agree with all of this.

[lilith2013]

I think maybe it's like a "they have wet paint for x nights then it dries" kind of thing.

[lilith2013]

Well the role would specify but since it's probably a scum role it's not like they're going to tell us what the specifics are.

[lilith2013]

Can we color flip firebringer and if he's purple then we lynch him? (If he's blue lynch aristo)

[lilith2013]

shouldnt we be flipping west "coastin on a blue flip" 9

VOTE: west9

Also I don't like this and I think we should flip hiplop tomorrow.

[lilith2013]

If fire flips purple and we lynch him then we know for sure whether scum painted town or scum, yeah?

[lilith2013]

So can we flip him please.

[lilith2013]

Can we just flip someone already. I strongly prefer firebringer but aristo is also fine.

[lilith2013]

Color flipped.

[lilith2013]

i mean i guess ari could be purple but that makes less sense to me

Why does that make less sense?

[lilith2013]

you know why

Please enlighten us.

[lilith2013]

I want an explanation. None of this softclaiming crap.

[lilith2013]

I'm calling BS on hiplop.

[lilith2013]

Firebringer's at l-1, somebody hammer for the flip already.

[lilith2013]

If you flip blue then Aristo is probably purple and we lynch him.

[lilith2013]

One of {west, fire, ari} is most likely purple and from elbirn we know there's 2 purple players so purple is presumably the remaining scum. Since west already flipped blue there's a fair chance he's not purple now. Therefore if fire flips purple we lynch him. If blue we lynch aristo.

[lilith2013]

We don't know exactly how the paint mechanic works but then if Aristo flips town we know we have a conf lynch in West next day.

[lilith2013]

Preeeeeeeetty sure acryon is town.

[lilith2013]

Jesus.

[lilith2013]

You forget Elbirn said there are 2 purple players and 9 blue. So either scum have painted themselves blue (or already been blue) and then painted town purple, or they've painted themselves purple.

[lilith2013]

Waiting on hiplop before I vote.

[lilith2013]

Yeah if the person we lynch flips blue then tomorrow I would flip/lynch the 3rd person and hiplop.

I said if purple are town then the scum were either color-godfather type roles or were able to paint themselves blue, or were able to paint themselves blue but only for one night before the paint turns purple?

[lilith2013]

And technically you don't know if you are blue still.

[lilith2013]

And you probably wouldn't be told if you had been painted.

[lilith2013]

so how do you know

[lilith2013]

nvm you got banned lol

hey guys did you know this is a game thread

Anyway I feel like West is p clearly town here so I have 0 desire to vote him. The cool kids tell me that means I have to vote Ari but I'm not super stoked about that either. If someone could give me some actual yaknow mafia reasons for some of the shit we're doing that'd be a real humdinger.

Once again.

From Elbirn, we know there are 2 purple players and 9 blue. So either the 2 (probably) remaining scum have painted themselves purple, or have managed to paint themselves blue (with possibly a color godfather) and painted 2 townies purple.

From acryon, we know that 1 out of {west, ari, fire} had wet paint last night. Assuming that's from scum painter role doing their thing, one of those 3 is purple. We color flipped fire (blue) so either ari or west is purple. If we lynch one and they flip purple, we know from the flip whether scum painted themselves purple or town purple. If they flip blue, we can infer the other is purple etc.

[lilith2013]

Preeeeeeeetty sure acryon is town.

[lilith2013]

Do you have a better idea?

[lilith2013]

Other person I think is worth looking into is hiplop but I'd rather flip him than lynch him, I think.

[lilith2013]

The intent here is to find the purple person in order to find that out.

[lilith2013]

Scenario 1: we lynch the purple person out of {west, ari}. We know directly from their flip whether they are town or scum.
Scenario 2: we lynch the blue one. Thus we infer the last person to be purple (we could color flip them tomorrow if we don't have any other leads and want to confirm). If the blue lynch flips scum, then we know purple is town. If blue lynch flips town, then we don't know (but can verify tomorrow) whether the purple person is town or scum.

Pedit: so we try to find purple again tomorrow? Presumably *somebody* who was blue got painted purple last night and this is our best lead.

[lilith2013]

@mod: zito should be voting ari?

Does anyone have a reason for preferring one over the other?

[lilith2013]

And what are the chances that scum will leave him alive?

[lilith2013]

Dark background vs light background?

West's was a dark background too though?

[lilith2013]

What were you trying to point out?

[lilith2013]

Idk that could also just be because his profile picture is pink-tinted?

[lilith2013]

But right now we have 2 purple players so it doesn't seem like the purple fades.

Also was there ever a push to color flip RC?

[lilith2013]

But why wouldn't his color be flipped as purple?

[lilith2013]

But if Elbirn sees purple players, wouldn't they reveal as purple on a flip? What's the point of painting them if they keep flipping blue?

[lilith2013]

Easier to flip someone who hasn't been flipped than someone who has already flipped blue?

[lilith2013]

Can you explain your reasoning on this elbirn?

[lilith2013]

Why do you think west is the painted one?

[lilith2013]

VOTE: hiplop

Still here after yesterday.

[lilith2013]

I think that's just the coloring. His text isn't purple like West's was.

[lilith2013]

Can we just flip somebody, as the color flip thing is probably useless at this point.

[lilith2013]

Um... are yall colorblind or something??? Acryon's picture was definitely blue--at least much more so than Elbirn's or RC's, and neither of them flipped purple.

[lilith2013]

???

Can somebody draw a circle indicating where acryon's flip is purple because I am really not seeing it.

[lilith2013]

Okay but it's no longer a thing since cheet fixed it, yeah?

[lilith2013]

My lynch/flip options today are hiplop and zito.

[lilith2013]

My lynch/flip options today are hiplop and zito.

Not opposed.

You've wanted Zito for a while, I can do that.
VOTE: Zito

Why not hiplop

[lilith2013]

What has hiplop done to make you like him

[lilith2013]

Okay but I want to flip one and probably lynch the other.

Do you still want to flip zito?

[lilith2013]

Why spiffeh.

[lilith2013]

Alright let's get this over with.

VOTE: zito

[lilith2013]

Who do you think is scum?

[lilith2013]

Do you have an opinion on anyone else?

Does anyone have an opinion on anyone?

[lilith2013]

Ari, scumreads?

[lilith2013]

Xtox, you too please.

[lilith2013]

No worries.

In the interests of transparency, since I totally get that my lack of contribution to date makes me basically unreadable - Enough people have said his name (and we have an actual vote now) that I'm anticipating a wagon of some sort to form, especially given the malaise that we seem to be experiencing atm. So my iso dive and subsequent questions are gonna serve 2 purposes, one to get a solid read on an apparently controversial slot and two to evaluate how others are approaching said slot.

FWIW I have a few of townreads based on how mechanics have played out and how some players are attempting to solve the game but I'm not sure how valuable it is to share those rn.

I would like to hear them.

People I forget are playing unless I read their posts: Xtoxm, Davsto
People who are memorable in the game, but I forget their posts: Lilith
People who could be scm for lack of contribution: Zito

So

All of your scumreads are based on lack of memorability etc
Rather than their actual, you know, play? Doing scummy things?

Can you see why I feel that is awfully convenient?

Scumreads?

[lilith2013]

I would like to hear them.

Hmm. Why?

To quote marquis.. ~reasons~

[lilith2013]

Are you not going to say unless I give a reason?

[lilith2013]

Are you not going to say unless I give a reason?

What benefits do you see.

I'm trying to figure out whether I'd want to lynch you still.

[lilith2013]

Are you still not going to tell me who your townreads are?

[lilith2013]

/shrug I guess I'll reveal my cards now.

VOTE: zito

guilty.

[lilith2013]

/shrug I guess I'll reveal my cards now.

VOTE: zito

guilty.

I'll sheep it! XD

VOTE: Zito

Can I ask the nature of this guilty?

Can I reveal it after zito claims?

[lilith2013]

Not a cop. I'm a tracker. Zito targeted acryon last night. Can't be protective since acryon died. Shouldn't be another investigative since as you say yourself, "not buying a cop in this setup."

[lilith2013]

Don't have any other guilties.