Borderlands Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Varsoon]

VOTE: BEEBOY
I AM THE ONE TRUE VARSOON
ALL THESE OTHER VARSOONS ARE JUST IMITATING

[Varsoon]

I THINK THAT THIRD VOTE STUFF IS SOME IMAGINARY RUBBISH
RELIES ON THINKING SCUM DON'T LEAD WAGONS
BUT I HAVE MODDED PLENTY OF GAMES ON THIS SITE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS
SCUM LEAD WAGONS

[Varsoon]

Yup.

Varsoon why the caps spam?

I WANT TO DIFFERENTIATE MYSELF FROM THE OTHER WANNABE VARSOONS
I AM HE WHO IS THE MIGHTIEST
I MAKE THINGS LOUD

[Varsoon]

I WILL KEEP THINGS SUCCINCT.
I'M LOUD, BUT I WON'T BE MAKING THAT MUCH NOISE, YA DIG?

[Varsoon]

I FIND IT CURIOUS THAT SUZUNE WOULD ASK ME TO LAY OFF MAKING PARAGRAPH CASES
PROBABLY NOTHING BUT
YOU CAN NEVER KNOW

[Varsoon]

I AM MY OWN WORST ANIME
BUT REALLY I LIKE THE WAY THE CAPS LOOK
WHAT CAN WE DO TO THROW THIS GAME INTO OOOOVVERRRRDRIVE?

[Varsoon]

VOTE: DWLEE
I ACTUALLY THINK EVERYONE IS SCUM UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE
COME AT ME.

[Varsoon]

The votes on me are p awful.

WELCOME TO THE FIRST FIVE PAGES OF A 24 PLAYER GAME
YOU HAVE TO LATCH ON TO EVEN THE LITTLEST OF THINGS.
YOU'RE SWEATING A LOT OVER WHAT IS RELATIVELY LITTLE PRESSURE.

[Varsoon]

10/10 town logic: Let yourself get lynched not doing so is antitown.

THERE ARE ANTI-TOWN AND TOWN WAYS OF DEFENDING ONESELF.
YOUR DEFENSE, HOWEVER, READS AS SCUMMY TO ME.
EVEN NOW, YOU POSE YOURSELF AS 'LETTING YOURSELF GET LYNCHED' WHEN IT'S ONLY A HANDFUL OF VOTES.
IT'D BE LIKE GETTING ONE OR TWO VOTES IN A NORMAL GAME AND GOING "WOOOOAH! THIS WAGON ON ME NEEDS TO SLOW DOWN!"

[Varsoon]

I'D PREFER NOT TO HAVE A 200 PAGE DAY 1, PLEASE.
I'VE ALREADY SUFFERED THROUGH THAT HELL BEFORE.
IT HELPS NO ONE.
IN THESE KINDS OF GAMES, NIGHT RESULTS AND FLIPS DRIVE THE MOST WORTHWHILE DISCUSSION.
LET'S GET THIS OVER WITH
VOTE: DWLEE

[Varsoon]

ALL OF THE SIGHS IN THE WORLD COULD NOT VOICE MY DISAPPOINTMENT IN YOU, BEEBOY.

[Varsoon]

I AM ALSO GLAD THAT WE HAVE HEDGED DOWN THE IMITATORS.
I_AM_NOT_VARSOON HAS A LOT GOING ON, SO HE SHOULD PROBABLY BE V/LA.

[Varsoon]

DWLEE, GIVE US SOME READS.
OTHERWISE, RINSE YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP.

[Varsoon]

I WOULD PREFER A LITTLE MORE EXPLANATION THAN A STRATIFIED LIST, HOMIE.
COULD YOU USE AT LEAST A SENTENCE TO EXPLAIN EACH READ?
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO GAUGE YOUR CONFIDENCE IN EACH.

[Varsoon]

@POPS: OH COOL I LIKE NETRUNNER.

@DWLEE: I DID. NOW GIVE ME AN EXPLAINED READS LIST BECAUSE THE CURRENT GAMESTATE IS FAR DIFFERENT.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR RESISTANCE TO THIS; IT'S PRETTY COMMON TO PRODUCE AS MUCH PRO-TOWN INFO AS YOU CAN WHEN LYNCHED, UNLESS YOU'RE SCUM.

[Varsoon]

I despair of this game. I hand you one of the most obvious smoking guns you'll ever find, and still people find a way to question it.

Magical.

ELABORATE
BECAUSE I LIKE GUNS AND BORDERLANDS IS ALL ABOUT SMOKING AND GUNS
AND MEMES
I FORGOT THE MEMES

[Varsoon]

YOU DON'T THINK TSO'S POINT ABOUT DWLEE AND FAKE-VIGS HOLDS WATER?

[Varsoon]

@BEEBOY: CHECK TSO'S ISO AROUND POST 240. ALTERNATIVELY, CHECK TSO'S ISO AND SEARCH 'SMOKING GUN' BECAUSE I DIRECTLY ASKED HIM ABOUT IT LITERALLY A HANDFUL OF PAGES AGO AND HE DIRECTED ME TO THE POSTS.

Ok. So I decided I'm just gonna netdeck. Which generated enough time for me to read and catch up on this thread.

JUST USE GABE OR YOGASAURUS IF YOU'RE THE RUNNER
FAST ADVANCE NBN IF YOU'RE THE CORP
I DON'T THINK I'VE LOST YET WITH FAST-ADVANCE NBN. SNARE AND EDGE OF THE WORLD ARE 10/10 IMPORTS.

[Varsoon]

I ALSO HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE CURRENT NETRUNNER META IS LIKE
BUT I GOTTA ASSUME THE GABE IS STILL THE BEST RUNNER IDENTITY, HANDS-DOWN.

[Varsoon]

I THINK IT'S FAR MORE LIKELY THAT DWLEE IS LYING RATHER THAN ACTUALLY FORGETTING.
PEOPLE FORGET STUFF LIKE PHONE NUMBERS. PEOPLE DON'T FORGET A SPECIFIC SORT OF PLAY IN A GAME THAT THEY FREQUENT.
IT'S LIKE IF I WENT AROUND JUST MAGICALLY ACTING LIKE I FORGOT WHAT A GAMBIT OR A TRUST TELL WAS.
YOU'D CALL BULLSHIT.

[Varsoon]

I just think you are lynch bait <3 I will protect you from the evil scum.

LINES LIKE THIS DON'T GIVE ME ANY CONFIDENCE IN YOU, BEEBOY

[Varsoon]

BUT HE DIDN'T 'DIE', BECAUSE THE MOD NEVER CONFIRMED HIM DEAD.
DWLEE SAW WHAT WAS CLEARLY A REACTION TEST, AND DESPITE HAVING EXPERIENCED THIS BEFORE, CLAIMED VT.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO HANDWAVE PLAY LIKE THIS, YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE SCUM EXCUSES FOR EVERY MIS-STEP THEY TAKE.
I WISH I WAS SCUM IN THIS GAME AND YOU WERE TOWN, BECAUSE YOU'RE EXACTLY THE KIND OF RUBE I WOULD WANT TO TAKE INTO END-GAME, SO I COULD LIE ABOUT SHIT LIKE BEING MILLER-CLAIMING-COP AND YOU'D CARRY ME INTO THE SUNSET FOR IT.

I'M NOT JUST VOTING DWLEE BECAUSE OF THIS 'SLIP'. I'M VOTING HIM BECAUSE HIS PLAY HAS BEEN OVERLY DEFENSIVE, AWKWARD, AND DOESN'T SEEM TO ADVANCE A TOWN AGENDA.

YOU KEEP PARROTING THAT DWLEE IS 'LYNCHBAIT'. I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO ACTUALLY ELABORATE ON THIS AND SHOW ME WHICH PLAYERS YOU FEEL ARE UNFAIRLY PUSHING DWLEE.

ALSO, DON'T SET UP DWLEE AS SOME POOR DEFENSELESS PLAYER TO BE 'TRAMPLED' OVER. THAT SORT OF RHETORIC DISGUSTS ME.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon I love your analysis of Dwlee but who else are you scumreading? Almost all of your posts focus on Dwlee and mention no one else.

I TEND TO SINK INTO ONE INDIVIDUAL AT A TIME.
I TEND TO CONSIDER EVERYONE TO BE SCUM UNLESS MOD-PROVEN INNOCENT.
OUTSIDE OF DWLEE, I AM GETTING SOME VERY STRANGE VIBES FROM BEEBOY, BUT THAT'S OBVIOUSLY CONNECTED TO THE WHOLE DWLEE THING.

NOT ENOUGH OF THE PLAYERBASE HAS POSTED FOR ME TO GET A MORE ACCURATE READ ELSEWHERE.
I'M NOT GOING TO LIE, MOST PEOPLE ARE NEBULOUS FOR ME RIGHT NOW. GAME JUST STARTED.

@BEEBOY: HE WAS AWKWARD WHEN ONLY ONE OR TWO PEOPLE VOTING HIM.
I'VE ADDRESSED MY REASONS FOR BEING ON THE WAGON BOTH PRE AND POST 'SLIP';
WHY ARE YOU CONSTRUCTING A NARRATIVE THAT NO ONE IS 'FAIRLY' PUSHING THE WAGON?

[Varsoon]

Just because you addressed you reasons doesn't mean I agree with them and don't see Dwlee as town. What would you do if your town read was being lynched? Just sit by and let it happen?

I WOULD SPECIFICALLY FIND WHICH PERSECUTORS WERE MAKING THE MOST SCUMMY PUSH AND I WOULD DISMANTLE THEIR PUSH;
IF YOU CAN'T MAKE THE CALL BETWEEN SCUM PUSHING A TOWN-READ AND TOWN PUSHING A TOWN-READ, THEN ALL YOU'RE DOING IS WHINING.
WHINING SOLVES NOTHING.
PROPOSE A BETTER WAGON IF YOU CAN'T FIND THE SCUM MAKING THE PUSH.
THAT'S WHAT I'D DO, AT LEAST.

WHY ARE YOU SO CONFIDENT IN YOUR TOWN READ ON DWLEE?

[Varsoon]

[spoiler='ROUND HERE, RIGHT WHEN YOU STARTED RESPONDING THAT YOU WERE MISLYNCH BAIT AFTER ONLY TAKING A FEW VOTES]

Im mislunch bait ofc i am concerned.
Not in the mood to get eaten.

The votes on me are p awful.

10/10 town logic: Let yourself get lynched not doing so is antitown.

I am not confident this early unless something pings me hard. And last time I tunelled town for two days and they were a power role. Maybe sleepy posting comes across as scummy, that might be it. But I am pretty sure i got wagoned in denmark mafia d1 elyse. Just like this.

I decided to stop declaring myself town because people scum read me for it. god damnit elyse.

Being "obvscum"as town is fun because yoi get all the people voting for you feeling like total idiots when ya flip

[/spoiler]

[Varsoon]

@BEEBOY: SO HE'S ONLY TOWN IN THE CONTEXT OF HIS WAGON?
GARBAGE.

IF HIS PLAY ISN'T WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HE'S TOWN, THEN HE'S PROBABLY NOT TOWN.

[Varsoon]

CALLING YOURSELF MISLYNCH BAIT IS AWKWARD IN THE FIRST FIVE PAGES, FLAT-OUT. WHY DO THIS? IT SERVES NO TOWN PURPOSE, BUT SEEMS LIKE A GREAT SCUM DEFENSE MECHANISM. YOU HAD ONE VOTE ON YOU. WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT?

IT'S AWKWARD IN RESPONSE TO THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A SINGLE VOTE ON YOU.
THE SECOND I ADDED A VOTE, YOU STARTED TO PANIC.
I ADDED A VOTE AND YOUR ONLY RESPONSE WAS 'THE VOTES ON ME ARE PRETTY AWFUL'.
IT WAS TWO VOTES, HOMIE
TWO.
IT TAKES THIRTEEN TO LYNCH.

I ADDRESSED YOUR 121 ALREADY.

YOUR 129 SEEMS LIKE AN ODD EXCUSE OF YOUR PLAY, WHILE POINTING FINGERS AT ELYSE META-WISE, BUT NOT REALLY ENGAGING WITH HER IN THIS VERY GAME.

IF YOU DECIDED TO STOP DECLARING YOURSELF TOWN, WHY DID YOU DO IT IN THIS GAME?

ALL OF THESE POSTS, IN THE CONTEXT OF YOU HAVING VERY FEW VOTES ON YOU AND GETTING RUN UP, LOOK LIKE YOU WRIGGLING, PLAYING THE "OH NO I AM MISLYNCH BAIT, WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?!" CARDS. IT DOESN'T RING AS TOWN TO ME.

[Varsoon]

I VOTED YOU BECAUSE, RATHER THAN ADDRESS THE VOTE ON YOU OR DO ANY EARLY SCUMHUNTING, YOU OPTED OUT BY CALLING YOURSELF MISLYNCH BAIT.
YOU'RE MAKING YOURSELF OUT TO BE A VICTIM, EVEN BEFORE BEING REALLY RUN DOWN.
THAT PINGED TO ME.
THE REST OF YOUR RESPONSES ARE WHY I KEPT THE VOTE THERE.

[Varsoon]

I was tired :c

I was interacting with elyse to read her. dont give me the you werent scumhunting shit

I HOPE THAT EVERY SCUM YOU EVER PUSH FOR THE REST OF YOUR TIME ON-SITE DEFEND THEMSELVES WITH STATEMENTS SUCH AS "I WAS TIRED."

[Varsoon]

BECAUSE HUMAN ERROR IS A FUCKING GARBAGE DEFENSE MADE BY WEAK PLAYERS, BEEBOY.
IF YOU LET EVERY SINGLE PERSON OFF ON THE 'HUMAN ERROR' DEFENSE, YOU'LL NEVER CATCH SCUM.

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

@BEEBOY: IN THE CASE HE FLIPS TOWN, THEN I REASSESS
SCUM DON'T ALWAYS MAKE THE OPTIMAL PLAY, THAT'S HOW THEY LOSE GAMES
I KNOW THIS MIGHT COME AS A REVELATION TO YOU, BUT IT IS SOMETIMES A SCUM TACTIC TO PLAY POORLY AND ARGUE IT'S POOR TOWN PLAY BECAUSE 'SCUM WOULD PLAY OPTIMALLY'.
I'VE DONE THIS AS SCUM BEFORE, MYSELF.
HOLY SHIT I REMEMBERED THAT, HOW DID I DO THAT?
IT'S ALMOST AS IF FORGETTING THINGS LIKE THIS IS NONSENSE.

[Varsoon]

I'M STILL COOL WITH A DWLEE LYNCH HERE, FOLKS.

[Varsoon]

@DWLEE: MULTI-BALL SPEC IS POINTLESS ON DAY 1.
DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER AT ALL AT THIS POINT.
WE'LL FIGURE IT OUT AFTER THE NIGHT PHASE, IT USUALLY BECOMES PAINFULLY OBVIOUS AT THAT POINT.

@BEEBOY: YOU HAVE TO LYNCH SCUM TO WIN THIS GAME
OR IS THAT NOT YOUR WINCON?

[Varsoon]

LYNCHING TOWN GOES AGAINST MY WINCON SORRY. WTF IS YOUR WINCON?

YOUR POST 773 SUGGESTS THAT PEOPLE SHOULDN'T TRY TO LYNCH THEIR SCUMREADS; BECAUSE BEING INCLINED TO 'KILL SOMEONE' IS AN ISSUE, APPARENTLY?

HOW ARE YOU SO CERTAIN THAT DWLEE IS TOWN?
YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT YOU CAN'T BE 100% SURE, SO YOUR TENACITY ON THIS IS BECOMING QUESTIONABLE.

[Varsoon]

IF TITUS CAN POST ONLY IMAGES, I CAN POST LOUDLY.

[Varsoon]

THAT'S UNFAIR; TITUS HAS TO POST IMAGES AND I HAVE TO POST FULL CAPS
YOU'RE BEING A LITTLE HYPOCRITICAL WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR POLICY, AREN'T YA?

[Varsoon]

I'D BE FINE WITH A BEEBOY WAGON, BUT I'D PREFER A DWLEE LYNCH RIGHT NOW.
IF THE DWLEE LYNCH ABSOLUTELY CAN'T HAPPEN, I AM COOL WITH VOTING BEEBOY.

[Varsoon]

I CAN'T COMMENT FURTHER ON THAT, ROB.

[Varsoon]

@BEEBOY: DWLEE IS SPECCING MULTIBALL AS AN EXCUSE FOR HIS OWN POOR PLAY.
DISREGARD IT.

[Varsoon]

USING HUMAN ERROR AS A DEFENSE IS GARBAGE; I'VE ILLUSTRATED WHY.
THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DECRY THAT IN THIS GAME OF RHETORIC IS JUST A WASTE OF EVERYONE'S TIME, BEEBOY.

[Varsoon]

FURTHERMORE; WE'VE ILLUSTRATED WHY DWLEE IS SCUMMY INDEPENDENT OF YOUR SHITTY HUMAN ERROR DEFENSE.

STEP IT UP, KOHAI.

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

CAN WE GET A VOTECOUNT?

AND A DWLEE LYNCH, YEAH?

[Varsoon]

DWLEE, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT BEEBOY?

[Varsoon]

I can t remembe anyone else on this game.

[Varsoon]

@Rob13
I found this for you.
http://bfy.tw/4Dr7

YOU'RE INSUFFERABLE.
THE CASE ON DWLEE IS NOT LIMITED TO HIM FORGETTING THAT FAKE VIGILANTE SHOTS EXISTED, EVEN WHEN DIRECTLY ASKED ABOUT IT.
EVEN THEN, THAT'S A SHITTY DEFENSE BECAUSE IT'S NULL REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT.
SO PLEASE STOP PUTTING DOWN SUCH PAINFULLY DROLL, REPETITIVE PLAY.
IT'S CLEAR NEITHER OF YOU ARE YIELDING ANY GROUND ON THIS ISSUE.
YOU'RE JUST MAKING NOISE.

[Varsoon]

NOT GONNA HAPPEN, HOMIE.

[Varsoon]

I'M GOING TO BE V/LA THROUGH THE WEEKEND.
I SHOULD BE BACK ON THE 15TH, BUT MAYBE EARLIER.

[Varsoon]

I ALSO WANT TO KNOW WHY YT THINKS THAT PISSKOP HAS A POST RESTRICTION AND WHY ANYONE THINKS POST RESTRICTIONS ARE ALIGNMENT-INDICATIVE.

[Varsoon]

EVERY SINGLE REGULAR GAME HAS A MAFIA TEAM THAT COMMITS A KILL AT NIGHT.
DWLEE, YOU'RE REALLY GRASPING FOR STRAWS HERE, MAN.

[Varsoon]

I'm glad that I was killed early.

[Varsoon]

I've played several large themes and have yet to encounter a mod with the need to contradict the expectations of the players to this extent.

I'm sorry if modding a game while a player in it was unhappy was uncomfortable to you, but that ends up being part of the job when I feel obligated to fulfill my obligations to the other players in the game, but strongly suspect I'm in a game that is not being run the sort of way I want to participate in (which turned out to be the case)

Eeeeh, you might want to avoid my upcoming Space Dandy II game. I don't think any of its roles or interactions hold a candle to the sort of things in this game, but there are some elements that, by design, are meant to deconstruct the typical site meta in many ways.

I wonder where the line is, y'know?

[Varsoon]

Does nobody else think multiball + SK + night-Jester is a bit excessive? 3 kills a night is swingy af

I pretty much hate multiball entirely and still haven't really figured out a good way to make it work without it just being a swingy pile of crap.


Pieguyn, I think that you've got some valid points and I haven't followed the entirety of the discussion surrounding the gunsmith role in question, but regardless of wording, should a player ALWAYS ask the mod how their role works if there is even a 1% chance of miscommunication? I had some similar communication issues in a previous game, which led to me having to spend several paragraphs parsing out exactly how different public mechanics worked. I really think there's an issue that our shorthand lingo simply means different things to different folks, but writing out a longhand description of an ability can be confusing for a player and look overwhelming on a rolecard.

[Varsoon]

To be honest, even though I died early, I thought the flavor and rendered mafia mechanics perfectly fit the theme. I'm probably going to be nominating this for a scummy off of those reasons, because it's clear that Skullduggery did the homework and delivered a fantastically written and very complex game.

As a person who just spent over 20 hours drafting PMs (JUST MAKING PMS, NOT EVEN COMING UP WITH THE SETUP!!) for what I consider a relatively simple game, I understand the investment that goes into just making a setup--let alone modding a game of this caliber for this many weeks.

I think that moderators often don't get the praise they deserve. We do this for free, too. We just want folks to have fun. Yes, it's important for people to speak up when they aren't having fun and, yes, it's important for a mod to take that criticism to heart. However, the respect often doesn't show when, really, it should.

Skullduggery is one of my favorite moderators, players, and people on site. I can understand why Skull is upset over player's grievances in this game and I can understand why players would be upset with aspects of the setup. Don't let all that frustration eclipse this amazing game, though.

[Varsoon]

Wait, if it's always low, doesn't that mean there's not very many mods queuing in games?
I often see queues with the huge bold, allcaps NEED MODS.

I love modding, yo. I'm saying that a game can't be run without a mod, and that modding is a much larger investment of time and energy than playing is. A single mod can allow up to 21 players to enjoy a game experience. Yes, the opposite is true as well--up to 21 players are required for a mod to enjoy running a game. It's for this reason that we should all respect each other's time invested and strive towards an experience that benefits everyone.

I'm not saying your response is unwarranted. I'm saying that you're, right now, a vocal minority that is painting the response to this game as largely negative. This is why it is important to couple positive feedback with the negative and vice-versa. I'd be really glad to have the sort of negative feedback you're giving--it would reinforce a stronger standard for writing role PMs in my future games. Skull likely isn't handling it well because there seems to be a lot of negative feedback without much positive feedback. That's all.

Yeah, Skull made a mistake, and you're right to point that out. Yes, Skull is handling this poorly, as, ideally, a mod should always build from feedback to deliver a better game experience.

I just wanted to forward that, despite some issues in this game, the game as a whole was a fantastic game that represents the sort of dedication that I would like to see more of on-site.

[Varsoon]

I love role madness to the point of hardly ever having vanilla roles.
That said, I always to try to minimize the swing of my games. Despite that, I just finished running SaGa Frontier Mafia, where several single players could have effectively ended the game at any point past the halfway mark.
I think that this game played out very well for the multiball setup that it was, which, if anything, is a testament to it being well-built.

[Varsoon]

I see Open and Normal setups as avenues for that sort of setup.
I use Theme games in order to construct a set of mechanics that keeps players invested in the day performance/rhetoric.

[Varsoon]

Oh, yeah, I think having a strong core, public mechanic is probably more important than individual roles.
Lately, I've been building my public mechanic, then designing all the roles in the games to interact around it.

[Varsoon]

I also want to see and play more games in the "almost Highlander" territory. Especially investigative-free games.

I try to keep roles like Cop out of my setups. I don't think it's a very fun role.