BLOODBORNE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Mixed6]

“We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.”

The revolution begins.

VOTE: Randomidget

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Some thoughts from the Troll head:

Reasonably Irrational is a bad lynch for today. I'm glad to see that no one's going for it. Regardless of alignment there's work being done there that will help town with connections down the road.

Reasonably Irrational is being a bit generous with the analysis of Daenerys and Dragons. This game we earn currency by being on the wagon. Scum are disincentivized when it comes to pretending they can't vote, and hiding for some length of time before springing it as a surprise would seem scummy. Best scum move with the sort of power is to do what Daenerys and Dragons did. Having said that, it's also the best town move, so I'm calling it a null tell alignment-wise. It does make me think "Beast," but I think that the flavor indicates that doesn't make the role auto-scum, and I'm woefully unfamiliar with the setting, so perhaps even the beast guess is unreasonable.

Caution in voting is probably an experience tell more than anything else, but in this case it's generating noise that would be easy for scum to slip into to make it look like they're participating for free. It might be worth looking back there later when we've moved on and the participants have built some more in terms of a body of evidence.

The negative role aspects are probably not worth dwelling on now, but I don't really care about them enough to say to stop as long as specifics don't get issued (the ability to describe another player's role abilities can hurt the town more than scum based on the items for sale.)

I do like Ranger's ranking as it makes her easier to pin down for reasoning later regardless of alignment; is that par for the course for her play?

Shinobi's latest vote is a fine vote. I'm not seeing any useful contribution from Zulfy that would separate him from those who haven't posted yet.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Wait, Sensei, apparently you make me a liar by having the wrong vote. So sad.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, for Daenerys and Dragons, again, there's a lot to gain by voting in this game in particular. It's possible scum could try to gambit around that and hope for a game ending swoop, but it seems like that would put a lot of faith in everyone buying into the only town couldn't vote argument. I don't think it's that strong a move. In the end we agree conclusion-wise so I'm not interested in wasting thread space beyond this arguing about the theory that gets us there. That doesn't help town.

For the tentative opening it could be either, but I had experience in mind in particular. Someone in an overly complex setting compared their previous experiences is more likely to drop into analysis paralysis territory. Bad experiences with a similar setting could have a potentially similar effect though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Sensei, first off, your vote still makes me sad. It should go somewhere more useful.

To answer your question, voting for someone who has done nothing to help the town is a fine use of a vote.

I guess I can add that it's a bit easy, but so's my current vote and that doesn't stop it from being a fine vote in any way at this point in the game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

On another note, it might have been lost in my longish post, but does Ranger typically post tiers like she has been?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, *nods* Fair enough. Still useful to town, so I still approve, but not cause for an early read.

@Sensei, just to be clear here, are you objecting to votes on Zulfy for being useless to town because he's done it before as town? Is there a reason to think he's town this time around or does he act differently as scum? If it should be doing nothing to improve a read then it's just as good as a vote for someone who's posted nothing.

On the plus side, that vote has more merit (i.e. not none.)

It's not helpful to you, but I have talked about Shinobi in my hydra thread. Here I've just said that although I like the most recent vote I think it's an easy one.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

VOTE: Almost50

I like Sensei in this game. Let's be allies.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, I actually don't know anything about Almost50's experience. I've played with Albert B. Rampage and possibly PeregrinV from this player-list (that I recall,) and haven't gotten to looking up previous games for meta yet as it's not worth it at this time. If it turns out that Almost50 has experiences that make my initial impression wrong I'm happy to change them. As it happens, Albert B. Rampage finds the overall behavior plenty voteworthy and hence our vote is there.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body; it calls attention to the development of an unhealthy state of things. If it is heeded in time, danger may be averted; if it is suppressed, a fatal distemper may develop."

Rampage

[Mixed6]

@Patches the Spider, how much do you plan to post? Is it worth voting for you?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Forgot how overwhelmed I feel on Day 1 of large games :\

Scumvibes from Mixed6.

This is bullshit and I'm going to call you out on it right away.

Why are you voting with us from randomidget to almost50?

Wtf is scum vibes, it sounds like you made that shit up for the sake of attacking anyone. We are two active heads and you can't be more specific? And you keep voting with is?

Stand the fuck down and recant immediately.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

You want players here to think that poor Nahdia is overwhelmed and intimidated after 8 pages? You dare attack my slot in the same sentence you try to appear harmless? That's not going to fucking fly Nahdia. None of what you've posted follows.

If you're town, I don't give a single shit about your false justifications for vague ass scum vibes on two players in one slot playing two entirely different games, I want you to DISAVOW your meaningless and unfounded drive-by attack on us. If you make me your enemy now, you will regret it so badly in this game. Don't test me. Disavow.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

There's nothing funny about this. It's actually very serious.

[Mixed6]

You're creating your own future right now. You can double down on your initial misguided "gut read", or you can come around to scumhunt with us, but you need to decide fast. This is it, this is your defining moment in this game as far as we're concerned.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Disavow and scumhunt? Or double down against our slot? Make a decision.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Wise choice, Nahdia. Let's get almost50 lynched.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

ABR, who are your current suspects?

It should be clear my suspects are almost50 and nahdia. Their awkward posts and lack of taking responsibility for what they say, and how not shy they are at exposing their ignorance, like it's a badge of honor, it all screams scum to me.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

After discussing with Zorblag, the wise and level-headed professor, I'm announcing our candidacy for master of the hunt Night 2.

We're going to find scum.

We're going to get powers.

We're going to win.

HUNTMASTER VOTE: Mixed6

[Mixed6]

Please don't. I really don't look forward to a repeat of SF D1.

You mean when we lynched scum Day 1?

Rampage

[Mixed6]

It was Titus' fault we lost. She kept trying to lynch townies while Yosarian and I were lynching scum.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

No Cerb. Zulfy was confirmed town and decided to piss his role away to troll the town as he was upset with me, and Titus was also upset with me and decided to tunnel on me for the entire game.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

After Zulfy pulled that move I mentally checked out of the game so I don't really count whatever happened after. I still consider it a town victory due to the wording of my role pm as well.

Anyway, back to this game. We need a leader.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Would rather Daenerys and Dragons than you.

[Mixed6]

speaking for myself

[Mixed6]

This is the Troll head speaking, and I do endorse the plan of voting for Mixed6 as Master of the Hunt. This is a solid plan that benefits town. It has a backup, a secondary backup and a tertiary backup for when things go wrong, wronger and wrongest. You should all vote for it.

@Nahdia, it might surprise you to learn that I actually think that you getting a scum read on me is fine. Having said that, I'm astounded at how off I think most of your reads of the game are. I don't mean to offend there, it's just that it's so remarkable! It's not even in a "scum would go with these reads to try to get town lynched," sort of way. If you have trouble scum hunting, what do you plan to do to improve, or do you?

@Zulfy, as Reasonably Irrational pointed out, it wasn't Albert B. Rampage that commenting on your self-vote. In so far as anyone was in this hydra it was me. And curiously enough you don't seem to have realized who was defending you in the exchange in which it happened. Given that you spent the effort to set up something you thought was a trap, would you care to look back again and see if you can see who it might actually have caught? It sort of doesn't matter, as that catch isn't particularly better than the one you thought you had and then threw out, but I'd think you'd be interested in seeing what your efforts actually caused to happen.

@Reasonably Irrational, for what it's worth, my opinion of Daenerys and Dragons has improved. The initial reveal is a null tell, but behavior since then looks good to me. On a related note, I don't know if you ever got your answer from them that you raised in Post 196 about the difference between scum hunting and pegging scum, but I think context makes it pretty clear that they found the action to be an attempt to get a scum accusation to stick (peg someone as scum,) rather than actually determine someone's alignment (scum hunting.) They're engaged in the game and looking at interesting places, getting people to talk. Even if they're not town, they're actively helping town at this time. It's the same sort of thing that they didn't like my phrasing of when I applied it to you. They'd be a terrible lynch today unless something related to their power changes it, and at this time I'd be comfortable having them lead an early hunt if Mixed6 wasn't. They're not actually my top choice, but they're way up there.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Boger, good to see another greenskin here. How's it hanging? Who should we be hanging? Or is your vote on Hastur and Muriel actually where you want it?

I like the idea of questioning the spider stuff, Patches being an oddity and all, but I'd rather see some pressure on people you thought were scum. Of the three that you've got quoted after your vote in your opening post there's one that I like the least. Care to guess (and vote for) who?

You should start doing more so that I don't have to suspect you just due to hanging in the background and not making an serious contributions to nailing scum. I'm always sad when a fellow Troll or Ogre falls into that category for me.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Nahdia, excellent choice! Your first lesson is in paying attention! See if you can answer the questions I was asking Zulfy. He can't it seems. I'll give you a head start! The conversation he's talking about more usefully started in Post 142 and Zulfy's trap was that scum would probably try to defend him or blow off attacks on him.

Or, alternatively, you could tell me what you thought was scummy about Shinobi and I could evaluate that. I'm game for either as a starting spot.

Go go blue tutee! My charge is simple scum hunting, so it's pretty reasonable.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, I did have that source mixed up. I was sort of shoehorning that answer into the rest of the post though as it struck me as a surprising thing for you to be confused about and this seemed a good place to address it as I thought I was going to be talking about the source.

My thoughts on Daenerys and Dragons outside that stand (my opinion having improved since the initial null-tell claim.)

@Zulfy, you did notify me, I acknowledge that. It changes little, but it's something you did. Good job?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, your language in the post didn't lead me to believe that was the case, but I'm glad that it was. It stuck out enough that I felt the need to bring it up later apparently.

I've initiated talks with Albert B. Rampage about that in our Hydra thread. Floating one possible solution (not that Albert B. Rampage has weighed in on it from his end,) what would you say to voting for a slate of hunters instead of just the Master of the Hunt? Decisions could be made among that slate in the Hunt thread more or less democratically. It's more of a leadership team than a leader, though there would need to be a figurehead that gets voted for.

..Cerb? i mean, by the setup Zulfy established (the one who defends him once he's attacked for selfvoting is "trapped") then Cerb is the one caught. Your own contribution was just you saying Shinobi's vote was fine. That's not really "defending" in any sense. Either way I think it's kind of a silly trap. It might be an interesting tactic to generate content, but different players will respond in different ways to different situations. I don't think such a specific tell can reliably exist.

That's the wrong answer, but the other bits are excellent! It was a silly trap and mostly a waste of time. The answer that I was looking for though was Sensei. Sensei was the one who objected to my calling the vote for Zulfy fine (he strongly disagreed.) That's the closest anyone came to defending Zulfy after the self vote, but it's easily closer to defending than what I did. If he was really trying to catch scum that should have been the catch (but, like I said, it wasn't a good catch either.)

For your Shinobi suspicion, I'm having trouble seeing how that counts as suspicion. He pressured you some early for what you think wasn't a useful reason (that's what hits it for you?) and then he did a couple things you like? Am I misunderstanding something there?

For what it's worth, I was coy back when Sensei asked me about Shinobi myself, but he's near the top of my scummy list. He's sort of about and is vaguely pushing things (like the case with you I guess,) but it doesn't feel like his hearts in it and he's mostly going for the easy cases in my opinion. I don't get the feeling that he actually cares about finding scum.

Also, for what it's worth, I was the one who said that Reasonably Irrational was a terrible lynch for today. Perhaps you remember that and just aren't bringing up my name because of your extensive pinky swears to Albert B. Rampage.

Let's try another one. What's the reason that you like Zulfy as town? You're not a meta-player, so is there something that seems like it's helping town (or that he sincerely thinks it will) that he's doing here?

@Toogeloo, I think that you're not particularly imaginative if that's the lamest thing you can think of for the game. I also find it a bit troubling that you don't want to call someone scum because you think it isn't the popular thing to do. Are we supposed to be popular here? If so I might have two heads worth of trouble this game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Nahdia, lesson 1A is then to remember who said the things you find scummy. That's kind of useful for scum hunting.

The nightmare bit is interesting for Zulfy. He probably has the ability (which I view as likely scum, but this is a game of paranoia, so who knows,) but if he thinks that traps like the self-vote are worth it, he might think that sort of false claim is as well. I'm still waiting to see where it goes. I like the trying to make it seem like he's trying thinking thinking though. That's something that scum desperately need to do (they know their team, but they need to seem like they're trying to figure them out.)

What's your take on the least active players? Do they deserve more time because they're just busy town who haven't been able to get into the game or are they lurking scum who we should be lynching right here and right now!

There is no right answer, but thinking about it is useful.

@Shinobi, if you do buckle down in the future it might change my opinion of you. That's probably good for you, and if you're town, it's good for the town as well, so, win-win! If you're scum you should of course just keep on keeping on.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Shinobi, if you think I'm saying that to be nice you're not understanding what I'm saying at all. As for the clues I'd have, it's fascinating that you assume they're so predictable. Why not give me (and the rest of us) a try to see how clueless we really are?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Shinobi, there are no threats there, I'm just letting you know what the situation is. You're acting scummy right now. I'm not being nice about it. You seem to be implying you've got more than just reads, though. Unless you think we're idiots we can probably handle leads. If you're not just blowing smoke and you want to help town here you should pick up your game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Nahdia, great! Now, follow up with some of those! I like where you're starting for (tutors should give positive reinforcement after all.)

Ah, the sarcasm, bask in it all around!

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Nahdia, and I think that Patches the Spider can be pulled from your list; they're clearly a special case and if we want to worry about them (which I personally don't right now,) we shouldn't be treating them as a low activity player but as some sort of anomaly.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Nahdia, sleep well! And I apologize for any condescension. I'm playing along, but if I think you might be town I want you to get into this and find the scum. If the way I'm prompting ever feels bad let me know and I'll change tact.

Can you tell that the Troll head and the Rampage head are different heads?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Shinobi, pick your poison and put some pressure on an inactive then. Find out who's worth voting for to help lynch scum. I'm not claiming my case is a strong case; it's day one and I'm not Albert B. Rampage, so a strong case would be surprising. If you're town then make the effort to win the game.

@Gee Willikers, thank you for what I'll take as a glowing endorsement for the purposes of this conversation! Use your powers of persuasion and make this happen!

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

You can vote us for huntmaster too.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

@Ranger, then you should do so. In particular you should vote Mixed6.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Question to anyone who has played with Zulfy before.

Does he tend to self vote a lot ?

I've seen him do it before.

Klingon, are you endorsing us for master hunter?

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Cerb if we're the master hunter, we're taking you hunting too buddy.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

See this? This is what I was referring to in my earlier post directed at you, ABR. You're going to flood the thread with posts designed solely to push people into voting for you, and it's NOT a protown thing to do.

It is absolutely pro-town, because it is what I do as town. This is my game.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Lot of scum benefit than town, in getting players with lower activity lynched. As it generally means that town won't learn much.

I think that we've got my top scum pick as of now. Congratulations! That takes some work. It's a lurker saying that going after lurkers is anti-town unless I'm not seeing what they're saying. Care to help me out?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Klingoncelt, you know that the vote is for tomorrow, right?

We like you and what you've had to say. You should vote for us for Master of the Hunt for tomorrow to continue the bold experiment you're starting today (also be more bold today!)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

*nods* So you have no reason to scum hunt. Good defense.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Where is Cerb? Cerb what do you want to do about the huntmaster?

Do we have a consensus on lynching shadow?

Rampage

[Mixed6]

We should look into fire assassin and peregrineV.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

OH SHIT RANDOM WAIT I THINK I JUST FUCKING GOT IT!!!!

YOU PROBABLY ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE QUOTED STUFF!!!

Alright. Second test. Just from the quoted stuff, now that I understand the frame of reference(I fucked that up by not thinking things through). Eighth word from the beginning. The first one in my count from that position is "You're".

Go! Let's get this resolved!

-Cerb

What does it mean when wgeurts compared himself to DGB in saga? I know some players here including us three and klingon were in saga, but DGB was scum, so I'm not getting what he's hinting at or why he's so confident in a townreading our slot this game. Did wgeurts and you guess what role DGB was in saga and were wrong about it? Or is it a strategy she was adopting? I don't see how comparing himself to scum is helpful in any way but I'm glad for the huntmaster support.

[Mixed6]

Had Lillith posted yet? We need their huntmaster support too.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Are both dwlee and you townreading us or are you mainly driving the hydra wgeurts?

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Peregrine if you're not going to post then replace out.

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Had Lillith posted yet? We need their huntmaster support too.

Rampage

Uh yeah that's me. *waves*

I am not a fan of something that Zorblag said regarding RI so this does not have my support.

Imo the huntmaster discussion shouldn't be taking this much precedence over scumlynch so early, but uh. If I had to choose who I'd vote, I'd probably choose RI or possibly Sensei. I can't remember who else I'm townreading.. I've remembered why I try to avoid larges.

-Daenerys

Who is scum?

[Mixed6]

Who is scum?

Daenerys and Dragon the correct answer to this is; Him and his allies.

Ranger and wgeurts?

[Mixed6]

Cerb are you fucking dense or something?

[Mixed6]

Cerb did you have a theory about DGB before she flipped? Can you rub two brain cells together for a minute?

Rampage

[Mixed6]

Cerb you're too stupid for this game, you need to surrender your huntmaster vote to me.

[Mixed6]

Of course I am. This guy is dumb as rocks by his own admission.

[Mixed6]

Huntmaster vote please.

[Mixed6]

Huntmaster vote please.

The mechanical reasons for my slot being hunt master still exist. :-/

-Cerb

And we'll hear all about it in a party chat PT I'll organize for you.

[Mixed6]

I'm really disapointed in Cerb in this game. He thinks that softclaiming is the way to go for him. It's not. I want to shake him.

[Mixed6]

Dude why are you soft claiming? Are you trying to get killed?

[Mixed6]

And why the fuck are you rolefishing me?

[Mixed6]

This has gone from "CERB REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED IN SAGA"

To you not having a single clue about anything

To you softclaiming out of nowhere AFTER THE MOD SAYS CLAIMING IS ALWAYS BAD IN THIS GAME

To you blatantly asking me for my role information.

Go to hell.

[Mixed6]

We can move on after you vote for me you idiot savant.

[Mixed6]

You're not playing logically. A 12-year old who read what the mod said would be playing better than you right now.

He specifically said we shouldn't claim as it confers advantages to scum.

To me, you're throwing the game. Wtv you will be killed N1, and it will be for the good of the game.

[Mixed6]

Lynch almost50 and call it a day.

[Mixed6]

Lynch this with fire ^

[Mixed6]

652 is absolutely contentless mental theorycrafting. Wtf.

[Mixed6]

Is almost50 just bad at mafia or what?

[Mixed6]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

This is the real scum.

[Mixed6]

Better not announce formations. Keeps scum on their toes.

[Mixed6]

Yes

[Mixed6]

Which animes are good?

[Mixed6]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

This is the real scum.

Changed my mind. We both know this is a fake vote on a non-lynchable target, bc you KNOW I'm town and you're pushing hard, so.. let's just keep you there!

BOWBLADE: Mixed6

First of all, what's this bowblade crap. And second of all, how is he non-lynchable?

Attaboi

VOTE: Fire Assassin

mate, your attachment to the Mixed slot is starting to get to me. This is the DS slot of this game, and you're going after the EP slot I think!

How are we the DS slot? Zorblag is the nicest troll on this site and here to balance our slot. DS is a cute little puppy compared to me.

You realize you're in the top 3 scummiest people around, right?

[Mixed6]

OK, you're town, Almost50, I realize that now. Now let's work together to dismantle your wagon and move it towards someone we both agree is scummy.

[Mixed6]

You realize that when you hit submit, a preview comes up of any new posts you haven't seen. We need to collaborate and work together even if you don't trust me. Help me find my scumbuddies if you think I'm scum.

[Mixed6]

I've got like 5-6 people who are townreading me and telling you to stand down. It's foolish to say fire assassin is unlynchable, but that we can be lynched today. The opposite is true.

[Mixed6]

Can you not make 12 posts in one page Frozen

[Mixed6]

Have you played with Shinobi before?

[Mixed6]

Have you played with Shinobi before?

I guess so

but I don't remember his playstyle like at all.

Is this his usual meta?

~Rylai

I don't remember either.

[Mixed6]

Rylai says you're scum Shinobi. Others want to lynch shadow. I'm going to wait for Zorblag.

[Mixed6]

@Almost50, can your power target role names? If so, and if it works as you say, I can easily verify that I'm not the Orphan of Kos. Having said that, let's test to see if it works how you think and seem to be claiming it does, shall we?

Vote: Shadow_step

Now we need a vote count.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, without going into details, on a scale of 1 to 10 how certain are you that Randomidget it town at this time? I can guess it's high, but I'd like to know how high.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, thanks. That's slightly lower than I expected, but for the purposes of a base line, what's Yume on that same 1 - 10 scale?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Almost50, I could try some testing, but it's faster if you can tell me. Does your pinning ability pin Huntmaster Votes as well as you understand it?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, that's what I wanted. Good. That's enough to throw them into the town enough not to be interesting boat for today.

On an unrelated note, I wouldn't worry about Patches the Spider supporting you for Huntmaster were I in your position. No matter what the alignment of their master is, I think that we can assume we'll determine who it is eventually. Smart play for that player slot is to try to make moves that look like they are town when discovered later no matter what the alignment is, so there's not much reason to worry about it than there is a vote from anyone else that might be scum or town.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Cerb I'm far less toxic than the general level of toxicity on this site. Be nice.

[Mixed6]

Even Frozen is far more toxic than I am. Ya'll are player hating.

[Mixed6]

Even Frozen is far more toxic than I am. Ya'll are player hating.

what!?!

O.O

~Rylai

You freak the fuck out much more often than I do

[Mixed6]

Unhand me, you lout. Democracy demands it.

[Mixed6]

I'm not voting for you for the rest of the game, I know you're town.

[Mixed6]

You freak the fuck out much more often than I do

I'm not toxic anymore.

~Rylai

You got booted out of a game, that's far worst than me lol

[Mixed6]

You got booted out of a game, that's far worst than me lol

I got force replaced 4 times and mod killed 3 times.

I'm sorry for them but I'm not ashamed of my behavior becuase I beleive I did nothing wrong. I'm not going to emotional rage ever again.

~Rylai

Yes, you're much more toxic than I am. Cerb and randomidget have their own selective opinions about me that are far from objective. I'm not looking for their approval either.

@almost50 Use your ability in a pro-town way in later days. Stopping us from voting only gives scum more power and influence.

@shinobi Thanks!

[Mixed6]

Anyway Frozen I like you as a person and your play ever since you became enligthened lol. Convince almost50 to unhand us for me please?

[Mixed6]

Varsoon hello my friend

[Mixed6]

@Varsoon: Is that vote count correct? In particular regarding Reasonably Irrational on Patches the Spider?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Shinobi wgeurts ranger, please adminish almost50 for his unfair tampering with our voting freedom.

[Mixed6]

Admonish*

[Mixed6]

I'm not getting scumvibes from shinobi.

Plus his vote is in the right place.

Sensei talk to me about the game.

[Mixed6]

And on that note almost please let mixed6 have their vote back. Your hampering progress on lynching scumshadow right now for literally no reason.

What?

Almost has blocked Zorblag's vote on shadow. The sad thing is that I'm entirely positive Almost is town.

[Mixed6]

I'm not getting scumvibes from shinobi.

Plus his vote is in the right place.

Sensei talk to me about the game.

What do you want my thoughts on?

The strength of your reads and how they've progressed.

[Mixed6]

Fiiiire no :/ I am townreading ABR :/

is it because he said nice things about u

it's ok frozen angel. i too am frequently seduced by shouty men and their cunning ways.

After your tutoring session with professor Zorblag, how about you and I get together for a drink?

[Mixed6]

The strength of your reads and how they've progressed.

shadow's flipping scum - take that to the bank
xk might be scum
i saw something from bogre that set him back to nullish scum from scummy
some mehscum vibes from hastur

where are you at?

I've eliminated a handful of players as scum, including almost and cerb and elbirn. Working my way to expand that list and box the scum out.

[Mixed6]

varsoon

could you prod yume please possibly?

And Peregrine

[Mixed6]

and I'm dropping this conversation becuase you started being toxic.

thats what i do these days.

Dropping conversations that I'm uncomfortable with.

~Rylai

I've never said this before frozen... I'll never say it again so savor it... I'm proud of you.

[Mixed6]

Leave her alone FB, you're fired.

[Mixed6]

Out out out you toxic boy!

[Mixed6]

Nothing to talk about FB, she told you to stop being toxic and now you leave her alone, you're admonished!

[Mixed6]

Out out out you toxic boy!

Nothing to talk about FB, she told you to stop being toxic and now you leave her alone, you're admonished!

You are just making noise in this thread at this point.

When a woman tells you she wants to drop this conversation, try picking up the hint instead of embarassing yourself like you've done here.

[Mixed6]

and I'm dropping this conversation becuase you started being toxic.

thats what i do these days.

Dropping conversations that I'm uncomfortable with.

~Rylai

Hint hint FB.

She straight up said you're making her uncomfortable, why are you pressing on like her words don't matter to you?

Move on with your posts, go talk to another player or post about your reads. Zorblag is the teacher, but this is just uncomfortable for all of us to watch. You got my message loud and clear? Good, onto other subjects.

[Mixed6]

lmfao this game owns

Hi again. You didn't answer my question from before, I'm hurt.

[Mixed6]

Ignore the boys. I imagine they are kinda pushy in real life too, don't take no for an answer types. We hope they get some help, yes we do.

[Mixed6]

I dislike ranger's readslist, but I get the townread if you agree with his reads.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: mixed6
He's trolling at this point.

Good, your almost vote was on town. Much rather you vote for me where your heart is <3

[Mixed6]

If I've offended anybody, allow me to say this in my defense.

I can't help that my scumdar is more advanced than a potato.

[Mixed6]

That's why you're in a newbie game. In time, you will forge a scumdar people will marvel at.

[Mixed6]

I disavow you. Give me your potato, I'm taking it back.

[Mixed6]

Potato

[Mixed6]

FA you know nahdia from before or nah? Is she always like this?

[Mixed6]

I wonder why she's acting so different.

[Mixed6]

Nahdia what are your thoughts on almost50 stopping my slot from voting? Do you condemn it harshly?

[Mixed6]

#freethevote

[Mixed6]

@Daenerys and Dragons, Gee Willikers had indicated that it's primarily/entirely wgeurts at this point.

@Nahdia, Almost50 is almost certainly town pointed in the wrong direction. I have hope that we'll be able to get this sorted.

@Almost50, when you're coming up with this analysis are you assuming that scum can day talk, that they can't or that it's unclear?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

VOTE: Peregrine

Why are you nomming patches? That's scummy.

[Mixed6]

@Varsoon, that vote count has Mixed6 on both Fire Assassin and PeregrinV. Unless we've gained an ability that I'm unaware of, that should be just a vote for PeregrinV.

@Reasonably Irrational, we're tied at 4 votes a piece at this time. Our official stance is that we still want the votes on Mixed6, but let's let that be a background thing for a bit. We can talk when it gets closer to decision time if you don't mind.

@Almost50, that answer for the day talking was what I assumed given what you were saying. You should know (as should everyone,) that the first rule under Miscellaneous Rules is as follows:

Any and all anti-town factions in this game have day-chat.

I appreciate what you're trying to do with the analysis, but I think you're off on a few major things regarding this player slot. That rule is one of them. Albert B. Rampage's town play is another. I don't know if you've seen it before or not, but you're assuming an obvious rationale for his actions. There's often one hidden down there somewhere, but it's not typically obvious, doubly so if you don't know the play style.

I hate wasting time defending; I'd much rather be doing work coaxing out scum, but in this case I'm making an exception because you are going to be important to the town long term and it's going to be much easier down the road if you've got more trust in this player slot.

Your ability is one that's a huge help to the town and you were attempting to use it in the correct way. We actively want to keep scum off the lynch wagon in this game. The lynch, whether it's town or scum, gives everyone on the wagon some sort of reward. If we can identify someone scummy that's not the one we're going to lynch then we absolutely want you to use that ability on that player before they have a chance to join the wagon so that there's no way they can win those rewards. The plus side is that if scum know that's the case and they think you find them scummy, they need to potentially move more hastily than they would normally, somewhat increasing the chances of getting caught. With this in mind, Town should go out of their way to protect your role if they trust your judgement.

Before I go on, do you have any questions about any of that, or is there anything I can clear up that can help the two of us work together here?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Varsoon, thanks for the always quick and helpful responses!

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Klingons party being chosen rather than random is a pretty fucking big deal. It means we may only extend any analysis regarding that position to kling alone, and means there is a high probability that there is at least one scum within the current party. IF you give Klingon the benefit of assuming she's town, since it's arguable that giving scum the ability to be the entire party on the first day at least might be a bit much, then it's not as high, but there's still a decent chance.

Klingon, I would like your reads on your hunting party please, given that you selected them specifically for your ability to develop reads on them. Words about the reads too please, even if it's something that came from the PT, at least let us know that it's because of PT interactions.

-Cerb

There's not a lot happening in the PT right now, mostly 'hi, how's it going.' Mixed is my Townread, Shinobi and Almost are Townleaning Null.

So far.

I'll step in as a participant and add that we do have Almost50 trying to make the most use of the thread as a private chat area for game content. It's a good play regardless of alignment, but there are security issues I've shared with him about doing it there/how he was proposing. Klingoncelt shut down the possibly over-informative line of reasoning as well without giving her reasons for doing so. Doesn't change our current town read on Almost50, but it's more indication of effort for what that's worth to anyone.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

and I'm dropping this conversation becuase you started being toxic.

thats what i do these days.

Dropping conversations that I'm uncomfortable with.

~Rylai

That's scummy, though.

It wasn't a conversation that was going to lead to useful information and was just going to be filling the thread with things none of us needed to see. In this case it was the pro-town move.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

So for what it's worth, Albert B. Rampage had exactly that same reaction about the Huntmaster vote, but when you get down to it, it's probably too bold to be much of a scum motive. It's not going to make the Huntmaster choice happen and it draws attention in a negative way to the character. Scum could do it, but they don't have much incentive to. If there's something scummy about it it's that PeregrinV's posts and attention to the game (which are apparently precious given the rarity) are being used for that rather than finding scum.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Rylai and Lina, if there were any danger at all of Patches the Spider getting the Huntermaster position it would be a big deal. There's not. It's a screwball move, but not one that's going to go anywhere and definitely one likely to draw negative attention to the slot. I don't have any reason to think that PeregrinV is town based on the move, but it's not some sort of scum master plan.

@Nahdia, I've seen town do all sorts of stupid things that draw attention to them. It's almost a variant of the Zulfy self-vote gambit earlier this game. It doesn't make them town by any means (and perhaps we should think they're more likely to be scum,) but town aligned players will do it because people make bad choices.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Nahdia, Zulfy claimed he had a plan after the fact. We haven't seen the after the fact here. It's not a pro-town move and don't take this as defending it, but it's not really a good move for scum to make either.

I want to lynch scum, but I want to lynch scum for doing things that actually help scum and have a better chance of indicating alignment. In this case lack of content might be what that is for PeregrinV, but the Huntmaster vote is just frivolity.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Actually, you know what. I just thought of why I would vote Patches the Spider for Huntmaster that way were I town or scum. It's a bit unnecessary unless a given situation comes up, but I can see an alignment independent reason that I choose not to go into.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Rylai and Lina, I'm not intending a defense here so much as saying that what you're calling a scum tell isn't scummy for the reasons you're saying it is. There are still reasons the move is more scum motivated than town, and as I say, I can think of a reason to do it for either alignment that don't mitigate the scumminess of not playing the game and doing that instead.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

For anyone who's worried about what I'm talking about in post 1125, it's a variation of what I did as a third party player (but would have done as any alignment) in Pledge of Allegiance at some point in the game. It's probably not worth anyone's time looking through it, but for the truly curious, that's what I have in mind.

Bottom line, Albert B. Rampage has a strong scum read on PeregrinV so far as I know. I've got a minor scum read, but the Huntmaster Vote stunt doesn't contribute to it for me.

@Rylai and Lina, fair enough. I've said my piece about it and I'll be letting it go. Albert B. Rampage might be on to call me an idiot over this later, but you can deal with him when and if he does.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, it occurs to me as I'm three sheets to the wind that if you're scum playing mind games with us you've got real potential to ruin this town. More than I'd normally allow for one slot. Do me a favor and don't be scum, K? I'd like to have everything fall into place nicely and thrash out an easy win. You're a lynch-pin and I'll feel personally responsible if I've read you wrong.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Rylai and Lina, he has stated that ability, yes. Albert B. Rampage is right when he says that should never have been brought up. We should drop it now.

Additionally, or on the other hand, as appropriate, I'm drunk, but sometimes town play is town play. I've just asked him not to be scum and I'm hoping he's reasonable and rational enough despite the user name to comply. Because clearly that's how this works, right?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Rylai and Lina, is he? I don't get that so much. I don't see the making nice with everyone that you're describing. He has called for an end to toxicity, but I'm not going to fault anyone for that. Is he not digging at slots that deserve an excavation? Have I been blind to that? I don't think so, but if I have been blind to it it's not like I'd see that I had.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Klingoncelt, I hope that you check in once more before your V/LA, but why on Earth would you choose a Hydra with a head you've never played with (Zorblag) if you rejected Reasonably Irrational because one of the heads is known to be hard to read. I'm pretty sure we've got no experience together (unless you've been around for 4 years or so and I just don't recall the games,) so there shouldn't be any expectation that this half of this hydra was more readable than a player you have at least played a number of games with.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

I'm trying to encourage you to post posts with more weights and stop being so self centered.

and that was assuming you understood why I'm scumreading you.

~Rylai

[Mixed6]

Time for a post which everyone will hate because it's mostly theory talk. Enjoy!

Thanks for the response Cerb.

I don't really like that you've avoided saying anything about our play--but then, no one else has really commented on our play either. And I think my being skeeved out by your "playing devil's advocate" was compounded by my being skeeved out that apparently everyone is townreading us for claiming our votelessness thing.

Anyway, less weirded out now.

-Daenerys

This sentiment seems to have come up a couple times in various forms (and I'm going beyond the scope of the quote because I'm a bit too lazy to dig up other examples which would get at the other points I have to make.) Here it's concern that people haven't been commenting, but there have been a number of players concerned that Reasonably Irrational is being too friendly/obviously pro town. I lump both in the same category. If a player is acting pro-town day one (generating content, interacting with players, being friendly, putting effort into the game, etc ...) it's really not worth poking them too much. If they're town then they'll probably be night killed in the next couple days. If they're scum then they'll still be alive day 4 or so and you can start wondering about it then. Reasonably Irrational and Daenerys and Dragons both fit here for at least me. At this point they should be treated as town until there's a reason to think otherwise, or unless we've gotten to a game state where it's unreasonable to think that a universally respected player is still alive.

SO, here's the thing: I don't really see that I'm actually doing a lot of leading. It's more like when people who weren't talking very much popped up, I prompted them to give their opinions on the current events, basically, the thing that we had the most material to work with, so I could see where they were coming from I don't *think* I actually started any of those conversations, but I did try to get everyone's thoughts nailed down as much as I could. I do get what you're saying about the "not putting myself in a questionable position thing" but I think that's more an artifact of the current echo chamber of the game, rather than anything I'm trying to do. There's a fairly sizable "town bloc" growing, and everyone within that bloc seems to be suspicious of the same group of players...and everyone within that bloc also happens to be the more active posters. I'm not really getting a lot of well reasoned contradictory positions regarding shadow_step for example, and that makes it so we're all just sitting in a circle and nodding at one another. I was actually talking to Elbirn earlier today about how much that concerns me. I mean, it's possible that maybe we're just REALLY fucking in sync, and town is recognizing one another, and the scum just aren't blending in, but I'm super fucking scared that we're just all pointed in the wrong direction, so scum don't have to do anything to try to distract us. :-/

I don't want to derail this concern, and I think it's part of your push for Hastur and Muriel, but I want to know if you've thought about the following. In this game, given the mechanics involved, are scum more or less likely to bus than normal? There are two sub-cases to consider and we might be in either one depending on your point of view for this wagon/the wagons we're seeing today. This isn't a normal game and to some degree scum actions shouldn't follow normal patterns; there should either be heightened resistance to scum lynches or less depending on how much the scum team has thought things through. This actually relates to something else you said as well.

This game has too much low hanging fruit. Bogre, H&M, toog, pv, and now this new hydra. All apparently mislynch bait, either based on their past play, or simply because they're not giving anyone any reason to town read them.

This concerns me. They can't all be bad scum. :/

This isn't even the complete list in my opinion, but looking at those players and the apparent complacency of town in terms of rejecting (or more specifically failing to reject) some of the wagons makes more sense than it would in a standard game and might be less of a concern or more of a way to catch scum.

@Everyone, regarding the Hastur and Muriel posts and those that are giving town credit for them, my experience is that this should be the standard scum catch up play if they've let things ride and start to get pressure. Just toss out a bunch of analysis and make it seem like you're trying to catch scum now. It throws the initial heat off your track and gives you breathing space to do whatever it is you need to do as scum. There's very little cost (other than the effort it takes,) and it has an unreasonably large town-cred boost. This is especially true for players replacing in, but still applies to players who have let a game slide. Until there's actually some engagement in the game these should be taken as null, especially given the nigh-incomprehensible nature of the format they've been given in. In our hydra PT I've advocated for joining this bandwagon (which it sort of shocks me no one else has, but see my conversation with Reasonably Irrational a bit of why that might be the case,) but Albert B. Rampage has other plans which I choose not to get into in public.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Rylai and Lina, sadly he's otherwise occupied. He'll be back, but for now you're stuck with me.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Rylai and Lina, that's something that we choose not to discuss because scum don't need to hear it until we choose it. You should be voting us for Huntmaster and past that this isn't the time to talk about it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Albert B. Rampage has other plans which I choose not to get into in public.

I have the best plans.

[Mixed6]

@Rylai and Lina, in this game you should trust Albert B. Rampage though. You know his play and you know that as town he's going to be a force to be reckoned with. I don't mean to diminish your play, but you wouldn't have any chance of giving town the boost as Huntmaster that he would. We have a plan and it's an excellent plan. You should help us win this game for town.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Frozen are you ready to make Yharnam great again? Vote Mixed6 for master of the hunt.

[Mixed6]

@Fire Assassin, but weren't you a town leader? Shouldn't you be making good things happen somehow rather than falling into apathy?

Actually, as I'm addressing you, is Zulfy town or scum? I'm curious what you think of each other.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Actually, as I haven't really decided you're scum yet so much as noisy, I'm interested in what you have to say about Zulfy after looking at them. I have an opinion which is likely clear if you've read my posts, but they seem to not be brought up by others at all this game.

According to what you say, you definitely think you're here to help the town. If you actually are, work with me and care about the game, neh?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Fire Assassin, should town care about the game? Is apathy a null tell?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Fire Assassin, I think that Zulfy is showing something other than apathy. There's a fake attempt to scum hunt (their trap which they claim but then don't follow up on as they could) and then the whole follow up of they might attack us for being scum, but since we weren't yet calling them scum maybe they shouldn't. It's an OMGUS based theory that doesn't do anything to help town. They really haven't done anything to help town find scum, but rather they've simply reacted to what is said about them. It's not apathy, it's pure defensiveness, and it's engineered to elicity reaction.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Fire Assassin, they mostly aren't worth reading, but if you're just tossing him off as apathetic you should probably make sure that you think that's true having actually read them. Apathy is easy enough to fake (and not a town tell.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Requesting to Replace out.

I am replacing out because I like you, and I don't want to fight you.
And I am actually deeply hurt you said "I am done with you"
Its the exact words RC told me when he manipulated me in a game in order to vote with him.

I cried after that game.
I don't want to cry because of a stupid mafia game again.

Bye Felicia.

Don't be rude to players again or try to push them after repeatedly being told not to continue aggressing them. I'm fine with you scumreading Frozen, and you can easily make a case to other players in the game. Instead all you're doing is engaging Frozen, systematically breaking her down and then blaming her for your own nasty behavior. I want you to pay attention when you make someone uncomfortable, online or not. Pick up on the signs.

Good luck with your life.

Now GTFO of our game if you don't want to behave.

[Mixed6]

The greatest way to make me apathetic to this game is for any of my scumreads to win Huntsmaster vote.
Which is where this game is going.

I will likely just shut down from this game and become apathetic to it if that happens.

Your threats make you look weak.

[Mixed6]

Bogre and Patches are the only people with votes in a position to potentially be lynched that I am scum reading. Since no one wants to vote Patches, I'm switching to Bogre who has a greater chance of being lynched.

Why not vote a wagon with actual support? You're part of the reason why this game is stalling so much. You're the one in favor of more pages to read and no wagon momentum.

[Mixed6]

Why don't you make a list of 10 players you would vote.

Right now you want to vote an NPC and a guy nobody else wants to lynch.

[Mixed6]

I agree with ranger. If toog is apathetic town, he should help us get a majority to lynch. If he's scum, he won't help the town achieve this, banking on us becoming impatient and turning on each other. Let's observe him carefully.

[Mixed6]

This game is fucking dead. You're all contributing to it stalling. No excuses.

[Mixed6]

@Xkfyu, you've, um, got a lot of town reads it looks like from what you've posted. Do you even have top scum suspects at this point? I know that you're busy, but you're following closely enough get some reads. I don't think that we need you moving your vote like a madman, but at least getting it in play is probably handy.

@Almost50, like I said in 1567, Albert B. Rampage has plans. What we can work on now without throwing those out the window is getting other votes in places that either exist in some cases, or make more sense in others. It looks like you approve of that message at least?

@Daenerys and Dragons, I'd like it if people responded/commented on post 1567 as well. I put it out there for reasons, but it's not doing what I thought it would. Perhaps you'd care to start the process with thoughts of your own (or perhaps you want to see unbiased reactions from others first, which wouldn't help me here, but would be understandable I suppose.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Almost50, and yes, I might post from the wrong account more the more I drink, but I

VERY

rarely forget to sign my posts. If it's not signed it's from Albert B. Rampage. Years of playing on the Zorblag account have drilled that in. I'm more likely to double post the signature as I pre-edit posts than I am to leave the signature off.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Mixed:

(I suppose that was ABR in the last 3 posts?? Ok, regardless..)

Please reread your post #1657, the 2nd line of post #1661, and post #1665. Now please consider acting according along those lines yourself, cuz we both know Peregrine isn't happening today.

All my posts will be unsigned. All Zorblag posts will are signed.

Peregrine is a massive part of the problem.

[Mixed6]

Actually, since we're on the subject,

Mod, can we please get a prod on PeregrineV? It's been two days since the last post. Thanks!

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Klingoncelt, hmm, OK, I can live with that (especially given the chat I've had with Albert B. Rampage in my hydra PT.) If you think that Albert B. Rampage is an easy read you don't care about the partner, and if your'e comparing heads you can read as the decision making process you're going with any head being easy as the sort. I was just thrown off by your answer about Cerberusv666. In any case, hopefully you're enjoying your trip!

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Klingoncelt, right now the problem is that the game is stalling and momentum is grinding to a halt. That benefits scum in general. PeregrineV's failure to post is as large a contributor to that as any other player's. They need to produce content or they need to go. We need to be able to see players' actions to nail the scum here and PeregrineV is denying us that chance. Albert B. Rampage has reason to believe that this will be par for the course for that player, so they get particular attention.

@Liger_Zero, make sure to ask questions if you have any. Let's get you into the game and up to speed as quick as we can.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Actually, since we're on the subject,

Mod, can we please get a prod on PeregrineV? It's been two days since the last post. Thanks!

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

There is zero need for this.
Varsoon is a good enough mod to realise what he needs to do and what he doesn't.

I don't like so much concerned townie.

I would also like to near why are you scum reading Peregrine so much, just because he hasn't posted much or something else ?

Every fucking game all he does is lurk until day 4 and site meta is to let him coast, fuck that.

[Mixed6]

The nerds of this town are meek and flaccid. There's no push, no initiative.

[Mixed6]

Nerds are smart but they never agree on anything and we'll never get the lynch we need

[Mixed6]

I'm on the same page with Zorblag and am open to compromise further on lynches he hasn't mentioned. I believe that the stalling is more harmful than a potential mislynch at this point.

[Mixed6]

When only 1/3 of the game is active, you can't lynch anyone. We must coalesce around a lurker lynch. Do it.

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, the right lynch is the lynch of scum, obviously.

My theory post was too obtuse it seems. Here are some things for everyone to think about.

Scum probably don't treat wagons in this game as they normally would. When town lynches scum we gain insight which is directly useful for determining, among other things, how much scum is left in the game. Insight gives town ways to catch up with the information advantage that scum start the game with. Scum really don't want their partners to get lynched, so that bit Reasonably Irrational said earlier isn't good scum play this game. This bit:

It's quite important to consider the angle of me introducing a counterwagon. Why in the world would I bother? Unless Shinobi is scum with myself and shadow_step, it's very easy to just push shinobi over shadow_step. I could just claim to have been appeased by him responses, and go after shinobi. Done. *shrug* I think that were I in your position, taking this particular line wouldn't make sense from scum me (

and this goes without considering that I let shitty scummates hang themselves, not worth it to sacrifice my position if the other person can't be bothered to play well, but you have no reason to know that

) over the easier option of pushing someone who actually *does* have content which is scummy. Town playing bad counter wagon is a much easier one to push than a pure lurker one, ESPECIALLY when there are a bunch of pure lurkers in the game...it means you get questioned on WHY you're going after this person in particular.

I'm including the entire paragraph for reference, but that bolded bit would be sound scum play most games, but much less sound scum play this game. Scum, if they're playing well, should either be trying much harder than normal to avoid any scum getting lynched, or, if they think that they've got a partner who is going to get lynched they should pile on and take as many slots on that wagon is possible to avoid the town players getting the insight. Our normal approach to scum and wagons and how we expect them to play relative to each other doesn't apply this game the way we're used to and we should take that into account when looking at motives for votes moving.

@Nahdia, in other news, votes shouldn't necessarily always be on the person a player finds scummy. They're a tool that every player has and they can make various things happen. It looks like you're more or less satisfied by Reasonably Irrational's explanation, but my hydra PT has somewhat similar complaints about the game stalling due to inactive players (you'll notice that the term stall has slipped into some of our posts.) This is the point in the first day when we need to get some pressure to get the players we haven't heard from to offer some content before we get around to the appropriate lynch at the end of the day. Starting wagons on particular players for largely lack of contribution helps keep the game alive and is pro-town (the easy scum is to let the stall continue and just drift into an apathetic end of the first day.)

@Daenerys and Dragons, I'm going to press forward. I assume that part of what you wanted people to comment on was what I said to you. It was less coherent than it might have been were I more sober, but I'll say it again clearly. Town players that act friendly and overly pro-town are not who we should be worried about day one (or two, or probably three.) The thing to keep in mind is that even if scum had a reason to act that way (they can go that route, though it's usually much easier just to play a lower profile game and kill off the threats at night,) town definitely has reason as well. I'm not saying that you should give auto-town reads to those that are helpful, but wasting too much time on that sort of suspicion early day detracts from going after players who are actually acting scummy (i.e. making moves without the obvious pro-town motives.) If memory serves, you're more worried about Reasonably Irrational than is worth it given the state of the game. I don't think you're tunneling, but I do think that paranoia is far better for you as the game goes on a player in that sort of position hasn't been killed.

If there was something else that I went into with my post that you were having more issue with I'll let you talk to me or others about it when you'd like.

@PeregrineV, congratulations, you posted! I really don't like to see you say you'll wait to see a list promised by someone else as the end of post that adds almost nothing to the game. We're all waiting for you to be here and do something.

@Shadow_step, you really seem to like lurking on the part of others in this game for some reason. Now you're opposed to prod requests that notify lurking players that their absence is being felt slightly faster (which is what I take Varsoon's rule set to be used for.) We know what the deadlines would be and if we want to get enough posts to have enough information to make informed decisions we need to use the rules to try to get that.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, sorry to be a bit obtuse again, but right now Albert B. Rampage says that we should lynch PeregrineV.

I think that all but two of his scum reads are pretty obvious ones that the town knows about. Shadow_step would be fine. Shinobi is OK (slightly worse due to the fact that they're in the hunting party for tonight, but on future days they go up again.) PeregrineV is a good choice as is Hatur and Muriel. We don't have any reason to like Bogre at this point, so we'd probably end up on their wagon without too much resistance. There might be others I'm not thinking of and we've got a couple that town isn't pointing to yet that will be better lynches in the future. We will be using various tools (including the free night PM) to make sure that knowledge isn't lost in case we are. Beyond that I'll let Albert B. Rampage specify things if he wants to. If he wants to call for people to sheep a particular read that he hasn't said explicitly yet I'll let him do it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

Frozen and Nahdia, I'm putting you in charge of putting together a list of the players who are not pulling their weight in terms of activity in this game. I will go through both your lists and tell you which one I want lynched and will drive that wagon. Cerb will follow my lead and then the rest of the town will fall in line or be destroyed. I will be voted master of the hunt, we will lynch scum, and go to night.

Let's get to it.

[Mixed6]

Umm, it's a pretty obvious lis ABR?

I get the feeling that both their lists will be different; therefore, it's not as obvious as you think.

[Mixed6]

Cerb, let me be clear, I don't want you to make a list. Nahdia has given hers and now I am looking forward to Frozen's.

[Mixed6]

@Nahdia, you're not prime hunting party material at this time, sorry. Also, see my comments to Daenerys and Dragons; catching scum acting too towny day 1 isn't worth it. Do that come day 4 if they're still alive. For now remember that if Reasonably Irrational is town (random role selection makes that more likely than not,) he's got at least as much motive to do what he's been doing as scum fooling us all.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Nahdia, reasons. You will have a role in the upcoming overwhelming town slaughter of scum though, have no fear! I'm not even trying to hide a threat in that statement (though now that I've seen it typed out it looks like I might have been.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

I think Rylai is just trolling me at this point.

Rylai works for me. If you, or anybody else, has a problem with her, they have a problem with me. We don't want problems. That's why we're going to have nice conversation until Frozen submits her list. Then we will all play nice and vote for who I decide, knocking two birds with one stone, the inactivity problem and the scumhunting question.

[Mixed6]

We are all waiting for your list.

[Mixed6]

Aaand, SCENE!

Now that we're done with that the two of you can never get into it again unless you're actually using it to make a case for the game and the game can move on.

Albert B. Rampage will be by later to examine the list of players not pulling their weight from Nahdia and Rylai and Lina and lead us all to a glorious scum lynch. (As an aside from the Troll head, Rylai and Lina, was that what you meant to post as a list of those not pulling their weight? It looks like something else to me.) For now this Troll will head off to his cave for a good night's sleep.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

We are all waiting for your list.

As it stands I am ok with a lynch on Bogre , Shadow and Fire assassin slot but I want to see his replacement activity.

~Rylai

I'm not asking for your lynch pool. Read what I said. All you do is spam the thread, and you miss key posts directed at you, while blaming others of the same. I asked for the list of players you consider below the acceptable activity line.

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, that's not the moving on that the game should be doing now. I'm not currently judging anything that either of you said to determine alignments; it's not useful to me for this lynch, and if I need it later I'll look at it then. If you want to make a point to me, make it about Hastur and Muriel (who, incidentally, seem to have been on today, but not posting.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

After reviewing both lists, I like both Peregrine and Bogre for lynches today.

VOTE: Bogre

Let's get this done.

[Mixed6]

Good work, Cerb.

Ranger, Hastur, drop a vote on Bogre if not already done.

[Mixed6]

Hopefully we'll get an official count soon, but here's how I have it.

Rylai and Lina (5): toogeloo, Almost50, Rylai and Lina, Nahdia, Shadow_Step
Mixed6 (4): Mixed6, Gee Willikers, Ranger, Shinobi
Reasonably Irrational (4): Reasonably Irrational, Patches the Spider, Daenerys and Dragons, Liger_Zero
randomidget (1): randomidget

Fire assassin was on randomidget prior to the exit.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irresponsible, don't worry, you're not alone. I just had to get a fussy baby to take a nap. Your concerns about the hunt are timely, but I think that I've got a better way to take care of them than unvoting.

@Almost50, could I talk you into moving your vote to Mixed6 for the huntmaster, please? Like I said earlier, there's an excellent plan in place if we do this right and I'd like to stop this distraction going on in the main thread.

@Rylai and Lina, how good is your judgement of town play? Is it better than Albert B. Rampages? You don't know mine at this point, so I won't ask you to factor that in.

@Liger_Zero, it's an unusual spot to come into day one. We're past the garbage opening, the content rich stretch, and just towards the end of the stall. Now's when the wagons move quickly as there's been a chance for everyone to get their feel for the game and know which way they might want to jump. I can see being concerned by it, but it's less of an issue right now than it would be at other times.

@Everyone, clearly no one is going to hammer until we've reached the right choice for the Huntmaster, right? I shouldn't even have to say this, but let's make sure that we're all on the same page.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Reasonably Irrational, you have me at godtier town read right now. I know you've got good judgment and didn't have to ask.

@Rylai and Lina, for this particular decision is the town hunting that's much more important. It's actually what puts the town into the information advantage range over scum which is crazy powerful. Keep that in mind when making decisions. We're not here to do cool exciting things. We're here to grind scum into nothing. The cool and exciting things just happen along the way.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Rylai and Lina, I don't mean to be saying that you're the wrong choice. I mean to be saying that Mixed6 is the right one.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Varsoon, thanks for the vote count! It mostly matches what I thought it would though you have Reasonably Irrational listed in the Huntmaster vote twice on their own wagon. The second instance should be Liger_Zero unless there's a crazy mechanic at work.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

@Rylai and Lina, speaking out of game, taking a break does sound like a good idea now. This doesn't have to end badly, but you sound flustered right now and I don't think your head is where you want it to be. There's nothing happening here that won't keep for a while while you do something less bothersome. Your call of course, but stay good.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

town needs guidence not leading. why we lost saga to you guys? for town leaders who started arguing with eachother. instead they could start trying to understand eachother. thats what i'm going to do if I get that title. I will make a town block but I won't force my opinions in game.

This is such bullshit. Titus wasn't a town leader, in fact, nobody was listening to her even though she was mod confirmed town. The reason nobody followed her was because she was stupid and wrong, while Yosarian and I were doing all the heavy lifting to catch the scum. We eventually caught all of the scum (every single one, including Cerb), but lost mechanically due to an interpretation of my role PM that the mod didn't clarify, and also Titus who tunneled on me from day 1 all the way to endgame. Otherwise, that game was a slam dunk. Ah yes and Zulfy fucked up and killed my motivation for that game when he went for gladiator on me while I was travelling.

ABR was spot on the entire game, on almost everything. His plans were blown by a group of people who didn't think stuff through, which me and cerb took for granted.

Thank you.

Scum are voting me because its convenient for them.

Vote for Bogre then.

My points stands. Arrogance of town members lost that game and that was literally all of their faults.

Not letting the same happen here again.

Cerb is completely right about you. You have bad judgment. You're riddled with confirmation bias. And the way you understand the game is plain wrong. Mark my words, you should never be the huntmaster. Despite all of that, I do think that you're more likely town than scum.

[Mixed6]

Just for the record, btw, I think you, like many people, get lucky and tend to remember your successes more than your failures. This is a pet theory of yours, the idea that your playstyle is unique and SUPER DUPER EFFECTIVE, and your recollection of past events supports that.

This statement about Frozen is one of the truest in the game, and the reason why she should not be the huntmaster.

[Mixed6]

We're at like L-5. We need more votes. What do you mean, you will hammer later during the day? Do you get more powers from hammering like Skybird in SAGA? Listen, I somewhat trust your alignment to be town, I don't think you have very good judgment. Deal with it.

[Mixed6]

This is such bullshit. Titus wasn't a town leader, in fact, nobody was listening to her even though she was mod confirmed town. The reason nobody followed her was because she was stupid and wrong, while Yosarian and I were doing all the heavy lifting to catch the scum. We eventually caught all of the scum (every single one, including Cerb), but lost mechanically due to an interpretation of my role PM that the mod didn't clarify, and also Titus who tunneled on me from day 1 all the way to endgame. Otherwise, that game was a slam dunk. Ah yes and Zulfy fucked up and killed my motivation for that game when he went for gladiator on me while I was travelling.

and I found cerb, not you. just reminding you of that. and you instead of listening to me pushed a lynch on my slot which is the main reason that game is lost (you lost a full day and night for that mislynch)

Stop being so arrogant. we all win together. or we will all loose together - talking assuming I'm right about you being town

~Rylai

If it was a normal game without crazy mechanics where you can kill 5 players at once, Cerb was getting lynched right after Klingon. That game was a slam dunk. I lead the town very adeptly until Zulfy made me lose all interest in the game while I was travelling, and I didn't stay invested in the game after that point. You're the one who is praising yourself too highly. I've stopped campaigning for Hunt Master in the main thread. I keep it to the party PT. You're the one trying to assert your dominance, and it's not going to work, because we don't trust your judgment.

[Mixed6]

@almost50 let's get your vote on Bogre. I want this game to move forward.

[Mixed6]

We're at like L-5. We need more votes. What do you mean, you will hammer later during the day? Do you get more powers from hammering like Skybird in SAGA? Listen, I somewhat trust your alignment to be town, I don't think you have very good judgment. Deal with it.

no

I won't get anything spescial from hammering and the bloodletter has no reflection on my vote. its something else that i have no indication to explain.

~Rylai

Then just vote for Bogre later today (Tuesday). There's no need to wait to hammer him.

[Mixed6]

what exactly do you guys mean when u keep saying u don't "trust R&L's judgement"?

She has bad judgment.

[Mixed6]

Shiro is a lot more grounded and successful, but Frozen is the dominant personality in that hydra. That's why most of this town is not ready to support their candidacy.

[Mixed6]

pedit : their calling me stupid in a very nicer way to don't make me angry.

You're not stupid. You play well. I also know when you get totally off course. Remember when you started trying to lynch me in SAGA because you thought I was lying about information I had about my rune? Shiro kept telling you to back off, but you wouldn't listen to him, or anyone. That's why I say you are the dominant personality, and one of the many instances where you've demonstrated bad judgment.

[Mixed6]

You get focused on tiny little things that don't matter and let those dictate how you should make decisions, ignoring the broader context and evidence. I don't trust you to make the right decision for town.

[Mixed6]

You fucked up in a bad way, and try to blame the loss on others. That's not taking responsibility, that's not leadership. You make a nice speech about cooperation, but are you able to put your ego aside? We will see. I want to talk about more productive things now.

[Mixed6]

Let's see when Bogre and Zulfy come back and what they have to say.

[Mixed6]

Will discuss something I noticed with Albert B. Rampage before we see a hammer, but I'm prepared for the flip of Bogre if he is today's lynch.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mixed6]

UNVOTE:

-Zorblag R`Lyeh