BLOODBORNE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[PeregrineV]

OK, back from "Vacation".

Will read and vote the scums tonight.

[PeregrineV]

FA is "relaying" some town vibes to me, albeit still weak ones.
Cerb is "reasonably" town by now.
I'm "clinging" to a town read on Kling as well.
I want to lean to town on Cakez, but I just can't bring myself to fully trust you, "Sir".
Nothing "Xtremely" off about Xf either.
I'm leaning town on Zulfy, but I'm unable of coming up with a pun for him.
And Ranger is also in my town "range".

Still not sure whom I would want to lynch, but I think this is a fair bet (considering it can't be changed, so it has to be someone I'm fairly reading TOWN, and I hope I'm not being irrational here.)

HUNTMASTER VOTE: Reasonably Irrational

You think Kling is town, and he hasn't even hunted yet. Why switch huntmasters, and why is Reasonably Irrational not included in your reads post prior to your voting him tomorrows Huntmaster?

[PeregrineV]

I think RVS is stupid so I won't be participating, but A50's reason for not participating is a bit paranoid, at this stage. We're looking at a threshold of 12 to lynch(Also, so, Patches the Spider. Did nobody else notice that there's an extra player in the game? Any thoughts beyond the obvious but potentially misleading one?), and all the things that we are *aware of* that involve large numbers of votes require time and echoes to purchase.

...Oh, a hunter of beasts, are you? Glory be. You know not the value you possess.

I dunno of I trust you mate. A bird told me you have a tendency to throw people into pits.

Vote:Patches

Testing if we can actually target this fella with votes.

Why?

[PeregrineV]

<Wondering if Daenrys and dragons has a regular vote at all>

[PeregrineV]

Stopping at page 17.

Vote: Randommidget

Huntmaster Vote: Patches the Spider

[PeregrineV]

We do not! We do have a Huntmaster vote though.

I will have to think about what I think about this.

[PeregrineV]

Huntmaster Vote: Patches the Spider

?????¿¿¿¿¿

-Dragons

If people want to lynch an extra vote, why not let the extra vote lead the descent into the depths of the earth?

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Peregrine

Why are you nomming patches? That's scummy because

It looks like you got cut off.

Frankly, I'm more likely to see what comes from the current Kling-led thing before I worry about who would be best in the role.

[PeregrineV]

FA is "relaying" some town vibes to me, albeit still weak ones.
Cerb is "reasonably" town by now.
I'm "clinging" to a town read on Kling as well.
I want to lean to town on Cakez, but I just can't bring myself to fully trust you, "Sir".
Nothing "Xtremely" off about Xf either.
I'm leaning town on Zulfy, but I'm unable of coming up with a pun for him.
And Ranger is also in my town "range".

Still not sure whom I would want to lynch, but I think this is a fair bet (considering it can't be changed, so it has to be someone I'm fairly reading TOWN, and I hope I'm not being irrational here.)

HUNTMASTER VOTE: Reasonably Irrational

You think Kling is town, and he hasn't even hunted yet. Why switch huntmasters, and why is Reasonably Irrational not included in your reads post prior to your voting him tomorrows Huntmaster?

Um ..erm.. Cerb IS one head of RI, hence the pun?!?!

As for KC, I have explained later. Even if she IS town, I dislike the composition of her party. I've also moved my vote off RI for the huntmaster bc I don't like their proposed composition of the party either.

I thought you were on the hunt team, or whatever. Do you not want to be?

[PeregrineV]

I chose the current Hunting Party out of those players that I know fairly well and can get a half-decent read of.

I don't know why they don't choose me.

Klingon, you chose the current party? It wasn't rng'd at game start?


-Elbirn

I was told to pick my Party on Night 0. Not much better than rng, I had no clue whatsoever as to their alignments before the game started. I still don't, actually.

sorry if I missed it, but on what basis DID you pick your group?

[PeregrineV]

So the thing that occurred to me is that you want to put a scummy slot on purpose in that slot?

read the part of setup about Huntman thing again pregeineV , because if you think that might be a trap , I disagree.

~Rylai

I don't see how the slot is scummy. it seems more like a game mechanic.

We, my Master and I as a collective, are in essence a modified double voter

Based on that, why does anyone want to "lynch" an extra vote? If we want to hang it, why not let it be in charge?

I don't think it's a trap, per se. I did read this though

Certain events in the Chalice Dungeons will affect different members of the LineUp.
The Chalice Dungeon will feature role-play heavy events, complete with a boss encounter.
The events in the Chalice Dungeons will always happen regardless of the role-play flavor.

The events in the Chalice Dungeons will always be detrimental to the players involved

.

I know detrimental means bad.

[PeregrineV]

@Varsoon, that vote count has Mixed6 on both Fire Assassin and PeregrinV. Unless we've gained an ability that I'm unaware of, that should be just a vote for PeregrinV.

Nuh-uh.
(It should be fixed now.)

Also, unless Mixed6 spiked my punch, I'm voting SomeRandomMidget (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p7950190).

[PeregrineV]

@Varsoon, that vote count has Mixed6 on both Fire Assassin and PeregrinV. Unless we've gained an ability that I'm unaware of, that should be just a vote for PeregrinV.

Nuh-uh.
(It should be fixed now.)

Also, unless Mixed6 spiked my punch, I'm voting SomeRandomMidget (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p7950190).

Also my vote for Patches for prez.

[PeregrineV]

There are certain prizes that the involved party receive, and those are extremely important.

there might be traps and the team need to have a good line up and be careful while advancing but that doesn't mean sending an alt slot who we don't know anything about and we won't know anything about sinsce whoever is controlling it will control their main account and won't start a hypocritical mess in the game or we will lynch their alt.

you are saying that we use that slot as a bait in adventuring , I'm saying thats extremely dangerous and might count as game throwing in some situations dependent on the prizes.

~Rylai

Since you seem to be here, and thinking, What are your reads on the Huntmaster Kling and her crew?

[PeregrineV]

nothing with value sinsce she chose them N0 but thats a weird team combination that she claim they are easily readable.

and kling being huntmaster can be either alignment thing so not so much info with that.

~Rylai

Yes, but if Kling were scum, does she fill her team with scum? Does she fill it with town?

[PeregrineV]

Short day today, but I learned a lot!

[PeregrineV]

Klingons party being chosen rather than random is a pretty fucking big deal. It means we may only extend any analysis regarding that position to kling alone, and means there is a high probability that there is at least one scum within the current party. IF you give Klingon the benefit of assuming she's town, since it's arguable that giving scum the ability to be the entire party on the first day at least might be a bit much, then it's not as high, but there's still a decent chance.

Klingon, I would like your reads on your hunting party please, given that you selected them specifically for your ability to develop reads on them. Words about the reads too please, even if it's something that came from the PT, at least let us know that it's because of PT interactions.

-Cerb

There's not a lot happening in the PT right now, mostly 'hi, how's it going.' Mixed is my Townread, Shinobi and Almost are Townleaning Null.

So far.

@KC why you brought Almost50 , Shinobi and mixed? write 1 sentence about each one please

~Rylai

They are among the players that I know and can get a decent read on. You and Fire were also on my shortlist, btw, and Ranger was too.

I chose the current Hunting Party out of those players that I know fairly well and can get a half-decent read of.

I don't know why they don't choose me.

Klingon, you chose the current party? It wasn't rng'd at game start?


-Elbirn

I was told to pick my Party on Night 0. Not much better than rng, I had no clue whatsoever as to their alignments before the game started. I still don't, actually.

sorry if I missed it, but on what basis DID you pick your group?

Players that I know and can read.

I guess this kind of answers my question.

Will wait to see the promised list.

[PeregrineV]

Ummm is there something there I am supposed to see is obvious need of explanation?

that was the only stance you took in game and it was defending Bogre who turned scum.

I like to know your thought process about them.

~Rylai

I went 2 pages past, but I think it's clear R&L was asking about your Bogre stance. What was the source of it? Why did you think the way you thought about him? Stuff like that.

[PeregrineV]

I wasn't told who it was, it could have been scum as well. Look at it from my angle. I only know my alignment, why should I just choose to die in that situation?

You outed that I'm the one who gave you the choices without hesitation today. Why in earth would you do that if you don'tn know my alignment?

You want to survive this or win? Nah your not town and your choice make no sense as town you.

pedit : when did you recive the choice options?

~Rylai

Your ability gives the target a choice of accepting death?

Seems like a pretty dumb vig ability.

[PeregrineV]

Nobody vote. We still need to hear from Zulfy, Xkyfu, Klingon, and Peregrine.

Curious how the dungeon thing went last night.

And why the change from Shinobi if he helped last night succeed?

[PeregrineV]

Since I'm not sure I'll be back until Monday or Tuesday, my thoughts:

R&L is probably town. Bad logic to think town would accept death vs gladiate. It makes no sense unless they are an extreme negative utility role. And even then.

Either way, I suppose my vote would be for Shadow step, but I think he's probably town too. But if R&L can kill him at any time, he should probably full claim and then we can decide the lynch or shoot for a NL.

I think tonights dungeon will be a success, but want to hear why a successful hunt team was changed.

(Although, Shinobi, I get it in terms of the fact I think you are scummier than Ranger, but logic would dictate current success should equal future success).

Ranger, You seemed to have a lot more to say day1. Why less talkative now with more info?

That's all for now.

[PeregrineV]

You're telling me that R&L can vig someone, but the target can say no and force a gladiate, but then R&L can kill them anyway?

The point would be what the fuck, exactly?

She's blustering because she doesn't want anyone to vote her.

Disclaimer, on the off chance I'm wrong I don't think I want anyone to push her over the edge, so stay your votes for now bros. Just yeah, she's lying.

That's irrational. In a game with mechanics everyhwere, why not give the questing vig or whatever a 1-shot fuck-you-anyway kill were someone select to gldiate? Or 2 shot? or whatever?

Your logic is as bad as R&L with "only scum choose to live".

[PeregrineV]

Did you know that would happen Almost?

Spider Vote: Shinobi

-Dragons

Wasn't sure. I said I "think" I could, but it would be "for a price".

Why did you push for a no lynch and then kill R&L?

[PeregrineV]

Ranger, You seemed to have a lot more to say day1. Why less talkative now with more info?

Because I have a relatively safe spot to share it with.

There is a slight risk of prying eyes thanks to the darn monocle item being bought, but otherwise, I can share a lot of thoughts with strong townreads.

The further we go into the game, the more effort I will be giving. On D1, it was low effort everywhere. Here on D2, still low effort in-thread albeit not quite as little, with some amount of effort private but not as much as I theoretically could. That level will increase each day. Maybe D3, maybe D4, probably before D5 but you never know, depends on how many players we have left (the fewer, the easier), but around then I'll be giving a lot more to the game.

OK.

Vote: Liger

[PeregrineV]

You're telling me that R&L can vig someone, but the target can say no and force a gladiate, but then R&L can kill them anyway?

The point would be what the fuck, exactly?

She's blustering because she doesn't want anyone to vote her.

Disclaimer, on the off chance I'm wrong I don't think I want anyone to push her over the edge, so stay your votes for now bros. Just yeah, she's lying.

That's irrational. In a game with mechanics everyhwere, why not give the questing vig or whatever a 1-shot fuck-you-anyway kill were someone select to gldiate? Or 2 shot? or whatever?

Your logic is as bad as R&L with "only scum choose to live".

You're telling me that R&L can vig someone, but the target can say no and force a gladiate, but then R&L can kill them anyway?

The point would be what the fuck, exactly?

She's blustering because she doesn't want anyone to vote her.

Disclaimer, on the off chance I'm wrong I don't think I want anyone to push her over the edge, so stay your votes for now bros. Just yeah, she's lying.

This logic sucks considering what she's claiming is provable.

-Dragons

Quoting this so I can tell both of you to go fuck yourself when R&L flips ^3^

-Elbirn

Live the delusion, man!!

[PeregrineV]

On 113. I'll have to come back later, spent too much time on other games already.

[PeregrineV]

I don't want to disclose the information publicly.
Rn I'm trying to learn how to do the dungeon things, I'm gonna read up on it.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but why did you pick

your

hunting team?

[PeregrineV]

Scum is obviously desperate to lynch RI, so they're probably going to target them tonight if the lynch fails.

Considering huntmaster votes CANNOT be changed, take that into consideration before plopping down a vote.

Welcome!

Did your negative utility thing disappear yet?

[PeregrineV]

he uh.

he says you're being less helping than at least a pear was trying to.

i guess that probably makes some amount of sense to u.

Tell him Saturday, 1111, Frozen Pizza, and dark blue with yellow polka dots.

I'll await your response.

[PeregrineV]

It was a message I know wasn't actually from them. I know because reasons.

Did Mixed6 respond to my message to them?

[PeregrineV]

A note about Liger as well: A decent portion of the strength of my belief in town!Liger comes from the simple fact that there was no reason to send a message to someone he was going to kill. It's...such an incredible longshot, because he has no reason to assume Mixed6 would be able to communicate that fact after death, other than through his messages, and his message would surely not be a significant enough point to comment on in such a message.

Why not? If he's scum, his kill target (who can still communicate after death) is as good a message recipient as anyone else.

I disagree with this conclusion.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Liger_Zero

[PeregrineV]

Back. Happy Monday. Will catch up over the next few days.

[PeregrineV]

Monday post, back later.

[PeregrineV]

House is a fucking moron. Can everyone post theirr top 3 scumreads? I'm going to ISO a few people before I do.

Sure.

Randommidget
Toogeloo
Klingon
Shinobi

Vote: Toogeloo

Huntmaster vote: Reasonably Irrational

[PeregrineV]

Some thoughts:

Many of you have voiced your frustration with this game. I apologize for how poorly it turned out. In a way, I crafted the madness of the Hunt too well--Nights were long and torturous and when it came time for a lynch to happen, it was swift and harrowing. Power went unchecked until it was too much of a problem, and all of the players were forced to play under very strenuous conditions. In the end, it came out to a worthless slugfest despite all the intrigue and machinations of madmen.

So, in some ways, this setup was a success. I even drove myself up a wall.

In many other ways, this setup absolutely failed.

Items like Pebble, Blood Cocktail, Numbing Mist, Shaman Bone Blade, and so on were integral to how I expected players to play and, yet, no one took advantage of them. Entire roles had no functionality due to players not understanding their role, never taking an action, or simply not playing the game. Scum was allowed full reign to build up their own power to the point that town could not counter it right out.

Nightmare Events were one of the most exciting mechanics I developed for this game. I was very excited to put together a system of mass-invited PTs in which the host of the PT could cause flavor events to happen that would render fun and interesting mechanical results. I think, what? There was one nightmare event played this entire game? I remember thinking about it and being really upset that I designed a mechanic that I would really enjoy, but nobody else cared about.

I won't be using shops in my future games. I like the idea of role progression just as much as I like the idea of publicly known powers (this is the appeal of smalltown games, too). The problem is that players are affected too much by it. That was sort of the goal here, and, I suppose, it did have the effects I desired, but it was far too stressful for many players. The problem with having a system of public powers is twofold, really:
1. Rhetorically Strong players will police who gets what. I absolutely hated that Mixed6 was trying to dictate who could buy which items. Being told that you'll be scumread if you get an item you want inhibits the fun of the game in a lot of ways, I feel. No longer can people enjoy the mechanic, because it's not an option for them to fully embrace it.
2. Mechanically Weak players will not realize how to use the mechanic at all. Once again, I think numbing mist was used successfully once this game? Furthermore, only a single blood vial was used to prevent a kill, and it did not work given the kill was a strongman shot.

I sincerely apologize for how horrible and stressful this game became. I felt it more than anyone. Since day one, I was upset with how things had turned out due to players either not playing at all or playing in ways contrary to the design of the game. I figured that I couldn't let myself get too hung up on players not playing the way I wanted, though. What really got to me was the amount of people decrying the setup entirely, while others still didn't care to play at all. I felt as though I had failed everyone who signed up for this game--the mechanics did not get utilized, no one seemed to care, and the most feedback I got was very negative. I designed a game I would be incredibly excited to be a part of, put more time into it than any other game I (or maybe anyone else) has made, and it was an absolute failure on many fronts. Couple this with moving to a new town, being unable to find a job, going through a breakup, and several other personal issues and I dreaded coming back to this site just to unlock the game thread, post some flavor, and watch the game I put so much time, love, and effort into continue to spiral down the drain.

There was a moment where I genuinely wanted to end the game early.

There was a moment where I considered never moderating another game again, given how momentous a failure this game was for myself and for many involved.

That said, I respect you all far too much. I was not going to cut the game short on account of my own misgivings or stress. Despite the large amount of moderator errors and mistakes made, I kept telling myself that I would not abandon the game because these players deserved it played out to the end. This was a learning experience. My next theme game will be much more mechanically terse, but I hope to deliver an exciting setup that gets players engaged with both the game and the flavor. You're some of my favorite people online and I love this site. I'm not going to give up on you just because things turn out poorly.

Feel free to offer criticism, your thoughts, reactions, etc. If you want to insult me for any reason, I will not keep you from doing so. I know many people are crossing this finish line frustrated, bruised, and angry. I do ask that you keep insults of other players to a minimum, though.

Thank you for playing, everyone.
I hope that you enjoyed this game. Tell me what worked for you and I'll try to incorporate it into my next game if I can.
For those of you that did not, let me know why. I'd love to make a better game next time.

Until then,
Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good.

You did an awesome job, and this was an awesome game. I would worry less about the fact you made mistakes, and correct for them, making your game next even better. (See Marketplace Mafia I, Maketplace Mafia II, Marketplace Mafia 3, War In Heaven I, War In Heaven II, War in Heaven III).

You can probably make some adjustments and run a sequel to this. If you do, /pre-in.

Anyone that wants to complain about the mechanics can go fly a kite, given it was all presented in the signup (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7926083).

For my part, I could have done more trying to understand and buy stuff, but my role seemed to be a doctor of sorts, but my targets kept dying, even when I sent messages as to the goodness of my bloodjuice. I was invited to PTs, but late in the game, and glancing at the PTs, they all had scum in them anyway.

I got some store currency late in the game, but it was pointless by that time.

So, tldr- Great game, you did great running and designing it, and thanks for letting me play!