Doctor Who Mafia 2- GAME OVER!

[Shanba]

Hi. I'm Niv. Let's get to lynching scum, plzkthx

[Shanba]

Stream of consciousness style (with edity bits):

The wagon on Taffmaster here for what is essentially a weak tell is ok - it's day 1, after all.

Holy crap, though, this post is scummy - not only is he blatantly wagoning, he's overmephasising the importance of a tell and pre-emptively defending himself for his wagoning. It reads terribly:

So it looks like we've got rid of the Cult straight away. Its good to know thats one scum group out of the way immediately.

Also a scum dead on night 1 too? Great work.

This is a good start.

Vote: TaffMaster

The "OMG good night for us" comments are pinging my scumdar.

QFT

Unvote. Vote Taffmaster

And can we all try not to turn on each other for fast wagoning? This one is kinda blatantly obvious and I want a piece of it too.

Reading on...

Guys I think voting taff is a good move too:

##vote: Taffmaster

Memeticisms work, I don't need to think, lalalalalala

##unvote

To be quite honest, using the wiki is a terrible excuse for not having actual discussion. Perhaps they work in terms of probability, but just bandwagoning one person on day 1 immediately from the start is incredibly scummy.

This post in not actually true. Weak/random bandwagons d1 are how we get games past the random voting stage in mafiascum. How do you do it on SA?

Also, the wiki thing - the wiki is not God. The article being referred to was published by jeep years ago in order to improve the standard of play on mafiascum. Besically (I believe), he wanted to eradicate a series of rather stupid scumtells that had arisen by making them public and therefore scum less likely to do it. It's not nearly as relevant today as it was then, however, as is evident the congratulating the doc etc scumtells are still used. Why? Because when scum lose three members overnight, they're going to be annoyed. They can't show that though - they have to pretend to be happy. Hence they say "Oh wow! Awesome guys!". It's definitely a scumtell, but to my mind a weak one.

No it's just a day one early bandwagon. It's interesting to see how you react to the votes - can't say I'm particularly impressed. Have you played elsewhere?

Man that post must have made your mafia dick really stiff. I'm sure you're one of the coolest kids on the block around here.

Whether or not you're impressed is of no consequence to me. If there is one thing I hate about this particular forum's play, is your insistence that there is a set of rules that would govern this, if any, social game.

If one were able to actually take Taff's first post in any context and thence vote him, then maybe you would be acting usefully. Seeing as it is his first post in the damn game, and furthermore and observation that is hardly astounding, I see no reason to find suspicion from it. I DO, however, find a day 1 bandwagon of 6 people immediatly after talh's vote suspicious.

Scummy as hell ^

Unvote, vote Aisar

No it's not. Back it up or stand down.

I voted you because you are way too defensive of Taff.

Meh.

Aisar brings up a good point. Why is Xythar in Japan? Why is he watching anime? Its basically cartoons, with sexy bits isnt it? I dont know.

unvote Aisar

vote Xythar

I'll remove this vote when he moves to Australia to start watching Crocodile Hunter.

Just cause you're the subject of a weak day 1 bandwagon doesn't excuse you from playing the game.

Also, ABR/Aisar - :nothelpful:Cicero made a post with content. That makes a nice change. I don't really buy his explanation, though.

I don't read Aisar's vote on Tar as OMGUS - note how earlier he was voted for and didn't vote back. That said, I feel it's a bit of a stretch to call Tar's vote a scumtell - it's clearly something he actually believes, and as such would say as town or scum. However, Tar, how does that equate to the claims in the other games? Here, it was clearly a joke - there, they were throwing a hissyfit and giving up.

Because thats what Tar always does. My meta>yours.

"Guys, guys, we should totally base our observations of the game off of things that people do out of the game. If some guy is always a lurker, we shouldn't call them out for lurking. If some guys gets huffypuffy, we shouldn't call them out for getting emotional. Logic? Reason? Those things are HARD."

I disagree with this post. If someone always lurks, then for them, lurking is not a scumtell. If you end up lynching him over that, then it's a policy lynch -something you disagree with. In order for something to be a scumtell, it has to be something he does more often as scum than town. And every player has those. If this is not a scumtell for Tar, you have to use different tells.

Note: it amazes me how a game at 5 pages can have so little actual content.

God. Up until here this is basically clique on clique action. I'm ignoring any posts relating to one group arguing with the other over scumtells ffrom here on, since my brain will ache if I read any more of them.

There have been plenty of policy lynches in the past, Xythar

And how successful have they been?

I think you fail to realise that Aisar's claiming of scumbuddies is complete WIFOM and very obviously only intended to fish for reactions, much like the early bandwagons on people. He could well still be scum (especially because I don't think he's ever been town ho ho ho*) but personally I think the reactions tell us even more than the original tactic. And in my experience, the people who take the moral high ground and attempt to order the town that someone else must die are, unsurprisingly enough, scum.

*This is not a serious statement. I feel compelled to add this footnote just to make sure you don't misunderstand me.

Though I disagree with this guy (see above logic) I like the fact that he's actually playing. Also, he's stringing words into coherent and logical sentences. I was beginning to worry.

Not completely scummy, no. I don't think ABR is scummy either, really...I think he's just one of those players who has an aggressive style who enjoys causing a fuss and having people look at him. He's causing a fuss with you.

The argument between you two bores me because it seems like it's a personal thing rather than a scum-finding thing, but ya'll keep going at it if you feel like it.

QFAT

[Shanba]

Why are people starting to vote Mastermind of Sin in this game??

What an odd reaction. Why are you worried?

Axelrod's first post gives me a good feeling.

Interesting that Tar should say that scumbuddy claims are scummy - in my experience too, this is true - however, I play on Mafiascum, and on Mafiascum we have different metas in place to SA. In other words, while a townie wouldn't feel free to joke around here on Mafiascum, he may well do on SA.

With MoS and Erg0 about caps - here I do feel that something is off in caps' attack on Tar.

I think Xythar misses the point a bit here - for whatever reason (perhaps nervousness?) scum do tend to fakeclaim scum more often than townies. I can go bust out examples if you want.

More good stuff from Axelrod.

You seem to have a lot of time on your hands Aisar, why don't I see you volunteering...hmmm

Seriously. What does this have to do with anything?

Their rationale for voting you was you making a "good night for us" comment. Do you really expect each one of them to deliver their own individual explanation of what is wrong with such a comment, for a random starting wagon?

Yes.

:a giant psyduck spewing smaller psyducks:

I can't even believe this question was asked. If there was ever a time, we need that emoticon.

You are solely responsible for your vote. Unless you play like SC or Jam, that type of voting is completely unacceptable.

This is another MS meta thing. We see it as acceptable to wagon without necessarily explaining our votes - after all, each person is voting for the same reason. It would just look weird to have that reason repeated 9 times. Messy like.

This isn't about playing to the wiki. I don't use scumtells unless I've seen them work myself, and this one does work. The wiki documents the tell, it does not dictate it.

QFT. Although - Erg0, I swear you've said something like this several times before in this thread (not looking back here so I may be mistaken). Would you like to stat scumhuting?

This isn't about playing to the wiki. I don't use scumtells unless I've seen them work myself, and this one does work. The wiki documents the tell, it does not dictate it.

It works on here, maybe. Different strokes for different folks.

Its not working right now

Scumtells are universal. The only variation between sites is whether people are aware of them.

Disagree. Scumtells vary from person to person and from site to site.

Garnasha's post here I disagree with. Blah... it's hard to catch scum when it's essentially a whole playstyle thing going on. (NOTE: Garnashs' post attackin xythar originally. On second thoughts, I find this positively scummy, especially "outside the road to rome forum" comment.)

Aisar's giving up post reads as genuine. Seriously though, sifting through all this difference of opinion crap is simply tiring.

I havent played with Albert before. I'm in two games with him right now. I'm not initially enjoying it but I hope to warm up to him eventually. I'm sure he's fine when he stops trying to out troll the trolls.

Good luck. We're talking about ABR here, you realise.

Oh god yes Yos is here to bring sanity to our present madness. Agreed about ChronX.

Please no... we've been over this before. Please please plase do not bring up whether or not it's a scumtell again. Sir T, I hate you </3

EBWOP: And whether we consider him a good player or not is immaterial to the question of whether he should be lynched.

QFT

The two posts above me obviously can't tell when something is or isn't a joke.

:rolleyes:

Can we please no turn this game into a MS vs. SA fuckfest? It seems that there's people on both sides who are doing things just to protect their "turf" as it seems.

QFT

3) The wagon on Aisar, however, looks too fast for my liking. Entirely possible that there are 2 scum groups in a game of this size, so that doesn't necessarily make him a townie.

No way is there another scum "group". Maybe one Serial Killer, but no group. I would say that 99% sure.

heh. BM mod, I wouldn't be so sure...

no offence BM

please don't modkill me

The list of scum tells work in this forum maybe, but they are not neccesarilly universal. Lynching me would prove that.

Softclaiming again, I see.

No way is there another scum "group". Maybe one Serial Killer, but no group. I would say that 99% sure.

There is insufficient data to be so certain. At best, there is a 73.2987% probability that there IS still more than one scum group.

unvote
VOTE: Taffmaster

What a ridiculous post.

Vote: ChronX

[Shanba]

Appeal to authority, plus I'd like you to state the reasons again as I can't find them. You're damn lucky I'm not planning to remove my vote from Aisar, since I really want to vote you.

HoS: ABR

for saying his reasons are in someone else's post.

Bleh. This feel somewhat opportunistic

Personally, I think a great policy answer to the above would be to just systematically lynch every experienced player behaving like that so that over time scum couldnt hide that way and people would have to play better. So I need to bite down on my urge to say - OK Town, let's just lynch all the people who've been pains in the ass today and let the chips fall where they may. Hell we're off to a great town start if not now, then when? You're so big on policy lynches, Tar, what do you think of that one?

This proposition is tempting.

Affirmative. It is indeed tempting.

McP, what do you propose we do about Taff's constant soft claiming other than ask for an explicit claim? Soft claims, especially stuck-in-a-rut repetitive ones, are also deserving of policy lynches in my book.

Do you really think he was being serious? Also, what you have been calling softclaims are

not

[Shanba]

oh shush you. Btw, sorry for posting that small post - I didn't mean to hit submit.

Unvote Vote: Chronxscum

[Shanba]

I meant the softclaim part. And yes, the softclaim part is absolutely ridiculous.

I don't have the will to continue through the game. I'mma stop here.

[Shanba]

I define it as "making statements that imply your

alignment and/or

role, without explicitly claiming". Making statements about your alignment is not softclaiming and never will be.

[Shanba]

Yes, because I feel he's reaching in his attack on Taff.

[Shanba]

You're second. And yes, I've just given up. Don't worry, I'll continue from where I got to eventually. Yes, it's based on incomplete information. Still, it's not

bad

information - it's still applicable.

[Shanba]

Fine.

unvote

. Not much point in FoSsing until I finish my read because I count them as much more temporal suspicions than votes.

[Shanba]

so that's win. Did Jamuraan leave much record? I shoulda used the time to reread, but eh. I'm a lazy bastard

[Shanba]

Eh. I can't find where I stopped, so I'mma continue from Post 299 by cicero, mostly cause it's a nice little post. One comment I want to make though about this:

cicero, your explanation of why you added the little pre-emptive disclaimer thing makes sense, and yet I can't accept it. I can't ignore something I feel is scummy simply because you tell me not to attack you about it in the scummy post. I'm not sure if the post itself is scummier because of it, but it's not going to discourage me. In fact, it's quite likely to even encourage other players to attack you. So in essence, it's a fairly self-defeating move. But eh. After that post, I'm less suspicious of you.

Post 309 is also a largely reasonable post. However, the way he states

You seem awfully informed about who the townies are for an uninformed minority.

makes my hair crawl. Just one of those gut things. (As an aside, an uninformed minority? What would that be? SK, I guess... you seem awfully informed about who the SK is for an uninformed majority )

Post 315 gives me major town vibes.

Lol at post 324

ChronX, as you're scum, you want to avoid being lynched. As such, avoid making posts like 330. Eh. I think this was where I got to in my last readthrough. Let's keep going from here.

Hrm. ABR is giving me odd vibes. There's little of the normal gambitting and erratic play I normally see from him - instead he's just spamming.

FoS: ABR

Oh, I remember that post by Yosarian. I must be further back than I thought. There's something to be said for adding post numbers to my readthrough posts XD.

Posts 350 and 351 do not work together. Gah. Why is this guy still breathing. Hell, why does he not even have any votes on him?

I don't really agree with Yos' interpretation of Chronx's last post. It feels more like Chron is looking for reasons to support a lynch on anyone should the possibility come up.

Am disappointed that vollkan came to the same hackneyed conclusion as everyone else.

Sir T too? The way every single mafiascum player suspects Taff/Aisar makes me more and more convinced that the fundamental issue here is a playstyle clash rather than anything really telling. Personally, I'm more likely to listen to Xythar's opinion on this than anyone elses, since he has much, much better metas on his SA fellows than we do, and also feels town to me.

Post 373: vollkan, having played with you before, I'm thinking this is you getting wrapped up in minutiae again, like in your attack on Elias in that other game. Whether or not it's good town play is irrelevant - what is relevant is whether it is pro-town play at all.

There was a point where it was actually an accurate scumtell on SA to take a joke claim too seriously and harass someone over it, if you were wondering.

This doesn't surprise me, tbh - sounds like scummy opportunism.

Post 375 - uh. yeah. what you just said ^^

Posts 382 and 383 are simply a way of winding people up. In fact, I read that as a minor scumtell from SirT/Vollkan - perpetuating the site rivalry is simply distracting.

Post 392 - <3 Erg0. Except I disagree with you on ABR. He's normally caused much more of a stir by now as town. You do have more experience with him than me, but it's not that much more.

Unvote vote: ChronX. And yes, I know I was already voting him.

Ah, now I'm about where I left off. Heh. Page 17, for future reference.

Post 403: Eh, we've recently had a few badly designed theme games on MS where massclaiming essentially breaks the setup. Hopefully that isn't the case here, because it's no fun when that happens.

408 doesn't read as opportunistic as it did last time by Garnasha. I must have been getting quite crabby by that point >.>

ARghaghhh. That drives me nuts. ChronX, just die. If you think he's softclaiming power role, than you sure as hell shouldn't be forcing him to claim. The appeals to emotion you noted are much much more common from power roles than anything else.

Damnit cicero. You're supposed to be scum after your early posts. Now you're being all town >:

ON CHRONX! A VOTE FOR TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND PRO-TOWN.

As a sidenote, Taffmaster's repeated appeals to emotion annoy me, but appeals to emotion are not scummy.

haha. Yos sees the light too. Hallelujah.

Post 447 seems to miss the point a bit though - if he speculatd about ti before knowing his alignment, it seems fairly odd to assume that it's therefore something he's more likely to do as scum.

This one needs quoting and dissecting in full:

Some unmentioned scumtells from Taffmaster:

So if you were to kill me today and I cardfliped town

Em PHA sis on "today". I wonder if Taff has one of those cool roles where if you get targetted by the right person at night, you are converted to a scum group member. Like, a broken robot maybe?

This is utterly ridiculous and useless speculation. Even if it was true, which is unlikely, given what I've seen of such freudian slips before, what in hell's name would you hope to gain from stating this? If scum are looking for a traitor, I'm pretty damn sure town aren't supposed to be helping them :\

I cant, I'm not a day kill vigilante

More (early) mention of roles. Lump this in with his mason speculation, etc

I agree this statement was stupid. How, exactly, is it scummy?

Hell, infact I'd say being scum with someone on SA is a nightmare as most of the time you get sold out by your scum buddies in an attempt to make them look innocent

But I'm out of line for suggesting his vote on Yos might be distancing among scum?

If you can provide a coherent reason beyond pure OMGUS for suggesting it, then no. But all you are saying is that Yos is scummy for a bullshit reason, Taff is scummy for a somewhat legitimate reason and then saying that it follows that Taff's vote is likely distancing and that Yos and Taff are prob scum together. This does not follow at all, for a couple of reasons:

First off, there is the likelihood of multiple scumgroups that has been stated earlier in the thread. In such a case, it would be possible for them to both be scum but for the post not to be distancing.

Secondly, and more importantly, unless you can say why Taff's vote is more likely distancing than not, which as far as I can tell, you have completely failed at, any attempt to link the two is irrational and misguided. The simplest explanation is not that Taff was distancing.

Upon first examination, any success can be seen as a blessing.

Face of Boe?

The role fisher is accusing me of role fishing!

Agreed. Congratulations, you found a legitimate scumtell.

What was vollkan saying about no hint of the Master?

This again directed at Mcpaltp. Again, trying to out a role (is the Master a goodie or baddie on Dr Who? Couldn't find mention in the wiki straight off)

Master is a bad guy

Also the Slithereen could easily be playing Human roles, so a roleclaim wouldnt be too helpful.

This speculation furthers my own that, combined with the "99% sure" that there IS only one scum group, Taff may have the potential to be recruited into a scum group.

^_o

Your statement doesn't follow. It's like saying: Apples are round. This furthers my opinion that oranges are orange. There's no discernable link between the two.

Also would like to note here that you're trying to push two compltely incompatible theories - that Yos is Taff's scumbuddy and that Taff is a traitor type. If Taff is a traitor, he doesn't know his scumbuddies yet.

Post 467 - Shteven, Aisar asked for replacement. I doubt he's going to post much any more.

Post 471 - Roflmao. I suppose this sets you up for an OMGUS attack on Yos, seeing as pressure is now on you. We'll see.

. I tried to get Taff to claim in the post where I said, summarizing, claim something specific or stop alluding to your townness

This is not what you said. Not even close.

Taff, come out and EXPLICITLY claim your role, since I have quoted 2 or 3 of your posts where you pull the "the town will be sorry" crap.

is what you said. There's a world of difference between the two. And not only that - you also managed to completely avoid responding to Yosarian2. Probably because you have no response.

[Shanba]

Ok, cool. Replacements. Let's see what we make of them.

Roach's attack on Flameaxe seems somewhat weak - OTOH, it's not on Aisar or Taffmaster again thank God.

ABR claims mcaltp is just being a muppet. Doesn't surprise me. Flameaxe asking ABR a question which ABR stated he couldn't answer because it referred to ongoing games is a disgrace to reading comprehension >.<

Urm. I don't get why ABR is voting mcpaltp when apparently he has a meta on him :\

Post 534: If he's doing it more than one game, then how does it make hims cum here?

FoS: ABR

. Not liking where you're going with this.

537: Flameaxe, what motive would he have for lying?

More trolling, useless crap... seriously. I thought we'd finished this pages ago

Yama's "content" is largely disappointing.

ChronX is now failing to scumhunt, despite promising to do so many posts ago.

Tar makes a silly post.

I replace in. Whoo! All love me. Uh, there's also some speculation about bad guys and good guys and stuff. Yah. Uhm. Didn't get too much outta that.

[Shanba]

I'm changing my vote to cicero for two reasons

Posting after Jammys scum claim and ignoring it. Yes it was 7 minutes later, but I still would expect someone to notice a new post above theirs when they post. Shanbas is even worse, how the hell did he not notice it.

FOS Shanba

unvote vote cicero

I was engaged in a dialogue with cicero and wasn't reading hat was being posted. That said, even if I had noticed, I would likely not have responded - even though when I first saw it he had alreay been modkilled I had been ignoring the trollish crap that had been being posted for days already.

[Shanba]

Right. ChronX still needs to die. Don't buy the wagon on cicero - I found him scummy at times, but his other actions have outweighed that.

[Shanba]

Normally at this point we'd all unvote and say "Let's let the replacement talk!". Screw that.

[Shanba]

No, it's not, silly. Aisar had the same role as you do now. Imagine player A is scum. He doesn't play a great game and d3 he's under a lot of pressure. Player B then replaces him. We can't simply say that the replacement should be given a clean slate. Hence why I'm still voting ChronX/Iammars.

[Shanba]

No, it's not, silly. Aisar had the same role as you do now. Imagine player A is scum. He doesn't play a great game and d3 he's under a lot of pressure. Player B then replaces him. We can't simply say that the replacement should be given a clean slate. Hence why I'm still voting ChronX/Iammars.

Did you read my previous post? I'm not advocating Roach slate's being wiped clean because he's a replacement, I'm advocating Roach's slate being wiped clean because of who he was replacing.

Although I do agree with Yos2. I did think Aisar was pro-town.

Eh. I don't think Roach's argument makes sense. It shouldn't matter who Roach replaced, so long as the opinions on is predecessor make sense. Though I do agree I thought Aisar was pro-town.

[Shanba]

Hence why I'm still voting ChronX/Iammars.

I'm not 100% sure why you're still voting me. Could you please explain?

Well, mostly cause you're scum. I could go outline a case if you want.

[Shanba]

Bleh. You people, so demanding...

First off, there was ChronX continuously calling people out for softclaiming. I quoted some of this is my catchup posts, Yos argued with ChronX about it. The thing is, though, what he called softclaiming wasn't, and what he called softclaiming wasn't scummy (nor is what I would call softclaiming either.) Yos also pointed out that this could be a way of getting people to reveal their roles (not sold on this argument, as it implies more subtlety than I saw from ChronX's posts, but eh. It's not a bad thought anyway).

Secondly, there's a certain post towards ABR that feels scummy to me. I quoted it in my catchup post. I can't really explain it, but it feels like more of the attacking the weak sheep sort of post than I would expect from a townie.

Thirdly, there's the way he started attacking Yos more and more as Yos laid into him about the softclaiming stuff, eventually trying to link him to Taffmaster in a way that is completely ridiculous.

Fourthly, he unvoted Taffmaster when the wagon was off the boil, saying that though he thought Taffmaster was scum, he needed to look at other people - and then, despite saying this, he then fails to either start looking at other people or replace his vote on Taffmaster.

[Shanba]

Well, if it's in the game, it's 100% a pro-town role. But eh.

Unvote

for now.

[Shanba]

...ok, I have absolutly no idea what Iammars is talking about. Really wish I had cable so I could watch the new Dr. Who show, heh. Shanba; I guess your unvote means that Iammars just claimed and it was a convincing claim, and his claim that Choronx thought he was a mafia traitor but he actually wasn't actually makes sense?

Actually, the second part doesn't. As cicero just pointed out (sigh), Iammars claimed K9 pretty obviously. Interestingly, k9 is not a major character in the new series' at all, appearing in only one or two episodes.

Iammars, I have a question, seeing as your role is now open for everyone to see - do you target someone at night or are they supposed to target you?

[Shanba]

I admit. I laughed.

[Shanba]

Hey ibby

cicero, do you oftzen vote hop this much?

[Shanba]

Well, as far as I can tell none of your predecessors have said anything useful. By virtue of that there's not a whole lot for you to say.

[Shanba]

Hey ibby

cicero, do you oftzen vote hop this much?

I vote hop as much as seems warranted. Why aren't you asking Caps that question? Or am I upsetting the Taffmaster wagon or something?

I ask because I want to know. I can't imagine I'll get much of a decent response from caps and it's much more interesting to me to know your answer to the question.[/quote]
Caps is the play because he lectured people quite intelligently on helpful and not helpful play re: setup speculation and then when he gets bored claims to be the doctor. "That furry woman".

Caps knows that that's inviting a nightkill which is bad for town. He's bored and wants to get the real doc to counterclaim him I'm guessing.

Ignoring caps at this point is not the play.

Play by the SomethingAwful players has to be seen through a simple prism: they think we're idiots. I can tell you one think for certain - if caps, at this point in time, claims to be the doctor, for no reason... he's not the doctor.

And I'm sick of this shit.[/quote]
Eh. The case against him is good, and the claim was idiotic, but... I dunno. I think it's that I'd be embarassed to lynch a doc d1 in a large theme game. Ah what the hell.

Vote: Caps

. Argh. I've never written and erased a vote so many times in my life.

[Shanba]

And yes, I am actively supporting anti-taff wagons. Call it gut.

[Shanba]

unvote

Wow. That was pretty insane. Hrm.

Vote Shteven

[Shanba]

(My opinion on the subject is that the Jester should claim D1 in all large games and the town should let them fulfill their win condition that same day. Most people who suggest otherwise in games I have played have turned up scum.)

Can I just say how ridiculous this insinuation is? People who disagree with you here are disagreeing on a game theory point, which is not scummy. The only role whose thoughts on this would be changed by their alignment would be the jester him(or her)self.

All this said, Jester should not be the first thought when someone does something scummy, and Garnasha saying it is annoying. I don't think it's scummy as such, though.

Shteven/Tar's votes on the wagon still strike me as somewhat opportunistic.

[Shanba]

In fact, in some setups you can even force the scum to kill him.

[Shanba]

Alright guys. We do actually need to commit to a lynch now. I have no problem with Tar being that lynch, or with Shteven. Not convinced on Iammars, given scum prob have fakeclaims, but I'm willing to leave him for now.

[Shanba]

Iammars, you say that like it's a bad thing. Personally, I have no problem with scum being denied nightkills.

[Shanba]

Shanba, two points:
1. You also seemed to want a lynch. That's not defending iammars, that's attacking you, your comment on iammars is a good one, but the same could be said for you though you were a bit more subtle.

I did want a lynch, mostly because I feel we're getting pretty stagnant here and new information would open new avenues of inquiry. Of course, we could sit here analysing each and every action to death, but eh. We have to lynch eventually. Caps being modkilled served admirably to give us new info to work with, though.

2. What's wrong with my case on Roach? Which reminds me to put my vote back where it was before that

scumbag

idiot started acting even stranger/more anti-town.

vote: Roach

Eh. Nothings wrong with it, as such... it's just... Aisar's last post with the claim in it rang all sorts of town bells in my head. Iunno, hard to explain. Jus don't think he's scum.

Also, Shteven/Tar are scummier. Actually,

Unvote Shteven Vote: Tarhalindur

[Shanba]

I don't know why, Garnasha, but people do claim when they're giving up. Sometimes they even claim scum (these are the times where you start swearing at them from your computer screen). I can't explain it, but eh.

[Shanba]

People I am getting strong scum vibes from: ABR, Tar

People I am getting some scum vibes from: Shteven

People I have an odd felling about but can't articulate: Yos2, DGB, Iammars, cicero.

Fun, eh?

Unvote vote: ABR

Diescumdie.

[Shanba]

Tarhalindur claimed? See what you miss when you're not paying attention. I guess I'd better go look for it.

Oh yeah, Jack Harkness. Egh. Iunno. Again, if it's in the game, it's prob pro-town, but I could see Jack Harkness as a fakeclaim - except then his play towards mcpaltp makes little sense.

Unvote Vote: ABR

[Shanba]

Hi Adel.

Any insights? Better live up to your sig >.>

(I kid)

[Shanba]

Eh. If BM says it's fine, I'll go along with it.

[Shanba]

I still think we should be lynching ABR. That's followed in preference by Flameaxe and then Shteven over Iammars. We've got a few days and with the pace of the game we should be able to get alternative bandwagons going rather than lazily voting on the biggest wagon.

[Shanba]

Ibby is uncharacteristically lurkish, isn't she? Haven't played much with her. Anyone has better insight on her contribution so far compared to her behavior in other games?

I don't think she was really expecting to replace into the game yet.

Unvote vote Shteven

Be inconsistent and bandwagon I shall. But inside, my heart is still telling me yes.

[Shanba]

It seems like the town wants a Shteven lynch so I will help it along,

Unvote, Vote: Shteven

This does NOT mean that Flameaxe is off the hook.

Ouch. Now I want to vote you again.

[Shanba]

I'm thinking that cicero should claim.

[Shanba]

Right.

Now, it has originally I was thinking that ABR wouldn't be scum cause claiming cop with a guilty would be nothing short of insane here. But then I remembered that he plays somewhat recklessly as scum too. It's possible he is still scum. It's also possible that cicero is scum. Or that both are town. Or even that both are scum (possibly ABR has a action that only affects scum, targeted cicero?). However, DGB's earlier plan is correct. In order to discern ABR's sanity, but also in case of miller effects etc. we need to keep the claimed doc alive for a day in order to discourage scum attacking him if he is town.

A thought has just occurred to me. Is a CPR doc possible?

[Shanba]

Unvote vote: Cicero

I'm really not sure how to deal with ABR. So I'm going to do it like this: ABR, if you're pro-town and lying, I will gun for your lynch if you are wrong about cicero. So you have up until the lynch today to take back that cop claim if you're lying town. If you're really the cop, then this will be a scumlynch. If you're lying scum, we get to lynch you tomorrow. I can't really see any downsides.

[Shanba]

Bleh. If anyone has information that explains why ABR's result might be wrong and is holding onto it, then they are a muppet and should right now reveal the info they have. Immediately. Like, yesterday.

Honestly, I don't see any compelling reason to believe this is the case. It is a flaw in my plan, but I don't really see any alternative: we can't ignore it, we can't assume one is town and one is scum. Maybe we could wait a day, but I'm not convinced of how useful that would be: if the scum have a scum roleshifter/results messer upper it wouldn't shed a whole lot of light on the situation. It might help to not have a bus driver claim, I guess, but that's it: and in that case, we need to plan differently to how we would plan if we suspected a scum roleshifter thing. In the former we would want ot have ABR re-investigate you, the latter we would want him to investigate someone else.

[Shanba]

Either vote No Lynch as Ecto suggested

WTH? That's an awful suggestion. If it's been suggested because it might sort out the cicero/ABR entanglement then it completely misses the 100% better option of lynching some else. Otherwise, I can't really see the point, unless we want to let scum kill more people overnight for some reason? Where did Ecto suggest this?

I am town. ABR is probably town. I know one of those things to be true and I gave you ample evidence to support it. I am pretty damn confident of the other.

If you are going to lynch anyone, lynch the guy with a proven history of lying as town. There is merit to Fonz's point that, given ABR's completely anti-town/willing to lie playstyle, killing him is always a good idea.

Bah. I'm not willing to lynch someone because he has a history of lying as town. That's idiotic. I would 100% lynch a doc claim over a cop claim save if I was convinced one was scummier than the other, which I'm not here, or if it was lylo.

But you need to consider that a bus driver is pretty likely in a game that let Vollkan STEAL MoS's vote for a day. Battlemage promised tons of power roles and weird mechanics. And here we are.

The possibility of a role is always in the back of my mind, but I'm not willing to let the possibility that a certain role exists influnece my play until there's decent evidence that it exists. For example, it may be that there's a scum role who gets to kill three people a night unless we no lynch at which point it dies, but I'm not willing to vote no lynch just in case such a role exists, because I don't see any evidence that it does.

[Shanba]

I'm struggling to understand the ABR lynch. Why would he claim a guilty as scum? I want cicero dead, but

Unvote vote: mcpaltp

I want a lynch more.

[Shanba]

@Ibby: Things have come up, plus have been away for xmas. See my recent posts in V/LA. Reverse the question though. Where have you been?

Setup speculation is muchly fun.

We had three kills last night. Ecto, ABR and Tar. Tar was killed by the last Dalek who is now essentially a serial killer. We may be able to narrow that person down by his/her interactions with other dead Dalek players.

*Edited out on the sudden realisation that I'm an idiot*

Is it not possible we have a lone cult recruit out there as well?

The other two kills could actually BOTH be townside vigilante actions. ABR was, I'm sure, a town side vigging. If I was scum there is no WAY I would kill townie ABR. He's too useful as an agent of sabotage.

Perhaps I missed something, but why would scum not kill ABR? Presumably if we have multiple scumgroups, they wouldn't know each other's identity. In which case, they would have no reason not to think he was the cop, and indeed, killing him would be a win-win situation - either they hit a rival or they hit a town power role. Unless I'm missing something, I'd thinks that an SK was the most likely culprit.

Ectomancer came under scrutiny yesterday towards days end and I think there is good reason to think that that may not have been a scum kill either. Note - please dont read this and come back at me with "OMG he wants us to forget the slitheens". I dont want that. I just think people should consider that the Ecto kill could have come from both scum or town side.

True enough, but I'm not sure how this is helpful. You basically just said that either he was killed by scum or by town. Urm. Yers. Moving on

This could conceivably mean we are only hunting one more Dalek. In any event the finding and killing of that Dalek should be our next priority. That is superior to having vigilantes step forward at this time. I had thought that maybe Dalek Sek would be a good guy type but apparently not. Killing Tarhalindur was obviously a doc killing scum manouvre.

When did Tar claim doc? Is it not possible a misguided vig killed him?

Agreed on the Dalek thing, as they should be the most obvious, and removing one kill a night has gotta be useful whatever happens.

Cicero is town. Pretty sure of that. Just because it's important, though, I'd note that's not a breadcrumb.

There aer plenty of roles that could be Serial Killers, tbh. The Master, for one. Any lone monster would work as another. Perhaps that professor dude who became a monster. No shortage of scum possibilities on Doctor Who. I don't see anything that suggests the Master, though, unless someone suddenly becomes scum on a certain night. That's a possibility. - it occurs to me that this is reaching into the complete wild speculation by the end.

Scum... blah. Not sure. Not cicero. It saddens me that ABR was being idiotic again. I had hoped... Alas. Pourtant, il y aura quand meme de l'information utile créé hier.

although it could be that some bad guy was wondering if Albert really WAS a cop and if all that "I'm a townie" stuff was just yet another gambit.

Clearly I

have

missed something. I'll have to look back at that now.
Korlash please make lots sense cause understand I do not you much like yeah?

[Shanba]

No. We have them all deaded from the looks of things. Pooky died N0 and Adel died N1. Last night no one got "deleted".

Not necessarily.

We have one dead cult killer and one cult recruiter. It's possible the cult killer was a part of the scumgroup originally and there's still a cultist out there who has no pwoers and is essentially an sk without any benefits (not even a kill). But if there is, it's not our pre-occupation atm.

The focus on a possible Slitheen has to do with the hints the Mod gave us in the flavor text at the beginning. At the end of the day though, it doesnt much matter whether the SK is flavored master or Slitheen for scumhunting purposes. It's still an SK hunt at the end of the day.

This was a response to someone who said he couldn't think of any SK roles. I was providing alternative options.

[Shanba]

Reverse the question though. Where have you been?

Umm... here? Apparently wrong and clueless, but here.

That's not quite what I meant. I'm curious as to what you actually think about who is scum.

[Shanba]

That's not quite what I meant. I'm curious as to what you actually think about who is scum.

I gave a quite a bit of my thoughts on that late yesterday. I'm aware that you weren't here for that, but you could go back and read it. I was apparently way off when it came to Ecto, so I'm re-evaluating and asking questions in an attempt to determine who scum may be, which was what my first post of the day was about.

OK, I reread pages 75-80 and I realised I hadn't read any of them before. My Mcpaltp vote seems pretty stupid in light of that...

Anyway, yes. I see you did give thoughts. One thing I want to know: at the beginning of talking about Ecto, you say he's in the middle of your list. You then go on to vote him and your posts today make it feel like you really thought he was scum. I'm confused.

As I've said more than once, I don't know anything about the theme, so I have nothing to add to the discussion on that topic.

Fair enough. Wikipedia has (creepily) extensive coverage of the topic (after all, it's a nerd topic.)

At this point, I'm fairly suspicious of lurkers such as Yosip who hasn't posted since he replaced in. His predecessor stopped posting before I even replaced into the game myself. Also, Kison is pinging the scumdar as well, but for not much more than lack of involvement. If indeed we're down to so few scum as people seem to be implying, lurking is a good strategy for scum. They can escape notice while the town argues back and forth about things like what scum roles are left. And then we can hit another deadline and another no lynch. I think we should start lynching people.

Interesting. I don't really buy the Yosip thing. If the mod were to announce he'd picked up prods or if he'd posted elsewhere, that would be different. But I see no evidence he hasn't just flaked. Kison, OTOH... urgh. I'm beginning to get a meta on him, I think.

vote: Yosip

All that said, I'm actually not sure who you think is scum either, Shanba.

True. Last time I said who I thought was scum was a while ago.

In this game I have many more town reads than scum reads (though with so many scum dead, I guess that's a given.) Korlash definitely worries me, and I remember being suspicious of Garnasha previously too. I don't buy the mcpaltp thing. Erg0's play yesterday felt like a curious mix of wagon hopping and insightful posting. Hm. Pokerface also gives me bad vibes, though I still believe he is town.

[Shanba]

I do agree Taff shouldn't say anything.

I also find Lowell's constant "I believe so and so now!" things a bit odd. Other's thoughts on them?

I don't find it that odd, personally.

[Shanba]

Right. I've had it. With likely two scum in 15, one vig for one scum is a fine tradeoff. If we have a second group of scum, rather than an SK, then it's important to make that known now rather than later.

I'm the vig. My role name is Anne-Droid.

I didn't kill night one. (or rather, longname didn't).
I killed Yamahako night two.
I killed Rampage last night, and boy did I enjoy it.
The killing pattern (three kills a night that I didn't perform, plus the one that can be attributed to Cicero) strongly suggest a second anti-town element.

Now out the goddamned SK.

We can afford it at this point, we're well ahead of the scum I would guess.

[Shanba]

I'm actualy reading Korlash as some kind of SK here. Possibly a rb/SK duo? I've never heard of it before, but it makes the mosts ense to me.

Vote: Korlash

[Shanba]

Thanks Taff.

Hrm.

This game is cool. All the scum just die. I don't even need to do anything.

Ibby! Come speak! Kison? Are you scum?

I'm lost...

[Shanba]

You'd have to assume so, else the flavour would be fairly strange.

Also, I totally called the master being SK.

Kison: Who is scum then?

[Shanba]

Um. Bleh. I, uh, officially dunno what to do.

[Shanba]

Vote: Xtoxm

If I'm brutally honest, I'm mindlessly wagoning. But hey, I have an excuse, so no worries.

[Shanba]

unvote

I think a massclaim may break the game at this point, if we can clear enough. I can clear another, for example.

[Shanba]

Guys, xtoxm is priority nil. Axel has claimed an innocent on him. Do you disbelieve AXelrod? Do you think he's mistaken? If not, unvote him.

[Shanba]

There's a way we can solve this.

Axelrod, how certain are you of your info?

If he answers 100%, then xtoxm can only be scum if he is. As such, Axel should be lynched first in that scenario if you think they are scum.

[Shanba]

Alright, then that will do.

So, do you still feel Xtoxm is scum?

[Shanba]

Massclaim:

For (in order of me remembering/noticing): Yos2, me, cicero

Against: none

undecided - the other 10

[Shanba]

Eh, no, that's not it.

The point is that we have the upperhand and we want to reinforce that upperhand. Atm, we may have enough information from info roles etc to force a win. This may be especially true depending on the other roles we have. If we just keep playing, lynching, and letting nightkills happen, there's a good chance we'll lose some of this info. We want to capitalise on this advantage, especially as it's very likely that there's only 1 killing group left.

[Shanba]

I do think so, though I would prefer that we discuss this first to see whether others agree with me - I don't know the mod all that well, so I'm not sure how many power roles we may have left.

[Shanba]

Alright then - that works too.

In which case, can we all say that we understand the necessity of breadcrumbing?

[Shanba]

A safeclaim is a rolename given to the scum which is guaranteed not to be in the game. Hence, if scum have a fakeclaim, that wont happen.

[Shanba]

I'm not feeling this wagon

[Shanba]

Doesn't Great Brittain have a Queen instead of a president in RL?

(I am american so I don't know if think that office exists in britain. And I have never seen the show so is there a president on the show? Since I don't see how that role would be annoying I'm keeping my vote after all Americans do vote for presidents.)

The head of state is the queen, the government is run by a Prime Minister

[Shanba]

PokerFace, please don't do that.

[Shanba]

Could we please stop speculating on the roles of people who haven't claimed?

Kison's last post is good (and not just cause he called me town, though that's a part of it <.<)

Axelrod gives me good vibes. I would be surprised to discover he was scum.

I still think Aisar/replacements (Setael) are town.

MoS I have no freaking clue.

Pokerface... eh. Not sure, but going town.

ibby is too townie. Clearly scum. <.< (I am, in fatc, kidding. I think she's town, but I wish she'd post more)

Me: Hi me.

Yos2: Eh. Who do you think is scum?

Ho hum. I've eliminated nearly everyone.

Vote: MoS

[Shanba]

@Shanba: 2 things: (1) is there a reason for you not to say who is the person you can "clear" (I am not making any assumptions about whether there is or isn't, just asking), and (2) there is probably no reason to be voting MoS at this time.

Unvote

Not especially, but it would involve claiming, so meh.

Vote: Lowell

I can roll with this, I guess.

[Shanba]

BUT : Doesn't the moderator typically ask for confirmation from the player before sticking them into the game? If that's the case, it's possible Yosip submitted a night kill and just ditched the game after that. But, that's one hell of a long break(December 4-December 19) to do nothing but replace into a game, not even post, and just vanish once again after that.

Not BM, he typically makes sure you're ok to replace at some point previously and then you have a role PM suddenly appear in your inbox.

Hum. I'm tempted to full claim here, to reduce the possibility of error.

[Shanba]

Yeah, I may as well full claim.

I'm the last mason. I can clear myself. I'm Sarah Jane Smith, I became a mason the night that Iammars died (I was told as morning broke, so I was unable to speak to him. It suddenly occurred to me that scum might be able to piggyback onto my claim after I died, so I thought I'd better claim now.

I was a little bit confused, tbh: I didn't have a targeting ability, and Iammars claimed not to either, so I'm unsure as to how we became masons.

[Shanba]

Yos contributed muchly day 1

[Shanba]

On Axel/xtoxm - it's not like they've claimed masons, Axel has claimed an innocent on xtoxm. The current consensus s one scum, yeah? As such, Xtoxm is cleared: either Axel is the lying scum, or he is telling the truth, and either way xtoxm is not the scum.

The only issue here is if you think there is more than one scum or axel's info is unreliable.

[Shanba]

BM's deadlines are great, so long as you don't have a night action.

[Shanba]

that was a highly jammy win. Ah well, was fun, though it's interesting just how inaccurate my scumhunting was this game.

[Shanba]

Night 1 - Fixed K-9 (I had a sonic screwdriver which I was told could be used one time during the game on a player, and if I picked the right player something good might happen. I was not told what that thing would be.)

I did wonder whether it was the doctor who had done that.

[Shanba]

I probably mislead you by claiming vanilla.

Yers...

All credit to Axelrod, his actions directly led to the damage limitation of the townies fakeclaiming.

[Shanba]

Oh, on a sidenote, did the scum have safeclaims? It looked like it right up until Yos screwed up his claim.

[Shanba]

So you didn't have safeclaims?

Wow, talk about ballsy scumplay from Adel, then. Kudos.

[Shanba]

Once we got through the whole stupid culture clash thing, this game ended up being really quite fun