Kids TV Show Characters Mafia - Endgame

[Gammagooey]

Hey hey

I'm not going to have time to reread super thoroughly for a day or two, but if there are any big events that someone wants me to look over give me a link and I'll go over those first.

ps hi hiphops!

[Gammagooey]

@Bro- I was gonna say it's pretty bold of you to say that when you're a much bigger wagon than I am, but you aren't anymore actually

Why do you think keyz was scum?

[Gammagooey]

i do still want bro to answer it too but kk

[Gammagooey]

@bro- cool cool, thanks. I do think that newbies tend to get bullied around a bit in larges no matter what their alignment, but I've definitely seen #2 be a legit tell before, with thunderhog in gay mafia 2.

also if I were to gutvote anyone right now with pretty much just a skim of the last 4-5 pages it'd be kdowns, the post of his that magna quoted feels worse than anything else I've seen so far.

[Gammagooey]

read over the first 10 pages, then skipped around a lot right before and after the d1 lynch

why are people scumreading DS with Imperium flipping scum? from Imperium's iso it looked like DS was being pushed on more as a potential mislynch by Imperium than as distancing, one of his wall posts had a few sentences with fo' real reasons for DS being scum. It's not that strong of a tell for DS tbf but I think it's at least a little more likely that DS is town than scum from that.

this is pretty fine for now
VOTE: kdowns

[Gammagooey]

oh, and spiffeh looked town for actually believing in Imperium being town and then realizing that it made him look like shit to a lot of people and actually understanding that and accepting it instead of instantly trying to push someone else like 'this dude is mega-scum though it's obv not me cause it's them'

esp. with imperium flipping goon, it's posssssssible that spiff saw that he was being townread and wanted to give him a good reason for being alive later and possibly draw the protect to him, but I don't think spiff would see that as worth the risk.

[Gammagooey]

Don't think we should lynch hiplop

why not? I don't think I can read forum-hiplop for shit personally.

[Gammagooey]

I don't full on tr hip I've been back and forth on him.

I like hip as of lately since his Spiffeh scum read is paralleled with mine and if Spiffeh is scum, he's strong scum that no one would want to bus.

if you like his actual reasons for thinking spiff is scum, that's fine, but basing reads on people's alignments on your scum reads on other unflipped players is awful. there's enough manipulative distancing/buddying/etc bullshit to sort through with a legit scumflip, trying to add in scum connections that have a solid chance of not even being real might as well be doing scum's job for them.

@MoI- Do you have any particularly strong town reads? Also your reason for finding me town seems dumb. Pretty sure I'd still be putting effort into going through everything and bugging people here no matter what my alignment.

[Gammagooey]

so I'm prob going to be a bit useless until I have time to reread either lateish tonight or tomorrow night

only things I have to say now are that grib looks a bit town for his recent posting and that if the wagons could be transmuted into kdowns+MoI it would be my dream come true.

[Gammagooey]

guess who's weekend went to absolute shit

reading over stuff in half an hour or so.

[Gammagooey]

guess who's weekend went to absolute shit

Who's?

possible. i wouldn't know tho, ask him

ayyyyy

[Gammagooey]

im still reading and haven't even gotten very far but I feel like this is the best vote though i'm not particularly confident in it

VOTE: MoI

more words once i'm actually done reading for the night

[Gammagooey]

jesus this game is dense

I don't like MoI's comments on me or DS - the thrown out sorta-town read on me is pretty much pointless and MoI should know that I'm pretty competent as town and scum and that me trying to get into the game on its own really isn't an alignment tell for me, and his early early attack on DS (his iso #4) felt overly constructed - it goes into DS being scum because he isn't looking that closely into his wagon even though it's still at least a bit RVSish, and from DS's perspective the wagon would largely be based on a pretty simple misinterpretation of one of DS's posts. It overlooks a lot of gamestate context and saying 'he didn't do this so he's scum' because of it feels bad. Also I just haven't seen anything from him yet that actually looks like some sort of towntell and he's got some pretty decent sized posts already.

farside reads as gutscum, I think because of how she was interacting with keyen early game, plus when I was reading it seemed like MoI and farside were a pretty plausible scum pairing even though that's definitely not worth pushing on it's own.

grib and cheetory I'm fairly confident in being town, hiplop I'm not actually all that confident in but I REALLY don't want to lynch him today or probably tomorrow because he just feels town to me, and I like DS's early play a lot, it looked like he was legit trying to do things and make the game progress and he just seemed like kind of an irritant instead of actual scum.

[Gammagooey]

oh

and i don't like kdown's posting as he was replacing out, and none of his posts even look town at all individually, but I do think it's pretty possible that kdowns would have this sort of mindset as town. or i guess it's more that his mindset seems suicidal and awful as scum so it's a little more likely than not that it's just not the case?

I would lynch the shit out of him before lynching hiplop or DS though so *shrug*

[Gammagooey]

HEY CEPH (and i think spiffeh and maybe another person or two on the DS wagon)

It seems like to me the DS wagon has been their own little group of 5-7 people who want him dead with most of the rest of the game either thinking he's town for d1 stuff or just a town vi (correct me if I'm wrong on this though cuz I still haven't read like half the game yet)

I like the MoI wagon way, way more than any of the other wagons and there have been several other people i think that seemed interested in it too

Can you come over to the MoI wagon for now? I won't guarantee I'll stay on it but if MoI can't be done then after I can vote DS for a bit and see if it'll help the wagons stop stalling so hard at least.

[Gammagooey]

ya http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8291281

the "hasn't done anything that looks like a towntell" part is actually worse than the DS stuff I mentioned there in my mind at least. hiplop and DS and kdowns (and bro but he's got the whole thing with MJ that makes me not want to mess with him atm anyway) all have little things that I think are more likely to be coming from a town mindset than a scum one, even if it is possible for scum to fake them, and not seeing anything like that for MoI yet with his...density of his posts is pretty worrying.

[Gammagooey]

I guess I need to keep in mind that MoI is lynchbait most likely. I played one game with him, somehow he ate a lynch when RC was campaigning on another lynch. It's very rare for RC to not get his way.

(this is at hiplop too)
MoI absolutely isn't lynchbait in given my games with him, he puts in more than enough effort for people to townread him most of the time and really the only personality-based reason why he might get lynched even a little more often than normal (which I don't think is even actually the case) is that he's the most condescending player on the entire site.

I really want to at least start narrowing the wagons down to feasible ones before a couple days before deadline instead of dealing with the clusterfuck that looks likely if things keep going as they are now, and unvoting because of a fast wagon is retarded unless you actually think there's any chance of him being quicklynched. If there are actually new people joining the DS wagon that haven't been on it before, then fine, but if there AREN'T I really want to see everyone who thinks MoI is likely scum on the MoI wagon to see if it can actually happen today instead of finding out later 'oh yeah most of the game doesn't want to lynch either of MoI or DS guess we're prob no lynching or throwing votes out on whoever we think can actually get lynched today'

Also I think it was spiffeh who said this a while ago but DS's pushes for really stupid reasons earlier in the game I'm pretty sure are things he thinks are at least somewhat close to correct regardless of his actual alignment, I don't think those are any more likely to actually come from scum than town.

@SnarkySnowman- Why do you think MoI is town?

[Gammagooey]

someone asked why I thought hiplop was town too

I just really think this feels like the hiplop I've seen before in other games, and he's even more motivated and is trying harder than in the other games I've played with him too. He really seems like he's trying to actually find and lynch scum and it just feels really, really town to me.

[Gammagooey]

words

Bad post.

bad player

[Gammagooey]

someone asked why I thought hiplop was town too

I just really think this feels like the hiplop I've seen before in other games, and he's even more motivated and is trying harder than in the other games I've played with him too. He really seems like he's trying to actually find and lynch scum and it just feels really, really town to me.

are we talking about the same hiplop

yeah he does a lot of one-line posts

he's still posting a fuckton and commenting on pretty much everything that's been going on.

[Gammagooey]

someone asked why I thought hiplop was town too

I just really think this feels like the hiplop I've seen before in other games, and he's even more motivated and is trying harder than in the other games I've played with him too. He really seems like he's trying to actually find and lynch scum and it just feels really, really town to me.

??? Where are you seeing this.

Can you cite a couple posts?

tbh I doubt you're going to actually agree with me on this, I know it probably feels like a stretch if you haven't played with hiplop before

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
^this is hiplop's iso from buzzfeed mafia - the game only lasted two days due to a modkill d1, but it feels like hiplop is attacking people here in the same way and seems more concerned than I'm used to seeing about who gets lynched here, I expected him to be even more flippant than he actually is. If you still want individual posts I can go through his iso later tonight but it's a lot more of a general feel of his play in comparison to previous games with him.

[Gammagooey]

The people voting MoI, what do you think of his interactions with Imperium?

MoI had a few mentions of Imperium earlygame, calling him out for the super not-important question of whether Tammy is 'participating' (im assuming he just meant posting in thread because otherwise it seems retarded to even ask instead of just not-important) and they had some minor interaction after that when imperium quoted several people in a row with questions/comments and MoI was one of them, and later than that they talked about their mutual scumreads on each other but never bothered actually voting one another. To me it looks most like Imperium and MoI distancing from each other with a plan to bus each other if necessary later in the game.

The only thing that gave me pause when I was going through it was this -

My problem with Imperium’s Waco case is basically Imperium – I’m having a hard time getting a Town read on Nacho’s posting and thought process. I could go through his case right now and lay out why I don’t see the points he made as compelling but I’m just going to say that I didn’t buy into it when I first read it and leave it at that. After all giving 100% of my thoughts to the thread isn’t an exercise I’m going to engage in when there are many other examples of players keeping their reasoning “close to the vest”. The Waco push looks very much to me like a “designated fall guy” push from Imperium not an honest scum-hunting effort.

It's a little harder than I'd expect for regular scum distancing, and I'd expect from this that MoI would have definitely been planning to vote Imperium on either d2 or d3 here if Imperium was still alive and there wasn't a big game shakeup that refocused everyone. And though I don't think they would have wanted to actually lynch each other that early, I can definitely see scum-MoI pushing on Imperium at that time without the expectation that a serious wagon would form on Imperium for it.

[Gammagooey]

bleh

i guess MoI isn't happening so I'll read over some more later tonight and then actually do something useful with my vote after

[Gammagooey]

@Zulfy- I'd be happy to be proven wrong but MoI went up to about 5 votes earlier today (game day), the wagon basically immediately went back down to 3, and now it's at just me and one other person on it immediately after I try to pull people onto it for the second time. I'm the only one actually arguing for it instead of just being willing to do it so it seems really unlikely to happen from the feel of the game I have- I haven't gone through individual player's opinions on him like you did but it's been 2-3 days since I started pushing, I think pretty much everyone's popped in at some point or another since then (except for MoI himself, funnily enough) and nobody else seemed like they wanted to do MoI specifically over the other current wagons.

Also you seemed to abandon the idea later in your post anyway but trying to actively pull people off of their wagons onto MoI like I've done here would be absolutely retarded if we were scum together.

[Gammagooey]

@Snowstorm- It's true that it wouldn't be the best most perfect scum play, but I don't think that a lot of players actually aim to do the theoretical best thing for scum in most situations since that's exactly what people tend to assume what scum actually did/tried later. A lot of people just tend to try to emulate their town game as scum, and that type of behavior MoI did with the 'is tammy posting' poking early game I think is more likely to come from scum seeing something they know is scummy and trying to react to it like they might as town than town get riled up over basically nothing. I also think that if MoI and Imperium could have pulled off a wagon on Imperium d2 with MoI at the forefront but keep Imperium alive until day 3 or 4 (and given the number of people townreading Imperium day 1, I think that's a pretty reasonable possibility) MoI would have been able to pretty easily ride out the rest of the game and have a lot of influence in future wagons because of it.

--

I don't think this is going to happen but either MoI can become a viable wagon from it or I get to prove Zulfy wrong so it's a win-win for that at least

HEY EVERYONE
If you want MoI lynched over any of the current wagons, say specifically which ones in your next post so we can know if it'll be viable once the wagons consolidate in a day or so without having to bounce around between wagons and slow everything down.

eh
yeah it's literally just me on MoI now

no worries ceph.

[Gammagooey]

Gamma’s meta excuse for hiplop being Town is suspect given I’ve already linked another game with hiplops–

viewtopic.php?t=66865&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=15569&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_sort=Go

Where his posting was very similar to here and he was scum in that game. So it’s clearly just his posting style and not alignment indicative at all. And Gamma has already told me he is a solid Town player so I question that pass being issued to hiplop.

I don't blame you for not agreeing with my hiplop read because his play is generally unreadable, but his play here feels just BETTER in every way from the actual town game I've seen him in already. It's pretty clear through my iso already that there's I think there's an outside chance of him being scum, but when 'better in every way' is how he started this game, I REALLY don't want him dead on day 2.

You thinking that Tammy doesn't post much and that the slot is more likely scum if she's not posting is fine, but you posted about it 8 hours into the game - it felt really weird to me that you'd instantly ask about that instead of waiting to see if Tammy was doing any distinct posting of her own before calling it out and basically letting them know that's what you were expecting them to do scum.

And

I have plenty of indications in my ISO that I’m Town. My whole Imperium interactions are front and center case number 1. And you are working double-time to explain those away as “bussing”. Your whole argument is “He doesn’t show Town tells” and many other players point them out you go to an Appeal to Proficency argument saying “Well he’s good enough as scum to make them” and sidestepping the issue that your “not seeing Towntells” is busted.

You don't feel town from your posting here, the Imperium stuff is the only reason to think you're town here at all and I think it's pretty possible that it could be coming from you as scum. And it's also possible that I've missed these other people pointing out posts of yours that they think are town, but the only actually substantiated thing I remember being brought up to argue for you-town was SnowStorm asking what I thought of your play regarding him and commenting on the posts I brought up regarding you.

------------

I went over a few big chunks of game which included a lot of DS stuff, but I'd still rather do this.
VOTE: SnarkySnowman

I can see myself potentially being wrong on DS here, I initially thought I saw a kind of 'click' in DS's posting when he started thinking Firebringer was lying about the guilty on spiff, but after going over it again though he did have a point where he went from talking about possible framers and non-sane cops to just being convinced fire was lying, the potential framing/sanity issues were brought up by other people first and even from the very first post he made about the claim he was talking about it possibly being fake or a gambit. But I also think that it's fairly possible that he as town that had just seen terrible gambit bullshit go wrong reacted that way because of it, and though his recent posting isn't good it's also not enormously likely to be coming from scum either.

I also think most people would have said something similar day 1 about him looking town but bad before he was a part of all the personal bullshit that happened around then, and though I know opening DS's iso causes feelings of revulsion and minor existential crises, if people on the DS wagon can look at his early-mid d1 play again and say if they think the more recent stuff is specifically bad enough in their eyes to overlook what I think looks fairly town early game, I'd really really appreciate it.

[Gammagooey]

I also think most people would have said something similar day 1 about him looking town but bad before he was a part of all the personal bullshit that happened around then, and though I know opening DS's iso causes feelings of revulsion and minor existential crises, if people on the DS wagon can look at his early-mid d1 play again and say if they think the more recent stuff is specifically bad enough in their eyes to overlook what I think looks fairly town early game, I'd really really appreciate it.

I know the post this was in was huge but if you're still on DS I'd still really like to see your opinion on this

The posts around DS's claim feel a bit town too. Whereas snarky's iso is awful and deserves hot, hot death.

[Gammagooey]

see when i look at an iso that has more than 300 posts on day 2, i question a lot of things.

shouldn't i be doing something else with my time than reading this? what makes a person so unable to shut up and let the thread think? is life an illusion, with all its wonders simply constructed to find how much inanity humanity can sort through?

things like that.

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: MoI

MoI's hammer post on snarky where he makes an excuse for hammering him saying HEY IF YOU'RE TOWN OH WELL is so so bad and I seriously don't understand why some the people on the DS wagon are actually on it instead of him unless you all are absolutely convinced nothing else is going to get done unless he gets lynched, and I don't think that's actually the case. It feels like half the people there are just getting him out of the way because he seems generally scumread and I REALLY don't want DS lynched unless the people on his wagon actually think he's scum. We have two weeks to go through the game and I really don't want to autopilot this and just lynched based on what everyone's assuming instead of going into exactly why people are scumreading DS after his early play (and I think his response to someone saying it'd be fine to lynch him and recalibrate/follow his reads afterwards feels really town too).

Like I know I'm just rambling a bit here but if you really think DS is scum please actually go through his early d1 play for me and his tone and the way he's responded to people for everything except the Firebringer bullshit. I said this yesterday and I know I could be wrong here but it feels so much like people are just glossing over his early play because he's irritating.

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: MoI

MoI's hammer post on snarky where he makes an excuse for hammering him saying HEY IF YOU'RE TOWN OH WELL is so so bad and I seriously don't understand why some the people on the DS wagon are actually on it instead of him unless you all are absolutely convinced nothing else is going to get done unless he gets lynched, and I don't think that's actually the case. It feels like half the people there are just getting him out of the way because he seems generally scumread and I REALLY don't want DS lynched unless the people on his wagon actually think he's scum. We have two weeks to go through the game and I really don't want to autopilot this and just lynched based on what everyone's assuming instead of going into exactly why people are scumreading DS after his early play (and I think his response to someone saying it'd be fine to lynch him and recalibrate/follow his reads afterwards feels really town too).

Like I know I'm just rambling a bit here but if you really think DS is scum please actually go through his early d1 play for me and his tone and the way he's responded to people for everything except the Firebringer bullshit. I said this yesterday and I know I could be wrong here but it feels so much like people are just glossing over his early play because he's irritating.

[Gammagooey]

I'd say Snarky was more obvious scum than DS is but he still flipped town

Like we have time and I think there's a pretty damn decent chance DS is town, and I really want to talk over some of his posts and his mindset with someone at least and see if I can get people to either understand the stuff that I'm seeing or tell me I'm stupid for thinking that because <thing i overlooked or am discounting for dumb reasons or etc etc etc>

I'll bring up some posts of his later tonight, don't have time to sift through his iso atm.

[Gammagooey]

I'm legitimately sorry for how many posts are in here but the best way I can describe why I think DS is likely town is through a kind of general overview of how I've seen his play this game. The quoted posts should be fairly skimmable aside from the last chunk with Imperium though.

It really looks like DS was legitimately trying to scumhunt and actually progress people's reads early day 1 especially, but that sort of blunt, <this is exactly why I did this thing or think this thing> mindset I think continues throughout the game. Early day 2 when he's disagreeing with Magna, he's a bit combatative and the tone of his statement there reads to me 'I think my vote's better than yours but eh you could be right too' and his posting right afterwards shows that exact same mindset. It just feels like he's being genuine with his reads and comments and not really giving a shit about irritating people or looking scummy along the way.

The interactions he has with Imperium I think make more sense with him as town than scum when looking at the whole too. individually, I could see the posts there as being between two scumbuddies, but when looked at as a whole it really seems like Imperium is willing to flip onto DS at a moment's notice if it looks like it got serious traction, and I don't think Imperium would have wanted to give nearly as much attention to a scumbuddy as he did here.

Spoiler: one of the early pages with DS

@Kuroi

If you argued that I didn't make a scumslip (yes, I know arguing is a bit of a misnomer), then why would you vote for me?

Correction please. If you were voting for me, then why would you bother arguing that I didn't scumslip.

Are you one of those "everything has to be for a specific reason" peoppe

No. It's just that, if there's a reason, I want it to make sense.

Which in my head is throwing off red flags because why as early as Day 1 do we need to have anyone make any claims to even begin discussion on who is scummy or not.

So, your thoughts are that DS is scum trying to seem like he's doing something while not scumhunting?

Especially after getting on to Grib for not wanting to RVS and then claiming to be Facetous after people start to get onto him.

Does DS not come across as sarcastic in that post to you? The vote is immediately followed up with this:

Trust me. This is a 100% solid fact. I would never lie to you. Mostly because I'm town, but also because lying should be done as sparingly as possible.

Does this read as something that he needs to backtrack on?

Grib, from what I've read so far just seems to be defending himself from DS' attacks onto him for not wanting to RVS.

How are you reading him from this conclusion.

Cheetory, why do you think that KDowns has thrown such a poorly made chainsaw defense at me over my episode with Grib?

Objection. The prosecution is leading the witness.

Sustained.

Mr. Cheetory. Why would KDowns have felt the desire to make

a

chainsaw defense against me, in the defense of Gribs?

Because, as we all know, this is very blatantly a chainsaw defense.

I'm not accusing him of partnering. I'm accusing him of trying to garner a cult of personality. Or a harem. Either way, he's trying to wedge his way into a townbloc that isn't even a thing yet.

Of course, they could both be scum, but that's just ridiculous.

Spoiler: later d1

Can we hurry up and lynch this kid. I could really use a new day.

Can we hurry up and lynch this kid. I could really use a new day.

This is suspicious. Wanting to lynch this "kid" means that you can have another day OR maybe avoid this lynch so that you can kill this night huh?

Neither.

It's so that we can get out of fucking day 1. I hate D1 with a fiery passion. It's 100% speculation.

Spoiler: late d1 and d2

In all honesty, it's because Ceph's attitude is really pissing me off so I want him out.

1. It was an RVS vote.

2. I didn't say that you were a terrible person or swear at you.

3. Your attitude was (and sorta kinda still is) pretty terrible.

Interesting.

VOTE: keyenpeydee

(Hiplop dies later. keyen gets rope right now)

Interesting. VOTE: keyenpeydee(Hiplop dies later. keyen gets rope right now)

Not unless you are claiming Night actions he doesn't.

Key can be lynched at any time. hiplop is like that frustrating mold that takes tons of work to clear out. Just look at Firebringer's recent Legends of the Hidden Speakeasy. We need as many not-scum alive as possible to take care of this mold infestation. The longer he lingers the more effective his partners will be in keeping him alive.

How about this. Both of us leave our mostly naked votes, and see which one the rest of the town likes best.

How about this. Both of us leave our mostly naked votes, and see which one the rest of the town likes best.

Nope. I gave in to letting Town and scum come together for a god-awful mislynch yesterday behind the leadership of Imperiuym and I'm done letting Town be led around blindly.

Why were you so eager to hammer a player who was obviously Town yesterday BTW?

Eh, at that point, I figured I might have been misreading them, so I didn't really care.

But I am quite confident in the murder of keyen being a good thing.


Also, I elect that I be the next town leader. Follow me blindly plox.

Spoiler: IMPERIUM WORDS this is enormous and im sorry

Vote: DiamondSentinel

Why are you asking negative utility roles to out when it's a part of the meta that you want to change?

and i think this is the only player that i've played with that this holds true for
if i have a bunch of townreads elsewhere that i feel good about then sure it's snarky time but otherwise probably not, regardless of case

Can you read me, Nacho/Tammy (I don't know which one this is). I don't think you can. Very few can read me consistently.

this is something that many people have also said before
it doesn't often hold true, though

Oh yes. This has been the general trend of conversation, Imperium.

who is your current pick for scum?

Also the Snarky wagon dissipating on Nachos cute but irrelevant “Oh, no-one can read him” tale I think will be a great place to start looking for bussers who hopped at the first sign of an easy exit.

@Imperium – why are you ignoring my question about Tammy’s participation in the hydra?

My cute but irrelevant tale is why I personally am not voting him at this point in time; I've also responded to your case and where I felt it went wrong, so if you're looking to actually talk why you think that Snarky is scum with me, I'd recommend that as a good jumping off point.

I didn't ignore your question about Tammy's participation; if the question is "why hasn't she posted yet?" she hasn't participated yet because she is also sick and starting her new semester next week, and thus her priorities lie there.

Can we hurry up and lynch this kid. I could really use a new day.

This is suspicious. Wanting to lynch this "kid" means that you can have another day OR maybe avoid this lynch so that you can kill this night huh?

Neither.

It's so that we can get out of fucking day 1. I hate D1 with a fiery passion. It's 100% speculation.

I'd argue that your posts have been mostly speculation and nothing but and I expected a bit more from you by now, but I suppose I don't actually remember playing a game with you from the start, so meh.

You played Machina mafia with me.

And you should recognize that my behavior lines up almost exactly with that game.

i don't remember your behavior from Machina, all I remember is a townread that I don't really have here although that could be in part to not really reading the entire day. I don't think that your scumhunting has been anything impressive or memorable (your vote on camntsuki is a holdover from RVS, right?), you've been quick to chime in on useless conversations but nothing that seems like it could possibly be going anywhere. I'm willing to give you time since the paranoia will inevitably set in if you're town.

Ok. That self-vote deserves a lynch with fire.


Town should NEVER EVER SELF VOTE.

should never =/= don't ever

I'm going to let you guys have your fun for the rest of the day. I will only vote to hammer (so don't take someone to L-1 if you don't want them dead).

Why? Tbh I don't even trust you to be the one to Hammer.


Also tbh I am reading Hip town. Then again last time I played with Hip was years ago.

also gotta say i'm liking this kdowns post

@Farside:

These are some examples of DS posts that I was talking about in that paragraph on him.

@MoI

Setup speculation typically works well. Shos' game was an entirely different situation (and still bullshit. It was borderline bastard. "You are unable to be killed [except by these sources which you have no idea about]". There's a difference between swingy and lying to people)

Additionally, there are a variety of situations that Farside's claim could turn up badly. One that I'm thinking of is a ludicrous claim that she then points back to it and says "see, I was already talking about it from day 1" (I don't know exactly how it would work. I'm quite terrible at lying or figuring out ways in which someone would lie in some made-up, hypothetical situation)

This is talking about you (who claimed you had a flavor that might be contrary to expectations). As scum, I don't think it takes an extraordinary amount of effort to talk about how maybe your Negative Utility Claim that wasn't a negative utility claim at all (but if there's an expectation for him to be active I can see him filling up his posts with stuff like this), whereas I don't understand why he's talking about it now as town when he's continually reminded us that he will be alive Day 3/4 (and thus isn't worried about dying before rooting this out).

Man, this wagon really doesn't have any resistance.

And hadn't it popped up in like two days?

We need a counter wagon...

This is an extraordinarily weak resistance to a wagon that wasn't particularly driven in the first place; the picture that I have in my mind when reading this post is the Snarky wagon being a small child pushing around one of those toy mowers with the plastic balls bouncing around and DiamondSentinel being a drunk parent on the front lawn mumbling something unintelligible to himself before passing out yet again, and is a good example of what I mean by "active, present, but not really giving a fuck". He's around. He's commenting on it. But it's pretty clear to me that it doesn't care.

and i think this is the only player that i've played with that this holds true for
if i have a bunch of townreads elsewhere that i feel good about then sure it's snarky time but otherwise probably not, regardless of case

Can you read me, Nacho/Tammy (I don't know which one this is). I don't think you can. Very few can read me consistently.

And then instead of commenting on the Snarky wagon, DS just wants to know whether we can read him or not.
Who cares? What does this have to do with anything going on in the thread right now?

Yeah, time to start playing. You've had a slight issue with this in both games I've been in with you (and I don't really care about your excuse for it)

I mean, I am playing?

"You don't play mafia the way I think everyone should play it, therefore you aren't playing it."

You know what happens when everyone spams up the thread with incoherent walls of shit? The game becomes massively unfun.

So I'll leave that to you while I both don't shit up the thread and end up with better reads than you (assuming you are, in fact, town, which I'm not particularly compelled to believe at this point).

Actually, I was more talking about how you have an issue with lurking. Not like PV does. But still, it's an issue at times (again, don't care about the reasons)

I'm not sure whether to respond with condescending snark or actual content, so you get both.

1) And I'm still a better player than you. What does that say about your spamming up the thread every fucking game
2) A certain portion of the game needs to lurk at various parts of the game, especially in a large. Lurking with 5-7 people left? Yeah, problem. Lurking because it's day 1 of a large game and people are spamming everywhere and you want day 1 to not hit 100 pages

again

? Correct.

Not to mention contextual lurking based on PR-play and mixups for PR play, but I don't really think you have the nuance to employ those tactics so I'll leave it at that.

I thought you said you were going to be snarky. Not facetious. The fact that you would put 2 completely different playstyles up beside each other and said objectively that one is better than the other is ridiculous. I won't get into why it's ridiculous now, but expect a nice long rant post-game.

Also, you lurking will not stop a game from reaching 100 pages on its own. If it's going to reach that far, then give content so that people can actually read you. Cool? Cool.

This is the "BRO, produce content so I can read you!" post. It was a strange post for him to make because while he has been posting a lot, sure, but actual content or even questioning that he's produced has been pretty close to absent.

[Gammagooey]

@Aris- Why are you voting DS now, especially right after I JUST asked people to give actual reasons for why they think DS is scum and said I wanted to make sure that people weren't voting DS just because it seemed inevitable? Can you at least unvote until people actually have a chance to go over the posts I've made about him?

@hiplop- ^that plus why do you think nacho was framing snarky in particular?

[Gammagooey]

weee it's both of hiplop and aris ignoring fucking everything i have to say (along with most of the rest of the game)

VOTE: hiplop

MoI had a decent point about what I said about him given that he was attacking bro and kdowns for most of that day. pointing out 'buuuut transcend did the same thing' is stupid, he didn't make a bullshit excuse for voting him and cheetory looked really town before he replaced out and transcend feels gut town anyway, but MoI's apparently still not getting lynched today anyway so whaaatever

agree with ceph that kraska seemed town from the vague memories of her play, but if it wasn't MoI as the only person on his wagon I could probably deal with that too, it feels better than the DS wagon at least. the only actual good thing in his own iso is him hating on MoI and although that's a clearly amazing thing that everyone should do, it's not actually something that points to him being town.

[Gammagooey]

um. did you forget I wasn't fucking here for day 1? I replaced in.

[Gammagooey]

so because cheetory looked town and transcend feels a bit town and transcend did something similar to you except he didn't add some bullshit to absolve him of responsibility for the lynch, I'm manufacturing reads because I'm didn't scumread him too. I'll admit I'm probably a bit biased in finding you scummy more than others would because I despise your play in general but that's fucking stupid MoI.

[Gammagooey]

@Aris- Why are you voting DS now, especially right after I JUST asked people to give actual reasons for why they think DS is scum and said I wanted to make sure that people weren't voting DS just because it seemed inevitable? Can you at least unvote until people actually have a chance to go over the posts I've made about him?

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: hiplop

finally a wagon i like as opposed to dealing with all these shithammers

still townier than MoI by miles

[Gammagooey]

Given you are going to be waiting for eternity what do you think of neither DS or Gamma actually checking to see if it was the hammer and their reactions?

so are you gonna be wrong about literally everything you have to say about me? Transcend did the same thing yesterday too, it seemed better to see if hiplop actually came in and said anything about it.

[Gammagooey]

Transcend did the same thing yesterday too, it seemed better to see if hiplop actually came in and said anything about it.

Which means that hiplop scum will know to react just as hiplop Town would. So it's an empty reaction test and you should know that. It's not like hiplop is some newb ...

yeah you have to take it with a few grains of salt

doesn't mean it's completely useless, if he actually came in and made a rushed claim it'd be more readable than what he's doing now regardless of what alignment he is here

doesn't really matter anymore though

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: MoI
I'm going to go ahead and claim for the most part too since I don't think MoI and Grib both make sense as town given that I have a roleblock too and it seems like they're both claiming to have either that or a jailkeep

I'm Gretchen Grundler from Recess, with 3 1-shot abilities- a watch that I used on MJ last night and saw nobody with, a roleblock, and one more ability I'd rather not claim yet if I don't have to. the flavor is roughly that I don't want to leave my friends, but I can learn things to protect them so it's worth it.

[Gammagooey]

I would expect another investigative role of some kind, another joat definitely wouldn't have been my immediate guess until now though

since it's actually relevant now my last ability is a hide, and I've asked eleven already if I can get a little bit more specific on the flavor for the abilities

[Gammagooey]

@ceph-there's a not small chance of me getting lynched and I don't think bro and I will share any abilities, I'd rather not get people worked up about me not claiming all of my abilities and have them go off into dumb theories about how I'm scum for trying to keep the last ability hidden after being counterclaimed.

[Gammagooey]

eleven got back to me and i can claim the ability names, they're telescope glasses for the watch, the secret of Yo(-Yo) for the roleblock, and Malaria Net Tent for the hide

[Gammagooey]

@MoI- how is commuterizer different from a jailkeeper?

[Gammagooey]

yeeeeeeeep

tbf all of these are actually more late-game stuff if you think you're going to live that long but I doubt that's why he didn't use any of them.

[Gammagooey]

^that was at MoI

Bro had to have used the voyeur n1, he didn't show up visiting n2

[Gammagooey]

This is a reminder that MoI's play this game has been trash and that I really don't think there'd be 3 roleblocking abilities in the game, even if mine is one-shot

also that there's no reason why the commuterizer can't be either a scum equivalent of a jailkeeper or a fakeclaim for one

and yeah this isn't super useful but I don't have time to go over stuff until tomorrow, I'll go over stuff in more detail then.

[Gammagooey]

The board went down for a bit while I was making this so if the quotes seem slightly fucked it's because they are.

Reading MoI's posts individually don't come across as town at all. He doesn't have any town reads that ever actually

need

to be defended with the exception of Waco, which I'll get to in a bit, he's been pushing on a pile of likely/flipped town players the whole game, and I really don't think his Imperium read was genuine.

I don't think anyone would disagree that MoI and Imperium's interactions could have been scum/scum until pretty close to the end of day 1 when MoI mentions that Waco's likely town because of gut and because he's Imperium's fall guy for the day and solidifies that read. MoI comes out of the start of the game already prodding at Imperium for Tammy possibly not posting, harps on another of Imp's early posts and eventually has a long series of interactions with Imperium where they split off reads of snarky and camntsuki and waco kid, with MoI town reading all of them except waco and Imperium doing the reverse, and MoI tying both of snarky and camnsuki to Imperium.

And then day 2 rolls around with Imperium dead, and MoI votes hiplop instead of either of the people he was just commenting on being scum with Imperium the previous day. It really feels like MoI is trying to save lynching them for later when it'll be more important and the interactions he brought up earlier will pay off better, I dislike MoI responding to Ceph's question of Why Waco is town with 'gut and imp is scum' when I don't think the amount of suspicion MoI attacked Imp with makes sense from Imp's posts alone, (and as a very minor point I don't think MoI is really much of a gut player at all), and MoI hammering Snarky with a comment that seems to expect him to flip town despite MoI having a scum read on snarky for all of day 1 and as his 3rd highest scumread day 2 feels SO, SO awful.

Lastly, if you were here when the claiming clusterfuck happened, you probably saw a slight change of play from MoI that Bro mentioned. Once the gamestate changed to something actually threatening to him, he immediately bumped up his activity slightly, but more than that it actually started feeling like he was engaged with the game whereas he never needed to be before, and I think that's way more likely to be coming from scum than town.

SOME MOI WORDS

Spoiler: MoI commenting to Ceph about Waco-town/Imp-scum

In post 1549, Cephrir wrote:
at least when i disagree with someone you can usually tell why i disagree with them -- you're handwaving imperium's push and i don't understand what your reasoning is for doing so


Is this the part where I say “I have a gut read that Waco isn’t scum that I can’t fully explain”?

Yes that’s a little snarky. But I think it is in line with the tone of the thread, especially a large number of posts I’ve had to deal with.

My problem with Imperium’s Waco case is basically Imperium – I’m having a hard time getting a Town read on Nacho’s posting and thought process. I could go through his case right now and lay out why I don’t see the points he made as compelling but I’m just going to say that I didn’t buy into it when I first read it and leave it at that. After all giving 100% of my thoughts to the thread isn’t an exercise I’m going to engage in when there are many other examples of players keeping their reasoning “close to the vest”. The Waco push looks very much to me like a “designated fall guy” push from Imperium not an honest scum-hunting effort.

Can I be wrong. Sure, maybe. I’m guessing we will know very soon.

[/quote]

Spoiler: a bunch of MoI's comments on Snarky

I’m inclined to read Snarky as scum for 64 especially after all the commentary on how he’s not going to do anything.

I regret engaging Cheetory on Snarky when he first questioned my Snarky read if only because in hindsight I probably should have given Snarky some more rope to hang himself with. But that’s out the door. 64 is not a post Town Snarky makes. His complete lack of reaction to my post on my success of reading him in the past makes sense from a scum perspective. I had called him scum but my vote was still on Diamond. Best course of action is not to “poke the bear” and maybe let my early read wash away in the obvious tidal wave of posts every Large game gets Day 1.

On top of Snarky and hiplop I’d also be satisfied with a camntsuki wagon after that weak-ass entrance. After supposedly reading 24 pages of material.

eh snarky gets lynched day one like literally every game

Nope. In fact he didn’t get lynched as Town Day 1 in any of my joint games with him. Try again to dissuade a wagon on him?

It just

never feels good to lynch that snowman

Yup you did.

snarky being lynchbait is irrefutable, is what I am saying

Ooo and again.

VOTE: snarky

trusting you. Can't read the snowman

And the 180 based 100% on sheeping others when you’ve just made multiple statements about how he’s not a good lynch?

Awkward Bus Hop Engage!

MoI - Hopped on me like page 12 or something. Is not a current vote.

I know he generally dislikes my play though, so not sure if that has any effect on it.

I just voted him on page 28 or so specifically after he claimed to have missed my bad and forth with Cheet on page 13. So it not being a current vote is purely incorrect.

And the bolded makes me confident that he's scum. Because he knows what I Town read him I don't push him and actively try to lynch scum-reads. Like in Inspirational when I lynched scum looking to lynch him. Or in Open 633 where I tried to lynch scum Ranger and specifically said I didn't see any scum motivation in his play. Even after games like Fire and Ice Mafia where he chose to wagon me at deadline with absolutely no reasoning instead of helping hammer the scum counterwagon I had pushed all Day 2.

Also the Snarky wagon dissipating on Nachos cute but irrelevant “Oh, no-one can read him” tale I think will be a great place to start looking for bussers who hopped at the first sign of an easy exit.

@Imperium

– why are you ignoring my question about Tammy’s participation in the hydra?

So Medical Junkies just claimed to be 100% Mod Confirmed Day 2. So that is a self-solving problem and anyone still clinging to a lynch on that slot can be scum.


--

People who "project town" end up dead, mostly. And most endgames are a bunch of lurkertown and a bunch of scumzors, and the games suck and scum win.

Complains about how it is Pro-scum to not “project Town”. Proudly states it is what they are doing.

Lynch away!

w/e. I'm going to bed, but if this wagon builds steam:
We are Clifford, The big Red Dog, and we are Vanilla.

g'night! Lynch us if you want!

A VT claim with like 4 total votes?

More Camnt votes. This needs to happen today.

708 has zero scum-hunting. They vote Snarky without a hint of about why. The mudslinging on Grib is fluff. And there’s some buddying to Ceph but that’s not scum hunting either.

In post 1219, Imperium wrote:
My cute but irrelevant tale is why I personally am not voting him at this point in time; I've also responded to your case and where I felt it went wrong, so if you're looking to actually talk why you think that Snarky is scum with me, I'd recommend that as a good jumping off point.

I didn't ignore your question about Tammy's participation; if the question is "why hasn't she posted yet?" she hasn't participated yet because she is also sick and starting her new semester next week, and thus her priorities lie there.


Frankly I don’t think there is much to discuss. You basically asserted that no-one was able to read Snarky successfully. And a whole bunch of Null to Scum players took that ball and ran with it. Suffice it to say I disagree with you but the horse is out of the barn and I’m not going to waste time trying to convince you that my opinion holds merit when you’ve clearly made up your mind given the evidence I already laid out.

And yeah – you did ignore it ipso facto when there was not comment 1 made about it. I don’t know fact 1 about Tammy’s off board life and it feels like I was somehow expected to have some psychic power to be able to derive those facts given the lack of response.

In post 1406, Imperium wrote:
Your case on Snarky seems to be that he didn't respond to you saying that you could read him successfully.
I don't think this is a significant case based on Snarky's lack of reading comprehension which he demonstrated quite soundly in Near Vanilla.
Do you have a rebuttal to that?


You’ve simplified the case that’s for sure. I’ll leave sorting why you did that for later.

The case on Snarky starts with 64. That post is that I feel comes from Town Snarky on page 3 of a game. You can disagree with me but I’m fairly confident in my assessment. He’s quantifying that he has preferred wagons (aka players he thinks are scum) based on 60ish posts into the game. That in itself should be a warning sign.

The second portion you mentioned above – my comment about my feel of Snarky as scum led to a back and forth with Cheet where he asked me to show my Snarky reading credentials. Snarky’s play around this I think has strong scum motivations. At that point despite me saying I thought he could be scum I had my vote on another candidate in Diamond. Scum Snarky poking at my assessment in any way ran the risk of me following through on my gut read and move to wagon him. Town Snarky on the other hand I can see saying something to the effect of “MoI you’ve always read me as Town correctly as you pointed out what is different here?”. Hell he might even get a scum read of me for it if he was Town. And yes I’ve seen your “Snarky doesn’t pay attention” comment that I disagree with. In Open 633 it certainly wasn’t a case that he wasn’t reading that got him lynched. It was that he chose to scum read Radiant and poked Radiant’s fragile ego. And in none of the other Town games I’ve had with Snarky has there ever been any sort of “Oops, I’m behind” excuse from him. He simply doesn’t address it.

The third portion is his reaction to the wagon – he immediately plays the “I’m Low Hanging Fruit” card. Again from our shared experience in Open 633 he didn’t use play that card. He stuck to his guns on scum-reading Radiant and only mentioned that he gets lynched to confirm what other players said about him.

Lastly (and this has not been explicitly explained in thread by me before) – this game he shows no signs of having actual reads. Open 633 once again highlights this – he drew a read on Radiant and pushed it. He also (incorrectly) pushed reads on yourself, Oceanwind and Bellaphant as scum. Here he’s popping in to stay active but has no drive to his posts. He’s basically actively lurking after he got early pressure.

So yes, there’s your rebuttal.

I also find it interesting that you’ve expressed as desire to get rid of non-performing slots and specifically don’t want to get rid of slots that “might improve” given that you have actively fought against Snarky as being a good lynch. Because of all the players in the game he certainly fits the definition of players who don’t carry their own weight and there is no historic expectation that it will change as days go on. Inspirational Mafia is an example – he was a Town Rolestopper who didn’t Rolestop protect a claimed Neopolitan and once the Neopolitan was Nightkilled and flipped Town didn’t Rolestop protect the confirmed Vanilla Town player the Neopolitan had cleared.

And yet Snarky isn’t anywhere to be seen on your radar. I have issues with the discontinuity in your posting and stated motivation and subsequent play.

[Gammagooey]

Yeah the abilities are in the abilities along with the *you can vote* ability, not in the flavor section. The "flavor" I was talking about was just the ability names, which I asked Eleven if I could claim specifically to make sure I didn't get modkilled for role PM bullshit.

@Grib- MJ was still considered to be fairly scummy by most of the game despite Bro confirming them as town, and I thought there was a decent chance that the mafia would think it would be a safe kill that would off a confirmed town, and had a bonus of possibly catching a SK too with no ambiguity about them possibly being a vig and risking outing them prematurely. I didn't really consider using the hide on DS, I figured that there was a pretty decent chance he'd just get shot if the vig/SK wanted to look pro-town, and if I was wrong about DS and died I'd lose the watch that seemed way more important to use.

[Gammagooey]

@Grib- you realize that every one of my abilities interferes with mafia getting to kill the person they want to right? Part of the reason I claimed when I did was because I don't think it's likely there are 3 roles that can stop kills in the setup, much less a 4th still hidden in case you get roleblocked. It's much more likely that you stopped a kill on Ceph or that the mafia hit the SK than MoI, you, and I all having kill-stopping roles. I'm probably not living through hiding behind anyone announced tonight, but if it needs to happen I'd rather do it on someone like SnowStorm or Zulfy and either have a confirmed scum along with everyone knowing that Magna is really likely scum as well, or just have me and a town player that looked likely to be scum get dead along with MoI getting lynched tomorrow.

Like, what's the 'good' scenario to come out of me hiding behind MoI? Because it looks like either you get roleblocked if we're both town and we both die, or MoI is scum and I die and everyone goes 'oh yeah MoI and Gamma and Grib's roles prob weren't all town anyway, guess we shoulda lynched MoI yesterday'

[Gammagooey]

Could we lynch snowstorm instead?

Why do you think MoI is town? Or not worth lynching today or whatever, I don't remember you saying much about him this game.

[Gammagooey]

it's pretty obvious from my iso i think but I'd rather do hiplop than DS here if today continues looping around to the same thing that we started with

Grib (and anyone else that's around and wants to help the game be a little better) can you give me your opinion on MoI's actual play before that happens though? I know you're probably not going to vote him given his claim but I really want people to at least go over him and consider whether his actual play makes more sense as town than scum before the day ends.

[Gammagooey]

and mostly to bro, i think you're right that hiplop lurking his ass off isn't alignment related for the most part and DS has acted like an ass for solid chunks of the game but I don't think DS claims VT and acts this way and I can see hiplop getting swamped with life bullshit as either alignment and doing what he's done here. and hiplop has made a few bad posts today about nacho framing snarky and his comment about him being cleared for spiffeh being killed. I'm not confident about it but I think hiplop at least has a decent chance of being scum.

[Gammagooey]

If hiplop flips scum, it'll be among the most surprising flips I've ever experienced.

if the reason isn't *words words DS wagon words words* I'd like to hear why

if it is then whatever

[Gammagooey]

@Snow- Because I think DS looks way more likely to be town than scum. Hiplop doesn't look like a likely buddy for MoI but it does look possible at least too.

[Gammagooey]

Hey DS, if you're still around

If you had to call the entire scum team now, what would be your picks? I don't care if you have something like a one out of [x,y,z] in your reasoning but what you think is the most likely scum team overall is what I'm looking for in particular.

[Gammagooey]

disregard this if you're leading up to it already and the above was just notes/thoughts/whatev

but i was hoping for like one single answer of this person + this person + this person, I might have phrased that a bit badly

yeah I know it's not realistic that you'll be right about everything but I want a single best guess

[Gammagooey]

I hid behind Transcend last night.

Need to check over some more stuff tonight but MoI actually looks pretty good from the Aris stuff I skimmed in his iso and his play did actually get better late yesterday (though I still think him only doing it when he finally had some suspicion fall on him is godamn horrific).

This seems like the best vote atm
VOTE: SnowStorm

[Gammagooey]

Cheetory looked really town early game, but Transcend seemed pretty demotivated yesterday- I didn't think he was a likely target for either of maf or the vig/sk and he might get pushed on later game for not doing a ton.

I'm also much happier with him as conftown than theoretically having magna being conftown considering I think Transcend will be more competent and influential than magna here would but that admittedly wasn't reeeally a big part of actually deciding to hide behind him over magna.

[Gammagooey]

No, I didn't crumb the hide. I didn't remember until after I had fullclaimed that the flips didn't include any flavor so I couldn't do anything that isn't public knowledge already as part of the crumb and have it be revealed when I flip, I'm pretty confident that anything obvious enough to get noticed as a crumb after the fact would have likely been noticed by the mafia and/or SK (though I actually wouldn't be at all surprised if it was actually just a vig at this point but that doesn't really matter atm) too, and I thought that there'd be multiple people pushing for my lynch if I didn't use the hide tonight so I targeted someone I thought was VERY likely town though not universally seen as such, and not likely to get hit by a nightkill. At least this way if I get lynched there's a clear from it, and it would have sucked balls if Transcend was a SK but it was absolutely worth that minor risk when compared to roleblocking last night instead and just getting lynched today anyway. (or theoretically getting killed if I was the maf target but I don't think that's actually a thing that happened.)

My role PM specifically states that I die if I target someone not aligned with the good characters (so Transcend is cleared of being the SK too) or if who I target is targeted for a kill btw.

@Snowstorm - it's just gut, I can go through and try to explain it better than that later tonight though.

[Gammagooey]

@MoI- He's cleared Ceph and hiplop of being the SK but not mafia when no mafia kills happened. theoretically he could be an fbi agent or there's some other wacky shenanigans but that's not the smart assumption here.

[Gammagooey]

Unless the SK has some strongman/ninja bullshit (which is possible, tbf), fbi agent is even worse than roleblocker in fucking over the SK when it seems like there are already plenty of roles that fuck with them already.

But go over Grib's posts since he said Ceph wasn't the SK if you want, it reads way more like a roleblocking role than an fbi agent. If he wants to say "HAHA,

Classic

misdirection" then sure whatever but I'd still bet on me being right here.

[Gammagooey]

I hid behind Transcend last night.

Need to check over some more stuff tonight but MoI actually looks pretty good from the Aris stuff I skimmed in his iso and his play did actually get better late yesterday (though I still think him only doing it when he finally had some suspicion fall on him is godamn horrific).

This seems like the best vote atm
VOTE: SnowStorm

Explain.

I don't like that if you had either gotten MoI lynched or if MoI had flipped town later your posts set you up for switching onto me afterwards, and from what I see of Aris's iso and yours I don't think you ever interacted with each other at all.

Why was I a town read for you when I first got ran up?

[Gammagooey]

hiplop after you claim can you just go through the list of alive people in the first post and give like a sentence on each with what you remember from them and what their read on them is? Like I wouldn't bother going through isos for it, just what do you think about the people in the game offhand. Cause I really doubt you're playing the way you have as scum but jesus christ you haven't done any particular alignment-readable thing since like day 1.

[Gammagooey]

Yeah, figured that was how it was gonna go since mid-yesterday

gg! Transcend carried literally the entire game on his back and I expect him to be nominated for a scummy before I wake up tomorrow and recheck the thread.

I don't think the scumteam did particularly well here, I was trying to drag Aris into the thread for pretty much all of day 3 to post any sort of content and Fire bussing me day 3 and being the catalyst for my wagon actually forming really, really hurt us when we were in an otherwise good position, and I knew I was screwed eventually as soon as I got counterclaimed and didn't post as much as I should have (especially in the mafia QT night 3, I thought it was possible MoI could target himself but didn't have any ideas on who was actually killable aside from people we needed to keep around to mislynch.) Didn't help that I had very very little free time for that night phase but I still should have put a little more effort into it.

Aside from Transcend, MoI and Grib were the only other two players that should get a bit of credit for the win - MoI targeting Grib was a good move, and targeting yourself every other night with that role is I think exactly how it should be played, and doing so made it much more powerful than if he had just used it as a straight doc. (I'd also say that him having used the role in that way pushed the setup to being slightly town-sided, but if most other players had gotten the role and played it a bit more typically that advantage wouldn't have existed.) I also don't think tracker was the right PR to give the mafia given that, since if MoI hadn't claimed we had tracked him the night before to Grib and were still planning on trying to kill him, and a mafia tracker seeing him commuterize someone would pretty naturally try to kill him the night after and fuck themselves over. Grib just looked really town for the whole game, got protected, helped to put suspicion on me, and was town enough to not get shot over the last scum.

Setup was good overall, playing in it was a chore with every day being a tunnel on town and it feeling like there was no way to do anything with that. and also being scum sux.

[Gammagooey]

Are all the role PMs posted somewhere? I want to see all the flavor stuff everyone else had