Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from V/LA and catching up. This thread is barely, if that, 48 hours old. If you have over 50 posts by the time I make this you are either scum looking to make this game unreadable or have no clue how bad spam posting is for Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Immediately I want to vote Giga for the statement “I’ve never not rolled Town” which is such a butchering of how statistics work that I should vote there on principle. But Creature did make a valid point – Giga went well out of the way to question the justification on an RVS vote.

Creature, where you expecting me to vote House because of his misapplied logic, or was it just the fact I reacted to a single vote that pinged you?

Might be my role PM biasing me but I don't see what's strange about that interaction.

Never mind Giga immediately supplies all the reasoning for why my vote probably will not be moving today.

The whole of that post is bad and the bolded especially so. I’m sad SlySly showed up to make his patented super-scummy posts and distracted everyone from the awkwardness and over-justification of Giga’s game entrances that is the hallmark of inexperienced scum.

VOTE: Giga

Giga flipping scum would put House immediately on the chopping block.

Also –

Neighborhoods, having friends to talk to via PMs, mixing up other large thread themes where people discuss someone's alt status...

This is so forced a response it isn’t even funny. Talking with friends about ongoing games (even those in frozen pre-game) is against site rules. So why would you talk about game strategy (is it a good idea to wagon an Alt Day 1?) with friends via PM and why even bring it up as a reason you knew there was an alt. The last reason isn’t a reason but a stretch to fill out a list.

no, i just anticipate people trying to figure out who you are being a massive waste of time when it's obvious why alts are made

fastest way to do that is PL the alt

I understand it is only page 4 but why isn’t this lynched by page 15?

--

Scared of alts and RVS votes. Probably scum or noob.

His stance to policy lynch day 1 is also Antitown.

Sad scum had the first two posts of the game.

I agree. McMenno's scum with Giga, but no one's biting.

Let's help house sort Zakk.

VOTE: Zakk

So my question – you seem to have correctly identified Giga as scum. Why did you never vote her but say “Nobody’s biting”?

Page 4 down …

Aside from Giga and House not too much alignment indicative so far. I’ll have to go back to look at zakk’s entrance in Sir Cakez’s Large Normal to get a better handle on what I think of him …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also – any discussion on flavor and how it affects alignment is a crap sandwhich and anyone focusing on it deserves bullets or rope ASAP. First this is a Bastard game and second I wager that I could give all the self-proclaimed experts each 15 chances to just guess my flavor character and everyone would fail.

Preliminarily zakk’s content from the first 4 pages looks more like Town actually trying to get reads than scum compared to Adventure Mafia but that is a very, very soft assessment. But his soft bomb / vengeful claim at 168 is scummy as hell. Town don’t soft that claim.

Moving to page 5 ..

Shiro gets an early “Will not press” pass for his first post Miller claim. Doesn’t make him Town but is absolutely the Pro-Town approach.

On the other hand Ank get demerits for his “Ooops, forgot this earlier” which on the heels of Shiro’s Pro-Town play. If I had to hang one of the two I’d absolutely hang Ank first. Also because he RVS voted Andy and that’s not cool given how long Andy has been away …

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House, why is it scummy to forget things in such a large theme? I'm pretty scatterbrained and town myself, so I mean...

also sly ank has to have the hammer now i guess so i'm going to force you to vote for your scumreads, kthnx

And as a reminder of the inherent scumminess of this slot …

There isn’t even an inkling of question in mind that Ank might not be Town. Immediate acceptance of that Ank should have the hammer. Not a trace of questioning of alignment to be seen. Because Giga knows that Ank isn’t scum faking.

And House sees it too at 136. I may have to revise my early House-Giga partner read.

Giga’s answer to Blade at 164 indicates a lack of actual scum-hunting.

where are you getting scared from? I know House and I think he has the logical ability to give an RVS vote that is correct.

Oh my god, seriously? Why is Giga still alive? A “correct” RVS vote? WTF has no-one ground this into the ground?

--

Oh Pepto can also be a viable lynch candidate for today is people don’t want Giga noosed.. 134 also reeks of awkwardness.

1. No vote on Sly when doing a manual tally on page 6 is trivial.
2. Excuse for not voting his scum suspect – he doesn’t want them at L-1. Whut? You want your scum suspects at L-0. The carefulness of voting betrays that he might well be scum who knows Sly isn’t his partner and a lol lynch might backlash on him.
3. Town-reading a scummy slot solely because it was a “scum target” in a bastard game.
4. Attacks Creature for being Non-Committal yet that is the theme of 134. Null on everyone not Sly or Giga and doesn’t even want to vote the claimed scum read. Cognitive Dissonance.
5. Fake outrage at Ank’s claim given that this is, again, a bastard game.

Don’t like Pepto’s response at 173 that says “I’m bad at Day 1.” At all.

--

Page 8 down …

Pepto and Giga forged some links during this period. And I think I’m going to give Not Chara a Town read for the posts I read this block of reading.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Page 9 –

I was going to say I liked Blade Dancer’s posting and was ready to give a soft Town read and then came 255 and the use of flailing in the back and forth with McMenno. So out the window that potential Town read goes based on buzzwording.

McMenno gets credit for seeing part of what I saw with Pepto in 257.

@Nos

– off everything that’s went on your entrance is

1. a Creature vote, and
2. that weak?

--

House can be really nitpicky at times, and I thought it was weird of him to justify an RVS vote on inaccurate reasoning. Really though I think it's more likely he just forgot, but I wanted to he how he'd react to being corrected.

Again – why has this not been hung? There is no need to justify an RVS vote – it is an RVS vote. And Giga’s never mentioned anything post that initial exchange about what sort of read from House his reaction gave her. Retroactive justification in full force.

House...

If I give reasoning to explain that we are not scum together, that means I can't bus him in the first place because only scum bus.

Giga flipping group scum means that there isn’t a significance chance of Multi-Group scum this game given this response.

--

Dear Journal,

End of page 14. Still holding out hope for a wagon on Giga. Or Pepto. But expecting disappointment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Page 15 … the slog continues …

Gamma seems bound and determined to buddy Accountant hard on these pages. Which is good for future relational analysis of Gamma , Accountant and Zakk. Especially given Accountant’s pick up at 383.

I’m not thrilled with Leon’s entrance. The reasoning at 427 is generic and his hoping on what constitutes the biggest wagon is not what I expect from Leon. Especially given the sheer volume of the game at his entrance.

Maxous can be Town for that entrance.

And hey it’s my buddy the Baker! I hope you followed through with your vote on Giga in the intervening pages as it would make my heart happy given how similarly our reads are based on your entrance post.

--

so i think it's time for me to out this information because it's not as obvious as i thought, but i'm worried it could be anti-town but i'm taking the risk at this point because i can't see myself making it very far in this game

the reason i'm vote parking slysly is because i'm pretty sure i have an idea of some aspects of what his role is (flavor i'm pretty sure, and some general mechanics about it but i don't know his role PM completely) and i can't possibly see it as a town thing.

i'm kind of shocked that no one else has at least hinted that they're seeing what i'm seeing, it's one of those things that i would think is obvious to anyone with flavor knowledge. i thought house was on the right track because he backed up a question i asked that lead me to this conclusion, but i don't think house has flavor knowledge and he's townreading sly so probably not.

i don't want any claims because of this, but i would like someone with a lot of flavor knowledge to re-read the thread and just tell me if they see the same thing that I am. just a yes or no would be fine. if i'm just confbiasing or chasing a smoking gun here, i'll probably move my vote to either zakk (best wagon composition and some associatives with sly) or Gamma (my next best scumread). this is something i'm capable of explaining but i'm trying to out this information without risking someone having to claim because i'm way off.

i wouldn't mind discussing this in a PT with a townread, however.

Scum over-justification of postion, especially given it is ensconced in flavor speculation. Review Giga’s ISO to that point and see how many times Giga points out Gamma’s scummy play. Here’s a hint – you will not find any.

Finally willing to wagon the biggest wagon for very weak reasons (composition with no flips?).

I just think it's interesting that there's two people who are very interested in having a hammer and are approaching it in very different ways.

Given that Sly hasn’t said anything tangible about absolutely wanting to hammer (as opposed to Ank who gave role reasons) I find this statement is a huge stretch.

--

Through Page 21. The end is near …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Page 22 – the final frontier …

Ank voting Pepto guts says is coming from a Town perspective but I wish there was more reasoning provided to help me solidify that gut.

@Ank

– why did you choose Pepto over Giga to drop your vote?

Accountant also loses my interest in his posts and reading with 550 being empty buzzwording.

And finally signs of a Giga wagon – first Andy and now 595 House. And then it is gone.

@House

– what about that replace out post says Town at all?

And I am absolutely not ever giving up that Giga as scum read after the replace-out at 613.

Absolutely hate 627 as that is a post right out of zakk’s scum playbook. Same with 636.

And revoke an earlier Not Chara Town lean as of 677.

--

Yup, you can die. I don't like people who accuse me of lying when I am 100% right in order to defend scum so die.

If McMenno is scum this is partner who has been power-bussing all day long. I don’t think McMenno is scum but this post needed highlighting in case he is. Especially with the abrupt shift of focus right to Ank and completely away from McMenno.

--

Ok caught up to my initial post. Will catch up on “modern” posting after lunch …

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Pepto

I’d rather my vote was productive at this point. As I said the replace-out does nothing to adjust my scum read on Giga’s slot as the posts (which I’ve pointed out in my catch-up) that I found to show scum intent have nothing to do with being over-gamed or busy in real life.

My dislike of Not Chara’s slot grows with 702.

And Blade Dancer’s “McMenno’s RVS is a viable scum tell” argument that I would be willing to wager large amounts of money is going to be pretty much anecdotal as opposed to anything that actually is a tell. And yup I’m correct if 718 is supposed to be the support for it as a scum-tell.

@Ank

– re: 725 – OK thanks.

--

I'm going to write here "catching up" but I make no promises of actually reading all of this. Maybe I'll just sheep Magna for the day.

Nah, you need to read.

Why would you sheep me anyway? It isn’t as if we have a long and illustrious history of playing together …

--

Is it really spam posting if people are writing back? Magma do please try not to be an old codger. Thanks in advance.

But yes I generally agree that in most games I have played one of the top two or three posters is usually scum.

Yes, it is. Your posting on this page is a pure example. Those responses from 687 to 694 could all have been easily put into a single post. Same amount of content, 1/8th the thread length.

And I know very well you understand the fact that artificially long threads help to lose games for Town. In Adventure Mafia we talked in the Mafia PT Day 1 about how bloating the thread was a net benefit to scum as it made reviewing difficult to impossible.

And here you are – continuing to bloat and pretending it isn’t Pro-Scum.

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Magna: i really don't see Blade Dancer bussing. McMenno scum would mean Blade Dancer town.
you have a lot of experience with zakk? how are they as town?

1. Well first it would be distancing since no significant wagon has formed on McMenno but why don’t you think it is possible?
2. Why would McMenno scum mean Blade Dancer Town to you in a bastard closed set-up?
3. No. I have exactly one game – Sir Cakez’s Large Normal where we were scum together and lasted deep into the game. While I’m not going to read him based on a single game of meta (and he admits to changing up his game anyway so it would be pointless) certain tactics are going stick out to me that he used repeatedly in that game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's actually a good point about me using thread bloat in scum games, Magna. So are you scumreading me for that, then? Or just pointing it out so that others can?

Gun to my head right now ... I'd lynch you. You are doing to much peppering of pointless insults and insinuations without actually bringing much in the way of reads to the table for my tastes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nahdia replaces gigabyteTroubadour. Welcome to the game, Nahdia!

Welcome Nahdia.

So sorry you had to replace into a scum slot.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Checked, don't see it.

Just stop posting before you earn a face-palm meme ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

So basically Nahdia is scum and the minute a wagon appears on her I am there given Giga’s ISO and Nahdia’s replace in posts.

On the other hand I think if somehow I’ve misread Giga / Nahdia that Not Chara stands a good chance of white-knighting that slot and therefore scum.

And Pepto’s replace-out is very, very scummy. Why more votes are not accumulating there is troubling.

--

You. Gamma is a counter to you and zakk.

Frankly, I tend to buy the obliviousness though.

Given that the leading wagon has been on Pepto for a significant amount of time your “X and Y are Counterwagons to Z” argument that excludes Pepto is pretty spurious.

What is your Pepto read again?

--

Give me your read on me if you want that to even be a possibility.

You probably now understand that the reason I told you to stop posting is that Creature was running a stupid gambit with Nahdia. While I didn’t think anything would come from it you were basically making sure it was blown up.

So sell me that you were just plain ignorant instead of specifically trying to shield Nahdia (who is scum) from making a mistake …

If you or someone else presents the case again, I might see it differently. Happened with zakk!

Happened a long time ago – are you not reading?

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Pepto got wagoned in Mafiaception, he wordlessly flaked out, he was scum
Same thing happened here

So if you think he’s scum why is your vote not on the leading wagon?
And if you don’t think he’s scum why bring this fact up?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Accountant is welcomed to my Town pile for 961 even with what I assume to be a fake dayvig. Because he’s properly identified traits of zakk as scum in a Large game right there.

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And I didn't even mention the popularly perceived scummy replace out with Pepto, another superior choice to the millers.

Is Pepto scum in your mind?

--

also for those of you voting sircakez saying that it was my reasoning that helped you get to that point, you're probably full of shit

because all my posts 565 and 569 really did was show that cakez has a habit of suspecting me, and that his suspicion should be taken with a grain of salt

i didn't create a case for him to be scum, i didn't even say i had a scum read on him. i just said what he has done before, and as which alignment

So you are now floating that 565 was a tricksy trap and you never intended for it to be an indication that you thought Sir Cakez was scum?

accountant on the other hand, you can scumread. he's playing this game like andrius (and like house, though house always does it) where he tries to pretend he holds more sway than he actually does, and it's ringing reaaaal hollow. i can see through that shit hella fast. i've just been waiting to call it out until he wasn't voting me any more and it wouldn't look like conf-biasy omgus (and then he got into that OMGUS argument with gamma emerald and my face started literally hurting with rage at how stupid they are being)

Yeah this is bad. Scum reads based on the kind of crap bravado that is a hallmark of all zakk games thus he should know it is not alignment indicative? And also giving House a pass for meta while not even wondering if Accountant plays that way all the time? Finally we get the “I was worried about being labelled as OMGUSing” bit.

Are you bussing Pepto?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I wanted your read for a personal tell, Magna.

Ask me if I care about your personal tell Gamma … or if you can deduce the obvious answer don’t.

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Magna: so, you misreading Nahdia means every person who read them correctly is scum. they're that scummy.
whiteknighting is not a claim you can make unless you can point to where i've drawn conclusions about giga's alignment where they couldn't exist. you've not.

Nice reaction. Can you point to where I said everyone who reads them correctly is scum? Nope you can’t. I have chosen you for your ISO specifically in conjunction with your declaration that "Giga's replace out is Town" which isn't a reasonable conclusion from an uniformed viewpoint. Funny that you are also trying to explain to me the ‘rules’ of hunting scum …

--

That's a misrep. I said that on page 20-something, and never said anything about not reading pages going forward (as should be obvious since I caught this). If you guys generate thirty pages in the opening two days of a thread, ninety percent of that is going to be useless. It's much better for me to start forming my opinions at page 20-something, where you guys are all actually contributing content.

Disagree completely in that I think Giga showed tons of alignment indicative posting in the first 20 pages and just skipping that not very Town oriented play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

House is making a case on Nahdia that's built solely on meta. I'm asking if anyone can confirm this meta.

It's an impossible exercise since House stated it as "no-one with any sense scum reads me" which is ego driven bollocks.

So it is probably best to ignore the statement as chest puffing.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, please, get out of Pepto. I am slowly changing my mind on that slot.

So why don't you elaborate on why you are changing your mind on an empty slot.

It should really be informative and a good read. You see me shiver with antici ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok the pepto push is rad I can dig it. Either they're scum or they're lynchbait which scum is very likely working on because there's so many good justifications to be on that wagon it's not even funny. Well ok, it is funny. Everything is funny if you just believe. And just call me Steve Harwell cause baby I'm a believer. Ha ha. See, I laughed because it was funny. Case in point. Foot in shoe. And so on.

Creature, SirCakez, zakk, pepto, House

scumpoll as of rn.

In this thread Nhadia prepares for a late bus on Pepto but hopes the replacement gets the Replacement Halo that her scummy slot was handed.

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Magna, giga's replace out was town. i've explained why. you disagreeing with the read is fine, but not grounds for a call of whiteknighting. i've been wked before, i know what it looks like.

if you were so sure of Nahdia being scum, whiteknighting shouldn't have been a thought that occured to you except as a way to discredit my read. it's pre-flip association of the scum kind.

Again – you attempting to dictate to me what I can assess as white-knighting and what I can’t is good stuff. A++, would read again.

The bolded part is actually what I want to highlight here – the attempt to portray that me having a strong read that I don’t see changing on Nhadia’s slot as scum means it is scummy to allow for me having the clarity to understand I could be wrong. And there is nothing wrong with making pre-flip reads – it’s how you play Mafia. If I wanted to lynch you first before Nhadia were flipped I might see this as a Town thought process but that clearly isn’t the case.

Should I throw in the OMGUS buzzword for kicks and grins?

i've never seen a mod put that rule in before and didn't really notice it until Gamma brought it up.

Really? So when the mod in your Role Pm specifically to confirm that you had read and understand the game’s rules, which the Draw clause is a part of, did you just blow that off?

again, you disagree that giga's replace out was towny (it was), and use that as a reason to call my stance unreasonable.

You do know this is a Mafia game, correct? The core of which is looking at other player’s posts and assessing those that don’t seem reasonable . I’m just want to be sure you didn’t think this was an online Jeopardy tournament.

--

I noticed this earlier: draws are possible?
I think that may confirm SK/multiball.

Why do you reach that conclusion?

[MagnaofIllusion]

In response to Magna's question: the fact that kingmaker scenarios often end in draws.

Can you point to one here on MS? I can only remember 1 quasi-Kingmaker scenario (outside of specific theme games) in regular games here on MS and it ended with a joint Scum / Scum win.

[MagnaofIllusion]

i'm not calling Nahdia a shit player or anything (i don't think even think i've played with them before)
what i'm saying is that a lot of the unanimous town-read players like {blade dancer, house, gamma, magna, andrius, SlySly, me (hi!) } don't trust them and i find it silly that they're pretending they're unaware of that

That's what's called scum bravado - she's figured her best chance at surviving long term is to put on some "whimsical" posting to garner good feelings and combining it with absolutely ignoring those who directly call her scum.

You'll notice she hasn't said boo in my direction which if she was Town I'd expect her to have looked at me to at least some degree.

But nope ... not even pretending I'm here.

Scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Like, this just in; I've only interacted with people who have been on while I've been on. Whoa. Fucking novel. Shocker. Goddamn madness, I know.

Like this just in ... I've been on all day.

Shocker ... Amazing ... Turnt ...

Not surprising that you only addressed me after I called you out on the selective posting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What do you wanna talk about?

Besides Pepto who are your partners? Sell them out and you can go last. Good Times!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Let's try something else

VOTE: Andrius
What is it about every single one of his posts that feels manufactured in fake fake of fake lands?

Done bussing Pepto zakk?

[MagnaofIllusion]

No I still kinda think he's scum

I remember forgetting to post him in my scum list actually. Or did I forget? I don't remember.
LOL that above sentence looks so dumb.

anyway, no, I still suspect him and he should be on the list. But I don't like how BAKERMAN is skating by

And how NOBODY has picked up on how he's being an excuse factory. In fact, that post I made was only mentioned by people who used as an excuse to have a town read on me

Nobody has followed up with Andrius as far as I can tell

So rather than stay on a viable wagon you think is scum and point out all the things you dislike about Andrius you start a vanity wagon?

What do you think of Massive?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also magna

My wagon on Andrius may be small (I thought I saw somebody else vote him too so it's not a vanity wagon) but it will become mighty. Like me.

so my question stands, how come you have been ignoring my points about Andrius?

I'll be frank zakk - because I find your point not alignment indicative and lame.

Plus the fact that I'm not Town reading you doesn't help.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Just wondering, will anyone follow my list?

Let me check Magic 8 Ball ...



Sorry Creature the Magic 8 Ball has spoken ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Other: McMenno and Peptobislawl; I think there's 1 scum and 1 town in there. Really not sure which is which, could lynch either atm but would appreciate seeing content from a Pepto replacement beforehand obviously.

Translation - replacement buddy you need to get in here and fake-Town like a champ otherwise I'm going to have to bus you ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Honestly I really don't mind super active day ones because they usually allow a lot of townies to talk with each other, gel with each other, and react to a lot of things without having any agenda based on flips yet, and there's no guesswork involved in knowing who is going to die and who is not going to die yet. Lots of mutual town reads get formed, and even if there aren't large town blocks, they ones are very important and quite integral in strong, town controlled games.

Bolded the above for emphasis.

In my (considerable, 100+ games) experience, it's day two and day three where stuff like "spamming" begins to bog down the flow of the game and to be measurably detrimental to town's success.

So yea, I hope House dies before day three LOL, otherwise this game is going to be bloated beyond recognition *grimace*

Yeah this is scum given we specifically talked about bloating Day 1 as partners in Sir Cakez game ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Consider this from a different angle. If I were scum, why I would feel any need to buss the pepto slot? There's plenty to latch onto to pivot into a townread on that slot. For example, Blade Dancer's read on them. Additionally; the fact that I've outted some trepidation on McMenno's slot and him being a driving force behind a pepto wagon.

Nah. The links established between Giga and Pepto and the way you've approached that slot (distancing by calling it scum but unwilling to commit to actually voting there to fuel the wagon) seem fairly clear at this juncture. At every turn you've dropped a caveat (first it was "Scum might be pushing the slot", now it is that one of McMenno and Pepto is probably scum without moving your vote to the what should be a 50 / 50 shot if you actually believed it) every time you've explained your Pepto is scum read.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna, I think you're right on Nahdia but wrong on the partner.

I think Nahdia wants the Pepto wagon alive but doesn't want to be on it.

McMenno meanwhile is her buddy she doesn't want to bus.

What's your reasoning on McMenno again? All I recall was your flailing point which wasn't selling me at all.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Were I partners with McMenno I could just sheep his read outright. I mean I realize I'm playing the "what i would do as scum" game here and that's not exactly reliable but you're both assuming I've put myself in a position where I'll have to buss one of my partners eventually. Since, presumably, if I succeed at getting the one who is town lynched, I'd have to pivot onto scumreading the other which would be my partner if I'm scum.

It's funny you are trying to sell "Well, I would have to bus eventually" when we know fully well that's not how Mafia has to work ...

Look exhibit A - GreyIce's recent Mini Normal where I hard distanced from karnos Day 1, Mathblade Days 2 and 3 and blithely went from Town mislynch to Town mislynch all the while.

Pretending that you, after successfully managing to get your mislynch, couldn't find a way to move to another suspect is comical Nhadia.

[MagnaofIllusion]

unanimous town-read players like {blade dancer, house, gamma, magna, andrius, SlySly, me (hi!) }

Fucking what lol

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

magna, andrius, gamma, blade dancer, and really.....

ANY

of those players being unanimously town read, is like. LOL

In this thread we see that zakk's reading skills are subpar (Maxous was listing the people who were not Townreading Nhadia not those universally Townread) and see the classic scum Zakk move of trying to undermine a whole players by pretending it is funny that they aren't being Townread.

True Story

[MagnaofIllusion]

here i've added my own struck out names now

that puts us down to:

04 Maxous
06 PeregrineV
10 Nosferatu
17 SnarkySnowman
21 Andrius
22 massive

Yeah this list is bad.

Hey Creature why did you ditch my direct question about your suddenly changing Pepto read given he replaced out well before your shift?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, I see your point. How about this; I promise you if we lynch one of those two and they flip scum, I'll start pushing on the other. I pinkie promise, even. That's how you know I'm like, super for real, friendbro.

Oh look pacifying empty posting ...

The fact that you aren't voting Pepto despite saying he's in your read a 50/50 shot at scum says to me all that needs to be said.

Also the generic use of no names in this post is great for scum who want to say "Oh no, i was referring to X and Y not Z and Q". Town don't need wiggle room.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Everyone

- notice how Zakk avoided this specific point like the plague?

also for those of you voting sircakez saying that it was my reasoning that helped you get to that point, you're probably full of shit

because all my posts 565 and 569 really did was show that cakez has a habit of suspecting me, and that his suspicion should be taken with a grain of salt

i didn't create a case for him to be scum, i didn't even say i had a scum read on him. i just said what he has done before, and as which alignment

So you are now floating that 565 was a tricksy trap and you never intended for it to be an indication that you thought Sir Cakez was scum?

[/quote]

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well toodles ... off to spend time with my family.

Zakk, Nhadia and Pepto are all grade A lynches.

@Peregrine

- can you support any of those?

[MagnaofIllusion]

i'm not floating anything

i wasn't going over the people in my wagon saying "he's scum, he's scum, he's scum"

i was going over the votes on my waon saying "this is a bullshit vote, this is a bullshit vote, this is a bullshit vote"

so what point am i avoiding?

you're totally misrepping me.

Um look a complete and utter dodge. For those who doubt zakk isn’t scum just making up things on the fly let’s revisit the posts I was discussing.

I also want to address this post.

zakk is great at faking scumhunting as scum
I wouldn't townread him for that yet

I have played at least five or six games with SirCakez in the last year or so.
In every game where he is scum, he drums up the fact that I'm really good at scum, and that people shouldn't trust me.

Compare

:

Kuribo in Wonderland:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... hilit=zakk

Street Fighter Mafia:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... hilit=zakk

Mass Effect Mafia:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... hilit=zakk

Magical Girls Mafia:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... hilit=zakk

Look at the way he constantly doubtcasts me, but ESPECIALLY as scum.

Note that I am town in all of these scenarios.
The only time I've been scum around SirCakez is when we were scum

together

, here:

Killer Instinct Mafia:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66274

So throw that in the pot along with all the votes which have been influenced by SirCakez.

That's all.

So 565 is where zakk goes to great length to show a multiple meta examples of SirCakez as scum doubtcasting him. Read that post in full and then look at the next post in the chain that I was pointing out.

also for those of you voting sircakez saying that it was my reasoning that helped you get to that point, you're probably full of shit

because all my posts 565 and 569 really did was show that cakez has a habit of suspecting me, and that his suspicion should be taken with a grain of salt

i didn't create a case for him to be scum, i didn't even say i had a scum read on him. i just said what he has done before, and as which alignment

i don't have a scum read on him, and actually don't think i've considered him scummy more than a couple times this game

so park that wagon, turn it around, and start barking up another tree, comprende? thxxxxx

So in 932 he specifically says that 565 was not a “case” and he doesn’t scum read SirCakez, that the people who used 565 as reasoning to vote SirCakez are “probably full of shit” and SirCakez isn’t scummy.

I point this out and zakk tries to ignore it until I point out his ignoring it for everyone to see.

Now look at his response I quoted above … does that look like anything coming from a Town perspective to you?

Firstly he mis-identifies the issue completely – he’s trying to say I’m “misrepping” his intention. Yet what was the intention of 565 then? It certainly doesn’t reasonably appear to me that he’s saying “Sir Cakez suspicion should be taken with a grain of salt”. If so he could have just typed that and not gone to the trouble of linking multiple games. That post says “Sir Cakez always does this when he’s scum”. His subsequent backpedaling is zakk scum play – flip flop constantly on positions regarding players to establish a pattern of “that’s how I play” so he can’t be held accountable for suspicions. He did that in Adventure Mafia all the time … in fact in the Mafia PT I had to warn him off doing it with Titus later in the game as it was going to get him lynched.

And this isn’t the only example of him here – now suddenly Andrius “isn’t a good lynch” just for providing a wall post. Keep in mind he’s been calling Andrius scum for most of the limited day. Can scum wallpost? Certainly. And he makes absolutely zero comment about any of the content of Andy’s post … just that he shouldn’t be lynched today if he posts like that. Switching gears off an unpopular push but leaving plenty of wiggle room to later say “Oh, I still think he’s scum, blah blah blah”.

Zakk is pretty obvious at this point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Accountant

– please move back to Narna. The wagon was building and with Andrius pledging his vote and SlySly saying he would hammer his scum reads we effectively only needed 3 more votes before you jumped to policy vote House. A scum lynch is a good lynch.

Keep the votes coming.

He’s asking for more votes on himself. Oblige him.

--

Flailing, RVS tell, total lack of questions or scumhunting.

So I’ve already said your flailing point was pretty garbage. RVS tells means nothing significant to me when you aren't showing scum intent when you use them. And I disagree in that I can name multiple other players who are doing less scum-hunting (Snarky/Narna/Shiro/Leonshade all have objectively less scum-hunting in this game than McMenno) and I don’t recall you looking sideways at them.

Given he picked up on things on Pepto that I saw I’m not inclined to push him for today.

What do you think of the Narna slot?

--

Andrius, I scumread you for your soft because the character you softed is not likely to be pro-town. However, your lack of knowledge about the game means that you can't have softed that, at least not intentionally.

Why in a game that is completely and assuredly bastard are you continuing to make stupid assessments about alignment matching flavor? I’ve let it go for awhile but you’ve passed the point of no return. Until we have some modicum of information by which to parse flavor it’s stupid to say thinks like that.

--

I'll go back and properly address things but, zakk, the game has been going three days. It opened Saturday. I don't the game has been afoot long enough for people to be actively lurking. Oh well.

Nail on the head.

--

Okay Ranger Jr, what did Ank do to garner a townread?

He hasn’t posted any suspicion of her.

--

oh please. you're terrible at this game if you think i'm scum

please please please please take your head out of your ass.

thx

Posts like this are good – it fairly well establishes that Gamma isn’t a partner to zakk. Because zakk would not go out of his way to play the “insult the newb” game with a partner suspecting him. He’s probably encourage the suspicion in their PT to distance effectively now that he’s not got a viable wagon.

i think she was trying way too super hard to be amicable and colloquial and it backfired on her. i'm willing to give her the botd in this case since i like her as a player and as a person and she's entertaining. i'd rather lynch chaff than scum day 1 anyway (and before you are like "OMG ZAKK WOULD RATHER LYNCH TOWN HE'S SCUM" just realize how stupid that sounds for me to admit that as scum)

Junk WIFOM delivery from zakk … junk WIFOM delivery from zakk …

The slow movement back to not “suspecting” Nhadia is pretty much appreciated so I can point it out for all to see.

1386 is more doubtcasting by zakk. It’s like he said “hey, I can undermine SlySly’s reads with babble about playstyles and not call him scum”.

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't like how he dismissed my post calling him out

It's fine to say Accountant is wrong and terrible, but to completely refuse to engage with that is very bad on zakk's part. I'm not sure if it's actual scummy thinking or just his cockiness though.

Given he uses his cockiness as a shield when playing scum I don't think giving him excuses is a wise course of action.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna: the character I'm referring to is almost definitely not pro-town.

STOP TRYING TO OUTGUESS THE MOD IN A BASTARD GAME.

Seriously. Because if I was Skull I'd absolutely make the character in question Town just to fuck with assumptions like this ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Narna

[MagnaofIllusion]

You scum bro?

Nope.

Are you?

If not and think Narna's scum why are you not voting her to help advance the day?

[MagnaofIllusion]

In every game where he is scum, he drums up the fact that I'm really good at scum, and that people shouldn't trust me.

Compare:

Kuribo in Wonderland: viewtopic.php?t=66574&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=26092&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_sort=Go&hilit=zakk

Street Fighter Mafia: viewtopic.php?t=67071&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=26092&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_sort=Go&hilit=zakk

Mass Effect Mafia: viewtopic.php?t=66512&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=26092&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_sort=Go&hilit=zakk

Magical Girls Mafia: viewtopic.php?t=67527&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=26092&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_sort=Go&hilit=zakk

Look at the way he constantly doubtcasts me, but ESPECIALLY as scum.

I've bolded the very important points of zakk's original posting to show that his response is the timid response of scum who is trying to just say "You didn't read all my pointless links" and dodges the salient point that 565 is an attempt to paint Sir Cakez as scum for suspecting him that he later back-pedaled on like an All Pro lock-down cornerback.

I got a hearty chuckle at the "Oh, you are playing bad" Ad Homenium. It's sad and makes me fairly sure I'm on track ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

my magna vote was ignored. i'm crying. come on, zakk, Snarky isn't a fun wagon.

He's scared to vote me for fear I'll decide to lynch him over Narna given they are both very scummy and there are tons of players scum reading him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

am i scum, Magna?
McMenno, i forget who is a better wagon for you. remind me.
zakk is scummier than Narna, if you compare them. funny, because i think zakk is town.

You aren't a Town read. Leaning scum would probably be where you fall currently.

And since you didn't answer this earlier why don't you go to 1104 and answer the question I posed to you about not reading the rules. That's be great.

[MagnaofIllusion]

pedit: oh, i forgot about that question. i read the rules, i just didn't internalize that vote: draw part because my eyes glaze over when reading 'standard' rulesets. let's call this a learning opportunity to me. i bet half of the players on this site could say the same. why do you ask?

Because when the Mod specifically mentions "You need to read the rules and confirm you have done so" in your Role PM it is a sign that it is important. The fact that you "glazed over" something that is clearly not standard language shows me your attention to detail is not strong.

That's not alignment indicative but I do need to factor that into my read on you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think we've made progress ... probably only about 1 or 2 more votes before Andy and SlySly can coordinate their voting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah Not Chara's push on House here is pretty bad. Speaking of surface level analysis - the "Your timing is bad" is that in a nut-shell. It ignores that House had already called the slot scum and voted it previously. It ignores the fact that I prodded House to get back on the wagon literally this morning. It ignores all the flow of the actual game and that Narna is scum who has surrendered given the hole his predecessor dug for him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I see Townblocking is now what is being discussed as opposed to scum-hunting. I don’t really care much since that isn’t a substitute to actually looking for scum but generally my reads align pretty strongly with House’s group so it gets my half-hearted thumbs up.

Not Chara’s strong buddying to zakk actually is very helpful because it probably means worst case one flipping group-scum means the other is not in the same group. Maybe Town, maybe 3rd party, maybe even other group-scum.

Zakk is still playing to his scum meta but after I’ve made that point plain for everyone he’s tries to shift gears but the play is still there. He can’t help himself. 1553 is it showing through. The notion that him having no current votes means no-one thinks he’s scum is such Newbie Queue garbage level play that I’m surprised no-one mentioned it. But it is his way of being “cheeky” which is his play as scum to a tee.

Not Chara on the other hand keeps making sweeping declarative statements like “I know White-Knighting when I see it” and “That’s not how Town does that” which aren’t even close to universally true. I’m having a hard time deciding whether she just doesn’t get that as Town or thinks it makes her look “strong” as scum.

--

@Titus

– you my friend have an Alt addiction problem. This is like the third alt I’ve seen you play as a secret alt and then inadvertently blow it up. Perhaps just stick with Titus …

Nah, zakk never was that scummy. I just voted him to support House and get the game going.

Given zakk fought hard to keep you alive for the endgame of Sir Cakez’s Large Normal I’m surprised you are this blasé about your ability to read him.

God, why can't there be a wagon I like?

And I find it hard to believe you are really invested in a Nhadia lynch given how you’ve pretty much put no focus on her and have been clinging to your McMenno wagon like it was going out of style.

Are you really that strongly opposed to Narna? Because between him, zakk and Nhadia I can support any of those wagons. So if you agree to set McMenno aside I’ll delay on Narna and we can lynch Nhadia.

VOTE: Nhadia

And by the time I get to 1711 in my catch-up you’ve already moved. Still keeping the above in for Titus’s response.

--

>only calls out "bad" things

>should be calling out "good" things

>should be trying to develop town reads

>is instead just being a negative nancy

>is probably scum

See this is where I know zakk isn’t bothering to read and digging hard for whatever he thinks he can parse as scummy. Add a dash of “everyone should play like I do” and you’ve got scum intent. Because if he was reading he’d see who I called Town already.

Either that or zakk is just terrible at playing Town. Given he was very serviceable at scum play I don’t like to assume things like that so I’ll go with scum.

--

Because Pepto was obviously afraid of posting. See the 12 posts of fence sitting followed by a replacement.

So what alignment does that make more sense coming from objectively Narna?

[MagnaofIllusion]

this AtE is wrecking my head, i need a think-tank

Ignore it. That is absolutely the easiest way if you can't grok that AtE comes from both alignments.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not Chara on the other hand keeps making sweeping declarative statements like “I know White-Knighting when I see it” and “That’s not how Town does that” which aren’t even close to universally true. I’m having a hard time deciding whether

Not Chara

just doesn’t get that as Town or thinks it makes

Not Chara

look “strong” as scum.

EBWOP ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Bolded is why I just can't quite put zakk in my scum reads.

Have a look at this ISO - zakk in Sir Cakez's Large Normal

Does that look like a player who is playing to the generic standard you (and House) are suggesting?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna: are you actually town?

Yup. Are you?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Creature

- at what point did I become a cross-out for you?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Since you made these large posts I don't read anyway.

Post number me then ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's a gif of wingdings. He apparently translated and posted it within 6 minutes.

I had this thought ... but ...

Mod Post - Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:29 pm
Pepto's Post - Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:07 pm

That's 38 minutes not 6. Far be it from me to undercut a scum read on Pepto but your timeframe is borked.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Took a look at the scumgames, very AtE.

That's because MS currently has a very stupid site meta of thinking AtE is Town. It's not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mark Creature down as an official Null read ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can we get back to voting Nhadia? That was more entertaining than 'Wingdings Crisis 2016 ... Live Coverage"

[MagnaofIllusion]

i prefer being scum honestly but the one nice thing about being town is that feeling of vindication you get when you flip green and all those people who were so certain you were scum get their mistake shoved in their faces. i mean, to the scum who push mislynches i can only respect a job well done but to the others i'm looking forward to your apologies post game.

Ate Garbage ...

Hang it!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah, that's not even true though.

You almost certainly knew who I was back earlier before my reveal

and we're not bothered.

Can you explain how you think this is a reasonable expectation at all?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Forgive me for voting my counterwagon which contains one of my scumreads. Well I guess it would be more accurate to say I'm the counterwagon to him. But semantics.

Nah, my wagon was never going anywhere. Closest to a counterwagon for you would be Narna who you earlier said was a 50/50 shot at scum with MeMenno. Funny how those incredible odds of finding scum (from your perspective) and you continue to vote away from both.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nhadia has 8 votes by my count. 2 more and Andrius and SlySly can engage and get a lynch on AtEing scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

shut the fuck up you taskmaster. are you capable of saying anything besides "ATE ATE ATE ATE BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW". seriously you're like a broken fucking record.

I've said plenty on why your slot is scummy. I can't help that you choose to respond with more AtE "Look how frustrated I sound" crap while pretending I haven't.

BTW - the above isn't a reaction to someone Nhadia actually thinks is scum. That would be "Shut up you scumwad jerk-face". So more votes please.

Pre-Edit - Lol, you haven't picked up that I do that on purpose?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Pre-Edit - Lol, you haven't picked up that I do that on purpose?

For clarity this is in regards to misspelling her name ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

what's even the point behind misspelling my name????????

The same point that people have in purposefully abbreviating Peregrine's name in an insulting manner (PerV) or people referring to me as MagmaofIllusion or MangaofIllusion.

[MagnaofIllusion]

what's even the point behind misspelling my name????????

Love that the focus here is not that I accused you of treating me as Town not scum but that I misspell your name.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Zakk, Listen to the audio. I don't think Nahdia can fake that.

Really ...

Really?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mod - I'll be V/LA from basically now til Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties. Including taking impressionable tweens to haunted houses ..."

Did anyone else have the thought that Nosferatu probably wouldn't be so clueless about who is in what slot (not realizing Blade Dancer & Giga have been replaced) if he were communicating with a scumteam? Cause I mean, that sprung to mind but I'm sort of struggling with whether the whole premise of that being towny is dumb and bad.

Have I mentioned lately I love when scum just take for granted that their Daytalk is common knowledge when nothing in the rules from the Mod indicates Daytalk is in effect?

I really love it ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Phone post to say no objections to Firebringer.

Unlike that jerk zakk

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not Chara that Nhadia fence you are sitting on must be painful.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can I mention how frustrating this game is to me right now. Frankly the amount of Town reads given for AtE fluff posting as opposed to actually scum-hunting makes me hate most of the players in this thread.

And Firebringer don’t make this game a clusterfuck regarding Yume. I don’t have any patience for that.

--

sitting on fences is a good way to look cool to all of the neighbourhood children. even better if you have a yo-yo.
i think Nahdia's town. not voting there

And this is the point where Not Chara becomes a full-fledged scum read who I will vote if a serious wagon appears.

--

What you are saying would imply that not listening to Nahdia's hour long reads list (before the mod called foul) is also scummy. Why didn't you call out people for that?

Very scummy to suggest that a post the Mod very explicitly said was illegal has the same weight as legal game posts …


--

Nah, I am pretty good at reading McMenno.

Links please.

--

What even is the BP claim gambit? Does it actually catch scum?

It doesn’t. But people persist in that sort of goofy gambit all the time sadly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

BTW people - that is what Town posting looks like. 2505 in particular bleeds Town.

Not posting gifs and saying "You are hurting my feels".

[MagnaofIllusion]

There are good reasons not to vote.
Mine is role-related, and the crumbed roles of others related to procuring hammers are as well.
Don't be dense.

It's not because he is dense it is because he is scum Andy.

Don't mistake the two in zakk.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Without using the names Pepto or Giga, how am I scummier than Nahdia? An inquiring me wants to know.

Scum response - "You can't suspect me for my predecessors whose play was pretty blatant ... I've got a replacement halo and everything"

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm starting to get the sense that one of Titus or McMenno are a lyncher ... maybe both ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

If McMenno ends up turning up scum at some point(I don’t think he will, but whatever) then Gamma Emerald should go quickly after for 2668.

SlySly’s 2695 is pretty on point for explaining to Titus how you can see reads in McMenno’s posting. I’m not particularly fond of Titus’s response saying “None of those are reads”.

Leonshade I’m going to say is probably Town. 2706 has a reads list that generally matches up well with mine and his hesitance to give me a Town read makes absolute sense given our recent history.

--

if you weren't in the game, i'd probably be on his wagon.

So you think Titus and Creature (if I’m reading the back and forth with Titus and you correctly ) are both scum? Do you think they are partners?

--

So you ignore giving Creature a pass on "assuming scum has daytalk"

to throw shade on my wanting an opinion of my play. Mcmenno just said Nahdia was not as scummy as me, but wanting to know why is a scum move apparently. Everyone has read Pepto's posts, and I have yet to be lynched for it. Enjoy your vla halo if you don't get wagoned again here.

On the bolded – correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t you give Nahdia a pass on that exact issue when I pointed it out?

The rest of this post is a diversion from the issue at hand – you specifically asked Creature why Nahdia was not as scummy as you and framed it that only your and Nahdia’s contributions could be used as evidence. That’s a load of bull – just because Pepto and Giga replaced doesn’t mean that their posts aren’t viable evidence as to the alignment of your slot.

--

ugh this game

UNVOTE:

why can't we just lynch narna and go to night

Why did you unvote based on what appears to be solely a Shiro “Don’t do that” post?

--

I don't really have any strong scum reads anymore

I'm just doing whatever

Person peddling “I’m so disconnected this game is too long” who has 3 times the number of posts I do and argued with me that inflating the game Day 1 isn’t a big deal …

Pretty scummy I have to say.

[MagnaofIllusion]

LOL
2668 was not motivated by the alignment of anybody.

Yawn …

--

zakk saying he doesn't have strong scumreads when he just voted me for what is apparently a strong scumtell is what's suspect about their recent posting. am i not a strong scumread for that?

So your only issue with zakk just happens to coincide with when he suspects you? I ask because you were all about zakk earlier when he was pushing on others.

--

This thread needs less one-line replies and more McMenno votes.

Although I think it was intentional. Done sheeping me I take it massive? If so besides McMenno who is scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna: they had scumreads before. i'll believe that the Firebringer vote was for a reaction, but either zakk has scumreads or they do not. for someone who wanted a unified townblock, i find it strange that they voted outside wagons at this stage in spite of their claim that they don't have proper scumreads.

What does the fact that zakk pretty much has abandoned his "Town Block" discussion say to you then?

Did you go back and look at his proposed Block and how his reads and votes afterwards follow those reads?

[MagnaofIllusion]

You want one other name for scum? SnarkySnowman. I think I've played one game previously with that cat, and his lurking game is his scum game.

Hey let me remind you of another game you technically played with him ... Kelbris'es Almost Vanilla.

I think you probably replaced into that game but it is an example of lurker Snarky as Town. In fact I'd go as far to say that lurking is probably more to his Town meta than his scum meta.

So color me unconvinced with this response ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

tell me what you think about Creature, in relation to what i believe i found.

Having dug back through your ISO ... my response is Meh.

Nothing there necessarily says smoking gun / scum-claim to me. Now this is colored by my personal understanding of Creature that says he plays a pretty scummy game as Town.

I would not be shocked if he is scum. But he's not a primary scum read for me at this point.

My big issue is 110+ pages into Day 1 starting a fresh wagon is going to sap the will out of even more people.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah Leonshade is town.

Pls provide reasons for these reads

These two post back to back don’t compute from a Town perspective …

[MagnaofIllusion]

i want either Creature or Titus dead. unless someone comes up for an explanation as to why Creature is not scum here, and where he got the Cakez wagon idea from. which you haven't. fascinating.

saying that i'm abandoning my Titus read for this is plain wrong. it's wrong because i still think Titus is scum (a fact which Magna apparently understood, even if you did not), and it's wrong that you think my Creature read has anything to do with zakk. it was in direct response to Creature's post, which i have pointed out numerous times.

Million Dollar Question - if you think both are scum why did you move from a viable wagon on Titus to effectively a Vanity wagon on Creature with potential deadline (I obviously agree with Andrius's thinking on the subject) looming?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Boo, you totally removed the context. That's particularly bad given the discussion I just had with Sly that you're aware of.

No I didn’t. zakk just made back to back posts. In the first he extols his “read” on Leonshade as Town. In the next he asks Leon to explain his read list. That doesn’t follow. If he actually is Town-reading Leon then maybe I can see him saying “Can you explain the read on Player X or Player Y” if there are a few he disagrees with. But he didn’t do that. He asked Leon to explain his whole readlist. Given he had already explained about 5 reads in the previous post that zakk called Town there is no reason for him to be creating busywork for his so called Town read.

That’s what you do for people you are trying to sort. If Leon is Town zakk isn’t trying to sort him.

My question to you is – what is your read on zakk?

--

Magna.
Remember my Mikujin Tell?
I'd appreciate your thoughts regarding it because you're the only person I know in this game who was in that game, albeit you died before I arrived in. (If you can't recall the game here's a hint: *spreads arms wide*)

I don’t remember it specifically but I know exactly what game you are talking about. I’ll look back at it probably tomorrow and give you my feedback.

BLOC

zakk
Maxous
Creature
PeregrineV
Titus
Magna
Firebringer
Ankamius
SlySly
Gamma
Andrius

VOTE: Not Chara

Nahdia and Narna continue to be my second and third choices.

Personally I’d add Yume to the list (for her predecessor, RIP House from MS), but otherwise signed.
VOTE: Not Chara

The “it isn’t a vanity wagon and Creature scum-slipped” is a weak as hell answer.

[MagnaofIllusion]

In post 2801, Andrius wrote:
Firebringer, do you mind explaining the You/Yume thing, since I just started playing again and have no context? If that'll give you PTSD I'll ask someone else.

Ask someone else pls.

Andy just let it be please. It is for the best. Think Fate / Me circa early 2011 after I won Rising Star ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Guys can I please ask you to put in big quote walls into spoilers if you believe they are needed for context?
I appreciate it so this thread isn't more unbearable to read. Thank you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Andrius

– I did go back and look at the Miku tell from Storm of Swords. Given that I think zakk is scum I’m in agreement with you.

--

Buddy I know you have complained before about how I just spam post, so I don't get how you realize that's what's happening here. This game is 90% spam.

Like if you like it, that's fine. But it's definitely creating apathy. And when I am the one apathetic due to SPAM. I think people should realize it's a problem.

Wall posting is not spam posting. Very different. In fact wall posting helps by limiting the amount of times people would otherwise do 1-off post responses in a row. So complaining about spam is one thing. I’m not sure why you made this response when your original point was about wall posting …

I’m pretty sure you are Town given Accountant so I don’t really think you have ulterior motives but don’t expect players to stop wall posting any more than you stop following your posting preferences.

--

I want to flip Creature because a Creature scumflip would be very telling.

What specifically would it tell you for a flip of either alignment?

--

Narna was just in Wakes 42 madness and was clearly town. That's. It who I see here. Why do you think she is town?

Can you explain this question more clearly? It looks like you are trying to say Narna was Town in Wake’s game and doesn’t look like it here but the words are muddy on that. Thanks!

--

The point is that I was consistent in giving both Nahdia and Creature the pass. You on the other hand have have been inconsistent in that regard, for seemingly no reason. Your whole reply here is a diversion from having to answer why you thought it was ok for Creature to assume scum had day talk, but not for Nahdia.

It’s not the same issue at all. The first time it is brought up (as I saw Nhadia doing it) it is a valid possibility of a slip. After that point it is made public and the whole discuss means an assumption of Daytalk is an artifact of the initial conversation.

So no, Creature saying “Scum have communicated with Yume” after I pointed out Nhadia’s slip isn’t the same.

I notice you’ve attempted to completely drop the issue of your scummy “Don’t talk about Nhadia being less scummy than me with an reference to our predecessors” . So I guess you know you are busted on that point and are hoping that diverting the conversation will make people forget.

[MagnaofIllusion]

How does he still scumread me is my question. I'm p sure I did my herp-de-derp thing by then.

Bullets for this if there is a Vig or a Serial Killer wanting to look like a Vig.

[MagnaofIllusion]

please vig magna.

You will have to use your factional Nightkill ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Fire I'm thinking of re-evaluating some of my reads. Some of them were kind of just gut feelings that I'm not really getting again looking back (or I'm deciding my initial reasoning was bad). Your slot is one of the ones I'm not really sure why I townread though to be honest.

Translation - a mislynch is about to go through and I need to pretend to find reasons to push for others ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Kid I literally have plenty of scumreads, McMenno isn't even my lowest read. Think before you speak.

[MagnaofIllusion]

DO NOT
If I am nightkilled powerlynch Magna IMMEDIATELY!

Please elaborate on why you doing a “herp-a-derp” means everyone should Town read you given you are clearly self-aware enough of your own meta.

I’m all ears.

I will assist anyone needing to hammer at this point. Sans looks like such a bad role I think scum have fakeclaims.
VOTE: McMenno

So you are suggesting that scum have been given Mod fake-claims that look so bad they are lynchworthy? And object to me saying you are a great Vig target?



--

Not talking about Yume beyond the fact she is scum.

So House was at least as Town as Accountant, if more so. Please elaborate on your Yume scum read other than your personal grudge …

--

I already said my piece about that post, and you are twisting my words. Hell, you're changing them.

If you really thought I was scum doing this you’d have demonstrated me doing that instead of just “throwing shade”. That’s why you are scum not Town.

And “having said your piece” is just further dodging of the issue. Keep it up scum …

--

this post isn't analysis. scum or really badly confbiased town, it sucks. likely the former.

Hardly intended to be “analysis” but simply a snarky reminder that Nhadia is scumtastic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

LOL I'm gonna tell you the same thing I told Leon READ MY ISO MAGNA

Nope. Explain your reasoning. It should not be that hard. Break free from the one-line crap-posting and give some reasoning and logic to back up your stances.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My read has nothing to do with a personal grudge.
In fact I vet my reads even more if I have a personal grudge over a player because I don't like to be so biased.

I hate that players do this and say shit like this to me when I have never done this shit and I have went out of my to defend players I despise, because I think they were town.

My read on house has to do with things I can't talk about, and will be left there.

See this response is why I have such a hard time dealing with you.

You haven't said word one about any reasoning as to why House is scum. Nada. So what reasonably do you expect people to conclude as your motivation if you don't provide anything with us to work with.

And now your reasoning is basically on-going games which Skull has already warned us not to do.

Everyone else isn't a mind reader and your seem to think we are ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I requoted from this page (which is ironic as hell given you just said "read my ISO") ...

DO NOT
If I am nightkilled powerlynch Magna IMMEDIATELY!

Please elaborate on why you doing a “herp-a-derp” means everyone should Town read you given you are clearly self-aware enough of your own meta.

I’m all ears.

I will assist anyone needing to hammer at this point. Sans looks like such a bad role I think scum have fakeclaims.
VOTE: McMenno

So you are suggesting that scum have been given Mod fake-claims that look so bad they are lynchworthy? And object to me saying you are a great Vig target?

[MagnaofIllusion]

My herp-de-derp was me saying way too much about my role.
As for fakeclaims, Sans is a good guy. It's just such a garbage role it can't be real. DAY 8? Game would probably be near done by then.

And somehow you believe Mod gave credible fake-claims and simultaneously think people should be Town reading your for slipping on your role ...

And somehow also believe Mod gave credible fake-claims and still think McMenno is scum who chose to claim a terrible role and not a credible fake-claim you believe exists ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I never said that anyone couldn't scumread me for Pepto's behavior. I never faulted anyone for scumreading Pepto. There is no issue, and you misquote me saying, "don't scumread me for pepto." Here is my quote.

You asked McMenno to explain why Nhadia was less scummy than you without referring to Pepto or Giga.

How is that not explicitly saying "You can't hold the scumminess of my predecessor against me in your read on my slot"?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tell me how useful a Day 8 onward Coroner can be. I'm waiting.

Who says it has to be useful? This is a bastard game. And you keep avoiding the fact that you think Mod gave good fake-claims and still think McMenno can be scum who chose to specifically not use a good fake-claim to claim a role you find unreasonable.

It's probably an effectively Named VT.

How do you not understand that?

[MagnaofIllusion]

it's almost like Magna just doesn't care what he says.

I'd make a snarky reply but I'm feeling good about you being scum so I don't expect logical content out of you ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

McMenno's claim is NIA.

See like this. Surface level weak-ass posting.

You don't see the logical disconnect between what Gamma says he thinks about the game re:fake-claims and his stance that McMenno is scum for claiming that role.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Cakez just trust me I have played hella games with magna

I have play town with him, I have played town against him as scum, I have played scum with him, and I have played scum against him as town.

If he's town here I will eat my hat.

Bullshit. You keep repeating this but will not out "your alts" which is a completely scummy as fuck approach to pretending you have meta. And since I'm Town I know the fact you keep using this crap makes me 100% sure you are scum

1v1 Time

VOTE: zakk

If he's as confident as he claims he'd agree. But he is going to back away from his confidence because he's a scum fuck. So either vote him or vote me. I'm not afraid of rope because I'm not wrong.

Only reason to move my vote is to be the hammer or L-2 or whatever bullshit fabrication he floated earlier because he's scum so it's yet another lie.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - Life has kicked me in the teeth today and I'll be driving like 12 hours tomorrow so consider my normal weekend V/LA started a bit early.

I have to laugh at the amount of "Let's lynch Magna" appealing to repetition going on - just repeating an empty mantra isn't a very good way to actually show how I'm supposedly scum.

I've laid out over and over the many ways zakk is so obviously playing his scum game to a tee and while I understand why "tone" players might get sucked in I can't for the life of me understand why Andrius and Titus don't see the clear writing on the wall.

Zakk's response to the 1v1 was a long and empty kettle of scum posting - pretending to be all for the 1v1 while leaving escape hatch after escape hatch like "Oh, I will just be wrong I guess" that he'll lean on whenever I flip and the mob comes for his scummy neck with rope. I also appreciate his "Oh, I have tons of games I just can't be bothered to show my alts but if you find me directly lying since I can't back it up to be scummy so be it" routine ... good for some laughs after a hard day today and a hard day tomorrow.

If when I get back from my trip and V/LA the game is still open I'll lay out a full case on zakk and why Narna, Nhadia and Not Chara also need ropes and bullets galore.