DEFCON Mafia 4.0 - СЛАВА РОССИИ МАТЕРИ
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Troop options for dummies:
Fighter: Ability tracker. (Usefulness for town: 3/10)
Espionage: Cop. (Usefulness for town: 9/10)
Aircraft Carrier: Jailkeeper that stops nukes during the day as well. (Usefulness for town: 8/10)
Battleship: Doctor. (Usefulness for the town: 6/10)
Radar: Target tracker. (Usefulness for the town: 5/10)
Covert Ops Team: Jailkeeper only for Missle Silos (Usefulness for town: 4/10)
Counterintelligence: Bus Driver (Usefulness for town: 0/10 ... Only good for keeping away from scum)
Submarine: Vig. (Usefulness for the town: 7/10)
Eavesdrop: Sometimes hear scum night talk (Usefuleness for the town: 6/10)
Air Base: Kind of like an unlimited Bulletproof sans nukes. (Usefulness for the town: 8/10)
Fallout Shelter: Unlimited Bulletproof for nukes only. (Usefulness for the town: 2/10)
Fail Safe: PGO. (Usefulness for the town: 2/10)
Strategic Missle Defense: Nuke Doctor. (Usefulness for the town: 3/10)
Y'all think this is about right? I haven't read any of the discussion yet. These are my initial interpretations. The usefulness number is just my subjective calculation. If you think I'm missing someone or getting it wrong, please argue with me.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Also, my memories of the games are hazy. I can't speak for others who were in the previous installments, but I died relatively early in all three of the previous ones. I fondly remember the original game, but have little recollection of 2/3.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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In other words, whoever gets the "best" power should be given a second look.Terrorist PM wrote:Limitless Resources: In addition to participating in the standard draft system, you will submit an automatic free troop of your choice.
It's worth noting that the scum do not get a night kill the first two nights (though the SK does if I am reading the rules correctly).
So, okay, Total War is effectively turning the game into a nuke fest. I could see this going both ways. If we vote against Total War, we get more time and the scum miss a NK. I'm inclined toward no Total War. It seems like this option was in one (or all) of the previous games and we always went against it. Probably for better rationale than I can think of off the top of my head.
Gross post. All sorts of commie pings coming off of it. That GiF caught this as well makes me feel good about him.In post 26, Something_Smart wrote:oh hey I finally rolled town in a large
but now I have 23 slots to sort...
I'll probably just sheep people who are actually good. (Which is like, everybody. Except me. )
I'm also liking Cheetory so far as he seems relatively analytical compared to the rest of the players that are posting lots.
I think the odds are small that a town player with Strategic Missle Defense is alive in late game and is effectively stopping nukes on the correct player. Doctor is already a relatively weak card depending on the circumstances, when you limit him to just defending nukes, eh, I just think it's a very situational role.In post 111, Spiffeh wrote:I think the nuke doctor is way more useful than 3/10-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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I'm tempted to vote against Total War and totally be the spoiler here. I'm not really swayed toward either side, but I'm inclined against it just because I think making the game into Texas Justice too early lets the emotions run high and leads too more drama than necessary. I'll peek at the previous games to see what was said about Total War (if it even was an option previously).-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Agreed. Ideally, town would posses all troops. I was just interested moreso in giving everyone a very quick summation of what they mean at a glance. You know, as a reference check throughout the game.In post 110, Nahdia wrote:We definitely should be keeping in mind however the value of keeping certain abilities away from scum however. In other words, I wouldn't assume someone is automatically scum for example if it comes up that they have Counterintelligence.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Yeah, okay, Total War was in option in DEFCON 3.0. And there was much more dislike with it then. The biggest detractors of Total War in 3.0 were town, whereas one of the stronger proponents was scum.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Some highlights:
Subject: DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!
Magua (town) wrote:Total War is bad.
Conventional scenario:
D1-D2, we get:
2 lynches
2 SK night kills
1 Mafia night kill
Total war, we get:
2 lynches
2 SK night kills
2 Mafia night kills
2 day kills from whomever gets the submarine, which is almost assuredly going to be the SK and someone else
Any additional town-directed nukes identify to the mafia/SK who may or may not have PRs
Interestingly, MoI flipped his position from the previous game. Who are the other carryovers from 3.0? Me, MoI, LLD, Spy, Fate and Equinox (Nukebringer). Am I missing anyone?PookyTheMagicalBear (scum) wrote:I'm voting for total war
i hope you guys are true americans like me and also want to arm your nuke silos.
I'm going to grab a case of beer and then figure out who to fire my nukes at later.
this is the only american way to win
since the coward french can only drink wine.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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I agree and will do this.In post 127, Spiffeh wrote:
At the very least don't do this until everyone has checked inIn post 118, RedCoyote wrote:I'm tempted to vote against Total War and totally be the spoiler here. I'm not really swayed toward either side, but I'm inclined against it just because I think making the game into Texas Justice too early lets the emotions run high and leads too more drama than necessary. I'll peek at the previous games to see what was said about Total War (if it even was an option previously).-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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How so? It seems very similar to the previous installment. Almost the same number split (19-5-1 vs 18-5-1). The main difference being additional troop options. If anything, additional troop options necessarily limits the amount of town players that will have Missle Silos. Ergo, scum will have more access to nukes (relatively speaking).In post 135, Cheetory6 wrote:Seems like the mechanics are different there?
Did you?Cephrir wrote:How could anyone fail to catch that?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Subject: DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!
Magua wrote:Defcon 4 Guide
Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Understand things before you make your selections.
1. You get to choose between being able to nuke/defend from a nuke ("missile silo"), and having a PR ("troops").
2. If you choose "Troops", you get to list which PRs you want in the order that you want them. You don't need to include all the items; it can be as little as one. There's a draft, where you're more likely to get things high on the list than low.If you don't end up with anything on your list, you get a missile silo.
The troop choices are:
Fighter: Rolecop
Espionage: Cop (one faction at a time)
Aircraft Carrier: Roleblocker
Battleship: Doctor
Radar: Tracker (does not track night-kills)
Counterintelligence: Framer/lawyer
Submarine: Anonymous daykill (starting D3)
Eavesdrop: Get PMed 1/6-1/3 of scum QT
Air Base: Immune to night actions
Fallout Shelter: Immune to daykills
Fail Safe: Vengeful
3. Scum get to coordinate their checks. We don't.
4. The SK gets one free pick, outside of the draft.
So, with all that in mind, some advice:
1. Do not choose missile silo. Do not do this.If all you want is a missile silo, choose Troops and list Submarine as your only choice.It's critical that we keep this out of scum hands. We may not be able to stop the SK from getting it, but we can make him use his free pick on it, and we can keep scum from getting this altogether.The more people who do this, the better chance that town gets Submarine instead of scum.You either get a Submarine, which is awesome, or you get a missile silo, which is what you wanted to begin with.
2. If you're going for troops, I'd advise against a "steal from the scum" mentality. Better to have Espionage than Counter-espionage, better to have Fighters than Air Base. I'd also advise against going for Submarine -- leave those to the people hopefully following point 1. Fighter, Aircraft Carrier, Espionage, and Battleship are all really good powers that deserve top spots on your list -- at best, you'll get one, at worst you'll make it harder for scum to get them.
3. I'd really advise putting Fail Safe (Vengeful) on your list. Unless you expect to get night-killed N1 or N2, it's categorically worse than just having a missile silo.
4. WIFOM it up in the thread. Town benefits from a certain spread to the selections, but only if scum don't know what it is.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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I totally sympathize with this. I'm really not out to be the heavy; I don't have the personality for it. The history of 3.0 needs to be put out there though.In post 149, Cheetory6 wrote:If this were a tryhard group, I would be voting no Total War.
That isn't the case so I'm feeling kind of meh.
The temptation to nuke mastina, Something Smart and MoI though... hard to fight that.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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3.0 vs 4.0 (Recurring players)
So two people have switched since 3.0. MoI has flipped from anti to pro. LLD went from neutral to pro. I couldn't really find a solid statement in the previous game. Food for thought. I think going back to 3.0 is very useful insomuch as, one, the town won the game, and two, the game is very similar to this one. Why not attempt to replicate it?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Lmao, yeah, you're right. We're definitely not going to be getting along.In post 203, Cephrir wrote:You aren't supposed to have trouble remembering your own reads. Buddy much, etc.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Cheap shot. There's absolutely no need to reserve yourself when you vote for Total War given that it requires unanimity. There's every reason to do so when you intend to be a detractor. Everyone should've been made to weigh in on the issue when it mattered (e.g. when it's still possible to pass). The argument over it is what counts, not the vote.In post 225, MagnaofIllusion wrote:RedCoyote absolutely needs Nukes / lynched on the soon side of sooner or later. Town RC would not be feeling out the thread to see if there is any support at all for not voting Total War. 118 is basically asking “Town is it ok if do this thing?”
First, not a dissenting opinion since I addressed the importance of keeping troops away from scum as a factor to consider, specifically with regard to Counterintelligence. I agree with your second point. To reiterate, ideally, the town would possess all troops.In post 225, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Firstly all Town players need to consider the scum potential upside if they are looking at a Troop. Sub is probably the most abusable by scum.
Secondly any Town player who takes Counter-Intelligence must claim it in their first post after the Draft. Failure to do so should be considered the equivalent to waving the hammer and sickle in public while shouting praise to Mother Russia.
The sub is important. Agreed.In post 225, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Sub is 10/10 for Town as it keeps it out of the dirty red paws of the Communists. The strength Town has in this set-up regarding Nukes is the public nature of pressing the button. It holds YOLO Nukers accountable with rope.
If the Communists haven’t figured out how to completely make Eavesdrop useless then they aren’t going to last long anyway. Consider it a 1.5 / 10 at best for Town.
Fail Safe’s ability to Vengekill a Stealth Bomber kill makes it at least a 4/10 for Town.
Eavesdrop is more valuable given that the mod has explicitly banned encryption in night chat. Whether or not the scumteam is able to work around that within his discretion is up in the air.
I don't understand.In post 225, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Well given that the Terrorist has their normal draft result to cover for the “best power” they choose I’m wondering how you expect to this theory to work exactly …
You said it, not me. For what it's worth, as scum I wouldn't care about Total War, and I certainly wouldn't be willing to fight the tide.In post 230, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I do not TownRC is stubborn and doesn't much care about popular opinion.
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Indeed. He has yet to explain this.In post 245, Nahdia wrote:I'm certainly not pinged by it though. And I would like Magna to respond to the point RC made that Magna was town and against Total War last game and clearly for it this game; that was an interesting catch which warrants explanation.
I'm fine with this post, and I appreciate the Counterintelligence announcement. Though, in general, I disagree with the idea of claiming your draft across the board.
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I'd strongly doubt it. I don't get good or bad pings from Reck yet.In post 249, Untrod Tripod wrote:
he's probably the turristIn post 245, Nahdia wrote:Only person to ping me so far is Recks. Just the way they outted their reads; it seems very flimsy and my gut read is scum trying to ensure they've got their bases covered wrt early contribution. Definitely not a strong inclination, just where I'm thinking rn.
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Why must you get defensive? It's a question. The dodging is noted.In post 252, MagnaofIllusion wrote:So you think that in a game from over 5 years ago the only possibility of why I would change my stance is Alignment indicative?
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Does it really matter though?
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Only if it's in a bathroom.In post 302, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Hi.
I got a pm with top secret classified information I was just wondering if it was okay to set up my own private server for further correspondence???
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I can ride with this.In post 329, xRECKONERx wrote:no clue what to think about LLD atm. inclined to believe mastin's read but idk. the whole GIMME THIS USELESS THING SO I CAN BE A CODEBREAKER AND REAL TOWN HELPER seems forced and actor like and ugh.
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Last game, you mean? Explain.In post 362, Cephrir wrote:She apparently actually did it last time or something though
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108 was after reading over the troops, obviously.In post 386, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:In post 87, RedCoyote wrote:Thank you, everyone, for not blowing the thread up. Reading over it now.
Lol.In post 108, RedCoyote wrote:Y'all think this is about right? I haven't read any of the discussion yet.
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In post 428, Papa Zito wrote:Ok read it.
Nahdia and RedCoyote need death pronto. Have I got my nukes yet.
It's a good thing, Spiff, as it means I'm town.In post 451, Spiffeh wrote:I don't understand why everyone and their mother is scum reading RC
He is one of my like 3 solid town reads atm
Ask Grey.
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MoI's 452 is good, though the jury is out on Zito as he hasn't made any contributions so far.
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Agreed.In post 465, Cephrir wrote:it's really tempting to call ircher town for voting against without reading the thread
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The first good Zito post.In post 495, Papa Zito wrote:Mastin needs to die regardless.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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No longer any need to stay in DEFCON 5.
Has doesn't; I just got through checking. Unless you mean prior to page 10.In post 549, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:In post 536, RedCoyote wrote:
The first good Zito post.In post 495, Papa Zito wrote:Mastin needs to die regardless.
Zito had much better posts earlier on but I can't tell if the one you quoted is sarcastic or not but he had much more townier posts earlier on.
[Town]-----Cheet--Nahdia-GiF---Grey---MoI-Nukebringer-Ceph-Spiff--PZ--Reck-Ircher--hiplop-Fate-Spy[∙]-LLD-Accountant-Dayne--mastina--Errant--McMenno----SS------------[Scum]
Toog hasn't posted yet.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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I do this thing where I read in chronological order.In post 568, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
No that's not obvious at all:In post 536, RedCoyote wrote:
108 was after reading over the troops, obviously.In post 386, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:In post 87, RedCoyote wrote:Thank you, everyone, for not blowing the thread up. Reading over it now.
Lol.In post 108, RedCoyote wrote:Y'all think this is about right? I haven't read any of the discussion yet.
Especially since you played previous game and the setup was posted in signup page. Meaning I assume unless you clearly state "WILL BE READING SETUP/GIVING MY THOUGHTS ABOUT IT" then you should already come in with that knowledge.In post 87, RedCoyote wrote:Thank you, everyone, for not blowing the thread up.Reading over it now.
You didn't give a comment at all about the discussion you just dumped a bunch of subjective info into the thread while labeling it as "roles for dummies" to make it look like you're ~helping~.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Not necessarily. Everyone bunched in the middle is effectively null.In post 575, McMenno wrote:☑ lld scum
enlighten meIn post 557, RedCoyote wrote:[Town]-----Cheet--Nahdia-GiF---Grey---MoI-Nukebringer-Ceph-Spiff--PZ--Reck-Ircher--hiplop-Fate-Spy[∙]-LLD-Accountant-Dayne--mastina--Errant--McMenno----SS------------[Scum]-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Not necessarily. I think it's common place on this site to believe that someone is "too scummy to be scum". I do not believe in that. I think your first post was objectively bad. I'm willing to deconstruct it for you; I'm certainly not willing to say that you should be called town because it's bad.In post 610, Something_Smart wrote:and also RC/GiF are you suggesting that low hanging fruit = scum? because it sounds like you're saying I'm scum for the same reasons you're saying I'm low hanging fruit while calling being low hanging fruit not indicative of alignment. (That made more sense in my head.)-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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You know when you attack me that means we're both town. You ain't figured that out yet? I still get to razz you though.In post 977, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I still have RC on the back-burner of my radar. I expected Town him to come after me based on my initial call for his head. The fact that I might be even a weak Town read for him is a little suspect given that he thinks I "dodged" the issue of why I am Pro-Total War now and wasn't 5 years ago which implies I'm scummy with something to hide.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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This would've been a modkill in AGM's world, mod. No warning bs.In post 885, Andrius wrote:I'm actually really glad you did this because this gives me a chance to remind all of you that this is expressly forbidden once we're done with the draft. There will be ZERO tolerance for fake nukes in this game once the draft is complete.
In post 1, Andrius wrote:13) There is zero-tolerance for being deceptive with the moderator commands (posting Nuke: [PLAYERNAME] when you do not possess a missile silo in nuclear launch mode, for example). Violations of this rule may be punishable by modkill on the first offense at the moderator’s discretion.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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When MoI tells you to check your smugness, you've got some problems, lmaoIn post 1077, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Ircher isn't a VI. Stop being elitist and mean Cephir.In post 1075, Cephrir wrote:that is only true if you first assume him not to be a VI. I would suggest those summary posts are a very good indication he is, though-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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I don't know if I have any really controversial opinions thus far though (Total War vote notwithstanding). I'll say McMenno would surpass SS at this point in people that need to be lynched/nuked first. He's flying under the radar insomuch as he's not being talked about as needing rope sooner rather than later. Phony posts, following the crowd, faux-snark, etc.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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No dodging; I just don't really care. You should know I'm town by now, we'll see if your pride will let you admit to it.In post 1182, MagnaofIllusion wrote:@RedCoyote– any reason you didn’t bother to answer my questions from 767? Should I note you are “dodging” lol?
Reck's vote wasn't optimal as ideally all players would've weighed in on the subject prior to any no votes, but given that no was the correct vote, I cannot call it scummy at all.
If you're actually saying the Terrorist would deliberately give up their free troop as a cover, then I think you're being overly paranoid and illogical.
Because I bucked the tide, yes, that bodes well for me as town. I'm not going to sit here and makes WIFOM arguments, but you're the one that suggested that RC voting speaking up against Total War doesn't jive with the idea of RCscum.
From hiplop to SAD on that scale would be in a neutral/null/middle territory that could effectively go either way.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Nuke that^In post 1216, McMenno wrote:LIST OF THINGS TO DO
READ THREAD
PLAY MAFIA WITH PAPA ZITO
WORSHIP PAPA ZITO?
NUKE SOME COMMIES
This post dedicated to my boy Ceph.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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And you concluded it was a piggyback vote how?In post 1464, McMenno wrote:why did you piggyback off of cephrir's vote instead of voting redcoyote or something_smart, which I'm sure could have a wagon built on them?
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This post is so horrible. Mastina is terribly anti-town and needs to be nuked at the soonest possible opportunity.In post 1465, mastina wrote:I very specifically put in literally EVERY troop, in an order of most to least.
Given how many troops there were, I shoulda gotten at least ONE of them, especially since I figured...well.
Yaknow.
You have no idea what you're doing. You just claimed without any reason whatsoever. You expect us to believe you're absent-minded enough to not understand how the draft system works. Depending on the popularity of your first draft selection, you have either a good or so-so chance at getting your first pick. The second pick is a long shot. Anything after the second pick is a waste of time.In post 1467, mastina wrote:
It's called giving a morsel of thought to the game beyond "I don't like this person".In post 1344, Accountant wrote:How the fuck is Mastina higher than RC?
Nope.In post 1482, mastina wrote:Not everyone should, but for some people, it's mandatory.
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Newb card is :/In post 1497, Vaxkiller wrote:
Im going to take a guess here:In post 1495, Ircher wrote:Can someone explain the Vax case/point me to it?
Because newbies are lynch-bait. Veteran players think they know exactly when another vet is scum and think they always have them pegged. So when wagon gets started on a newbie player no one can be blamed for not knowing they were not scum because of this crappy play style.
Hence why I think SAD is scum trying to get me lynched for crappy reasoning.
It's still pretty early tho, im confident people will see through is ruse.
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I like this post. Something about GiF suggesting that Cheetory make a "deal" with him in regards to his vote's autonomy feels sketchy. Especially this early on.
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This. I don't know if I'm going to vote Vax, but I see nothing worthy of defense thus far.In post 1524, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:In post 1519, GuyInFreezer wrote:He certainly posts like newb.In post 603, GuyInFreezer wrote:Because low hanging fruit != town.
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I've been trying to fairly evaluate this statement, and it just doesn't read to me like an honest town-sided attack. It reads most logically like desperation. This is probably the first non-weak point against townVax. He's reaching and I don't get the feeling like it's an honest reach but rather him trying to fumble together some sort of attack.In post 1581, Vaxkiller wrote:If my post is a "lie" then we need to lynch you for lying as well.
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This lends support to what McMenno said earlier. This is clearly a piggyback vote, and I don't like it. Ircher is very obviously trying to do whatever he can to distract from the Vax wagon. I'd have felt much better about this vote had Ircher shown engagement with UT and/or Reck.
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This is a cop out.In post 1640, Untrod Tripod wrote:
meanwhile I'm just glad you actually feel confident about a read in a mafia game, even if it's wrongIn post 1628, xRECKONERx wrote:UT is basically trying to act like SpyreX and he sees the funhappyjoketimes as his way to blend in but spyspy is actually making real thoughts & stuff underneath it all so UT is just wearing a shitty Party City knockoff SpyreX mask
have you considered that maybe, just maybe, I just have a deepseated desire to nuke shit and the beginning of the game was entirely bullshit from everyone and I just didn't care
but nooooooo you want to be Mr Party Pooper and vote no to nukes all day every day
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I tend to agree with this. The line of attack about whether Vax read the VC or not is too technical and not really a good argument. I think the dayvig argument holds a lot more water though.In post 1647, Ircher wrote:(Town do stupid stuff more oft then not simply by not paying as close attn. Scum would be less likely to make such a mistake and then go to such lengths to try to deny and cover it up)
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I can ride with this.In post 1669, GreyICE wrote:McMenno and ErrantParabola are still voting for Ircher. Would be willing to bet I could get minimum one scum flip by nuking both.
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This is a solid point, but it needs to be filed under 'L' for Let's Cross The Bridge When We Get There.In post 1692, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Um what? McMenno has substance in his posts? Look at that ISO and tell me McMenno has one tiny spec of substance. It is Lol-worthy that this even came out of anyone’s keyboard period but the Night and Day between surgeon-like dissection of Vax and “Herp-A-Derp McMenno’s got substance” has to trigger alarm bells people.
Random notes:
SAD vs LLD is town on town, I think.
Townie vibes from SAD, Accountant, Reck, and Cheetory
Scummy vibes from Vax, Ircher, McMenno
Reck's case on UT is :goodposting:.
1685 is good GIF.-
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GIF may be the hardest slot to read at this point. Though with Spy I can never tell if he's town or I just want him to be town since I always want him to be town.
Since we have time, I'm going to VOTE: McMenno. I would still say this slot is our best bet at nailing scum/terrorist, and I'd be happy to engage with anyone that is open to joining me. I think Vax is a decent wagon, however. I will not try to stand in the way of it and am very much open to supporting it.-
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This rings totally hollow when, as of your last reads list, you have 14 people ranked as more scummy than UT.In post 1703, Ircher wrote:Reck's case was good and I wasn't townreading UT to begin with (Null leaning scum on UT).-
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It's bad because it completely throws into question your constitution. If UT can jump from 15th most likely to be scum to 1 on the basis of Reck saying that he has been fluffing it up too much, I'm going to question that. You have no track record on UT, and further still, you've actively talked down Reck due to his Total War vote and his earlier posts you called scummy.In post 1707, Ircher wrote:Pedit: So, reads should be static and oblivious to other players' reads? My UT read is null due to lack of content to adequately judge at the time. Again, what's wrong with sheeping a case I believe to be good?
Changing reads is fine, but if you're going to do a complete 180, then I need to see how you got there. I don't see that here.
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Everyone needs to be reminded early and often that that slot needs to go.Cheetory6 wrote:
Was there ever any nonzero chance of mastin ever being a nightkill?In post 1702, RedCoyote wrote:This post is so horrible. Mastina is terribly anti-town and needs to be nuked at the soonest possible opportunity.-
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Yeah, I deliberately classified it as anti-town rather than scummy for that reason. I also deliberately asked for a nuke rather than a lynch for that reason. There's a fair shot Mastina is town; there's a 100% shot that Mastina is hurting the town.In post 1711, Cheetory6 wrote:I'm asking what the issue is of someone who's basically going to be perpetual nuke/lynchbait [especially as hard as mastin is] claiming their results?
Antitown?
I guess?
Scummy?
Not really at all. Honestly I will be pretty surprised if mastin flips scum.
Fairly often. Of my last ten town games, I was lynched in seven of them. I know how to step on toes.Cheetory6 wrote:RC, how often do you get mislynched?-
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No, silly, that was unrelated to that post. Hence why I qualified those points as random notes.MagnaofIllusion wrote:For the record I am still on board with a RC nuke / lynch after he tells me "Oh, this is an absolutely solid point that SAD's posts don't make sense from a Town perspective but we should deal with it later" and then IMMEDIATELY calls SAD Town.
Further, your SAD scumread relies utterly and completely on Vax flipping scum. Any scum flip necessitates reevaluation.-
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In post 1717, GuyInFreezer wrote:Where have I townread [Vax] for just being a newb or being a low hanging fruit or whatever?- In post 1511, GuyInFreezer wrote:[Vax's] conspiracy paranoia is mostly newbtown thing.
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So Vax's alignment has no bearing whatsoever on your SAD read?In post 1726, MagnaofIllusion wrote:That's clearly not the case. I've been calling SAD scum well before Vax replaced in.-
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Because it does for me.MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Not a ton, no. Why do you think it should?In post 1729, RedCoyote wrote:So Vax's alignment has no bearing whatsoever on your SAD read?
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Well, I don't know how reliable self-meta is, but Grey once summed me up in a comical way and I've even used it once or twice when similar questions have come up:Cheetory6 wrote:RC, how often do you get lynched based on your tone? As town/scum in general.
Is that something that comes up a lot or no?
- Subject: The Chosen One (Micro 10) - Game Over!
GreyICE wrote:Fair warning about RedCoyote: He appears to care about this game. This may be a RedCoyote scumtell (although I utterly hate and despise the logic that someone plays more town when they're scum, in RC's case it's kinda true).
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You asked for when you townread Vax for being a newbIn post 1738, GuyInFreezer wrote:
Yeah I said that.In post 1723, RedCoyote wrote:In post 1717, GuyInFreezer wrote:Where have I townread [Vax] for just being a newb or being a low hanging fruit or whatever?- In post 1511, GuyInFreezer wrote:[Vax's] conspiracy paranoia is mostly newbtown thing.
So where have I town read VaxJUSTfor being a low hanging fruit?orbeing low hanging fruit. I provided you with an example of the former. Now you're moving the goal posts.-
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canttellifsarcasm.jpgIn post 1777, GreyICE wrote:Dayne Dayne, please don't tell people to fuck off when they ask perfectly reasonable questions about what is so townie about Vax's posts. Because... what is so townie about Vax's posts? If you're going to publically pitch a fit when people question you I'll shrug and nod when the nukes come for you.
If you really think he's town, sell me on why he is and why someone else is a better lynch. And why that person is Mastina.-
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This is the problem with fluff posting cases in large games. There's always a lurker/fluff poster, so cue the, "What about X?" questions.In post 1794, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I'm also wondering why Untrod is getting so much crap for having an empty pointless ISO while hiplop is getting none .. it puzzles me ...
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Obviously.In post 1798, mastina wrote:APPARENTLY since all the troops are in play
If you took even a cursory glance at any of the three previous games, you'd know this. I mean, you have 24 players and 13 troops. One is taken off the top for the Terrorist, so let's make it 12 troops. Three other troops were openly 'claimed' to my knowledge (Counterintelligence, Eavesdrop and Submarine).
They ALL have value of varying degrees, even if just to keep the other side from getting it. Since you get a Missle Silo even if you miss a troop, there's no reason not to go for one you think is valuable. You get it, cool. If not, no big deal.
Furthermore, scum/terrorist have incentives to not just settle for a nuke, ideally, since you're putting a target on your back by openly killing someone else. Even if you use your nuke by committee, so to speak, you could be stuck nuking your partner.
Anyway, it just boggles the mind how anyone couldn't come to this conclusion or think to do any sort of research on it at all.
You can't get nuked today and you can't get nuked tomorrow. You're clearly not the leading wagon.In post 1800, mastina wrote:Oh gee, I gave the town knowledge they didn't have before--all thirteen troops are in play--and claimed my list order, when everyone wants me dead. Golly, that sure is no reason whatsoever to claim, yes it is! There's surely no POSSIBLE reason to claim and give the town that info when you're a top pick for being nuked.
But thanks for giving the scumteam extra information. I'm sure it's appreciated.
Anyone could've told you this had you asked. Had you thought to even glance at any of the previous games.In post 1800, mastina wrote:If everyone took this stance, and there was a troop nobody wanted, guess what?
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Pretty basic but Cheetory has earned a lot of town cred this game.In post 1857, SpyreX wrote:I think the most disturbing part of this is how there's nothing in there that's even a ripple
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And? I don't care for Ircher or the people that are voting him.In post 1864, Spiffeh wrote:Earlier Ircher was in your scum pile so this doesn't really jive with me
Also in that post you threw shade on all of mastina, McMenno, Ircher, Vaxkiller,
While I think all of these players have a nonzero percent chance of flipping scum (except maybe mastina) I think you're casting a really broad stroke over all the universal nuke targets which seems like a really easy stance to hold
As to your second point, you really consider McMenno and Ircher to be "universal nuke targets"? I think I'm one of, like, three people that has even batted an eye at McMenno. As for Ircher, I think he's caught more flak, but nothing major. I don't even think Vax is really a nuke target because I think people are more anxious to see him eat rope than wait to nuke him.
Still on the scum side. Would love to see him eat it.In post 1865, Spiffeh wrote:Also RC what do you think of S_S?
If you can explain to me how Mastina is helping the town, I'll concede the point. Nukes are to be used like vig shots as far as I'm concerned.In post 1869, Spiffeh wrote:
yuckIn post 1716, RedCoyote wrote:Yeah, I deliberately classified it as anti-town rather than scummy for that reason. I also deliberately asked for a nuke rather than a lynch for that reason. There's a fair shot Mastina is town; there's a 100% shot that Mastina is hurting the town.
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They're both town in spite of their aggression toward one another.In post 1887, Cephrir wrote:I think people like saying this too much and it's basically impossible to determine, unless you're saying you just think they're both town independent of the argument in which case use different words
It's relevant and easy to understand, so of course you'd be against it.
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There was commentary, actually (see: 1173, 1219). Further, I challenged anyone to engage me on the vote (which no player has thus far been willing to do). So calling it "rvs-y" or "opportunistic" is a flatout lie. I also find humor in the fact that me putting you at L-11 is "opportunistic". Talk about disconnected from reality.In post 1890, McMenno wrote:wanted to address this in particular, you see he votes me immediately after cephrir does without any commentary then later tries to play it off as an rvs-y vote instead of you know... "yeah I was scumreading you and saw cephrir's vote as an opportunity to start a wagon on you"
and could you please be consistent? your posts sound like they're made by different players
oh and there's a difference between "scummy" (whatever that means) and "scum"
Since Cephrir and I are mortal enemies this game, it only speaks to how great of a lynch you are that we can both agree on your scumminess.
I don't understand your last sentence. I use scummy as an adjective to describe people that are voting/saying/promoting/attacking in such a way that leads me to believe they are scum.
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It's garbage if you scratch beyond the surface of it.In post 1913, Accountant wrote:i disagree the post you quoted was mm's best post so far
it has actual content which is a first
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I strongly, strongly dislike SS's 1930. It reads way too much like, "I can't be scum for lurking... no one has asked me to speak". Very weak, defensive and checked out language.
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I'd be down with lynching, but I genuinely don't think Vax is a bad lynch.In post 1978, Cephrir wrote:can we lynch this or is our collective nuke boner too powerful
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This is actually a solid post. Add that to the fact that I think D1 is large enough and that I don't think Vax is getting better here (his Mastina complaints in 1986 read as particularly tone deaf given his current situation) mean that I can join the wagon now.In post 1992, McMenno wrote:vaxkiller: I'm not saying ss is scum but he's pretty scummy
ss: I'm not saying ss is scum but he's pretty scummy
oh okay was a little worried for a sec there
UNVOTE: McMenno; VOTE: Vaxkiller-
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Claiming soon would be appropriate as Mastina has mentioned voting you.In post 1996, Vaxkiller wrote:I was really hoping people would stop sheeping me but now I think I should just fucking claim so you guys can stop wasting time.-
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Oh, my mistake. That makes a lot more sense now. I'll have to reevaluate that post and my read of you then.In post 2003, McMenno wrote:
I thought it was pretty clear from context that I was referring to ircher's vote thereIn post 1995, RedCoyote wrote:There was commentary, actually (see: 1173, 1219). Further, I challenged anyone to engage me on the vote (which no player has thus far been willing to do). So calling it "rvs-y" or "opportunistic" is a flatout lie. I also find humor in the fact that me putting you at L-11 is "opportunistic". Talk about disconnected from reality.
Since Cephrir and I are mortal enemies this game, it only speaks to how great of a lynch you are that we can both agree on your scumminess.
I don't understand your last sentence. I use scummy as an adjective to describe people that are voting/saying/promoting/attacking in such a way that leads me to believe they are scum.-
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Vax, is that the exact syntax of the messages you received? If not, please give it to us exactly.
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Vax's claim.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Regarding?
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Fair enough. I remember this post.In post 2009, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I was doing it when Eavesdrop was a code breaking role.
Then I learned cryptography was banned.
Going to keep my vote off for now, but my initial impressions are that those messages don't look genuine. That said, Eavesdrop doesn't strike me as a high scum priority as surely a system could be arranged to mitigate any damage from drops and/or drop fakes. In fact, I think most players in this game, if they drew scum, might even feel up to the challenge of trying to make town-acquired Eavesdrop work in their favor.
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Save us the white knight act, please.Cephrir wrote:
what a bizarre aggressive assertion.In post 1995, RedCoyote wrote:Anyway, it just boggles the mind how anyone couldn't come to this conclusion or think to do any sort of research on it at all.
I extended an olive branch a couple of times, got nothing but snark in return. So, yeah, it's going to be like that.-
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You're in good company, don't worry. As mentioned before, generally the only times when coming after me are 'fringe' are in games when I draw scum.Cephrir wrote:i feel like rc is painting me as out to get him so i seem like a fringe element :/
Just because I think you're more likely to be town doesn't mean I don't think you aren't helping. I currently have you as a town read though, yes.Cephrir wrote:you just listed me outside the scum section of your read list and now i'm white knighting?
i don't even know what olive branch you're talking about but that makes it sound like i'm just such a jerk because i won't retract my scumread. i'm just such a meanie pants for having an opinion.-
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