Night and Day Mafia (Game Over)

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

Also, I do have a scumread. Just to let everyone know.

[Bulbazak]

I'm just going to assume Gin and Eddie are town until I get evidence otherwise.

Also, I totally have a video lined up for if I switch to the Light Side. So something to look forward to? Hint. Hint.

[Bulbazak]

Too early, Gin? To be fair, the light side looks like it has the better player list. Not to knock Dramonic or Ray, but I think it'd be a lot more interesting trying to figure out Titus or you or even Mathblade. I feel like I might be having nonsensical conversations, at least for now.

[Bulbazak]

If nothing else, use a different theme than your main account.

[Bulbazak]

I hear some heathens dont use mafBlack

I'm going to dance naked around a bonfire later. You in?

[Bulbazak]

Gin, out of curiosity, how much has Eddie posted in the Light?

P-edit: Deal.

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

To what degree did that annoy you?

Not annoyed. Just keeping an eye on you. I'm wondering if the posts here and in the other thread might point to overconfident scum, but I'm not going to know for sure until the game gets going and I get a clearer view of your motivations.

[Bulbazak]

Well, not RVS yet. Do you think that reaction is significant?

[Bulbazak]

@Dram: What exactly are you having an issue with?

[Bulbazak]

To be fair, by the time the game actually starts, we may be able to skip RVS entirely.

[Bulbazak]

There are at least 4 other players in the other PT that I need to sort early and that I know I can work with if town. In the one I'm currently in, 2 might be a stretch. I have you and the Frost hydra as immediate sorts, but the rest are so trolly that it makes the whole endeavor kinda ridiculous, plus I have no guarantee I would be able to work with you two if you were town. Now, if you are serious about doing some sorting and talking, I'm available. If not, keep your beak shut.

[Bulbazak]

You can be insulted all you want. I've already determined that you're town.

[Bulbazak]

Titus, how goes your sorting?

[Bulbazak]

Titus, how goes your sorting?

You and Aronis are town. Unfortunately, the department of give a crap seems to have lost its arbitrary paperwork division.

What about the Light PT? That's the one I'm most interested in. Starting to get some resistance in the Dark PT. We'll see how that plays out in the long run.

[Bulbazak]

Hmmm...

Can you give a Cliff Notes version of what's happened there so far and who's posted?

[Bulbazak]

@Zeus: How many and who exactly? I figure you, Gin, and Titus, so you can skip those, although I'd like to know how often Gin posted there.

[Bulbazak]

@Zeus: Nothing from Titus?

[Bulbazak]

Sorry. You're right. I think you throwing Gin out threw me off. Anything significant in the Titus, Gin, or Mathblade posts? Or is it just random posting?

[Bulbazak]

Vote 79 CE

Aronis is a horrible vote. He's obv. town.

[Bulbazak]

@Vedith: You promised me a CE wagon. I'm holding you to that.

I'll look at the rest of this foolishness later.

[Bulbazak]

Sorry. You're right. I think you throwing Gin out threw me off. Anything significant in the Titus, Gin, or Mathblade posts? Or is it just random posting?

Not anything of significance that I can gather. Titus said a tunneling joke to Gin and thats about it.

Nothing at all? Titus hasn't been trying to poke people, sort them, ask questions, anything?

Now that's a wagon full of town!

How? Aronis is an easy wagon to jump on as scum and just as hard to sort later due to easy justifications.

I give up. Call me when we're playing mafia.

Why are you so willing to give up and not play this game? I know we haven't played together for over a year, but this isn't like you.

Not only did Aronis post in red (obviously on the mind due to seeing red on their role pm)

Doesn't mean anything.

but also called the other Scum read town

How does that make him scum and not town with bad reads? Heck, with Aronis, it could not actually equate to a real read at all. Why aren't you taking this into account?

and tried to say that my reads won't be worth reading just because I voiced my opinion on the opening post.

Doesn't mean anything. Troll does not equal scum. Get off your vanity wagon and get on one that matters, like say, CE.

[Bulbazak]

Rome wasn't built in a day.

True, but at least the builders showed up. Get on the CE wagon.

Sorry, I haven't been able to really get on yet today. As for why I'm not posting in the dark thread, it's because reasons.

And those reasons are?

Vote 79 CE

Aronis is a horrible vote. He's obv. town.

Can you go into this for me? I'm not seeing anything from Aronis' play that indicates town at all.

-Branson

It's the way he's posting. That's the whole reason why I was trying to interact with people. Aronis comes across as being very natural, whereas if he was scum, he'd be holding part of himself back or even posting less. We don't get that. That level of idgaf is very hard for Aronis-scum to fake.

The bit I didn't like was indicating you had multiple posts until I called him out. Just shows that he wasn't paying attention or even looking at you.

Or it could just be a typo. Why are you ignoring substance and mindset? You seem very focused on catching "slips" instead of figuring players out.

@Gin: That's a bad vote. Move it to CE.

@Eddie: How much of the game have you actually read? Because I can't believe that you'd be caught up and have that read.

[Bulbazak]

At least get off Aronis. He's a strong townread for me, and I'm really not liking this wagon.

[Bulbazak]

<<< What is Voidedmafia doing in my game?!? He's not on the playerlist. >>>

[Bulbazak]

What do you think of people so far like in general?

Townreading Aronis, Gin, and Zeus. Scumreading CE. Not sure what to think of Vedith. Being cautious with the Dram and the Frost-hydra. They purposely avoided interaction in the neighborhood. Could mean nothing, but I really need to see how things go over the first day or so. My Eddie read heavily depends on his answer. Also, Titus is weirding me out, which may not be good.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulb I'm all caught up. Just relaxin on page 10

Uh huh...
Put your vote somewhere useful, like CE.

[Bulbazak]

Okay

for real tho

I can understand the ability to town read Aronis

however

a scumread on CE

I'm wondering where that came from

It came from the neighborhood. Ari is tryharding to appear town. I'm sorry, but your read on the hydra is wrong.

I give up. Call me when we're playing mafia.

Why are you so willing to give up and not play this game? I know we haven't played together for over a year, but this isn't like you.

who wouldn't give up with the way things are going? ppl are trying to lynch me for posting in red, it's incredibly stupid.

This silliness doesn't matter in the long run. Titus just refusing to play the game does, because that is uncharacteristic of her.

Why should I not SR you?

No...

@Eddie, why shouldn't we lynch you for saying the word traitor?

Please no...

Titus, I really want to believe you're town, but you're making this so hard...

I'll finish the rest in a bit. I have some serious work I need to do first.

[Bulbazak]

What's this whole 79 CE thing about? Just because of those couple posts in the Dark chat?

-Kelvin

Pretty much, although they just solidified that read with their recent posting.

Bulb, Dark PT update/status. What's up on that end?

Mainly a Rauth discussion since day start. Otherwise, not much has been happening and activity has switched to the main thread.
I thought you didn't trust me?

Or it could just be a typo. Why are you ignoring substance and mindset? You seem very focused on catching "slips" instead of figuring players out.

I could believe this more if it wasn't multiple times.

Multiple times? Quote in the neighborhood.

And the fact that he couldn't explain what was wrong with the one post but just said Rauth was Scum for it (given I haven't checked yet to see a reply)

Actually he did. Granted, it required looking at the thread, but it was immediately apparent that he was voting Rauth for the timing of his vote on Aronis, which I agree is suspect.

It's not about finding a slip, it's about who's paying attention to the game and who's posting for the sake of it.

I agree. You're just looking at the wrong people.

Why are you against me working him out for making meaningless posts?

Because the posts aren't meaningless? He's not saying much, but he

is

doing something.

I was going to move to Titus, but CE just confirmed they are scum by throwing up their hands and shouting, "You got me copper!". Not moving from that spot.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba, has Ari been talking a lot?

No.

Second, Rauthdir is the one that actually scumclaimed and you're ignoring him why?

Did he? The most he did in the thread was a sudden naked vote on the leading Aronis wagon. If you think that's scummy, which your vote tells me you do, then you should be having problems with the Aronis wagon in general, which you aren't. Rauth has been far scummier in the neighborhood, and I would be fine with stringing him up today, but otherwise, I have bigger fish to fry.

Math has been a buddy central and you ignore them?

Math hasn't been buddying whatsoever. If anyone's buddying, it's you, with your blatant townread of me and Gin when we were making the most waves, all while matching our reads. It kinda sucks that you had to switch from a hard Aronis townread to a hard Aronis scumread because of that, huh?

Your butt has firmly gone into tunnel mode while trying to offer me as a backup.

You've played with me before, so you should know I am nowhere near tunnel mode yet. Hard pushing is not tunneling.

I thought your early paranoia of me was town but your recent move has me doubting it.

A convenient scumread on me when I call you out for your BS is not going to save you.

Because the posts aren't meaningless? He's not saying much, but he is doing something.

What's he doing?

Scumhunting. More importantly, he's paying attention to the thread, using his vote to draw attention to scummy actions, and then explaining it, even though briefly, when asked. Just because he's not as vocal as you doesn't mean he's not doing any of that.

[Bulbazak]

@Vedith: I've already explained my position, and I'm not going to bend over backwards for someone who's not actually looking for useful information.

Did he? The most he did in the thread was a sudden naked vote on the leading Aronis wagon. If you think that's scummy, which your vote tells me you do, then you should be having problems with the Aronis wagon in general, which you aren't. Rauth has been far scummier in the neighborhood, and I would be fine with stringing him up today, but otherwise, I have bigger fish to fry.

Yes he did.

Quote it.

I also did have initial problems with the Aronis wagon. The Aronis wagon was explained and there's sketch details about how my other three scumreads are interacting with it.

The explanation for the Aronis wagon is horrible, and frankly, I have a hard time believing you'd be on it as town. If you have real reasons, lay them out, but this wagon is sketchy, and I think you know it.

Really, Mathblade is royalty of hating townblocks and immediately fills out a dumb townblock application.

Everyone was filling out that application. I don't think it means anything.

Mathblade interrupts Ginnie sorting me as T v T but thinks Ginnie has no reads whatsoever.

Not seeing anything scummy there on Math's end. Although I do think it's incredibly scummy that one of the big facets of your scumread is that Math stopped someone from reading you as town. Sounds like scum annoyance more than anything. As for Gin, I can't really name of lot of her reads either, so not finding that suspicious.

[Bulbazak]

If we have a vig, Vedith is a good shot.

[Bulbazak]

Early day wagon, GO!
VOTE: Aronis

Sorry, I haven't been able to really get on yet today. As for why I'm not posting in the dark thread, it's because reasons.

This is the scumclaim. I am not posting in dark thread, I am not posting on main thread, but let me sneak onto this wagon here.

Given what's been posted in the neighborhood, this is a very good case.

Lastly, Math hates townblocks to their core. Math even tolerating Aronis's posting is almost a scumclaim by itself.

I'm really not sure anybody was taking that seriously. In fact, I'm kinda sorry I called Aronis obv. town because of that. It doesn't change my read, but it doesn't make me any less annoyed.

[Bulbazak]

Thoughts on Titus and Ved?

Scum and idgaf.

dark pt is boring i don't know anyone there

granted haven't actually read any of it although i just saw the most recent post was bulba and said hi

[Bulbazak]

419 is so bad...

[Bulbazak]

I'm still having trouble seeing how you could think Aronis could be scum, yet think Rauth is scum for jumping on Aronis.

[Bulbazak]

I'm still having trouble seeing how you could think Aronis could be scum, yet think Rauth is scum for jumping on Aronis.

Bus vote.

That's a stretch even for you.

If the pt was widely agreeing Aronis would be lynched, lurker scum would want to bus.

The PT wasn't. Vedith was the only one wanting Aronis lynched. Everyone else was either against it or focused on other issues.

[Bulbazak]

So the dark pt almost completely voted but there was no consensus there?

Only Vedith, Rauth, Gamma, and the Frost hydra voted Aronis. Of the 4, only Vedith talked about it in the PT. Rauth and Gamma never spoke a word until that point. And Frost thought the whole Vedith/Aronis interaction was nonsense. Frost also made it clear that their Aronis vote was RVS and not serious. Vedith was the only one that had a hard on for Aronis since the first post in the PT. Besides Aronis, I was the only other one vocal on the matter. So 1 tunnel vote, one vote that you admit is scummy, 1 "who knows?", and one RVS. Not a very strong wagon composition there. Rauth would have only seen one pro-Aronis wagon voice in the PT. So that has nothing to do with Rauth's vote. Again, if you think that vote is suspect, you shouldn't also think Aronis is scum.

[Bulbazak]

Rauth would have only seen one pro-Aronis wagon voice in the PT.

This is why scum bus.

That makes zero sense.

Is there some reason you seem to be scared of my vote on Aronis?

I'm not scared. It's just that your actions don't match your reads or the reasons why you've given having those reads. For example, you think Rauth is scum for the vote on Aronis, yet you also think Aronis is scum. Those 2 thoughts don't mesh. Furthermore, you've avoided giving reasoning for Aronis, and you only voted him when he was a super popular wagon and looked like he would go through. Now you're stuck trying to defend that choice, but yet you haven't given why you think Aronis is scum.

[Bulbazak]

That's...a really dumb tell. I don't see Aronis as a paranoid player.

[Bulbazak]

I CALCULATE MATH BAD

See? Even Mastin thinks your math is bad!

Did you not just say you didn't have a read on Aronis when you voted Rauth?

That means during the vote, you didn't think Aronis was scum at the time of the vote. That it came afterwards.

Starting to see the problem here?

[Bulbazak]

When someone violates their norms to buddy someone else, the person being buddied should be paranoid.

Who violated their norms?

[Bulbazak]

When someone violates their norms to buddy someone else, the person being buddied should be paranoid.

Who violated their norms?

Math. They detest townblocks.

I didn't take any of the Aronis applications seriously. Do you really think that was a serious application?

I do not disagree, but 79 CE is still more suspicious / scummier / youradjectiveher

Wagon built way too fast, CE is town.
However, if at L1 I will probably lol hammer as I've had my fill with you guys for today.

The CE wagon was hard to get off the ground at first. I had to work at it. If you want a wagon that built up fast, just look at Aronis. That built up quickly for BS reasons.

Wait... Desperado's back?!?

[Bulbazak]

The Aronis wagon has resistance because it's a bad wagon and everyone knows it. And I've laid out exactly why I think CE is scum. Don't you dare try to downplay that.

[Bulbazak]

Unvote

We're waiting for when CE gets back on Father's Day. Imagine that my vote is still there for the time being.

[Bulbazak]

This is so stupid...
On the bright side, this means that Rauth is likely town.

[Bulbazak]

Rauth genuinely believes he caught Vedith in a scumslip. This isn't a case of Rauth-scum pushing a slip up for a mislynch. You can tell that Rauth

believes

what he's saying, which would be impossible if he were scum. I mean, he's completely wrong, but that doesn't diminish the sincerity of his push.

[Bulbazak]

Do you have experience with Rauth-town?

[Bulbazak]

Do you have anything that'd make you believe that he'd engage beyond that as town? Because I don't.

[Bulbazak]

Should. Doesn't mean they will. Nothing I've seen from Rauth points that he'd do so as town. How he just engaged with Vedith was my first sign period that he might be town. I'll take what I can get.

[Bulbazak]

Rauth genuinely believes he caught Vedith in a scumslip. This isn't a case of Rauth-scum pushing a slip up for a mislynch. You can tell that Rauth

believes

what he's saying, which would be impossible if he were scum. I mean, he's completely wrong, but that doesn't diminish the sincerity of his push.

I've had times I've genuinely believed something was scummy as mafia
My most infamous instance imo was calling out Ranmaru for her number of nullreads in Family Mafia.

In singleball?

[Bulbazak]

Titus and dramonic seem like scum partners.

How so?

I also think Rauth pushing only fake slips of others is scummy.

Do you think Rauth was just that desperate to push Vedith? Instead of actually believing he caught Vedith in an inconsistency that would be impossible as town? Because that really looks freaking genuine to me.

Titus I don't like people who go through the motions when scumhunting and you're feeling that way this game. Your scumhunting feels extremely faked rn, like you're just throwing stuff out and in whenever it's opportune or your current idea won't work. I want to know why since I don't remember you playing like this ever, as either alignment.

And now you're seeing the crux of my problem with Titus.

Does the 79 CE wagon have much reasoning behind it?

Yes. Read the thread. It's all there.

Aelita, Bulbazak, and Fourtrouble:
Who do you currently think is the most scummy? I don't care if you don't have any good reasons, I really just want to know that you are participating.

Are you even reading? I'm like the 5th highest poster.

Sorry if any of that is incoherent. I think I need to go to bed.

[Bulbazak]

@Gamma/Bulba, It's hardly going through the motions. To me, I have already caught the scums and I am in verification mode.

I just don't feel like yelling.

Come on, Titus. We both know that hardly ever happens. I know that if I ever get to that point early in the game, I start worrying about the validity of my reads. It's concerning that I'm not seeing that from you, not even a little bit. I'd expect even a little bit of prodding outside of those players.

Titus and dramonic likely buddies as dramonic is pushing Rauth as Titus can't.

I really don't see that as likely buddy behavior. Why couldn't they just have similar reads?

Aelita, Bulbazak, and Fourtrouble:
Who do you currently think is the most scummy? I don't care if you don't have any good reasons, I really just want to know that you are participating.

Are you even reading? I'm like the 5th highest poster.

I am. I just expect that a person with scum-reads will be voting somewhere. Honestly I just looked at the most recent votecount for who wasn't voting and forgot to check if any of those people were actually posting or not. And to be fair two of them aren't.

I unvoted CE to keep them from being quicklynched while they were V/LA. My vote will be going back on them at the end of this post.

The CE wagon was hard to get off the ground at first. I had to work at it. If you want a wagon that built up fast, just look at Aronis. That built up quickly for BS reasons.

Didn't my wagon build up for a few quasi-shitposts?

I see you trying to discredit your wagon.

The Aronis wagon has resistance because it's a bad wagon and everyone knows it. And I've laid out exactly why I think CE is scum. Don't you dare try to downplay that.

Are you suuuure you have no agenda here?

I am just facepalming over here.

Rauth scumclaims again slipping he knows Eddie is not scum.

Titus honey, scumslips aren't a real thing. Please reboot!! Also, what if Eddie

is

scum?

Should. Doesn't mean they will. Nothing I've seen from Rauth points that he'd do so as town. How he just engaged with Vedith was my first sign period that he might be town. I'll take what I can get.

I believe the entire thing is very likely NAI!

(I have played with town!Rauth.)

Trying to keep Rauth as an option, huh?

Do you think Rauth was just that desperate to push Vedith? Instead of actually believing he caught Vedith in an inconsistency that would be impossible as town? Because that really looks freaking genuine to me.

I think you could be kinda overplaying this? It felt vaguely towny to me too, but.. it's not that hard of a thing to fake!

I guess he could, but what would be the point?

Vote 79CE

That catchup in thread and the neighborhood is kinda barebones, ignores the context of the threads, and is meant to try to keep certain doors open while discrediting the pushes on the slot.

Will be in limited access mode for the next 2 weeks. So going to be doing a massive catch up post once per day. Anyway, going to bed, because I need to get up early for a flight tomorrow.

<<< I am going to note this on record as exactly two weeks V/LA starting from the time of your post unless you tell me otherwise. >>>

[Bulbazak]

Would you like to share why you're scumreading me?

Maybe later. That would require more time and functionality than I have right now.

Trying to keep Rauth as an option, huh?

Nope! Would you like to talk to me instead of ascribing my posts with scummy motives that aren't there?

Is there another reason why you were so adamant to shut down any line of Rauth being town? I also gave you a line to pursue if that wasn't your agenda. You haven't bit.

That catchup in thread and the neighborhood is kinda barebones, ignores the context of the threads, and is meant to try to keep certain doors open while discrediting the pushes on the slot.

I don't think that's an accurate assessment at all! Oh well.

Everything you quoted and responded to ignored all the lead up to that point. You grabbed quotes out of context, even though simply reading would have answered what you asked. I saw no interest in parsing the events in the thread. I just saw an interest in appearing busy.

[Bulbazak]

I don't think the reasons you expressed for townreading him were very reliable, that's all!

They're good enough for right now.

[Bulbazak]

How did Math go from a scumread to a strong townread?

[Bulbazak]

TB is a tonal read. He's pretty different tonally in his scumgame and towngame.

Explain this to me. I want to see what you see. Do this, and I'll fight this crappy keyboard/mouse combo to tell/explain to you whatever you want.

texcat said something in the Dark PT that I really liked.

Quote it in the PT. We'll go from there.

Vedith feels really transparently townie in the way that he engages with other people and I feel him sorting other slots.

How is he sorting other players?

Aelita and FourTrouble are lurkers, if I had to I'd say Aelita's lurking is towny and Trouble's is scummy but that's just a really vague gut thing that I can't explain.

Try.

I'm having a hard time differentiating my internal hatred of someone literally posting a page and a half worth by themselves without any other people being involved

Have you ever played with mastina?

Yes. How do you think she's spammy?

VOTE: Aronis

Explain.

I'm liking Rauth a lot better after that last post. We'll see about CE.

Unvote

[Bulbazak]

Yes. How do you think she's spammy?

I don't think she is spammy, but she fills pages with just herself easily when she catches up. I do the same quite a bit.

In general, I think Mastin's catch ups tend to be more meaty. I felt that your posts were just...there.

What are your thoughts on Snarky's entrance?

[Bulbazak]

@CE: Okay, my thought process concerning Tex didn't pan out.

Vote Titus

[Bulbazak]

I have no idea how Snarky is townreading TB but I'm going to withhold judgement until he explains it and does more things. I liked enough Zeus so.

I have a guess at what he's doing, but I'm keeping it to myself for the time being. I still think he's town, though, and the vote doesn't really change that.

Bulba if you're unimpressed with the meat of my posting so far what prompted you to move your vote off me? What's your read on me currently?

I was unimpressed by your catch up after your V/LA. I've actually been liking your interactions with Math and myself, and that's given me the first doubts about you being scum. I need to check on a few things, but jury's still out on your alignment.

Has anyone even tried to sort Texcat?
Because that's scum, and if no one has even tried to sort it and that's probably MORE points to it being scum. Scum that's just there should just continue to be "just there." It should be brought out into broad daylight and pressured and lynched.

gnite, hope to see more Texcat votes when I wake up.

I checked back over the Snarky entrance to the game after I talked to CE in the neighborhood (That's what I was checking out.). I thought Tex might have voted, but I was wrong. If he had, then it would have been a no-brain vote for me. Otherwise, it's a little murkier. I'm surprised that hardly no one jumped on Snarky. That actually concerns me a bit.

Bulb gave me gutpings at first, so I'ma read his iso in the main thread and see what's up with that.

He confuses me tonally. I can't tell if he's actually completely disinterested in the game or if that's just how he talks or if he's just scum. I really don't think I'm going to be able to sort this slot in this dayphase. Meta will probably help.

I'd point you to my wiki, but it has not been updated in quite awhile. I think you might have read my most recent scumgame, Hunger Games II. I'm in a hydra, but I'm the main one posting, so you should still get a general idea of my play. I think my most recent town game is The First Mafia. Maybe Mafiaception, if you want to go back a step more.

[Bulbazak]

CE, you asked earlier about my case on you, here it is:

I heavily disliked your first post in the Dark PT. I've played with Ari before, and I remember him being a meticulous and logical player. So I really don't buy that he somehow missed the number of scum in either the game OP or the sign up OP. That read as fake to me, and it looked very much like a false townslip. #313 reads as fake for the same reason. You don't ask how many scum there are and answer yourself in the same post. That fake casual crap doesn't come naturally. I've already discussed #314. That really looked like scum who panicked at being hard pushed. The "Why aren't we voting anyone?" bit looks especially faked. In #419 you say the Dark PT is boring, but you then say you hadn't read it yet. Those two thoughts don't gel. It's similar to my problems with your catch up posts, both in here and the PT. You seemed to be going through the motions, often asking questions that either stood out for their ridiculousness, or that were either answered prior to the post you quoted or directly after. There was no thought for context or why certain actions were being taken, just mindless posting. It looked very much like busy work to me, and there is a strong contrast between those posts and everything you've posted since then. Finally, it's really bothering me that Ari has turned out to be so much of a non-entity. It's reminding me a lot of what Eddie did in our hydra during Hunger Games II, where he hid and let me do all the talking.

So you're a scum lean at the moment, for me. I forgot how much was really behind that read, and I don't see how it's impossible for you to have used your V/LA as time to recalibrate and try to talk your way out of the scumread, instead of just giving up, like it looked like you had initially done.

[Bulbazak]

@Gin: If CE is today's lynch, why aren't you voting them?

[Bulbazak]

Also we are still lynching CE

Don't know why it stopped, but it's today's lynch

And yet you're not voting CE...

[Bulbazak]

Don't be annoying.

You're being annoying.

Why.

You don't read what's in the ducking page before you post...

You make a big deal about CE being today's lynch. I ask why you're not voting them, since you were voting Snarky. You say "You're right!", and then proceed to vote TB instead. If CE is as big a scumread as you've been saying, then the whole reasoning of TB not having caught up like he said wouldn't matter. In the realm of scumreads, TB would be a small blip next to the whale that is CE. So it's a reasonable question to ask. Did your read of CE change drastically since #971? And if so, how? CE hasn't posted anything in the interim, and I actually posted the basis of my scumread, so I know it's nothing anybody else said.

[Bulbazak]

@Alisae: I don't think Snarky is scum. I think he either saw something specific from TB that led to a townread or he was baiting a trap. I was watching to see how many jumped on him, but only Gin jumped on besides TB. I thought Tex had jumped on as well, but when I checked, he had stayed firmly on CE. It worries me that scum didn't jump on Snarky. That likely means that they like the current wagons a lot better. Tex could still be scum, but I'm not interested in pursuing that avenue atm. I want to revisit a few of my other reads and see if they stand up, and it's probably not a bad idea to shake some of the stronger players that seem off. Hence why I'm looking at Titus.

[Bulbazak]

@Alisae: I'm not scumreading Snarky. I think that's where the confusion is coming from. I'm not making any comparison. I just thought the Snarky wagon would be an easy one to jump on as scum, and Tex avoided it. He could still be scum, but I'd like to figure out the bigger picture first, and that's gonna include fully sorting CE.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba seems desperate to discredit me.

How exactly am I desperate to discredit you? You haven't done anything this game.

[Bulbazak]

guys, we have a problem
I'm sr'ing pretty much all of the players in this game and idk why

Some of your basic assumptions are wrong. Probably having to do with playstyle.

Guys 79 CE is town what the fuck are you all doing.

After that response to me, I'm inclined to agree. The original 2 wagons weren't feeling good anyway. I was starting to feel more and more that they were scum pushed since the Snarky incident.

Bulbazak: Are you still standing by your Titus vote?

I am. She's floating through this game. Haven't you noticed?

[Bulbazak]

Want to vote Titus with me?

[Bulbazak]

Qr my activity is not ai. I engage if time. Bay area emergency. Haven't started game Alisae recommended

It's not your activity per se, it's the content when you do post. You're giving none. Town Titus is way more useful.

I've only played with her as scum once and she replaced out pretty early on, but my experience suggests that she's more docile as scum, as well as appearing both less certain and less aggressive.

I've played with her more often, and that would be an anomaly, at least the "less certain" part. I do agree that she mostly tries to stay out of the way or ingratiate herself when scum. As town, she's willing to butt heads to defend her views, even if those views don't make sense. She floods the place with content when interacting with other players, especially players who she believes should know her better, like myself. There ends up being a lot of give and take. This game? None of that. Docile? Check-ish. Less aggressive? Definitely a check there. So...Titus is essentially playing to that scum meta you just described. Why aren't you voting her?

(I think he posted to the wrong game)

Texcat or this goes tomorrow.

My first thought was that Math was responding to events in her PT. I just am unsure why she'd post here and not there. The only thing posting here does is open the subject of PR claims up for discussion.

Rauthdir is trying to shut down communication. Sometimes roles should crumb d1. Weak roles, bodyguards are two that come to mind.

I'm not seeing that. It's mostly Math doing that, yet you're not mentioning anything that she said here regarding PRs. Why is that?

P.S. I do hate RVS. Pretty well documented QR. Day 1 is a crap shoot. Find theory. Test theory.

Try to convince others of your theory. Defend theory. Get agitated that there is pushback on your theory. Results.
But you're not following the typical Town Titus formula, so you can go back to being half-hearted and blending in.

@Gin: Get off your high horse. Experience does not equal superiority in being able to push a lynch. If that was so, everyone should either be following me or Ray Frost. Titus

is not

off the table d1, especially not in favor of a lurker lynch. In fact, if there's anytime to try to catch Titus-scum, now is the time to do so. So quit picking on the lurkers and less experienced and actually get to hunting scum.

[Bulbazak]

Also to mention he went for the easy push which is Snarky.
Although I'm not against voting Snarky

To be fair, Snarky gave a townread on the slot that didn't make sense. TB's vote was the only understandable one.

I'm getting very worried by Gin's preoccupation with lurkers and easy wagons.

[Bulbazak]

Although, curious what you're saying are easy wagons

Ginngie(5): Aronis==> Mathblade==> 79 CE==> SnarkySnowman==> ThinkBig

Aronis/Snarky/TB

All weaker players that are easy to push. Aronis is the quintessential policy lynch. Snarky said a strange thing that is easy to jump onto. And TB is lurking. All require the absolute minimum amount of effort and are easy to sit on and blend in.

Gin's preoccupied with finding and hanging scum. If ThinkBig were an "easy" wagon he'd have more votes on him right now.

That's not what I mean when I say easy wagon. It has nothing to do with how fast the wagon builds, but rather on how easy it is to vote and sit on/push said person. Lurkers. Weaker players that won't put up a fight. Annoying players that will make easy policy lynches. On d1 especially, not many people look twice at these lynches, and they're the ones that are so easy for scum to jump on and hide in. Snarky especially had bait written all over him, and Gin leapt right on that. I've been bothered ever since then.

[Bulbazak]

You willfully ignore the reasoning I stated in the same post I quoted.

You talk about players being easy pushes, that's called calling out scummy shit or sorting players. You're not supposed to know their alignments so literally any of those players could be scum, yet you sit here lambasting me for it.

There's no way right now where I don't think it's scummy as fuck for you to essentially say all 3 of those players are town.

You don't criticize a push cuz it's "easy" sometimes that's all it really fucking is and with the amount of years notched on your belt, you damn well know that.


So tell me, without knowing their alignments, what is the town motivation on your part in invalidating my pushes by making up excuses instead of arguing against what I have already stated to be the reasoning behind my pushes?

You must have gotten a very bad image of my play from Hunger Games if you think threatening me is going to make me wilt. And I really don't like being misreped in the manner you just did. And yes, that is a willful misrepresentation of my argument and not some form of miscommunication. At no point did I say I knew any of their alignments, although I do have, and have stated in thread, strong town reads of Aronis and Snarky's slot. But that's besides the point, because we both know that you don't need to know alignments to know when a wagon or a push is off. And I don't need to freaking know their alignments to point out a pattern of voting that does not seem right. It's called scumhunting. You see something that looks off and push at it. If we look closely at your level of activity, it becomes clear real quick that you went for the wagons on the weaker players with little or weak reasoning, and then you let someone else push. That's what happened with Aronis. That's what happened with CE, since there were others, myself included, pushing it harder for you. Snarky was for stating a townread on TB, which would warrant a knee jerk vote, but it's weak reasoning at best, and you never followed up on it. And as for TB, that's the hardest you've pushed, and it's for a lurker lynch, one that actively avoids discussing any other player. And given TB's replace out, I'm just going to say that I don't think it's alignment indicative at all. And even if it was, a new player in the slot makes it infinitely easier to read, but that looks like it's something you're not interested in. I liked my interaction with you earlier in the day, but that could have just been personality, as you've done diddly squat since then. And I don't like it, because it doesn't mesh with my Titus read, but that's gut, and this is just something that's been gnawing at me since Snarky. And I didn't want to do anything, because I really want to believe you're town in this game. Like I really do. But I'm having a harder and harder time buying it.

Unvote

Math, someone, talk to me. I just don't know anymore. I'm going to take this day and think. I'll put my vote down again tomorrow.

P-edit: See you in a few minutes, buddy.

[Bulbazak]

You can do this literally quote by quote since there is only 4

please describe how you got a strong town read from this slot :3

The townread is from his predecessor: Zeus. Zeus was asking questions and helping to solve the game. I didn't get a buddying vibe from him, and he was very sincere in his posting. That was a very strong townread for me. Snarky is just acting like Snarky right now. I assume that there's a reason for his actions, and that he'll tell us eventually. At most, questioning was needed, and TB already did so.

Okay first off, I don't exactly get your perspective here? What did any of the Hunger Games have to do with this?

You threaten to scumread me and expect that I'd back down. Given that you got to know me as a player during Hunger Games, I only have to wonder if you came away with a false impression if you thought that'd somehow work on me and not tick me off as any alignment. Although, that might have been the point.

If anything related, I'd refer back to how I hated arguing with you, but I want your take on me directly challenging you and willfully picking a fight.

Instigating a confrontation doesn't imply towniness. In fact, it's a really good way to hide, and I used to do it a lot as scum.

and like, you didn't engage with any of the reasoning, and just gave it your own. To this very moment you use your own interpretation of the Aronis vote when I clearly stated it was to be used a sorting tool which I very clearly described in the post below

Except if you read my post, I did engage with that reasoning. I just didn't quote it. And RVS can be used as evidence, since it's not always random. And given the pre-game section, it was pretty obvious that early votes were going to fly to Aronis.

That's literally all you say on that topic, it's nothingness. So a question I want answered, is why do you have literally no expression of a thought dealing with reasoning, yet your push on me is that I'm pushing weak reasoning on players. I HAVE reasoning, while your pushing me on stuff that you've shown no real support for besides making a statement.

My reads come from my interactions with other players, especially early on. If a read seems kinda sudden to you, you can always ask how I came to that conclusion, and most of the times I will even tell you.

But that's besides the point, because we both know that you don't need to know alignments to know when a wagon or a push is off. And I don't need to freaking know their alignments to point out a pattern of voting that does not seem right.

This will be a great learning moment for me, possibly. I've never seen this theory of seeing a push as bad on D1. Just learn me up on this because I don't agree with it, but I don't want to argue with something that I don't understand.

Check out Hilariously Unbalanced 2 for an example of me attacking and pushing against a bad wagon. In that case, it was based on the composition. In this case, I didn't see the initial backlash on Snarky that'd I'd expect. That tells me that scum are already content with the current state of the wagons. That was the ultimate tipping point of my getting off CE.

It's called scumhunting. You see something that looks off and push at it.

So, you have admitted that the snarky thing was weird, meaning it looked off, and I pushed it. That's called scum hunting. So what did I actually do wrong?

There was no questioning. It was a vote attacking a post that looked off. That's not really pushing. Pushing requires more effort.

*coughs* V/LA at a summer camp *coughs* Besides the point, once I got home, and I started pushing TB, I think we can agree that the level of activity in me pushing a slot increased exponentially? Yay, or nay; if nay, give a reason to say?

Point. I'm kinda on vacation now as well, and I've probably been posting more than I should. I feel like I could be doing more, though, and that I'm partially responsible for things dying down.

One question

what is stopping you from voting me?

I'm conflicted. I'm torn between that earlier read and wanting you to be town and all the paranoia that the Snarky event caused. It seems so wrong that scum wouldn't jump on that, and TB is expected there, as he'd definitely vote an unexplained townread on himself. But otherwise... And I don't know whether this is a well reasoned and proper push or if I'm losing it. I feel like I'm losing my solid footing in this game, and that's casting doubt on several of my reads, because I'm not convinced there may be some undue paranoia there.

Okay but what do you think about Gin doing it? And what's your stance on her?

I'm not sure. I'm really not.

Also this is a lot of words and I'm not understanding what you're saying

That's okay. I think I started rambling there. It was mostly me struggling with my Gin read and their actions recently.

aronis can you read my titus case?

can anyone else acknowledge that they intend to read it besides Kelvin?

I read it, and it's mostly in line with my read.

if there's anytime to try to catch Titus-scum, now is the time to do so.

Elaborate?

Titus is one of those class of players that grows stronger as the game goes on, regardless of alignment (I'm one, too.), so if she's scum, she's just going to be more difficult to lynch later on.

Math, someone, talk to me. I just don't know anymore. I'm going to take this day and think. I'll put my vote down again tomorrow.

Gin doesn't do the cheap hostility and discrediting with zero argumentation thing as town. He has no depth as scum and he has no depth here. He's not interested in talking to anyone and he doesn't even seem to have any reads. It's just scum.

Maybe.

Also, can Math just stop it with the role thing. It's getting annoying/distracting.

I have other things I need to do, so I'll pick this up at page 55 later.

[Bulbazak]

@Math: I think you're getting some of your games mixed up. Please watch that. Also, I think I see what you see in regards to Aelita. I don't think Texcat does, though.

@Titus: Are you actually reading the game?

[Bulbazak]

@Math: I actually just think Texcat was confused. And either way, I don't think that's alignment indicative. And above all, none of that is why she might be scum.

[Bulbazak]

I've played with her more often, and that would be an anomaly, at least the "less certain" part. I do agree that she mostly tries to stay out of the way or ingratiate herself when scum. As town, she's willing to butt heads to defend her views, even if those views don't make sense. She floods the place with content when interacting with other players, especially players who she believes should know her better, like myself. There ends up being a lot of give and take. This game? None of that. Docile? Check-ish. Less aggressive? Definitely a check there. So...Titus is essentially playing to that scum meta you just described. Why aren't you voting her?

I'm not voting her because I don't see the more docile side of her. Also, still Day 1, which she has many times professed to hate, so her not being in full active mode isn't really a surprise. Though even with that, she's still one of the most active players in the game. And she's been pushing her alternative narrative pretty much the entire time, just like I'd expect.

-Kelvin

I haven't felt her presence in this game since the beginning of d1.

then can you drag me and bulba to the light side cause the current ppl over here are awful

I thought you liked the Dark Side?
But yeah, the Dark PT has suddenly become a very silly place.

yeah. this is why I try to stick to the factual arguments. stuff like this happens in the really weird mushy part of my brain where everything makes sense but you can't explain it. that part of my thought process is pretty indescribable but it's remarkably more accurate.

When I talk about gut, this is what I'm talking about. I know something pinged, but I can't figure out what, at least not at that moment. It normally solidifies after a few days of thought.

I'm starting a fight

VOTE: MathBlade

woah there
is this about the light pt thing
because that escalated waaaaay out of proportion imo

What's happening in the Light PT that would explain that vote?

[Bulbazak]

Going to get to this tomorrow. Caught food poisoning on my flight Thursday, and I've been out of it since. It looks like there's at least 20 pages, so I'm not sure how long it'll take me.

[Bulbazak]

Lost the post I was typing while at work, but I'll summarize the most important part. Concerning the Aronis mason "controversy":

Wow. This entire game thread is the equivalent of the aliens in Galaxy Quest. Do you guys need a sarcasm sign for everything Aronis says, or do we need to physically add a nuance detector?

How about I make that easy for you all:



Moving on to page 75.

[Bulbazak]

@Eddie, Aronis tried to pass him and Rauth off as dark pt masons. You see that?

If you have a problem with Vedith shooting you, you should have a problem with aronis.

I feel there's far too many words and people are just opposing this because they don't want the cute spammer to be scum.

I did see that and I am watching both of them. Mainly because I feel that it's a T+S pairing IF they are true masons. Also, cute spammer? TF does that have to do with anything?

T+S is impossible by definition of masons?

Like masons by definition are Town who know the other is town?

Townread on Eddie grows for the derp!tell and scumread grows on experienced players who didn't bring this up.

Eddie knows better. I literally told him that scum masons are impossible in a non-bastard game during our very first hydra game

four years ago

. Eddie knows scum masons are impossible. This is fake.

Aronis claimed Masons with me. I can confirm that my role fragment supports this, but I was not told what my role was or who I was linked with. Since Aronis is in the dark, he would then have to be mafia in order to make that claim.

Do you really think he'd have a mason with you fake claim as mafia? Given how masons work, and that this is not a bastard game, that'd be impossible. There's a lot you can take from what Aronis said, Mason fake claim is not one of them.

well me and rauth are masons so that makes sense.
I guess I'll give you a second chance if you re-evaluate now titus

CE, look at this in context, and it becomes obvious that what Aronis said was not serious.

On to page 85.

[Bulbazak]

Where does it say that in the Wiki? It implies that having scum Masons is bastardry and it says non-town Masons are non-Normal, but this isn't a Normal setup, right? I was under the impression it doesn't have to follow Normal rules.

-Kelvin

Theme games don't have to be Normal, but if they're bastard, they have to be advertised as such. Non-normal =/= bastard.

If anything, I'd be willing to lynch in that pool because 2/4 are scum reads of mine (Ved and Titus).

Explain your Vedith and Titus scumreads, because frankly, they've came out of nowhere, and you've explained diddly squat.

OH MY GOD I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE RAILGUN
I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE KUROKO TOO OMG OMG OMG OMG THAT MUST ME YOU ARE A GREAT PERSON I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYONE POST RAILGUN GIFS DURING A MAFIA GAME OMG OMG OMG

I'm fanboying atm i'm sry

Actually, I just looked for headdesk gifs, and I thought that one was the most appropriate.

I need to check again, but did he say that he is investigative and linked? Or was the linked thing a lie?

-Kelvin

He said he was investigative. The mason thing was sarcasm.

So the coincidence of Rauth actually being town linked is astronomical.

Stranger things have happened. But as strange as it is, and considering that Mastin provides fake claims, the alternative of Aronis being scum and claiming that doesn't make sense.

Caught up, but need to do end of shift work stuff. Final analysis and answering PT questions later tonight.

[Bulbazak]

Titus comes from gut and in all honesty QR's pbpa hit a lot of points I would have made.

You can do better than this. If I can give reasons for my Titus read, you sure the heck can as well.

Ved, I've mentioned why I think he's scum on more than 1 occasion. So you've read my posts for diddly squat, sir.

Then remind me, because I don't recall ever seeing you talk about Vedith.

It was certainly anti-town to involve Rauth and force him to claim.

No one forced Rauth to do anything.

...No.

I think eddie is Town and we should flashwagon Texcat if we don't lynch scumclaiming Snarky.

Explain your Eddie townread to me. And "he just is" won't cut it.

why Eddie over dramonic
Eddie at least has content at all

dramonic is sorting people, Eddie is not.

How is Dramonic sorting people? He's posted one liners and prod dodges.

Vote Eddie Fenix

[Bulbazak]

@Eddie: I do know you, and that's how I've reached the conclusion you're scum. You're being overtheatrical, but there's no real essence or core to anything that you do. There's no meat. Your Vedith scumread? Yeah, I missed that was in anyway serious, because you essentially just discussed a fake vig, which is not alignment indicative. And that's what it boils down to essentially: You're focusing on worthless crap like the fake vig or mechanics, and you're not actually digging in like I know you can. You're putting on a show. I know you can read me if I'm overtly town, which was why you not acknowledging that at the beginning of the game bothered me. Because I know for sure that you of all people would have picked up on that. I also knew that if you were unable to post in the main thread that you'd at least post in the PT and be using that for all it's worth. Hence why I was asking those questions. And you weren't. You've had reasons for not having time to post a lot this game day, but guess what? So did I. And nothing's changed much from the time I was up there to now, so that can't be why you avoided the thread.

In essence, you're a fireball when town and try to blend in when scum. And I just haven't seen that fire.

Whatever, we can at least give the claimed Cop a chance to prove himself.

UNVOTE: SnarkySnowman
VOTE: EddieFenix

-Kelvin

Kinda where I am at but Bulba voting Eddie creeps me out

I've been talking about my growing scumread in the PT for awhile.

Oh, and Eddie, Voyeaur is a weak as crap role, so you definitely weren't laying low for that.

[Bulbazak]

Is cop too overpowered for this setup?

Cop would be incredibly powerful this game. But everyone is going to be some sort of PR, and we know that mafia have fake claims. And I trust Mastina enough that any of these claims we hear won't be implausible enough to be fake. So no breaking the game that way.

@Math: Stop obsessing about people claiming or softing. This is role madness. It's going to happen.
And no. Eddie is scum.

[Bulbazak]

We must be reading 2 totally separate games. Ved's actions/posts don't hold weight and you know that. But keep trying to delude the rest of the people into thinking that it's fine for his actions/posts to be bad.

When did I say they held weight? The Aronis push was crap, and we tangled about it early on. Since then, he's kinda been here and there, but there really wasn't anything substantial for me to get a read, especially since my early Dark interactions with him suggested that he might not be scum. Could he be? Maybe. But the fake vig thing is not why, and you know that.

And you've also been around long enough to see fake vigs in action and not be phased by them. So why did you make it a point to kick up so much fuss about one?

I'm not using the Light PT because I know scum Bulb's move set and have kept that in the back of my head since the beginning. I don't want to tip my hand because I know as a scum player, you take charge of your team.

WHAT?!? Are you saying that you're not using the Light PT to scumhunt because...I might use my partners, as scum, to find out all your secrets

somehow

? I mean, that makes no freaking sense. For one, I don't recall this game having mafia day chat. And I even went back to look at the rules, and I didn't see anything there. Now, I may have missed it, but you're telling me that you're not using the light PT because you're afraid that I'd be actively role fishing

you

?!

Come on, Eddie. You're going to have to do better than that.

I'll pass on using something that can destroy my ability to hone in and tackle your game.

What about using it to figure out the other players in your PT or to further scumhunt? You have freaking Titus and Gin in there! You're telling me that you decided not to figure them out early because you were scared of me before the game even started? Bull crap!

Add to the fact that most of the meat has come from a few players, with a lot of the pages at the tail end of threads being people battling for page tops, my bloody eyes glaze over that last part 90% of the time where one entire PAGE my eyes glazed over from Creature spam.

And what stopped you from participating before Creature joined?

Voyeur is not weak as you try and paint it to be. So don't you dare try to discredit that fact.

Wow. You watch somebody and see what actions are performed on them, but not who did it. Yes, you are just as powerful as a cop, watcher, or tracker. Even hiders quake in fear at your awesome powers.

You know my lynch sucks and you leapt at the wagon early on to hide yourself in it.

You think I'm hiding? Seriously, I come out of nowhere and vote you, and somehow I'm trying to be sneaky? You know my scum game better dude. We've had discussions on optimal scum play. And you know that if I was scum, there's no way I'd come out of nowhere to jump on a sudden wagon on

you

of all people. I'd either jump on Snarky or Aronis for compromise reasons or try to start Texcat back up.

That'd

be hiding, not this crap you're trying to peddle here.

[Bulbazak]

This cold feet on Eddie thing is ridiculous. Gin, you were in Hunger Games. This is Eddie's scum game when he can't hide inside a hydra or day chat.

[Bulbazak]

@bulba daychat is guaranteed because the mafia has a factional action they can use during the day

They can use it at twilight and dawn. I didn't take that to mean they had day chat.

@Mastin: Do the mafia have day chat?

<<< Answered in 2756. >>>

This cold feet on Eddie thing is ridiculous. Gin, you were in Hunger Games. This is Eddie's scum game when he can't hide inside a hydra or day chat.

In a setup where at least a quarter of town doesn't know their role, doesn't it make sense to have a voyuer?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's town. I expect almost every role to be represented in this game in some way. And like I said before, I trust Mastin enough to not make it easy to break the game just based on claims alone.

[Bulbazak]

What's your Creature read?

Leaning town. I mean, I could live without him, and the slot's previous owner didn't do anything to make me think the slot might be town, but this doesn't look like the scum Creature I played with in Hunger Games.

If we lynch Eddie and are wrong, a wide range of roles opens up.

Um...What?

[Bulbazak]

@Titus: I can also see the strengths of scum having a voyeur-like role as well. But roles aside, I'm not seeing anything from Eddie that makes me think he's even remotely town.

[Bulbazak]

To be fair, you were doing diddly squat at the start of day, and your actions and reads did seem a little too convenient. That didn't look like the town Titus I knew. After my Ginngie fight, I felt that my reads were getting too jumbled, and I took a step back to evaluate. Not sure where I fall on you now, but you're here, and that's something.

[Bulbazak]

But Titus, I know Eddie. I've hydra'd enough with him to know how he operates as town and scum. And I gave him a lot of leeway this dayphase, and I made excuses for him, but the bottom line is that he's not playing how I'd expect him to as town, and he is playing more like his scum game. So I can't ignore it anymore. I can post my full thoughts from the PT for you if you want. It explains everything.

[Bulbazak]

It started with his vote on me. I know we have kind of an ongoing joke, but I was very active during pregame, and there was enough there for him to get a reliable read on me. That's why I prodded him on that at the beginning. I thought if it was just a joke, fine, but that vote should have gone back off rather quickly, since Eddie knows me enough to have spotted how transparantly town I was being. He let that vote ride way too long. Then there's his lack of activity in the thread. I didn't make a big deal of it, because he kinda had a bit of an excuse here and there, enough to give him some leeway. First there was E3, then I was away and he was doing the lion's share of the streaming for Critical Reset... But I found time to post during my trip, and even with him having some additional responsibilities, that shouldn't have kept him from posting. And I haven't gotten back to taking over the streaming since I got back, and he's been able to post more, so there was nothing stopping him during those two weeks from actually being active in the thread. Eddie likes to keep his head down as scum. That's why he hid in the hydra and scum day chat in Hunger Games, letting me do all the talking. He thinks he's a great manipulator, but he doesn't like to interact too much. As town, he gets his hands dirty, and he's not afraid to fight. Ever since he's started posting regularly, Eddie hasn't been saying anything of substance. He'd be in the middle of things and asking some hard hitting questions, not talking only about mechanics and fake vig shots. And while he's doing this, he's throwing up false bravado, which he doesn't need as town. He's putting on a show, but he's not really doing anything.

[Bulbazak]

How I approached this game and Eddie: Use the PTs and pregame early to get a headstart on figuring out alignments. Give Eddie some time so that I can more accurately read him, and if town, work with him to game solve.

How Eddie wants us to believe he approached the game: Don't use PTs and don't post in the thread. Bulba IS scum. Don't question it. Don't game solve. He's out to get you Eddie. And he'll use his magical scummy powers to do so. And you're powerless to stop it.

Given that we've played in multiple Mastin games together, including Maniacal and both Hilariously Unbalanced, and given that he's never done this and always been quick to read and interact with me, am I really supposed to buy this level of bull crap paranoia he's trying to sell.

[Bulbazak]

Also, when/where did I say ROLE fishing me?

I inquire about why you've been absent in your PT, and your reasoning is that you don't want to be exposed by the scum team. As if I'm moving them around right this minute like a puppet master, with my imaginary day chat, and you are in danger. The only reason you'd be worry would be role related. Since you were attempting to explain why you haven't posted ALL DAY, then I took that to mean you were afraid of imaginary role fishing, and that'd I'd find out before night.

I'm going on the lines of knowing my thoughts and where I'm going/what I'm going to do. You take charge of your scum team, so you can maneuver around people like chess. TBH, the light pt for me has been just meh. It helped me sort QR and Mathblade. They're town to me.

And I don't expect for you to be entirely transparent with your actions in the PT if town. How does this explain you not doing anything in the PT, the one place I'd expect you to be digging in and sorting?

I also know you'd not be stupid enough to vote for Snarky for "compromise" reasons, especially with his cop claim.

Good job avoiding the actual point I made, i.e. why it doesn't make sense that I'd vote you as scum. Yeah, deflect to Snarky. Good boy.

Nothing stopped me from participating bar my v/la that I had to take for personal stuff. I'm saying my eyes start to glaze over toward the bottom when I see spam posts trying to claim the page top.

And nothing here explains why you've lurked your butt off. I know why you were V/LA. You took that time those 3 days I came to visit you. I accounted for E3. You are trying to play me like I don't know what's going on, and I know for a fact that nothing was stopping you from posting during that 2 week span that I was up north. Just like nothing's stopping you now.

My vote lasted on you too long at the start? Weak as hell to start.

It did. I know you well enough to know you should have seen my play and recognized me as town. I felt it. That's the towniest I've played since the last line of HU. And I know that you can catch that, because you've read games of mine before where I was playing exactly like that and saw immediately I was town. So the fact that you're trying to play ignorant here is telling. That's why I prodded you on it in the beginning, because you weren't acting the way I expected you to as town.

My activity? I keep a pulse on the game and knew it was going to be a long day 1 because of how swingy things always are.

So let everyone else do all the work and you'll sit and watch, is that it? You're going to have to do better than that.

I'm getting my hands dirty by challenging those who have this terrible scum read on me and at this point.

So just because you just ask "Why am I scum?" a bunch and nothing else, I'm supposed to magically see you as town? That's not how this works, Eddie, and you know it.

You're parroting most of the arguments being thrown in my direction at this rate, just attempting to wall it and make it look pretty.

I posted that in the PT before those arguments ever came out. Don't you dare start this crap with me. You know better.

And you didn't think I at least didn't attempt to think the same way while also remaining cautious of you?

Except you didn't. At all. You didn't try to figure me out. You didn't try to figure out if I was using the PT to sort people or how I was using the PT. But me? Yeah. I made it a priority to figure out if you or Titus or Gin were using all the tools at your disposal, because I knew you would as town. What did you think all those questions to Zeus were about at the beginning of the day? I was trying to sort you. I was trying to figure out if you were just lurking/coasting, or if you were starting to scumhunt. So don't try to say that you were trying to do the same thing, because we have interviews and evidence in thread that points to you not doing any of that.

This post is putting words in my mouth as well as attempting to paint me as paranoid.

Except you're trying to paint yourself that way. You've spent so much time saying things like "If that day vig is real, then you'll be sorry!" or worrying about scum masons, which you have known for 4 years now are not a thing on this site, especially not in non-bastard games, or more recently, saying that you weren't posting anything in the light PT because you were afraid of me. I may be overexaggerating to drive home a point, but you still said all of that.

[Bulbazak]

I have to go DM a game. I doubt I'll be back before deadline. Lynch Eddie. Don't let him talk his way out and not do anything. He's scum.

[Bulbazak]

@Titus: What took so long? I thought that would have been an easy decision, given the Light's preoccupation with that Mason foolishness.

Vote Dramonic

Bringing this out of the dark into the light. Starting with...

Hey Dram!

You avoided explaining this, but I gave 5 names that were conf. town to me, and you called them all scum before saying "Well...they're not all scum, but they're not all town.". So, you find them all scummy, even though you seem to want to dance around that word. I want to know why.
For the record, here are the names:
Aronis
Rauth
CE
A2
Quantum

[Bulbazak]

Gin? Kelvin?

Best guesses from my VC analysis last night. Otherwise, I'd need to look again to see who is over there.

[Bulbazak]

I'd also pocket BTD6.

[Bulbazak]

Titus wanted to see who we'd vote first before outing. Until that point, I'm fine with voting Dramonic.

[Bulbazak]

I've given you who I think it's most likely to be. In the meantime, can we at least pretend we're not going to let Dramonic lurk again?

[Bulbazak]

Well until that bigger fish is revealed, I'll sit on this one. I'm not playing guessing games.

[Bulbazak]

And you want me to guess who was role copped? And since when is a role cop a town role? Are yall sure you know what you're doing over there?

This is a scum reaction.

@Rauth: I think I was pretty clear in the Dark about wanting to reset and reevaluate a lot of those players. I did give Quantum as one of my strong townreads, and I think BTD6 might be scum, although that's not strong. Gin and Kelvin were both names I talked about during my analysis, although I think I need more there than just VCs, and I've been actively trying to get some feedback in the PT, but to no avail. Titus was a priority for me to sort today, so ask me later.

But you know all this, because I went over all this at length n1.

[Bulbazak]

How so?

[Bulbazak]

@CE: You've never gone over the Gin read. Last we talked, you said you were conflicted, but you never were around to discuss it further. Also, you've never explained why you think Kelvin being obviously town leads to scum moving them into the Light PT.

@Cirno: Are you claiming strongman?

[Bulbazak]

Nevermind. I was just a little confused what you were talking about. Still am...

[Bulbazak]

Tell your other head to get in here.

[Bulbazak]

She just posted. She can get back in just long enough to answer.

[Bulbazak]

It's hard to respect it whenever she disappears when I want to discuss reads. This happened a lot during n1, and I'm starting to get sick of it. I was wanting to discuss reads specifically with your hydra, and I feel like I'm being avoided.

[Bulbazak]

Heck, Dramonic was chattier than Nancy, and he's freaking Bloody Mary!

[Bulbazak]

If I could quote from the PT, I would. That's almost literally, word for word, what you said.

[Bulbazak]

How about you stop dancing around the real issue and answer the question: Why are you scumreading each of those 5 people?

[Bulbazak]

That's about right. I'm going to be documenting everything in the PT, because this is ridiculous. And he still hasn't answered the base question.

[Bulbazak]

I'm getting so sick and tired of this semantics games that I've actually asked Mastin what my options are regarding PT posts in this thread. Because I've literally asked Dramonic to give a reason why he's scum reading those 5 names (6 initially. Snarky was on the list.) 5 times now, and I have yet to get an answer.

[Bulbazak]

I was pushing him at one point about his Aronis read, and he literally attempted to discredit me by throwing the Eddie lynch in my face. He blamed me for the lynch, told me I had no right to say anything, but at no point did he call me scum. In fact, the only read he gave earlier in the night on me was "probably town". But there's no suspicion at all when he refers to me "building a BS case that gets town lynched". In fact, he treats me fully as town, and he uses the lynch as a weapon to try to shut me up.

[Bulbazak]

I also think it's funny that he showed up after I called him Bloody Mary.

[Bulbazak]

I was the one on vacation. He was at home.

[Bulbazak]

I know there's a guilty coming, and that will likely be the lynch, but I don't want there to be the impression that this Dram push is unsubstantial pressure. After n1, I'm convinced this is a lynch that needs to happen.

[Bulbazak]

Have you not explained why you scum read his town reads?

He has not, and I've asked multiple times.

[Bulbazak]

And apparently asking for explanations is being salty now.

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

If there's a list you disagree with, the normal town reaction is to ask "Why are you townreading them?", not say "Could you try putting someone remotely town on your list?". The first engages about reads and attempts to figure out why that person has those reads. The other attempts to discredit and call them all scum. Hence why I asked why Dramonic was scumreading everyone on the list, or, after he danced around a bit, asked who he found town and scum on the list respectably. I have not gotten any sort of answer, and now Dram is trying to paint me as a whiner as opposed to someone trying to understand his thought process.

[Bulbazak]

And you called me insensitive...

Shame!

[Bulbazak]

I even asked him at one point to say who was town and who was scum on that list. He's not giving anything.

[Bulbazak]

So you think that was the primary reason Kelvin was moved to the Light?

[Bulbazak]

So who suggested this gambit? I think I know, but I just want to confirm.

[Bulbazak]

Cool. It was Titus. That's all I need to know. It means she's likely town here.

[Bulbazak]

And this is where Nancy being gone is going to drive me crazy. She said in the Dark PT that there was a lot of evidence in thread that pointed to Kelvin being town, and that's why they were moved to the Light PT. Except, scum were the ones who did the moving. So I asked her why scum would move Kelvin to the Light PT if he was so obviously town. I haven't gotten a response yet.

[Bulbazak]

I get that, and I didn't mean to sound insensitive. But that's essentially how the entirety of n1 went, and it's driving me bonkers. So for her to come in, drop a scumread on me, then peace out, when I've been trying to sync up with her all night, I end up being a little frustrated.

[Bulbazak]

Three people protecting Snarky? That seems like a lot of protectors in this game. And the order of claims was Ginngie, Titus, Creature? Is that right?

Actually, that seems about right for protectives. We might even have 1 or 2 more, depending on how Mastin balanced this. We also don't know what 2 of those protective claims are, so they could be strong or weak. The point is, there being at least 3 protective roles is actually extremely plausible, especially in a role madness game.

No he could be bus driver or roleblocker or redirector or any manipulative role I cited from the wiki.

Again you're starting from a OMG has to be a strongman and working from it versus all the angles.

Bus driver is a huge assumption. Strongman is the simplest answer, and with all things being equal, the simplest answer has the best chance of being correct. And regardless of what scum could or could not have, that still means there's scum in the light PT. So I'm not sure why you're making this argument.

It's more plausible there's a limited strongman.

Why do you think the strongman would be limited?

As far as I am concerned we have proof scum exists in light a 96% chance of happening and I am not going to hunt for a mythical strongman that may or may not exist and could be a factional ability or there are liars and I am much more prone to thinking there is a liar based off your posts.

So we have proof of scum existing in light, mainly from claims, but you don't want to hunt for said scum because "there be liars, y'all!"?

Unvote
Vote Mathblade

BTD might be scum too, but Math is actively trying to distract from the night actions that point to scum in light. There's a lot of mechanical talk, and it all boils down to throwing out ludicrous ideas that don't mean squat in the long term. It's the "look over there" tactic of mafia. Also, it's very similar to the jester tell, where anyone who tries to distract from another player's scumminess by suggesting jester might be scum protecting a buddy.

[Bulbazak]

Do you need him to be at L-2 rather than L-3? Because he's really more of a PoE read for me, and I just wanted to push something that actually looked suspect as crap.

[Bulbazak]

I'm going to bed now. We can talk more about this later. I doubt BTD will be back until Monday anyway.

[Bulbazak]

Why do you think the strongman would be limited?

Full strongmans are bad and moderators should know it.

That doesn't mean that there isn't one here. Assume the strongman is full and hope that it isn't.

town: bulb, kelv, ging, rauth, QR, math
mehtown: btd, cirno, vedith,
mehscum: CE, texcat, a2
scum: titus, aronis, creature

yay for wasting time

Why is Kelvin town? Heck, why are Rauth and Quantum townreads for you now? Last I checked, you had them both as scum. Also, explain Math. And given how adamant you were about my town list, why are CE and A2 scummy to you? A2 especially. Like, what the heck?

@Bulba, Math is walking on the moon and stubborn bc not in control. It's anti-town. I would compromise on BTD but I strongly feel players like Kelvin and QR need pressure

I don't know. I expect something useful out of moon logic, even if it does feel anti-town at times. This is just distracting, and I was getting the real sense that was the entire point. Also, given the fact that Math has been more preoccupied with roles and mechanics, and not enough with actual sorting, I'm beginning to think there's a pattern here that shouldn't be dismissed as merely anti-town.

It isn't antitown to insist we consider everything.

It is when you try to distract and discredit useful information gathered from power roles that point to scum being in a certain direction. You are saying "We should consider everything!", but what you're really saying is "Pay no attention to the scum behind the curtain and return to business as usual!".

[Bulbazak]

I don't think anyone said they should. I'm looking at Kelvin for non-related reasons.

[Bulbazak]

As for your second point
I kinda don't want to hunt for specificly the strongman either.
I want to hunt for scum.
Does that make sense?

We can argue about whether or not it's strongman until we both turn blue. The point is that night actions point to scum in the light. Not only that, but it's likely important scum in the light. Given that, we lynch in the light.

[Bulbazak]

Yeah but
Bulb Math is voting someone who is In the Light.
Like
you're whole arguement for MathBlade being scum is they're not hunting in the light.
But they're voting BTD
Who is in the light.

Doesn't matter. Math's trying to distract from the strongman hunt, i.e. keeping us from looking for the confirmable scum PR. The semantics BS doesn't matter, but Math is obsessed with "If you scumread anyone, light or dark, vote them.", even though we now have really good evidence to point to confirmable scum in a smaller pool. Math's focus is to open up the field of search, not narrow it down.

Mass Roleblock.

Why would you even think this is a thing?

What's the VC? Part of me wants to vote BTD, but part of me also thinks this is a set up. I think Math is very likely here.

[Bulbazak]

I'm conflicted on BTD. There's all the reasons given why he's probably scum, and he's not scumhunting or anything. But that whole tracker result thing sounds too stupid to make up, and part of me thinks that's town.

[Bulbazak]

It's the being excited about "went nowhere" but realized he read it wrong part. That's pretty much too dumb to make up. I actually kinda believe it.

[Bulbazak]

Then why make it up? He could have just said he got a no result instead of making up that story.

[Bulbazak]

If he actually misread, then that means he's probably town. If he's scum, my question is why make up something so stupid.

I'm also trying to decide how much I actually care.

P-edit: Because I'm having a hard time understanding why he'd make something like that up as scum.

[Bulbazak]

@CE: I still want to know why you think scum would move Kelvin in the light because he was obviously town.

[Bulbazak]

Huh?

[Bulbazak]

No.

[Bulbazak]

I mean, why would you even do so?

[Bulbazak]

The switch is entirely scum control. So you're essentially saying that everyone in the Light PT figured out who scum are, forced them to send Kelvin over, and are now playing with them in the main thread for funsies?

[Bulbazak]

The Cirno/Kelvin switch was entirely scum controlled.

[Bulbazak]

Okay Math, why were you so eager to jump in front of the bullet for CE?

[Bulbazak]

What do you think about Vedith?

I think it's possible that he's town but I'm certainly not townreading him and I'm going to need to do more work on the read to get any kind of a confident take on the slot. His scumtell, while pretty garbage, is something he does seem to pretty stubbornly believe in and I think the mistaken psychology that he's using as a basis for it is something I can find understandable even if I don't find it valid or agree with it at all.

My problem is that there's no evolution to the read, and he's just been sitting on it and doing nothing.

@Vedith: What did you think of my reasoning for Aronis-town in the Dark PT? You didn't seem to comment on that.

@RC: Why is Titus scum?

[Bulbazak]

What do you think that means for RC's alignment?

[Bulbazak]

Doesn't mean we can't try to sort them.

[Bulbazak]

Has your Gin read evolved any?

[Bulbazak]

I'd prefer a Math lynch today.

[Bulbazak]

I think she's town.

I think so, too. The night stuff from the Light, plus her play today cemented that for me.

I really don't like this Titus wagon that's cropping up. I don't think Titus does that reaction test bit as scum. Multiple protectives make sense here.

P-edit: If BTD was trying to frame Math, he wouldn't have acted confused about his result.

[Bulbazak]

@CE: What's your Creature read? I feel like I actually need to break down actions when I have the time, since I think we may be able to PoE this. Creature is key in that regard, and I'd like your thoughts there.

P-edit: Why assume that Titus is the scum strongman here?

[Bulbazak]

@CE: What's your Creature read? I feel like I actually need to break down actions when I have the time, since I think we may be able to PoE this. Creature is key in that regard, and I'd like your thoughts there.

I think he's extremely town. How familiar are you with Creature meta? He's well beyond his scum range here.

I was scum with Creature in Hunger Games II. I agree he looks really town here. I'm just trying to make sense of a few things, and I know Creature is key. I wanted to make sure my read wasn't off or that it didn't inform any later analysis.

@A2: I think you're bending over backwards to try to fit a scum-Titus into the narrative. With what we have right now, it doesn't make much sense.

P-edit: Gin, vote Math with us.

[Bulbazak]

RC, please don't do this. You can not get along with Gin, but she's town and Math's scum. Please lynch the Math-scum with us.

P-edit: @A2: Even if scum?

[Bulbazak]

I don't think Math is ascetic, but I also think it's foolish to think they'd claim it as scum just because they would as town.

[Bulbazak]

Yeah...Go with that...It's definitely not that you're scum trying to discredit results or anything.

[Bulbazak]

@CE: What other reads did you want to talk to me about? Or have a question about?

[Bulbazak]

I don't know what a Railgun is, and I don't care. Do you think BTD plays exactly like you as scum or town?

[Bulbazak]

oh yeah btw

Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.

So you're scumreading me here then?

I don't know what a Railgun is, and I don't care. Do you think BTD plays exactly like you as scum or town?

Not required.

You're saying scum don't do things. I demonstrated scum do. The honus is on you to demonstrate BTD6 scum wouldn't fake a derp. I have seen BTD6 town and this ain't it. I destroyed your argument. It is up to you to reinforce it or acknowledge you don't have a point and are trying to save BTD6

Different players are different and different standards apply. From what I've seen, BTD6 isn't a player capable of faking that kind of confusion in the way that he did. In fact, I doubt that an idea like that would occur to him as scum. You are a different case, but don't try to muddy the issue by confusing yourself with BTD6. The question is whether BTD6 is capable of that as scum. I'm not sure that he is. You seem to think that he definitely could fake it. Why? Has he done this before? Where? When?

BTD6 could have blocked me or maybe he didn't.

Are you saying that you were blocked now?

@A2: 1.) We don't know what those boons are capable of doing. For all we know, they could just be an additional power that only an individual scum can use, which is what the rules makes it sound like. If that's the case, nothings changed in regards to how we're hunting. If it's not, then we'll figure it out, but they still have to be in the light to use it, so, nothing's still changed in how we're hunting. 2.) Math is using the boon argument to say that non-light scum could have done any or all of what we have evidence of. In other words, Math is still trying to discredit the act of using all the powers at our disposal to PoE scum in the light by telling us we don't necessarily need to look there. Math's trying to keep the door open while we are trying to close it and narrow things down.

[Bulbazak]

If you have a solid take on any of Aronis, BTD, texcat, Narna or Rauth I'd like to hear it.

Aronis is a strong townread. I'm not wild about BTD, but I'm starting to think he may be town here. Not sure on Texcat or Narna. Rauth and Quantum are strong townreads.

[Bulbazak]

Creature, it's role madness. Town has PRs everywhere. Everyone's a PR. Just not everyone is active.

P-edit: Take a glance at the source game. I was scum there.

[Bulbazak]

@A2: 1.) We don't know what those boons are capable of doing. For all we know, they could just be an additional power that only an individual scum can use, which is what the rules makes it sound like. If that's the case, nothings changed in regards to how we're hunting. If it's not, then we'll figure it out, but they still have to be in the light to use it, so, nothing's still changed in how we're hunting. 2.) Math is using the boon argument to say that non-light scum could have done any or all of what we have evidence of. In other words, Math is still trying to discredit the act of using all the powers at our disposal to PoE scum in the light by telling us we don't necessarily need to look there. Math's trying to keep the door open while we are trying to close it and narrow things down.

Really?
Because to me, Math is coming across as "I AM BANGING MY HEAD ON A WALL OH MY GOD WHY IS NO ONE LISTENING TO ME."

All Math has been talking about is mechanics, mechanics, mechanics. And the thing is, all that mechanical talk should be pointing to the same conclusion: Confirmed scum in Light. There's a small list of who it could be. Find the scumball.

But Math is more interested in the mechanics than in finding the scum, and furthermore, they are more interested in talking about how there is sooo much more scum outside of light, so we should keep our options open. That's it. Nothing on BTD, who we're supposed to believe is a top scumread. If Math was really banging their head against the wall, it'd be more in relation to that. But no, it's just mechanic talk that boils down to telling us to not necessarily look in light when we know for sure there is confirmed scum in a very small area. So yeah, not at all what you're saying there at all.

Why is Math such a strong townread for you that you're willing to repeatedly jump in front of bullets for them?

[Bulbazak]

And if you want to look at banging heads against a wall, look no further than this freaking conversation.

[Bulbazak]

There is a 96% chance there is a scum in dark too.

You keep saying this. Why?

[Bulbazak]

I don't think anyone's said all scum are in light. So that math's wrong. All you're doing is saying "Hey! Higher chance over there! Don't look too closely over here."

[Bulbazak]

And my point still stands. You're trying to discredit results and keep doors open.

[Bulbazak]

How are you even getting Dramonic-town?

[Bulbazak]

Scum can be confident, too.

[Bulbazak]

Scum can be confident, too.

lol see my scum game

Or mine.

[Bulbazak]

BTD6 could have blocked me or maybe he didn't.

Are you saying that you were blocked now?

Math, you never answered this.

[Bulbazak]

Why is Math such a strong townread for you that you're willing to repeatedly jump in front of bullets for them?

[Bulbazak]

BTD6 could have blocked me or maybe he didn't.

Are you saying that you were blocked now?

Math, you never answered this.

For the millionth time I don't know.

You don't know whether you were blocked or not?

It is like a righteous fury that hell or highwater this is happening

Except...He hasn't done anything. He refuses to explain reads. He's actively lurking. I mean, he's seriously at Beetlejuice levels here. If I didn't say anything, he'd just disappear. So again, where are you getting this righteous fury thing from?

[Bulbazak]

Can we literally just forget about this whole light and dark dichotomy and lynch scumfuck alisae

No.

i also think math might be town

Why?

So if that is the case and we do have a bus driver, then the following cannot be the Bus Driver:
Everyone in the dark right now
Myself (Because I was in the dark at the time night actions were made)
Ginngie (Because claimed jailkeeper, which makes sense because)
BTD6 (who was blocked because he was targeted by a jailkeeper.)

Those who could be the Bus Driver:
Mathblade (Who has been playing in a way I have come to consider town)
Titus (Who claimed protective)
Creature (Claimed 'something that would have effected Snarky's death')
QuantumRadius (Claimed had an action go through.)
Narna

.....

This is horrible for two reasons:

One of which is any scum has a power and something else while in light.
So Jailkeeper + Bus driver
BTD6 Tracker + Bus Driver

The other people don't see the point of listening to me so whatever. Very limited lunch break.

And now you're fighting the bus driver theory. Surprise, surprise. It's like you really don't want us looking too hard into the light, so any theory that looks into the light must be killed, even if it's one you championed that has started to gain favor.

Whatever, we can at least give the claimed Cop a chance to prove himself.

UNVOTE: SnarkySnowman
VOTE: EddieFenix

-Kelvin

I feel like this post implies he knew he was being swapped into Light.

basicly my origonal theory was that 2573 is Kelvin softing a roleblocking action and him going to use it on Snarky which made me think you were lieing at first because tbh you not jking Snarky and instead jking someone else and then having claimed to jk snarky for towncred is a thing.

Except that implies Kelvin started in light which he didn't, he started in the dark.
However, I feel like 2573 implies that he is going to use some type of action on Snarky to prove that Snarky was a cop.

This makes no sense. I don't see how that post meant that Kelvin knew they were going into the Light and that he planned on using an action on Snarky.

Mathblade - Moonlogicking. Would compromise but probably town. Bus driver theory is insane. Doesn't contribute enough aside from that.

And the not contributing thing isn't pinging you at all? That's all I've been shouting is that Math is only focusing on mechanics and trying to draw attention away from last night's actions.

BTD6_maker - Scum. Tried to fake a guilty on Math.

But if he was really scum trying to fake a guilty on Math, wouldn't he have done it better?

[Bulbazak]

What makes you think it was a gambit and not just him misreading his result? He didn't gain anything from it.

[Bulbazak]

What's up, CE?

[Bulbazak]

He reads town to me. A lot of his earlier reads were matching mine at the time, and for similar reasons, some of which I hadn't gone over at that point. I saw a lot of earnestness d1, some of which I've seen disappear today. However, that might be something we'll see happen as the game goes on. Some players get more exhausted when a game goes on. That might be the case with Quantum. Or it just might be overall town apathy. Results have kinda locked us into a certain course, and that's not giving him a lot of room to maneuver and scumhunt in the way he wants.

P-edit: The problem with that Gin is the amount of meat behind his reads. Yeah, there was a lot of pointless PbPA, but he also had some thought processes that I really can't see scum faking. He could have put in less effort by apeing other players' cases, like mine on Titus, instead of doing his own thing.

[Bulbazak]

That might be the case with Quantum. Or it just might be overall town apathy. Results have kinda locked us into a certain course, and that's not giving him a lot of room to maneuver and scumhunt in the way he wants.

Where in particular are you getting this feeling from him? I agree that he's been less of an emotional presence today; unsure what that means about his alignment at this stage.

D2 in general has just been sort of apathetic. I've been starting to feel that slump too, and part of the reason is because with a focus on only a few names in the light, there doesn't feel like there's a lot to really do or sink my teeth into. I know that I want to go back and look at a few things, but my rl habits haven't allowed for that as of yet. So, given what I'm feeling, and seeing how activity has kinda dropped in thread, and that even Aronis is kinda not posting as much either, I can understand if Quantum is not posting at the level that he did during d1. I don't think a drop off in presence is alignment indicative.

The problem with that Gin is the amount of meat behind his reads. Yeah, there was a lot of pointless PbPA, but he also had some thought processes that I really can't see scum faking. He could have put in less effort by apeing other players' cases, like mine on Titus, instead of doing his own thing.

Which thought proccesses in particular are you seeing here as being unfakeable? A lot of the analysis in his early Titus pbpa felt pretty basic and I'm not sure completely supported the scumread that QR expressed at the time; I don't feel that there's been a significant reevaluation of Titus from the slot since but I'm not convinced that's scum indicative in this case. I'm not sure that effort is going to be a valid reason to townread the slot; if he's showing signs of original thinking that he's genuinely invested in then that's a good point for the slot, but I'm not sure I've strongly gotten that sense from him overall. I'd like to see which parts of his iso in particular you feel are most indicative there.

I never said I thought his pbpa was great. At best, he did seem to get locked into confirmation bias, which is what pbpa can tend to do. You start to see everything as scummy, instead of just giving an overall explanation of why you have a scumread. However, he did have a few good points scattered here and there, and I got an overall town sense from the way he went about things. I'm not going to go in right now and quote things, because that block of text is a pain, and I don't feel up to wading in that pool atm.

I want to like that he mentioned to RC in 3390 that he had a pbpa "somewhere" but I think I'd be happier with that coming from him if he'd taken the time to actually link it

Wouldn't you think Quantum-scum would be more eager to link the case? I would think he'd be salivating at the prospect of lynching Titus if he was scum, and would push extra hard. Instead, he's like, "Titus is scum. I made a case, but it's deep in my ISO, and I don't feel particularly motivated to find it right now.". Especially since RC is showing interest in Titus as well, you'd think Quantum as scum would try to ingratiate himself there, but he's not.

[Bulbazak]

i just took a look at my hand and you know I'm fairly sure I'm not invisible, but you guys are pretty convincing.

feel free to contribute individually
VOTE: nosferatu
i really don't like this

What's wrong with it? You essentially say the same thing a few posts down.

[Bulbazak]

Okay, here is the lynch pool as it stands now:
Mathblade
Titus
Ginngie
Creature
QuantumRadius
Nosferatu

Everyone tell me one person who they think should be removed from that list, and why. If possible continue this format so that all the thoughts are in the same place when we finish.

Rautherdir: I think Ginngie should be removed from that list because I don't see mafia bringing up the protection thing.

Remove the protect claims for now. I think we can reasonably PoE from the rest. That should leave {Math, Quantum, Nos}.

I removed BTD6 because I am assuming they were roleblocked, which prevents them from being the bus driver.

That's assuming you believe the roleblock claim to be accurate. If you think he's scum, then it's probably just a lie.

[Bulbazak]

Lynch pool

BTD6,
Math,
Quantum,
Nos

As we get closer to deadline we can keep narrowing this thing down. For now any comments/questions about the lynch pool?

yes, i have a comment.

this lynchpool is awful

It's the only one that makes sense given last night's actions.

The amount of deflection to the point where you literally skirt out of the game.

FTR posts like this are completely unacceptable. When someone replaces out because of you, you should probably fuck off.

I'm not sure whether this is Dram defending a scum buddy or Dram WKing RC. Definitely Dram-scum doing something.

[Bulbazak]

Given your more recent reactions, I think we're starting to narrow your team down.

[Bulbazak]

Titus, mathblade, aronis, vedith.

Seriously how is btd not conftown by now? We're just missing bulba

Are these scumreads of yours? Y/N

[Bulbazak]

Titus and Aronis are, the other two are not.

So are you calling me scum now?

[Bulbazak]

I have a feeling I know what the scum team are trying to do. Watch for sudden reversals on me from certain key players.

[Bulbazak]

Titus and Aronis are, the other two are not.

So are you calling me scum now?

No?
Christ, I just spent like 2 pages discussing you being bad town with Ginngie/A2, how are you even coming to that conclusion.

Titus, mathblade, aronis, vedith.

Seriously how is btd not conftown by now?

We're just missing bulba

[Bulbazak]

If there's a wagon that you say is bad because 50% is composed of scum and then you say it's just missing X, the implication is that X is scum as well.

[Bulbazak]

@Gin: Pushing Dramonic on it, because I could see the seeds being planted. Math is doing something similar as well. I'm shining a great big freaking light on this.

[Bulbazak]

@Gin: Pushing Dramonic on it, because I could see the seeds being planted. Math is doing something similar as well. I'm shining a great big freaking light on this.

Because I am scum with Dramonic clearly. /sarcasm

This distancing thing you're doing isn't going to work.

4. Titus - I believe your claim. Thing is, your claim doesn't mean you are town...

Technically speaking, a bus driver would normally prevent a kill, even if it was a strongman doing the kill. So you could actually claim correctly here and yet still be responsible for the kill.

Titus claimed protective on Snarky, so if she claimed correctly and is scum, why would she protect Snarky? You seem to be jumping through hoops just to make busdriver work.

the formatting of the way my role resolved n1 makes me think busdrivers are unlikely unless this game is bastard, which, granted i dont know.

Guess who just claimed scum.

Unvote
Vote TheWayItEnds

Vote confirmed scum. We can just have the PRs further narrow down the list tonight.

[Bulbazak]

You claimed to use an ability when it was impossible to use an ability. That's pretty cut and dry.

[Bulbazak]

Maybe you should have talked to your buddies more before actually saying anything.

[Bulbazak]

It's cute that you're trying to cover up the slip by just saying "verifiable" and hoping no one calls you on your crap.

[Bulbazak]

And then you'll go, "Whoops! Darn! I'm in the dark so my ability to verify doesn't work. I hope you don't hold that against me.".

[Bulbazak]

You are literally claiming impossibilites to cover up your impossible to be town claim and hoping no one looks hard enough.

[Bulbazak]

it is pretty cute that you think i would claim to have used an ability right after i entered the game that i shouldnt have been able to use without said ability usage being in my pm though.

Could be a boon...But I doubt that would show up like you claim. And I just realized what I thought happened still couldn't have happened.

...

And then you'll go, "Whoops! Darn! I'm in the dark so my ability to verify doesn't work. I hope you don't hold that against me.".

yeah cause this fits the definition of verifiable.

I doubt Mastin would reveal whatever you want her to reveal if you're in the dark.

Okay, riddle me this, who is the likely scum in the light PT?

[Bulbazak]

This still sounds way fishy.

[Bulbazak]

Titus and Ginngie have claimed protectives whose protection was bypassed. Creature claims to have information that points to a strongman. That leaves {Mathblade, QuantumRadius, BTD6, and Nosferatu} via PoE. I don't know how you're doing catch up, but start with that.

[Bulbazak]

Also, BTD6 claims to have been blocked when he went to track Math.

[Bulbazak]

BTD6 could have blocked me or maybe he didn't.

Are you saying that you were blocked now?

Math, you never answered this.

For the millionth time I don't know.

You don't know whether you were blocked or not?

Math, you seemed to dodge this earlier. Putting it back up so you can't avoid it.