Touhou UPick 3 - [Game Over]

[Kilgamayan]

I think the major problem with gut reads is that they do little to nothing in the way of convincing other people. By and large, no townie is an island; what good are correct reads if no one listens to you?

[zMuffinMan]

I mean sure. On the whole I think if you were to run this setup more you'd have like a 7/3 town/scum win split.

I absolutely agree that the partial day claims were bad. but the night choices were mostly fine in the situation we were in. I'd also like to point out that using the immunity spellcard would have been led to my lynch anyway considering Red the nightless castle. It would have been deduced that either muffin failed or I failed.

Probably, but there would have still been a bit more wiggle room than there was. It wouldn't have been set in stone. Also, the odds of me hitting the one scum that wasn't either investigation-immune or able to completely fuck my shit up if I targeted them wasn't great.

I mean there was easily potential for about a bazillion town bodies by D2/D3 if abilities were used slightly differently / hinted at slightly differently.

See, for example, the last Touhou Upick (though I guess you could argue the scum team was incredibly lucky in that game).

I tend to think FakeGod setups in general are more town-sided than scum-sided, but I think scum win most FakeGod games so *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

Also the red thing wouldn't have mattered so much if you all played spellcards (which I think was optimal play even if you didn't know about the red thing - I quite literally would have blown my entire load of spell cards N1 as scum in this game, it was by far the most important night in the game even without retrospect, that is just how these Touhou Upicks work).

[FakeGod]

zMM is correct

optimal play as scum is to blow every defensive card in n1

every cop card goes off n1, and any town player who's holding the investigative card n1 is gambler, esp given that Touhou Upicks only flip character + alignment

[ActionDan]

Ok that's not at all taking in any consideration of the game state though.

Our defensive cards were 1-roleblock, 1-investigative ascetic, and 1-spellcard PGO. Katsuki wasn't going to get targetted that night when the vulnerable scum were Sakura and Ooba. And frankly, it was unlikely I was either.

Sure there was "potential" for things to work in the scum's favor, but that's nothing compared to the sheer amount of useful town power.

Like even if zMM didn't hit any scum he gets a result that's better than a pure cop shot. It is better btw.

[zMuffinMan]

Well, if you're looking at the balance of the setup overall, I'm just saying that even if it did happen to be town-sided, there were still a *lot* of options for scum to play things differently and use spellcards in a way that would have meant things played out entirely differently. Like, no offense, but if scum had played a stronger game to the point where one of them didn't get vig killed N1 and had perhaps used spell cards differently or come up with different gambits around their spellcards, the game could have (and likely would have) played out entirely differently.

If we're talking about just how this game played out, then yeah, scum may have driven themselves into a corner. I don't think that's a fault of the setup, though.

(I also think you're really underestimating how hard it is for town to figure out exactly what is going on in a setup like this.)

[zMuffinMan]

(Also, both you and Sakura had ascetic spellcards so it was actually 2x)

(And Ooba was naturally investigation-immune)

[FakeGod]

Katsuki can also pick to become Godfather I think

are Godfathers explictly Normal?

[ActionDan]

Sakura had ascetic spellcards

she did not

[zMuffinMan]

according to the mod PT she did

yes, only to spellcards, but that's like 95% of all the dangerous abilities in the game

[Ankamius]

I think the major problem with gut reads is that they do little to nothing in the way of convincing other people. By and large, no townie is an island; what good are correct reads if no one listens to you?

Kinda.

My playstyle is basically push gut reads and try to get reactions to build upon those reads, then really push when I feel like I've found scum. I never try to be a major town bandwagon starter unless my reads are strong enough to warrant it. Generally when I end up having that role when I'm not trying to, it means I'm way off track and scum are trying to take full advantage of that (also, if you ever are bored and want something hilarious to watch, look at LoL mafia in the subforum for this one and look at how I took a lot of control in the game and did a lot to destroy the town itself. It's the perfect example of this). I rarely ever lay out all my cards on the table and only lay them out when I believe it's time to.

Funnily enough, I believe that is why I rarely get mislynched.

[thdgkdms]

I can't believe I let myself get talked into joining another mafia game.
I hate you all and I'm going to disappear forever. Probably. Until next time.
Also, GG.

[Ankamius]

Kilga we should play again. I think we could really do some work in other games.

[FakeGod]

did anyone not read the sample role PMs prior to game start?

now now be honest please raise your hand in silent shame

[The_Relentless]

sorry about signing up only to replace out like immediately, for some reason my brain goes "well yeah you've enjoyed zero of the mafiascum games you've played but this one's totally gonna be different". it's OK though because I'm quitting mafia forever.

my vig crumbs were 100% real. i was going to use one of my shots to shoot drezi or somebody (actually Ankamius if I thought I could get away with it) and the other as Nightkill 2. i was planning to use my spellcard-PGO card N1 and claim it immediately, saying that i was so loud about my vig because i wanted to draw a roleblock card but didn't think any town roles would be on me.

also if i got ran up i was planning to go "NO WAIT GUYS I CAN CONFIRM I'M TOWN" then later "whoops the mod just told me Innocent Child is passive and not active so my role can't use it" to see if that would fake people out.

my picks:
- Yukari
- Patchouli
- Futo
- Raiko

yall suck for vigging futo btw

[thdgkdms]

btw i know that the spellcard is spelled "judgement"

that i can understand

but

is there a particular reason MS has a red squiggly underline when i try to spell the word correctly?

judgment

what the fuck?

WHY, RED SQUIGGLY LINE? I'M RIGHT HERE. YOU'RE THE ONE THAT'S FUCKING WRONG. GTFO

American spelling.

[thdgkdms]

Aluminum.

[FakeGod]

I hope you guys had fun, dear friends of Shadoweh.

[The_Relentless]

re: Dan in graveyard: I changed my posting style for my initial two big catch-up posts but my actual way of talking was the same as always basically. I expected everybody to figure it out like instantly even though SB was the only one I actually told but I guess none of you are as good as I am at player guesses!!!!

fun fact thdgkdms messaged me like two days in about how he was surprised nobody knew who I was and I had to be like "don't get me modkilled dude"

[The_Relentless]

also seeing people go "yeah kats sucks but the slot could be town due to relentless" over and over was ego++

[thdgkdms]

Well I messaged you after you replaced out and avoided anything really game related so there's that.

[The_Relentless]

oh oh actually I really wanted to shoot GiF but the lilies made it too hard to play dumb to about the mason crumbs and get away with it :X Oh well

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura had ascetic spellcards

she did not

I had an spellcard that made me immune to spellcards that directly targeted me and would cause the spellcard users to know the card failed.

[Sky_Paladin]

Thanks for running the game, FakeGod

I was really happy with my character and role. I was disappointed that I essentially wasted every card.

I think Muffin was the voice of reason that held the game together.

I am glad to see that Katsuki was scum, so a lot of my frustration towards the player has diminished - he was painted in to a corner and literally all he could do was rage. All is forgiven.

Pie, no harm done, all is well.

[ActionDan]

Sakura had ascetic spellcards

she did not

I had an spellcard that made me immune to spellcards that directly targeted me and would cause the spellcard users to know the card failed.

Well then. Guess I forgot about it completely.