Brexit

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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:16 pm

Post by Om of the Nom »

Reading all the racial abuse and discrimination as a result of Brexit winning is fucking terrifying and I hope it does not devolve into extreme levels of violence :(
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:16 pm

Post by Drench »



british left u ok
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:35 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 124, Killthestory wrote:European Union seems to be causing lots of controversy lately, indirectly, at least.

You have the February 2014 Revolution in Ukraine that resulted from President Viktor Yanukovych which ended up with him being impeached and fleeing the country, and the 'Maidan' protesters instituting a new form of government. Now, you have the Brexit resulting in David Cameron resigning while Britain leaves the European Union.

It's rather sad that trying to unify a continent is only ending up causing lots of problems and controversy.
Do you really think thats all its done?
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:36 pm

Post by Killthestory »

In post 127, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 124, Killthestory wrote:European Union seems to be causing lots of controversy lately, indirectly, at least.

You have the February 2014 Revolution in Ukraine that resulted from President Viktor Yanukovych which ended up with him being impeached and fleeing the country, and the 'Maidan' protesters instituting a new form of government. Now, you have the Brexit resulting in David Cameron resigning while Britain leaves the European Union.

It's rather sad that trying to unify a continent is only ending up causing lots of problems and controversy.
Do you really think thats all its done?
Of course it has it's great accomplishments alongside it's disappointments, but I only name those two disappointments off of memory since I'm currently researching the Ukrainian conflict for fun. Naming off accomplishments is also counter productive to my point.
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:37 pm

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Heidi Alexander gone
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:41 pm

Post by Drench »

open the floodgates lads
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:43 pm

Post by Not_Mafia »

Burnham vs BoJo 2017 lgi
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:53 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 128, Killthestory wrote:
In post 127, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 124, Killthestory wrote:European Union seems to be causing lots of controversy lately, indirectly, at least.

You have the February 2014 Revolution in Ukraine that resulted from President Viktor Yanukovych which ended up with him being impeached and fleeing the country, and the 'Maidan' protesters instituting a new form of government. Now, you have the Brexit resulting in David Cameron resigning while Britain leaves the European Union.

It's rather sad that trying to unify a continent is only ending up causing lots of problems and controversy.
Do you really think thats all its done?
Of course it has it's great accomplishments alongside it's disappointments, but I only name those two disappointments off of memory since I'm currently researching the Ukrainian conflict for fun. Naming off accomplishments is also counter productive to my point.
but would be pretty sweet for intellectual honesty.
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:58 pm

Post by Killthestory »

In post 132, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 128, Killthestory wrote:
In post 127, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 124, Killthestory wrote:European Union seems to be causing lots of controversy lately, indirectly, at least.

You have the February 2014 Revolution in Ukraine that resulted from President Viktor Yanukovych which ended up with him being impeached and fleeing the country, and the 'Maidan' protesters instituting a new form of government. Now, you have the Brexit resulting in David Cameron resigning while Britain leaves the European Union.

It's rather sad that trying to unify a continent is only ending up causing lots of problems and controversy.
Do you really think thats all its done?
Of course it has it's great accomplishments alongside it's disappointments, but I only name those two disappointments off of memory since I'm currently researching the Ukrainian conflict for fun. Naming off accomplishments is also counter productive to my point.
but would be pretty sweet for intellectual honesty.
No need to when it's not part of my point and wouldn't really properly get across what I'm trying to convey.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:00 pm

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"Sources close to Jeremy Corbyn say if there is a leadership challenge he would definitely stand again. They are confident that he is automatically on the ballot paper in the event of a leadership contest. Different Labour sources disagree about whether that is the case."

Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:44 pm

Post by springlullaby »

In post 123, Thestatusquo wrote:I have asked you to make a textual argument, or show me an expert making a textual argument why the prince is satire. You are either unwilling or unable to do that. Pointing out that fact is not noise.
I have provide an expert making a textual argument why the prince is satire, but you are either incompetent or unwilling to comprehend it.

As I don't think you are actually incompetent, I must shine my brightest scumhunter's armor and prove to the people of the thread that I am not scum, even through there is no juridiction in the Beloved Country of GD that holds the burden of proof over me, and whereas I have already provided more textual argument than you have ever done in your, I admit it, successfully infuriating, minstrel's career.

In the short excerpt I have quoted, JayJay has made the following argument to sustain his view that The Prince is satire (a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn):

"... It is what Samuel vividly represented to the Israelite; it is what Machiavel has shown with clarity."


--> an analogical inference is drawn between The Prince who make his People miserable, and the prophecy of the false King's deeds (Saul) in [1 Samuel 8]. I will add that in Machiavelli's time the stories and parables of the Bible were not only deeply familiar to an intellectual elite, but to the larger population as well, making this a very likely inference. Indeed, due to the pervasiveness of the Christian religion, and the Bible being the primary source of literary references, it is much more likely that a middle-class merchant of the 16th c. would have recognized the figure of Saul in the description of The Prince than for a middle-class worker of our time to do so.

"The very choice of his detestable hero is manifestation enough of his secret intention..."

-->
historical context and evidence is provided. This one may be obscure because my excerpt is truncated. Further down the note, you will find this commentary: "The court of Rome sternly prohibited his book [The Prince]—of course it did! because that’s the court that the book most clearly portrays." Here Jayjay argues that The Prince subversive nature is evidenced by the Pope's ban. This argument is convincing when you examine the larger historical context and the author's life: 1. In the book, there is a plethora of instances where The Prince's actions can be directly paralleled to Cesare Borgia's historical life. The house of Borgia held papal power over Rome, and were ennemies of M's florentine homeland, therefore the hypothesis that the Court of Rome ban The Prince because it recognized in it the satirical portrait of Cesare is a compelling one. 2) The Prince was written after after M.'s imprisonment by the Medici after their return to power in Florence, to whom he was still subject. The motif of M's imprisonment was his betrayal to the Medici when the later were expelled from Florence and the Florentine republic was restored. Hence any republican "intention" M's had could only remain "secret".

"Discourse on Titus Livy, and his History of Florence, demonstrates that this profound politician has up until now only had superficial or corrupt readers"
--> Jayjay sustains his argument by referring to other writings from M in which his pro-republican sentiments are quite clear.

These are three textual arguments from an expert that I have provided.

Now, even though I did cross path with politics during the Italian Renaissance in the meander of my humble studies and have some familiarity with the subject, I don't claim to be a specialist and, ofc, you don't have to trust my judgement. However, I have to say that, well beyong Jayjay's take, the litterature on the subject is actually flores which make TSQ an academic snob who don't actually know anything but like to lord it over us, honest labourers of the working class who dedicate time and money to educate ourselves.

I shall also stress that I'm not blind to the fact that this entire discussion is deflection from TSQ's orignal sin which was a claim stating it was unheard of to use Machiavelli in the context of an argument about democracy. A clearly false statement that reveal his evil ways.


TL;DR TSQ is lame, vote springlullaby. I will stick it to the man with long, soul-crushing discourses and give you more candies than you currently have.
Last edited by springlullaby on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:10 pm

Post by Tere »

In post 98, Majiffy wrote:
In post 46, Tere wrote:Shellshocked and miserable and not even really able to English about this at the moment.

The BBC coverage is OK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news
*hug*

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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:12 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

lol at literally all of that.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:13 pm

Post by springlullaby »

Mockery toward us earnest and honest people. That's all you'll ever get from the like of TSQ.
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:24 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

How many variations of the same tired insult would you like to say? You're the one who has been an asshole here, not me.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:42 pm

Post by springlullaby »

Ok, sorry TSQ. But I thought you were arguing for the heck of it and, you know, people being wrong on the internet.
I'm sincerely sorry if I have caused you to feel bad in anyway. It's sunday, and sunny in France. Happy week-end. ;)
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:20 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

Ok, sorry TSQ. But I thought you were arguing for the heck of it and
I almost literally never do this.........
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:14 am

Post by Tere »

Petition is now at 3.1 million signatures. And this is absolutely priceless.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/w ... 2d331e1b39
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:25 am

Post by mykonian »

In post 124, Killthestory wrote:You have the February 2014 Revolution in Ukraine that resulted from President Viktor Yanukovych which ended up with him being impeached and fleeing the country, and the 'Maidan' protesters instituting a new form of government.
Well this is missing some key information. Also it's hardly related. I'd say you are trolling, but then you are American. You are hardly looking at the EU creating controversy here, you look at a country that's between the influence of the EU and Russia. You could technically say that the growing EU is upsetting the status quo, but then again the controversy in the UK is that they disliked the status quo.

IDK. Hard to relate these.
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:27 am

Post by Majiffy »

In post 108, Thestatusquo wrote:Show me a serious scholarly article article arguing the Prince is satire
In post 109, Thestatusquo wrote:Because it would go entirely against a little class I took titled 'the Prince and modern international relations'
Dude it's not even an uncommon understanding.

Look at the majority of his work. Then look at the Prince. Then back to the rest of his work.

You're just being intellectually dishonest here.
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:35 am

Post by AniX »

In post 105, Thestatusquo wrote:Oh yes. As someone who majored in political science and economics in college I probably have no clue what I'm talking about.
I need to start keeping a running tally of "I majored in political science"s from you.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:00 am

Post by Majiffy »

You'll run out of space and have to turn the page sideways. Then it'll start to resemble grid paper.
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:02 am

Post by Drench »

In post 109, Thestatusquo wrote:Because it would go entirely against a little class I took titled 'the Prince and modern international relations'
probably the best post you've ever made

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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:42 am

Post by Shanba »

In post 125, Om of the Nom wrote:Reading all the racial abuse and discrimination as a result of Brexit winning is fucking terrifying and I hope it does not devolve into extreme levels of violence :(
Here's some context.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -and-wales

The problem with this vote to leave the EU is two-fold. Firstly, the economic damage the UK will suffer as a result. What degree of economic damage is unkown, but it will be some amount - some companies will move abroad to dodge uncertainty about the UK's future - in particular, in the financial sector that London depends so heavily upon, there could well be a mass exodus (most likely to Frankfurt) as the UK's particular advantage for foreign (US) firms was that it provided easy access to the entirety of Europe's markets. Now that is in doubt, and the financial sector hates doubt. That will hurt London.

THere are other possible economic consequences. Until new trade deals are organised, anyone who exports to those countries will be at a disadvantage. I strongly suspect Article 50 will not be invoked until the exact details of Brexit are agreed - in particular, Britain's relationship with the EU - but the EU itself has hundreds of trade deals with countries around the world that the UK will lose the benefit of. Pure bureaucratic workload suggests at least some of these will not be renegotiated very quickly:

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2 ... 149622.png

UK is a net importer, but British exports will necessarily be hurt by this. On the other hand, UK exports are also getting the benefit of a cheaper pound, so maybe some of that levels out. Cheaper pound, however, means more expensive imports (the flipside) - directly harming consumers.

The UK also risks having it's credit rating downgraded, increasing the cost of borrowing. If this happens, since the UK has substantial national debt (despite years of austerity) there will be a direct and immediate hit to the UK's finances. See http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu- ... m-36626201.

That said, taking stock of the actual economic fallout of this decision is something that's probably going to be easier in retrospect. There are far too many variables to take into account to actually know how things will turn out. I would expect it to be somewhere from bad to disastrous, however. The real issue is the genie that cannot be put back into the bottle - the rise of the racist right - linked to the kinds of incidents you see in the article above. There was never any question that UKIP was tapping into these resentments, and the referendum has basically legitimised them. It's now OK to be racist in a way it wasn't before. This is a trend that is occurring all around the world, in every community - the establishment consensus on these issues is slowly being eroded. I feel we're entering a new era of fear and scapegoating, where being insufficiently "native" in any given country is becoming more and more dangerous.

Personally, I think I will be taking on Belgian citizenship now.
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:22 am

Post by springlullaby »

In post 141, Thestatusquo wrote:
Ok, sorry TSQ. But I thought you were arguing for the heck of it and
I almost literally never do this.........
Lol, I thought you were making a point about 'the argument of reason never wins' or something, actually. Or a meta reading of the Prince.

Hence my mock populist speech.

I can never tell. Anyway, it's all good.
Last edited by springlullaby on Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:46 am, edited 4 times in total.
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