Favorite Fictional Villain Tournament 2014 (The Joker wins!)

[SleepyKrew]

i like bellatrix because also civil rights symbolism

?

[xRECKONERx]

I remember thinking he was quite good at first but now I can't really remember anything about him other than that he was a bit quiet.

Hmm. You don't remember:
- The genocide of the Dharma Initiative
- The murder of his own father after years of emotional and physical abuse
- Kidnapping Alex Rousseau as a baby rather than murdering her and her mother in cold blood
- The "Henry Gale" arc where he murdered and buried a guy to assume his identity and infiltrate the Losties camp
- Shooting and leaving Locke for dead after he discovers that Jacob will speak to Locke but not him
- Letting Martin Keamy (the mercenary) murder his own daughter in cold blood just so he wouldn't have to turn himself in
- Manipulating an emotionally distraught Sayid into being his personal assassin and murdering every person with a connection to Widmore
- Manipulating Locke into revealing information then murdering him in a hotel room and staging it to look like a suicide
- Stabbing and killing Jacob in the statue after Jacob refuses to tell Ben why he isn't special/chosen
- Murdering Widmore before Widmore can make a deal to spare his daughter from the Monster

I had forgotten *some* of that, but remembering some of it even moreso seals the deal as to why Ben Linus is just the best.

[ChannelDelibird]

Yeah what I'm saying is that all of those things got blurred together into whatever the convoluted back two-thirds of Lost was supposed to be and consequently haven't stood the test of time in my head. I remember just about enough to have voted for Ben at least once so far but he doesn't do much for me against anyone who actually left a fully formed impression.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't think you can call Season 3 (or 4, really) convoluted. I'll give you 5 + 6 with time travel and afterlifey shenanigans were convoluted. (But this isn't the place to debate that so whatevs.)

[Faraday]

Sherlock's Moriarty kinda sucks BTW.

Agreed, but across all instances of the character, I like him better than Cersei, who I think is not the best villain of that series.

Eh that's reasonable - I'm just surprised people like him in sherlock that much.

[Faraday]

And yeah Ben is awesome but like bowser beat ozymandias so.

[LlamaFluff]

Like, if I actively disliked her or was completely neutral, then I'd just leave it blank

Exactly. Vote villains you sorta like over ones you don't know. Made the exact same vote as you for same reason.

Chances are I will never vote that character again, but it beats unknown.

[Chevre]

i love that point in these tournaments where reck gets all super defensive towards his favorites

[xRECKONERx]

I mean if you want to vote for shittily developed Harry Potter characters that are written so simply to appeal to literal children then go ahead!

[DeathNote]

Ben turns good in the end right? Booooo

[xRECKONERx]

Nope

[DeathNote]

I mean if you want to vote for shittily developed Harry Potter characters that are written so simply to appeal to literal children then go ahead!

While this is true for most harry potter villains, I consider Umbridge to be one of my most frightful people ever created. I hate her with a total passion and to get that much emotion out of me really puts her high on my villain list.

But I don't know if that was a blanket statement for HP villains or for Bel and Vold.

[DeathNote]

Nope

Well he like... becomes Hurley's number 2.

[xRECKONERx]

Also, I may be too harsh on Umbridge. I found her to be an interesting villain. Bellatrix, Voldemort, et al are all pretty shitty, generic SUPEREVIL(c) villains though.

[xRECKONERx]

Nope

Well he like... becomes Hurley's number 2.

Yeah. It's not because he turns good. It's because his motivations become evident that they were all "for the Island", and that's neither good nor evil. The Island is, in fact, a pretty evil/dangerous entity.

[xRECKONERx]

i love that point in these tournaments where reck gets all super defensive towards his favorites

I'll deal with Nurse Ratched going down. Not enough people have seen the movie.

I'll deal with Jeremy Jamm going down. Not enough people watch Parks & Rec.

I'll deal with Captain Vidal going down (even though he's arguably the most menacing villain in this tournament). He was against ZOMG BSG SCIFI NERD YA ROCK ON!11!11!1

I'll deal with Barry Dylan going down. He lost to Scar, I get it.

I'll deal with Captain Hammer's awful inclusion in the tournament alongside Billy/Dr. Horrible taking down Revolver Ocelot.

AND, kind of, I'll deal with Sander Cohen not even making the tournament despite being the best video game villain in the entire tournament.

But... Lost is a personal show for many reasons. You can knock it for all you want... incongruent philsophies, not making sense, an unrewarding payoff, and I'll probably at least sympathize with you. But Ben Linus, as portrayed by Michael Emerson, is one of the most brilliantly written and best performed villains in television history. He's the type of villain that you hate, and yet you find yourself feeling sorry for at your core, and it makes you question yourself. He's the type of villain that you love to hate to see commit these awful crimes... yet, when he does, you see a bit of humanity underneath. He's the type of villain that is only ever solely out for personal gain, but you put yourself in his shoes so well, that you find yourself rooting for him. He's the type of villain that makes you question a little bit of yourself, because he's not

all

that awful, right? He shows his humanity. But at the end of the day, he did these awful things that make it hard to really admit you root for him.

Ben Linus came around pre-Game of Thrones and pre-Breaking Bad, where rooting for evil characters wasn't commonplace in television. He was a villain, through and through, always working contrary to the protagonists' desires and plots. But... the writing, the way Emerson portrayed him, his place in the timeline of the show... it made it so difficult to hate him. That's why he's brilliant. I would argue that Emerson put on the best villainous performance in television in the past 20 years, with Bryan Cranston as Walter White, James Gandolfini as Tony Soprano, and maybe Giancarlo Esponito as Gus Fring in contention for the title. He just owned the role, and despite the complaints against Lost's inconsistent writing, the

one part

that is arguably perfect is the role of Ben Linus.

[Klazam]

Can i change my vote?

Linus instead of lestrange.

[Klazam]

Context: i forgot how awesome linus was until reck reminded me.

[xRECKONERx]

Just go back and edit it.

[LlamaFluff]

But... Lost is a personal show for many reasons. You can knock it for all you want... incongruent philsophies, not making sense, an unrewarding payoff, and I'll probably at least sympathize with you. But Ben Linus, as portrayed by Michael Emerson, is one of the most brilliantly written and best performed villains in television history. He's the type of villain that you hate, and yet you find yourself feeling sorry for at your core, and it makes you question yourself. He's the type of villain that you love to hate to see commit these awful crimes... yet, when he does, you see a bit of humanity underneath. He's the type of villain that is only ever solely out for personal gain, but you put yourself in his shoes so well, that you find yourself rooting for him. He's the type of villain that makes you question a little bit of yourself, because he's not

all

that awful, right? He shows his humanity. But at the end of the day, he did these awful things that make it hard to really admit you root for him.

Ben Linus came around pre-Game of Thrones and pre-Breaking Bad, where rooting for evil characters wasn't commonplace in television. He was a villain, through and through, always working contrary to the protagonists' desires and plots. But... the writing, the way Emerson portrayed him, his place in the timeline of the show... it made it so difficult to hate him. That's why he's brilliant. I would argue that Emerson put on the best villainous performance in television in the past 20 years, with Bryan Cranston as Walter White, James Gandolfini as Tony Soprano, and maybe Giancarlo Esponito as Gus Fring in contention for the title. He just owned the role, and despite the complaints against Lost's inconsistent writing, the

one part

that is arguably perfect is the role of Ben Linus.

That's you though.

I think the entire show is just disjointed, poorly written and no character was even remotely able to save it from even being able to called "okay". I will gladly vote a mediocre villain from a mediocre source material over a below average character from a horrible source.

[xRECKONERx]

"That's you though."? Really? You think that my point

wasn't

assuming "this is my opinion"? That's your rebuttle? Jesus fucking Christ.

[xRECKONERx]

Like that whole second sentence. Jesus Christ.

I'd deconstruct it as a part of a "how not to form an argument" post but I don't think it really matters if all you're going to take away from a thoughtful, content-filled post is "Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Here are some adjectives."

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

As someone who made an impassioned plea for Morrowind in a previous contest, while I might not care for Lost, I'll happily vote for a villain that inspires that kind over the reaction over the fairly one-dimensional Lestrange.

GlaDOS
Dolores Umbridge
Ben Linus
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-
-
-
-

[Empire]

GlaDOS
Bowser
Benjamin "Ben" Linus
Agent Smith
Scar
Professor James Moriarty / Jim Moriarty
Darth Vader / Anakin Skywalker
The Joker

[Empire]

And yeah, I'm 100% with Reck. Even though I felt Lost jumped the shark hardcore after Season 3, pretty much the only reason I continued to watch was Ben Linus. Probably the most fascinating character I've seen on television in a long time.