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Post Post #10175  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:40 am

In post 10172, karnos wrote:
In post 10168, Shaziro wrote:Requiring some manner of proof of residence is not what is being referred to by "ID laws", "ID laws" refers in this context to laws which limit the types of proof of residence allowed below previously accepted levels.


So are making the racist argument that only minorities have trouble obtaining proof of residence?

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Post Post #10176  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:42 am

In post 10174, karnos wrote:If you think that race is irrelevant and people of all races are capable of obtaining proper ID, the argument falls apart.

wrong
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Post Post #10177  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:44 am

In post 10171, Fluminator wrote:
In post 10160, Psyche wrote:
In post 10157, Fluminator wrote:Wait, are people saying voter ID laws are racist in this thread?

yeah they're designed to make it disproportionately harder for minorities to vote

Oh boy

the supreme court (or was it federal courts) forced nc to change its laws because of this
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Post Post #10178  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:55 am

It's all pretty hilarious though, when you take a step back.

First the MSM claimed that the election simply can't be rigged, it's impossible. Then Trump won, and the story changed- the entire MSM and democratic party screaming that Trump has "rigged" the election. And now the complaint is that voter ID is too strict and needs to be stepped back, making voter fraud easier.

Funny how the story changes week by week.

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Post Post #10179  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:56 am

In post 10176, Psyche wrote:
In post 10174, karnos wrote:If you think that race is irrelevant and people of all races are capable of obtaining proper ID, the argument falls apart.

wrong


So everyone has a valid ID, how exactly is the voter ID law hurting minorities (or anyone else)?

The argument only works if you are assuming some group (minorities, duh) are incapable of obtaining IDs.

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Post Post #10180  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:58 am

In post 10177, Psyche wrote:the supreme court (or was it federal courts) forced nc to change its laws because of this

The Supreme Court is bought and paid for by the Clinton campaign.
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Post Post #10181  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:02 am

In post 10178, karnos wrote:the entire MSM and democratic party screaming that Trump has "rigged" the election.

Citation needed
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Post Post #10182  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:21 am

In post 10179, karnos wrote:
In post 10176, Psyche wrote:
In post 10174, karnos wrote:If you think that race is irrelevant and people of all races are capable of obtaining proper ID, the argument falls apart.

wrong


So everyone has a valid ID, how exactly is the voter ID law hurting minorities (or anyone else)?

The argument only works if you are assuming some group (minorities, duh) are incapable of obtaining IDs.


It works if you have rudimentary critical thinking skills.

1. Black people are more likely to be impoverished than white people
2. Black people are more likely to live in densely-populated urban areas (due to a myriad of historical and racist factors)
3. Impoverished people are less likely to own an automobile than non-impoverished people, due to a combination of inability to purchase (due to impoverishment and/or racist/predatory loaning practices) and lack of need due to living in dense urban areas
4. Impoverished people are less likely to have completed their education
5. Impoverished people are more likely to have received a sub-standard education
6. Impoverished people are more likely to work a low-paying hourly job(s)

THEREFORE

7. Black people are less likely to have or need a Driver's License, which is the most common form of photo identification (coincidentally, proposals to institute a mandatory national ID card program are frequently criticized by those with anti-government views as "Orwellian"). This is because they do not need cars because they live in urban areas and can walk or bike to work, and/or because they cannot afford a vehicle because of their low income. Additionally, applying for, testing for, and receiving a Driver's requires two things - a rudimentary education, and a considerable time investment. Black people are less likely to have either of these things - the former due to poorly-funded inner city school systems (Starve the Beast!) and self-defeating education legislation (No Child Left Behind); the latter due to being forced to work considerable hours at a low-paying job or jobs in order to make ends meet.

SO

1. Black people are less likely to have a Driver's License, the most common form of photo identification
2. "Voter ID" laws require possession of a form of photo identification

THEREFORE

3. Black people are more likely to be targeted and affected by "Voter ID" laws

SO

1. Black people are more likely to be affected by "Voter ID" laws
2. "Voter ID" laws are more likely to be instituted in traditionally conservative states in the American South
3. "Voter ID" laws are more likely to be instituted by state-level Republican lawmakers

THEREFORE

4. Black people are more likely to be targeted by Republican lawmakers in traditionally conservative states in the American South by "Voter ID" laws

It is literally just a new form of Jim Crow. Jim Crow involved provisions written into state constitutions intended to exclude black people from elections under the guise of "qualifying the electorate." Such measures included a literacy test and a poll tax. Because these measures blanket-targeted impoverished Americans in these southern states, poor whites were excluded from these restrictions by means of the "grandfather clause" - if your grandfather was qualified and eligible to vote, then you are by extension qualified and eligible to vote. Coincidentally, these grandfathers lived during the antebellum South, and were almost exclusively white, since the black Southerners were, well, slaves.

Voter suppression along racial lines isn't going to involve a law that literally says "Black people can't vote lol." They have to make up an excuse to indirectly exclude them from the conversation, so that gullible "useful idiots" or actively malicious operatives can point and say "We're not suppressing black people. We're just qualifying the electorate!" and wash their hands of the whole thing. Use your brain.
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Post Post #10183  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:35 am

I said: "The argument only works if you are assuming some group (minorities, duh) are incapable of obtaining IDs."

You proceeded to show me how you think certain blacks are incapable of obtaining IDs.

Thank you for proving my point, but I still think it's a racist argument to say that black people can't obtain an ID.

And FYI, every state has an ID card option. You don't need to pass a driving test to get an ID card.

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Post Post #10184  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:41 am

In post 10182, Wraith wrote:1. Black people are less likely to have a Driver's License, the most common form of photo identification

Yabut you can get an ID that isn't a driver's license. Noting that a driver's license is the most common form of photo ID is just a bullshit smokescreen.

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Post Post #10185  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:48 am

In post 10179, karnos wrote:
The argument only works if you are assuming some group (minorities, duh) are incapable of obtaining IDs.

still wrong
and a dishonest representation of what you said
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Post Post #10186  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:49 am

In post 10183, karnos wrote:I said: "The argument only works if you are assuming some group (minorities, duh) are incapable of obtaining IDs."

You proceeded to show me how you think certain blacks are incapable of obtaining IDs.

Thank you for proving my point, but I still think it's a racist argument to say that black people can't obtain an ID.

And FYI, every state has an ID card option. You don't need to pass a driving test to get an ID card.

This is because you moved the goalposts. Before you were claiming obama believes minorities are incompetent/lazy.
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Post Post #10187  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:50 am

In post 10184, Persivul wrote:
In post 10182, Wraith wrote:1. Black people are less likely to have a Driver's License, the most common form of photo identification

Yabut you can get an ID that isn't a driver's license. Noting that a driver's license is the most common form of photo ID is just a bullshit smokescreen.

They looked for the forms of ID that black people disproportionately used. And then made them ineligible.
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Post Post #10188  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:56 am

In post 10186, Psyche wrote:
In post 10183, karnos wrote:I said: "The argument only works if you are assuming some group (minorities, duh) are incapable of obtaining IDs."

You proceeded to show me how you think certain blacks are incapable of obtaining IDs.

Thank you for proving my point, but I still think it's a racist argument to say that black people can't obtain an ID.

And FYI, every state has an ID card option. You don't need to pass a driving test to get an ID card.

This is because you moved the goalposts. Before you were claiming obama believes minorities are incompetent/lazy.


There is no legal restriction on minorities obtaining ID cards. Incompetence or laziness are really the only two possibilities, no?

I am excluding the possibility that Obama would suggest the blatantly illegal idea that illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote, as much as I disagree with him I don't think his corruption goes that far.

Do you have another explanation as to why a minority individual would be unable to obtain an ID?

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Post Post #10189  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:58 am

In post 10188, karnos wrote:Do you have another explanation as to why a minority individual would be unable to obtain an ID?

1. Black people are more likely to be impoverished than white people
2. Black people are more likely to live in densely-populated urban areas (due to a myriad of historical and racist factors)
3. Impoverished people are less likely to own an automobile than non-impoverished people, due to a combination of inability to purchase (due to impoverishment and/or racist/predatory loaning practices) and lack of need due to living in dense urban areas
4. Impoverished people are less likely to have completed their education
5. Impoverished people are more likely to have received a sub-standard education
6. Impoverished people are more likely to work a low-paying hourly job(s)

THEREFORE

7. Black people are less likely to have or need a Driver's License, which is the most common form of photo identification (coincidentally, proposals to institute a mandatory national ID card program are frequently criticized by those with anti-government views as "Orwellian"). This is because they do not need cars because they live in urban areas and can walk or bike to work, and/or because they cannot afford a vehicle because of their low income. Additionally, applying for, testing for, and receiving a Driver's requires two things - a rudimentary education, and a considerable time investment. Black people are less likely to have either of these things - the former due to poorly-funded inner city school systems (Starve the Beast!) and self-defeating education legislation (No Child Left Behind); the latter due to being forced to work considerable hours at a low-paying job or jobs in order to make ends meet.

SO

1. Black people are less likely to have a Driver's License, the most common form of photo identification
2. "Voter ID" laws require possession of a form of photo identification

THEREFORE

3. Black people are more likely to be targeted and affected by "Voter ID" laws

SO

1. Black people are more likely to be affected by "Voter ID" laws
2. "Voter ID" laws are more likely to be instituted in traditionally conservative states in the American South
3. "Voter ID" laws are more likely to be instituted by state-level Republican lawmakers

THEREFORE

4. Black people are more likely to be targeted by Republican lawmakers in traditionally conservative states in the American South by "Voter ID" laws

It is literally just a new form of Jim Crow. Jim Crow involved provisions written into state constitutions intended to exclude black people from elections under the guise of "qualifying the electorate." Such measures included a literacy test and a poll tax. Because these measures blanket-targeted impoverished Americans in these southern states, poor whites were excluded from these restrictions by means of the "grandfather clause" - if your grandfather was qualified and eligible to vote, then you are by extension qualified and eligible to vote. Coincidentally, these grandfathers lived during the antebellum South, and were almost exclusively white, since the black Southerners were, well, slaves.

Voter suppression along racial lines isn't going to involve a law that literally says "Black people can't vote lol." They have to make up an excuse to indirectly exclude them from the conversation, so that gullible "useful idiots" or actively malicious operatives can point and say "We're not suppressing black people. We're just qualifying the electorate!" and wash their hands of the whole thing. Use your brain.
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Post Post #10190  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:59 am

In post 10187, Psyche wrote:
In post 10184, Persivul wrote:
In post 10182, Wraith wrote:1. Black people are less likely to have a Driver's License, the most common form of photo identification

Yabut you can get an ID that isn't a driver's license. Noting that a driver's license is the most common form of photo ID is just a bullshit smokescreen.

They looked for the forms of ID that black people disproportionately used. And then made them ineligible.


Those racist democrats looked for the types of guns that black people disproportionately used to murder each other, and tried to restrict ownership of those guns.
/s


Don't you see how absurd the line of reasoning is? A few weeks ago liberals were screaming and crying about voter fraud and election rigging. Several states wasted millions on recounts. But now the idea of requiring valid legal identification to cast a vote is racist? Really?

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Post Post #10191  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:59 am

Is anybody in this thread under the impression that in-person voter fraud is a serious enough problem to enact restrictive voter ID laws?
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Post Post #10192  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:00 pm

everyone wrote:dammit davsto
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Post Post #10193  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:03 pm

Fun anecdote:

In Virginia I had to show my ID to vote. Hillary won Virgina, not Trump.

QED, voter ID laws favor democrats!
Last edited by karnos on Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Post #10194  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:04 pm

In post 10191, theplague42 wrote:Is anybody in this thread under the impression that in-person voter fraud is a serious enough problem to enact restrictive voter ID laws?


Why is it restrictive when it comes to voting, but acceptable practice when it comes to opening bank accounts, buying firearms, buying alcohol or cigarettes, etc?

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Post Post #10195  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:05 pm

In post 10189, Davsto wrote:
In post 10188, karnos wrote:Do you have another explanation as to why a minority individual would be unable to obtain an ID?

1. Black people are more likely to be impoverished than white people
2. Black people are more likely to live in densely-populated urban areas (due to a myriad of historical and racist factors)
3. Impoverished people are less likely to own an automobile than non-impoverished people, due to a combination of inability to purchase (due to impoverishment and/or racist/predatory loaning practices) and lack of need due to living in dense urban areas
4. Impoverished people are less likely to have completed their education
5. Impoverished people are more likely to have received a sub-standard education
6. Impoverished people are more likely to work a low-paying hourly job(s)


Do you have any idea how racist you are?

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Post Post #10196  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:06 pm

You guys need to read about strict scrutiny and its relationship with suspect classifications. If you want, I can explain why a law can be considered unconstitutional because of intent, implementation, or enforcement even if it doesn't actually mention race or another classification.
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Post Post #10197  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:06 pm

In post 10188, karnos wrote:
In post 10186, Psyche wrote:
In post 10183, karnos wrote:I said: "The argument only works if you are assuming some group (minorities, duh) are incapable of obtaining IDs."

You proceeded to show me how you think certain blacks are incapable of obtaining IDs.

Thank you for proving my point, but I still think it's a racist argument to say that black people can't obtain an ID.

And FYI, every state has an ID card option. You don't need to pass a driving test to get an ID card.

This is because you moved the goalposts. Before you were claiming obama believes minorities are incompetent/lazy.


There is no legal restriction on minorities obtaining ID cards. Incompetence or laziness are really the only two possibilities, no?

I am excluding the possibility that Obama would suggest the blatantly illegal idea that illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote, as much as I disagree with him I don't think his corruption goes that far.

Do you have another explanation as to why a minority individual would be unable to obtain an ID?


lol

You really are like a vending machine of classic Republican rhetoric. How many quarters do I have left?
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Post Post #10198  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:06 pm

In post 10195, karnos wrote:
In post 10189, Davsto wrote:
In post 10188, karnos wrote:Do you have another explanation as to why a minority individual would be unable to obtain an ID?

1. Black people are more likely to be impoverished than white people
2. Black people are more likely to live in densely-populated urban areas (due to a myriad of historical and racist factors)
3. Impoverished people are less likely to own an automobile than non-impoverished people, due to a combination of inability to purchase (due to impoverishment and/or racist/predatory loaning practices) and lack of need due to living in dense urban areas
4. Impoverished people are less likely to have completed their education
5. Impoverished people are more likely to have received a sub-standard education
6. Impoverished people are more likely to work a low-paying hourly job(s)


Do you have any idea how racist you are?

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Post Post #10199  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:08 pm

Meh, it's more he doesn't have any actual arguments to fall back upon so he's just filling the thread with nonsense. It's the patented Trump Troll strategy.
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