Brexit
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Majiffy Go with the Flow
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Except Australia, which is currently freezing instead.Only playing in games at personal moderator and/or 50%+ playerlist request.
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Svenskt Stål (23:38) majiffy, worst mod on ms? we talk to a surviving victim of his game- Claus
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You can remove those parenthesis, things are so shitty in Japan that even the emperor wants out now.In post 299, Equinox wrote:
On the bright side, if we do get a President Trump, all of us can watch the (Western) world burn together.In post 291, Majiffy wrote:I am refraining from gloating as much as possible until after November.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVmAG0RXmo- mykonian
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On the other hand, it's good to stay in touch with the people when it comes to real change, where politics might be entrenched.In post 298, Sudo_Nym wrote:I was listening to Dan Carlin, and he made the interesting point that things like this were the reason why the American system doesn't have referendums. You get all sorts of weird things when you make decisions based on a poll of a bunch of non-experts who don't understand the full implications of the decisions they're being asked to make.
Say, imaginary world where Clinton becomes president and really wants to abolish the right to carry guns. This is not going to work out, as you know.
However, suppose she'd bypass the house and ask the people what they want, there's a possibility that a conclusive answer might actually get her somewhere. Also not likely, but it's a reason why a referendum might be a healthy option, making sure politics and the real world don't diverge too much.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.- Drench
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referendums really should be about constitutional change and that's itIn post 298, Sudo_Nym wrote:I was listening to Dan Carlin, and he made the interesting point that things like this were the reason why the American system doesn't have referendums. You get all sorts of weird things when you make decisions based on a poll of a bunch of non-experts who don't understand the full implications of the decisions they're being asked to make.
of course the argument is still alive as to whether brexit falls under that (i think it does, personally)join your union- Davsto
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Davsto He/HimFarce of Habit
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I mean Brexit wasn't something that a referendumhadto be made of
Cameron just decided that (as part of his policy if the Tories won) he'd hold a referendum on it (to reduce people voting for UKIP as their policy was just to leave the EU, as Cameron was worried of a potential pseudo-Brexit vote as the votes split between UKIP and Tory in the general election depending on which people wanted to exit the EU).
Parliament could have easily just made a decision independently
(Disclaimer: not an expert so something is probably wrong here, but this is along the right lines)- Not_Mafia
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Nope! Too much to askIn post 297, Not_Mafia wrote:But hey maybe we'll get a health secretary that doesn't want to dismantle the NHSAlso, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?- mykonian
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Not really though. Parliament wanted to stay. They still do. The people didn't.In post 304, Davsto wrote:I mean Brexit wasn't something that a referendumhadto be made of
Cameron just decided that (as part of his policy if the Tories won) he'd hold a referendum on it (to reduce people voting for UKIP as their policy was just to leave the EU, as Cameron was worried of a potential pseudo-Brexit vote as the votes split between UKIP and Tory in the general election depending on which people wanted to exit the EU).
Parliament could have easily just made a decision independently
(Disclaimer: not an expert so something is probably wrong here, but this is along the right lines)
Now you could argue who's right and who's more qualified to make that decision, but point remains that parliament is supposed to represent the people. It's not a good state to be in where the two don't agree. Regardless of how you think about the result, the concept of a referendum worked here, I think.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.- chamber
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People don't know what they want. Or rather, they know the end results that they want but not the way to get them. Neither side of the British populace is well versed in international trade agreements. They wanted more jobs and perceived foreigners taking them as the cause, but from what I've read, it likely wasn't a net drain on jobs. And that's before considering other economic benefits of being in the EU.Taking a break from the site.- zoraster
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In post 314, Randomnamechange wrote:Labour were irrelevant anyway. They were basically became a shit version of the Tory Party.
Unless you're a Tory, that's either an ignorant statement or oneentirelydesigned to justify a politically unsuccessful policy shift..- zoraster
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Outside of theIn post 315, Randomnamechange wrote:Also, that ignores the fact that you don't vote for a Prime Minister, you vote for a local representative.technicalpoint that yes you vote for a local representative, if you vote this way in practice you are a fool. A backbencher's power is almost entirely wrapped up in their ability to combine to create a Government..- Davsto
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No you vote for a local representative you agree with because they will vote in the way most applicable to you and try to push things you agree with into the limelight
A backbencher doesn't just sit on their arse and do nothing except be part of a party, they actuallydo shit. If people voted purely to get a majority for the party then no-one would have voted any SNP in because there aren't enough SNP candidates in different constituencies to get a majority.- Davsto
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Nope, it's totally accurate. People are pissed that Jeremy Corbyn is an actually left-wing leader of a supposedly left-wing party, rather than just a centre leader. By distinguishing himself, he's dared to make it controversial.In post 316, zoraster wrote:In post 314, Randomnamechange wrote:Labour were irrelevant anyway. They were basically became a shit version of the Tory Party.
Unless you're a Tory, that's either an ignorant statement or oneentirelydesigned to justify a politically unsuccessful policy shift.
Great, he couldn't even win 18-24. That is, 18-24 of all voters of all parties. How is this relevant? Who gives a damn what someone who is destined to vote Tory or UKIP anyway thinks?
Really, Conservative, UKIP and Lib Dem voters think May would make a better PM than Corbyn? I could have told you that myself, it's plain damn logic.
He divides voters. So what? FDR was constantly criticised by the media and big company owners yet he won by a landslide. Good politicians are inevitably going to have haters, and ones such as Corbyn which have more "controversial" policies are going to have even more. That doesn't mean he should step down. Now, I think he should step down because him being leader is resulting in complaints in his party which is putting Labour in absolute shambles during an already politically turbulent time, but not because some voters don't like him.- zoraster
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They didn't vote for SNP because of their local MP though. They did it because what you can accomplish with a group of people can send a message. Best case, SNP can form a coalition government and force a referendum or other devolution and potentially form part of the Government.
Regardless, we're talking about Labour, a party that (probably?) wants to actually be in charge. Effect change by being in Government. If Labour wants to be a protest party or simply a party that represents a fraction of the country without a real shot of winning, then the path that's being traveled upon is fine. But if I'm a Labour supporter, I'd rather be able to counteract the Tories.
As for "doing shit," sure. I'm not saying MPs do nothing -- they certainly provide constituency services. But I think it's silly to believe in the salience for most voters of these things. Simply put: if the country does not want your leader to be PM, having a collection of the very best local MPs isn't going to be particularly helpful in elevating your leader to PM..- zoraster
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I mean, if your point is "I don't give a shit about winning elections" then okay. Fine. My point is that he's not going to be elected, so although I'd want to believe most peopleIn post 319, Davsto wrote:
Nope, it's totally accurate. People are pissed that Jeremy Corbyn is an actually left-wing leader of a supposedly left-wing party, rather than just a centre leader. By distinguishing himself, he's dared to make it controversial.In post 316, zoraster wrote:In post 314, Randomnamechange wrote:Labour were irrelevant anyway. They were basically became a shit version of the Tory Party.
Unless you're a Tory, that's either an ignorant statement or oneentirelydesigned to justify a politically unsuccessful policy shift.
Great, he couldn't even win 18-24. That is, 18-24 of all voters of all parties. How is this relevant? Who gives a damn what someone who is destined to vote Tory or UKIP anyway thinks?
Really, Conservative, UKIP and Lib Dem voters think May would make a better PM than Corbyn? I could have told you that myself, it's plain damn logic.
He divides voters. So what? FDR was constantly criticised by the media and big company owners yet he won by a landslide. Good politicians are inevitably going to have haters, and ones such as Corbyn which have more "controversial" policies are going to have even more. That doesn't mean he should step down. Now, I think he should step down because him being leader is resulting in complaints in his party which is putting Labour in absolute shambles during an already politically turbulent time, but not because some voters don't like him.careabout winning and the Tories not being in power, if you don't then we don't have a quibble on this point..- Davsto
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I mean... did you even bloody read my post? That post wasn't even close to the point you're saying I'm trying to make.In post 321, zoraster wrote:
I mean, if your point is "I don't give a shit about winning elections" then okay. Fine. My point is that he's not going to be elected, so although I'd want to believe most peopleIn post 319, Davsto wrote:
Nope, it's totally accurate. People are pissed that Jeremy Corbyn is an actually left-wing leader of a supposedly left-wing party, rather than just a centre leader. By distinguishing himself, he's dared to make it controversial.In post 316, zoraster wrote:In post 314, Randomnamechange wrote:Labour were irrelevant anyway. They were basically became a shit version of the Tory Party.
Unless you're a Tory, that's either an ignorant statement or oneentirelydesigned to justify a politically unsuccessful policy shift.
Great, he couldn't even win 18-24. That is, 18-24 of all voters of all parties. How is this relevant? Who gives a damn what someone who is destined to vote Tory or UKIP anyway thinks?
Really, Conservative, UKIP and Lib Dem voters think May would make a better PM than Corbyn? I could have told you that myself, it's plain damn logic.
He divides voters. So what? FDR was constantly criticised by the media and big company owners yet he won by a landslide. Good politicians are inevitably going to have haters, and ones such as Corbyn which have more "controversial" policies are going to have even more. That doesn't mean he should step down. Now, I think he should step down because him being leader is resulting in complaints in his party which is putting Labour in absolute shambles during an already politically turbulent time, but not because some voters don't like him.careabout winning and the Tories not being in power, if you don't then we don't have a quibble on this point.Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
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