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Espeonage · Post Post #338 (isolation #0) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:37 pm

Paralyzer
Jailor / Guard
Redirector
JOAT

Espeonage · Post Post #485 (isolation #1) » Sun May 15, 2011 6:41 pm

Most people will agree that lying in and of itself is wrong, however, in some cases lying can be the morally correct course of action. Through examining consequences of some classes of lie I will show that through lying overall utility can be increased in some situations, and as such it is not correct to say that all lies are inherently moral wrongs. By examining classes of lies and the consequences of telling such lies this will be shown. In addition examples will be given for such cases where telling a white lie can be justified. Using this conclusion I will provide a judgement on the lie told by the protagonist in the short story "The Wall" and eventually conclude that the lie told is unable to be correctly morally judged as either right or wrong.

Sissela Bok (1978b, p.58) defines a white lie as "a falsehood not meant to injure anyone, and of little moral import." This definition, while not vast does cover numerous classes of lie. these come under the subheadings of greetings, excuses, flattery, placebos, paternal lies and lies to avoid harm. Of these only placebos, paternal lies and lies to avoid harm will be discussed in detail. The others mentioned, namely excuses and flattery, can be considered subclasses of paternal lies. Greetings on the other hand are not meant to deceive and are therefore not actual lies. (1978c, p.58-61)

Placebos may seem like a serious moral wrong, however they can be justified if one looks at the end result of using them. Take the scenario of a toddler with the common cold. The toddlers parents take their child to a medical practitioner to get antibiotics. The doctor, knowing that giving the toddler antibiotics could cause it to become worse or have a fatal recation, decideds that a placebo is the best course of action. The toddler eventually becomes healthy on its own and was never endangered by having to take antibiotics. In this case it becomes clear that through the giving of a placebo overall utility was increased as the toddler escaped a potentially harmful situation. The same can be shown for paternal lies. (Bok 1978b, p.49; 1978c, p.64)

Paternal lies are lies said to protect someone from the truth. A common example would be if you accidentally ripped your friend's childhood teddy bear. They of course love the bear and have many fond memories attached to it. Instead of telling your friend that their bear was ripped you go out and buy an identical one to replace the ripped one without them knowing. In this scenario utility is again greater than that if you had told your friend. Had the truth been told the friend may have become angry, leading to a tear in the friendship. A result that wouldn't have been good for either side. With the exampe given lying has increased the overall utility as neither side has had to go through any bad consequences. More scenarios can be given.(Bok 1978b, p.49; 1978c, p.59-60)

Such as the well known murderer at the door thought experiment. This is an example of a scenario invloving lying to avoid harm. This is also given as an arguement for white lies and challenges the notion of all lies being moral wrongs. The scenario depicts a murderer turning up to the door of the people housing his potential victim. The murderer asks if the person he looking for is in the house. It is also assumed that you have exhausted all other means of deception or deflection of the question. The thought experiment asks, what is the morally correct course of action. Most people are likely to say that you should lie, isn't saving your friend more important than telling a murderer the truth. Rights based ethics followers would argue that no, you shouldn't lie. It is impossible to correctly know the circumstances. They would argue that for all you know the person you are housing could have fled and by lying to the murderer you are not respecting his autonomy.(Bok 1978c, p.60-61)

There are two solutions to this reply. Firstly, as this is a thought experiment we can change the scenario. Assume that the person you are housing is in a cupboard in plain sight of the murderer. Thus the option of escape is taken out of the equation. The only arguement that rights based ethics followers have is that you are not respecting the murderer's autonomy. While this arguement does not need answering as the dramatic difference in utility should be what the decision to lie is based on, there is still a counter arguement. We know that should you tell the truth, the murderer will kill the person you are housing. We also know that murder is a severe moral wrong as through the act of killing you are not respecting the victims right to life. So therefore the murderer is already not respecting his chosen victim's autonomy. So where does that leave the thought experiment. Should the person lie to the murderer they are stopping a greater moral wrong from happening. The only way this is false is if somehow telling a lie is worse than murder. (Bok 1978a, p.38) As they are both examples of disrespecting basic rights and one is not only disrespecting autonomy but disrespecting the right to life as well the absolute worst case scenario is that they are equally bad actions. In which case the utilitarian arguement provides a tiebreak so to speak. I therefore argue that the only way in which to come to a decision on the matter is to take the utilitarian approach as it is the only one that sheds any light on the thought experiment. The overall conclusion being that lying will always be the correct moral action in the given scenario. This conclusion can be applied to many other similar scenarios as well.

In the short story "The Wall" the protagonist is asked to give up the location of one of the leaders of the movement he was a part of. This is very similar to the murderer at the door scenario. If he gives the correct location they will kill the leader, if he lies it is unknown what will happen. In the story the protagonist lies and gives a false location, however it turns out the information he had was incorrect and the man he was trying to protect was killed. The end utility of the situation is bad. The protagonist must deal with what has happened as a result of his actions and the man he was covering for has died. Even with these bad consequences my conclusion above is still valid. Through acting to the best of his knowledge he made the right decision. The utility equation applied on what he knew came out awith lying as the best option. Therefore he acted in what was perceieved to be the best way. The eventual consequences cloud this though. The fact that it ended badly shows that the utility equation was wrong. The protagonist however had no way of knowing that. As such it is impossible to come to any conclusion on wether it was the morally correct action to take. Utilitarianism was unable to be applied correctly and the rights based approach gave no judgement either as seen earlier. (Sartre 1948, p.15-17)

I have shown that while lying is not in and of itself a moral wrong that doesn't mean that all white lies are the correct actions to make. It can be proven, as I have done, that it can be shown that a person should always lie in the murderer at the door thought experiement and that this can be applied to other scenarios asking similar questions of the responder. The white lies explored can be split into numerous subclasses of lie. Paternal lies, which tie to the murderer at the door example and placebos that need to be judged on a case by case basis. All of these points tie together to show how, under the right circumstances, white lies can be justified and through using this conclusion showed that sometimes, such as in "The Wall" it is impossible to come to any conclusion on wether or not lying is the correct action to make.

Espeonage · Post Post #507 (isolation #2) » Wed May 18, 2011 8:13 pm

Australia - 625 HP
Austria - 500 HP
Bangladesh - 500 HP
Bhutan - 500 HP
Brazil - 450 HP
Canadia - 825 HP
China - 500 HP
Croatia - 500 HP
Democratic Republic of Congo - 500 HP
Egypt - 450 HP
Ethiopia - 500 HP
France - 150 HP --
Germany - 500 HP
Hungary - 500 HP
India - 500 HP
Indonesia - 500 HP
Iran - 500 HP
Ireland - 750 HP
Italy - 500 HP
Japan - 500 HP
Mexico - 500 HP
Monaco - 500 HP
Mongolia - 500 HP
Nepal - 500 HP
Netherlands - 500 HP
New Zealand - 500 HP
Nigeria - 500 HP
North Korea - 500 HP
Pakistan - 500 HP
Philippines - 600 HP ++
Poland - 500 HP
Portugal - 550 HP
Romania - 500 HP
Russia - 450 HP
Serbia - 500 HP
South Korea - 500 HP
Spain - 500 HP
Sri Lanka - 500 HP
Thailand - 500 HP
Turkey - 500 HP
UK - 500 HP
United States - 550 HP
Vietnam - 500 HP

Espeonage · Post Post #515 (isolation #3) » Thu May 19, 2011 10:27 pm

GOT FEAR?? OR ARE JUST CHOKING ON YOUR COOKIES.

Espeonage · Post Post #524 (isolation #4) » Fri May 20, 2011 9:49 pm

Triquetra

Espeonage · Post Post #527 (isolation #5) » Sat May 21, 2011 11:29 am

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a ... 1exnb.html

Espeonage · Post Post #555 (isolation #6) » Sun May 22, 2011 9:00 pm

Australia - 1000 HP
Austria - 500 HP
Bangladesh - 500 HP
Bhutan - 500 HP
Brazil - 250 HP
Canadia - 1000 HP +
China - 500 HP
Croatia - 500 HP
Democratic Republic of Congo - 500 HP
Egypt - 450 HP
Ethiopia - 500 HP
Germany - 500 HP
Hungary - 500 HP
India - 500 HP
Indonesia - 500 HP
Iran - 500 HP
Ireland - 750 HP
Italy - 525 HP +
Japan - 525 HP
Mexico - 450 HP
Monaco - 500 HP
Mongolia - 500 HP
Nepal - 500 HP
Netherlands - 500 HP
New Zealand - 450 HP
Nigeria - 500 HP
North Korea - 500 HP
Norway - 500 HP
Pakistan - 500 HP
Philippines - 600 HP
Poland - 500 HP
Portugal - 750 HP
Romania - 500 HP
Russia - 475 HP
Serbia - 500 HP
South Korea - 500 HP
Spain - 450 HP
Sri Lanka - 500 HP
Thailand - 500 HP
Turkey - 500 HP
UK - 525 HP
United States - 575 HP
Vietnam - 500 HP

Espeonage · Post Post #619 (isolation #7) » Tue May 31, 2011 1:19 pm

Regaining his footing, Daffyd looked around just in time to see the last of the people disappear running through a hole in the wall of one of the buildings. Figuring it would be safer to stay with them until it was confirmed there were no more monsters around he made his way down the stairs. The first thing he noticed was the smell. Taking the last few steps gingerly eventually showed the source. The beast was slain with gore everywhere.

His eyes were dragged almost instantly away from the carcass. A truly magnificent sight filled his eyes. The walls of this room were mesmerising, Daffyd stood in wonder at the interlacing circles adorning the walls and felt his consciousness fall away. His body compelled him to move forward towards the mystical pool of water the others had gathered around.

Seeing an eye below the pool surrounded in the same symbols as the wall, the only thought that filled him was a deep

need

to touch it. Reaching down with no rational control over his own motor functions an ethereal transformation took place. Daffyd's being left his body. Hovering in front of him, he felt like he could see his soul. As it danced around the circles surrounding the eye his mind cleared. The feeling was one of amazing significance, as if he had been born for this very event to occur.

His soul floated back to him and his hand shot up to the handmade talisman around his head. The beacon of his existence followed his hand and seemed to disappear into the carved necklace. He let his hand drop. Feeling the carving move on his neck he looked down, it appeared to be shuddering as if filled with the power to move on it's own, even point at things. Daffyd looked up wide eyed at the others.

“What's happening?” Was all he could muster saying before falling against the wall in exhaustion from the weight of what had just happened.

Espeonage · Post Post #625 (isolation #8) » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:44 am

gandalf5166 wrote:
You don't happen to be a fan of Matisyahu, do you?

was that part of your ctrl v or was that a question at me?

Espeonage · Post Post #645 (isolation #9) » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:02 am

74.50.98.226:5080

Espeonage · Post Post #655 (isolation #10) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:56 am

Vote Espeonage

Espeonage · Post Post #663 (isolation #11) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:20 am

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=16121

Espeonage · Post Post #669 (isolation #12) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:57 pm

Chakula cha mchana. Mimi kama wazo hilo.

Espeonage · Post Post #675 (isolation #13) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:36 pm

http://images.wikia.com/nickelodeonrugr ... /Spike.gif

Espeonage · Post Post #680 (isolation #14) » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:14 pm

http://www.pokecommunity.com/forumdispl ... d92c&f=184

Espeonage · Post Post #688 (isolation #15) » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:52 pm

Espeonage · Post Post #693 (isolation #16) » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:19 pm

Ooh this could be messy
But you don't seem to mind
Ooh don't go telling everybody
And overlook this supposed crime

We'll fast forward to a few years later
And no one knows except the both of us
And I have honored your request for silence
And you've washed your hands clean of this