THE RESISTANCE II - Game Over!

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/in!

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Do I have to call you by TS?

Well surely it's easier to type? And certainly easier than I found typing 'Xalxe' at first. hehe

(but yes. ty)

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/out
/in to replace

I don't like taking slots that people want, and I feel like I'd just make things worse for everyone.

Aw. I was looking forwards to playing with you

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Well CDB is as town as toast from the last few posts

I've never played mafia(?) or anything like that with JDGA so can't comment on his alignment or any tells thus far. Increasing tempo and wanting to skate past a needless RQS is always a good sign though.

w/r/t reactions to missions failing I personally wouldn't know how to classify a town or scum reaction to that. Methinks I'll have a look at the prior games and see how they worked there for the alignments. It's kinda like playing a strange version of mastermind but hopefully the communicative aspect shines a bit more light on things before we have to decide on much important.

@Jason: if you're basing your scum feel on JDGA because of the point 'C' of his then I'm not sure I entirely agree with you there as pressure on any player is always a good way to instigate discussion and get the reactions flowing. If I didn't know JDGA I'd find it strange and suspicious that he had to mention random.org (and how he wasn't using it) in point 'A', but having the pleasure of knowing JDGA somewhat well, it is often the case that he does like to use dice and random number generators to decide on various things. As for point 'B' that's either (from what I gather) coming from cautious town or smooth Scolex(?) so I can't infer much from it.
Overall I'd personally lean town, but basing a decision on one post would be rather myopic.

Whether he should be on the team or not is another matter, and you raise some good points there

- TS

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The pressure i get but going "i won't use Random.org" then "X (who hasn't posted) is scum, discuss." is scummy as all fucking shit.

I think he meant in the long-run he wouldn't use random.org. For his first post an RQS pressure prod is as good as anything for tempo

b) Because he's the first playername that popped into my head and I know him well enough that he won't flip out at me over it.

Oh thanks. I'll have to repay the favour next time

Well... which would you prefer Jason:

A) Me not picking JDGA
B) Me picking you

Well... which would you prefer Jason:

A) Me not picking JDGA
B) Me picking you

Preferably both but if it's one or the other then A)

Surely if you're town (and thus you know you're town) then obvious thing is 'B' because then you have a confirmed townie to yourself on the mission? Am I perhaps missing something?

Ignore that. After reading Bowser's #65 it makes sense to me now

Sivvy's suggestion was too baffling initially for me (it's been a long day...) to get a read from it. I'm hesitant to accept anything that relies on WIFOM though since we never can really predict how it'll play out and it isn't the "holy grail of mafia" as a lot of fallacial arguments seem to imply.

saying "I want the first mission to pass. Thus I am not accepting any mission that doesn't have 3 people I'm sure are town on it" is a bit of an odd thing to say though. Almost as if it's trying a little too hard to be full of town sentiment. That's the mild feel I get at any rate

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Sivvy's suggestion was too baffling initially for me (it's been a long day...) to get a read from it. I'm hesitant to accept anything that relies on WIFOM though since we never can really predict how it'll play out and it isn't the "holy grail of mafia" as a lot of fallacial arguments seem to imply.

saying "I want the first mission to pass. Thus I am not accepting any mission that doesn't have 3 people I'm sure are town on it" is a bit of an odd thing to say though. Almost as if it's trying a little too hard to be full of town sentiment. That's the mild feel I get at any rate

I don't quite understand your first paragraph.

Regarding your second, if that seemed to be a little too try-hard to be full of town sentiment, then what are your feelings considering his other idea of just throwing multiple scum into the pool purposely?

I must admit that I don't know the meta at all, but at 1AM the idea to me of sending 2 or 3 suspected Scolex mafioso on the first mission was something that I wasn't understanding at all. I think Bowser's explanation in #65 made me see the workings behind it, but even now I personally wouldn't know how to interpret any info from a mission packed with suspected Scolex and I'd also rather not waste the easiest mission as a Scolex wagon. Sivvy's post #77's last line kinda tidies it up though and it rests alright with me now.

For the scum pool I had no idea if that would be a scum or town suggestion at the time. I'd rather leave that to those more familiar with the meta for now, but it certainly does seem bold for a mafioso to suggest, so I'd perhaps edge town on that?

I have a strong townread on CDB so if everyone else does too then only 2 more are needed (or 1 more if the protocol is that the leader always sends themselves? I don't really know)...

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Wow. I just ran some numbers, and we really need to win this first mission, because for the next ones the difficulty goes up dramatically. Once we have a team of confirmed Town though it becomes much easier.

fwiw is it actually possible to have a confirmed townie?

Jal, jason looked kinda like he was playing mafia, which is scummier b/c stuff. Idk. This made sense earlier.

???

I'm not letting DeathNote be included just because they were randomly selected to pick the first three.

Well if Deathnote knows that he's town (which every player will claim regardless) then surely he's going to nominate himself anyhow?

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If CDB and Jal go I would be more than happy =]

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I feel a bit sorry for JDGA in that so far in this game he's had to almost exclusively (and unfairly?) defend himself and I haven't got a good read on him because of that. I'm more confident in a Jaltown, but I can still see town motivation behind JDGA's posts from what there is left.

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I feel a bit sorry for JDGA in that so far in this game he's had to almost exclusively (and unfairly?) defend himself and I haven't got a good read on him because of that. I'm more confident in a Jaltown, but I can still see town motivation behind JDGA's posts from what there is left.

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For me Jal>JDGA>Siv right now

fwiw what actually happens in this game if we get a pretty unanimous scumread? I know we can't lynch, but is it really the case that we just ignore them for the whole game? :S

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Anyway, I think everyone should say who they would pick were they team leader right now. I'd take JDGA and someone else. Idk who.

The scenario I'd be most confident with is myself, CDB and Jal on the mission, but assuming Deathnote is nominating himself (and if we vote a majority or not that's another issue) then any of those 3 or 4 I'd accept, perhaps being happy with JDGA also.

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Voting no b/c deathnote.

Good. I'd have been annoyed if you weren't after what you said before about always not letting 1st leader's choices get approved and such

I've had a brief read up and will be voting no, but I'll try and compound some points here tonight

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Apologies for late response. Blame Alex Guttenplan. I have PM'd to reject anyways

This game is hard for town, and it's easier to BS stuff as scum than make it up properly as town IMO.

You have mentioned your view that town has a disadvantage numerous times this game. It feels really 'tin' and that you might be trying to emphasise your 'towniness' a bit much here, something which I have pointed out before with regard to yourself.

Also your logic of "It's hard for scum to make stuff up, therefore anyone suspecting bowser is scum" is both irrelevant and a baseless white-knight. Right now you are the most suspect person to me, although I'd also put Deathnote in that category for being so easily swayed by everything and Thurname for being a reticent opportunist (as mentioned below)

Voting no b/c deathnote.

Good. I'd have been annoyed if you weren't after what you said before about always not letting 1st leader's choices get approved and such

I've had a brief read up and will be voting no, but I'll try and compound some points here tonight

Wait what? The grammar in that first sentence is awkward.

No it isn't. Do you have a point here or do you insist on destroying scumhunting momentum for needless interruptions every single page?

---

I find it bizarre that Bowser is getting so worked up over CDB having suspicions of him. CDB listed me in his "scumteam" but I'd rather scumhunt and such than defend myself which is pointless and tempo-destroying.

I find it amusing that Thurname chips in here to accuse bowser despite offering no opinion on him prior to this and only after CDB has taken up the flag. It strikes me as a useful way to hide behind a strong town player whilst trying to get a wagon going.

Why I think CDB is town? In ISO, #1 post is theory which, though helpful, is null. This is continued in #2 so still not much to comment on. In fact #3 is still more discussion of what to do w/r/t leaders and missions and such. #4 is rather nice though as it shows an open town mind, willing to accept the ideas presented by Jason.
From that we get a justified defence of JDGA (It was getting tedious having JDGA being hounded for his jokey-ness imho, even if RVS-equivalent pressure is usually a plus) and a FOS of Jason. Doesn't mind going against Jal on page 4 which I also see as town (does scum need to contradict someone and get on their nerves? I think not).
Then we go into a strange 'boss battle' with Bowser which I haven't read through fully at this stage. Might leave their theory points to those who have more experience with this, but I'll see if there's much I can comment on if possible
The high number of "oh he's town" views on CDB is a bit odd, which I think Jal has touched upon, but I can't fault the plausibility of it at this stage.

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Why am I suspect?

Why am I having to point at my post?

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Um, in attacking me it kinds looks like you're doing exactly what I don't like about pushing bowser - you're attacking the weak player, which is so good for scum. We don't have THAT many mislynches that we can afford to go attacking weak players for no reason other than their weak null play looks like scum.

"Don't attack me I'm weak" is an awful thing to say, worse still if you're saying I'm scummy for um... scumhunting?
If your playstyle is suspect that's up to you to change it, not me to ignore it when all I'm doing is sharing my thoughts with the town.

Futhermore you were nominated for the mission, so I hardly see that was weak. I still haven't had a good reason why Deathnote nominated you actually.

Ew. I guess these are fair enough. But it's a bit ew.

You're not even trying to make logical points of any use are you now? =|

Why aren't you making a big deal of me naming you in my three as well?

Crap, sorry, oversight on my part. My opinuon still stands similarly to your proposal.
Voting yes for the moment.

Why exactly are you voting yes? Of all missions this is the one we should be least willing to pass first time because
1) we have the list info purely because it's the first one
2) The leader has been unreadable at best
3) It's the one we get the best chance of having go right

Furthermore you haven't once stated an opinion on any of the players nominated for this mission so it baffles me as to why you're voting for it to pass. I'm very suspect of how lightly you're taking this

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TS, I don't get how you go from Siv being kinda scummy, as ordering him as your third in order of preference here:

For me Jal>JDGA>Siv right now

Your read on him all game comes across as fake.

Also, pretty sure we're waiting on my vote.

Um, no?

That was only of the 3 who had been suggested for Deathnote to nominate which you can see from the prior posts and discussion

If I included all players he'd be in the bottom 3, not the top 3

if that's your only issue then I hope you realise I'm serious when I say that I do distrust Sivvy

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Um. My logic is along the lines of that it's easier to make the evidence fit the conclusion (scum) than make the conclusion fit the evidence (town) in this, much more so than in mafia. And scum has no reason to lurk. You don't win this as scum by avoiding being called scum, you win by being called town. If someone lurks anyway then why the hell are they scummy?

Anyway wrt weak:
You're criticising me for anti-town plays, and I don't even recognize them as anti-town before you criticise me for them.
My logic isn't even trying to stay consistent.
I'm OMGUSsing all over the place.
I'm pulling the newb card...

Yeah. That's weak play imo.

Actually, TS, is deathnote scum or town?

So basically you're saying weak play = town? And regardless of scum not having a 'reason to lurk' they often try to play a more cautious game by convention of being the 'informed minority' so unless you want to update their mindsets then I'm seeing an impasse in where we stand with regards to that.

w/r/t weak play I'm never going to have a town read on a weakly playing player unless they somehow townslip. There are differences in the scum and town mindset which lead to the most town players (on the whole) being the most pro-town players. And that's by definition of 'pro-town!' Thus If I'm not seeing Pro-town I'm not seeing town//

Deathnote I would lean scum on. Actually that depends. How many scum are there again? 3?

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tbf JDGA, we're getting a lot of one-liner merchants this game (coughThurnameandDeathnote). I hardly see a reason to single Jason out, and his have had the most substance if anything

@Siv: oh 4 scum is it? I wonder why I thought 2 :S
I'll ISO for interactions at some later point when most of my other suspects actually provide content.

I agree, deathnote's nominations were really quite

ಠ_ಠ

even if protocol is to reject 1st proposal

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I dont know where the TS support came from. I dont like his post before this in which he asks "How many people are scum?"

Asking a question (admittedly I could've just checked 1st post i now realise) is suspect now is it amigo?

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Deathnote I would lean scum on. Actually that depends. How many scum are there again? 3?

Well, here is the whole quote. It was a silly question to be asking to begin with. Secondly, it shows a bit on how much you actually consider me scum.

What was your line of thinking? Less scum means I am more likely town?

The whole quote was just poor.

well no, It meant I considered you either my 3rd or 4th strongest scumread, thus meaning that if there were only 3 scum players I couldn't truly consider you scum as there might be 3 I found more suspect. So obviously it was rather important

It's as simple as that. Nothing to do with "oh, there are [3/4] scum. Thus I need to review all of Deathnote's posts as this new light to me suddenly makes him town to" which is completely absurd if that's what you're inferring

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basically it was important how many scum there were because that obviously affected if I saw you as scum or not. I don't see what's so hard to get about that >_>

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Whatever. (If I was a dayvig....)

I'd like Diplomat to expands upon his town/scum reads and JDGA to give us a nice 1st draft of his proposed agents now that he's had time to read up and all. That would be appreciated

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Hi guys
So CDB seems town
TS seems town
If we didn't have time to discuss, that'd be my proposal

Nice to know that certain people calling for me to give a draft aren't reading the thread.

I saw this but you also said

(I just woke up and I have to hurry, sorry for the stream-of-consciousness)

so I imagined you might possibly have different views after re-reading =p

Reasons would be nice though if you have the time, but I don't mind as I can back that proposal for sure

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fwiw I am rejecting any proposal with Siv in it. I'm only passing permutations of Jal/CDB/JDGA/me and

maybe

Jason or Bowser if I'm pushed

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fwiw I am rejecting any proposal with Siv in it. I'm only passing permutations of Jal/CDB/JDGA/me and

maybe

Jason or Bowser if I'm pushed

ANY proposal?

well yes. All it takes is one mafiosi to submit a fail so I'd like my top town reads in this mission

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fwiw I am rejecting any proposal with Siv in it. I'm only passing permutations of Jal/CDB/JDGA/me and

maybe

Jason or Bowser if I'm pushed

Then you'll want to accept Jason's proposal regardless of who's on it, right? 'Cause Siv can basically pass whatever he wants so he's sure to pick himself.

By the time it comes to Jason and Siv being leaders I imagine we'd be at least another 10 pages in and thus who knows how my reads may change

my post #237 that you quoted applies only to this current vote obviously, as I can't say that in 20 or 30 pages time I'm not going to change my views.

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I'm voting yes. Looking at the upcoming leaders this is as good as it's going to get, assuming they nominate themselves. I'm pretty happy with this nomination seeing as I know I'm town and CDB is my top townread. Unless JDGA turns out to be mafiosi (which I don't think he is) I'm reasonably confident that this will work

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If Siv is town his play this game has been both baffling and shallow. I'm glad others are now also seeing that he probably isn't though

I'm voting yes. Looking at the upcoming leaders this is as good as it's going to get, assuming they nominate themselves. I'm pretty happy with this nomination seeing as I know I'm town and CDB is my top townread. Unless JDGA turns out to be mafiosi (which I don't think he is) I'm reasonably confident that this will work

Didn't i say that i'd put it to a vote?

Someone isn't reading

Yeah, let's cherry pick one thing I may have possibly forgotten and claim I'm not reading at all. I can't remember everything, especially if it was yea back in the thread (and that's why I put in the "assuming" clause anyways. Someone else isn't reading )

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If Siv is town his play this game has been both baffling and shallow.

If I'm scum what has my play been?

strangely enough, also baffling and shallow

But that makes more sense from the scum point of view anyways

Scum list:
Siv
Bowser
JDGA
DiplomatDC

Discuss.

Replace JDGA and Bowser with Thurname and Deathnote and you might have the ticket there~

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Scum list:
Siv
Bowser
JDGA
DiplomatDC

Discuss.

Replace JDGA and Bowser with Thurname and Deathnote and you might have the ticket there~

This makes SIV/Deathnote/Thurhame/Diplomat.

Answer for me WHAT THE HELL WAS DEATHNOTE THINKING WHEN HE NOMINATED PEOPLE.

hey, I'm not saying it's set in stone. those are just my thoughts on the play I find most suspect

and maybe that's what scum want you to think anyways. I don't want to try and dissect every piece of possible wifom. *shrug

I'll accept that's a fair enough point though. I'm sure you'll be able to have a laugh about that one in the scum quicktopic

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Okay that was never in the rules the first time I read them...

(or maybe I forgot. It's been a long week )

I'm still voting to accept anyways.
If Siv => scum implies Deathnote => town(?) then so be it. There are always other avenues to finish the jigsaw

night //

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wifom isn't the holy grail of mafia. I think I wrote a poem along that theme in a newbie game I once IC'd but I'm too tired to dredge it up right now

I don't particularly enjoy playing wifom battleships with the scumteam so I won't comment on any more hyopthetical scumteam alterations until at the very least we see where this vote is going.

If by some chance you are town Siv, understand this is nothing personal at all and I am glad that you aren't giving up even when les frites are down. A little less quadruple posting wouldn't go amiss though

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Why has CDB vanished? :<

So I had to adapt to how everyone was playing, and that might have made me seem indecisive.

I'm sorry but what?
Adapt to how people are playing? Why aren't you playing your 'natural town' game if that is what you are?


It's all very well you criticising JDGA's reads. I empathise how hard it must be to make a decision seeing players, such as yourself, have given very few lists of reads. Considering that I found JDGA's nominations as good as he could have made them. I'd appreciate a complete list of reads from yourself before you point the finger. Especially seeing as you're the next leader!

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TS, have you played this game before?

No

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I really don't know what I think of you and it's bugging me.

If you want to talk about it I'd be happy to do so if there's anything in particular.

(I'm actually the world's foremost expert on the subject of myself )

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Ohithar

care to give us an actual post for the first time since page 10?

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Ohithar
-image-
care to give us an actual post for the first time since page 10?

once the results are up
i'm a lazy person, so i haven't done analysis for next vote yet since i already knew what i was voting for this vote.

nopnopenope

Your only post of any actual substance in day 2 is this one. The rest is just meaningless padding. I'd expect mafiosi to try and hold out until a new day before posting, especially if they have a plan in mind

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Can I ask why scum would bother with lurking when they should be trying to get on the mission?

It's not that; it's more that townies have absolutely zilch reason to lurk
The scum mindset is more cautious, hence it is more instinctive to lurk

I doubt you'll find one scumlist here without at least 1 lurker on anyways

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I'm sorry... but regardless of my role, I am lazy at times and dont know what to say during certain situations. I dont think being town just means you automatically want to post more.

being lazy is not inherently anti-town, though it is unhelpful

it would be forgiveable, if like CDB, the posts were full of content. When they are few and 'coasting' posts then it is not a good sign

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Your only post of any actual substance in day 2 is this one. The rest is just meaningless padding. I'd expect mafiosi to try and hold out until a new day before posting, especially if they have a plan in mind

How does that post you linked have any content whatsoever? "Content" means stuff like opinions that can be analyzed, right? I'm waiting for the vote results to form opinions, what's wrong with that?

Well it was the best day 2 post of yours I could find. The best of a fluffy bunch. If by your own admission it's moot, then that brings your grand total of day 2 content to ~0.

I mean you really should have some natural thoughts to give. Information sharing is the town's strongest weapon, and relying on an excuse like vote results to bring you to post what should come naturally (and what you should want to share) just seems unhelpful.

But if you do happen to have some menagerie of opinions & analysis ready to spring out at the start of Day 3 then I shall look forwards to it very much ^_^

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I'm pleasantly surprised you voted to approve CDB, after that gut scumread you had on me and all. As you say, one mafiosi ruins the whole mission, so might I ask what caused you to change your read?

If this mission passes then I'm going to be suspicious of those who voted 'no' during day 3.

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To be fair, erratics aside, some of Sivster's posts have actually been not bad at all since his "scumslip"

I'm not saying that clears it, but I do prefer Newsiv since his points are actually a bit more than just 'gut' or the washyness he had before.

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I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying his posting has improved slightly in my eyes and am giving credit (as hard as it is to Siv) where it is due. I think you're twisting my words a little bit there

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um no I didn't? All I said was his posting has improved? The main reason I said it, as well as giving my ounce of appreciation, was to perhaps get the lurksquad to post more. In that department at least, Siv is okay.

He's still not someone I'd want on a mission for sure, and I think my prior posts explain my view on him quite well, but it's not set in stone that's he scum. Even if he did claim it I think he was joking. That'd be both against his win condition and against the game spirit. It also makes no sense for scum and is more logical for a jokey Sivtown

That being said, his scumslip was still awful and I still lean scum on him by quite a good deal. I'd be a lot more confident in this read though if the lurksquad wasn't so dire >_>

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^fencesitting

A balanced opinion is fencesitting now?

Or perhaps you were merely referencing your own views on

every

player and that arrow was just a typo?

#easytocriticisewhenyoudonothingatallyourself

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um no I didn't? All I said was his posting has improved? The main reason I said it, as well as giving my ounce of appreciation, was to perhaps get the lurksquad to post more. In that department at least, Siv is okay.

He's still not someone I'd want on a mission for sure, and I think my prior posts explain my view on him quite well, but it's not set in stone that's he scum. Even if he did claim it I think he was joking. That'd be both against his win condition and against the game spirit. It also makes no sense for scum and is more logical for a jokey Sivtown

That being said, his scumslip was still awful and I still lean scum on him by quite a good deal. I'd be a lot more confident in this read though if the lurksquad wasn't so dire >_>

He's still scum. His spam-posting doesn't help anything.

I never said I didn't find him scum. I just said I found his more recent posting an improvement. This is very frustrating when people insist on shoehorning my words to mean something else. I was the first critic of Siv and have been even before he slipped. If anything I'd look for scum on the wagon just after he slipped rather than at me for offering an opinion unladen with values.

Wait so you wifomed yourself into accepting it based on someone who is obv scum and also telling you he's wifoming you?

What?

What?

I didn't wifom myself into anything. I don't like wifom and if I do have to resort to analysing it, then I always make it as clear as possible to let people know what i'm dealing with.
If for the 5th time I'm stating an opinion of you, then you're still not going on a mission whilst I'm alive. No wifom there

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Ah. To finally see that green octagon is nice.
More later//

(Also why did you lock the thread Xalxe? I had a very cool post up with Thurname analysis and I just lost it when I tried to send it as topic was locked :<

Typing it up again now. Might be a bit more condensed I'm afraid.)

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Okay so here is my (brief) Thurname analysis post take II

You have exactly one post with any substance. Plus, you know, lurkness.

This post comes just after CDB begins by naming Boswer in his scumlist. I dislike Bowser's defensive reaction to such a naming, but that's for another post. The main point being that Thurname only chips in his 2 opportunistic cents after CDB's initial FOSprod on Boswer. With a town shield to bear the brunt of any offensive this is a textbook hit-and-run wagon to gain towncred by sheeping CDB and attacking Boswer only when he's already under fire.
I'd also like to point out that quote in general. Thurname criticises Boswer for what is basically his own play, especially in day 2. It's really contradictory.
Of course it's still just one incident and that in itself is isolated. I can only point out fluff and lurking so many times too.

In post #355 he goes and does it again though in very similar circumstances. Same weak point. Same idea of using a push by another strong-town read (in this case Jal) to his own advantage by sheeping them, and only criticising after they do so first. Thurname sheeps and offers very little analysis of his own, preferring to hide behind the stronger townies to make his discreet pushes on under-fire players.

I find it odd that he chooses to fail the mission after saying before:

Anyway, I think everyone should say who they would pick were they team leader right now.

I like this idea.

I'd take TS and CDB, though Jal would be ok too.

As flattering as to read, I do find it incredibly strange that he then goes on to reject the mission. Especially after his only points against JDGA were some weak early games ones which i thought JDGA answered very well indeed.

In fairness and upon another ISO sweep, Thurname does have some (small) suspicions stated on JDGA, but these are in a very early stage. Having a scumread is fair enough, but just relying on a weak RVS-equivalent tell and not following it up wit sustained analysis is worrying and not the mindset that I like to see.

Thurname is suspect. Choosing to reject the mission makes things worse. I imagine I will also be ISO'ing Deathnote and Jason soon as they voted against the misson, but first I'd like to hear from the current leader and a list of reads from him (I distinctly recall asking for one of those from Diplomat ages ago too. Hmph)

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Having a reject at this point stands out, and I have to read over some ISOs, but we must not entirely reject the possibility that there were two scummies on board who just utterly failed.

Of course it's a possibility. But none one I'm willing to wifom my way into at this moment in time. If there really were two mafiosi on the mission (and that'd have to be CDB and JDGA which I strongly doubt) then I really don't see why only 3 votes went against. The last thing scum want is the highly risky job of sending 2 on a mission when they can't communicate.

Looking at the votes against and the relative scumminess of those who did vote against, I'm a lot more inclined to follow Occam's razor at this moment in time.

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If there were actually two scum on the mission, why is having

only

3 votes against inadequate? You wouldn't really have that much scum opposition. Just look at the previous games where every agent except one would send several moles on the same mission with each other.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying from what

I

gather, scum would look to avoid an awkward situation where multiple are on the scumteam and they have a 50% chance of a bad outcome (assuming the ideal is one opting to fail and the other opting to succeed). If it was a failed mission those who had voted against the nominations would look town. Thus if it was a successful mission, the most likely ones to have voted for it to fail would surely be the mafiosi with all the knowledge?

I do appreciate the insight you bring from having been a part of past games though. =]
Would you approve of a mission with Diplomat on it, Jal?

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You can have my thoughts any time, Jal <3

Going to ISO diplomat myself in a bit actually. Need to do some chemistry studying first though. Laters //

[TS]

I'm going to send me and everyone who rejected this one because hey why the hell not?

1) because that makes no sense
2) you aren't the leader for another 2 cycles
3) it conflicts with your own reads (see below)

Also TS my jason scumread is a complete carryover lol and I'm fairly sure I haven't explained it any better now than before.

I don't recall pressing you on a Jason scumread (if I did apologies for forgetting), but if you want to explain it go ahead~

[TS]

...Whatever I pick will get rejected anyway if people are being smart...

If you picked myself, CDB, JDGA and Jal i certainly wouldn't reject it

[TS]

If you want an example of Sivvy-pie purposely Wifoming, just click on his iso, and you're there

FTFY

Also I totally just saw you online Dippy, so let's have a nice post and that list of reads from you

Ninja'd. Nice.

Anyways. Considering you just said this:

I think as of now it's safe to bet that those 3 agents sent in are all town.

Can you explain your reasoning behind this:

For the second mission I would still like to have JasonWassa (although he might reject the mission, putting me in his scum list already), and perhaps also

one or two

people from the first mission. Are you guys alright with that?

I just find it odd that you have 3 solid townies in your eyes but don't want to send them all. Also, why Jason?

Have fun at Amish camp

[TS]

Purposeful wifom b/c hey everything is wifom when you're allbutconfscum .

If you're town please stop saying this

every

single

post.

[TS]

I do have some concerns with JDGA, he hasn't posted much either...

That's a poor reason. When something between 50-75% of the playerlist have been very sporadic in posting, I find it very harsh that you're singling JDGA out. In terms of a quality to conciseness ratio, he does very well too.

Because people are beginning to suspect you too (although I think otherwise, I still think TS leans town), plus people also suspect myself and said mission would likely not have a majority in going through.

If you are referring to me then I'd just like to point out that any suspicions on myself have been very weak and have probably come from opportunistic scum anyways, so I'm hardly accepting that as a reason. Also I still see little reason why you offered to nominate Jason

I agree with my fellow agent JDGA here. Any nomination with Diplomat in will be getting a very diplomatic rejection from myself.

[TS]

If you are referring to me then I'd just like to point out that any suspicions on myself have been very weak and have probably come from opportunistic scum anyways, so I'm hardly accepting that as a reason.

And I'd like to point out that I haven't voiced any suspicions about you. If you'll actually read you'll see you were one of my top townreads day 1.

Well in that case that only exemplifies my showing of your opportunism further, in that you have your U-turn only after a strong town read begins to press me on a point.
Your Strawmanning there is noted though//

Thankfully, you having a supposed town read on me doesn't mean I have to offer the same treatment to you. I eagerly await CDB's points on yourself

[TS]

^This is actually a good/worthwhile question

Who is Scum thurname? I'd also like to extend this question to our leader, Diplomat, and also to CDB after he finishes review since he has now (I take it?) removed myself and JDGA from being mild scum leans.

[TS]

I would certainly approve of a Jal mission!

[TS]

Please stop saying you're scum every post Siv. Even if you think it's amusing or somehow "so scummy it's townie" or whatever, it's really anti-town and frustrating >_>

Also I think you're mentioning WIFOm in every post now which is also very frustrating.

Diplomat, I will not accept ANY mission you pick, because if you're scum you can EASILY pick a scumbuddy to get on the mission.

It doesn't matter who does the nominating if they obey what the town says. And that's what Diplomat's proposing to do isn't it? By all means he has been suspect, but you can't get more fair than offering your leadership powers to the town as a whole.

Please answer this, Thurname/CDB/Diplomat

And please Siv, Jal is a beacon of townieism in a sea of lurking and storm of confusion. Any acerbic feels you have towards her are both baseless and misgudied.

[TS]

Yeah. And you stay away from beacons b/c they have rocks underneath them and if you go towards them you run aground .

No, you hit the rocks if you ignore the beacon.
CDB also works in the lighthouse but is asleep at the moment. Thurname is a pirate on the shores who has a tendancy to sheep any ships that head towards the rocks.

Siv, I seriously think we could put you on the mission and it just might be approved.

I continually flip between Siv => scum and Siv => VI

[TS]

What makes the flip?

uncertainty?

[TS]

He's a bum though. Almost usually a bum.

A scumbum?

[TS]

His bumminess swings both ways.

So what makes you think a Siv mission will get passed, Jal?

[TS]

Today's discussion about Siv are brought to you by me eating cookies n creme ice cream! It feels so naughty eating it at 10am-11am.

You can't say that and not share!

[TS]

Why has CDB been so inactive? It's really only the start of the game he's been here for and it's making me lose a scantling of faith in him :[

[TS]

hmm. Fair enough then. I am also voting to approve

Where is Deathnote? He hasn't posted once today? I have bad feels from him too so I'm not going to be happy if we forget about him at the very least

[TS]

I am here but me actually being here doesn't mean anything. I am read along and vote when needed but I dont really care to fight for being on missions. So long as people I think are town are on missions, then I dont care.

^scum #3

[TS]

I am here but me actually being here doesn't mean anything. I am read along and vote when needed but I dont really care to fight for being on missions. So long as people I think are town are on missions, then I dont care.

^scum #3

Doesn't matter if that's what you think

Finding scum in this game seems arbitrary to finding town.

Well you aren't helping us find town either which is kinda the problem

[TS]

If JDGA is the sole scum on the mission, had he failed it he would have probably been seen by everyone as scum, correct?

If he passes it however it means his more likely to get on other missions, there is always reason for scum to let 1 mission through, a successful mission means fuck all in a game like this.

Any reasons you have on a JDGA scum theory were really early in game and are little more than RVS reasons. Can you make a real JDGA case pls?

Who is scum, Thurhame?

Assuming a clean mission 1 team, I'd tentatively say Deathnote, Jason, Bowser, and Jal (in otherwords, the people I

didn't

mention in 367). If two of the missioners are scum, then still Bowser, but not sure about the fourth.

I find it peculiar and strange that your first 3 picks for scum seem to be rather similar to my own. Maybe add Siv or yourself in and obviously remove Jal

Explain Jalscum. I'm not seeing it.

What I saw was 4 posts saying "Siv must be scum" and I just panicked I guess.

tbf like 80% of your posts afterwards said that

No, it doesn't. His list of including you is already BS. He is also not considering the possibility that they aren't all town like others are. This is someone not scum hunting. He is just spewing blah blah blah vomit.

About half the playerlist isn't
Whilst Thurname is still obvscum at least he's playing to his wincon and trying to actually make some sort of reads. I think confessed lurkers like Death Note should just replace out though =/

I won't think much of his reads right now though unless he makes a case on them which he can respond to. Whilst around half of them are pretty solid scumreads, they're also incredibly obvious and very easy to bus.

Sorry about the long absence; I've been busy with finals and preparations for Pascha this Sunday.

I really need to stop relying on google ._.

[TS]

At least if this mission succeeds we're won. That's a nice thought

[TS]

After mulling it over I'm gonna have to accept this mission. Maybe I'm just hoping that there was town on that last one and this is our lucky break.

Well considering you accepted the last one and it passed don't you already think the last round was triple town?

[TS]

Hey, I just had an idea.

Take me and deathnote on mission 4 if we get that far.

this begs the obvious question of "WHY???"

esp. because mission 4 requires 2 scum to fail and in the eyes of many here, that's what you're suggesting =/

[TS]

I need to see how this turns out.

Experiment, ahoy!

If there is scum on the mission, I don't think it's JDGA.

why?

(I don't either but I may as well ask)

[TS]

wow.

Need to seriously review CDB and Jal. especially CDB. Might take a look at JDGA if Jal feels like explaining this now

I will explain after this mission has completed.

[TS]

This game is basically, you, me, and TS with friends.

You, me and TS would be an excellent name for a sitcom with us 3 as the main cast

Obviously it'd have Siv as the butt of all the jokes and Jal as the 'only sane man' trope, but I'd still watch it ^_^

If anyone's wondering I've been trying to make a CDB analysis. It's proving tricky since I hadn't played mafia in what must've been almost a year since this game. I'm ~50% through though so should have it done somewhat soonish.

[TS]

I don't know what to think of Jason's nominations in all honesty, but after his JDGA read I don't think /he/ could have chosen a better few really

I need to review JDGA also. Gosh so much to do ._.

If I find JDGA suspect on a read-back I'll probably be tempted to accept the mission

[TS]

I can't accept with a JDGA/Jal/CDB confscum at any rate

"It's a no from me"

[TS]

Agreed that my stomach kinda turned when you mentioned Thurname

I thought the suggested Diplomat nomination was a novel idea and one I had been considering myself though

[TS]

Also have you two even been reading thurhame?

He has some alright stuff but a lot of opportunistic lurky stuff

3/10 would not read/nominate again

[TS]

Tell me TS, how long have you been considering that novel Diplomat idea.

It was mainly his leadership role which seemed quite town in essence to me and how he put the nomination to the town itself. Lotsa humility for his role too which is really a lot more town that I might have given credit for

I haven't ISO'd I'll admit, but the feels were there

Still, more content from him would be nice -_-

[TS]

Tell me TS, how long have you been considering that novel Diplomat idea.

It was mainly his leadership role which seemed quite town in essence to me and how he put the nomination to the town itself. Lotsa humility for his role too which is really a lot more town that I might have given credit for

I haven't ISO'd I'll admit, but the feels were there

Still, more content from him would be nice -_-

Aren't you calling me scum?

Seriously what the fuck man?

???

I have no idea what you're trying to say here

[TS]

but

1) You didn't.
2) Diplomat seemed so much more genuine and wasn't screaming "where are my townie points?!"
3) Diplomat didn't nominate himself and you did.
4) I've hardly called you scum at all this game, if at all. As far as I'm aware a scumteam with the confscum from mission 4 and Bowser/Thurname/Deathnote is just as viable perhaps. I don't want to set anything in stone now though

[TS]

Just a note

AT THIS RATE WE WILL FAIL THE MISSION DUE TO CONSTANT REJECTION.

I think the next 3 people (Diplomat, Me, Siv) have all had some sort of suspicion thrown at us and that these would get refused.

So to get around this, Come my turn (assuming we are still mission 1) i expect everyone to basically vote for the top 3, cause you know i would rather have no choice over the people on the mission then to fail it by default.

Read this post and then keep trying TS

I was never suggesting a vote. That's quixotically unfeasible. Diplomat just looked at the top 4 townreads (even though he may not have agreed with them all himself) and then followed the wisdom of the crowd.

Of course, he hasn't really posted since =/

And w/r/t yourself you never even did that. It's like someone saying they'd been to the dentist after spending the day at a theme park, just because a month ago they vaguely scribbled "visit dentist" on the calendar somewhere for next month.

[TS]

I'd probably accept a Diplomat, Siv, TS, Jal mission

[TS]

kk

Who is numero quatro then?

[TS]

Not going to accept a Siv mission anyway.

Do we all agree that nowhere-here Bowser is scum?

him, Thurname and Deathnote

[TS]

Basically for me I have 3 players in my hyopthetical scumteam (see prior page) and the unknown from mission 2. The unknown aside, I'd

probably

accept any mission without Bowser, Thurname or Deathnote on it

[TS]

Well if you hadn't I'd have no reason to mention you

Everyone else finds you scum and you don't do a single thing beyond your obligatory votes.

It doesn't matter though. I'm fine pretending we lynched you by now.

[TS]

I'd probably accept this.

Have fun on camp Diplomat!

[TS]

Even if you guys don't believe Siv is scum, there were probably still two scum on mission one, making this mission most probably having guaranteed scum.

Alternatively there was 1 scum

Or 0 scum!

Or 3 scum!

Why 2? It's perhaps just pidgeonhole principle, but I don't like to let things be taken for granted in these games =V

[TS]

Tell me yourself why not two.

Um. It can be two?

I'm keeping the options open in the absence of proof.
You seem to be the one laughing off and dismissing the option of 1 scum (and 0 but tbf from your perspective I guess that's understandable) for little elaborated reason, which I find slightly concerning. The burden of proof with regards to the number of scum on mission 1 does not lie with me and I never claimed to know the answer. If you think there are two then I'm just offering you to present the case of why without the flashy rhetoric of "Do you really think one scum would play for towncred? haha!"

[TS]

@TS

: Answer the question instead of this blah blahness. I don't fall for long windedness. Tell me what you think happened, TS.

I'd answer a question if there was one. You basically asked me why there couldn't be 2 scum and I said there could. There could also be other numbers of scum though. I don't see why I'm being antagonised for not knowing the number of scum.

I think it's far more reasonable to express that I don't know the number rather than just assert "Lol, let's go with 2"

Please don't dismiss my posts as Long-windedness, Jal. That's precisely the attitude which has led to this game being a Lurkfest.

I think it is more your role to justify the question of "how many?" since you brought it up and claimed 1 was crazy.

Right now I am leaning towards you being mafiosi slightly in some aspects. Namely pushing your 'science project' all the way and then us getting a fail when you joined it, thus blurring and casting uncertainty towards 2 or 3 generally strong townreads.

In other aspects I don't see how your play could be scum at all since, statistically speaking, all of your scumbuddies are having a great time Lurking this game out. Maybe town leader is more your style though?

[TS]

Suddenly I'm a bit more happy that Siv didn't nominate Jal
Sent my accepting PM

[TS]

I'm a bit busy now but I'll try to respond to your omgus/strawmanning/misrepresentation/dismissal as 'crap' tonight.

Hopefully I shouldn't need to because it's clear that all you do is ad hominem my post (OMFGGGG WHAT IS THIS VOMIT?!?) without actually making valid points. Aggressive and aversive tactics are scummy but more later.

[TS]

If there's anything in particular you want me to answer other than "Derive the empirical proof for 2 scum because I said so kthnx" then I'd be happy to offer some thoughts as I've done to your questions and more for the past 25 pages.

Have fun being mission leader. I may not always agree with what you might have to say, but I'd defend to the death your right to say it.

[TS]

@TS

: Answer the question instead of this blah blahness. I don't fall for long windedness. Tell me what you think happened, TS.

I'd answer a question if there was one. You basically asked me why there couldn't be 2 scum and I said there could. There could also be other numbers of scum though. I don't see why I'm being antagonised for not knowing the number of scum.

I think it's far more reasonable to express that I don't know the number rather than just assert "Lol, let's go with 2"

Please don't dismiss my posts as Long-windedness, Jal. That's precisely the attitude which has led to this game being a Lurkfest.

I think it is more your role to justify the question of "how many?" since you brought it up and claimed 1 was crazy.

Right now I am leaning towards you being mafiosi slightly in some aspects. Namely pushing your 'science project' all the way and then us getting a fail when you joined it, thus blurring and casting uncertainty towards 2 or 3 generally strong townreads.

In other aspects I don't see how your play could be scum at all since, statistically speaking, all of your scumbuddies are having a great time Lurking this game out. Maybe town leader is more your style though?

What is this crap? This is vomit in a plastic grocery bag waiting to burst in the bathtube. Science project? I brought up one is crazy (link, please)? Laughing from the previous post? This is a horribly written fictional book. But hey, love that line you've been dancing regarding "IS JAL SCUM OR NOT." I'm scum.. but probably town.... but then you think I am scum one mission... then next you suggest I should be town out of nowhere. Like, this doesn't work, you know that right?

I'm done with this crap, TS. Give me something concrete and not this wishy washiness. Less whine this time. I don't take bullshit.

Siv: See: Every interaction with you recently. You are trying too hard now. Also, it's pretty revealing that when I call you out on fake ignorance that you fail to respond to that and instead to something not at all relevant.

Sentences 1-2 are either ad hominem dismissal or just an unamusing simile.
Next 4 sentences are equally incomprehensible

Then we get to the bit where you paint having a balanced opinion as frenzied fencesitting. Trying to push objectivity as fencesitting is real easy for scum to do and I always find it suspect as a result. It's never fencesitting in 99.99% of the instances where the fencesitter isn't being asked for an opinion or pressured to choose a side.
Amusing you talk about Wishy-washyness in light of this all though. You still haven't explained why two scum. Instead you just used it as a trigger to instigate some circular reasoning against myself. Which is really dumb

Either you exaggerate your arguments to make others looks worse (and be a mole) or you are the type of person who feels they need to exaggerate to push whatever point they are trying to make. I could see you doing either. Just like I can see you being ignorant to the game mechanics, but just as capable of faking it to try and earn townie points.

> Says I exaggerate
>Isn't the one running around screaming that there must be 2 scum and that conflicting opinions or other possibilities are analogous to vomit in baths.

I've been asking you to tell me your own personal thoughts on what you think went on the last two missions.

My thoughts are that there was either 1 scum who passed for towncred (admittedly I have no clue how viable a strategy this is), that there were two scum who both erred on the side of caution (which is reasonable I guess. 3 passes on mission one is better than 2 fails as 2 fails means at least one of that team is now conf. scum to some peoples) or that there were no scum on mission one and that Occam's razor was in a good condition for shaving after all.

A 3 scum mission 1 is a bit silly, and whilst it is possible, there is a trade-off between comprehensiveness and the amount of 'wine in front of me' that isn't turning to vinegar.

TS: What are your thoughts on the first two missions?

Same as they've ever been. If you held a gun to my head I'd say the scum was you because, heh, gun to my head. But in all seriousness I'd possibly veer slightly onto JDGA if pushed because he's been following the official 'Deathnote's guide on playing Resistance' recently.
I wouldn't knee-jerk yet though because there are plenty more mafiosi candidates, and I'm also hoping this mission, if/when accepted, casts more light onto Mission 1 & 2 alignments.
It's a bit like playing mastermind really.

Now I have no idea if this mission is going to pass and think that it's odd that we haven't actually talked about it much yet. If one good thing has come out of sidequest #106: "There simply must be 2 scum on mission 1", then I guess Thurname has taken some active mediator role which I'm pleasantly surprised with.

[TS]

But in all seriousness I'd possibly veer slightly onto JDGA if pushed because he's been following the official 'Deathnote's guide on playing Resistance' recently.

FTR the pages of walls being produced by you and Jal now are a major deterrent to posting here.
I also had a look at my reads on everyone, and came out with scum as Jal, DeathNote, JasonWazza, and Bowser, so I'll be (somewhat reluctantly) accepting this.

@Mod: Can we get an update on the Mission Record?

Why? You can kinda comment on these things if you like. I agree that I'm not keen on the impromptu face-off either much though.

It's nice you had a read back though. I could see that scumteam perhaps working. I take it you're accepting the mission then?

[TS]

You still haven't said why two but w/e. Tunnelling on each other is doing the town no favours at all.
I've given my thoughts on the numbers and the possibilities and I'm glad you have too.

[TS]

It was more this bit that was making nebulous thoughts swirl but oh well

Even if you guys don't believe Siv is scum, there were probably still two scum on mission one, making this mission most probably having guaranteed scum.

This mission will prolly not pass anyway I think =/

[TS]

With mushrooms, olives and goats cheese?

(I am the only person alive who asks for that combination ._. )

[TS]

If the mission goes through and fails then Jal is 80-90% town I think.

[TS]

With mushrooms, olives and goats cheese?

(I am the only person alive who asks for that combination ._. )

This sounds ridiculously good with white sauce + Chicken.

YES! ='D

[TS]

I find that 5-5 split fascinating

But I'm just glad that vote is over seeing as it lasted forever

[TS]

REJECTING THIS MISSION.

Rejecting this mission just because you dislike Jal is really bad Siv. =/

Furthermore after this is Thurname. So unless you're a big fan of his then it'd most likely pass on to attempt #5 and the last chance saloon. Though I know I'm town, I'd find it odd that any other townie would be so willing to let the decision come to the last resort

Actually, TS, who do you think scum is?

Can't help but feel I've said my reads a lot this game and I think the spotlight would be better shining on some of the more elusive players.
You can find my hyopthetical scumteam thoughts in my ISO, but the 5-5 split throws a bit of a spaniard in the works.

Right now I think a popcorn 'scumteam' claiming needs to happen with people listing their 4 most suspect players. I feel that's the only way to get some players to 'fess their reads.

[TS]

REJECTING THIS MISSION.

Rejecting this mission just because you dislike Jal is really bad Siv. =/

A mission with a scum leader is not a mission Town can win. If you think the leader is scum, you vote no. I'm not sure how in the world you can call that scummy.

It's more the fact that he already had his mind made up whereas what I would find the instinctive thing to do would be to keep an open mind at this point. Plus it could've been a diplomat scenario where the nomination was not self-influenced but instead was what the town wanted.

I digress. Back to popcorn

[TS]

You seriously think a scum leader would nominate an all-town team at this point in the game? Even if it

looks

town influenced, given how much disagreement there is it would be easy to slip scum in.

fair point. But still not impossible

Also, "open mind" means being willing to change one's mind based on new information (or reevaluation of old information). It does NOT mean never making up one's mind in the first place.

Well yeah. It's fine if he has an opinion but I wouldn't want him to shut his mind off should any new evidence or information surface

w/e

[TS]

Thurhame is talking a

lot

of sense right now. Definitely approving here (but not approving the mission because Jal is S.C.U.M)

JDGA, who's the scumteam? (I'm going to ask everyone this since no-one wants to popcorn)

[TS]

TS, how the hell is me being okay with last-chance saloon scummy?

Maybe it's just my nature, but I dislike leaving things until the final shot that we have

my scumteam thoughts are unchanged from 5 days ago. Only possible change is that Thurname's put his foot on the accelerator recently which makes me think he's more of a nightstrike town and a bit less of an artful opportunist.

[TS]

I can roll with a Bowser claim though

[TS]

I believe I originally misunderstood you, but if you think you're coming up with some revelation after I have been arguing about the possibility of two scum since the first mission, then you can start strapping that stiffie back down into your pajama waistband and go back to bed.

How do you guys feel about sending Siv, TS, CDB, and Diplomat on the mission?

I thought you didn't fancy Siv for town?

[TS]

I don't fancy him as town whatsoever.

so why did you suggest him then?

If you want my final suggestions I'd accept a Jal/Siv/TS/JDGA team. Thurname's been quite smooth today but I'm still tentative to add him at this point. I think/thought JDGA is/was town but I do wish he'd post more. As for Bowser I think he's just vanished and should be replaced. If not then there's been a request for him to list his scumteam suspects for a few days now.

[TS]

Nothing makes sense in this game >.>
Maybe JDGA is scum which is the dilemma I'm having. My thoughts about him are all nebulous but I think perhaps up to a point I just didn't want him to be not town =/
Or maybe CDB is the scum. I do feel that when he's here a promises a lot but then vanishes again. That might be why I'm not seeing him in the light I did earlier

sigh

[TS]

you seriously just proposed Jason and Deathnote? In the politest way possible, why?

(especially after just declaring Diplomat as probtown )

I don't think a scum-Deathnote would be risky enough to put two scum on a mission, especially when he had a chance to replace any of them with me.

[TS]

How does that indicate I put Diplomat as prob town? I suggested Deathnote indicating I think he is town. That quote above only applies for Deathnote scum.

Sorry, my mind blanked and I read deathnote as diplomat

(You really think Jason & Diplomat are town though?)

You do realise this'll probably get a near unanimous rejection?

[TS]

If we reject this you'd better have some golden nominations Thurname

[TS]

Sorry, my mind blanked and I read deathnote as diplomat

(You really think Jason & Diplomat are town though?)

You do realise this'll probably get a near unanimous rejection?

I sure hope you think Diplomat is town given that you voted for him to be on a mission last round.

I haven't actually been suggesting a Diplomat town, however.

People have been revving up to reject me for the past two missions. I'm not going to create some mission just to try and appease people who think I am scum for whatever divine reasoning they came up with.

yeah I think Diplomat is town for sure. Well not quite for sure =p

and I meant Deathnote again in the parenthesis. aaargh >.>

Fair point if you want to do your thing since you're the leader, but we need to remember that we have just 2 shots left if this doesn't pass.

[TS]

TS, why are you so scared of being a dictator?

I'm not; I'm looking forwards to my nominations actually. No where have I said that I'm scared so I'd rather you didn't misconstrue my words.

I just find it slightly worrying that we're getting to 3, maybe 4 non-passes and there isn't that much concern. If I wasn't the leader soon I'd be pretty nervy about that.

[TS]

I empathise with Jal here. Why you guys didn't responder to her asking your opinions of myself is a bit =/

I'd quite like to sign the "please replace Boswer and maybe Jason or Deathnote" petition since we really are only < half the town at the minute.

At this point I'm seriously considering accepting the mission due to a mix of apathy, frustration and an admiration of Jal's efforts here. I feel like her and I are the only sane ones sometimes.

[TS]

I wanted reactions and I just realized Jason hasn't said anything for eight days and I see him around. What the hell.

yeah. He has been posting elsewhere today. I wouldn't be against replacements if they completely flake u_u

[TS]

Are you accepting, Diplomat?

[TS]

P-Edit: What benefit do i have as scum to just stop posting?

Ah. Wifom. We meet again

anyways, you should respond to JDGA's point about mission throwing because it's very much valid

[TS]

Wow, whole lot of new posts.

Reading through, Jal is looking more and more Town. TS is ... not. If I were to take a guess at the scumteam right now, I'd say Deathnote, TS, Diplomat, Jason.

The lack of reasoning here really reminds me of the opportunistic Thurname which is sad because I thought he was beginning to look town again. Sadly, I'm tired for making cases on Thurname scum only to be ignored in response (I seriously know how you feel Jal :[ )

At the very least a scumread on myself should force you to make some sensible nominations for the next round. I do find it a bit off how you've dropped the CDB and Jal suspicions you've mentioned earlier this phase. Especially with CDB vanishing again (2 posts in 10 days did Siv say?)

@Mod: can we get a Bowser replacement maybe? it's been over a week since a Bowser post :s

[TS]

didn't we have this exact same argument 20 pages ago? Slow news day?

[TS]

I would love to have a CDB replacement and be able to change whatever I submitted in case they change my mind.

hm. Are you perhaps regretting choosing CDB?

[TS]

Hello Kingdom. It is nice to see that you have been reading along. I like your reads & enthusiasm. The sooner this never-ending day phase ends I think we can really crack down on things.
It's hard to say what the best bits to read up on are. I guess a general skim-through should be alright though.

For some reason, I think that in this situation Jalscum would want another scum on the mission with her, and then try to use that to clear them if there is only one failure.

I'm not sure I understand this. Why not bring along 3 townies and have just the sole failure?

[TS]

so Thurname. What's the story with your thoughts?

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TS accepted? WHY?

I said so here

But I sent my decision early. Seeing how the day panned out and the new theories and posts, I don't think I'd be particularly eager to accept this mission next time. I finish that day phase with stronger suspicions of DeathNote and Jal

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KingdomAces is sounding more town than CDB did; I'm fairly confident in TScum. That means I really, really want to get this mission accepted, since if it doesn't we have to accept TS's team.

With that in mind, I'd like everyone to list who they would accept out of {myself, Siv, JDGA, KingdomAces, Jal}.

It's sad because other than the fact that you have never presented a real case on me and continually tunnel on me, you do have at least smallest scantling of consistency in your reads.
I would accept the middle 3 of those. I'd be a bit (more than a bit.) unsure of either of the bookends though. It depends if I look at the good bits of Thurname or the bad bits.

[TS]

Yeah. I do find it really quite suspect that Jal rejected her own mission. It's possible something may have changed her reads (if so, what? Any why wasn't such a pivotal piece of info pointed out to us?) but otherwise it just looks like a really shifty mafiosi gambit which was abandoned when it became clear the mission wasn't going to pass.

I think 2/5 of that list contains scum.

So if it's a team like that it will fail by me.

So I take it you'd be more than happy for myself as the last leader then? You'd be willing to give me absolute power? From your PoV why isn't that dangerous?

[TS]

myself, Siv, JDGA, KingdomAces, Jal

TS... I'm getting gutscum off him in a few places... I don't like how RELUCTANT he seems to be about being dictator.

For the last time I'm not reluctant!
I'm just worried how some people are so eager for this to go down to the wire and the final chance. Were it anyone but myself I'd be worried for sure if it went to the 5th last chance! And it baffles me why some others aren't

and fwiw why on earth would reluctance be a scummy thing? If anything scum would be delighted to have the absolute power. Your reasoning is awful here Siv. Sort it out.

(and if you disagree with my scumhunting then you're going to have to explain. It's a lot worse scumhunting on your part if you just say "he's had at scumhunting" and leave that there)

[TS]

and fwiw why on earth would reluctance be a scummy thing? If anything scum would be delighted to have the absolute power. Your reasoning is awful here Siv. Sort it out.

Um. THIS. So much this. And I can make an argument for the opposite. (Scum have more responsibility if it fails, and town can avoid having scum influence it?) But this is the basic perception so scum subvert it for towncred.

so basically your reason is just you wifoming?

TS, it's the fact you're all like "Omigod why are you so confident in my towniness?" Which is just ew to me.

Except that's exactly it. If it was Deathnote being #5 or anyone else I'd be incredibly wary not to let him have that casting decision. There are some who have less than flattering reads on myself yet are perfectly happy to give me the golden hammer. I find that hugely suspect and which is why I'm pointing it out.
I'm not afraid to speak my mind, even if it is a little controversial at times. Whilst I clearly know I'm town, only scum should know that I am for sure and therefore I'm highly irked by those willing to give let this mission slide when they say shifty, unjustified, things about me. the fact that you persecute myself trying to press points of inconsistency amongst some players as some strange reluctance compulsion (which is at best a null tell. Even you admit this) is really unhelpful on your part at the best and horribly anti-town at the worst.

[TS]

really unhelpful on your part at the best and horribly anti-town at the worst.

Hey, what's the difference?

Is this even a question? Well one is just a momentum-losing diversion and the other is making a very fallacial attack on my efforts to press inconsistencies for some mafiosi motive.

But yeah. Your logic is awful and your claims false.

[TS]

With that in mind, I'd like everyone to list who they would accept out of {myself, Siv, JDGA, KingdomAces, Jal}.

All of those except Jal.
TS and Siv feels like barking up the wrong tree and a likely town-vs-town.

I'm not barking up any tree amigo. I'm barking at a dog with rabies and an illogical biting compulsion

(Siv is still probably town by PofE. But perhaps one of the worst VIs I've ever seen)

[TS]

The wonderful inconsistencies of Siv:

Last day phase:

You're probably town, and you've okay reads, so I'm kinda fine with you being dictator.

Actually, hangon, TS is fifth leader... YAY!

This day phase:

TS... I'm getting gutscum off him in a few places.

I also can't tell if he's bad at scumhunting or bad at faking it.

Now:

Anyway, I kinda agree with you TS, mostly.

[TS]

you interpreting everything wrongly?

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Fine. I guess at least with regards to activity you get top marks

I'd probably agree with JDGA here with regards to nominations.

[TS]

[TS]

Exactly.

Fine. I guess at least with regards to activity you get top marks

WHAAAA?

For the past 3+ days I've just been posting for the sake of posting. I've had like 5 minutes to actually read the thread lol so yeah.

I hadn't noticed any change myself.
And I meant that you don't need to be cattle-prodded to post unlike some (coughBowser)

[TS]

Jal most likely purposed that mission for the sake of getting reads. I found it odd that she would pick me but I guess it makes more sense now.

The reason that idea (which makes sense on the surface) causes a few twinges of suspicion with me is that in that case Jal was more than happy to let Thurname and I decide on the two nominations if she wasn't expecting hers to go through.
And judging by her reads list that doesn't look awfully likely. I don't see Jal throwing her own leadership chance away either.

Perhaps you could explain things Jal?

[TS]

If anything scum would be delighted to have the absolute power.

If anything

any player

would be delighted to have the absolute power.

well that's obvious. Stop being pedantic

It's the case for scum more so than town. Because they can guarantee a failure with the deciding power. Town can't guarantee a success as they lack perfect knowledge. Thus scum have the far greater gain etc.

There are some who have less than flattering reads on myself yet are perfectly happy to give me the golden hammer.

Who?

well perhaps Jason who's a bit eager for a failure today and maybe Jal who seemed to have intended to not let her mission go ahead from the looks of things. I'd also put you in this category were you suggestions today not unusually coherent (except for the omission of my self which I find really dumb seeing as you don't have a case on me at all. Or even anything above fallacious points which have already been dispelled by myself.)

[TS]

It's the case for scum more so than town. Because they can guarantee a failure with the deciding power. Town can't guarantee a success as they lack perfect knowledge. Thus scum have the far greater gain etc.

I'd say it's the other way around. The game is slanted towards scum anyway, which means it's Town who need to work at maximizing their chances of success.

Well it isn't. Town need to share their knowledge (the town's biggest weapon: discussion) to maximise their chances. Scum would just be chuffed to be in the kingmaker position and dictate how they want that to all turn out for the round.

You can't just say I'm scum of PofE. Granted I may be in your eyes, but as I've yet to see a plausible case for 6 more townie characters from you. Until then I'm going to think it's just a convenient way of a baseless omgus.

[TS]

You still think a sole scum chose to pass mission one then?

[TS]

Yes, I do. I think it's something a passive type like you might do.

I'm a passive type?
After Siv I'm the most active on here. And I'm pretty sure in terms of actual content either myself or Jal have the most

[TS]

I don't fencesit. How many times have I said this. One of the most anti-town things you can do is call a balanced opinion fencesitting and you continually ignore my counterarguments.
And I find saying I have a general lack of commitment just insulting

I need to think hard over if I'll accept or not. It generally hinges on if you fall into the "too scummy to be scum" adage. I'm pretty sure Siv, KA and JDGA are town

[TS]

Nobody state whether they're accepting or rejecting until TS does.

Not necessarily because he's scum, but he has the most to gain from everyone else's votes if he is.

I find this intriguing. What do you have to gain by myself stating though? At the very worst case scenario you'd just see my vote at the end of this voting phase, so I'm not sure what your point is. It's bemusing, but I've already given my thoughts as I stand now. I have neither no extremist compulsion to reject or accept this mission. But of course, anything without such a partisan spirit is fencesitting to Thurname.

It really depends if scum can play as badly as he does in parts

[TS]

you mean change my mind?

I still don't see the point of this. If you stuck a pistol to my head I'd probably vote to reject the mission. And if you're forcing me to stick to that (because changing my mind on a hard decision is now scummy for some reason?) then that's what I'll do

[TS]

If I cared how other people voted and wanted to sheep them, then I wouldn't have voted to accept last round would I?

It's a dilemma over Thurname, not if probtown XYZ is voting for this to go through.

At any rate I've voted to reject the mission. Mainly because of you forcing to me to do this quickly for no good reason.
I'd want you to vote as you'd like though, for as you say, changing your mind on the basis of my vote would be ever so slightly suspect

[TS]

really unsure if I should change to accept. I'm just so ambivalent about Thurname and the rest are so town ;_;

(fwiw are you allowed to change after submitting?)

also I'm V/la from 24 hours from now, lasting about 28 hours. Boardgame night and we're playing Puerto Rico

[TS]

Jal! Are you voting to accept? I'm really confused ;______;

(or maybe not? A part of me would thinks you won't because you think KA is scum. The other part thinks you'd never give me the golden 5th choice hammer)

[TS]

Oh great. Thanks for not abating my corrosive worries of uncertainty :V

3/10. No boardgame night for you

[TS]

ha! Is that a challenge? ;]

If you accept then I am almost surely scum in your eyes (because mission 2) and therefore I need to re-evaluate my views on Thurname. Right now if it did go down to the wire then I'd be tempted to nominate a team similar to this round but with myself instead of Thurname. I'm probably going to ISO him now actually. I feel restless and want to classify him once and for all.

However I'd rather it didn't fall to me as #5 in all honesty. I'd rather start the fiery tango for mission 4 than dance the last waltz on mission 3.

[TS]

(no that was if you did accept)

But it doesn't matter really. I need to evaluate Thurname to put my mind at rest regardless of what you vote. I asked just because I felt you'd gone a bit quiet. I liked to think we have a love-hate relationship this game.

If I do decide Thurname is town (and gosh his D1 was awful if he is) then it'd probably be PofE anyways or myself blinkering his early game opportunism. Neither of which offer true satisfaction.

"If only life was easy it could be such fun"

[TS]

It can be love-love and lots more love after we win :)

[TS]

Hope I'm not wrong about Siv. But it's nice to see that this eternal day phase is finally over.

Need to lie down now. Boardgame sleepover was a blast. Didn't get to sleep until 7AM though and wowzers my body aches (Going down the park zipwire at 3AM with my two friends at the same time and above solid tarmac was certainly not the best idea)

[TS]

THIS GAME

[TS]

Right now I feel very strongly about either Siv or Thurname being the scum on the last mission. I don't know which. I don't care which. They are staying away from this mission of mine (which sadly is in Brazil. Why do I get the sucky places?)

Having said that, I'm just going to make this simple.
Jason should go on this mission and so should Diplomat. I'm also nominating myself. Bowser and Deathnote can stay well away and thankfully we'd need 2 scum to fail this mission. Thus even if one of {JDGA, KA} is scum, we should be safe if I throw them in as the last two nominees.
And if they're both scum their co-ordination has been masterful at getting only one mission fail on the last 2 attempts.

Having said that, mind if I take you to Brazil with me, Jal? Forget the mission stuff

[TS]

No way. Jason and Diplomat are scum.

@Jason: You rejecting the mission is guaranteed by your reads as either scum or town; it has no bearing on your alignment. Bowser hasn't even posted in over a week, so he's not bound by anything, so you'd expect scumBowser to accept the mission unless he was certain TS would take scum.

sorry Compadré. Diplomat is the flickering ember of towniness in the campfire of this game. And I'm the one with the marshmallows for toasting.

Judging from their play (not often I can leave it at that. heh) Bowser and DN are more scummy than a scum who's just been appointed Professor of Scumming at Oxford University and is feeling in a particularly scummy mood. Especially both of them.

Recently Jason hasn't put a foot wrong and Diplomat hasn't ever had a chance either. He gave up his leadership in the hunt for

truth

Having said that I don't know why people keep thinking the triple green M1 must've had scum on it. Why can't it be just triple town? It is the easiest one to pass after all. Plus everything makes sense after that as the scumteam becomes {DN, Bowser, Jal ( ) and Siv/Thur}

But I never like being the dictator which is why I kinda changed my mind last round. I'll listen to your theories if you want to explain to me Dip/Jason scum a bit more

(Did I mention we need 2 scum to fail as well btw? Thus if there's just one they'll choose to pass and things could get confusing for the final round)

[TS]

hmmmm. Okay. I think my play has been a bit too PofE-y so far and a bit too much "well this fits the jigsaw and it'd be cool if it was true"

I have a flaw and it's that I like things to make sense. I like things to be a simple and clean. And triple town M1 kinda was. But I guess simple, smooth and suave isn't going to win the game for us.

What would people think to a TS/Jal/Diplomat/KA/Jason team then? I can compromise. Especially in a mission that needs 2 scum to fail.

TS, you're just trying to flirt with me about the trip to bribe me into accepting

I wasn't actually. The last bit anyways. How could you think that? </3

[TS]

Sadly I'm playing Resistance here, not "Thurname Appeasement Party 2" for the Wii U. The reviews for that game were pretty bad.
If you don't want to vote to approve then fine, and I'm not convinced that's a wholly bad thing if my reads on you are correct.

@TS: Suppose the first mission is all town. First, that means Jal and Siv are scum, when they're my strongest townreads. Second, that means DN is town, when he's my strongest scumread. From my point of view, assuming a gambiting scum makes everything fit together much better.

how exactly does that make DN town though?



~24 hours from now, and unless something special happens, then I'm nominating my Brazil Beach Party

[TS]

Everytime I think I'm getting somewhere with my reads:

[TS]

@TS: Because DN and Siv together doesn't make sense, unless you think DN deliberately put 2 scum on his mission at the start of the game.

That mission 1 was going to get rejected anyways.

You'd have a point if all of this didn't hinge on you being town. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. If anything you're kinda just reminding me why I rejected that last mission at first

p-edit: ty

[TS]

fine....

What team would you ideally send now, Jal?

[TS]

nothing? I was just interested in who you'd send now

once I've heard from JDGA and Siv and such I'll put up a team.

[TS]

Okay I'm restless. I'm going with what makes sense to me

Nominate TS, Jason, KA, JDGA, Diplomat

If you think 2 scum are in that feel free to reject

[TS]

Guys, reject this unless you think thur/me/jal scum, because we're all probably rejecting it.

You can't just say that. There's nothing to think this will be rejected by a majority; especially since we need 2 scum and these players are as town as any I could pluck

[TS]

We've lost two missions. Scum can just all yes if they think it's going to work for them.

Or they could just say "reject this mission because we're all going to reject it anyways" if they think it could bring it back to 2-2

[TS]

Okay, let's go right back to start.

Deathnote is scum.
Thus, KA is town.
Thurhame is probtown.
Thus, JDGA is scum.
Thus, TS/Jal is town.

Leaving bowser/diplomat/jason as one town two scum.

I love how you paired me and Jal up ^_^

But yeah... You'd better hope JDGA isn't scum because after KA we have a delightfully suspect run of Bowser/DN/JDGA as leaders

Also Thurname Probtown? ಠ_ಠ

[TS]

Fine...

If that's how it is i'll just have my own Brazil Beach Party

*sniff

[TS]

Okay, whoever the sixth townmember is, YOU NEED TO WORK WITH US. We need your vote to win, and if you just laze about like you are then it's gonna be a scumvote.

Siv casually doing a Clint Eastwood and talking to someone invisible

In all seriousness though, this could be a pretty pivotal nominations vote seeing as we have some "fun" leaders coming up next

[TS]

The mass rejection of the last team seems more to me like none of the scum wanted it. The reason why I rejected it myself was because of JDGA/Diplomat, but the fact that pretty much no one actually accepted it at the very least makes me look at Jason more favorably, and possibly Diplomat as well.

And why not myself who actually nominated it?

I was your top town read so what might've changed here hmm?

Thankfully, I think that proposed mission there only contains the one scum from #3 so I'd be more than fine passing it as 2 is now the threshold

[TS]

Well you have slightly under an hour left. Obviously I'd prefer it if you chose me but my hand might be forced to accept regardless after seeing the next few leaders.

Have a nice day

[TS]

I half feel like taking a gamble on bowser town and rejecting this so I can have a shot, but that would be DUMB.

Yes

Yes it would

[TS]

Perhaps we could ask Ani to finish this off if Xalxe doesn't show up soon? He seems to be familiar with the rules at least

[TS]

Sooo... Brazil beach trip now Jal

In all honesty I thought you guys should really have discussed my 'townslips' more with Jal, or at least find it incredulous that myself of all people would misread the rules twice. You should've picked up from the game that I'm very meticulous.
End of mission 1 and I was thinking a combination of, my risky accepting, Jal (MVP) and my 1 star scumbuddies (Thurname picked it up at the end in fairness) had cost us the game. Here's a PM I sent to the mod then though:

Prepare for a long post. Why am I doing a long post?
1) To get spiralling thoughts off of my chest and out of my head
2) This may be a talking point post-game so I may as well type it up here and now
3) you may like reading it. idk

But first I must say how much my scumteam suck. I don't even feel bad about bussing them anymore. In fact punsihing them for being bad scum is perhaps best part
What were your thoughts after Random.org spat those picks at you. Scumteam are dead? hehehehe
But I don't mind. I like a challenge anyways

So now I hit the dilemma. The obvious choice is to vote to fail. With only one scolex on the mission (oh btw did I mention my scumbuddies are useless lurkers? The fact that any one of us got onto this mission is as good as a win in itself >_> ) if I opt to make it fail I get one base in the bag. 1/3. And the hardest one too! Plus the fear factor in the town will surely increase. They might have to re-consider everything and even my clueless scumbuddies might get a second chance. Probably not though.

I know that the 2 most powerful townies are CBD and Jal. They are also the two who suspect me the most I think. If I fail this mission then they're perhaps slightly more inclined to suspect me as the mafiosi over JDGA (who I must say has been a bit vanilla this game. :< ). With those two on my back my chances of another nomination look a bit lower to only around ~40/50%
However, I am good at using words to get out of situations like this. Using words is something my scumbuddies have no clue about tbqh. This is basically TS against the town. I

could

fail the mission and try to blame it on CBD/JDGA. CBD is weak as he lurked all of day 2 and JDGA is weak in a sense because everyone finds him a little fishy for some reason. He likes me this game though so I'd rather not try and paint him as the scolex.

Therefore It depends on how well I can tunnel on CDB/JDGA if I choose to fail. Whilst both are lurky enough for me to perhaps beat them I'd rather just use their subsequent towniness from a passed mission to my own advantage. And I am impressed in how I'm winning over Siv a little. I found his 'scumslip' hilarious because if anything it was a townslip*. It won't do me any favours to explain that though

Spoiler: *

*Speaking of townslips why can't my scumbuddies point out a good townslip for me! Why make them go ignored when they could try to confirm me as town.

Deathnote I would lean scum on. Actually that depends. How many scum are there again? 3?

I'll accept that's a fair enough point though. I'm sure you'll be able to have a laugh about that one in the scum quicktopic

I don't enjoy pretending to be noobtown, but it's always worth it if a buddy has the sense to light the fire for a 'hey look a townslip.' This has just taught me I can't rely on my buddies at all though. I'm an SK this game

I was tempted to do a 3rd townslip along the lines of "why do us townies have to PM you if we can only vote to pass?" except less obviously fake, but I thought Jal might pick up on it. She's actually observant unlike my buddies. Credit to her; I'd have been proud to have had her as a scumbuddy this game ^_^

Anyways. The

boring

thing to do would be to fail the mission. I say boring because it is the obvious thing, although it would make me feel very glad that things are going so well for me up to that point.
People who do boring things never become champions. Well unless you're a backgammon champion or something. Choosing to accept the mission is high risk but a high reward. I do worry that I'd be throwing away a chance to make the best mission fail, and that does seriously make me not want to pass the mission. But...

1) If I fail it then I reduce my chances on going on another mission by a lot. And if the town has any sense my scumbuddies sure won't be going on one
2) If this mission passes and next time it's the same team plus one more, then if it fails then that extra player looks almost certainly scum from a simple subtraction calculation.
3) Being in CDB and Jal's good books would only do me favours
4) My scumbuddies are probably expecting me to do the dull thing and fail this mission. I imagine they live in a delusional world where even if I sacrifice my own town cred they'll get nominated somehow. I'd quite like to just show them a statement of intent along the lines of 'I don't need your help' and decide to do things my way. Rather than make them think they've somehow been useful thus far that is

so tl;dr it's short-term euphoria against long-run fiendish funzies and a 'town ticket' to bus my scumbuddies to oblivion. It will be heart-breaking to see that green octagon above the first mission constantly, especially as I worked so hard to get nominated, but I know which Path I'd take

vote to pass

Aren't you lucky you have me to make this an interesting game for you

@KA: I AtE how?

In conclusion I'm pleased with how this turned out seeing as I haven't mafia'd in forever. I kinda felt bad for being the only one playing along with Jal at some points though. Next time it should be us two taking this game to the cleaners

[TS]

Bah. Go town!

JDGA (who I must say has been a bit vanilla this game. :< )

?

Don't worry. Everyone likes vanilla ^_^

[TS]

Now that Siboot got canceled, I can just say that I figured out who TS was there, and I was allied with him. That's why I was more inclined to trust him here than I should have been. I know I shouldn't have brought outside influences into this, but I guess that just happened anyway.

Kendra <3

(also crack that code please! )

[TS]

That just tends to happen.

I have no idea what the hell you two are talking about though.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_Legacy_ ... /index.php?

Kendra and I were tight in that game.

A random point, but Jal stopped being generally a great Obvtown I felt when she changed her avatar. Strange coincidences~

[TS]

I always used to have the "Happiness" sun avvy because I felt it subconsciously made people think I was a nice sun of townieness

Maybe the same subliminal effect can occur in reverse. Idk

(Oh and you get used to the bright blue. It's authentic Siboot)

[TS]

Siboot died? Aww

But Skordokott lives on!

[TS]

To be fair to diplomat, he managed to completely screw with my read on jason.

I actually thought your 'scumslip' was a townslip
(Not that I cared to point that view of mine out )

[TS]

I wish I had gone first. I proposed an all town team back when I was wiser.

But where would the fun have been in that? (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ