Escape from Dolos 7 - Technicians vs. Aliens (GAMEOVER)

[foilist13]

/in with intrigued-ness.

[foilist13]

Yes, indeed, why me? I have posted not at all other than to /in.

This is an odd format in so far as we have no way of punishing players. I wanted to bring this up at the outset. In a game of mafia we could lynch a VI as a matter of course to improve the game environment for town, but here we have to punitive capability, only a reward of sorts. Does anyone have any ideas as to general rules of discussion? I think we ought to approach the meta-game head on as opposed to treating this like a game of mafia. We ought to illuminate the best way mathematically to eliminate players as either techies or aliens.

I will take a crack at it when I'm more sober. It is the super bowl after all.

[foilist13]

Via my dice roll (using a d20/5 and the order of signups as assigned numbers) the order would be:

Titus
foilist13
Mastin
Misty
Blackberry

I rolled a real die on a real table, so I think it should beat out virtual randomization.

I've been doing a lot of math, and I think I have a couple groups of probabilities worked out, but it's largely based on what I think is best play for the aliens, so writing it all out would create a WIFOM situation. I cannot find a way to definitively rule out a player as being a techie or an alien aside from victory and your role pm. We only get four attempts, so direct POE is extremely difficult.

For now I would like to know who Titus would take on his mission assuming we accept my dice roll.

[foilist13]

That's a fair critique. I don't know the randomization you're referring to though, but so long as it is indeed random I have no qualms either way.

[foilist13]

"Extremely difficult" means I gave up running scenarios after a bit and I didn't put impossible just in case someone else figured it out and then I would look stupid.

I do not understand the unofficial captain idea as it is written. I thought Titus was suggesting we roll dice and send someone. Are you suggesting we have some sort of shadow vote?

[foilist13]

Yes, I was about to bring that up. Everyone needs to fight to go on missions

except

a scum player whose buddy is already on the mission. Town all need to go together to win, so town need to by trying to be on missions even more than scum do.

[foilist13]

Vote:Blackberry Captain

If this doesn't work out we're all going to be listening to Titus a lot more closely.

[foilist13]

Idiot.

[foilist13]

If Blackberry is an alien then I think it's pretty safe that Titus is an alien as well. Creating an argument between them such that we are inclined to take sides would be an excellent strategy for scum. Going with this assumption, my team would be myself, Misty, and Mastin.

The alternate scenario for me, or rather the one I'm more inclined to believe, is that Misty or Mastin or both scooted by and got on the team without doing much. I'm still more inclined to think Blackberry is town despite his fuck up based on his play (note that the team I listed above would

not

be my immediate choice unless I heard a compelling case for why Blackberry is especially scummy). Based on what just happened I might actually take Titus and Blackberry. They're at each others' throats, but that seems more optimal play for town than scum. Lurking seems especially sneaky with these rules.

[foilist13]

btw, Blackberry, Titus and I can't both be scum anymore. Evaluate.

[foilist13]

All we learned from the mission we just sent is that Titus and I cannot both be scum. That is very little to go on, but when we all joined the game I think we came in with mafia mentalities of gauging flips and gathering information from them. The point really needs to be pressed home that there is zero advantage to anyone who elects not to go on a mission, BUT there is one exception. If we want to test a specific scum team and have a real good reason for doing so, leaving two people behind will tell us for sure that they are not a scum team together. We have three missions left. I feel increasingly confident in Blackberry and less in Titus. Shouting "scumclaim" doesn't sound at all like behavior between scum partners, so at this point I'm going to say they're both town or Titus is scum. Misty and Mastin are evenly in a grey area for me.

@Misty: I voted to go on the mission. I would do it again. He betrayed me and fucked up the mission so I called him an idiot. I don't know that we would have won otherwise, but I sure as hell knew we wouldn't when he called the game won based on a false scumread on me.

@Titus: You're not obvtown. If you're scum then there's something to be gained by squeezing Blackberry and stealing focus, so your partner is probably slipping by somewhere. On that note I'd really love it if Mastin posted.

[foilist13]

Vote: Blackberry Captain

I have no feelings about walls one way or the other.

As I was reading I was planning on launching into a discussion of what the winning wagon would have to look like. It certainly would NOT look like a mutual agreement of all five players, or anything close to it. It would be a brutal brutal fight as the two scum being left out desperately tried to get on the mission or get on A mission. That's more or less what this looks like, though the brutality is less than I expected.

@Misty (totally keeping the "y" in your name): Assuming we do not succeed here, explain your thoughts behind a wagon including you, myself, and Titus. What would that yield, and why is it apparently equivalent to the exact opposite wagon for you?

[foilist13]

Never mind, I got those mixed up. You suggested you, me, and BB OR you, Mastin, Titus. Explain those perfectly divergent wagons plz.

[foilist13]

I have misgivings about misty and slight misgivings about Mastin, so between the two I would prefer to take Mastin.

Mastin's last post was not the powerhouse town demand to be on the wagon I was hoping for, I was actually a little let down at how wishy washy it is. 90% sure? It's you or Misty, you should be 100% sure, unless you're expressing doubts about myself or Blackberry, but you just spent the whole post expressly not doing that. It may be a little nit picky, but that post just felt... weak.

Misty on the other hand I have a larger issue with which I phrased as a question above. Why on earth would the two exact opposite wagons for you be presented with equivalence? That betrays no suspicions at all, a distinctly non-town perspective.

[foilist13]

Mist7676: Respond.

[foilist13]

Mist can you elaborate on your reason for not wantin me on the mission and further elaborate as to why you would think Titus is town.

I don't want you on a mission because you have a specific plan you want to set out for Day 3 and I respect that, and I want to let you do your thing, have fun with that. You are right, if you are scum, you are making it that much easier for us to win.

And I never said Titus was town, just that I'd take her on a mission. For what reason? I don't know, she's actively doing things? Maybe reward that with some mission? We really don't get that many chances or lee-way with this decision. It's 3 out of 5 people. I don't see how we are able to determine any type of alignment without trying to send a few people first.

The only way to get any type of information in this game is missions. There is no flip, the only associations we can really nit pick are mission attendees. Like, who the captain picks, right? I don't see why we are stalling this. 1 person doesn't want to go on a mission, so we literally just have to pick one more person not to go. The leader is obsolete because no Technician or Alien would go against who everyone agrees to send

on the first day.

This post is the worst example of the "just send someone" attitude that I think betrays scum in this rule set. We've all established since this post that sending teams for information is nearly always bad play.

The bolded is a blatant attempt to push a mission through while

concealing

information. "There's no info to be had, so let's just send someone!" is just the same as someone in a group new to mafia saying "There's no information to be had, so let's just lynch someone!" Doesn't sound very town, does it? Of course that mission would fail, and then Misty could point out all kinds of suspicions and things to get a pass for scum to go on future missions.

Second, notice the treatment of Titus. "Just send her, what's the worst that could happen?" The last two sentences are in themselves contradictory. "There's no lee-way, we only get a couple shots at this... (said the grim sci-fi technician while the other characters in the movie nod equally grimly). So I say we take a whirl with... oh, I don't know, Titus maybe? I mean it's no big deal if we send Titus, right?" Now imagine sci-fi Titus in a technician suit with grimy makeup grinning real big with a thumbs up and winking at Misty.

[foilist13]

I would have listened to you, Titus, if you had been at all coherent.

[foilist13]

Ok, we're coming up on the wire here. I think it's time to stop voting for town and start scum hunting. Specifically we need everyone to pick out their top scum TEAM. We have two missions left, and we should use this one more deliberately to test a specific scum team. We've been playing to win every round, which of course we should, but we've done it so gung ho that we're failing to plan for later rounds. This time must be done with preparation for a final round.

So, Titus and I cannot be a team, and Misty and Titus cannot be a team. BUT, these are not strict binaries. There is nothing to say that both players in each pair are not town.

First team: Blackberry (captain), Mist, and Mastin. Second team: Blackberry (captain), foilist13, and and Mastin.

Based on the above, for Mist and Blackberry to BOTH be town, the scum team would have to be myself and Mist. I'm obviously not voting for that, so there is (at least) one scum between Blackberry and Mastin. So, from my perspective there are three options and two chances to get it right. The scum team is either Mastin/Titus, Blackberry/Titus, or Blackberry/Mastin. I suppose it could also be Blackberry/Mist or Mist/Mastin, but that last one especially strikes me as unlikely.

I still have to think through this, but for right now my top scum teams are

Mastin/Titus, implying a mission of foilist13, Blackberry, and Mist

Blackberry/Titus, implying a mission of foilist13, Mastin, and Mist

or my last choice, Blackberry/Mastin, implying a mission of foilist13, Titus, and Mist.


I'm really struggling with the idea that Blackberry is scum (reeeeeaaaally struggling), BUT we've all seen even more spectacular scum plays in the past, so I'm more inclined to revisit a Blackberry/Titus scum team. First of all, Blackberry has been on every mission (all 2 lol). Titus has been on none. There is no night talking in this game, but they know each other and could easily have planned a strategy beforehand. Banging the two against each other would be a great way to get us to send

one or the other

on every mission and keep them in our heads as opposing alignments. Blackberry/mastin seems less likely to me just because Blackberry's play as an active scumhunter (assuming scum) would lead him to attack mastin more as his scum buddy to distance. Creating an ostensible conflict between the scum partners just seems like better play.

Mist7676: I would very much like you to explain why yesterday you proposed the two exact opposite wagons (from your own perspective) in the same post and your reasoning behind it. By POE you're mostly making my town list though.

Mastin: Just... so much weak sauce. I don't mean that to be offensive, but there's no teeth at all in your posting. Can you link me to a past town game to show me your general writing style? I don't want to jump on you for that reason if it's how you always sound.

[foilist13]

My bad, I mixed up Mist and Mastin (sorry, they sound similar). Should read: For MASTIN and blackberry to BOTH be town, the scum team would have to be myself and Mist.

[foilist13]

Blackberry, where is your confidence? You were ready to go with first shot you, me, mastin and second shot you, me, mist. The first one failed and now you have no idea? Is the game really so turned upside down for you?

[foilist13]

Looking forward to seeing what you have on Titus. I wish you didn't feel defeated. The game is getting fun now.

Mastin: Blackberry/Mist just feels wrong to me. The way they've interacted with each other does not strike me as scum partners play acting. They call each other out when they don't really have to, but are not at each other's throats. I know that sentence is at times descriptive of scum play, but I'm just not seeing it here. To add to this, Mist is mostly on my town list.

Mist/Mastin is weird for me because neither of you have really thrown down to have an impact on the game. Some players may lurk for the benefit of their team, but especially in a small game like this I would have a hard time believing that both scum players could shelve their egos enough to just slip by and hope the town lets them tag along. Titus lost her shit and started doing eye rolls and shouting "scum claim!" and Blackberry took the lead hard on the first two missions. Coming into an original game on mafiascum, most of us being veritable relics in terms of years on the site (especially Blackberry, or should I say Old and Grey Berry), I can't see the scum teaming just laying low the way both of you generally have. Yes you're posting, yes you're active, but the flavor of both your posts together does not scream a team trying to win as scum.

If elected Captain I will first be taking myself, Blackberry, and Mist. If that doesn't work then our Hail Mary would be myself, Mastin, and Mist, calling out Titus and Blackberry as the stars scum team. That's my best shot at this game right now.

[foilist13]

Where the fuck is the activity???

Vote: foilist13 Captain

C'mon, les go

[foilist13]

We only have two and no one thinks you're town...

@Mist: I am happy to vote for you provided a mission including you me and Blackberry. I would be less inclined, but still persuadable to go on a mission with you, me, and Mastin.

[foilist13]

Reading the mod will get us nowhere. Bad Blackberry.

One of Mastin and BB is scum. Period. I think it's Mastin. I don't think it's BB. But, if I'm wrong I'm wrong and we'll switch it up tomorrow. BB AND Mastin seems unlikely, so if that's the winning team then gg.

That leaves ONE of Mist and Titus (from my perspective). I think it's Titus. I don't think it's Mist.

So,

the only people I need to convince right now are BB and Mist.

@BB: You, Mastin, and Titus is not a winning combo, but if you no longer trust me after this mission then do what you feel you have to. I suggest we go with my play of you, me, and Mist today.

@Misty: Can you reiterate why you feel Mastin is more likely to be town than BB?

[foilist13]

Bad Blackberry.

[foilist13]

Miiiiiiiiiiiiisty, can you answer my question above? I mean, I obviously can't be 100% that this mission isn't going to work, but c'mon. You need my vote if we're the one's going, so at least throw me a bone trying to sell me on it or respond to my concerns, or something.

[foilist13]

Ok, fine. I'll even vote for the mission that confirms Mastin scum. Who wants to lead it?

[foilist13]

I honestly thought Misty was what I was corrected to. My bad on that one.

Now for fuck's sake respond to even one thing I've said this entire game. I'm pretty sure this is the third time I've made a point of calling you by the right name an yet you continue to ignore me. It's obnoxious. Again, I'm sorry I fucked up your name, but I'm not even the only one.

[foilist13]

Alright alright, this was my second choice anyway.

Vote: Mist

[foilist13]

POE. Titus is pretty solidly scum for me. Dragging her feet and trolling can only help scum. Mist has only been on the one mission. You and Mastin have been on both, so it's either you and Titus or Mastin and Titus. I think you're more likely to be town than Mastin, but it's 50/50 for me, so I may as well eliminate this possibility if that's all I can get from the town.

Titus posted while I was writing this, so I'll take a moment to point out the blatant sheeping.

[foilist13]

ISO yourself. There's nothing to read. Any arguments you put forward are a sentence at most.

Tunneling you would be talking about you and no one else. I have talked about everyone but you because the only scenario in which I see you as town is on a team with Blackberry and myself. I've already talked about why I think that's unlikely and given ample reason for all of the stances I've taken. Fuck your "foil isn't scumhunting."

[foilist13]

I have too much work to be playing Mafia right now, but I'm dropping by so no one thinks I'm dead.

@BB: I am only too happy to take you, me, and Mist. That's my first choice. Mist made it explicit I wasn't going to get that, so I went with my second choice. Now you too are giving me the "my way or the highway" treatment and it's obnoxious. If you're scum, you're scum with Titus. Other pairings don't make sense with your play. If you're town, then from my perspective Mastin is confirmed scum. If Mastin is town then you're confirmed scum. That yields Mastin-Titus scum team, BB-Titus scum team, or one of you with Mist, but I'm not inclined to think Mist is scum nor am I inclined to think you are scum. So, first choice, BB, foilist, Mist, second choice, foilist, Mist, Mastin. Done. I will vote for no other missions as of now.

Also, you know Titus the best. Explain her play in town terms please.

[foilist13]

The other option is a Blackberry/Mastin scum team, meaning a foilist, Titus, and Mist town team, but I find that hard to believe and impossible to get this town to vote for, so if y'all are the scum team then gg.

[foilist13]

Wait, why is Titus confirmed town exactly? She and Mastin are still a viable combo, especially since Mastin has been on every single mission.

[foilist13]

No. Fuck you. Mastin/Titus scum team like I've been saying for what feels like weeks real time.

Called it.

Cheers.

[foilist13]

This is probably the third time you've brought that up and I've responded to it each time. "I wonder why?" is either an admission you haven't been reading the thread or blatant trolling.

Let me respond to it again.

I posted what I thought going into night 1. Then I changed my mind. Why did I change my mind? Because you are the most worthless player in this thread. So far I have blackberry's word that you do indeed try elsewhere, but you have no tried here. You put in no effort. You ignore what players ask of you and their responses to your questions. You are blatantly anti-town. There is no justification for it. It is not acceptable. It only makes a glimmer of sense from a scum mindset. You polarize the thread and throw us off your partner.

Now, for some fucking reason, you seem to have town credit which seems mostly manufactured by yourself and Mastin. Hey! Look'a there, my number 1 scum team. The only thing that casts any doubt in my mind is that with the town credit you have failed to post better or work harder. A scum in your position might capitalize on it more to take more control of the game, but the fact that you're not doing that means to me that you think you have the game pretty well in the bag, and you probably do.

What are the common denominators in this game? Mastin goes on every mission. Titus trolls. They're all set to go on another one, even taking Titus this time, so why bother changing up their play?

Again, Blackberry, I would like you to explain Titus's play from a town perspective. Does she sound like the town player you've played with before?

[foilist13]

Vote: Blackberry

[foilist13]

Read the thread dear. I didn't feel I needed to say much else after your last post and my exchange with Titus. This is the most emphatic statement of my position.

[foilist13]

I'm still confused why anyone would think that. Via pure math you're probtown. I'm struggling to see the scenario by which you're conftown.

[foilist13]

1) The game doesn't auto end in any scenario. That isn't in the rules. Discussion of auto ending confuses me.

2) Mastin, you're stupid.

3) Blackberry, answer my God damn question.

4) Mist - Quick hammering does not work in this game. It is not a consideration. The captain ends the game, not the mod. Even if I "quick captained" blackberry, or my theoretical scum partner did that, it would just leave us with Blackberry and his decision making. He's shown before that he's not willing to commit to a mission immediately. There isn't a fear of that in any scenario, so Blackberry being somehow a "safe" vote for me in that sense is meaningless. I voted Blackberry because I don't think I have the town cred to be captian and he's my strongest town read. I also did it in response to his post. I also trust him more than you to crack the game.

5) Titus is only conftown to her scum partner. The only person upset that I am debating conftown status is her scum partner. Conftown status is worth debating because it is an absolute. It negates all other arguments. Obviously, since Titus is scum, we can't have that. Titus hasn't been on a mission, everyone else has and we keep losing, so at least one scum has been on every mission. That would be Mastin.

[foilist13]

...maybe I'm confused. How are you confirmed town to me? Why couldn't it be you and Mist?

That said, I'm pretty sure it isn't you and Mist, I'm pretty sure it's Mastin and Titus.

And yes, stupid. Exclaiming that I had scumclaimed was stupid. I don't know if Mastin is stupid in general, but that post was stupid.

[foilist13]

That's an excellent point lol, never mind. Hi townie!

[foilist13]

Ok, I'm stupid too.

[foilist13]

<3

[foilist13]

Does anyone else feel like Titus has zero preference between Mist and Blackberry?

Because... maybe... it doesn't matter to her? o.0

[foilist13]

Foilist is posting just to post

[foilist13]

Foilist is sad about lack of activity

[foilist13]

I'm just going to throw down now that I called this game on Day 2. I will be bringing this up in trash talk post game.

Titus/Mastin scum team.

Blackberry, we've considered my proposal already two missions ago. You were leaning towards it but made it your second choice. When your first choice failed, you suddenly "didn't understand the game anymore," and my proposal was thrown out. I'm really not sure what to say to you to convince you that hasn't been said already. Read how they're playing right now. They're going for anything they can get, pressuring people to vote, expressing few preferences about who actually gets left behind aside from me because I am the only one who has Mastina as confscum. Mastina has been on EVERY MISSION. She's the reason they all failed.

I trust you Blackberry. You're delicious and full of antioxidants. Bring us home.

[foilist13]

God dammit Blackberry.

So you and Mastina. Motherfucker.

[foilist13]

I revoke what I said about you being delicious -_-

[foilist13]

Blackberry, you're an idiot.

GG to the scum then.

[foilist13]

I'm going to forgo the actual trash talk and just end with three things. 1) This was fun,

/pre in

2) CALLED IT 3) god dammit blackberry. You were the chosen one!