Micro 901 | Penguin Mafia, The Third | Endgame

[eth0s]

second

[eth0s]

VOTE: amrun who are you?

[eth0s]

VOTE: amrun who are you?

VOTE: ethos

unvote me right this instant

[eth0s]

VOTE: amrun who are you?

VOTE: ethos

unvote me right this instant

[eth0s]

Done. Unvote me

now

[eth0s]

VOTE: gamma

[eth0s]

hmmmm looks like I irritated you a bit there
95-96 were posted in 9:04,9:06
97 in 9:23
98 in 9:31

hurrr
VOTE: Robbnva

What relevance does this have? I think it was good posting and good insight by robbnva and it's pretty shitty of you to just stomp all over it and act like any of it was scum indicative.

[eth0s]

Shos weirdly picking me at random to be "reaction test"-ed and then never following up on it was weird. Then the way that he jumped on robbnva felt unnatural and mechanical. I think occam's razor says the whole thing is scum motivated and people are overthinking it

VOTE: shos

[eth0s]

hmmmm looks like I irritated you a bit there
95-96 were posted in 9:04,9:06
97 in 9:23
98 in 9:31

hurrr
VOTE: Robbnva

What relevance does this have? I think it was good posting and good insight by robbnva and it's pretty shitty of you to just stomp all over it and act like any of it was scum indicative.

the relevance is that the whole idea was generating content which will lead us out of RVS. Then Robb started acting up under the pressure, so I added pressure on top to see what happens. The result was a huge number of posts in varying times by Robb who I think is scum caught for the wrong reason.

Shos weirdly picking me at random to be "reaction test"-ed and then never following up on it was weird. Then the way that he jumped on robbnva felt unnatural and mechanical. I think occam's razor says the whole thing is scum motivated and people are overthinking it

VOTE: shos

And again, you were a random pick to start up conversation, don't feel special. Enough reactions were provided by others so no reason to specially pick YOU. How on Earth is that Occam's razor

1. I think if you do just a little bit of meta diving you will see that's nai for robb. I know he's changing his play a bit but until there's enough of s sample rate to see if his meta changes it's pretty safe to assume you didn't uncover anything due to posting times...

2. I dont understand half of your second response and honestly I dont care about it.

It looks like YOU are the one acting up under pressure. Accusing scum!Robb for posting schedule and then "going to bed" (truth or not, doesnt matter) in the midst of conversation, while having pending questions/accusations at you (as long as memory serves me correctly) -- it doesnt look good.

Maybe it's robb's recent attitude change that's making me feel so strongly about this, but he's my top TR seeing the way he handled the situation so far.

Shos just looks like scum trying to look productive and clinging onto whatever reason he can to attack.

I'm fine with my vote.

[eth0s]

As said before I feel confident in Robb as town, I keep going back and forth on Shos though.

Can you explain your thought process a bit? Why back and forth?

[eth0s]

@power27 what is your prior mafia experience? Looking at your ISO I'm getting the sense that you're new to the site but not forum mafia?

[eth0s]

My working idea is that scum is in gamma/pyrrha. town!gamma could have given scum!pyrrha a free pass to "accident hammer" for towncred by not declaring L-1. or scum!gamma could have not declared L-1 in hopes of a fast hammer to both end the day quickly and buy himself towncred. The former seems much more likely at a glance.

[eth0s]

My working idea is that scum is in gamma/pyrrha. town!gamma could have given scum!pyrrha a free pass to "accident hammer" for towncred by not declaring L-1. or scum!gamma could have not declared L-1 in hopes of a fast hammer to both end the day quickly and buy himself towncred. The former seems much more likely at a glance.

Or there was a VC at the top of the page so anyone who did hammer would have no excuse to not realize what they were doing you pistachio

oh so you should have known you were putting him to L-1 then?

[eth0s]

these last few pages suck and amrun never gets lynched today

[eth0s]

His reactions look genuine and considering he was misrepped multiple times I think he's handled it well. I think that it's quite likely that pyrrha or gamma is scum here and he seems to agree, and I side with him 100% on the argument of how badly that hammer and EOD was handled. I honestly don't know what you're trying to prove by saying that you wouldn't have been surprised at all if shos flipped town given the fact that you quickhammered him with no claim or chance for town to discuss.

[eth0s]

these last few pages suck and amrun never gets lynched today

You don’t get to say who does and doesn’t get lynched. He got caught in a lie. While I don’t get to say who gets lynched either, I’m basically the only clear and I think that should hold some weight.

you're right, I don't get to pick. I'm just trying to keep things realistic because I don't see a scenario where he hangs today. I'd like to understand why you think he was caught in a lie because it pretty clearly looks like he wasn't.

[eth0s]

When I saw the flip, I was not thinking for even a single second, that anyone was going to wrongly sr me for lynching scum. Otoh had Shos flipped town, I 100% would not have been surprised by it in the least.

so this is you saying that you wouldn't have been surprised with a push on you if he flipped town? I thought you were saying you wouldn't have been surprised if he flipped town

[eth0s]

His reactions look genuine and considering he was misrepped multiple times I think he's handled it well. I think that it's quite likely that pyrrha or gamma is scum here and he seems to agree, and I side with him 100% on the argument of how badly that hammer and EOD was handled.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to prove by saying that you wouldn't have been surprised at all if shos flipped town

given the fact that you quickhammered him with no claim or chance for town to discuss.

Good, we can safely ignore your reads in that case then.

When did I ever say that? Find that quote.

For someone who is accusing others of misrepping, I can’t wait to hear your explanation for doing that to me.

@Ethos, I want to see that goddamned quote.

man you really need to chill out. After misrepping the absolute hell out of amrun I don't think you have the authority to be so demanding and demeaning to anyone

[eth0s]

His reactions look genuine and considering he was misrepped multiple times I think he's handled it well. I think that it's quite likely that pyrrha or gamma is scum here and he seems to agree, and I side with him 100% on the argument of how badly that hammer and EOD was handled. I honestly don't know what you're trying to prove by saying that you wouldn't have been surprised at all if shos flipped town given the fact that you quickhammered him with no claim or chance for town to discuss.

Good, we can safely ignore your reads in that case then.

you haven't provided even a sliver of insight this game so I'm glad the feeling is mutual. You're scum or badtown point blank. Heavily leaning scum

[eth0s]

VOTE: pyrrha

[eth0s]

I have no idea if they can be scum together. it’s not impossible. I’m not going to let pre-flip associations bias my reads.

For what it’s worth, I believe that

if Flicker flips scum

, shos is town.

@robb why are you deliberately ignoring the underlined part of this quote? what good does it do to try and say his conditional read is the same as an outright, standalone townread?

[eth0s]

Bad vote.

I’m not surprised seeing it’s coming from Ethos.

you can keep up the personal attacks all you want. doesn't change the fact that your play is scum or badtown.

[eth0s]

We aren’t lynching on the wagon. That is one thing I will not allow today

You don’t get to say who does and doesn’t get lynched.

[eth0s]

Bad vote.

I’m not surprised seeing it’s coming from Ethos.

you can keep up the personal attacks all you want. doesn't change the fact that your play is scum or badtown.

I will because I won’t allow you to either mislynch me or anyone I tr because you can’t get beyond superficial 0 reads.

well my votes on you. Probably gonna stay on you. attacking my character does absolutely 0 in the way of changing that.

[eth0s]

We aren’t lynching on the wagon. That is one thing I will not allow today

You don’t get to say who does and doesn’t get lynched.

Trust me. You don’t want to anger me. Nobody on shos’s lynch is hanging today. TRUST ME you don’t want to anger me.

robb I truly do not give a shit. I'm voting pyrrha and you can't do anything about that.

[eth0s]

pyrrha and robb can be as dense and toxic as they want. fuck this game I will prodge until she hangs

[eth0s]

Your behavior is mean, bratty and reads like scum throwing a fit because they thought they were going to be soooo townread for their buddy hammer.

Ethos, don’t give up. Sanity is still here.

thank you.

[eth0s]

Also, L-1s can turn around but any somewhat competent player could see shos was doomed unless he had a spectacular claim. There was still more town could have gotten out of the day. Ending it prematurely was clearly anti town.

P-edit: cool it with the threats, please.

Why are you still voting me if you’re town? Ethos is just bad but what’s your excuse?

Because I think you’re scum, and if you’re not, you’re playing is bad for the town either way. Your behavior is mean, bratty and reads like scum throwing a fit because they thought they were going to be soooo townread for their buddy hammer.

Ethos, don’t give up. Sanity is still here.

P-edit: that’s not true, Robb. Scum bus all the time, especially in that situation.

You’re once again - I’m starting to think, intentionally? - misreading me. I said I didn’t expect to be sr not that I was looking to be tr. But hell yeah I’m missed. I helped lynch scum and at least one WOAT who ought to know better is fucking sr me for it. Why tf wouldn’t I be pissed about that? Not that I’d be happy about it if he flipped town but at least I’d understand that rational people were wrongly sr me.

Why would you SAY that you expected to be town read? Especially if you are scum? That is insane.

I’m speculating on your motivation. Just because you didn’t explicitly stare that it was your motivation doesn’t mean it wasn’t.

Why are both you and Ethos continuing to misrep me? It’s getting annoying. I said I

didn’t expect to be sr for it

and I still don’t but I keep forgetting Ethos is in this game so. :/

And you have a helluva lot of nerve personally attacking me here. Apology redacted.

you're literally the most toxic person in this game

[eth0s]

I honestly don't want to play with pyrrha, that's where I'm at. this talking down on people and egotistical bullshit is stupid and I'm not having fun

[eth0s]

Added bonus that she's scum so lets lynch her and get this game over with thanks

[eth0s]

Yeah I'm not letting her bully me out of the game, that's a horrible precedent to set.

[eth0s]

I am probably over reacting to Ethos

but he more than anyone should 100% not be sr me for that.

make up your mind. am I bad or not?

[eth0s]

His reactions look genuine and considering he was misrepped multiple times I think he's handled it well. I think that it's quite likely that pyrrha or gamma is scum here and he seems to agree, and I side with him 100% on the argument of how badly that hammer and EOD was handled.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to prove by saying that you wouldn't have been surprised at all if shos flipped town

given the fact that you quickhammered him with no claim or chance for town to discuss.

Good, we can safely ignore your reads in that case then.

When did I ever say that? Find that quote.

For someone who is accusing others of misrepping, I can’t wait to hear your explanation for doing that to me.

@Ethos, I want to see that goddamned quote.

I’m still waiting. Where is it or are you really okay with misrepping me here?

I truly don't know what to say to you anymore. Selective reading at it's finest.

When I saw the flip, I was not thinking for even a single second, that anyone was going to wrongly sr me for lynching scum. Otoh had Shos flipped town, I 100% would not have been surprised by it in the least.

so this is you saying that you wouldn't have been surprised with a push on you if he flipped town? I thought you were saying you wouldn't have been surprised if he flipped town

[eth0s]

I honestly don't want to play with pyrrha, that's where I'm at. this talking down on people and egotistical bullshit is stupid and I'm not having fun

Added bonus that she's scum so lets lynch her and get this game over with thanks

You don’t like me but how does that make me scum?

And yeah, you will be apologizing to me but I’m not sure rn whether or not I will accept it.

And it would be really nice if for once, you stopped gamethrowing but I won’t be holding my breath on that. :

you keep making implications that break site rules, and keep making personal attacks that also break site rules. How about you simmer down and accept your loss?

[eth0s]

@Ethos, I’m genuinely sorry if I upset you. I know I was a little over the top, however if you’re going to persist scumlocking people based primarily on superficial reasoning, despite everything in their ISO practically screaming town at you at a more nuanced level well you should expect people to be legit frustrated with you for digging your head in the sand and refusing to look deeper and if you seriously think, this is how scum!me plays - either the hammer or my reaction to your derp push, then you seriously need to revaluate how you make reads.

I think you assume everyone plays and thinks like you when they don't. If you keep making those assumptions it will probably continue to lead to situations where apologies are in order and that makes me very cautious to accept yours (if you can really call that an apology... you continue to criticize me, but at least it seems like you're trying to be constructive which I appreciate). Just keep it to this game and about gameplay and it's fine. I have legitimate reasons to scumread you and whether you like it or not that's a stance I will hold until you flip or I find reasons to change my mind.

[eth0s]

I just realized amrun is a she. Sorry if I referred to you incorrectly.

Gonna do a bit of re-reading tomorrow. I particularly want stronger reads on power and drew. Gamma I'm liking a bit more with recent posting.

@gamma I recall you saying I felt "invisible" or something. not really sure what you mean? Or was that about pyrrha's stance on me solely?

[eth0s]

I really am trying to be interested in this game and get past the emotional situation going on but being constantly painted as an aggressor when that couldn't be further from the truth is taking an emotional toll on me.

[eth0s]

I really am trying to be interested in this game and get past the emotional situation going on but being constantly painted as an aggressor when that couldn't be further from the truth is taking an emotional toll on me.

He’s requested replacement so can you tell me which one of amrun and power you want to lynch and why?

I didn't notice that. I'll answer the second question later but I doubt you'll like the answer

[eth0s]

I feel very conflicted right now because 520 actually makes sense but I don't know if it's enough to persuade me on amrun. I need to think about it.

I'd really, REALLY like to hear from PN's replacement before a hammer though.

[eth0s]

Amrun's posting is so genuine and she handled this phase well and kept me safe when I didnt want to play anymore and I dont want to believe she is scum

[eth0s]

Kept me sane*

[eth0s]

god dammit dann pointed out something I wanted to say before I could. I'll expand on that and other things later tonight when I have more time. I think I'm okay with lynching gamma. Maybe power instead but I need to re-read a lil. I'm stupid paranoid of dann for what little I know about his reputation and the fact he has PN's slot...

Dann, why did you want to join this game?

[eth0s]

Dann, why did you want to join this game?

I was itching to play some mafia and loosely following this game. I was also very sure that Pyrrha was a town slot. I'm willing to explain why I thought that but it might not be particularly useful coming from me.

I would actually be quite interested to hear this

If you have paranoia about me regarding my play coming in here and if there's anything specific I can address also I'm happy to do that.

That's the problem.. it looks very townie and good at that. But I did not think your pred was townie. And I've heard wolfy things about you.

personally I think my "reputation" is more of a meme and a bit overblown but w/e

Maybe, I wouldn't know. Idt we've ever completed a game together. Just know that I can be extremely paranoid when it comes to capable players replacing into a slot that I'm suspicious of. Definitely to a fault sometimes. If you want, I can provide a link to a game where RC replaced into a town slot and I basically started a massive shitshow. I really don't want a repeat of that situation I'm just letting you know it will actually be hard AF for me to not look at your content through scum tinted lenses

The only thing I know about Dann is he was nominated for a deep wolf type of title.

same

However, I think there’s very little scum motivation to come in and defend me so strongly at this juncture. I was prime lynchbait material.

THE ONLY possible scum benefit is for 3p LyLo. I risk being pocketed, but the chance that this slot is scum has decreased for me by a lot.

This is literally the only thing keeping me from doing with dann what I would normally do in this position. PN was at basiclaly no risk of lynch today, I think. Maybe tomorrow if a town!amrun flip happened that would change things which keeps me somewhat skeptical but I have a feeling he could get himself out of that if he went the route of sticking on amrun.

I’m not clear where we are sitting on votes at the moment but I think a gamma lynch is decent for the day.

This is my color. I do not like sharing. You can have orange.
-PP

[eth0s]

Oh fuck me. Did I use mod color?

@penguin

sorry if I did

p-edit:
@dann gotta run now for real, I'll get back to you on that. I think I can dig it though.

[eth0s]

I lied about posting good content tonight, it will come tomorrow

[eth0s]

alright lets crack some eggs

[eth0s]

ignore this post, it's for me

Spoiler: reminders

As said before I feel confident in Robb as town, I keep going back and forth on Shos though.

Can you explain your thought process a bit? Why back and forth?

@power27 what is your prior mafia experience? Looking at your ISO I'm getting the sense that you're new to the site but not forum mafia?

Gonna do a bit of re-reading tomorrow. I particularly want stronger reads on power and drew. Gamma I'm liking a bit more with recent posting.

I really am trying to be interested in this game and get past the emotional situation going on but being constantly painted as an aggressor when that couldn't be further from the truth is taking an emotional toll on me.

He’s requested replacement so can you tell me which one of amrun and power you want to lynch and why?

I didn't notice that. I'll answer the second question later but I doubt you'll like the answer

I feel very conflicted right now because 520 actually makes sense but I don't know if it's enough to persuade me on amrun. I need to think about it.

god dammit dann pointed out something I wanted to say before I could. [...] I think I'm okay with lynching gamma. Maybe power instead but I need to re-read a lil. I'm stupid paranoid of dann for what little I know about his reputation and the fact he has PN's slot...

@dann gotta run now for real, I'll get back to you on that. I think I can dig it though.

[eth0s]

Doctor Drew

Shos is really really trying hard to paint Robb as scum.

VOTE: Shos

In isolation this probably doesn't come from a partner, and makes me feel good about drew. Sure, it was early in the phase, but "trying hard to paint Robb as scum" seems pretty damn heavy-handed for an early bus vote. There's plenty of other ways scum!him could have tried to fake an organic interaction with shos without stating his actions to be

that

scummy.

Why wasn’t this post accompanied by a flicker vote?

Cause I liked my shos vote better.

My initial thought is Shos is scum for his pressure on you.

Starting to doubt myself though, don't see scum in a micro game putting themselves out like that.

Last game I played with him he was a bit more subdued as scum.

Vote stays for now, need nature to take its course.

On the flip side this looks very bad in isolation (his ISO anyway). the waffley nature of the post is unsettling ("shos is really really trying hard to paint Robb as scum" to "don't see scum in a micro game putting themselves out like that" being such a quick change definitely pings me). However, if you look at the gamestate and what others were saying

between

these two posts, there's not a lot of reason at face value for him to change his stance if partners. It didn't necessarily look like traction was picking up much on shos in that timeframe, so drew weakening his own stance probably isn't scum indicative. The only thing I can think of that suggests this could be scum-indicative is the "I'm going to sleep in the middle of the conversation" hypocrisy stated by shos. If he started to feel heat, maybe he tells drew to let off a little in the PT. Especially if shos was previously, as drew stated, "a bit more subdued as scum".

But even if that was a good push, this is the equivalent to a newbie game. I’m pretty sure scum make pushes in newbie games. As scum you have to do things that people won’t think scum would do. You have to act in a way that people will town read you.

I get you, but Shos doesnt strike me as a player that can do this as scum. I feel they would be a bit more tepid about D1

At least wouldn't be as up front about it.

I'm just confused at the fast change of heart. Like I said, I only see one way it could be scum-indicative but his stance on what shos was doing changed so fast. I don't know drew's scum meta. I'm going to assume scum!him would be too self-aware to obviously waffle his stance on a partner so early in the game.

As said before I feel confident in Robb as town, I keep going back and forth on Shos though.

Can you explain your thought process a bit? Why back and forth?

I don't like their push on Robbvna, feels contrived......and after he mentioned the irritated think about Robb it was almost like he was playing to Robb's meta about being a bit of a hot head.....like trying to goat him into do doing something scummy that he could latch onto.

But.

That same tactict could get an emotional player to slip up if they were scum as well.

I still lean scum on Shos, but still trying to suss out the motivation.

however, the way he dissects shos' play and appears to be legitimately trying to sort out the motivation looks very townie. It's another high-risk statement if partners, IMO. Even mentioning the bit about robb and what looked like shos trying to bait him to do something... why would the two of them, if partners, be intent on ensuring that robb never unvotes shos? If you're unclear on what I mean here I can expand a bit but I'm not quite sure how to word it at the moment.

My working idea is that scum is in gamma/pyrrha. town!gamma could have given scum!pyrrha a free pass to "accident hammer" for towncred by not declaring L-1. or scum!gamma could have not declared L-1 in hopes of a fast hammer to both end the day quickly and buy himself towncred. The former seems much more likely at a glance.

I like this.

I am going to hold off voting Gamma for a bit though.

Or Pyryha for that matter.

I don't like the hesitance to vote but being so blatant about it kinda nullifies that?

some of the other stuff I don't wanna talk about for

reasons

.

verdict:

townread

[eth0s]

Power27

Also, why unvote Amrun?

It was an RVS vote, if I feel the need to I will vote him later if there is evidence.

@power27 what is your prior mafia experience? Looking at your ISO I'm getting the sense that you're new to the site but not forum mafia?

I've played 10 or so games on another site over the course of a couple years, along with some modding experience. On this site I played in one newbie game and then this.

I don't know what kind of meta exists on other sites, so maybe this is a bold assumption, but shouldn't power know that an RVS-unvote into non-vote is blatantly anti-town? This is why I asked the question in 207 about prior experience. My gut tells me that scum!power doesn't do this if that's a pretty web-universal meta thing.

On robb vs shos
It seems most likely town/town

maf/town or town/maf wouldn't work because scum wouldn't want to get into such a big argument, and they are both equally provoking the other

maf/maf is obviously not it why in the world would they be bussing so much

here's

where I have a problem. Shos came at robb's throat, so obviously at least one scum

did

want this big argument. If the day had gone totally differently and a scum!robb was lynched, this wouldn't look so bad, because robb was basically put on the defensive. Sure, he did his fair share of provoking, but he had to be provoked to get to that point. Again I am having trouble trying to articulate my feelings here, but the bottom line is that it makes sense for a shos buddy to take this stance, especially when it doesn't look clear at all that shos will actually be pushed to lynch.

Fwiw I tr amrun as well

without giving any reasoning this feels like a gotta-cover-my-ass TMI. amrun had been critical of power and then this comes outta nowhere.

On robb vs shos
It seems most likely town/town
maf/town or town/maf wouldn't work because scum wouldn't want to get into such a big argument, and they are both equally provoking the other
maf/maf is obviously not it why in the world would they be bussing so much

UNVOTE:

I really am getting strong town vibes from Robb.

agree

will post more soon

On robb vs shos
It seems most likely town/town
maf/town or town/maf wouldn't work because scum wouldn't want to get into such a big argument, and

they are both equally provoking the other

maf/maf is obviously not it why in the world would they be bussing so much

This is his only content (basically) and it stinks in light of the shos flip.

He was happy to soft support the flicker/Almost50 pressure I was putting on, but he tried pretty hard to sidestep truly commenting on shos itself. “Robb seems town” and “seems town/town interaction” stops short of saying “shos is town, so this lynch is bad.”

At the time it didn't make any sense for scum shos or robb to attack the other one as town so hard

Why would shos have pushed such a bad argument on robb, scum are usually more carefull

I don't remember softing support on flicker/a50?
Refresh my memory

I sr this because power is pushing the narrative that Robb and Shos are EQUALLY responsible but anyone clearly reading the game can see how ridiculous that is. Shos was insanely death tunneling Robb. How were you not seeing that, @power21?

I do apologize for posting something that wasn't 100% true
There were some posts of robbs that came off as provocative, although I couldn't find as many I as remembered re reading the other day.

I actually don't remember that pyrrha post but I like it. I think the implication power made about equal responsibility is what I was having trouble articulating. Power's response really gives me nothing to work with.

verdict:

scumlean

[eth0s]

@power27

(separating questions from analysis)

My readlist rn goes something like this
town
robb
amrun

dann

null
ethos
drew

gamma
scum

note that pyrah would have been much lower on the list than dann is, so far I like his posts more than pyrah's

can you specifically explain your thought process on reading pyrrha's slot and how that changed when dann replaced in?

Oh, sorry, I was using the wrong pronoun for Amrun. Apologies

I feel like mass claims in micro's can be really devastating for scum, especially with a D1 scum lynch.

I'm gonna mull it over a little more

so 9p game
would most likely get 2 or 3 town prs, with cop/tracker/rber/watcher/jker possibly able to determine alignments because only one scum left
which means optimistically getting 4 confirmed town out of a mass claim for a poe of 3 with 2 lynches to lylo
I'd be down for this

explain where you're getting this 4th confirmed town? I have 2 ideas but I want to know what you think.

[eth0s]

he did his fair share of provoking

okay provoking isn't the right word. But I made that pretty clear already even with the poor word choice

[eth0s]

does a deepwolf!dann later become apparent due to PoE?

[eth0s]

VOTE: power27

please answer my questions

L-2 I believe

[eth0s]

VOTE: power27

please answer my questions

L-2 I believe

I was wrong, power is L-1.

[eth0s]

Ethos, did you see my post?

672? Yeah, why?

[eth0s]

eth0s, what's your read on Gamma?

I pretty confidently feel that scum is between him and power. With Gamma I think a scum agenda is more clear than power, yet gamma has also made better points and more of an attempt at solving the game (at least via thread). I think his comments during shos v robb seemed like they were mostly there for looks, and if I understood him correctly, it seemed like he directly contradicted himself in regards to how robb's "staggered posting" made him feel. His lack of declaring L-1 (apparently a hot button?) didn't and still doesn't make me feel good. Don't love the stance on amrun, his original thoughts were okay and might be something to consider as PoE closes, but it seemed pretty opportunistic to vote when he did (reads as a potential pocket robb attempt). Putting me at null for "He hasn’t really done much I find AI rn" and having drew above me definitely doesn't make sense to me. Esp considering he's below robbnva because I would understand the placement if it were for

reasons

, but not if robb is townier than drew.

Why do you prefer power27 here?

that inference is a little bit off target. do you always view votes accompanied by requests as an indication of lynch preference?

[eth0s]

Ethos, did you see my post?

672? Yeah, why?

Because I asked what you thought about dann making it to endgame as scum.

oh I thought that was directed at everyone. I'm not usually one to line lynches up like that (which from my understanding is what you're saying with power/gamma) and there's way too many variables for me to try and look ahead like that. I did, however, put some thought into dann and I think that his alignment eventually would become apparent but I'm also v worried about him making it to a lylo that I'm not in. I don't mean that to be a dick, but I do like to maintain a certain amount of control in the game and I think if scum!him makes it to lylo it would probably take a guilty or equivalent to hang him depending on who he makes it to lylo with.

[eth0s]

Why do you prefer power27 here?

Dann, I changed my mind.

@power27

(separating questions from analysis)

My readlist rn goes something like this
town
robb
amrun

dann

null
ethos
drew

gamma
scum

note that pyrah would have been much lower on the list than dann is, so far I like his posts more than pyrah's

can you specifically explain your thought process on reading pyrrha's slot and how that changed when dann replaced in?

uh kind of forget why I was SRing pyrrha, I think tone and some of her logic had something to do with it
dann so far has been very helpful and towny, also what he had to say about pyrrha and her meta and stuff was good, although that has to be taken with a grain of salt.

also gamma ended up on the bottom mostly just by relative reads, would be fine with lynching anyone below null

Oh, sorry, I was using the wrong pronoun for Amrun. Apologies

I feel like mass claims in micro's can be really devastating for scum, especially with a D1 scum lynch.

I'm gonna mull it over a little more

so 9p game
would most likely get 2 or 3 town prs, with cop/tracker/rber/watcher/jker possibly able to determine alignments because only one scum left
which means optimistically getting 4 confirmed town out of a mass claim for a poe of 3 with 2 lynches to lylo
I'd be down for this

explain where you're getting this 4th confirmed town? I have 2 ideas but I want to know what you think.

no like confirmable towns from town prs and na results in the case of a mass claim

speaking of confirmable, would now be a good time for me to claim

this post stinks real bad. Will you hammer it if the claim isn't good reason not to?

[eth0s]

Ethos, did you see my post?

672? Yeah, why?

Because I asked what you thought about dann making it to endgame as scum.

oh I thought that was directed at everyone. I'm not usually one to line lynches up like that (which from my understanding is what you're saying with power/gamma) and there's way too many variables for me to try and look ahead like that. I did, however, put some thought into dann and I think that his alignment eventually would become apparent but I'm also v worried about him making it to a lylo that I'm not in. I don't mean that to be a dick, but I do like to maintain a certain amount of control in the game and I think if scum!him makes it to lylo it would probably take a guilty or equivalent to hang him depending on who he makes it to lylo with.

I did say that with the assumption that it was presumed that the lynch candidates / lynch order could change, dictated by gamestate, but, granted.

In your shoes, I understand this concern. I believe I will probably make it to LyLo due to lynch ability, if we get that far.

My main point I was trying to make is I’m ok not lynching him today and re-evaluating if slots I currently think have a higher chance of flipping scum (power, gamma) in fact flip town. I do not discount danscum but have decided it doesn’t matter this game day.

I have no disputes. I wasn't planning on pursuing dann today regardless. I actually forgot I was voting him until I voted power so maybe that was unclear

[eth0s]

that inference is a little bit off target. do you always view votes accompanied by requests as an indication of lynch preference?

When the vote is putting them at L-1, generally yeah. Mostly, I was curious on your Gamma read since it was the other leading wagon and you didn't really comment on it.

Fair enough. I thought it was L-2 at the time but I wanted answers and the answers are quite scummy. So it did become lynch preference.

[eth0s]

What do you find scummy specifically about the answers?

is that a trick question? Why do I feel like you're setting me up for some kind of gotcha moment?

[eth0s]

lol nope

I'm just curious what you see

okay

uh kind of forget why I was SRing pyrrha, I think tone and some of her logic had something to do with it
dann so far has been very helpful and towny, also what he had to say about pyrrha and her meta and stuff was good, although that has to be taken with a grain of salt.

also gamma ended up on the bottom mostly just by relative reads, would be fine with lynching anyone below null

The "forgetting" part could be too ballsy to be scum, maybe. But given their effort in the game so far I think it's pretty NAI for them. "tone and some of her logic" is incredibly vague. The comments on you are also vague, but more than that it seemingly implies that you being helpful and towny rectifies pyrrha completely?

Do I even need to talk about the readlist? I'd like for power to, but it also really doesn't matter if the answer is going to be on par with the ones in that post.

They've also effectively claimed VT/scum already.

[eth0s]

His lack of declaring L-1 (apparently a hot button?)

[eth0s]

Luckily I have the advantage of being an absolute moron so I can see why it was scummy even if you don't.

Plus it's just bad form. Why act like declaring L-1 is so difficult or has any drawbacks?

[eth0s]

robb do you still think gamma is a better lynch than power today

[eth0s]

This is wholesome

[eth0s]

VOTE: gamma

L-1

[eth0s]

I wholeheartedly believe that claim. Amrun would be an awful person to clear if scum.

[eth0s]

I think we're pretty much at a stand still until gamma claims

assuming scum isn't robb/power or a maf roleblocker I think it's literally impossible for them to win. would probably be impossible for scum!power to win after that claim though.

[eth0s]

You feel so strongly that you'd rather hang a tracker claim than Gamma?

[eth0s]

Robb you realized you just claimed?

I'm VT. Was against massclaim but no NK is very weird and I bet massclaim will explain that.

[eth0s]

My first thought was really angleshooty but it's basically DoA anyway so it's back to the drawing board.

[eth0s]

Well a scum roleblocker would have to choose between killing and RB. So it’s pretty solid.

Was multitasking ever explained?

[eth0s]

Hot take: someone forfeited a kill last night to waste the tracker shot and frame one of me/drew. Looks like it's working, too.

Although I do have to agree that drew's role is the least likely claimed PR to be town at this point so it could be as simple as drew committing no action to try and save himself. Still doesn't explain why he wouldn't neighbor someone though.

I can't really think of a reason for scum!power to pull this play.
I suppose it's possible that it's easier for him to fake results when there's not a kill, but given probabilities that sounds like a bad play to make.

Even if scum's intention wasn't solely to frame me/drew it could be a scum rolecop play in which they thought a result was more important than a kill. Normally that sounds dumb especially with 2 claimed PRs out there, but the fact that power openly stated they would be watching me/drew makes a frame job significantly more likely. Accounting for Dann's breadcrumbs it is also possible that scum caught onto this and it could have factored into a no-kill.

Tbh if power is town he screwed me/town!drew by declaring what he was going to last night. I would absolutely frame me/drew as scum because then one of us gets lynched and the other would kept alive tomorrow for a probable ML.

[eth0s]

if power didn't declare 2 shot or what he was going to do last night I think we would be at gamesolve.

I really don't think drew is scum given how easily a frame job was handed away.
I definitely don't think he saw the breadcrumb by dann because he would have neighbored him if so.

I understand if it comes down to lynching me today but please don't make the stupid mistake of lynching drew after me.

[eth0s]

Who is scum, eth0s?

Gun to my head it's power.

However, my current problem is that I see issues with anyone playing the way they did as scum.

Like with power, I had not earlier considered the possibility that scumtracker!him could commit a no-kill to not only frame me but search for another PR since there's no multitasking (I believe penguin said this? or am I imagining things?). Plus 3 TPRs in a 9p game seems way too saturated, so power being scum and looking for another TPR seems plausible. BUT why in the world would scum!power clear you? Towncred is unlikely since they could have picked, idk, robbnva for that since he's arguably been the least likely lynch all game, plus a kill was committed n1 which means that without multi tasking he would have to pull a clear on you out of his ass. Tomorrow I'm gonna look over your d1 play and see if you VT slipped, but I don't remember feeling that way before. So I have very conflicted feelings on power.

Drew not using his neighbor ability is definitely weird, but his provided reasoning is understandable so I still feel pretty good about him. Plus he would have to have been motivated or have a multitasking modifier to even neighbor and kill n1, which seems stupidly unlikely. If that's the case then oh well we lose.

On the subject of oh well we lose, Amrun is only scum if ninja (think that's the right word. The untracked people). I don't think this should be a serious consideration so I'm cool with you being town.

Dann is definitely on my radar now though. Are there more crumbs or did he conveniently decide not to make any until after proposing a massclaim and having a chance to gauge reactions? Out of all the PR claims so far, BG is probably the one least likely to be lynched as it's town only (i think?).He doesn't have to fake results or anything so it's easy to lie about. And I'm still weirded out that the crumbs seemingly started so late. Dann, please explain your reasoning for this or show me some earlier crumbs.

In addition to obvious reasons for why it's almost never scum!robb, I think that his play here would be out of his scumrange and the 1v1 with shos would be completely unnecessary or even detrimental. I would only even consider scum!him if it were LYLO.

[eth0s]

I don't know how to interpret eth0s implying that basically everyone is town?

I really don't like that this is all you have to say about my post.

[eth0s]

but scum could have tried to kill tracker and not worried about it

you could have neighborized anyone you wanted but didn't and the reason why is seriously the worst. We know you are legit neighborizer cause Gamma confirmed. So if you happened to neighbor the person who died, how can the tracker manipulate that?

have you considered that there's apparently no multi tasking? How does drew neighborize and kill A50 in the same night?

[eth0s]

I honestly believe you are scum and had a 1 shot multi tasking ability. Scum neighbirizer is very much a thing. Kill/Neighbor N1 and then kill the rest of the time claiming you were just 1 shot

oh. Disregard last post.

[eth0s]

Ya, that makes much more sense then I am just town neighborizer.

tracker/bodyguard/neighborizer in a 9P game seems like too much. Sometimes that is all town has in a 13P game

tell me what you think about my short feelings on dann.

[eth0s]

I actually town read Drew's kinda crazy babbling at the start of day here. I believe him when he says he just got excited, and I think his posts tonally read very pure. I town read the jumping around / uncertainty.

I don't town read eth0s coming in to today immediately declaring that there was some kind of setup. There's a lot of assumptions in that post (including that Drew is town), and it doesn't actually make a lot of sense.

I mean honestly, no NK doesn't make a lot of sense, and for good reason. It's basically never a good idea to do that. I sort of think the only reason it was done is because whoever did it thought that was the only possible chance they had at winning. The only person who would be in a position to try and "frame" drew/eth0s would be Robbnva and... he doesn't need to do that?

I'm inclined to lynch eth0s today.

how would you handle it differently in my shoes? If you know you aren't the killer and have pretty strong feelings that drew isn't either, wtf are you supposed to expect from a no nightkill? If anything this post from you just solidifies my bad feelings towards you. Saying that robb is the only one that could benefit from framing me is LAMIST AND hypocritical since you're basically assuming everyone else to be town which is what you literally just shaded me for. Elaborate on why what I said doesn't make sense instead of just stating that. I feel like you haven't considered my perspective in this situation at all and that worries me.

[eth0s]

I didn't like the tone of Ethos' last post, seemed a bit defeatist and I felt he was trying to buddy me a bit tbh.

Him begging for me not to be lynched and parroting my framing theory.

The wifom in making a 'lynch me if you must' post always seems so contrived. If you are actually town, scratch and claw to get your point across.

there's plenty of time to get a point across. And where did you suggest a frame before me? and if you really did then why does dann only have a problem with me saying it?? I'm not even begging for you to not be lynched I'm saying lynching BOTH of us is stupid. If you keep misrepping me I'll join robb on your wagon and you can see how chummy I really want to be with you.

[eth0s]

because if you think Dann is scum that means town has tracker/neighborizer for it's roles.

Drew wants you to believe we have tracker/neighborizer/bg for it's roles

I think we have tracker/BG for our roles.

I just finished a 9P normal game and town only had two roles. Vig and Friendly Neighbor.

I can actually see your theory - tracker/neighborizer but I can also see mine. I can't see Drew's though.

I agree that we should have 2 PRs. last scum would have to have some really good role/modifiers for it to be balanced with any more than that. But if your last completed game is the one cyrus modded it's probably not the best example to bring up for balance.

[eth0s]

I don't know how to interpret eth0s implying that basically everyone is town?

I really don't like that this is all you have to say about my post.

...what

...what else should I have to say about it?

idk you're typically very analytical and I figured me posting reads on everyone and sharing my perspective of the situation was something you'd either care to comment on or at least pick my brain about. Instead it just feels like you're shading me. Like you're implying that what I did was scummy but left yourself enough plausible deniability that you just "don't know what to make of it".


currently I'm more concerned about your crumbs, if any more exist, and why you would wait until you did to make any if there's not more. It feels really opportunistic the way that you've set yourself up with your claim.

[eth0s]

for Dann to be scum you have to think Pyrrah did all that noise as scum to distract from shos. I can actually see that. I mentioned that earlier.

I don't know that I considered her a "distraction" but I did have problems with the hammer. Tbh I don't really remember all the problems I had with pyrrha this game, stuff is all jumbled in my head bc I'm overgamed. I want to re-examine the situation with her though.

[eth0s]

I want this.

VOTE: dannflor

[eth0s]

If amrun is literally conftown why would you target robb instead? esp if you believed dann's bg claim obviously he would be on amrun and you could essentially conftown yourself.

I'm leaning scum!drew.

[eth0s]

I didn't fully believe his claim, meaning the conf town would be likely target.

And Dann is going to come in here and say he protected Amrun.

Robb is correct, there can't be this setup of town PRs(unless scum does have some sort of crazy modifiers).

If you don't fully believe his claim then why would amrun be the nk target... If amrun died last night we would obviously know it's scum dann because there's no good reason for him to protect anyone besides amrun.

[eth0s]

eth0s what made you go from me to drew?

Not neighboring amrun. Hell he could have neighbored me and it would be better than "neighboring" robb. robb is the obvious nk from anyone since killing me/you/amrun(presumably you instead) would leave 1 conftown and an all but conftown robb in the mix. unless we are living in a world where power lied or amrun is ninja. I'm not accepting those possibilities though. I never vote Amrun in this situation. Hell the only person that could even consider nk'ing me last night would be you and I still can't think of a reason you would do that other than WIFOM, which seems ballsy as hell. That being said, me not dying is still slight scumpoints to drew by poe unless he's multitasking (which doesn't make sense because he just neighbors amrun in that scenario and kills literally anyone else).

I think if he were really town his neighbor target would be alive today. Simple as that. However there are a few things off the top of my head that give me pause on drew which is why I said I'm leaning him rather than full on scumread:

1. lapse in judgement, or as your pred would say "badtown/WOAT"
2. somewhat of a supplement to #1, I have personally seen him do bad things as town in the past
Subject: Micro 883: A Year of Miccros - Game Over

Huh.....ok, seen enough.

VOTE: Espresso

Subject: Micro 883: A Year of Miccros - Game Over

Let me tell you guys a great and funny story about this guy, this is a doozy, this guy votes......wait for it, without even checking the vote count!

What a fucking idiot, who let that asshole in this game.

Heh........oh boy.

3. N1 he neighbored gamma and flicker died. A 1 shot of multitasking or whatever robb said is a stretch imo, because I've never heard of such a thing. Even if that's the case, why doesn't he save that one shot? unless it's like a night 1 only ability or something which just doesn't even make sense? I guess the logic is kind of recursive because if he can be badtown he can be badscum. But still, I personally see it as a massive fuck up to blow that on N1 unless his thought process is "town thinks there's no multitasking so I can conftown myself early". Yet I don't remember him ever suggesting he was town for the events of N1.

[eth0s]

This is fucking MyLo and this sucks.

I want to vote Dann but Drew probably needs to be the lynch today.

It is pretty obvious that scum would have to kill outside of me. Kill me, they actually just kill dann and confirm dannslot, and I’m still alive anyway.

With Robb essentially confirmed as well, this play makes sense from scum. And if dann is scum, he would want to play in a way to obfuscate that. The play is the same no matter who the scum is.


What doesn’t make sense is Drew’s play from town. This was extremely predictable set of actions, so to think Drew wouldn’t know that and go for Robb, very likely to eat a bullet, is meh AF.

The problem is that there are tons of times town makes stupid fucking plays.

Shit.

That's basically where I'm at. Let me know what you think about my reasons to hesitate on drew when you're around.

[eth0s]

And I didn't think things through with last night.

(1) I was truly buying Danns claim

, and again paranoia,

(2) though they would kill you(Amrun) to set me up.

what the fuck?

1.

I didn't fully believe his claim

2. amrun dies = dann scum...

[eth0s]

Robb made a good point that tracker/neighborizer/bodyguard is town sided.

Dann also was key in getting us to lynch the tracker.

Not voting till everyone is around, but I think it is Dann.

Drew, if you are actually town, you need to consider eth0s because I am not scum.

I am leaning that way tbh.

I either think you are brilliant scum(bravo if that is the case), or more likely are telling the truth. Like you said it would be difficult to weasel your way out of your claim.

Gut and emotions say it is Ethos.

But Dann, indulge me here, why are you nervous?

Drew please explain how your reads developed this way. You basically also said you'll sheep amrun (who stated you as a lynch pref followed by dann), yet you're saying I'm scum now? Why shouldn't I read this as flailing?

[eth0s]

Dann, if you're bg then surely you at least considered protecting robb at some point, right? It seems like everyone is pretty much in agreement that he has to be the kill last night since mechanically you should be on amrun. Assuming you're telling the truth, you protected amrun because I can be a wildcard and you thought I was scum. Correct?

[eth0s]

I know it's early to bring this up but I'm going to anyway.

Isn't no lynch 100% the right choice here?

Please, don't give me your thought process on this, don't tell me why, why not, any of that.

"Yes." "No." "Maybe, but not yet."

Those are the only answers I want.

[eth0s]

Ugh okay I wish I had asked amrun to provide her answer to 979 last and not stated what answer I wanted to hear. Sorry for fucking that up

[eth0s]

Amrun, thoughts?

This is fucking MyLo and this sucks.

I want to vote Dann but Drew probably needs to be the lynch today.

It is pretty obvious that scum would have to kill outside of me. Kill me, they actually just kill dann and confirm dannslot, and I’m still alive anyway.

With Robb essentially confirmed as well, this play makes sense from scum. And if dann is scum, he would want to play in a way to obfuscate that. The play is the same no matter who the scum is.


What doesn’t make sense is Drew’s play from town. This was extremely predictable set of actions, so to think Drew wouldn’t know that and go for Robb, very likely to eat a bullet, is meh AF.

The problem is that there are tons of times town makes stupid fucking plays.

Shit.

That's basically where I'm at. Let me know what you think about my reasons to hesitate on drew when you're around.

[eth0s]

Sorry. Got distracted.


I agree overall. Drew seems the type to drown in WIFOM. Plus, the night 1 flicker kill is REALLY important.

I wish I knew more about what type of player Pyyrah Nikos would be likely to NK. Or you.

I've never played with flicker. I played as town with A50 once in Black Versus White Mafia where I died pretty early on and then A50 let an obvscum Flavor Leaf (are you familiar with him? his name was Rick Dalton in that game) endgame us.

I also played with A50 (and scum Flavor Leaf again lol) in New Beginnings. Judge Joe Dredd = A50, Rick Dalton = Flavor Leaf, Cliff Booth = me. I pulled a really fucking bad gambit as simple loyal fruit vendor in that game and got A50 mislynched.

I think that's my history with him. That being said, I never thought about who I would kill if I were scum in this game. Robbnva had the most towncred from the shos situation, Drew probably came in second, so most likely one of those two unless I thought someone else crumbed PR or something. Some scum games I do go for "scariest scumhunter" over highest towncred, in which one may argue would land me on A50, but the way he self-voted in New Beginnings and generally handled FL in Black vs White didn't impress me.

Idk drew's or pyrrha/dann scum meta so I can't give any input there.

@dann can you post your slot's full action history?

[eth0s]

I've actually been of the opinion this entire game that the towncred from shos wagon wasn't that important. Idk if I already brought it up but the way that gamma and pyrrha let the day end out of nowhere means a town!pyrrha could have let a scum distancing vote on shos turn into a full on bus without the scum even intending it. FMPOV that leaves drew, or pyrrha just bussed. Without having history with scum!them idk who is more likely to bus there and how they would be positioned historically. FYPOV (amrun) that also leaves me in the mix with worse wagon positioning than drew. So take that as you will.

[eth0s]

That's what I'm saying though. Your voting him didn't necessarily have to be a bus, it could have been a distance vote gone bad from the quickhammer.

[eth0s]

It definitely looks like you considered unvoting him multiple times though. I've already stated how I felt in regards to your waffley nature on shos, and I can't help but wonder where your vote would have landed if not for gamma/pyrrha.

In retrospect though it really looks like pyrrha shut it down quickly without great reason to do so. Idk if pyrrha typically thinks quicklynching is a good idea but I haven't seen her do it in my games before. Dann's slot looks worse than you based on shos vca.

p-edit: you didn't have to "hard bus". Gamma and pyrrha shut the day down so quickly your vote could have been meant for distance and you didn't intend to see the lynch through.

[eth0s]

are you trolling me rn drew

[eth0s]

You really need to be more clear what you are talking about.

And yes, I took into consideration both sides of the argument. And when I did this it still came back as Shos as scum.

I never waffled.

I thought what I said was pretty clear but okay

[eth0s]

#1000

[eth0s]

Would a 1 shot multitasking modifier even be allowed in normal? Idk exact normal guidelines I just know some examples

[eth0s]

Oof. Immediately after that I remembered someone told me that 1 mon normal role is permitted in a normal game. But I also dont know if that's true or if game size is a factor there.

I hate trying to solve shit based on roles

[eth0s]

Non normal*

[eth0s]

It's also dawned on me that bg is a horrible fake claim bc it would essentially force dann to not kill the most obvtown player or he'd face intense scrutiny. I want to revisit the context of his claim when I'm back at my computer bc he would need to have a pretty solid agenda planned to pull that off. It's possible the game state permitted it though, that's why I would like to look back.

The more I keep overthinking the more I wonder if ninja amrun is actually the possible answer here... is there anything else that could mess up power's results?

[eth0s]

I think substituting a "strong mafia role" to balance against 3 pr with a "role that inherently counters 1 of the PRs (ninja v tracker)" would make sense as far as game balance goes.

[eth0s]

Every time I read eth0s I think the same thing, that he’s not shos partner. But I get stuck on the N1 flicker kill with Drew every time.


Eth0s, what’s your experience with A50?

988

[eth0s]

The only thing that's given me pause from eth0s is his whole "you guys tell me if no-lynching is something we should do or not" like that's some sort of test when that's not really a question that's answer is gonna be alignment indicative. The answer is just gonna show who is paying attention.

but I think the way eth0s framed it reads as if he was genuinely trying to get something productive out of it rather than just look productive

I don't think it ever would have produced anything telling, but I guess I come down on town reading it still

I had a very good reason for doing what I did. Not sure if it will help in the way I'd hoped for but I feel confident that it was a good topic to bring up.

[eth0s]

This is disheartening. I wish it were surprising but somehow I almost always manage to become the gut scumread from the scummiest slots in late game.

Like if I'm scum then you're either saying I'm a goon or did not commit an action the night that power said he was tracking me, which just doesn't make any fucking sense.

[eth0s]

This is disheartening. I wish it were surprising but somehow I almost always manage to become the gut scumread from the scummiest slots in late game.

Like if I'm scum then you're either saying I'm a goon or did not commit an action the night that power said he was tracking me, which just doesn't make any fucking sense.

What?

It makes perfect sense for you not to kill when the tracker said he might track you.

I'm saying how would scum be goon vs 3 pr? and if I'm scum and not goon then why wouldn't I commit a (non-killing) action even if tracker said he might track me?

better yet, why don't I just shoot the tracker if he claims to track me?

[eth0s]

eth0s, did you catch my crumb before I revealed it?

being honest

nope

VOTE: no lynch

[eth0s]

Amrun doesn't make that no kill. That's the only thing I feel confident about wrt this continued mylo.

[eth0s]

If drew was really 1 shot multitasking he can't kill without obvscuming himself, but if dann is scum it makes sense for him to nk to frame drew again.
So I don't think anything is really clearer for me.

[eth0s]

If drew was really 1 shot multitasking he can't kill without obvscuming himself, but if dann is scum it makes sense for him to

not

nk to frame drew again.
So I don't think anything is really clearer for me.

ebwop

[eth0s]

No killing increases the WIFOM, but increases townies alive, so it’s a tossup and probably not worth it.

I agree with parts of this post, but this part specifically I don't really understand. The remaining scum would benefit from mylo rather than lylo, but you significantly less so than anyone else. More townies = 1 extra townie, sure. But 1 extra townie = 1 extra mislynch possibility, higher overall odds of lynching a townie. The reason why this doesn't benefit scum!you is bc you're ninja and the only thing you have to gain is WIFOM since you're already the most confident TR any of us have. The numbers game doesn't really do much to help you as scum, because any night kill in {dann, drew, me} 99% turns into a 1v1 between the remaining two the next day. Scum you just makes the kill.

I think it's pretty damning that I've been left as (what feels like) the inevitable lynch without anyone even casing out motivation for why I would play this as scum. I'm just a lazy gut scumread from both drew and dann. But that's the problem, they're both doing it so it doesn't help me sort shit. Somehow scum!me against 3 PR is supposed to make more than you being ninja. And if it doesn't make more sense, neither one of them has bothered to explain how I could be a goon with those PRs, why pr!scum me doesn't commit some kind of non-killing action N3, or better yet, why I wouldn't just shoot power the night he said he might track me. Dann asks if I saw the crumbs before he pointed them out, which feels like a really lazy "gotcha" attempt on me and feels scummy. I don't think he expected a specific answer, but I really think he hoped I would say yes and then he'd start voting me. Not asking drew (as in asking me specifically) solidifies my feelings, and just looks like dann getting real snug in drew's pocket, especially given how they are both painting me scum in the most uninspired way.

Like occam's razor says drew cannot kill and neighbor so he is obvscum. But dann is also locked into killing amrun and being obvscum, killing one of {me, drew} and forcing a 1v1, or doing what he's been doing and relying on a townie eureka that doesn't land on scum him. Like I said, Amrun has the least clear motive for playing this way as scum, plus this does not at all look like her scum game in High Noon. So I'm willing to write her off as town.

Now if someone wants to explain how scum!me works in the context of game setup or motivation to omit NKs, please do. Because I'm tired of the lazy scumreads.

p-edit: oh look. another post calling me scummy that doesn't address any of this. Nice.

[eth0s]

eth0s saying "shos weirdly picking me at random to be "reaction test"-ed and then never following up on it was weird" shows that eth0s is aware of how weird it is, but I'm not sure how shos was supposed to follow up on a random reaction test? It reads to me like an empty statement to justify the vote on shos.

Well your slot killed off discussion rather quickly, and more than likely this would have been resolved had we followed standard claim procedure. Not only that but shos might've fake claimed PR which could have made this game significantly easier to solve, especially seeing reactions on it. So while it's not technically "your fault" that day 1 left us starved for associations, it is your slots fault, and feels incredible disingenuous for you to try and paint me as scum for pointing out scummy behavior and voting for it.

[eth0s]

I think this might have slipped Drew town?

This legit makes no sense. I'm saying you're both scummy pushing a shit scumread on me. Obviously you're not both scum but PoE says one of you are. What do you want me to say? Do I need to put "gut scumread" in quotes? Because that makes it sound like you're both scum. Quit trying to shitpush me based on semantics

[eth0s]

Dann asks if I saw the crumbs before he pointed them out, which feels like a really lazy "gotcha" attempt on me and feels scummy.

Also like, do you actually genuinely believe this is how I think as town or scum?

I've never played with scum!you. But earlier I thought you were setting me up for a "gotcha", then again with that post, and now you're claiming that I slipped and it doesn't even make sense. So yeah, I can see this coming from you as scum. Idk why you would keep trying to make me look bad if you're town, rather than actually sort me.

[eth0s]

If you're tracked with a non-killing action the night there's no kill, you guilty yourself.

Nope. If I'm scum there I actually get a somewhat substantiated fakeclaim as PR out of that.

[eth0s]

look I'm not 100% on you scum, but I don't think you're the damning inevitable lynch like you're painting this scenario to be

well you literally stated intention to vote me as I wrote the post, so I think I was pretty spot on.

[eth0s]

look I'm not 100% on you scum, but I don't think you're the damning inevitable lynch like you're painting this scenario to be

well you literally stated intention to vote me as I wrote the post, so I think I was pretty spot on.

Like scum you has hard pocketed drew and he will more than likely follow your vote on me blindly. Town you will be giving scum drew an easy opportunity to clutch the game. Town both of you = point two but throw instead of clutch (we lose anyway if you're both really town). Amrun, regardless of alignment, will likely just follow the path of least resistance, which has obviously been me for awhile now.

[eth0s]

look I'm not 100% on you scum, but I don't think you're the damning inevitable lynch like you're painting this scenario to be

well you literally stated intention to vote me as I wrote the post, so I think I was pretty spot on.

yeah so fucking talking to me!

look I'm sorry if I've come off as engaging you in bad faith

that's not me intention at all and if you're town I need you to give me the benefit of the doubt

which I know might be hard considering I just called you scum, but I'm still willing to listen and try to sort with you

Who do you think is scum? you can say me I won't be offended I guess

I mean you're calling me scum when you yourself admit that all signs should point to you scumreading drew. You're trying to paint something I said as a scumslip when it absolutely wasn't, idk what you want me to say here. I've been very clear in my thought process that I DON'T KNOW WHO SCUM IS. Like yes it's almost definitely between you and drew, and I've cased out both sides to a pretty large extent. But now you're pushing me so shittily and trying to say that my interactions with shos look bad all of a sudden, when you didn't care to say anything before, and

your own slot

deaded discussion and association clues with a quickhammer. So if you want an answer, I'm starting to feel pretty damn confident you're scum. In our prior games you've never interacted with me in this way, and we've always been town together. So you're either scum or you're dead wrong. I'll bite the bullet and say there's no ninja, there's no 1 shot multi, okay you're scum.

p-edit: none of those posts change how I feel

[eth0s]

Why will I follow the path of least resistance, regardless of alignment?

Considering it makes the least sense for this continued mylo to come from scum!you, I believe the town apathy vibes I've been getting from you surrounding the no-kill/draw scenario are genuine. One of dann/drew will eventually vote me, the other will follow suit, and then you likely hammer it when you don't feel like casing out a better alternative. Is this not how you'd play it if (when) this goes down?

[eth0s]

I just explained why I think the "obvious" reasons to scum read Drew don't apply in this situation, do you agree or disagree with my logic there?

Can we start there

I'm leaving for lunch, not ignoring this.

[eth0s]

literally have not tried to paint anything as a scum slip but go off i guess

This is disheartening. I wish it were surprising but somehow I almost always manage to become the gut scumread from the scummiest slots in late game.

I think this might have slipped Drew town?

is this not you accusing me of "knowing drew is town"?

[eth0s]

Why will I follow the path of least resistance, regardless of alignment?

Considering it makes the least sense for this continued mylo to come from scum!you, I believe the town apathy vibes I've been getting from you surrounding the no-kill/draw scenario are genuine. One of dann/drew will eventually vote me, the other will follow suit, and then you likely hammer it when you don't feel like casing out a better alternative. Is this not how you'd play it if (when) this goes down?

I don’t have any town apathy, or minimal. I am very invested in this game. I am playing closefisted on purpose to avoid giving a roadmap to scum. I don’t what gave you that impression and it kind of concerns me. Do you think the path of least resistance was duking it out with Pyrrha? That’s not how I play at all.

I’m in a unique position this game and sharing my full thoughts is antitown until the moment of truth comes.

I'm not talking about your play this game as a whole, I've been reading tonal apathy from you since this whole mylo situation began.

Fucking annoying.

I want to take a back seat and let everyone else air their final suspicions before I proceed. Thanks.

I thought this was basically saying you don't care and will just go with the majority vote, but I should have asked before assuming.

[eth0s]

in other news I'm back to thinking Drew is scum and I'm probably gonna be scum read for that flip

what do you even mean here?

[eth0s]

Why will I follow the path of least resistance, regardless of alignment?

Considering it makes the least sense for this continued mylo to come from scum!you, I believe the town apathy vibes I've been getting from you surrounding the no-kill/draw scenario are genuine. One of dann/drew will eventually vote me, the other will follow suit, and then you likely hammer it when you don't feel like casing out a better alternative. Is this not how you'd play it if (when) this goes down?

I don’t have any town apathy, or minimal. I am very invested in this game. I am playing closefisted on purpose to avoid giving a roadmap to scum. I don’t what gave you that impression and it kind of concerns me. Do you think the path of least resistance was duking it out with Pyrrha? That’s not how I play at all.

I’m in a unique position this game and sharing my full thoughts is antitown until the moment of truth comes.

I meant to include this in my quotes to you for reference

[eth0s]

I am

A: scum reading Drew and town reading you again

B: thinking people will probably read that pivot as scummy

oh, I thought you were saying "flip" as in.. his flip? a prior flip? Not like a flip flop. Got it.

[eth0s]

I just explained why I think the "obvious" reasons to scum read Drew don't apply in this situation, do you agree or disagree with my logic there?

Can we start there

I'm confused about this question too. Can you clarify what you want me to answer, if you still care about my answer?

[eth0s]

It's too convenient with not enough critical thought put into the swaps

I agree that it doesn't look good but I would like to give him time to put his full thoughts out there. Which I had assumed was coming. TBF I appreciate being given space to say what I have to say as either alignment, and I'm more worried about the lack of original thought in his posts to come, or even more so, a lack of expanding his thoughts at all.

If you're town you don't have to worry about me just being fine with a ripped off scumread on you. That's literally the same position I was in when both of you threw a vague gut scumread at me, while claiming that each other was likely the actual scum. I'm more than willing to pull some teeth for critical thought.

p-edit: will be my next post

[eth0s]

(1) I find Drew's confusion about Neighborizer being confirmable, including thinking Gamma may have town slipped inside his PT both things that would come from town—specifically newer-town in the case of the former—and I don't really see Drew as the type of player to fake ignorance for clout.

The amount of inconsistency in his posts also just feels like too much to come from scum. Like, there's no consistent narrative in his posts, he has no explicit agenda. Like he flip flops from wanting me dead to wanting eth0s dead like twice, to saying Robbnva was right about the role setup to going against that, from thinking Robb was scum to thinking eth0s was scum. Waffling can often be a scum tell but in this case it looks like genuine confusion. I think as scum Drew would be a lot more careful to be pursuing a consistent narrative that he can defend.

(2) This looks a LOT more like town just going with the flow and genuinely trying to figure things out

.

1. I've never seen Drew's scumgame so I don't want to speculate on whether or not

he

does that as scum. And even less do I want to set the principle that someone can do something they've never done as scum before, and therefore be town. That's like pyrrha-level self-meta logic. From a general perspective I would agree that looks townie, but it's the exact kind of shit that I hate losing to so I'm too paranoid to get a firm read out of that.

2. I do agree that not having an agenda is townie. The situation with robb I felt read pretty genuinely from him after rereading it. I don't like his flipping stances on you and me in mylo, but like I said, I am waiting for more from him before I worry about that too much. Overall I agree that this is townie behavior, even if it's kind of anti-town in practice.

Honestly none of the waffling you mentioned even worries me as much as his stance on shos though, and I really don't know how to feel about you not bringing that up.
On the flip side, idk why you asked me to towncase him in the midst of basically a 1v1 between you and me. Like.. idfk. this is a hard mylo. I get so heated in 1v1s sometimes that I feel like I have to look at everything you're doing as scummy but you're like, at least seemingly trying to engage with me in good faith and try to read and understand me. I feel very awkward in this game right now.

[eth0s]

I'm okay with that. I want to hear more from drew and I think Amrun should wait until the 3 of us have at least semi-locked positions before she says what she has to say.

[eth0s]

The just if my scum play is that if I appear scummy, then I am probably town.....I mentioned it before but go ask Hectic about that.

I was waffling because I didn't, and still dont, know for sure who is scum and was posting my thoughts as they came to me. As you can imagine, stream of consciousness is generally all over the place.

And scumDrew, and I can only assume scumEthos tries to kill Amrun.....with the consolation prize being the bodyguard. Not attempting the kill on Amrun, whether via no kill or by killing someone else seriously implicates you Dann.

And I thought I was pretty clear. I think you are scum.

Please link me your most recent compketed scum game. I can't even tell how I feel about your last post without some knowledge of your scumplay.

Btw are you an alt? I feel like I've asked you this before but idr.

[eth0s]

I meant your second to last post. The one I quoted. But really both I guess.

[eth0s]

The one thing I can say about drew's post without the background info is that I don't care for him continually bringing up stream of consciousness. Like if he's "aware" of it while writing it, just seems forced/lamist.

[eth0s]

@drew

Please link me your most recent compketed scum game. I can't even tell how I feel about your last post without some knowledge of your scumplay.

Btw are you an alt? I feel like I've asked you this before but idr.

[eth0s]

Talk about what?

do you wanna talk more about why you think I'm scum?

Does it purely have to do with mechanics or do you find things in my play to scum read as well

Mainly mechanical.

I just can't see scumEthos not attempting to kill Amrun.

How come?

I have my own $.02 on this conversation that I'm trying to get a feel for but I really want to see a completed scum drew game to know how I feel.

[eth0s]

TITBS or not is the question

[eth0s]

I've never played a cult game before so I'm not sure how much that will help me. Have you ever rolled traditional mafia on this site? Please link me if so. If not, I'll read the cult ISO

[eth0s]

Guys I'm sorry I started reading drews ISO in the 2nd game he linked me and then my buddies asked me to play DayZ with them and I basically completely lost track of time and will need to finish it tomorrow. I actually read the whole first 5 pages of the game for context because it kind of looked like his stance on his partner early on was essentially the same stance he had on shos this game, but he didn't vote his partner in that one. At least not at the point I left off at. I'll quote the exact post or two that pinged me unless no one cares anymore and we are just diving into votes. I will say I don't feel confident enough one way or the other to know where I'm casting my vote. There are other things I am looking out for in Drew's ISO in that other game. Hopefully I'll be at least semi-locked in tomorrow afternoon.

I do want to say that I think all 3 of us benefit from the no-kill scenario if we are scum. Maybe for slightly different reasons, but definitely more than Amrun would (WIFOM aside). Part of what I am looking for in Drew's ISO is an indication on whether his mistakes and logical fallacies this game are an anomaly or not. Like I said, still more looking to be done.

Amrun please hold off a little longer if you can.

[eth0s]

Part of what I am looking for in Drew's ISO is an indication on whether his mistakes and logical fallacies this game are an anomaly or not.

and on that subject, it was a newbie game so I'm not sure how much I will really have to work with. And he was a goon. So...

I already know he has a tendency to do silly things as town which initially town/nullpings me but some of the "mistakes" this game seem so anti-town, and there's multiple of them. Idk what to make of it. Here's to a clearer tomorrow.

[eth0s]

Fairy princess was his scum partner in this game. These quotes are from early on in the game. Day 1
Subject: Newbie 1939 | Stuff I Found Online XIII | Over

Cyrus, I don't see that at all.

I have gone back and read through the fairy stuff and it is hard to think of him as town. His vote was bad, and a 180 from what he was posting before that......I still don't get what he meant by this game was going downhill.

There is a part of me that doesn't like Carl's OMGUS vote, but he did explain things a bit after the fact.

I do intend on voting fairy, but I am not sure putting someone at L-1 so early is ideal......I never like quick hammers.

Subject: Newbie 1939 | Stuff I Found Online XIII | Over

this is true i maybe planing on changeing my vote too but i want to wait till 4 are voteing for them 1st

This is why I am weary of voting them, I don't want you to hammer fairy. It troubles me that you want to switch your vote like this.

Subject: Newbie 1939 | Stuff I Found Online XIII | Over

UNVOTE: RedFlavor

VOTE: fairyprincess69

So he waffles on his partners alignment heavily in the early phase of the game and doesn't vote as he is worried about a hammer. Eventually he does lay down a vote though. In this game the hammer came unexpectedly as he was seemingly trying to wiggle out of voting the slot.

Also:

I mentioned it earlier, I would never hard buss D1 with only one other scum without at least trying to get another wagon going.

Tbf, I will buss if necessary, but with only one other scum it is a last resort.

Also, look up my scum/cult games(I tend to role cult recruiter alot lol), I am much better as scum then town.

Go ask hectic if you need proof.

ok.

Subject: Newbie 1939 | Stuff I Found Online XIII | Over

I feel more and more confident in cyrus as town now.

Most of his posts seem like stream of consciousness and seems like would be difficult to pull of as a newbie

.

I am going to keep my vote on Fairy for the time being, looks like we are growing ever so close to a replacement for him so I would like to here from this said theoretical replacement before I move(or not move) my vote.

RedFlavor I can't figure out, but doesn't seem like he is doing much to actually help town.

interesting.

[eth0s]

There's more problems I found in the ISO but honestly I think dann looks pretty locked in so I'll only bother posting more cross analysis if amrun isn't on board with lynching Drew.

I am on board with lynching drew. However I'd rather avoid L-1 at mylo until I hear what amrun has to say at least. Sorry for making you wait, Amrun. Go ahead whenever you're ready.

[eth0s]

There's more problems I found in the ISO but honestly I think dann looks pretty locked in so I'll only bother posting more cross analysis if amrun isn't on board with lynching Drew.

I think I've done all I can if Drew is town here

based on how my last engagement with him went I don't think I'm gonna be able to see it if he's town

I definitely didn't care for his approach towards you in the last couple pages (mostly based on tone) but tbh the evidence in his scum game ISO is the most damning thing to me now. And this is coming from someone who historically hates using meta to sort people. But this game is all sorts of fucking weird so I gotta work with whatever helps at this point.

[eth0s]

Eth0s, if he is, as scum, saying he wouldn’t bus with 2 scum, why would he do it here?

Or did he do it in the quoted game, is that your point?

he did do it in the quoted game. Fairyprincess was his partner and you can see in the posts that I linked where he was debating whether to vote his partner or not. Then eventually he did. When stating concerns about a quickhammer I realized I was likely right in drew's vote being a bus in

this game

even if he hadn't meant it to stick until lynch, due to the speed at which the last 2 votes on shos formed.

[eth0s]

I honestly don't even know what you are trying to say with that iso Ethos.

Also, if you care to. Skim that whole game, you will notice vast difference to me in that game versus me in this game.

Post Edit: I did not buss in that game, fairyprincess was replaced.

I mean you had a waffling stance on them, obviously didnt want to vote them but felt pressured to, and eventually did. How does them getting replaced change the fact that you obviously contradicted your own logic from this game's 991? Replace or not it was still a bus vote that looks eerily similar to your position on shos this game.

[eth0s]

I guess I just don't understand why you're trying to act like this isn't blatant hypocrisy Drew?

[eth0s]

Like I'm not gonna say there's nothing you could say to change my mind but just telling me I'm wrong without explaining why is weird. It's like you're implying the replacement aspect of the fairyprincess situation is supposed to make that case look much different than you and shos do here. But if it does then obviously I don't understand it from your pov?

[eth0s]

I've read your ISO from that game, I can't say I've read the whole game no

same but I did read the first 5 pages of the game. I still think Drew is scum.

[eth0s]

I read your entire ISO and my opinion didn't change. I made that clear. I just don't see the point in taking the time to case all the problems I saw with it unless amrun doesn't want to lynch you.

[eth0s]

I do not want to risk getting prodded and I still think Drew is scum

[eth0s]

Eth0s.... can you tell me why you won’t vote Dan with me?

You arent even voting dann? And is your entire basis for wanting to lynch him over drew based on setup?

[eth0s]

I convinced myself out of the night kill thing; I think that could come from any scum at this juncture after further thought on the issue.

However, pyyrah’s play day 1 easily, EASILY looks most like a bus. The reason I mentally disregarded him for later was because on dan’s entrance, I looked like the likely lynch and he kind of reversed that momentum, but I was also gunning for that slot, so here in late game, this is a lot less compelling.


Today, his play has looked the most pro town and solvey.

Because life hates me.

Oh yeah. I mean I agree that pyrrha's vote quite likely could have been a partner vote but Drew's could too. I have a... complicated history with pyrrha. So far in every game I've played with her I think she's scum until I dont. And shes been town every time. I think my read on her would be more confident if she didnt replace. Or I would gunned for her lynch much earlier on. It's hard to say.

On mobile rn but I want to revisit her hammer post and see if she made any bg crumbs

[eth0s]

look I'm not 100% on you scum, but I don't think you're the damning inevitable lynch like you're painting this scenario to be

well you literally stated intention to vote me as I wrote the post, so I think I was pretty spot on.

yeah so fucking talking to me!

look I'm sorry if I've come off as engaging you in bad faith

that's not me intention at all and if you're town I need you to give me the benefit of the doubt

which I know might be hard considering I just called you scum, but I'm still willing to listen and try to sort with you

Who do you think is scum? you can say me I won't be offended I guess

I mean you're calling me scum when you yourself admit that all signs should point to you scumreading drew. You're trying to paint something I said as a scumslip when it absolutely wasn't, idk what you want me to say here. I've been very clear in my thought process that I DON'T KNOW WHO SCUM IS. Like yes it's almost definitely between you and drew, and I've cased out both sides to a pretty large extent. But now you're pushing me so shittily and trying to say that my interactions with shos look bad all of a sudden, when you didn't care to say anything before, and

your own slot

deaded discussion and association clues with a quickhammer. So if you want an answer, I'm starting to feel pretty damn confident you're scum. In our prior games you've never interacted with me in this way, and we've always been town together. So you're either scum or you're dead wrong. I'll bite the bullet and say there's no ninja, there's no 1 shot multi, okay you're scum.

p-edit: none of those posts change how I feel

Eth0s, can you explain the progression and/or things Drew and I did that lead you from this point to wanting to vote Drew?

Again, on mobile so I dont feel like quoting it out. Tbh idk if I would if I was at a computer anyway. You can see my whole progression in my ISO. You can also see where you forced me to make a scumread (which was you) in the midst of our 1v1 which you KNOW from 2 games of experience I am vulnerable to scumreading people that make bad pushes on me. Which is what you were doing.

Like idk why you're asking me this when all the info is readily available. I was uncertain before you made me pick while I was heated, had plenty of reasons to suspect either you or Drew as scum. Then you started asking me questions that I liked about trying to sort drew which eventually lead to me asking him for meta.

Then he gave me a cult game which obviously hardly helps this scenario. So I pull his teeth for a real scum game where the play there was blatantly hypocritical to things he said in this game about what he would never do as scum. Not only that but the stuff with him and his partner that game LOOKED VERY SIMILAR TO what happened with him and shos this game.

Are Drew's logical fallacies, mistakes, w/e a town tell, a scum tell, a personality trait? IDK. I think it's a personality trait overall. But when he is reluctant to give me a real scum game when I ask for one, gives me a cult one instead, and then finally gives me a scum game that is extremely damning and hypocritical... I think that's basically a nail in his own coffin.

[eth0s]

why do I claim bodyguard versus VT as scum

I also brought this up earlier. Doesn't make sense. Do you know of any pyrrha bg crumbs though?

[eth0s]

Spoiler:

eth0s, do you think power is scum?

That's L-1, I believe

Votecount 3.04

power27

(3): Amrun, Robbnva, Doctor Drew

Not Voting

(3): power27, Dannflor, eth0s

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2019-12-13 09:15:00)

I'm prepared to hammer somewhat soon unless people are interested in stalling out the game for a replacement or return of power

Nah just hammer

I want this.

VOTE: dannflor

I want this.

VOTE: dannflor

You aren’t going to get it. So why vote it?

well this is awkward

VOTE: power

Votecount 3.05 - FINAL

power27

(4): Amrun, Robbnva, Doctor Drew, Dannflor

(LYNCH)

Dannflor

(1): eth0s

Not Voting

(1): power27

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2019-12-13 09:15:00)

I think I'm convincing myself it's ethos again

This is one progression from him I really don't like in retrospect. It reads like he knows power is going to flip town and doesn't want to dirty himself with the wagon. The next day, he dropped the push on me too.

I need more of an explanation on how ethos has gone back and forth between me and Drew as his prime suspects this game, because I feel like there have been a couple times where he's been super confident I'm scum, but then it's just been dropped out of nowhere.

Like when you exploit my vulnerabilities as a town player and then ask me to look into someone else? Huh I wonder why that would look like a a scumread dropped out of nowhere.

You've seen me vs pyrrha. You've seen me vs rc.

Just because dann is looking at me in such a shallow way doesnt mean I'm gonna vote for him though. At this point drew already basically conceded and I would let this game draw before I vote damm

[eth0s]

As far as Drew goes, how do you read his insistence that his play here and in that scum game is wildly different?

That post I linked from him earlier is the big one. "I never hard bus my only scum mate in a micro without at least trying to start another wagon" not verbatim but he lieterally... buses his own teammate in like the 70th post of that game and never voted anyone else first.

So why would he link me a cult game over that when I ask for a scumgame? :thonk:

[eth0s]

Like when you exploit my vulnerabilities as a town player and then ask me to look into someone else? Huh I wonder why that would look like a a scumread dropped out of nowhere.

You've seen me vs pyrrha. You've seen me vs rc.

Just because dann is looking at me in such a shallow way doesnt mean I'm gonna vote for him though. At this point drew already basically conceded and I would let this game draw before I vote damm

Your scum read on me that I'm questioning in the quoted post was at a completely different point of me pushing you. I think this is a valid thing for me to question and I'm certainly not trying to exploit your vulnerabilities by shit pushing you.

I know you get heated in 1v1s and I specifically am still voting Drew for a reason, I'm just trying to be as thorough as possible because I don't feel especially great about putting all the solving pressure on Amrun here.

FWIW I dont think all the pressure is on amrun here. I actually just completed a game as conftown and I definitely did feel that way but it wasn't true there and isn't true here.

As for the rest of your post I'm confused. You're asking about a different time I thought you were scum?

[eth0s]

Drew idk what kind of point you're trying to prove. I asked you for your most recent scum game, you didn't see my request or whatever initially. Ok, that's fine. I ask you a second time, you link me a cult game. Ok, that's still fine I guess. I ask you specifically for a traditional scum game, and you link one. It turns out it wasn't your most recent one, still acceptable because I didn't explicitly ask that time for your most recent (at least idt I did) and apparently you forgot about your actual most recent one.

Excluding the last sentence since it hadn't happened yet, yeah. It was like pulling teeth. I did think you intentionally didn't want to link me that game at first, now it's unclear because of the actual most recent game you claim you forgot about. Regardless, having to ask 3 times is what I am referring to when I say it's like pulling teeth. Idk why you're getting so defensive over my wording, it just is what it is.

But if that's really what you see as an opening to pivot onto me then I'll grab some popcorn.

[eth0s]

I also don't understand how you can call my analysis "cherrypicking to fit my agenda" or whatever. What agenda? I spent so much time trying to figure out who the fuck is scum between you and dann and as soon as I become comfortable in my read on you it's an agenda? Amrun was clearly already suspicious of dann before she waited for us to get our thoughts collected. If I was scum pushing a damn agenda and I only need one lynch to win then why wouldn't I just push dann? Especially now that amrun openly does not want to lynch you and I know you're in a neighborhood with her and have likely been pulling AtE crap like the "pulling teeth" situation all day to get her on your good side. Like it just doesn't make any sense. Or is my agenda for you to be dead? Well then why wouldn't I just kill you?

Explain what kind of agenda I could even have here before you start throwing around heavy handed accusations like me "misrepping" or "cherrypicking" you to fit an agenda.

[eth0s]

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is I feel like you didn't actually have that much opportunity to vote elsewhere, so I don't feel like I can put much stake in the "I don't hard bus" argument.

so, basically what I said earlier with gamma/pyrrha ending the phase unexpectedly?

[eth0s]

Nah, I'm gonna get mislynched at endgame per usual. Still gonna brag about being right on you in postgame though.

[eth0s]

Nah, I'm gonna get mislynched at endgame per usual.

is this an actual thing?

It used to be more than it is now. I guess I'm just being dramatic but its still annoying

[eth0s]

Thanks for the kind words everyone!

And sorry shos. I did not mean to kill you. The l-1 and hammer came so quickly :/

I think I did okay given my position but truthfully if drew neighbored amrun the night I killed robbnva I would've lost a lot earlier. The scum pt kinda has my thoughts laid out there.

[eth0s]

I've never seen 3 pr vs 2 goon before. I dont think it was heavily town sided but I bet if I could have proven I was vanilla (vt/goon) I woulda not been lynched because clearly no one expected me to flip goon vs 3 pr.

Shos dying early made that game suck a lot tho. Even though there was a short time where I thought I might actually win

[eth0s]

Is there anything I could have done to avoid being lynched at the end there? Tbh once dann wrote out that post clearing drew I kinda froze up and figured fighting back was futile.

[eth0s]

You would have had to pivot on to me I think, and you’d kinda closed yourself off to that by then.

even if I hadn't closed myself off I never wanted to go that route

[eth0s]

you played well dann. That was a serious game winning clutch

[eth0s]

Although lynching power was definitely a black mark against my play this game.

I mean was it really that bad though? it conftowned amrun, power was out of shots anyway, and the reasoning you backed up the push with was solid.

And no offense to power but I think they were inevitably getting lynched due to their playstyle.

Out of curiosity, would you have let Penguin/RC win had it got to that point/been down to you?

Let RC win? psh no way . Just kidding, it actually depends. Had you not made that post clearing drew, no. I would've killed you. But if you had made that post clearing drew then yes. I would've let it draw at that point. Unless I came up with something better, but I find that unlikely.

[eth0s]

I mean was it really that bad though? it conftowned amrun, power was out of shots anyway, and the reasoning you backed up the push with was solid.

And no offense to power but I think they were inevitably getting lynched due to their playstyle.

not to mention people were already skeptical of 3 PRs so yeah. One of you was getting mislynched soon for sure

[eth0s]

It furthered my agenda. Although I still wouldn't have liked the lack of L-1 declaration if I was town.

[eth0s]

Killing a50 was my greatest mistake. It was originally gonna be drew because I was getting PR vibes. Idek why I changed to a50, I guess paranoid over his potential.

[eth0s]

It furthered my agenda. Although I still wouldn't have liked the lack of L-1 declaration if I was town.

Why though
Legit there was a VC ON THE PAGE
So any hammers were full responsibility of the person doing them

It's not hard to say someone is L-1 and help minimize the chance of someone getting away with "oh I didn't read/misread the VC" or whatever

In a game that is largely motivated by deception and lies it never hurts to be careful

And it just feels like your argument boils down to "not my problem" which is anti-town in practice

[eth0s]

It furthered my agenda. Although I still wouldn't have liked the lack of L-1 declaration if I was town.

Why though
Legit there was a VC ON THE PAGE
So any hammers were full responsibility of the person doing them

It's not hard to say someone is L-1 and help minimize the chance of someone getting away with "oh I didn't read/misread the VC" or whatever

In a game that is largely motivated by deception and lies it never hurts to be careful

And it just feels like your argument boils down to "not my problem" which is anti-town in practice

[eth0s]

Like if someone had "Accidentally" hammered, would I be suspicious of them? Yes.
Would they be the one most at fault? Yes.

Would I feel there is a possibility that that you contributed to foul play? Yes.
Would that feeling be amplified in cases where the hammerer flips scum? Yes.

[eth0s]

But why? Scum commonly quick hammer themselves to cut the day short and leave less discussion. Therefore partners have the same motivation.