Micro 901 | Penguin Mafia, The Third | Endgame

[Amrun]

VOTE: amrun who are you?

VOTE: Ethos

Who are you?

Hi, shos!

[Amrun]

VOTE: amrun who are you?

VOTE: ethos

unvote me right this instant

Dude, its RVS.

Did you take that comment to be serious?

[Amrun]

lol yes

VOTE: Eth0s

L-1

Why fake an L-1 here?

It’s obviously a joke.

Anyone who can count, can see that.

This made me laugh out loud.

Someone is a very serious panda.

[Amrun]

VOTE: amrun who are you?

VOTE: ethos

unvote me right this instant

Dude, its RVS.

Did you take that comment to be serious?

I did but you’re probably right. I literally freaked out over a couple of RVS votes in Necromancer and almost got myself mislynched in the span of two hours.

Were you scum?

[Amrun]

VOTE: amrun who are you?

VOTE: ethos

unvote me right this instant

Dude, its RVS.

Did you take that comment to be serious?

I did but you’re probably right. I literally freaked out over a couple of RVS votes in Necromancer and almost got myself

mislynched

in the span of two hours.

Were you scum?

I said, ”mislynched”.

Ironically enough, by the end of the day, I was nearly everyone’s top town. I have basically done my level best to avoid RVS since then but I’m trying to get more comfortable with it.

I know you said mislynched, but your comment was confusing. I felt like you were saying freaking out at RVS is scummy, so saying you did it as town was like ???

I see your join date is pretty recent, though.

RVS is a part of the game that will never go away. It’s standard. Try to relax a little bit and have fun!

[Amrun]

Flicker, why couldn’t it have given you a scum lean?

[Amrun]

I just didn't see anything scummy about it.

But weren’t you hoping to read the potential reaction? How could you know if the reaction to your inquiry would be scummy or not?

[Amrun]

I just didn't see anything scummy about it.

But weren’t you hoping to read the potential reaction? How could you know if the reaction to your inquiry would be scummy or not?

Fair point, there could have been a scummy reaction. I guess I'm just not creative enough to imagine what that would look like.

Sounds like someone who knows shos is town.

VOTE: Flicker

[Amrun]

I just didn't see anything scummy about it.

But weren’t you hoping to read the potential reaction? How could you know if the reaction to your inquiry would be scummy or not?

Fair point, there could have been a scummy reaction. I guess I'm just not creative enough to imagine what that would look like.

Sounds like someone who knows shos is town.

VOTE: Flicker

I'd actually argue exactly the opposite. If memory serves me right, I used to do that on RVS in games to provoke reactions. Can't remember if I did that as scum too though (last scum game was probably 2 years ago...). I was surprised to see flickers post as he indeed was spot on.

While that may be some sort of white knighting, I didn't even begin to have any pressure on ME so WK wasn't needed or useful for flickerscum.

Interesting

Either way I'm happy to say I broke RVS yoooo

You’re arguing the opposite on the sense you think it makes flicker town?

[Amrun]

Shos: I disagree. All scum are trying to look Town so appearing to be making reads is something all scum have incentive and reason to do. It is weird to reaction test someone and not consider the fact that the reaction might be scummy. That’s not a reaction test. It’s a rote way of going about generating fake reads.

[Amrun]

I agree with amrun

Why wasn’t this post accompanied by a flicker vote?

Oi

Shos: I disagree. All scum are trying to look Town so appearing to be making reads is something all scum have incentive and reason to do. It is weird to reaction test someone and not consider the fact that the reaction might be scummy. That’s not a reaction test. It’s a rote way of going about generating fake reads.

Please answer me ONLY after Robbnva answers (my reply below), as his post looks like shit to me:

I agree with amrun

Could you explain in your words what you are thinking?

Shos: I disagree. All scum are trying to look Town so appearing to be making reads is something all scum have incentive and reason to do. It is weird to reaction test someone and not consider the fact that the reaction might be scummy. That’s not a reaction test. It’s a rote way of going about generating fake reads.

My vote was not a reaction test of Fisherman. It was a general attempt to provoke, but specifically intended to pressure ethos (picked at random). So if any, I'd call that a reaction test for ethos, not for fisherman.

Flicker was reaction testing YOU. It had nothing to do with your reaction test. Confused by this post.

[Amrun]

Why wasn’t this post accompanied by a flicker vote?

Cause I liked my shos vote better.

You were previously scumreading shos? For what reason?

What do you think of flicker and shos being scum together?

[Amrun]

I have no idea if they can be scum together. it’s not impossible. I’m not going to let pre-flip associations bias my reads.

For what it’s worth, I believe that if Flicker flips scum, shos is town.

[Amrun]

Ok thanks for sharing. I still don’t think there’s been enough to rule that out. Distancing/bussing stuff happens all the time. If either of them are town, I’d wish they start playing better.

Yes, but Y player not considering that X player might say something scummy almost universally makes X player town if Y player is scum. That’s not something a partner would think or do. It’s about the mentality of it.

Flicker and shos could be town, shos could be scum and Flicker could be town, but I would be extremely shocked if they flipped scum together.

[Amrun]

lol yes

VOTE: Eth0s

L-1

Why fake an L-1 here?

It’s obviously a joke.

Anyone who can count, can see that.

Maybe Maybe it was just a joke and completely null. Maybe it was actually a reaction test and I could have gotten a town lean from that.

In any case, I would have appreciated it if you'd let shos answer that.

@shos: Flicker was attempting to reaction test YOU. I’m honestly not sure what you are talking about.

[Amrun]

Eh.... don’t like the push on Robb. Post timing? That’s a stretch.

[Amrun]

VOTE: power27

I reread a couple of times during night and he stuck out like a sore thumb.

Ethos, Robb, and gamma are town.

If scum is bussing, is Nikos or whatever that name is. However, the simpler answer is that it’s power27.

[Amrun]

UNVOTE:

I really am getting strong town vibes from Robb.

agree

will post more soon

On robb vs shos
It seems most likely town/town
maf/town or town/maf wouldn't work because scum wouldn't want to get into such a big argument, and they are both equally provoking the other
maf/maf is obviously not it why in the world would they be bussing so much

This is his only content (basically) and it stinks in light of the shos flip.

He was happy to soft support the flicker/Almost50 pressure I was putting on, but he tried pretty hard to sidestep truly commenting on shos itself. “Robb seems town” and “seems town/town interaction” stops short of saying “shos is town, so this lynch is bad.”

[Amrun]

I don’t know what to make of the flicker kill. It was pretty bizarre tbh.

[Amrun]

Also I'm utterly confused as for why it seems I am universally scumread for pressuring Robb. I can't imagine a situation these three are all town.

I’m going with the assumption they all are and amrun somehow townread shos which boggles my mind.

I didn’t townread shos. I don’t know why you even think that. His push on you was scummy, and I didn’t get the chance to espouse a strong read either way, but I clearly remarked several times his push on you was bad.

I just wasn’t ready to hammer and the wagon was moving fast.

What if shos had been town doctor or something? No time for claim or anything. That’s not really best practice. It turned out to be scum so it’s fine but I wasn’t a fan of that hammer vote at all. If there is scum on that wagon it’s there.

However, my lack of strong position doesn’t put me in a great position for today, and I understand that. This is WIFOM, and no one here knows me well, but no way would I have been caught in such a weak position as scum.

Be that as it may, I am not the worst lynch for today, objectively so I don’t really care what happens to that. But you can be assured I will be leaving my reads behind at least. I don’t think I’m the best lynch, though, either. especially since I am town.

[Amrun]

Pyrrha Nikos, why did you hammer like that?

[Amrun]

I have a town lean on Doctor Drew. It’s more likely town but not completely discounted as buddy.

[Amrun]

Flicker and shos could be town, shos could be scum and Flicker could be town, but I would be extremely shocked if they flipped scum together.

This plus voting flicker 1. Implies shos is a town read and 2. Is a great way to distance from shos.

I’d feel better lynching you first cause based on day 1 and shos actually being scum. With two scum you can’t really bus so you can only push an alternate narrative and distance.

No, it doesn’t imply that. It implies that shos is town IF Flicker flipped scum. IF Flicker flipped scum, that wasn’t a buddy interaction. Up to and until that happened, shos could easily have been scum. Once he had flipped scum, I would have townread Flicker because I still don’t see buddies doing that (and obviously they were not buddies).

As for A50, I don’t have any completed games on this site since at least six years ago, and I can’t comment on ongoing games. Have YOU played with A50?

[Amrun]

Also, I don’t think distancing means what you think it means.

P-edit: sorry, rob, but IF I have ever played with you, I don’t remember a single thing about your play style. I have been absent from site for 6+ years.

[Amrun]

I already told you. Pyrrha Nikos could EASILY be the other buddy as opposed to power, who could just be a weak player in general.

Outside chance of Dr Drew but I doubt it.

Honestly, this game is ez mode, I hope. Even if I am mislynched, I think town has a decent shot at winning.

[Amrun]

Also Robb - why would I kill Flicker, as scum?

power was sheeping my espoused Flicker read, and so he wouldn’t kill Flicker, but me, the originator, would?

[Amrun]

Robb, did you think that hammer was ok? A good play?

What do you think of Nikos?

[Amrun]

Also Robb - why would I kill Flicker, as scum?

power was sheeping my espoused Flicker read, and so he wouldn’t kill Flicker, but me, the originator, would?

In case I accidentally buried this question with my multi post. (Sorry.)

[Amrun]

Also Robb - why would I kill Flicker, as scum?

power was sheeping my espoused Flicker read, and so he wouldn’t kill Flicker, but me, the originator, would?

Your day one was pushing shos v flicker. Shos flipping scum means your contribution was wasted and you’d have to somehow adjust your read on flicker or have essentially flicker becoming conf town

I can see that. I don’t know why adjusting my read on Flicker would be a threat to me, as scum, especially more so than the MANY other slots who are now basically conftown and are also stronger players than that slot.

I am not intimidated by adjusting reads as either alignment.

Once again, though, I understand why my position is precarious today. When it comes down to it I don’t care because I am town and luckily we are in the position to win even if I am mislynched.

[Amrun]

I have played a few games with A50, I have hard town read him when he was scum.....so there's that.

He does have a....'unique' playstyle at times.

Do you think his replacing into the slot had something to do with why it was killed?

If so, who might be motivated to do that?

[Amrun]

My townread on gamma is relatively lower than that on rob and ethos but still. Hmm.

[Amrun]

Would happily lynch Pyrrha today.


Would need convincing on Gamma.

[Amrun]

Amrun, on a side note.....can't believe I missed your sig.

The tigerpocalypse brings back memories haha.

We remember.

[Amrun]

lol yes

VOTE: Eth0s

L-1

Why fake an L-1 here?

It’s obviously a joke.

Anyone who can count, can see that.

Maybe Maybe it was just a joke and completely null.

Maybe it was actually a reaction test and I could have gotten a town lean from that.

In any case, I would have appreciated it if you'd let shos answer that.

The bolded gives me weird vibes

[Amrun]

Honestly the more I think about it, pyyrhos is probably the better lynch but I want to see what they have to say for themselves.

[Amrun]

Oh that post
I'm pretty sure I misunderstood that line anyway

Why didn’t you vote anyone all day?

[Amrun]

But you got weird vibes on Flicker, and kept your RVS vote. Wouldn’t that have been enough reason to vote? Better than RVS.

Granted that the day ended unexpectedly.

[Amrun]

Fair point
But it was more of a 'this isn't town motovation' not 'this is scum'

Literally what is the difference?

[Amrun]

Ok so it was a purposeful hammer with no claim?

VOTE: Pyrha Nikos

[Amrun]

That’s a terrible reason. Why would that make my vote on you scummy anyway?

[Amrun]

I. Don’t. Care.

“Shos scum” makes sense is the very fucking worst reason to quick hammer someone that I have EVER heard.

Especially based on two unrelated people. It reeks of knowing shos was going to flip scum. If it’s town, it’s play that deserves punishment.

[Amrun]

I don’t care about the linked game. I have read what you are saying, but it’s 100% irrelevant. We already know shos is scum. In fact, saying you “caught scum” when you were the LAST person on the wagon is disingenuous in and of itself. None of it is a good reason to QUICKhammer. A quickhammer is not the same as any other vote.

A quick hammer is an inherently scummy action. The fact that you seem to think it requires no apology or explanation leaves me scared for the state of meta today.

Please, recent players - tell me if I’m being an old fart and this is now normal.

[Amrun]

Btw guys, I really don’t think Amrun’s push on me is townie, so after I flip, you should probably lynch him.

Town!Amun, would read the game I linked before dearth tunneling me, because it proves what I’m saying and if he was town here, that absolutely should matter to him.

Also, I don’t even think you were on the site the last time I played a game. How would you know anything about my meta?

Even if you did, why would you still think it’s relevant after 6 years? Do you think I am not different after that time, and my meta would have changed?

For example, I’m no longer a college student - I’m at work, and though it’s a Saturday and so I can post more lax than usual, I don’t have time to read unrelated games for completely arbitrary reasons.

This argument is so weird. Do I know you under another name?

[Amrun]

Also, I don’t appreciate being called lazy just because you don’t agree with what I have to say.

I’d say a shit quick hammer was pretty lazy, but, y’know, maybe that’s just me.

[Amrun]

Scum reading hammer of scum doesn’t warrant a scum read right now. You say you haven’t played in 6 years, hammers without claims have become a thing sometimes.

You’re all over the place amrun.

How am I all over the place? I’ve said that the hammer was scummy since the beginning of the day. My stance is consistent.

P-edit: started it how? If asking someone why they quick hammered is an “argument” now, I don’t know what to say.

[Amrun]

You started voting power and when it didn’t seem like anyone was interested you moved to Pyrrha.

You started it by attacking somebody who hammered scum. In this setup somebody off the wagon, pushing an alternate lynch is better imo. Pushing somebody who hammered scum because they didn’t ask for a claim and then ignoring his reason why is scummy at best, anti-town at worst.

That is ridiculous.

First of all, I do suspect somebody off the wagon, power, but that is an odd stance to take. Smart scum would bus in that situation. Power is newer so I could see him staying off.

I’m fine with either Power/Nikos today. I think my progression on that has been pretty fluid and easy to follow so I’m not going to painstakingly go over it.

[Amrun]

I don’t care about the linked game. I have read what you are saying, but it’s 100% irrelevant. We already know shos is scum. In fact, saying you “caught scum” when you were the LAST person on the wagon is disingenuous in and of itself. None of it is a good reason to QUICKhammer. A quickhammer is not the same as any other vote.

A quick hammer is an inherently scummy action. The fact that you seem to think it requires no apology or explanation leaves me scared for the state of meta today.

Please, recent players - tell me if I’m being an old fart and this is now normal.

Do you usually sr players who hammer scum or is it just in THIS game?

Yes, quickhammers much more frequently come from scum than town.

I have seen plenty of buddies quickhammer hoping for last minute town cred, stop further town reflection, and to prevent their buddy from digging a deeper hole with a fake claim.

I don’t understand why you care that I won’t read an ENTIRE game for meta that is useless. I’ve played with Thor before. I’ve seen him tunnel as scum. I get the idea. I’m sure, as either alignment, that you wouldn’t choose to link a game that wasn’t some kind of parallel. However, the whole idea behind it is so strange to me. It’s a bad case. It boils down to “scum sometimes push town for poor reasons.” Duh? Of course they do? I mean, why are you acting like that’s some sort of crowning victory or discovery? It’s not.

P-edit: yes, I did question you. This entire conversation started with me asking you why you quickhammered. You have YET to answer that question. Your only answer has been, literally, “shos scum made sense because scum push bad cases on town.”

I was never questioning why you scumread shos, or why you voted him. I’m questioning why you QUICKHAMMERED and you are conveniently sidestepping that question - pretty deliberated IMO. And that’s why I changed my vote.

P-edit2: I don’t understand the question. It was a list of possibilities that could work, followed by one that could not work (which is flicker and shos both being scum).

[Amrun]

I’m pyrrah v amrun I like pyraah. He’s making much better arguments than amrun is and amrun is refusing to consider presented evidence to explain pyrrah’s motives. This means amrun doesn’t care about why he did it, just the fact he hammered scum is a scum tell which we all know it isn’t that simple. Town does this a lot. Tbh nothing shos could have claimed would have stopped me from wanting him lynched.

Claims are pointless anyway. Scum fake claim. You can’t give somebody a free pass just cause they claim a PR. If the play indicates scum you lynch it.

It’s still important to get a claim.

There ARE claims that may pause the lynch wagon, but more importantly, WHAT scum chooses to fake claim can give set up info and be useful.

There may have been Town PRs who wanted to breadcrumb their night actions. There may have been Town that wanted to get out their final reads in case they died.

Quickhammers are not protown. It should not be the norm, and I hope it is not.

P-edit: Maybe it is more normal now. Either way, I’m not familiar with it so I’m working with what I know, and I just wanted an explanation from Pyyrhos. Her explanation sucks.

[Amrun]

So he did say shos was town. That means he lied earlier.

No I didn’t. I have explained this post several times. Honestly, it’s basic English. You both need to work on reading comprehension.

Listing X, Y, and Z as possibilities doesn’t mean you can pull out Y possibility as something I was saying is definitely true.

[Amrun]

Look, I honestly don’t care anymore. This game is irritating me right now.

If it will get everyone to calm the fuck down and actually listen to one another, lynch me so you can actually evaluate for tomorrow. I prepared myself to be mislynched today; town will be fine if it actually reads and lynches down the likely scum.

P-Edit: NO ITS NOT. ITS A LIST OF POSSIBILITIES THAT INCLUDE BOTH SHOS TOWN AND SHOS SCUM. I do not know how to make it more clear.

[Amrun]

I’m pyrrah v amrun I like pyraah. He’s making much better arguments than amrun is and amrun is refusing to consider presented evidence to explain pyrrah’s motives. This means amrun doesn’t care about why he did it, just the fact he hammered scum is a scum tell which we all know it isn’t that simple. Town does this a lot. Tbh nothing shos could have claimed would have stopped me from wanting him lynched.

Claims are pointless anyway. Scum fake claim. You can’t give somebody a free pass just cause they claim a PR. If the play indicates scum you lynch it.

He could also be flat out role fishing. It’s really super scummy of him to demand a claim before I’m anywhere close to being at L-1.

What?! I didn’t ask you to claim. Wtf

[Amrun]

Thanks for finding that post Pyrrha

Thank you for not letting Amron get away with shrugging off not reading the link I posted. Like what is he afraid of, finding out that what I said is valid?

You won’t even read what’s actually posted in game, so ok.

[Amrun]

Honestly, I don’t think PN’s behavior right now is alignment indicative. I think she’s in a bad mood and taking it out on the game.

P-edit: said many times I’d be fine lynching power. But at this point if you lynch me it will be fine with me - town should still win if they keep their heads on.

P-edit 2: it’s a list of possibilities. It’s not stating one is true over the other because I didn’t know flicker’s alignment. It’s not rocket science.

P-edit 3: I have explained repeatedly why it’s a waste of my time and not alignment indicative what that link says either way.

[Amrun]

No, it’s not. It’s a waste of my time.

As I said, I’m sure there is a parallel there either way. It just DOES NOT MATTER. It’s common sense - no meta needed.

P-edit: what? I can’t even parse that post.

P-edit: with no claim from SHOS. Not you. What the hell?

[Amrun]

You can’t parse my post? You want to criticize my reading comprehension. My post is very clear.

Basically I didn’t know shos’s alignment and I thought he was scum which means I scum read him.

So you saying you didn’t know his alignment and you saying you think he is town means you town read him. You’re arguing that’s false narrative which it can’t be and isn’t.

Just own up to the fact you said you thought he was town and be done with it. You’re caught in that lie already so may as well admit it.

Ok I understand this one.

I didn’t say I think he is town. I never said that. That’s our fundamental misunderstanding. I said I think he is town IF Flicker were to die and flip scum. Those two statements are VERY different. I even took the time to list out all the possibilities it could be (Flicker Town, shos Town; shos scum, flicker town; both town; Flicker scum, shos town) to contrast it with the only one I did not think it could be (scum scum).

My scumread on Flicker was never particularly strong, so I never mentally committed to it either way. Had I been very sure of Flicker scum, I may have considered shos more likely to be town. I understand now what you’re driving at at least. I did not espouse a read of shos at all, only ruled out of flicker scum and shos scum together. Whatever else you took from that post was not intentional. This is what I meant.

I truly, truly don’t know how to make that more clear. I apologize - I would if I could.

[Amrun]

Thanks for finding that post Pyrrha

Thank you for not letting Amron get away with shrugging off not reading the link I posted. Like what is he afraid of, finding out that what I said is valid?

You won’t even read what’s actually posted in game, so ok.

What tf are you even referring to here?

You asked me to explain the sudden hammer and I not only did that, I backed it up, so you’d know I didn’t just mull that out of my ass. I expected you to read it but for some reason, you had 0 interest in doing so. What possible town motivation could you possibly have for refusing to read that game? If it was too much effort, you could have then asked me to try and find the relevant posts but you did neither. Why?

At that point, I felt like you were misrepping me, but not necessarily on purpose. That’s why I said that, and also the NAI thing. I still feel like you were just being hotheaded and getting worked up. A key example is you thinking I asked you to claim. I still do not understand how that post could EVER be interpreted as me asking you to claim. Like - ever. However I don’t really think it’s something you would try to stretch as scum - I think you would say that as either alignment.

The majority of your response is AI, but I specifically was referring to your confrontational attitude is the part I don’t think is AI. The content still is relevant. I hope that makes sense. I got a little heated too - didn’t mean to offend but I can see how it might have, so I apologize.

Once again, the reason I am not interested in reading the game is because there is no need to. You summarized it succinctly and I got what you were going for. It’s also two unrelated players so I don’t think it is relevant.

I felt like you were explaining to me why you voted shos. I already had read your post on why you voted shos, so I knew that already. I was asking why you quickhammered and I still don’t think you’ve answered that beyond the fact that you don’t appear to place any importance on the fact that you did so, which is bizarre to me.

P-edit: I do not want you to claim. For the Nth time.

P-edit 2: hold your horses.

[Amrun]

Thanks for finding that post Pyrrha

Thank you for not letting Amron get away with shrugging off not reading the link I posted. Like what is he afraid of, finding out that what I said is valid?

You won’t even read what’s actually posted in game, so ok.

What tf are you even referring to here?

You asked me to explain the sudden hammer and I not only did that, I backed it up, so you’d know I didn’t just mull that out of my ass. I expected you to read it but for some reason, you had 0 interest in doing so. What possible town motivation could you possibly have for refusing to read that game? If it was too much effort, you could have then asked me to try and find the relevant posts but you did neither. Why?

At that point, I felt like you were misrepping me, but not necessarily on purpose. That’s why I said that, and also the NAI thing. I still feel like you were just being hotheaded and getting worked up. A key example is you thinking I asked you to claim. I still do not understand how that post could EVER be interpreted as me asking you to claim. Like - ever. However I don’t really think it’s something you would try to stretch as scum - I think you would say that as either alignment.

The majority of your response is AI, but I specifically was referring to your confrontational attitude is the part I don’t think is AI. The content still is relevant. I hope that makes sense. I got a little heated too - didn’t mean to offend but I can see how it might have, so I apologize.

Once again, the reason I am not interested in reading the game is because there is no need to. You summarized it succinctly and I got what you were going for. It’s also two unrelated players so I don’t think it is relevant.

I felt like you were explaining to me why you voted shos. I already had read your post on why you voted shos, so I knew that already. I was asking why you quickhammered and I still don’t think you’ve answered that beyond the fact that you don’t appear to place any importance on the fact that you did so, which is bizarre to me.

P-edit: I do not want you to claim. For the Nth time.

P-edit 2: hold your horses.

But I DID answer you. I told you, while I was reading Gamma’s and Robb’s posts, trying to make sense of how Shos can have such an idiotic tunnel on Robb yet seem so sincere, I suddenly remembered Thor doing pretty much the exact same thing to Gamma in YGM and then it suddenly clicked that he was more likely to be scum than not. Had I recalled that game earlier, my vote would have already been on him but thank God I did.

No, this does not answer my question. It says why you voted him, not why you quickhammered him.

If I have missed any questions to me, please restate them.

[Amrun]

Thanks for finding that post Pyrrha

Thank you for not letting Amron get away with shrugging off not reading the link I posted. Like what is he afraid of, finding out that what I said is valid?

You won’t even read what’s actually posted in game, so ok.

What tf are you even referring to here?

You asked me to explain the sudden hammer and I not only did that, I backed it up, so you’d know I didn’t just mull that out of my ass. I expected you to read it but for some reason, you had 0 interest in doing so. What possible town motivation could you possibly have for refusing to read that game? If it was too much effort, you could have then asked me to try and find the relevant posts but you did neither. Why?

At that point, I felt like you were misrepping me, but not necessarily on purpose. That’s why I said that, and also the NAI thing. I still feel like you were just being hotheaded and getting worked up. A key example is you thinking I asked you to claim. I still do not understand how that post could EVER be interpreted as me asking you to claim. Like - ever. However I don’t really think it’s something you would try to stretch as scum - I think you would say that as either alignment.

The majority of your response is AI, but I specifically was referring to your confrontational attitude is the part I don’t think is AI. The content still is relevant. I hope that makes sense. I got a little heated too - didn’t mean to offend but I can see how it might have, so I apologize.

Once again, the reason I am not interested in reading the game is because there is no need to. You summarized it succinctly and I got what you were going for. It’s also two unrelated players so I don’t think it is relevant.

I felt like you were explaining to me why you voted shos. I already had read your post on why you voted shos, so I knew that already. I was asking why you quickhammered and I still don’t think you’ve answered that beyond the fact that you don’t appear to place any importance on the fact that you did so, which is bizarre to me.

P-edit: I do not want you to claim. For the Nth time.

P-edit 2: hold your horses.

But I DID answer you. I told you, while I was reading Gamma’s and Robb’s posts, trying to make sense of how Shos can have such an idiotic tunnel on Robb yet seem so sincere, I suddenly remembered Thor doing pretty much the exact same thing to Gamma in YGM and then it suddenly clicked that he was more likely to be scum than not. Had I recalled that game earlier, my vote would have already been on him but thank God I did.

No, this does not answer my question. It says why you voted him, not why you quickhammered him

.

If I have missed any questions to me, please restate them.

See, this is why I think you’re scum. You are asking meaningless questions. How could I have voted him without quick hammering him here? I had the epiphany right after Gamma voted, so this question reads as insincere to me.

What? I feel like I am in a twilight zone.

You could have stated your suspicion on him - even an intent to hammer! Waited for 5 fucking seconds so people could say what they need to say, given him an opportunity to claim and for town to chime in, and then hammered him.

That’s the normal procedure when someone wants to vote someone at L-1.

[Amrun]

I have no idea if they can be scum together. it’s not impossible. I’m not going to let pre-flip associations bias my reads.

For what it’s worth, I believe that if Flicker flips scum, shos is town.

See? You say you think he’s town.

No, I don’t, and I didn’t say that at the time. I have explained this repeatedly. That is not what that sentence means, objectively, nor is it what I was trying to say.

I took the time to calmly explain for the Nth time what I meant when I said that, even though the original post was very clear IMO. Read that, or don’t. I’m done engaging with any iteration of this statement. It’s a distraction and not helpful to anyone.

[Amrun]

I’m not UPSET, except at being repeatedly insulted and talked down to for no reason.

I’m saying that I find the vote timing, and the manner in which it was done, scummy.

Please do not take offense at this - from my view, you are the one who is upset.

[Amrun]

My working idea is that scum is in gamma/pyrrha. town!gamma could have given scum!pyrrha a free pass to "accident hammer" for towncred by not declaring L-1. or scum!gamma could have not declared L-1 in hopes of a fast hammer to both end the day quickly and buy himself towncred. The former seems much more likely at a glance.

Or there was a VC at the top of the page so anyone who did hammer would have no excuse to not realize what they were doing you pistachio

oh so you should have known you were putting him to L-1 then?

Is it usual for scum to bus on D1 in a micro though?, seems unlikely but I have seen it happen. Still think scum either was offwagon or if scum, didn’t jump off in time and accidentally bussed but I obviously could be completely wrong on this.

When the lynch is clearly inevitable because your scum buddy has fucked up? Yes. Why would it not be?

[Amrun]

His reactions look genuine and considering he was misrepped multiple times I think he's handled it well. I think that it's quite likely that pyrrha or gamma is scum here and he seems to agree, and I side with him 100% on the argument of how badly that hammer and EOD was handled. I honestly don't know what you're trying to prove by saying that you wouldn't have been surprised at all if shos flipped town given the fact that you quickhammered him with no claim or chance for town to discuss.

For all that is holy, THANK YOU.

[Amrun]

these last few pages suck and amrun never gets lynched today

You don’t get to say who does and doesn’t get lynched. He got caught in a lie. While I don’t get to say who gets lynched either, I’m basically the only clear and I think that should hold some weight.

you're right, I don't get to pick. I'm just trying to keep things realistic because I don't see a scenario where he hangs today. I'd like to understand why you think he was caught in a lie because it pretty clearly looks like he wasn't.

He says he thought shos was town d1
D2 he claims he beer said it.

The quote has been posted 3/4 times now. It’s very clear he says he townreads him. Him denying it today means he’s lying.

How do you not see this?

Because that’s not what the quote says.

Someone, of any alignment, literally anyone who is sane - If they were actually LYING, and someone quoted something that proves they were lying, they would admit to it.

The only explanation that makes sense is that in fact, the quote does not prove that.

I need to stop commenting on this. It’s unproductive.

P-edit: I’m mad because of how this day has gone down, and feeling like I am talking to a literal fucking brick wall. And if you end up town, I’ll be mad at the anti-town behavior, and the downright rude, mean behavior you’re displaying. The quick hammer itself doesn’t make me mad. It just makes me scumread you.

[Amrun]

Also, L-1s can turn around but any somewhat competent player could see shos was doomed unless he had a spectacular claim. There was still more town could have gotten out of the day. Ending it prematurely was clearly anti town.

P-edit: cool it with the threats, please.

[Amrun]

Also, L-1s can turn around but any somewhat competent player could see shos was doomed unless he had a spectacular claim. There was still more town could have gotten out of the day. Ending it prematurely was clearly anti town.

P-edit: cool it with the threats, please.

Why are you still voting me if you’re town? Ethos is just bad but what’s your excuse?

Because I think you’re scum, and if you’re not, you’re playing is bad for the town either way. Your behavior is mean, bratty and reads like scum throwing a fit because they thought they were going to be soooo townread for their buddy hammer.

Ethos, don’t give up. Sanity is still here.

P-edit: that’s not true, Robb. Scum bus all the time, especially in that situation.

[Amrun]

Also, L-1s can turn around but any somewhat competent player could see shos was doomed unless he had a spectacular claim. There was still more town could have gotten out of the day. Ending it prematurely was clearly anti town.

P-edit: cool it with the threats, please.

Why are you still voting me if you’re town? Ethos is just bad but what’s your excuse?

Because I think you’re scum, and if you’re not, you’re playing is bad for the town either way. Your behavior is mean, bratty and reads like scum throwing a fit because they thought they were going to be soooo townread for their buddy hammer.

Ethos, don’t give up. Sanity is still here.

P-edit: that’s not true, Robb. Scum bus all the time, especially in that situation.

You’re once again - I’m starting to think, intentionally? - misreading me. I said I didn’t expect to be sr not that I was looking to be tr. But hell yeah I’m missed. I helped lynch scum and at least one WOAT who ought to know better is fucking sr me for it. Why tf wouldn’t I be pissed about that? Not that I’d be happy about it if he flipped town but at least I’d understand that rational people were wrongly sr me.

Why would you SAY that you expected to be town read? Especially if you are scum? That is insane.

I’m speculating on your motivation. Just because you didn’t explicitly stare that it was your motivation doesn’t mean it wasn’t.

[Amrun]

Excuse me? An apology to YOU after your continued personal attacks on me and ethos. No, we are not the ones who would owe apologies.

I am not misrepresenting you, as I just explained. I am speculating on your motivation, NOT stating that you said that was your motivation. These are different things.

[Amrun]

I honestly don't want to play with pyrrha, that's where I'm at. this talking down on people and egotistical bullshit is stupid and I'm not having fun

Me too. But hopefully it gets better.

I think it’s unethical to replace out for that reason so I’ll stick it out.

[Amrun]

Excuse me? An apology to YOU after your continued personal attacks on me and ethos. No, we are not the ones who would owe apologies.

I am not misrepresenting you, as I just explained. I am speculating on your motivation, NOT stating that you said that was your motivation. These are different things.

Ethos is kind of asking for it, as for you, I think your scum equity is pretty high but you’re not exactly helping me that by fixating on me. Because I’m obviously not going to wrongly sr myself.

And you attacked me right after I apologized.

I don’t consider what I said an attack, but if you considered it one, then I apologize for it. Your behavior doesn’t excuse mine.

I didn’t see an apology just prior to that unless I missed it. But you literally said you would continue to character attack ethos as long as he scumread you. No real coming back from that, especially as you continue to do it.

I’m actually not fixated on you and nothing in the thread would suggest that I was. You are the one that is fixated and OMGUSing. I have dynamic reads and am happy to lynch a number of players, of which you are only one.

[Amrun]

Excuse me? An apology to YOU after your continued personal attacks on me and ethos. No, we are not the ones who would owe apologies.

I am not misrepresenting you, as I just explained. I am speculating on your motivation, NOT stating that you said that was your motivation. These are different things.

Ethos is kind of asking for it, as for you, I think your scum equity is pretty high but you’re not exactly helping me that by fixating on me. Because I’m obviously not going to wrongly sr myself.

And you attacked me right after I apologized.

I don’t consider what I said an attack, but if you considered it one, then I apologize for it. Your behavior doesn’t excuse mine.

I didn’t see an apology just prior to that unless I missed it. But you literally said you would continue to character attack ethos as long as he scumread you. No real coming back from that, especially as you continue to do it.

I’m actually not fixated on you and nothing in the thread would suggest that I was. You are the one that is fixated and OMGUSing. I have dynamic reads and am happy to lynch a number of players, of which you are only one.

I would really really appreciate it if you direct quoted me, so I can actually tell if you’re misrepping/misconstruing me or not.

I am probably over reacting to Ethos but he more than anyone should 100% not be sr me for that.

Quote what? I’m not referring to ANYTHING YOU SAID. That’s what I keep telling you. I have no idea what you are talking about.

And ethos provided that quote for you ages ago.

[Amrun]

Excuse me? An apology to YOU after your continued personal attacks on me and ethos. No, we are not the ones who would owe apologies.

I am not misrepresenting you, as I just explained. I am speculating on your motivation, NOT stating that you said that was your motivation. These are different things.

Ethos is kind of asking for it, as for you, I think your scum equity is pretty high but you’re not exactly helping me that by fixating on me. Because I’m obviously not going to wrongly sr myself.

And you attacked me right after I apologized.

I don’t consider what I said an attack, but if you considered it one, then I apologize for it. Your behavior doesn’t excuse mine.

I didn’t see an apology just prior to that unless I missed it. But you literally said you would continue to character attack ethos as long as he scumread you. No real coming back from that, especially as you continue to do it.

I’m actually not fixated on you and nothing in the thread would suggest that I was. You are the one that is fixated and OMGUSing.

I have dynamic reads and am happy to lynch a number of players, of which you are only one

.

I would really really appreciate it if you direct quoted me, so I can actually tell if you’re misrepping/misconstruing me or not.

I am probably over reacting to Ethos but he more than anyone should 100% not be sr me for that.

Quote what? I’m not referring to ANYTHING YOU SAID. That’s what I keep telling you. I have no idea what you are talking about.

And ethos provided that quote for you ages ago.

Wrt the bolded, tell me who those are. I can’t possibly correctly parse you without hearing about your other reads. I know I’m town and your vote on me is bad, so that really isn’t much to work with.

If he responded then I clearly missed it.

If you can’t ISO people, then I can’t help you. This is why I made the crack earlier about you not reading the posts from the game while complaining that I wouldn’t read an ENTIRE SEPARATE GAME. I shouldn’t have been snarky about it, but the point itself still stands.

Don’t be lazy, since it is so “scummy” that I am “too lazy” to read another game. If you want to know my reads, read my posts. If you want to know ethos’ response, read his posts.

[Amrun]

However, to accommodate you, and since I have some updates, here they are.

I’d be equally happy to lynch either you (PN) or power today. Right now my scumread on you feels stronger but I am really pissed so I’ll let that settle for awhile before I decide. Either way, mechanically, either is a fine lynch.

Originally, I decided Gamma was town, but I have put him back closer to null after thinking about A50’s kill. There is an outside chance of scum in {Dr Drew, Gamma}.

Ethos and Robb are very obviously town.

[Amrun]

Well that sort of reaction certainly doesn’t make me want to TR you
Outside of what I’d already mentioned, I also believe me and Pyrrha have the same way of using meta, sort of using it as a crutch at times. And I feel like I have done in the past as scum what Pyrrha is doing, which is heavily leaning on that meta crutch and trying to push using that and little else. I get that impression because she is getting fired up about how important the meta is, and re-applying it to Amrun after applying it to shos.
FYI I’m between you and Amrun rn, Pyrrha. I lean towards you but depending on how things develop I could well change my mind.

I am weirded out still how PN tried to use meta on me despite likely having never played with me before and it being six years since I played. She also NEVER responded to my questions about that.

[Amrun]

Btw guys, I really don’t think Amrun’s push on me is townie, so after I flip, you should probably lynch him.

Town!Amun, would read the game I linked before dearth tunneling me, because it proves what I’m saying and if he was town here, that absolutely should matter to him.

I asked you earlier how you could make such a statement if you never played with me, and if you have, but it was left unanswered.

[Amrun]

Well that sort of reaction certainly doesn’t make me want to TR you
Outside of what I’d already mentioned, I also believe me and Pyrrha have the same way of using meta, sort of using it as a crutch at times. And I feel like I have done in the past as scum what Pyrrha is doing, which is heavily leaning on that meta crutch and trying to push using that and little else. I get that impression because she is getting fired up about how important the meta is, and re-applying it to Amrun after applying it to shos.
FYI I’m between you and Amrun rn, Pyrrha. I lean towards you but depending on how things develop I could well change my mind.

I am weirded out still how

PN tried to use meta on me

despite likely having never played with me before and it being six years since I played. She also NEVER responded to my questions about that.

Huh?

I already quoted what I was referring to, but honestly I feel like I may have misunderstood the intent of that upon rereading. So I retract it.

[Amrun]

Pyrrah. You’ve been all over the place. Who do you really think is last scum and why?

I also realize that while that post I quoted from amrun said given the flip, the fact that he was voting flicker over amrun means out of the two he thought shos was townier. Idk how you guys play but when somebody compares two players trying to decide who is scimitar and who isn’t. The one he doesn’t vote becomes a town read by default until a flip happens.

So call it semantics or whatever, to me amrun lied. To me he tried to push an alternate lynch to scum and that almost always equals death after a scum flip.

I honestly don’t understand how people aren’t interested in an amrun lynch when their play d1 looks like buddy to shos.

You know this is actually rather solid and I kinda feel Amrun getting hung up on semantics might actually be scum trying to take down the point using false evidence of contrary indication. Though the fact it took you this long to mention how his vote choice figured into it makes that not too strong a feeling (nothing against you though)

I already addressed this long ago. I was not committed to Flicker scum. Flicker was my vote to get out of RVS, and to see what she’d do under pressure. I think the post was EXTREMELY, crystal clear, to be perfectly honest. I don’t think asserting the basic face value of a sentence vs a made-up, nonsensical version of a sentence is playing semantics at ALL.

In regards to your vote on me, it is weak. This awful progression and reasoning knocks you down in my eyes.

I do t particularly mind being lynched today, though. For the morale of the town, the day should end, and as previously stated, I am not a mechanically bad lynch. For inane reasons, I am becoming a distraction so it may be better if I exited here. So do what you will.

[Amrun]

I’m going with the assumption they all are and amrun somehow townread shos which boggles my mind.

I mean this was like shortly after my vote. Him town reading shos was like main reason all along.

No, I never, ever townread shos. You are being belligerent about this.

[Amrun]

Amrun's posting is so genuine and she handled this phase well and kept me safe when I didnt want to play anymore and I dont want to believe she is scum

I am not scum. I do not believe there’s any planet on which you are scum, either.

However, I was in a bad place off the wagon, so I’ll be ok if I am lynched today.

Please, do not lose heart if I am, because with any small amount of thought by town, this game is sooooo solvable. My mislynch may actually help town in a weird way by eliminating me from WIFOM.

[Amrun]

I’ll also go ahead and claim VT.

P-edit: I read it. I understand your thoughts on it. I, however, do not play that way or share that thought.

[Amrun]

don’t pocket me bro

[Amrun]

I am aware he could be town and was just wrong, but why deny that he thought shos was town?

Because I didn’t think he was town

[Amrun]

I am aware he could be town and was just wrong, but why deny that he thought shos was town?

Because I didn’t think he was town

You thought one was town right?

One, or both. But I had not even come close to committing to which one. We have been over this numerous times.

[Amrun]

I could actually do gamma today.

[Amrun]

I have no idea if they can be scum together. it’s not impossible. I’m not going to let pre-flip associations bias my reads.

For what it’s worth, I believe that if Flicker flips scum, shos is town.

Sigh.

This does not support you thinking both.

Why can’t people be honest.

Yes, it does.

I went to university for English and I have very good command of the English language.

Conditional statements such as this are made to support both possibilities. That’s the point of this construction in the language that we are conversing in. There is really nothing else to say.

P-edit: k. I don’t care.

[Amrun]

honest.


Yes, it does.

I went to university for English and I have very good command of the English language.

I’m tempted to say something but I won’t.

It’s like saying, “If it snows, the wedding will be inside” is the same thing as saying “the wedding is inside” before you know whether or not it will snow. You don’t know yet until you get the weather report on that day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_sentence

[Amrun]

honest.


Yes, it does.

I went to university for English and I have very good command of the English language.

I’m tempted to say something but I won’t.

I am not trying to be condescending, though I understand if it came off that way and I apologize. I’m just trying to explain to you that this sentence was not intended to convey what you think it conveys. I have explained it every possible way I know how. It just doesn’t mean that.

[Amrun]

The only thing I know about Dann is he was nominated for a deep wolf type of title.

However, I think there’s very little scum motivation to come in and defend me so strongly at this juncture. I was prime lynchbait material. THE ONLY possible scum benefit is for 3p LyLo. I risk being pocketed, but the chance that this slot is scum has decreased for me by a lot.

I’m not clear where we are sitting on votes at the moment but I think a gamma lynch is decent for the day.

[Amrun]

Well I’ll votepark in power for now to not risk another lolhammer.

VOTE: power

[Amrun]

but would scum really basically sheep their partner's reasons?

It's an easy way to fake a believable town read on your buddy. As you said before, bussing is probably not scum's #1 goal on D1 of a micro. Ideally, they want to establish each other as mutual town reads and cement themselves in a town core. It's only when the ship starts to go down that they would switch to bussing.

Did I mention I actually felt shos was rather suspect a little after agreeing with him but didn’t feel like I was in good spot to just say “hey btw this guy sucked”
Like yeah that’s prolly scummy too but I have reasons to what I did this game

Wut

[Amrun]

Yeah but now Amrun is locked into a position where he can’t push Flicker. Say it’s scum!Amrun Flicker and a conftown in 3p LyLo, Amrun has to find a reasoning for the conftown to vote Flicker that circumvents his past read
(And I know A50 repped in but he didn’t do anything so w/e)

If I was scum, between day 1 and LyLo it would be pretty easy to find a reason to reverse my read.

[Amrun]

I am considering the effectiveness of a mass claim to narrow down our lynch pool given that Drew has already softed something and there's only one scum left.

Thoughts?

This has merit except I worry about a doc or something getting outed.

[Amrun]

Obviously for amrun

NKA, think she’s severely dodging the point you’re making about his Flicker+shos associative, and tied to the last point, it feels like she’s trying to distract from that by making it about the semantics still
But like, why do you ask me this when you were voting her not too long ago?

Yes, my Flicker+shos associative is that they weren’t scum together. THAT’S IT. There is nothing wrong with saying that and I stand by it. Once again, it’s not semantics, but the basic rules of the English language that are being murdered.

I have townread scum before and have no trouble saying it. But I’m not going to let someone just make up some complete bullshit and let it stand. Robb, however, is very genuine in his approach to it, though he is wrong. You, on the other hand - I am not convinced.

[Amrun]

Also, don’t sheep Robb’s old vote on me. State your own reasons. Preferably ones that aren’t ridiculous.

[Amrun]

Oh, sorry, I was using the wrong pronoun for Amrun. Apologies

I feel like mass claims in micro's can be really devastating for scum, especially with a D1 scum lynch.

I'm gonna mull it over a little more

I’m tempted. Especially now that Drew has softed.

[Amrun]

Gamma, what do you think of ethos/shos interactions from Day 1?

[Amrun]

My readlist rn goes something like this
town
robb
amrun

dann

null
ethos
drew

gamma
scum

note that pyrah would have been much lower on the list than dann is, so far I like his posts more than pyrah's

This list seems parroted

[Amrun]

Gamma, what do you think of ethos/shos interactions from Day 1?

Don’t remember any explicitly, maybe eth0s shaded shos once or twice?

It’s more significant than that. If you’re town trying to solve, you should reread.

[Amrun]

We just need to move forward with one or the other at some point here. It’s like crickets in here.

[Amrun]

What is your read of gamma slot, Drew?

[Amrun]

I've reread shos, Gamma, and power's ISOs a few times and I come away still wanting to lynch Gamma.

I am exceedingly not worried about power27. Like it's not impossible they're scum, but I now find their ISO very pure. Overall, they have no agenda and tbh, I'm not worried about them end-gaming at all.

On the other hand I don't find Gamma's progression on either shos or Amrun very believable at all, coming from someone who does have recent experience with Gamma.

I would like to get a claim from Gamma.

Truthfully I agree on all counts.


Gamma, claim please.

[Amrun]

does a deepwolf!dann later become apparent due to PoE?

In this game, yes.

Dr Drew is apparently confirmable.

Robb town
Ethos town
Amrun town (from my perspective at least)

Without shenanigans, we can lynch down gamma -> power -> and still have time to nail the last scum.

Obviously from my perspective, if we get there, and dan is still alive, it’s obvious IMO. Of course if it’s like me, Dan, someone else, I might get mislynched at that point, but that’s something we would have to duke out at that point.

What do you think?

[Amrun]

That post was poorly stated because I’m at work and distracted but hopefully you get the idea.

[Amrun]

Ethos, did you see my post?

[Amrun]

Ethos, did you see my post?

672? Yeah, why?

Because I asked what you thought about dann making it to endgame as scum.


@Power, yes, claim

[Amrun]

Ethos, did you see my post?

672? Yeah, why?

Because I asked what you thought about dann making it to endgame as scum.

oh I thought that was directed at everyone. I'm not usually one to line lynches up like that (which from my understanding is what you're saying with power/gamma) and there's way too many variables for me to try and look ahead like that. I did, however, put some thought into dann and I think that his alignment eventually would become apparent but I'm also v worried about him making it to a lylo that I'm not in. I don't mean that to be a dick, but I do like to maintain a certain amount of control in the game and I think if scum!him makes it to lylo it would probably take a guilty or equivalent to hang him depending on who he makes it to lylo with.

I did say that with the assumption that it was presumed that the lynch candidates / lynch order could change, dictated by gamestate, but, granted.

In your shoes, I understand this concern. I believe I will probably make it to LyLo due to lynch ability, if we get that far.

My main point I was trying to make is I’m ok not lynching him today and re-evaluating if slots I currently think have a higher chance of flipping scum (power, gamma) in fact flip town. I do not discount danscum but have decided it doesn’t matter this game day.

[Amrun]

It’s been proven already what I want doesn’t matter. I don’t care who gets lynched anymore.

We all consider what you want, and take it into account. You just don’t get to not care what other people want, because mafia is a team sport.

Personally, I would love to hear your thoughts on this one.

[Amrun]

Ok I think we should full claim at this point.

I’ll confirm I didn’t go anywhere.

[Amrun]

For whatever it’s worth I don’t think gamma is scum because of L-1

[Amrun]

Like I consider that part NAI

[Amrun]

Well shit I just realized I claimed VT earlier so tracking me would be an easy fakeclaim. :/ still though clearing me there would be a weird scum claim.

My vote is spiritually on gamma.

[Amrun]

If he’s fake claiming he isn’t winning. He did call you town near the start of the day out of the blue. So he’s legit or he decided to fake claim and clear you overnight. Which seems most likely?

Definitely that he’s town. (Hence my spiritual vote on gamma.)

[Amrun]

Intent to hammer gamma. This game is stagnating.


Please state your last words everyone.

[Amrun]

I'm pretty sure power has to be town at this point and I'll guard that read pretty closely

Agree.

I think this game just became pretty easy TBH.

Though not sure I like dr drew calling himself confirmed for being neighborizer? But still. I am quite hopeful we end this here.

[Amrun]

I'm pretty sure power has to be town at this point and I'll guard that read pretty closely

Agree.

I think this game just became pretty easy TBH.

Though not sure I like dr drew calling himself confirmed for being neighborizer? But still. I am quite hopeful we end this here.

Huh?

Are you not neighborizer?

That role in and of itself is NAI, imo. But hopefully irrelevant. Thinking Gamma is the scum here.

[Amrun]

Yup

[Amrun]

Who is scum, Dr Drew?

Power, scum trackers exist.

[Amrun]

I would go back to power.....though power questioning if a role can be scum alingned is oddly familiar lol.

Though the timing is suspect.

Power is almost definitely town here.

[Amrun]

Drew's waffling here is towny, but I don't think whatever he saw from Gamma makes Gamma town necessarily

Agree. I don’t see scum trying to swerve from gamma to power here.

[Amrun]

I mean ethos is also somebody that needs to be looked at also.

If gamma isn’t scum I’ll re-evaluate but I very strongly felt that his day 1 push on shos made him town.

Shos would not have been lynched without this. It created the momentum IMO

[Amrun]

Yeah I’m digging it now. Just wanted to make sure we were ready.

VOTE: gamma

2 days, 2 scum lynched.

Let the legend happen, baby.

[Amrun]

Yeah like
Your response to me questioning you asserting you were confirmable feels a bit mild for thinking the role wasn’t one scum could have

Please clarify.

[Amrun]

Yeah like
Your response to me questioning you asserting you were confirmable feels a bit mild for thinking the role wasn’t one scum could have

Please clarify.

I asked how he was confirmable in the PT and he said “I could confirm him” pretty much. If he were thinking his role was town-only I feel like he would have been a bit more assertive about it

I kind of feel the opposite. If he thought you confirming he neighborized you was as good as confirming him as Town, why would he need to be more assertive?

I take it this means you are not scum

[Amrun]

Well a scum roleblocker would have to choose between killing and RB. So it’s pretty solid.

[Amrun]

Most people are claimed so we need to mass claim.

I’m still a VT sooooo.

[Amrun]

I rethought tracking drew and decided it was a really stupid idea, he was confirm town before gamma flipped
I asked penguin about mafia being able to do multiple actions, and he said they can't, which apparently is a thing in normal games
There was a town in drew/gamma, both of them agreed that drew is neighborizer so drew is neighborizer and couldn't have killed n1

I tracked ethos last night and he went nowhere
Used my last tracker shot.

This is a good fucking point. Drew actually is conftown.

[Amrun]

Well a scum roleblocker would have to choose between killing and RB. So it’s pretty solid.

Was multitasking ever explained?

Explained to me?

I didn’t think multitasking was normal.

[Amrun]

@mod: can you confirm that scum is not multitasking - even if scum is only scum alive?

[Amrun]

Honestly I think this is pretty easy now.

It has to be within {eth0s, Robb, Dannflor}.

I’m pretty ok risking the game on power town at this point. Robb too.

Which leaves me with ethos and Pyrrha/dannflor, both of which I thought was town for other reasons. :/

I need to re-evaluate.

[Amrun]

I'm trying to figure out what the likelihood of Robbnva hard bussing is. I can't find any games where he's done that before though so probably he's just town

I just got deep fucking dicked by a very similar play in a mini normal I replaced into. It’s certainly possible. But something about Robb just tells me to go with my gut that he’s town.

By default being the operative term here

Yes we could have multitasking scum. But multitasking neighborizing scum seems so meh. By play alone though I would lynch Drew today.

[Amrun]

It has to be within {eth0s, Robb, Dannflor}.

Uh. Why is my name in your list?

As I stated in the sentence below that, I don’t think you’re scum. That list is the people that aren’t ME or mechanically cleared. But I may have been too hasty excluding Drew.

[Amrun]

Yes we could have multitasking scum. But multitasking neighborizing scum seems so meh. By play alone though I would lynch Drew today.

Yeah, that's where I'm stumped. Mechanically I'd want to lynch eth0s. By play I'd want to lynch Drew.

I might pick you over eth0s, but one of you, yes. I need to do some deep diving to pick between mechanical vs play and then differentiate between you two if I go mechanical.

Since I hate when dead player’s reads are ignored, gamma suspected Drew.

[Amrun]

Not using role cause afraid of tracker makes no sense.

It was made public who Power was probably going to track. Plus, me neighboring someone doesn't hard clear me. People already threw out the idea I could be scum neighborizer.

In my head, the risk didn't outweigh the reward.

And I wasn't afraid of the tracker, afraid if scum manipulating the tracker.

Scum manipulating how?

[Amrun]

Who is scum, eth0s?

[Amrun]

I actually think the Almost kill could have been to frame me like gamma posited. Idk.

[Amrun]

@dann. If I did change my vote it would actually be gamma. He’s really pinging my gut. My brain and gut are basically fighting. Gamma would definitely leave me alive.

I think my NKA is actually quite valid
Amrun stayed he didn’t think Flicker was scum with shos, so with shos flipping scum who becomes unlynchable to Amrun?

Yeah but now Amrun is locked into a position where he can’t push Flicker. Say it’s scum!Amrun Flicker and a conftown in 3p LyLo, Amrun has to find a reasoning for the conftown to vote Flicker that circumvents his past read
(And I know A50 repped in but he didn’t do anything so w/e)

Like obviously I am not scum, but I was a pretty obvious ML target on D2, so this is the best sense I can make out of the kill now that gamma has flipped town (since I originally thought he was afraid of A50).

It’s still a weird af kill. Seriously. So this is reaching at straws. Idk.

[Amrun]

The fact that Robb isn’t dead does bother me. Please don’t be a deepwolf. I need to not lose to that two games in a row.

[Amrun]

I don't know how to interpret eth0s implying that basically everyone is town?

I can’t decide if it’s a town tell or scum tell, real talk

[Amrun]

Also. Weird question. Can normals have ninja?

Yes

[Amrun]

I want to hear from eth0s who he thinks is scum.

Dann too - who is scum here?

[Amrun]

My gut still says eth0s town.

eth0s, mod said no multitasking by default, which to me means multitasking modifier could exist.

[Amrun]

My heart is going back to dann but dann has claimed BG and has the least motivation to no kill.


I want to re-examine the shos interactions from day 1. I will find time ASAP.

[Amrun]

for Dann to be scum you have to think Pyrrah did all that noise as scum to distract from shos. I can actually see that. I mentioned that earlier.

I strongly read Pyrrha as doing this, yes. Dann certainly improved the slot.

I don’t really think neighborizer affects balance much as scum OR town.

In fact I think neighborizer and goon vs town bg/tracker is townsided.

My mind is full of fuck!

[Amrun]

I just don’t know why scum power clears me like that. The way he said I was town before he outted seemed genuine. That is a very good play for newbscum.

But boy would I be HOT to lose to that -.-

Distinct possibility I am considering:

Power tracked me to PR hunt. Or lied about tracking me since I already claimed VT.

Shit.

I do feel like town bg and neighborizer is more balanced vs a goon and a scum tracker. I would say he’s faking the claim entirely except I don’t think eth0s had claimed VT before he claimed to track him to nowhere - or am I misremembering the order?

[Amrun]

Welp.

Idk why he no killed though. But that doesn’t make sense from anyone.

[Amrun]

I keep coming back to power.

P-edit: agree, if Drew doesn’t neighbor again, he needs to absolutely go

[Amrun]

Actually, yeah

He is quite literally the only player who has to no kill in order to have a chance at winning the game. If he kills anyone else he guilties himself.

How is it a guilty?

[Amrun]

That’s true.


VOTE: power

[Amrun]

if power is scum, this is a good example of why people shouldn't claim their roles. Scum faked tracker and can easily throw believable BS results cause he knows who is what

Even if he is scum, he was forced to clear me to try and save himself.

People should always claim at L-1.

And massclaiming is helping us solve this game. It should have been done more systematically but whatever.

[Amrun]

eth0s, do you think power is scum?

[Amrun]

Nah just hammer

[Amrun]

Dann, who did you protect?

Drew, who did you neighbor?

[Amrun]

I want dann to claim his target before I comment.

[Amrun]

This is fucking MyLo and this sucks.

I want to vote Dann but Drew probably needs to be the lynch today.

It is pretty obvious that scum would have to kill outside of me. Kill me, they actually just kill dann and confirm dannslot, and I’m still alive anyway.

With Robb essentially confirmed as well, this play makes sense from scum. And if dann is scum, he would want to play in a way to obfuscate that. The play is the same no matter who the scum is.


What doesn’t make sense is Drew’s play from town. This was extremely predictable set of actions, so to think Drew wouldn’t know that and go for Robb, very likely to eat a bullet, is meh AF.

The problem is that there are tons of times town makes stupid fucking plays.

Shit.

[Amrun]

Yes.

[Amrun]

Sorry. Got distracted.


I agree overall. Drew seems the type to drown in WIFOM. Plus, the night 1 flicker kill is REALLY important.

I wish I knew more about what type of player Pyyrah Nikos would be likely to NK. Or you.

[Amrun]

I have consistently felt that eth0s/shos day 1 interaction was not scum v scum but here we are in endgame, forcing me to re-eval.

[Amrun]

Oof. Immediately after that I remembered someone told me that 1 mon normal role is permitted in a normal game. But I also dont know if that's true or if game size is a factor there.

I hate trying to solve shit based on roles

Not anymore it’s not. But 1 shot multitasking would be allowed, yes.


Get the tinfoil off about me. If I’m mislynched in MyLo I’ll be pissed.

[Amrun]

I keep thinking I'd rather lose to scum!eth0s than scum!Drew at this point

Me too tbh.

[Amrun]

Every time I read eth0s I think the same thing, that he’s not shos partner. But I get stuck on the N1 flicker kill with Drew every time.


Eth0s, what’s your experience with A50?

[Amrun]

But how did he kill flicker N1?

[Amrun]

Every time I read eth0s I think the same thing, that he’s not shos partner. But I get stuck on the N1 flicker kill with Drew every time.


Eth0s, what’s your experience with A50?

988

I forgot you answered that, sorry.

Bleh.

[Amrun]

VOTE: no lynch

[Amrun]

I was neighborized.

I hate whoever is scum rn. Gdi

[Amrun]

Yeah this is same shit.

Only thing is it helps Drew slightly. Proves they weren’t JOAT.

[Amrun]

I really don't think I need to no kill to win this game in a hypothetical me!scum world?

Like I don't think I'd be scared enough of Drew to need to keep trying to frame him

Um, but if you as scum killed, you would put yourself as scum.

[Amrun]

*out, not put

[Amrun]

Like I don’t understand that post from your perspective, because as scum, you’re the only one who has to keep no killing, or downright lose.

Actually that makes me feel like you’re scum.

[Amrun]

Because .... you’ve claimed bodyguard. Any scum that’s not you has no incentive to kill drew or eth0s.

Obviously it COULD happen. But you have the strongest incentive to no kill of those left, for sure.

[Amrun]

If you’re not scum, scum have 3 choices:

1) no kill

2) kill me, which actually just kills you

3) kill whomever of {drew, eth0s} isn’t scum

Killing me (you) puts me, Drew, eth0s into LyLo. Whichever one is scum has a viable chance to win.

No killing increases the WIFOM, but increases townies alive, so it’s a tossup and probably not worth it.

Killing out of {drew, eth0s} COULD work, but it would be mostly to frame you. I think optimal scum LyLo is Drew, eth0s, Amrun.

However, if YOU are scum, you face a more challenging situation. Your choices are:

1) No kill

2) kill me

3) kill one of {Drew, eth0s}


Choice 1 is viable for Dan scum. It’s a game of patience with the town. Eventually, we will get tired and lynch someone.

Choice 2 is very, very bad for Dan scum. It’s akin to a claim.

Choice 3 is all you got, and makes you look bad in LyLo. You’re probably lynched in LyLo in this situation.

[Amrun]

If I were dannscum, I would absolutely choose the war of attrition.

[Amrun]

I’ll counter that with a question: who do you think you could “beat” in LyLo, given your claim, as town?

[Amrun]

Do you disagree that you have the MOST incentive to NK?

[Amrun]

NK meaning no kill... poor phrasing.

[Amrun]

What kind of scum role do you think balances against flipped town power + your power?

[Amrun]

I would think quite a few

like I don't think that's an outrageous scenario?

It’s not outrageous. Just wanted a few examples from you specifically.

[Amrun]

If I thought it was impossible you’re town bg, I’d be voting you.

[Amrun]

There’s also Drew’s neighborizer claim. That’s a lot of town power for a micro with a flipped goon.

[Amrun]

I can’t decide. I’m indulging my tinfoil for a bit.

[Amrun]

Is neighborizer actually consider power? Like does it add EV in either direction

I have seen it considered a weak investigative. Vi, who invented the role, considered it that.

In actuality, I don’t know.

[Amrun]

Agree, that would suck.

[Amrun]

I think I’d like to try once more though.

[Amrun]

VOTE: no lynch

[Amrun]

Fucking annoying.

I want to take a back seat and let everyone else air their final suspicions before I proceed. Thanks.

[Amrun]

Why will I follow the path of least resistance, regardless of alignment?

[Amrun]

Why will I follow the path of least resistance, regardless of alignment?

Considering it makes the least sense for this continued mylo to come from scum!you, I believe the town apathy vibes I've been getting from you surrounding the no-kill/draw scenario are genuine. One of dann/drew will eventually vote me, the other will follow suit, and then you likely hammer it when you don't feel like casing out a better alternative. Is this not how you'd play it if (when) this goes down?

I don’t have any town apathy, or minimal. I am very invested in this game. I am playing closefisted on purpose to avoid giving a roadmap to scum. I don’t what gave you that impression and it kind of concerns me. Do you think the path of least resistance was duking it out with Pyrrha? That’s not how I play at all.

I’m in a unique position this game and sharing my full thoughts is antitown until the moment of truth comes.

[Amrun]

How come?

[Amrun]

Oh, and not an alt per se. Used to have a different account here years ago, FuDuzn. When I came back I wanted to start fresh with a new name.

Aside: I remember this account!!

[Amrun]

Talk about what?

do you wanna talk more about why you think I'm scum?

Does it purely have to do with mechanics or do you find things in my play to scum read as well

Mainly mechanical.

I just can't see scumEthos not attempting to kill Amrun.

How come?

[Amrun]

Eth0s, let me know when you’re ready!

[Amrun]

Eth0s, if he is, as scum, saying he wouldn’t bus with 2 scum, why would he do it here?

Or did he do it in the quoted game, is that your point?

[Amrun]

Sorry guys, weekend near holiday kicked my butt. Will address this today.

[Amrun]

I’ve been thinking about this game a lot. It’s driving me nuts, actually.

Here’s my continual sticking point:

By play, it’s always Drew.

By setup, it really can’t be Drew. Town tracker and BG vs neighborizer, who MUST be multitasking to make the theory work?

It’s troubling because Drew is really obviously kind of spewing whatever I profess to think. That’s problematic. Yet I am conftown so town could do worse.

I’m going to be really upset if I choose wrong and I’m being a little tortuous about it.

[Amrun]

Drew was very first on the wagon, too, which just doesn’t seem like scum timing or placement.


And this as well. This was the basis of my eth0s town read:

Shos weirdly picking me at random to be "reaction test"-ed and then never following up on it was weird. Then the way that he jumped on robbnva felt unnatural and mechanical. I think occam's razor says the whole thing is scum motivated and people are overthinking it

VOTE: shos

It’s so very on the nose, not a waffling stance at all, and turns Drew’s lone vote into a wagon with pressure where shos starts to flail.

This post, in context, is the main reason I came into day 2 with eth0s as my strongest townread by far.


Today, though, I haven’t been impressed with his case against Drew. It seems like a stretch - second hand meta to explain an early bus, multitasking to explain the night kill...

[Amrun]

Eth0s.... can you tell me why you won’t vote Dan with me?

[Amrun]

I convinced myself out of the night kill thing; I think that could come from any scum at this juncture after further thought on the issue.

However, pyyrah’s play day 1 easily, EASILY looks most like a bus. The reason I mentally disregarded him for later was because on dan’s entrance, I looked like the likely lynch and he kind of reversed that momentum, but I was also gunning for that slot, so here in late game, this is a lot less compelling.


Today, his play has looked the most pro town and solvey.

Because life hates me.

[Amrun]

I actually feel the opposite; I have, consistently since day 2, felt that eth0s’ play surrounding shos did not look like a buddy. Of the three of you, I picked your slot for a bus on day 1. Drew was actually the FIRST person to vote shos, and then waffled all around it but never actually removed his vote. That also doesn’t feel buddy.

I tend to shoot myself in the foot when i tinfoil something I reacted to so strongly, which is what gives me pause on eth0s.

I’m drowning in wine.

[Amrun]

It’s also really hard to clear Drew off of only setup WIFOM. At the very least, it feels bad to do so.

Yes, it’s really difficult. However, ignoring setup seems wrong and stupid.

Also, I do think day 1 shos interaction is more likely to be town for Drew, but possible to be scum.

[Amrun]

It’s about the timing of eth0s’ vote for me.

Robb and shos were cross voting. Drew added a little pressure to shos but, not until eth0s’ vote did it solidify into a wagon.

Of course third on the wagon isn’t a bad slot for scum, but he came out gunning strong. It turned the pressure up to 11 when the pressure of Robb and Drew’s vote in context was very little, IMO. If it was a bus, it was a very strong bus, and a decision right then to abandon shos, which was fairly early to make that decision, IMO.

NOT IMPOSSIBLE though. Ugh.

[Amrun]

Drew, what if I wanted to pivot onto wth0s? What would you do?

[Amrun]

Not that I’ve decided to do that. Jesus Christ.

Dann, what about you?


And eth0s, will you vote Dann with me if it comes down to it? If not, why?