Micro 904: Radja's Story Episode 1 - GAME OVER

[Zenith]

But yea, if we are going to try to clear someone just for me to definitely get mislynched afterwards anyways, might as well skip all that and just end this.

[Zenith]

Lol, i legit dunno what I can do in this situation. All I can say is that I'm legit town and hoping for a win, but expecting failure. So it kind of sucks. Like i'd honestly prefer not getting mislynched, but I'd also honestly prefer getting mislynched sooner rather than later if there really is no way to avoid it.

I mean, if you decide we try to clear someone, and we succeed, and then you hammer me afterwards, well what was the point in waiting? Who is playing mind games with who in that scenario?

[Zenith]

I'm not consciously trying to jedi mind trick you or anything, just being real, while also looking for any possible hope despite the grim outlook. Though if crediting some jedi mind trick or something manages to somehow change the course of the game, I wouldn't complain.

[Zenith]

Pre-in for episode 2.
Hope that doesn't put anyone else off. I'll try to be less abrasive so hopefully avoid another D1 tvt death tunnel. I'm still likely to be lynch bait though.

[Zenith]

VOTE: Zenith

I'm sorry. ):

Wish you could have believed me just cuz Saitama or something. But oh well, thanks for not dragging it out needlessly.

[Zenith]

Pre-in for episode 2.

Sry forgot maybe should bold.

But yea I'm interested in all the episodes. Maybe the familiarity will come in handy some day.

[Zenith]

Uhm yea.. Due to being the only one to defend your partner, my fate was pretty much sealed after their flip.

Doubt there was anything I could have done after that to change things. Would have been difficult to maybe get uncrowned on my side, but i definitely wasn't going to convince LGC of being wrong about you.

[Zenith]

However Gamma has been super townie here all game and I have a perfect BoP as regards to correctly tr him, since MD. There has been no game since MD, where I said Gamma was town and been wrong, so I stand by that read.

This doesn't seem like a good attitude to have. Either you will eventually be wrong about Gamma, or you have some secret trust tell.

[Zenith]

For the record, i still think the case vs amrun was trash. Regardless of alignment i tend to try avoiding lying as much as possible. So when I'm telling you things, those are my honest thoughts and opinions. Even as scum typically the only thing I'll tend to lie about is my alignment, and I'll avoid doing that unless I feel a need to because I've an aversion to dishonesty.

If I push someone, I may or may not be scum reading them, but either way I'm probably trying to prove my read on someone.

Anyways, my reading and overall play should hopefully improve with time. Maybe you'll get better at reading me too, or not. I dunno.

[Zenith]

Never claimed that bastard roles means the game is unbalanced. Never even claimed the game is unbalanced.

The game description says: "Balance is not guaranteed."
So I presumed, "Balance is not guaranteed." To mean that balance isn't guaranteed. As in may or may not be balanced.

[Zenith]

And I read may contain bastard roles to mean that since we don't know what roles scum are, and they could be potentially weird roles, how can you even determine whether or not the game is balanced without knowing what roles scum have?

But I also said that setup spec isn't something I'm strong in. It would have helped of there was something other than pure setup spec in the case vs amrun, because pure setup spec doesn't seem like a strong argument given the potential for scum bastard roles + balance not being guaranteed.

[Zenith]

Not guaranteed != not aimed for, though

Never said not guaranteed = not aimed for. Not guaranteed = not guaranteed, right?

[Zenith]

The case against Amrun wasn't trash. I think after you've played on the site for a little while longer you'll realize why the claim being made when it was was pretty bad. "Bastard" doesn't mean the game is unbalanced.

+1

Amrun’s claim, after flipped cop, bg and confirmed vig, meant that either she logically had to be scum or that the game was seriously broken, which I kept trying to tell Zenith.

So you are claiming it is impossible to balance in town tracker? even with potential bastard roles, no possible scum roles could have made for a balanced setup?

[Zenith]

Im trying to understand how no possible scum roles could have made for a balanced setup. I don't know how many times i have to say that setup spec isn't one of my strengths.

[Zenith]

I mean if someone had said there are no possible scum roles that could allow for balanced setup given town tracker, and could somehow show ot, then maybe I would have found the argument convincing.

[Zenith]

The case against Amrun wasn't trash. I think after you've played on the site for a little while longer you'll realize why the claim being made when it was was pretty bad. "Bastard" doesn't mean the game is unbalanced.

+1

Amrun’s claim, after flipped cop, bg and confirmed vig, meant that either she logically had to be scum or that the game was seriously broken, which I kept trying to tell Zenith.

So you are claiming it is impossible to balance in town tracker? even with potential bastard roles, no possible scum roles could have made for a balanced setup?

Who was left? I knew we were vt and that meant that even if Gamma were scum pr, the game had to be seriously broken.

at the time, there was 2 scum alive.

[Zenith]

2 scum who could have been any role including bastard roles.

[Zenith]

I don't know the list of all possible roles. But just making up roles in my head I don't see how it would be impossible to get a roughly balanced setup somehow. But again and again i say i'm not strong at setup spec because I lack the experience, and knowledge of all possible roles, etc.

I'd like to understand, but I currently don't.

Is the claim that there is no possible way to balance town track and the rest of town roles vs any 2 mystery scum roles with potential bastard roles?

[Zenith]

If you admit you didn't know, why act like you did?

Pretty sure i was clear about not being an expert at setup spec. But I know there are a shit ton of potential roles and find it difficult to believe there is no way for that setup to have been balanced.

I agree it’s unbalanced with the current information we had; like I said, I originally assumed this was a vanillaless game based on my role PM. I can only assume that scum must have a power that makes it make sense. I’m not going to lie about my role just because I’m worried about how external balance will appear. That’s dumb.

Propose a power that balances things.

Vanillizer. Role stopper. Some crazy JOAT. There’s several things.

If you want, I could take all the town roles including town tracker, and ask in new mafia discussion discussion thread if there are any 2 possible scum roles including bastard roles that would make for a mostly balanced setup.

[Zenith]

Rarely can you point to two specific points in the game and say "if, at these two points, something had gone differently, the game would have gone differently."

Both town lynches are arguably largely your fault. If you had posted L-1 when you voted me, and if you hadn't opposed the Amrun push when you admit to not knowing what was happening, I doubt either of us would have gotten lynched.

Yea after amrun flipped, town was screwed. Specially with Gamma being blinded, I had no chance. Even if I had voted amrun though, if endgame had the same cast I still doubt I could have convinced LGC to vote Gamma.

Also, I didn't know you were at L-1 or I'd have stated L-1 when I voted you. I usually try to clearly mark when voting someone to L-1, and also to state intent to hammer and give a chance for final words before hammering, out of common courtesy. It had been a long time since the last VC and a lot of mess I didn't really want to sift through again to count. Plus the way you were acting, I didnt really care if you got lynched.

Blame me for your death if you want, but it takes 2 to tango and your play wasn't exactly better than my play D1. Your play was arguably worse than my D1 play considering at least I wasn't a PR, and I tried multiple times to break away from the tvt death tunnel but you just weren't having it. So maybe take some advice from this brainless no-nothing and the next time someone repeatedly tries to give you an out of the death tunnel you find yourself in, maybe take the out.

I'm not claiming to be the best mafia player ever, nor am I claiming to never make mistakes.

[Zenith]

So you had no part in that tvt death tunnel? I was just talking to myself or something? Lol. I'm not the one who hammered you, but If you were at L-1 I probably would have stated intent to hammer though.

In all honesty though, if you hadn't insisted on constantly dragging me back into your mess, if you had just taken the out and let me go elsewhere, I would have gone elsewhere and wouldn't have even been voting for you. Thats on you bruh..

[Zenith]

But no, 5 votes on you, all my fault. You had perfect play and I'm just the worst turd ever dropped. Ok, got it.

[Zenith]

Odd Night Cop
Bodyguard
Tracker
1-shot Vig
3x VT

Vs any 2 scum roles. Bastard roles allowed.

If I were to post this somewhere else on site, you don't think anyone could balance this setup?

[Zenith]

Just because you were freaking out like it's your first time playing mafia and someone voted you for the first time doesn't make something a death tunnel.

Uhm.. We were tunneling each other, and the result was you died. Is that not what a death tunnel is?

That said, your play was contradicting itself consistently, and for that reason I would take a serious break and re-examine before I re-approached if I were you. Just a heads up, though.

I don't recall contradicting myself anywhere.

[Zenith]

Just for the record, I wanted to lynch Gamma at the end there. Which, if town had gone along with me on that, would have resulted in town win. JS
=p