Micro 904: Radja's Story Episode 1 - GAME OVER

[Amrun]

VOTE: Asriel

For spelling Dreamers that way.

[Amrun]

hmmm which of those entrances annoyed me more

eh I’ll compromise

VOTE: gemerl

It took me awhile to notice - who is this vote for?

[Amrun]

hmmm which of those entrances annoyed me more

eh I’ll compromise

VOTE: gemerl

It took me awhile to notice - who is this vote for?

gemerl

g emerl

g emeral

g emerald

gamma emerald

I don’t think those letters are configured the way you think they are.

[Amrun]

Hello, Amrun.

How do you feel about the no kill last night?

[gifv] https://images.app.goo.gl/Kp5Yhic477GN6Sxu7 [/gifv]

[Amrun]

That didn’t work. Click the link.

[Amrun]

mass flavor claim i meant lol not roles if anyone was thinking that my bad

Mate, scums very likely recieved a safeclaim (name of a character noone plays with) with their role.
Nevertheless outing flavour might help flavour cop (if there is any).
Does anyone see a way how revealing our names could hurt us?

Flavor likely is relevant to role. I’m against it.

[Amrun]

Flavor likely is relevant to role. I’m against it.

May you enlighten me, mate, how claiming name and partner may make our roles a public knowledge?

Occupation: cop

Just look right at the opening post.

I’m not for introducing that type of WIFOM for scum to pick off our PRs.

[Amrun]

Is anyone here good at mafia?

No.



Re: flavor claiming.

Like no it probably wouldn’t be a big deal either way, but it’s really unlikely to help the town, and has an off chance of hurting town. So let’s not. No one has made a viable argument for why it’s helpful.

[Amrun]

Honestly, nothing too exciting. A couple of slight town leans. My toddler is sick and throwing up while we are traveling out of state for the holiday so my mindscape is kind of occupied.

[Amrun]

I'm noticing a rather large quantity of seemingly pointless fluff.

VOTE: Zenith

I did mean to do this, though.

Because this post is gross.



Uncrowned is my top pick for town. He seems to be vomiting whatever is on his mind, which is not well thought out. He’d probably think more first if scum.

[Amrun]

Enter, why are you playing so close to the chest?

[Amrun]

Enter, why are you playing so close to the chest?

I'm trying something new. I like how it worked for me in Perfect Masquerade and so I think I'll do it a bit longer.

I have a theory that this is at least slightly more optimal for several reasons (some that I won't discuss right now) but one of them is that it causes discussion to be slightly less tailored and scripted based on what players think others are thinking, and I think that makes people more uncomfortable and more likely to play with a little less mask.

I didn’t read this game - were you town? Scum? Did you win?

[Amrun]

I’m behind on this game.

Hope to catch up soon. Holidays etc. My toddler just learned all the motions to wheels on the bus, so it’s an exciting time over here.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Zenith

Can’t believe this took so long
My impression is that Enter could be trying to deal with a rather pricklish newb mafia partner in Zenith rn

You think scum team would D1 death tunnel each other and spotlight themselves for.. For why?

Because of WIFOM, mate.

Ah,

WIFOM.

A full on mutual death-tunnel also means one of them is very likely to be lynched today, and the remaining scum has to survive till the end whilest dodging all investigative checks, and their interactions with their scumbuddy not being found out as scum theatre.
This isn't SvS.

-Hectic

Just finished a game where scum did this when neither was going to be lynched. They won in LyLo because of it. Not that I disagree here; think this is unlikely to be SvS in this case. Just saying.


Trying to catch up, y’all.

[Amrun]

The thought of a slot talking to itself and having multiple, sometimes contradictory perspectives kind of disturbs me. I've been suspicious of haggle throughout the game, but taking my inexperience in dealing with hydra as a reason to not want to suspect them. Again wanting to cut out a potential bias by over balancing in the opposite direction, for no good reason other than to act as a weight to counter-balance said bias.

I find that suspicion to be growing though, for.. I'll call them gut reasons that maybe I'll be more specific about later if it keeps pinging my radar negatively. Suffice for now to say that I could see an Enter/Haggle scum team.

This is standard hydra fare. Why is it scummy?

[Amrun]

The thought of a slot talking to itself and having multiple, sometimes contradictory perspectives kind of disturbs me. I've been suspicious of haggle throughout the game, but taking my inexperience in dealing with hydra as a reason to not want to suspect them. Again wanting to cut out a potential bias by over balancing in the opposite direction, for no good reason other than to act as a weight to counter-balance said bias.

I find that suspicion to be growing though, for.. I'll call them gut reasons that maybe I'll be more specific about later if it keeps pinging my radar negatively. Suffice for now to say that I could see an Enter/Haggle scum team.

This is standard hydra fare. Why is it scummy?

It's not scummy. I gave reasoning as to why I've wanted to not suspect them, and noted that despite this my suspicions are growing. I didn't post the reasoning for my suspicion, yet. For now, my thoughts on haggle are mostly in my notes PT.

Why haven’t you shared that?

[Amrun]

No, claiming is bad.

[Amrun]

Yes, I know that everyone is ostensibly a cop. But people can offer up things that suck, like Zenith did. Why would he do that. There is nothing good for town in the WIFOM he posted about his role.

The fact that he did it makes me less sure he’s scum, though I dislike that he has yet to answer the question about where he got his sureness that scum have fake claims.

There is no benefit to flavor claiming. No one has convinced me of that.

[Amrun]

Zenith: when I decide to share a read openly in the thread, I share why, yes. I find not doing so scummy.

[Amrun]

I just can't see any drawbacks to a mass claim, but can see positives where it may help people who benefit from knowing their partners. Whatever.

-Hectic

Do you, personally, have such a role? I mean feel free not to answer but from this perspective I can understand wanting a flavor claim.

[Amrun]

Also, I'm not a he.

Apologies.

Have you ever been scum and been provided fake claims?

[Amrun]

Also, I'm not a he.

Apologies.

Have you ever been scum and been provided fake claims?

Nope, I was scum in a newbie game with no need for mod provided safe/fake claims.

What is your experience with fake claims otherwise?

[Amrun]

If you think I made an error about the safeclaims then by all means please poke holes in it. Argument is either flawed or it isn't, regardless of who made the argument, so I don't see how my history is relevant here.

I do think it’s relevant, though. Refusal to answer noted.

[Amrun]

Relevant how?

I’m trying to determine if I think you know scum have fake claims because you are scum. It won’t work now that I’ve told you.

[Amrun]

Uhhh.. Again, I know there are safeclaims because there are 9 players, 11 flavor names, and 9 of those are town aligned flavor names..

That doesn’t mean mod assigned scum fake claims. It makes it more likely but not certain.

[Amrun]

But why? All of our occupations are cops, Amrun.

-Hectic

We could be cops but have different roles setup wise

Like pls think

This looks like a townslip. I was obvtown reading you anyway but this just adds to it.

~N

This is not a town slip. It’s basic common sense.

If everyone wants to flavor claim, I’ll participate, but I disagree.

There’s already been WIFOM about if Victor is a PR and I’d like not to play into scum hands this way.

[Amrun]

No one claimed Victor but there’s already speculation about it.

Mass name claim isn’t the end of the world but it is extremely unlikely to be helpful in any way. But it doesn’t really matter and I’m kinda tired of talking about it.

[Amrun]

If we agree to this, I don’t care what order I go. First, whatever. But consensus first.

[Amrun]

No, I don’t know that. However, I think it’s exceedingly likely so this is an exercise in futility.

But after some points raised here I think there’s less negative utility than I thought, so whatever.

The main reason I opposed it is not because of the claim itself because of the discussion around it that would be harmful, which has already happened, so whatever, can’t stop that now.

[Amrun]

So I’m a vig and shot Haggle because the hammer made them necessary to be resolved

Good shot. I was going to come in and vote them.

Like sad that they flipped town but it would have made a lot of noise today. Good shot. Very townie shot. Chemist is conftown to me.

[Amrun]

Who the fuck is flowey?

And Asriel is obviously a tree stump, it’s not like we are re-inventing the wheel here. Pretty obvious.

[Amrun]

Who the fuck is flowey?

And Asriel is obviously a tree stump, it’s not like we are re-inventing the wheel here. Pretty obvious.

someone hasn’t played undertale

No, I haven’t. Maybe it’s not so obvious. I definitely assumed it though.

[Amrun]

Flowey, are you Asriel?

Replace yourself, then. It’s too confusing.

[Amrun]

I’m Like Jameson. I’m a tracker.

I tracked Haggle to nowhere because of the hammer.

[Amrun]

Luke

[Amrun]

Yes, full.

[Amrun]

Is rocket surgery a thing?

Why aren't you voting?
I'm not quite convinced, but let's see where this goes.


@Amrun What do you have to say for yoself?

You kidding? You posted this at 2:46am. I was asleep.


First of all, I didn’t and still do not place any credence or importance in partners.

Second of all, this is clearly a power heavy set up regardless, and that’s a lot of set up spec for an unfinished claim and when we don’t know what scum powers are.

[Amrun]

I actually thought this was a vanilla-less game for that reason, originally.

[Amrun]

I think it’s the first in the series.

[Amrun]

And why can’t you be my theoretical partner, grey cells?

[Amrun]

Why not?

[Amrun]

That’s just like, a normal any game thing.

[Amrun]

Somethings they say make sense, and some things don't.

So riddle me this Mr anti-confusion, how can someone simultaneously be both confirmed town and confirmed scum?

How many times do I have to keep reiterating that I’ve never played a Radja setup before, before it finally sinks in?

Who cares? Why is that relevant in any fashion?

[Amrun]

Why not?

Because the potential for a townvig with remaining shots here means scum has to play a tight game and unnecessary bussing by claiming an obvious scumrole is not in any way playing a tight game? If I'm scum with you, I prompted your claim, called you out on not claiming VT/Vig and am hard townreading someone in the lynch pool. Scum me then has to potentially deal with convincing town to kill every possible mislynch over me, instead of just, you know, one.

Why, more to the point, are you trying to convince people we might be partners?

~Jingle

Why would you have had to prompt my claim?

Your logic is faulty.

[Amrun]

Why would you have had to prompt my claim?

I didn't have to. I did.

Why did you sidestep the question about why you're trying to convince me you could be my partner?

Huh?

SCUMLGC who is buddies with SCUMAMRUN doesn't let SCUMAMRUN claim something that is obviously not a town claim because I'm not a moron.

More to the point, the question here is very obviously a distraction from the issue that Amrun is scum.

~Jingle

I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m trying to show other players that just because you’re speaking like you’re sure of things doesn’t mean the things you are saying make sense.

[Amrun]

I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m trying to show other players that just because you’re speaking like you’re sure of things doesn’t mean the things you are saying make sense.

Sure, but you're NOT trying to show why Tracker makes sense in the setup. You're trying to discredit the idea that I'm not your partner.

Keep openwolfing though.

~Jingle

I agree it’s unbalanced with the current information we had; like I said, I originally assumed this was a vanillaless game based on my role PM. I can only assume that scum must have a power that makes it make sense. I’m not going to lie about my role just because I’m worried about how external balance will appear. That’s dumb.

[Amrun]

Vanillizer. Role stopper. Some crazy JOAT. There’s several things.

[Amrun]

I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m trying to show other players that just because you’re speaking like you’re sure of things doesn’t mean the things you are saying make sense.

Sure, but you're NOT trying to show why Tracker makes sense in the setup. You're trying to discredit the idea that I'm not your partner.

Keep openwolfing though.

~Jingle

I agree it’s unbalanced with the current information we had; like I said, I originally assumed this was a vanillaless game based on my role PM. I can only assume that scum must have a power that makes it make sense. I’m not going to lie about my role just because I’m worried about how external balance will appear. That’s dumb.

Why would you have assumed the game is vanillaless based solely on your role pm?

Assume isn’t the right word. The thought crossed my mind, because of the wording of the game “balance is not guaranteed.” Then when Enter flipped cop, I started seriously considering it.

Then I was proven wrong. I still assumed it was power heavy.

[Amrun]

Just warning all my games: I have a stomach virus and it’s sapping me of all energy to be productive.

[Amrun]

They exist. The argument doesn’t work.

[Amrun]

caught up

team can't be uncrowned/zenith at this point mechanically I think

more takes after dinner

Um

Uncrowned is mechanical town

[Amrun]

I’m Like Jameson. I’m a tracker.

I tracked Haggle to nowhere because of the hammer.

How did Haggle’s hammer affect anything? Why wouldn’t you say, you got no results because he flipped vt?

That is what I said.

The hammer is why I tracked them.

[Amrun]

That feels a little grandstand-y

I don't exactly know what that means but I'm pretty sure I agree

Thrice

[Amrun]

Question. Was Uncrowned publically townreaded day 1?

Not a single person scumread him IIRC.

LGC is coming off far the worse in this exchange IMO.

[Amrun]

Thanks, Gamma, for taking it home after I seriously miscalculated on claiming tracker.

Fun game, Radja.

[Amrun]

Zenith, you did fine, you just need more experience.

[Amrun]

I tried a different style here of being more quiet and just analyzing what was going on around me. I don't think it was effective. Can't help but feel I let down the squad on this one. ); sorry guys

Not at all. We targeted you N1 for being widely townread.

[Amrun]

I should have claimed some type of gated tracker, or just VT. It was an error on my part.

[Amrun]

I do think scum roles could have balanced it and I only claimed it at all because of the “balance not guaranteed” disclaimer I assumed there would be more crazy roles than there were, but clearly, it was a vital mistake. Haha. Oh well. I just tried to not fuck it up for gamma at that point.

[Amrun]

^ Overall agree.

Had my scum partner been someone in jeopardy, I would have fought back tooth and nail. I sat down and looked at my associatives and realized if I cleared a mislynch trying to save myself, we’d be screwed.

[Amrun]

And in that game where you intentionally hammered scum, it was really anti town and made the game a lot harder to win because the game day was so short and we didn’t get a chance to get good associatives.

I’d hoped that have taught you a lesson on it. I guess not.

Early hammering, even of scum, doesn’t usually help town, only hurts it.

[Amrun]

Are you serious?

Everyone in the game, including your replacement, lamented all game about the lack of information we got day 1 due to your hammer. It made the game very, very difficult to win. Hammering scum doesn’t make someone town. It doesn’t make them scum, but it doesn’t make them town either.

I also find the fact that you didn’t apologize for your atrocious behavior (outside of that) post game pretty appalling.

[Amrun]

Did you notice that this game, Haggle was shot for doing the same thing you did, which led to a quick lynch of a COP?

It’s antitown behavior, no matter the alignment of the flip. Period.

[Amrun]

I really wanted to hold my tongue which is why I didn’t say anything in that game. Ugh.

But please don’t paint me as if I was policy lynching you for your shitty hammer.

I just found you scummy for your actions in context. There is no need to get defensive for someone scumreading you for something You didn’t think would come off as scummy. That’s just part of the game.

[Amrun]

I don’t care if you are happy with your hammer; it is fine that we disagree. I strongly disagree with you on mafia theory on this matter - so what?

However, I felt that you were shading me in that post I originally responded to, and you clearly were.

Calling someone(me) “surface level” and saying I’m stuck in “0 level thinking” is unspeakably rude. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt for RL interference from that game, but no, clearly, you are just an antagonistic person that doesn’t know how not to be rude.

[Amrun]

I don’t care if you change your mind, and I am NOT bullying you. In fact, the only person who could be bullying here is you, because every single post has a backhanded insult to me in it. I don’t care what you think about the hammer in that game.

I got annoyed at your implied rudeness and allowed it to bait me into saying something, which I regret. I do apologize for bringing it up at all.

However, I invite you to re-read your posts here in the last few minutes and see why they might come off as rude. I don’t even think you’re trying to be rude. You just are. If you’re NOT trying to antagonize people, some self reflection is in order. If you are, then, carry on and reap the consequences of conflict following you around.

[Amrun]

Radja, sorry for bringing this shit here.

[Amrun]

I’m not forcing anything on you. I also have not put you down for disagreeing with me. You are, in fact, the only person who has done that,

quite explicitly

, blatantly stating that I am guilty of “0 level thinking” for simply disagreeing with you. I ha e done no such thing, and don’t intend to.

You have spoken to me about this matter exclusively in poor faith, responded solely with insults. And I’m the one putting you down?

I’m not even sure what other post you are referring to, so if I offended you by some other thing elsewhere, I do apologize because it most certainly was not intentional.

[Amrun]

I didn’t insult you. The only thing I did wrong (in this particular exchange) is respond to you in the first place, which I did apologize for, because I should have let sleeping dogs lie. That was my bad.

I never said you were a bad player, or a bad person, or heavily implied that you’re stupid. The former and latter of these things is what upset me on your end, here. Why you don’t think saying things like that is rude I don’t know.

I disagree with a specific play you made in a game, and once again, that’s ok, we can disagree. But I never said anything like “oh and btw only shitty players think X thing!” knowing that you will read and that we disagree over X thing. I have NEVER said anything beyond that I think the hammer you made was antitown, as are ALL or most quickhammers IMO, and that the player’s alignment doesn’t matter. This comes down to a theory disagreement, not a value judgment on you as a player/person.

If it ever came across otherwise, I apologize. However, I stand strongly by that I never insulted you and you objectively insulted me SEVERAL different times.

P-edit: Yes, I already apologized for that one post now 2 different times. That one there was a bit rude in the way it was phrased, but not nearly as much as directly calling you a bad player, which I have never done or intended to do in any capacity.

[Amrun]

I’m sorry for shitting all over post game here, everyone.

Nancy, I don’t want to cut you off, but I suggest we continue by PM if you feel the need.

I have said all I need to say, fmpov, though.

[Amrun]

On my end yes.

[Amrun]

Glad we could resolve that. I feel better now.

[Amrun]

Sorry Gamma!