Micro 904: Radja's Story Episode 1 - GAME OVER

[Nancy Drew 39]

ego

[Nancy Drew 39]

Explain Zenith?

Gut feeling.

Can't quite put my finger on it, and the hydra thing may be interfering with my read somewhat. Don't recommend anyone blindly trust my gut. Better to come to your own opinions without my influence.

If anyone has ideas on who is scum, I'm all ears.

I think I do.

VOTE: Zenith

Mech says, two of the unconfirmed are scum. We know we’re town and we hardtown read Gamma, not exactly a difficult decision. We were leaning Amrun but hey thanks for making our decision easier.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Explain Zenith?

Gut feeling.

Can't quite put my finger on it, and the hydra thing may be interfering with my read somewhat. Don't recommend anyone blindly trust my gut. Better to come to your own opinions without my influence.

If anyone has ideas on who is scum, I'm all ears.

I think I do.

VOTE: Zenith

Mech says, two of the unconfirmed are scum. We know we’re town and we hardtown read Gamma, not exactly a difficult decision. We were leaning Amrun but hey thanks for making our decision easier.

Great apology gambit, so when we hypothetically flip, you get to be free of all responsibility for wrongly voting us. Amirite?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well GG everyone. I'm pretty confident that LGC is scum, and Gamma seems like the most likely partner.

Town LGC might want to take some time to think about associatives. Scum LGC might not think about much further than getting someone lynched because of MYLO. Someone is clearly trying to win the game here today, and unless town can get a correct vig then only one faction has achievable win condition today.

@Radja
What would happen if town vig targets scum, while scum targets the vig for NK? Assuming no other player gets involved, like roleblocker, bodyguard, etc, would both players die?

I'd be surprised if scum doesn't have a roleblocker or some way to deal with vig, but if not, maybe we still have a chance even if LGC manages to pull off a mislynch?

[Nancy Drew 39]

In Friday, I will post the claim order, if you fail to do the claiming by then.

@Chemist do you have another shot?

I think it’s better to keep that hidden for now

@Gamma

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why would Gamma kill Chemist? He made it abundantly clear, he planned to shoot you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why would Gamma kill Chemist? He made it abundantly clear, he planned to shoot you.

if Amrun flipped scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Gg everyone. Thanks for the supercool setup Radja. Please add me to the prein list for your next one.

@Jingle, was really fun hydraing with you. I hope we get to do that again.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The case against Amrun wasn't trash. I think after you've played on the site for a little while longer you'll realize why the claim being made when it was was pretty bad. "Bastard" doesn't mean the game is unbalanced.

+1

Amrun’s claim, after flipped cop, bg and confirmed vig, meant that either she logically had to be scum or that the game was seriously broken, which I kept trying to tell Zenith.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Never claimed that bastard roles means the game is unbalanced. Never even claimed the game is unbalanced.

The game description says: "Balance is not guaranteed."
So I presumed, "Balance is not guaranteed." To mean that balance isn't guaranteed. As in may or may not be balanced.

Balance not being guaranteed /= scum having literally no chance at winning.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I should have claimed some type of gated tracker, or just VT. It was an error on my part.

Yeah, you totally fucked yourself with that.
I guess, I should have considered bussing as a possibility specifically because of that.

Chemist dying over confitown Uncrowned, also threw me but he was obviously killed to frame Zenith, so brilliant move there, Gamma.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The case against Amrun wasn't trash. I think after you've played on the site for a little while longer you'll realize why the claim being made when it was was pretty bad. "Bastard" doesn't mean the game is unbalanced.

+1

Amrun’s claim, after flipped cop, bg and confirmed vig, meant that either she logically had to be scum or that the game was seriously broken, which I kept trying to tell Zenith.

So you are claiming it is impossible to balance in town tracker? even with potential bastard roles, no possible scum roles could have made for a balanced setup?

Who was left? I knew we were vt and that meant that even if Gamma were scum pr, the game had to be seriously broken.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Zenith, explaining setup spec really isn’t my strong suit but Amrun clearly gets it. Why isn’t she calling the case on her “trash”?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think you should probably try to educate yourself better re:balance in setups or you will continue to make this error in judgement in future games. Beyond that, I really don’t know what to tell you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't know the list of all possible roles. But just making up roles in my head I don't see how it would be impossible to get a roughly balanced setup somehow. But again and again i say i'm not strong at setup spec because I lack the experience, and knowledge of all possible roles, etc.

I'd like to understand, but I currently don't.

Is the claim that there is no possible way to balance town track and the rest of town roles vs any 2 mystery scum roles with potential bastard roles?

You should pm Jingle. He can explain it a lot better than I can.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Rarely can you point to two specific points in the game and say "if, at these two points, something had gone differently, the game would have gone differently."

Both town lynches are arguably largely your fault. If you had posted L-1 when you voted me, and if you hadn't opposed the Amrun push when you admit to not knowing what was happening, I doubt either of us would have gotten lynched.

Could you also include Haggle vig in that as well?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I do think scum roles could have balanced it and I only claimed it at all because of the “balance not guaranteed” disclaimer I assumed there would be more crazy roles than there were, but clearly, it was a vital mistake. Haha. Oh well. I just tried to not fuck it up for gamma at that point.

This is the game that ruined my perfect BoP on him, RJ doesn’t count because he was jester, not scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I should have claimed some type of gated tracker, or just VT. It was an error on my part.

Yeah, you totally fucked yourself with that.
I guess, I should have considered bussing as a possibility specifically because of that.

Chemist dying over confitown Uncrowned, also threw me but he was obviously killed to frame Zenith, so brilliant move there, Gamma.

I p much decided whether to kill Chemist on what I thought he could do to harm my ability to win if left him alive a full vigilante versus being flipped as full vigilante
I felt like in the former scenario he and Zenith could have gotten into an interaction that would have made Zenith obvtown

Had Uncrowned died, I might have possibly reconsidered my Zenith read because it really made no sense for him to have killed Uncrowned over Chemist. Chemist wasn’t targeting you and you had to know that game was ending either that night or the following day, so if your goal was not exactly to frame Zenith, then that seems counterintuitive, as Chemist was no longer a threat to you and was possible mislynchbait.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I should have claimed some type of gated tracker, or just VT. It was an error on my part.

Yeah, you totally fucked yourself with that.
I guess, I should have considered bussing as a possibility specifically because of that.

Chemist dying over confitown Uncrowned, also threw me but he was obviously killed to frame Zenith, so brilliant move there, Gamma.

I p much decided whether to kill Chemist on what I thought he could do to harm my ability to win if left him alive a full vigilante versus being flipped as full vigilante
I felt like in the former scenario he and Zenith could have gotten into an interaction that would have made Zenith obvtown

Had Uncrowned died, I might have possibly reconsidered my Zenith read because it really made no sense for EM to have killed Uncrowned over Chemist. Chemist wasn’t targeting you and you had to know that game was ending either that night or the following day, so if your goal was not exactly to frame Zenith, then that seems counterintuitive, as Chemist was no longer a threat to you and was possible mislynchbait.

Sorry.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Although to be fair, people don't really tunnel anymore. I don't think I've seen a tunnel in a while, either. Most play these days seems to be more involved in making yourself look towny than finding and lynching scum.

I think e was definitely death tunneling me in such a way that almost seemed to border on gaslighting. That’s why I was so sure e had to be scum, based specifically on the way e went about it. Twilight didn’t really help too much either. The next day e did a lot better minus the whole “the case on Amrun was trash” thing, excepted.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Although to be fair, people don't really tunnel anymore. I don't think I've seen a tunnel in a while, either. Most play these days seems to be more involved in making yourself look towny than finding and lynching scum.

I think e was definitely death tunneling me in such a way that almost seemed to border on gaslighting. That’s why I was so sure e had to be scum, based specifically on the way e went about it. Twilight didn’t really help too much either. The next day e did a lot better minus the whole “the case on Amrun was trash” thing, excepted.

That's possible.
Reading him and trying to make sense of his posts after I was dead was bad enough that I just had to stop trying to keep up with the game, so after a while I simply skimmed everything and ignored his posts.

Yeah, I learned that the hard way. Everytime I tried to engage him, people doubted their tr on me. I was so extremely confused by it, it temporarily really badly messed with my head outside of the game. I’m just really grateful that my extreme temporary confusion didn’t mess up a really terrific friendship I had, because I was seriously that messed up over that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Although to be fair, people don't really tunnel anymore. I don't think I've seen a tunnel in a while, either. Most play these days seems to be more involved in making yourself look towny than finding and lynching scum.

I think e was definitely death tunneling me in such a way that almost seemed to border on gaslighting. That’s why I was so sure e had to be scum, based specifically on the way e went about it. Twilight didn’t really help too much either. The next day e did a lot better minus the whole “the case on Amrun was trash” thing, excepted.

That's possible.
Reading him and trying to make sense of his posts after I was dead was bad enough that I just had to stop trying to keep up with the game, so after a while I simply skimmed everything and ignored his posts.

Yeah, I learned that the hard way. Everytime I tried to engage EM, people doubted their tr on me. I was so extremely confused by it, it temporarily really badly messed with my head outside of the game. I’m just really grateful that my extreme temporary confusion didn’t mess up a really terrific friendship I had, because I was seriously that messed up over that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I should have claimed some type of gated tracker, or just VT. It was an error on my part.

Yeah, you totally fucked yourself with that.
I guess, I should have considered bussing as a possibility specifically because of that.

Chemist dying over confitown Uncrowned, also threw me but he was obviously killed to frame Zenith, so brilliant move there, Gamma.

I p much decided whether to kill Chemist on what I thought he could do to harm my ability to win if left him alive a full vigilante versus being flipped as full vigilante
I felt like in the former scenario he and Zenith could have gotten into an interaction that would have made Zenith obvtown

Had Uncrowned died, I might have possibly reconsidered my Zenith read because it really made no sense for him to have killed Uncrowned over Chemist. Chemist wasn’t targeting you and you had to know that game was ending either that night or the following day, so if your goal was not exactly to frame Zenith, then that seems counterintuitive, as Chemist was no longer a threat to you and was possible mislynchbait.

THe issue was I had to block Chemist in case he had another shot, otherwise Zenith goes before I want him to and it’s down to you and me as suspects, and idk how well I would have fared in that scenario. So I had to weigh the two universes of “dead full vig Chemist” and “still living full vig Chemist” (one shot was not an issue because Zenith couldn’t have the reaction I was planning around) and the former seemed less risky just based on that evaluation

Although to be fair, people don't really tunnel anymore. I don't think I've seen a tunnel in a while, either. Most play these days seems to be more involved in making yourself look towny than finding and lynching scum.

I think e was definitely death tunneling me in such a way that almost seemed to border on gaslighting. That’s why I was so sure e had to be scum, based specifically on the way e went about it. Twilight didn’t really help too much either. The next day e did a lot better minus the whole “the case on Amrun was trash” thing, excepted.

That's possible.
Reading him and trying to make sense of his posts after I was dead was bad enough that I just had to stop trying to keep up with the game, so after a while I simply skimmed everything and ignored his posts.

Yeah, I learned that the hard way. Everytime I tried to engage him, people doubted their tr on me. I was so extremely confused by it, it temporarily really badly messed with my head outside of the game. I’m just really grateful that my extreme temporary confusion didn’t mess up a really terrific friendship I had, because I was seriously that messed up over that.

If this friendship is your friendship with Jingle I’m real glad you managed to keep that intact after a taxing hydra game, I remember in DND mafia RC and Keychain has a falling out while hydra’ed that caused Keychain to rep out

No but I don’t really want to discuss it here, the point is that I was a complete mess because of it and it affected my behaviour in very disturbing ways, because I was literally doubting my own mind, just like in the actual move.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Rarely can you point to two specific points in the game and say "if, at these two points, something had gone differently, the game would have gone differently."

Both town lynches are arguably largely your fault. If you had posted L-1 when you voted me, and if you hadn't opposed the Amrun push when you admit to not knowing what was happening, I doubt either of us would have gotten lynched.

Could you also include Haggle vig in that as well?

You dont think we should have been vigged? You don't think we'd have been a distraction all game?

It’s more the fact that Chemist used his ONLY vigshot on you but why did you guys hammer like that? Why not wait for Enter to claim?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Rarely can you point to two specific points in the game and say "if, at these two points, something had gone differently, the game would have gone differently."

Both town lynches are arguably largely your fault. If you had posted L-1 when you voted me, and if you hadn't opposed the Amrun push when you admit to not knowing what was happening, I doubt either of us would have gotten lynched.

Could you also include Haggle vig in that as well?

You dont think we should have been vigged? You don't think we'd have been a distraction all game?

I think my point may have been understood btw. I was only including in addition to the Enter/Zenith mislynches, because it happened as a direct result of it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

^ Overall agree.

Had my scum partner been someone in jeopardy, I would have fought back tooth and nail. I sat down and looked at my associatives and realized if I cleared a mislynch trying to save myself, we’d be screwed.

I respectfully disagree with my hydra partner. Yes, we both though Gamma looked super obvtown here but the specific way in which Zenith death tunnelled my slot, I have only experienced from scum, so imo. it was a combination of Gamma acting super obvtown and Zenith being over the top scummy - particularly in the way e went about death tunneling me plus Gamma NKing Chemist over Uncrowned. I think an Uncrowned NK would have absolutely forced me to re-evaluate my Zenith/Gamma reads. Ironically had Uncrowned not wrongly pegged our slot, as the other possibility for scum and sheeped Zenith on Gamma, that might possibly have lead to a no lynch and since Zenith was looking arguably more townie on D2, maybe it could have possibly made a difference? Well, we’ll obviously never know, since it didn’t happen.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just for the record, I wanted to lynch Gamma at the end there. Which, if town had gone along with me on that, would have resulted in town win. JS
=p

True. I wasn’t really clear why you switched to Gamma over us who you were death tunneling the day before.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would also like to pre-in for the next one. Not sure yet if I’ll play solo or in a hydra.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I read. I guess, it’s always a good idea to check the votes before voting. In the case of either an intentional hammer or not actually gaf if it were, hammering is always a gambit. If you hammer correctly, then you help out the game by lynching scum and only surface level players will autolock you as scum but if otoh, you wrongly hammer town, you had better be able to explain it convincingly because town hammerers, usually get vigged/jnstalynced.

I recently intentionally (or didn’t gaf) hammered scum as town.
Accidentally hammered town as scum.
Accidentally hammered scum as town.
Accidentally hammered town as cop confirmed IC, so I just got yelled at, instead of killed.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And in that game where you intentionally hammered scum, it was really anti town and made the game a lot harder to win because the game day was so short and we didn’t get a chance to get good associatives.

I’d hoped that have taught you a lesson on it. I guess not.

Early hammering, even of scum, doesn’t usually help town, only hurts it.

100% disagree. I knew with 99.99999% certainty I was right, so it would have been the epitome of stupidity, to have not voted when I did and given the near certainty of my correct read, I would do that again and again and again.

I think YOU’RE the one who needs to learn a lesson here not me. Open up your mind, it will make you a much better player and you won’t mislynch for ridiculous reasons and yes, it’s beyond hella stupid to ever lynch a scum hammer without other valid reasons to do so and if you seriously can’t understand that, than I honestly don’t know what to tell you. *smdh*

[Nancy Drew 39]

Are you serious?

Everyone in the game, including your replacement, lamented all game about the lack of information we got day 1 due to your hammer. It made the game very, very difficult to win. Hammering scum doesn’t make someone town. It doesn’t make them scum, but it doesn’t make them town either.

I also find the fact that you didn’t apologize for your atrocious behavior (outside of that) post game pretty appalling.

I find it beyond incomprehensible that anyone can seriously be as illogical as you are coming across in this post. Fix your own play before you imagine yourself to be some top tier mafia player, which if this post is any indication, you clearly aren’t. However, you do make a valid point for owning up to things you actually did wrong and I will make an apology but only for what I actually did wrong and never ever for what I 100% did right, It’s not my problem you are stuck in 0 level thinking and I refuse to make it my problem.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Did you notice that this game, Haggle was shot for doing the same thing you did, which led to a quick lynch of a COP?

It’s antitown behavior, no matter the alignment of the flip. Period.

Haggle hammered TOWN. Are you serious or just trolling me at this point?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really wanted to hold my tongue which is why I didn’t say anything in that game. Ugh.

But please don’t paint me as if I was policy lynching you for your shitty hammer.

I just found you scummy for your actions in context. There is no need to get defensive for someone scumreading you for something You didn’t think would come off as scummy. That’s just part of the game.

It’s not “shitty” if you hammer scum. I’m seriously losing brain cells at this point, trying to get through to you. You’re the only one who’s getting defensive because you refuse to see that I made the right call and for God only knows what reasons, think you can get me to bully me into changing my mind on something it makes 0 sense to do so.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t care if you are happy with your hammer; it is fine that we disagree. I strongly disagree with you on mafia theory on this matter - so what?

However, I felt that you were shading me in that post I originally responded to, and you clearly were.

Calling someone(me) “surface level” and saying I’m stuck in “0 level thinking” is unspeakably rude. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt for RL interference from that game, but no, clearly, you are just an antagonistic person that doesn’t know how not to be rude.

I stand by that and it’s only shade if false. If you are unwilling to see how hammering scum when I was 99.9999% confident is in your words, “antitown”, then yes - that is EXACTLY what I’d consider to be “surface level thinking”.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t care if you change your mind, and I am NOT bullying you. In fact, the only person who could be bullying here is you, because every single post has a backhanded insult to me in it. I don’t care what you think about the hammer in that game.

I got annoyed at your implied rudeness and allowed it to bait me into saying something, which I regret. I do apologize for bringing it up at all.

However, I invite you to re-read your posts here in the last few minutes and see why they might come off as rude. I don’t even think you’re trying to be rude. You just are. If you’re NOT trying to antagonize people, some self reflection is in order. If you are, then, carry on and reap the consequences of conflict following you around.

You are insistent on forcing - what is in my mind - an incorrect opinion - and are putting me down for daring to disagree with you, so in what world do you seriously consider that to be rude? Serious question.

Spoiler:

I also didn’t really care for your post misrepping me in that other thread. It came across tbh, unwarranted and a bit mean spirited, so that might account for my harsher phrasing than necessary. So, if I was overly harsh I apologize. Will you? I’m not holding my breath.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m not forcing anything on you. I also have not put you down for disagreeing with me. You are, in fact, the only person who has done that,

quite explicitly

, blatantly stating that I am guilty of “0 level thinking” for simply disagreeing with you. I ha e done no such thing, and don’t intend to.

You have spoken to me about this matter exclusively in poor faith, responded solely with insults. And I’m the one putting you down?

I’m not even sure what other post you are referring to, so if I offended you by some other thing elsewhere, I do apologize because it most certainly was not intentional.

But you’re inexplicably assuming the converse for me, why?

This is why these conversations are so extremely frustrating for me, because you have a very clear blindspot how you are coming across to others. At least I am gradually becoming more and more aware of my lapses in judgment.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’d hoped that have taught you a lesson on it. I guess not. ~ Amrun

Do you seriously not see this as even remotely arrogant and rude?

You have a double standard and you clearly don’t even realize it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I publicly apologize to Amrun for being a jerk to you here. Thank you so much for being such a good sport about it. I now realize the correct way to deal with such situations. Sorry Radja and sorry other players.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I didn’t insult you. The only thing I did wrong (in this particular exchange) is respond to you in the first place, which I did apologize for, because I should have let sleeping dogs lie. That was my bad.

I never said you were a bad player, or a bad person, or heavily implied that you’re stupid. The former and latter of these things is what upset me on your end, here. Why you don’t think saying things like that is rude I don’t know.

I disagree with a specific play you made in a game, and once again, that’s ok, we can disagree. But I never said anything like “oh and btw only shitty players think X thing!” knowing that you will read and that we disagree over X thing. I have NEVER said anything beyond that I think the hammer you made was antitown, as are ALL or most quickhammers IMO, and that the player’s alignment doesn’t matter. This comes down to a theory disagreement, not a value judgment on you as a player/person.

If it ever came across otherwise, I apologize. However, I stand strongly by that I never insulted you and you objectively insulted me SEVERAL different times.

P-edit: Yes, I already apologized for that one post now 2 different times. That one there was a bit rude in the way it was phrased, but not nearly as much as directly calling you a bad player, which I have never done or intended to do in any capacity.

I do believe it was unintentional but I did interpreted as implied.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m sorry for shitting all over post game here, everyone.

Nancy, I don’t want to cut you off, but I suggest we continue by PM if you feel the need.

I have said all I need to say, fmpov, though.

I think hopefully we’re good here, now? I certainly hope so.

[Nancy Drew 39]

On my end yes.

Glad we could resolve that. I feel better now.

Me too. Perhaps we can maybe set a good example here for all contentious warring players:

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really wanted to hold my tongue which is why I didn’t say anything in that game. Ugh.

But please don’t paint me as if I was policy lynching you for your shitty hammer.

I just found you scummy for your actions in context. There is no need to get defensive for someone scumreading you for something You didn’t think would come off as scummy. That’s just part of the game.

It’s not “shitty” if you hammer scum. I’m seriously losing brain cells at this point, trying to get through to you. You’re the only one who’s getting defensive because you refuse to see that I made the right call and for God only knows what reasons, think you can get me to bully me into changing my mind on something it makes 0 sense to do so.

This is also why I got pissed you decided to call the L-1 scummy, especially with your given logic, because it would have made way more sense on town but shos flipped scum so you were trying to accuse me of setting up a hammer on my fucking scum buddy, which is moronic.

Spoiler:

I was suspicious about you first saying Robb was “irritated” then doing a 180 to Shos, which read as contradictory to me but I agreed with Robb that it made way more sense to lynch offwagon. I don’t recall ever saying that? My vote wasn’t even on you att I replaced out.

In spoiler tags because it isn’t relevant to anything happening in this particular game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Now I’m a little upset tbh

Sorry.

More reason, I should have taken this to pm. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

current Pre-ins:
Gamma Emerald
Zenith
Nancy Drew 39
Uncrowned



Let me know if I missed anyone.

Please change Nancy Drew 39 to Deathtunelling WOATS. Thanks, secret hydra partner.