Micro 907- Recruitment

[Fdse]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

I have not been wrong the previous times I have read you. I am curious if that extends to this game.

[Fdse]

not related to the game at all but hypothetically speaking if i was a cult leader who do you guys think would be a great recruit here on night 1?

hypothetically speaking

Me

Incorrect; it would be me. The reason why is when you crunch the statistical probability of winning, if you do not recruit me, the chances of Cult winning drop significantly^{citation needed}. If you are looking for an exact number, it is theorized to be around 100%^{citation needed}. Whereas, if Cult does recruit me, the odds of Cult winning increase by nearly tenfold^{citation needed}, to approximately 1,000%^{citation needed}. I do not see you providing such a significant chance of winning to the Cult, Robbnva.

[Fdse]

classic FDSE - already a townread

VOTE: FDSE

The past two games I played with Doctor Drew under my main, I correctly identified he was scum. Might I add as well, both times he was cult.

[Fdse]

I will not confirm nor deny any guesses at my main—I would rather allude to it for now, and reveal at a later date.

[Fdse]

And we will see sooner or later Drew.

[Fdse]

Cult game without Korina in it? I don't think so.

Please read the following quote:

I will not confirm nor deny any guesses at my main—I would rather allude to it for now, and reveal at a later date.

Additionally, do not let the fact I am an alt detract from your ability to play the game. You should be able to read me just fine without having to know who my main is; however, should I feel that it is giving Cult an unfair advantage—most likely due to them knowing who I am—I will happily switch accounts.

[Fdse]

I could see why Eve would be town this game; however, there's nothing screaming town yet. I will also reply to anything that I feel I should in a moment.

[Fdse]

I skimmed over most of the posts, and couldn't really pick out anything I wanted to comment on. Most likely due to the fact I am tired and want to go back to bed. Rob v Eve/Norweeg feels like there is a scum somewhere, and I would not be surprised to see Rob flipping Cult. I doubt that Eve and Norweeg both would.

Yes I thought it was serious. I already said I can’t tell tone strictly by reading.

... Post 20 is literally me shitposting. It is an in-character shitpost, yes, but it is still a shitpost. When I wrote the post, I felt as if it was quite obvious that I was being sarcastic. I personally do not believe that you cannot see/realize that the post is not sincere, especially considering I included several "citation needed" and figures that make zero sense, (Cult having a 0% chance of winning if they do not recruit me, versus a 1000% chance of winning if they do.)

[Fdse]

I will return tomorrow; I had friends from my hometown visit, and a storm is passing through.

[Fdse]

Moderator: V/LA for 48 hours. I have a really bad cold, and I can barely think.

I will try to reply in a few hours regardless of my cold.

[Fdse]

May someone please point to me what I should reply to? I really cannot think straight enough to sit down and read sixteen pages atm.

[Fdse]

I have re-read the game, and I have a wall of posts I will reply to in a few; however, if you want my current readlist:
Eve, Norweeg are all Town.
I am currently TRing Dong, and that worries me because I cannot read them.
Drew and Kerset I am currently unsure on.
Rob, Map and Jorges are currently scum.

[Fdse]

Spoiler:

... Post 20 is literally me shitposting. It is an in-character shitpost, yes, but it is still a shitpost. When I wrote the post, I felt as if it was quite obvious that I was being sarcastic. I personally do not believe that you cannot see/realize that the post is not sincere, especially considering I included several "citation needed" and figures that make zero sense, (Cult having a 0% chance of winning if they do not recruit me, versus a 1000% chance of winning if they do.)

that's exactly my point but upon lengthy reflection and meditation it seems like a really stupid thing for scum to lie about - so i think Nova is being genuine regardless of his alignment

to everyone else: is there anyone else FDSE could be or should i treat him as Korina for meta? since i noticed 4 of you from here played in the last cult game

If you wish to treat me as Korina, I advise against it. Regardless of how you try to read my play, if you read it as Korina playing, you'll find that it is scummy regardless. Even if I am Korina, I am purposefully playing differently than how he would in this type of game.

Also eve is my strongest townread here - could be a personality thing but to me sticking out the robb discussion even when hes trying to shut it down so many times means shes not doing this for towncred.

Im masons with eve

And why is claiming this relevant?

Yes I saw that. My point stands. You can’t punish people for being wrong. Every mislynch has people who were wrong.

but that's what you're doing by deathtunneling everyone who "comes at you"

So here’s a little back story. Almost every single game I play some player makes up lies about me and calls me scum. Lying is inexcusable if you’re town. I legit scum read people who lie, regardless who they are lying to. It just so happens most games it’s about me. You made two false accusations against me. They were baseless and you didn’t attempt to question me first. That is legitimately scummy. Plus you’re wifoming about being cult and that’s also scummy. I’m not going to be naive and town read you for it. As town you shouldn’t joke about being cult.

So I’m sorry if everyone disagrees with me but I can’t find town motivation in any of your actions, not even the vote hopping. So if people want to lynch me cause they disagree with me scum reading you that’s ok with me but I can’t in good faith unvote you because I’m 99.99% sure you ate scum and unvoting you is playing against my win condition.

Mayhaps people call you scum because your play is scummy? If that is the case, they are not the ones lying. Instead, they are finding you scummy, and calling you out for it. If you are town, that means you should be trying harder. In this case, I currently find your play scummy, and I think you are scum. If you flip town, I am not the liar for calling you scum; I merely thought that you were scum.

So many people lying about me. All can’t be scum. Why do townies lie? STOP LYING IF YOU ARE TOWN.

Instead of trying to figure out why you are being scumread, (the "lie" townies are telling), you simply wish to shut them down? How is this remotely townie?

FDSE hasn't actually said s lot outside of him being an alt and some light reads on Nova, Norwee, and i that he didn't really expand on - come back with some solid reads FDSE you're my favourite plague doctor and don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise

I would say I love you too Eve; however, I regret to inform you that I am gay. That isn't relevant to the game at all.

to everyone else: is there anyone else FDSE could be or should i treat him as Korina for meta? since i noticed 4 of you from here played in the last cult game

Treating it as a Korina slot inherently demands an assumption that he might cultside even as town.

Is trying to be pro-cult as town, legal?

hello Kerset - i have a question for you but please feel free to ignore it if you don't think it's worthy of your time - please forgive me

are you two saying Korina would play the game as a cultist even as town? what reason would he have to do that? because of the off chance he gets recruited to cult?

I can assure you that is exactly what Korina would do. I would post his PT from the last Cult game he played in, but that was already shared.

How do you play as cult?

How do you play as scum?

Ok so drew and joges are top wagons. Why?

Drew because policy lynch.
Joges cus he hasn't really said much of value yet, and that makes his slot hard to read.

Drew should not be a policy lynch. I can read them on the later days; if they are scum, I will find out, and they shall be lynched. Lynching them Day 1 is not very effective.

VOTE: Map Wolf
In fact i remember pretty distinctly how i claimed "lurking player" was a policy lynch and then we voted him and he turned out to be a cultist.

Please don't vote me, I don't want the pressure /s

Why post this? Instead of saying something productive, why say this?

For real though, townpoints for the courage.

Again, another equally useless post. Please post something productive.

What if cultists are FDSE and Joges lurk squad?

Impossible. If I was Cult, I would be trying to play more actively, regardless of anything going on. Cult is my favorite faction to play as.

If fdse is a cult fan/veteran then i don't get how could he be inactive. He should give doctor's appointment.

Will a doctor's note suffice?

has somebody gone and figured out who fdse is yet? he says he played with drew twice in cult games. Should be easy to figure out

Please stop trying to uncover my main. I have stated that if I feel Cult knows who I am, and that is giving them an unfair advantage, I will out myself; however, that point has not come yet unless Eve and Norweeg are both Cult.

He’s probably not the leader but he’s probably scum.

If he was regular scum, who do you think leader would be?

Eve

Why?

[Fdse]

Please explain why you are so desperately attempting to find my main. And if you must know why I have been so inactive, it is a combination of low motivation, plus a cold, and a pseudo-depressive episode, along with nothing particularly interesting happening.

[Fdse]

Rob, it is a cold. It will not kill me. I will feel horrible for a few days, but after that I will be fine. It is not worth replacing out over a simple headcold.

[Fdse]

Considering how long the night was, I feel that cult may have reasonably determined who my main is. Since I believe that is the case, I believe it is necessary for me to say it to the town as a whole.

My main is Korina.

I have also asked the moderator if I may replace into my main account, but I have been told no for reasons that shall not be disclosed until post-game.

[Fdse]

Blatant, do you have anything else you would like to contribute, or no? Additionally, I would like to lynch Rob today, since I do believe they have the highest chance of flipping scum.

[Fdse]

You have had nearly twenty-four hours to read twenty pages. What page are you currently on?

[Fdse]

A debatable statement, but that is neither for here nor there.

[Fdse]

First off, Rob's entire play thus far has been something else entirely. I'm not sure if it's indicative of him being town or scum; however, that's not the main reason. The main reason is because he's been so gung-ho about trying to figure out my main. If you're town, yes, you do have some incentive to do so, but it ultimately will not affect your strategy very much; however, if you're cult, you would want to know who I truly am because that would most likely change how you would approach the game to begin with.

Pedit:

Spoiler: @joges

Please look at the attached image and then tell me why you think you should care?

[Fdse]

You have had nearly twenty-four hours to read twenty pages. What page are you currently on?

6 + that took a brief look on the thing with desperado.

What have you spent the rest of that twenty-four hour period doing, because you should have reasonably read more than that by now.

[Fdse]

Ok, that's fair.

[Fdse]

That will not happen Rob. I think you are scum, and you have done really nothing to change my mind otherwise.

[Fdse]

@Blatant, what is your current reasoning on that? Do explain.
@Rob, if you did, I've completely forgotten about that. This entire break I've been wanting to do nothing, and coupled with the fact we had an extremely long night, I really don't care that much about the game at this very moment. And before you say I should replace out and let someone more willing take the slot, that will not happen. I joined this game with the sole intent of rolling cult/getting culted—unfortunately neither have happened yet—and I intend to see this game through to the very end.

[Fdse]

I intend to see this game through to the very end.

Try again.

[Fdse]

Was that hammer?

[Fdse]

Alright, breaking character for this entire post: WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. THE LITERAL FUCKING TIME I ROLL CULT FROM THE START, MY PARTNER LITERALLY GETS VIG'D D1 BY RANDOM BULLSHIT. The mechanics I was told of are fucking bullshit for cult, and I have no idea how they're balanced. Town has a masonry of two people. We can kill the masons, otherwise if we shoot not-mason, they're unrecruitable. We have to target someone twice in order to recruit them, and upon a successful recruit, we have to start from scratch on all recruitment attempts. Masons are unrecruitable, and if we try to recruit them, that gets outed to the town, and cult learns the masons. Masons know we know all of that.

Town has a desperado, and two masons. Cult has only cultists, and all of that information. I fail to see how cult has a decently fair shot at winning, especially with the fact town has a mechanical IC if desperado shoots d1, like they did here.

[Fdse]

I'm actually fucking pissed rn

[Fdse]

I mean, I guess if desperado shoots later into the game, that's somewhat fair for cult, but like, d1 shot, killing cultist isn't fair for me because I have to survive two mislynches in order to actually recruit.

[Fdse]

If it was literally just unrecruitable masons, and cult may kill masons, otherwise they become unrecruitable, that's decently fair to cult, I think? Maybe throw in a cap to living cultists, and yea, that's a fair setup that both sides would have a fair chance to win, I feel.

[Fdse]

Norweeg, tell me how having a desperado and two masons who know that I have to target someone twice to recruit them is fair. Desperado is likely to shoot D1, and you have mechanical IC from that. Obviously cult recruits them, but that only takes effect on D3. Especially if my partner dies d1.

[Fdse]

NK15 also said in the signup post that you can "expect to have a reasonable chance to win the game" yet I don't see how what I know the setup to be is reasonable towards cult unless somehow me and my partner deepwolf the whole game.

[Fdse]

Because the desperado clearly shoots the scummiest player and becomes a mechanical IC.

[Fdse]

I saw the cult pm and got excited as hell for it. Seeing the cult pt information, I wasn't excited anymore. Forcing two recruitment attempts nerfs cult horribly. It's much more fair towards cult to restrict how many living cultists there can be IMO.

[Fdse]

It doesn't matter. I'm pissed off rn, and I'm getting off. I'll be back when my mood is not pissed.

[Fdse]

I mean, literally anyone

but

me/map had to die today. Didn't matter who. Decided Rob because long break meant that if anyone really wanted to figure out my main, (Rob), they'd be able to, therefore forcing me to out I'm Korina to prevent any unfair advantages.

[Fdse]

Rob. There is no recruiter. The recruitment is a factional ability in this game. It's like the mafia factional kill. Any member of the mafia can preform the kill.
Any cultist in this game could preform the recruitment. We just have to target someone to recruit them twice to actually recruit them. Meaning, if I bus my partner D1, I have to survive to D3 in order to actually recruit them, and I have to hope to god they're not a mason.

[Fdse]

If they're a mason, guess what? I have to survive till D7 now to actually recruit, because I'm obviously going to shoot both masons.

[Fdse]

If it was normal recruitment mechanics, yea, that'd be different and I probably wouldn't have pushed you. But seeing as I had to ensure that neither Map nor I was the lynch today, I had to try to forcibly lynch someone, and I chose you.

Pedit: Jingle's setup?

[Fdse]

If they're a mason, guess what? I have to survive till D7 now to actually recruit, because I'm obviously going to shoot both masons.

Actually:
D1: 7v1
D2: 6v1
D3: 5v1
D4: 3v1 (Mason is NK'd)
D5 is MyLo, and I have to survive that day.

Meaning, I'd have to survive at least four consecutive days, with town having at least two or three ICs.

[Fdse]

If they're a mason, guess what? I have to survive till D7 now to actually recruit, because I'm obviously going to shoot both masons.

Actually:
D1: 7v1
D2: 6v1
D3: 5v1
D4: 3v1 (Mason is NK'd)
D5 is gg

Meaning, I'd have to survive at least three consecutive days, with town having at least two or three ICs.

ebwop

[Fdse]

Actually, I still don't think my math is right. Hang on.

[Fdse]

I hate recruiting games. Idk why I signed up.

Technically this wasn't even really a recruitment game, since nobody got recruited until endgame.

Nobody got recruited in the first place.

[Fdse]

Here's the math, assuming no desperado shot, and cult attempts to recruit the masons:
D1: 7v1
D2: 6v1
D3: 4v1 (Mason NK'd)
D4: 2v1 (Mason NK'd)
D5: 2v1 MyLo with a desperado who hasn't shot.

[Fdse]

Since we had a desperado shot D1, that changes things a bit, but here'd be the math of that:
D1: 6v1 (Desperado kills Cultist)
D2: 5v1
D3: 3v2 (MyLo, Desperado recruited - Masons obviously out)
D4: 2v1 (MyLo - Mason NK'd)

[Fdse]

At that point, I'd still be alive because Map Wolf would be the obvious recruitment choice, and the masons would obviously state that, so I have to survive at least three days in a row regardless, during one of which, there's a confirmed IC, and three living people know that, and during the other, there's two mechanical ICs, that cannot be lynched.

[Fdse]

Also, D4 has a confirmed IC via the flipped mason, so I have to convince whoever they are that the other is clearly the last cult, and I'm somehow not.

[Fdse]

I think my math is correct on all of them, I'm not really sure at this point.

[Fdse]

No joges, I'm clearly just pretending to be a cultist, and making up all that information about the setup because I'm angry. Yes that's game. If you don't believe me, whoever the masons are can confirm what I said is true, because they were given the exact same information I provided about the cult.

[Fdse]

@WHOEVER WAS GIVEN A TOWN MASON PM: PLEASE CONFIRM THE INFORMATION BELOW. I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS, BECAUSE IT WAS LITERALLY STATED ONLY CULT AND MASONS KNOW THIS INFORMATION. THANK YOU

Town has a masonry of two people. We [the cult] can kill the masons, otherwise if we shoot not-mason, they're unrecruitable. We have to target someone twice in order to recruit them, and upon a successful recruit, we have to start from scratch on all recruitment attempts. Masons are unrecruitable, and if we try to recruit them, all prior information gets outed to the town, and cult learns the masons. Masons know we know all of that.

[Fdse]

Also, looking at it: I'm going to assume anyone who has posted since I've posted that, is not a mason, making Map Wolf and Eve the masons. If that's the case, the masons had a fucking desperado shot, and that is fucking bullshit regardless of how you put that.

[Fdse]

Also also, if that's the case, literally Map could've said they were a mason, and given that information to prove themselves. It would've gone one of two ways: 1) Everyone believes them because why would you come up with such an elaborate, (and seemingly blatant lie), to save yourself as cult? or 2) They get lynched, and that information is proven anyways.

[Fdse]

Map, answer the question. Are you a mason?

[Fdse]

I've admitted I'm scum, and we've established I've been hammered. If I'm town, I have zero reason to lie about being scum, and if I'm scum, I have zero reason to lie about being scum.

[Fdse]

Also, literally I said anyone

but

you or I had to be the lynch today.

[Fdse]

Additionally, there's no reason why I would come up with such an elaborate lie about that information unless it was the truth. Especially if I'm scum.

[Fdse]

Can you confirm this statement?

@WHOEVER WAS GIVEN A TOWN MASON PM: PLEASE CONFIRM THE INFORMATION BELOW. I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS, BECAUSE IT WAS LITERALLY STATED ONLY CULT AND MASONS KNOW THIS INFORMATION. THANK YOU

Town has a masonry of two people. We [the cult] can kill the masons, otherwise if we shoot not-mason, they're unrecruitable. We have to target someone twice in order to recruit them, and upon a successful recruit, we have to start from scratch on all recruitment attempts. Masons are unrecruitable, and if we try to recruit them, all prior information gets outed to the town, and cult learns the masons. Masons know we know all of that.

[Fdse]

Ok, masons had to be you and blatant then. I didn't realize Blatant hasn't posted after I got lynched.

[Fdse]

Also, now that I've calmed down a little bit, the setup makes more sense of:
Two Masons with 1(?) Shot Desperado
Two Cultist
5 VTs

but it's still heavily town-sided with all the cult recruitment mechanics.

[Fdse]

Also, knowing that masons had the desperado:
D1: 7v2 -> 7v1 -> 6v1
D2: 6v1 -> 5v1
D3: 5v1 -> 4v1 -> 3v1 (Mason NK'd)
D4: 3v1 (MyLo)

[Fdse]

On D3, the information would be outted, the masons out themselves because the lone cultist knows who they are, so I'd still have to swing a lynch on one of the two non-confirmed townies.

[Fdse]

Also, like, I'd be fine with this setup a bit more if the cult was actually informed the masons had a desperado shot, and could kill one of us. That would make it a bit more bearable for cult to go through the game.

[Fdse]

No offense to you NK15 when I say this, but jfc, this setup fucking sucked, and I have no idea how it's remotely balanced towards cult. Cult requiring two recruitment attempts to actually recruit doesn't work for a micro, where the average game will not last past D5, even with a cult involved, and even if they can recruit every night, with a limit on the number of living cultists. Additionally, giving the masons a desperado shot, and not informing the cultists of something major like that—I didn't know that Kerset could randomly get killed, and I was treating it as if that wasn't a possibility—heavily swings the balance towards town.

Had you done something similar but said cultists can only have at most three/four cultists, (between living and nonliving cultists), and may recruit every night, and they don't have any leader, that's fair leaving off the mason desperado. But not for requiring two recruitments to actually cult someone, along with a hidden mason desperado.

[Fdse]

Had this been done in a mini, or even a large, I couldn't really complain about the double recruitment attempt mechanic—the games go on for long enough where that wouldn't really be a problem to begin with. I'd question the logistics of doing that instead of restricting the number of living cultist, but it should reasonably work.

[Fdse]

But like I've said, for a micro, where the average game won't even last till D5, and forcing cult to try to recruit someone twice to actually cult them, instead of limiting the number of cultists, doesn't make sense.

[Fdse]

/rant

[Fdse]

I got lynched, and the game is over. We're waiting on the mod to say that's the case.

[Fdse]

I also know you're a mason by virtue of Map, and he confirmed the information that was provided in both of our PTs.

[Fdse]

The rest of the posts from my hammer until now have been me ranting pretty much. You don't really lose anything by skipping it, although you do miss out on how this setup isn't balanced towards cult at all.