Micro 918: Doggos Among Us [TOWN WIN]!

[dsjstr]

I'M WILLING TO HAMMER! DO YOU HEAR THAT? I AM WILLING TO HAMMER!!

Go ahead
VOTE: Norwegian

[dsjstr]

Also, why do you think scum would go for the strategy of town hammering scum from the get go? They could potentially win today if town hammers town.

I believe it would be due to a healthier late game, where his partners, for pulling a wagon in a scum early, would have greater credibility as the game progressed. They would rely on the fact that, judging the natural disadvantage of losing a partner early in the game, there would be no logic for them to do. Evidently,

wifom

.

I disagree, if a town member lynches a wolf today then they are confirmed to be town. That is the only time we can 100% confirm anyone in the game. That would be a huge disadvantage for the wolves late game. Thinking more about it we should never have someone at L-1 for D1 because if we are on a wolf they will just lynch themselves so we can't get that conformation.
UNVOTE:

[dsjstr]

To my understanding for D1 if a wolf hammers then they die even if they are hammering a wolf, I meant that if someone hammers D1 and they don't die they have to be town. Am I understanding the rule correctly?

[dsjstr]

Problem is we have brought attention to it so now we are all gonna be chilling until end of day where we are forced in to action.

What do you think of Hectic's idea of leashing the hammers?

What does leaching the hammers mean?

[dsjstr]

*leashing

[dsjstr]

So like I saw what Norwegian said as a joke. I don't think anyone was really going to try and hammer during RVS in lylo so I just went along with it. There are some good points that if the werewolves wanted to communicate they would do so by voting, but is that something they would know to do? Having experience in quick games (around 30 mins), someone who silent votes is a typical sign of a mafia member. In this case I am talking about Doctor Drew, so would he be trying to signal Hectic is what I'm thinking.

[dsjstr]

I know how you guys feel, have four classes on Thursday one of which is a three hour night class. Just skimming through, Aaron really only posted about mechanics and nothing that is AI. I don't know how to interpret how Hectic and Drew are

interacting. Are the votes signals? Is someone getting pocketed? Am I too tired to think logically? If there was some kind of signal and I am hoping there wasn't I can't pinpoint it. It might just be from Drew's first post. Clidd is putting in a genuine effort

to solve but I think it is weird that he didn't know how all of the roles work but he knew about the exact wording from a rule that was written incorrectly in this thread. I think that it is more likely that he knew about the wolves roles but just wanted to

be perceived as town. I'm not confident in that read because it is also likely that he just made a mistake. I do like the chill vibes from this lobby, the newbie games are not like this.

[dsjstr]

I'm probably trying too hard to find the wolves slip up, it just seems like an obvious way to catch a mafia.

[dsjstr]

I know how you guys feel, have four classes on Thursday one of which is a three hour night class. Just skimming through, Aaron really only posted about mechanics and nothing that is AI. I don't know how to interpret how Hectic and Drew are

interacting. Are the votes signals? Is someone getting pocketed? Am I too tired to think logically?

If there was some kind of signal and I am hoping there wasn't I can't pinpoint it. It might just be from Drew's first post.

Clidd is putting in a genuine effort

to solve but I think it is weird that he didn't know how all of the roles work but he knew about the exact wording from a rule that was written incorrectly in this thread. I think that it is more likely that he knew about the wolves roles but just wanted to

be perceived as town. I'm not confident in that read because it is also likely that he just made a mistake. I do like the chill vibes from this lobby, the newbie games are not like this.

Hey, Doro, did you miss this post:

So like I saw what Norwegian said as a joke. I don't think anyone was really going to try and hammer during RVS in lylo so I just went along with it. There are some good points that if the werewolves wanted to communicate they would do so by voting, but is that something they would know to do? Having experience in quick games (around 30 mins), someone who silent votes is a typical sign of a mafia member.

In this case I am talking about Doctor Drew, so would he be trying to signal Hectic is what I'm thinking.

I think this kind of misunderstanding might be town-indicative. Traitors don't know each other, and the main wolf and the traitors already know each other. So there's nothing for them to indicate to each other by doing that.

What exactly do you mean by signalling to each other? How does a traitor signal to another traitor that they are not aware of, as that is what you're implying when you said Drew may be signalling to me.

I was thinking the werewolf has all the knowledge and the traitors have enough to be able to figure out who the other traitor is. I talked about the signal being between you and Drew the first time because I see RVS as the time to get away with signalling by voting. I could really look at any interaction and claim it is signalling but I like coming up with theories like that.

[dsjstr]

Well the werewolf could let the traitors know who who they are. Thank you for not considering me a newbie clidd, I am trying even if the results don't show it . I guess I really don't have an explanation for what I said earlier, I do think I am wrong now, on the off chance I was right Drew could be the werewolf and was going to place a vote on both traitors but we intervened so he couldn't go through with the plan. That's just how I would play it off, but I doubt that was actually the plan.

[dsjstr]

I agree with norwegian's 172, but I am worried about how convincing clidd is. When he shared his thoughts on the setup I saw that as NAI, any role could do that. The fact that I was already sussing Drew and then people started joining makes me

hesitant to join the wagon. If we did want to lynch Drew than I would want clidd to be the one to hammer. Right now I would have placed my vote on clidd if he wasn't already at L-2. I think part of my uneasy feeling is that you did vote for Drew rather

than me. What was the reasoning for that vote?

[dsjstr]

@Dsjstr

Do you prefer to be lynched instead of Doctor Drew ?

Not at all but I am not sure about your reasoning behind voting Drew over me.

[dsjstr]

I guess nothing

VOTE: Doctor Drew

I don't disagree with this lynch so I won't argue. He started the game sus and he hasn't done anything to change my mind.

[dsjstr]

Does anyone know if Drew lives in America or is into Football? It's Super Bowl Sunday in (expired on 2020-02-02 19:30:00) and if he's watching then there is no way we are getting anything from him anytime soon.

[dsjstr]

Low key just wanted to test out the countdown feature but the Super Bowl is a big deal here.

[dsjstr]

I thought Clidd was town bc effort seemed too strong for scum coming in to a game like this. I was feeling like it was an absence of fear which is usually town indicative, however the whole actions around drew seem terrible.

I put in djest bc drew seems townier since the flash wagon. I remember it being between them in my PoE.

What'd you think of Doro's obsession with finding wolves slipping/signalling to each other?

I can share more of what I was thinking. I know I won't be able to help solve like everyone else, but I know I can still be useful. I thought that I am still a number which is necessary no matter how you look at the game. I was also thinking that if we are

talking about scum hunting based on signals, then everyone would be looking for signals and it would be impossible to get a message across. If the wolves don't know who their team is then they will be easy to pick off one by one. I am confident that

I have made myself useful and that the wolves were not able to signal each other.

[dsjstr]

I know that you have to be talking about my second game which ended and you are correct. But look at my first game, it was my first time playing forum mafia so I was testing the waters. That’s how I chose to play this game, I’m playing with people who have more experience so I want to mainly learn. I have been at L-1 on D1 for every other game on here. I haven’t had a single vote on me this entire game, I am not playing innocent I just have no reason to defend myself.

[dsjstr]

I have class in 15 mins but would have been close to the 48 hours so I'm dropping this. Will definitely be able to give more later.

[dsjstr]

How's the analysis coming along, Norwee?

[dsjstr]

I have class in 15 mins but would have been close to the 48 hours so I'm dropping this. Will definitely be able to give more later.

Don't mean I'm dropping the game, meant the message.

[dsjstr]

One thing i'd like to know though,
@Clidd
@Hectic
Why are you two townreading Aaronfrost?

I've seen aaron as being a neutral are you thinking the same way Norwegian?

[dsjstr]

Doro, what do you think of clidd hammering Norwee? Or vice versa?

I would still put doc in my bottom two... I'll get back to you after I hear from him.

[dsjstr]

You know, upon a reread, I can see potential in your posts coming from a more well meaning but misled townie mindest. I should cut you some slack.
My reads are as follows: Norwee < Doro/Drew < Clidd/Espeonage < Aaron

Doro on the other hand has been focusing too much on catching Wolves slip up and doesn't actually look very interested to solve. Initially, I thought this was coming from a townie mindset, but upon reconsideration, Wolves are going to be more hyper-aware of slips because they're more aware of their strange situation, and might even be thinking about signalling. So wolf!Doro is gonna think it's normal to look out for such slips if he wants to look like a townie.

I think I'm getting pretty good at metareading Drew at this point, I'm 4/4 on his alignment the last 4 times I've played him (3 scum, 1 town - stop rolling scum, Drew!). There's still not

enough

from him to be confident, but he's swinging that way this game so far.

So, Doro hammering Norwee. Or Drew hammering.

I explained my reasoning before, but after hearing what Norwegian said I am thinking that you are just trying to twist my strategy against me.

[dsjstr]

If i'm gonna get lynched for a stupid reason then at least i'd want to take scum with me. And i don't like your thick-headed approach this game Hectic.

I don't see a wolf wanting to get lynched because it takes away the possibility for a D2 lylo, Norwegian was fine with getting lynched as long as their scum read did the hammering. That made me believe he was town and that Hectic wanted me or doc to hammer in order to get a wolf win.

[dsjstr]

I would have put clidd instead of aaron, why did you think I had aaron and espeonage under clidd?

[dsjstr]

If i'm gonna get lynched for a stupid reason then at least i'd want to take scum with me. And i don't like your thick-headed approach this game Hectic.

I don't see a wolf wanting to get lynched because it takes away the possibility for a D2 lylo, Norwegian was fine with getting lynched as long as their scum read did the hammering. That made me believe he was town and that Hectic wanted me or doc to hammer in order to get a wolf win.

Only problem with that theory is that it would require Hectic being the wolf goon since that's the only one who knows who all the scum are.

Are we reading the same game? Because Norwee does not sound like he's okay with getting lynched at all.

What happened to your Drew read? You had him in your bottom two earlier and now you're saying that Hectic would want you

or Drew

to hammer for a wolf win which would require both of you being town hammering another town.

Are you saying that hectic is not the wolf goon?

[dsjstr]

And yes I changed my mind about Drew, part of my reasoning was because of the evidence that was provided by other players. If they are mafia then I had fallen into their trap, kinda... I know it wasn't really a trap necessarily.

[dsjstr]

Clidd's read list:

Spoiler:

Good afternoon.

Yesterday, although I wanted to continue, the rest option was more pleasant for the moment, considering that my mind needed a ''refresh''. Today, upon waking, I enjoyed the opportunity to make a brief reading of the last comments, and did some additions to my notes. It is good to see that everyone managed to share a little of their own opinions and, consequently, demonstrate that they still care about the outcome of the match. But, as we all know, there are three players among us that need to be located and eliminated, in favor of our condition of victory. With that said and with a good cup of coffee in hand, I would like to introduce my partial read of the observations I wrote down throughout the game:

Setup Specific Rules
*There is one Wolf goon and two traitors.
*There is no scum chat.
*For day 1 only, if a member of the werewolves (werewolf Goon or 2 traitors) were to be the last person to vote to lynch a player, they would, themselves, be lynched as well.
*Traitors are only endgamed if they are all lynched. In other words, if the wolf is lynched, they still can win by being the majority.
*The Werewolf knows who the two traitors are, and the Traitors both know who the Wolf is, but they do not know who each other are.
*This game is nightless
*If you are confused about anything ingame, please don't hesitate to question me, and if I deem it worthy enough, I'll add your question to this wall of game specific rules.
*Day Phases will last approximately 10 days. If a consensus of who to lynch isn't reached, then the player that has reached the most amount of votes first will be lynched.


Le Roles
4 Vanilla Townies
1 Werewolf Goon
2 Werewolf Traitors

The first thing i noticed, after entering the room, were the specifications that characterize the setup, with five peculiar points:

1°

There is one Wolf goon and two traitors

- Unlike a conventional setup, as are those belonging to the scope of newbie games, it has three instead of two members belonging to the scum side. This impacts the game in the sense that, considering that town side does not have mechanical tools (prs), it becomes much more difficult to find associative evidence between the three individuals, if not impossible.

This context benefits neutral players much more significantly than aggressive ones

.

2°

There is no scum chat

- There is no private communication exclusive to them, which prevents more elaborate pre-day strategies. However, it does not completely stop the execution of more intuitive movements of common sense

(including self-vote too)

.

3°

For day 1 only, if a member of the werewolves (werewolf Goon or 2 traitors) were to be the last person to vote to lynch a player, they would, themselves, be lynched as well

- I believe that this rule, in isolation, suggests a generalized misinterpretation, if not complemented with additional information displayed in the messages along with the roles. Such deficiency opens up the possibility that i mentioned in post 80, where a scum can claim innocent by hammering a partner and not automatically die (which contradicts the initial interpretation of the rule).

Pointing this out in post 51 was essential

to clear up that doubt, but it was also strange not to have been mentioned by someone else before. I believe that not only me, but others were also aware of this disparity in interpretations, but they chose not to comment.

This also suggests the reasoning that the scum, as a rule, should vote early, to avoid the hammering situation later.

4°

The Werewolf knows who the two traitors are, and the Traitors both know who the Wolf is, but they do not know who each other are

- Considering this, signaling scenarios don't come into play.

This would make the misunderstanding described in post 91 correct.

5°

This game is nightless

- In addition to emphasizing the morning period and prioritizing the voting stage, there are two others characteristics: the fact that it is not possible to eliminate an active voice player, whose presence would be a threat to the late game, and the incentive to not do risky gambits, considering that the game can end at any time, if performed incorrectly. It is very likely that the approach by scums, given this scenario, would be more incisive, considering that they can win if they advance a player's lynch early in the day.

Based on that, they would jump at the first viable wagon opportunity

5.

Given the comments on the rules, i will proceed to the posts:

I'M WILLING TO HAMMER! DO YOU HEAR THAT? I AM WILLING TO HAMMER!!

The theory I created about the post above disregarded any interpersonal traits about Norwiegan's personality, considering the possibility of being a biased act. The use of caps lock further enhances this ''fabricated'' attention, allowing for a deliberate misread and providing a safe vote, without much contestation, as it delivers a plausible motivation to be suspicious. However, as i noticed in his response to my advances in 94. Unconsciously, he seemed genuinely uncomfortable with my pseudo-accusations, which i used as a tool of controlled pressure, precisely to get a sudden response. I don't think he is, in fact, lock-scum, mainly because of the empathy i had when observing his read about me, as mentioned in 117.

VOTE: Norwee

Vote: Norway

VOTE: Norwegian

Hectic, Espeonage and Dsjstr started a wagon, encouraged by the content that, to common sense, seemed justifiable to condemn, or at least, pressure. Judging by the time of execution of the votes, which took place from 7-6 posts, respectively, the information processing and decision making time was very similar, something that i consider as a sign of doubt about Doctor Drew's vote ( 13), which curiously, diverged from the common opinion and is present between posts 12 and 18. In other words, he was unaffected by the first comment because of a pre-established response, that guided his vote.

Probably a scum response.

(L-1 on Norwee)

I consider this post interesting, not only for his concern, but also for his veracity. If we look closely, there was a 13 minute delay to respond to the third vote (18), however, I noticed that he posted one minute after the announcement, progressing on a scale ranging from 3, 5 and 2, until he finished his sequence of posts 2 minutes before sending post 20 here. In other words, close to the time when the third vote was confirmed, he was already typing in another topic, where he remained until 2 minutes before his answer here, showing that this was the time he navigated from one topic to the other, confirming his concern about a possible accidental hammer.

S-sorry to bother you. Any opinion on Norwee's case on him?

I think Norwee has a valid point about clidd being a little too confident on his read and basing his solving around Norwee being scum. It doesn't really 'feel' intentional though or at least it feels non-malicious, I think it's more of a subconscious thing and I don't see his tone as hostile like Norwee said it was.

I think I'm also gonna go with a weakish townlean on Norwee at the moment just because I think town!Norwee has a tendency to take heat early like what's happening here.

Although i don't appreciate the explicit indecision present in Aaron's posts, and see his characteristic of impartiality, in this context, as a way to avoid having to take a side (a scum attitude), i believe that his questioning, partially puzzled, led to him to reconsider the aspects that structured his read, so it is still too early to definitively formulate an opinion on him. I hope that i can, effectively, determine his alignment next day.

To my understanding for D1 if a wolf hammers then they die even if they are hammering a wolf, I meant that if someone hammers D1 and they don't die they have to be town. Am I understanding the rule correctly?

I'm probably trying too hard to find the wolves slip up, it just seems like an obvious way to catch a mafia.

I'M WILLING TO HAMMER! DO YOU HEAR THAT? I AM WILLING TO HAMMER!!

Go ahead

I was thinking the werewolf has all the knowledge and the traitors have enough to be able to figure out who the other traitor is. I talked about the signal being between you and Drew the first time because I see RVS as the time to get away with signalling by voting. I could really look at any interaction and claim it is signalling but I like coming up with theories like that.

He seems to try, as far as possible, to actively engage in the development of the case. I do not consider him as an innocent newbie, mainly because of his doubts, suggestively forced, as if try to justify himself by the mantle of ''inexperienced'', lowering himself in the process to gain empathy for others. His town-slips are unlikely to be authentic.

I have two soft town reads, one soft scum read. So I am happy to vote within my unsorted pool bc if I am right it only includes one town and if we are voting on both we can't lose out day 1 with it.

So my Lynch pool is djester, DD, Norway, and aron.

I am willing to give a soft af town read to Aaron for caring my opinion.

So I am happy to get one of those three to hammer one of the others. Prefs for Norway to be included. Still feel his early game is scum indicative. Anyone got opinions about this?

I admire the inaccuracy in my read about you, considering that, naturally, due to your style of play, I tend to read it as null. You are vaguely well-intentioned, but i think that a slightly more aggressive approach would drastically change my opinion of you (early, of course).

With that said, this would be my distribution:

Dsjstr -

Scum indicative

Hectic -

Joker

(Can flip both sides)
Doctor Drew -

Scum indicative

NorwieganboyEE -

Town indicative

AaronFrost -

Town indicative

Espeonage -

Scum indicative

Particualrly, i would like to lynch

Doctor Drew

or

Dsjstr

today. If my partial read did not please the public, i am prepared for the case of being voted. But, obviously, im selecting the person who will hammer me. In both scenarios, we will lynch a scum.

If i'm gonna get lynched for a stupid reason then at least i'd want to take scum with me. And i don't like your thick-headed approach this game Hectic.

I don't see a wolf wanting to get lynched because it takes away the possibility for a D2 lylo, Norwegian was fine with getting lynched as long as their scum read did the hammering. That made me believe he was town and that Hectic wanted me or doc to hammer in order to get a wolf win.

Only problem with that theory is that it would require Hectic being the wolf goon since that's the only one who knows who all the scum are.

Are we reading the same game? Because Norwee does not sound like he's okay with getting lynched at all.

What happened to your Drew read? You had him in your bottom two earlier and now you're saying that Hectic would want you

or Drew

to hammer for a wolf win which would require both of you being town hammering another town.

Are you saying that hectic is not the wolf goon?

After Aaron's comment about how my theory was wrong because it would require Hectic to be the wolf goon, I started piecing the puzzle together. If clidd is the werewolf then it explains his early read list, and the fact that he had Aaron as town even

though there wasn't great evidence for it. I keep going back to the time when clidd agreed to hammer Doc and the fact that Aaron was the person who said he would not agree to join the wagon. The reason he gave was because he didn't see a reason

and wanted to wait until his V/LA ended. It also conveniently prevented clidd from not having to hammer. I have no idea who the third person could be, looking at clidds reads Hectic/Norwegian and possibly trying to pocket the other. The third person

doesn't matter, I'd go with Aaron hammering Clidd.

p-edit: ummmm just a guess Norwegian

[dsjstr]

p-edit: ummmm just a guess Norwegian

?

As I was typing my read list you said that I seemed town because of my lack of confidence, so I was making a joke.

[dsjstr]

I'm going to follow my own reads, I played a newbie game where Chemist(vt) played similarly to Drew. At the time I looked into chemist and from a brief overview he was playing completely differently in other games. If drew typically changes his play

style in the middle of a game then I'll go back to having him as my lynch target, I can always do it myself eventually. I understand that Drew and Chemist are two different people but I feel a similarity between the two scenarios.

VOTE: clidd

[dsjstr]

Hmm actually I looked at the game and I was wrong...



So yeah, Doc do you have a read list or anything?

[dsjstr]

Idk, and I was wrong about how chemist played anyways.

[dsjstr]

Is this a trick question?

[dsjstr]

Guess I better start posting more.

[dsjstr]

Then you can finally town read me.

[dsjstr]

[dsjstr]

I was scum reading him because of what Norwegian and cliff said about him.

[dsjstr]

I didn’t change my mind because other people were town reading him.

[dsjstr]

The fact that he is an easy target that has a few people ready to kill him. I also believe that we can get more info from another lynch.

[dsjstr]

Yeah, definitely don't wait for Drew actually. Take that as an invitation to hammer.

K

[dsjstr]

bruhhh

I wasn't going to say anything because there was nothing in the game specific rules that said that that. We would then be able to assume that we would go to D2 without a chance of going into a D3 lylo.

[dsjstr]

Oh jk it is at the end of the last rule

[dsjstr]

I need to start reading before I just say stuff

[dsjstr]

I thought it was based on the standard rules of just going to D2, I assumed incorrectly

[dsjstr]

Trying to pocket the moderator. You’ve got ambitions friend.

Trying to get the vote off slimer...you don't fool me!

[dsjstr]

They should rename this to: "memer among us"

I'm dead

[dsjstr]

On second thought, I agree with this scenario as well.

You are talking about Looker hammering me?

[dsjstr]

UNVOTE: Looker

if you don't mind voting him, Espeonage. I guarantee my hammer will not be fictional like your posts.

So saucy

[dsjstr]

I take Lookers obsession with seeing Norway as scum meaning that Norway is actually town.

[dsjstr]

Anything I can do to help or am I just lockscum, I can self-hammer if you are that confident in your p7 reads

[dsjstr]

...Opinion on today so far.

I don't like this wagon especially because all 5 of you think it is me ...although I am happy with not giving town any more info

VOTE: dsjstr

[dsjstr]

People did not react to my lynch the way I hoped they would, you guys had us from the start good job everyone.