Micro 934 | Hungarian Music 2 | Over

[shiki]

get a room: shiki, farkran, keiji and sara

farkran is mechanically minded in a way that i am not. alisae and farkran are very familiar with eachother.

[shiki]

Shiki, Eve, and Kanna? It's 'bout to get lit!

<3

[shiki]

Shiki, have you gone into my meta?

i have, though not as extensively as i'd like yet.

maybe I'm crazy but shouldn't you wait until you have reasons to town read them before getting a room?

part of my process is to determine what i think a likely gameplan for the mafia team would be, and to look for players enacting that. from thinking about the setup, i'm largely unable to determine what would be optimal for scum, in terms of night actions. while there are other mechanically minded players in the game (yourself for instance, you've modded for quite some time), it seemed difficult to find a check outside of alisae for farkran. the main concern with the rooms from last game was that they would be more beneficial to mafia for pocketing town, so an addition player felt like a natural inclusion. having an additional additional player (kanna being part of alisae's hydra) felt like a bonus. since it's very unlikely they are both mafia, i didn't feel waiting was necessary.

[shiki]

i'm not claiming any alternate win conditions but i want to get in as many as possible because it is vital to my health and wellbeing

is this a crumb?

Spoiler:

[shiki]

I didn't play the first iteration of this

if you'd like to read the previous iterations:

micro 925 (hungarian music): viewtopic.php?f=83&t=82333

micro 545 (slavic music): viewtopic.php?f=84&t=63992

micro 558 (slavic music 2): viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506

[shiki]

pedit2: VOTE: Eve sounds easy then, only one more to go

do you think her dumb tells are more egregious than yours?

[shiki]

I mean, she confessed being a werewolf

i meant more in her not knowing the setup or how the votes works, much like you. i understand that mafia is more likely to claim mafia.

[shiki]

I hope Alisae plays this game

this statement is pretty scummy. it can't be properly addressed at face value and it subtly shades the keiji and sara slot (by implying alisae sometimes does not play games e joins) while masquerading as a positive statement (i hope alisae plays... because i enjoy eir presence).

[shiki]

how is it AI shade? he's not indicating that Alisae not playing a game is scum-indicative

i think sircakez was implying more than that, but even if not his statement gives the rest of us a negative impression of a player who hasn't posted while appearing to be a positive statement. like it was designed to make sircakez look better to us and alisae worse. that seems scummy to me.

[shiki]

i don't know how you're drawing so much from that post - i doubt sircakez was trying to make us all subconsciously think less of Alisae while keeping his intentions subtle

what do you draw from his post?

to get us acquainted

here's hoping my first room goes through soon so i can then get a room with you as well. if over solving is something you're going to continue to scumread me for it's somewhat unlikely your vote ever moves, unfortunately.

[shiki]

get a room: eve, shiki, ame, aaronfrost/zote the mighty

[shiki]

Wait I actually think we should strategize a bit so everyone gets a room cause of the 2 rooms per person thing

it is strategically important that my second room contains ame.

[shiki]

i believe farkran is town. he and i had very similar thoughts with regards to karnage's posts questioning the neighbourhood, and he wants to use our neighbourhood in a very similar way to the way i do.

[shiki]

Town lean because this weird opposition doesn't seem like the move for scum here. Drawing a lot of attention.

i think at the very least if karnage is scum he has not read hungarian music 1, due to this sort of opposition partially leading to scum being caught day 1.

[shiki]

get a room: keiji and sara, sircakez, eve

[shiki]

How do you plan to use it?

to confer with neighbours concerning reads on shared neighbours. i've already said as much in the neighbourhood, but this is why i said this:

it is strategically important that my second room contains ame.

as ame and i both shared a room with farkran.

[shiki]

get a room: aaronfrost, baezu, karnage, sircakez

[shiki]

could zote, farkran or ame please hammer the room vote?

[shiki]

Do you guys know if KaS was guarding anyone?

do eve/sircakez know? also, was anyone guarding keiji and sara?

[shiki]

alisae mentioned e wouldn't be protecting anyone in our hood

we were told keiji and sara informed you and sircakez that they would not be protecting anyone and at deadline told us they protected ame. i asked as i was waiting on an answer from farkran regarding whether there was any reason for us to not out who they protected.

[shiki]

why exactly did 3 of protect Ame?

i protected ame because she asked you to protect her in the neighbourhood and your response was that aaron or i would roleblock you because we had this information. this seemed very strange to me, like you wanted to kill ame and frame us for it. keiji and sara did not give a reason for protecting ame.

Shiki why were you on me if Eve and KaS were?

i did not know keiji and sara were also on you until minutes before the deadline, and i did not trust eve.

[shiki]

@Shiki did you inform Fark you were on me beforehand?

i did not. keiji and sara posted minutes before the deadline and i waited until seconds before the deadline.

shiki why did you think that was suspicious - isn't Ame asking me to protect her pointless if you two are aware of it and could be scum?

i thought it was suspicious because of the way you presented it. instead of proposing the simple solution - shiki/aaron also protects ame - it seemed like you were potentially laying the groundwork for a future case against us.

[shiki]

Shiki, do you agree or disagree with this

it doesn't really make any sense to me. if you were scum with someone who could chat with eve separately, then you would know whether or not eve has said anywhere that she was targeting anyone other than you. targeting you would be a completely unnecessary risk.

[shiki]

targeting anyone other than you. targeting you would be a completely unnecessary risk.

the first targeting is referring to the bodyguard night action and the second targeting is referring to the night kill. sorry for any confusion.

[shiki]

basically, if eve has only said she is going to target you with the night action (information you would have if you were scum with someone in eve's other neighbourhood), then targeting eve directly seems optimal since there is no risk of you dying and you still get the towncred from being able to claim you were the target of the night kill.

[shiki]

Killing Eve

Spoiler: Hid animated gif --P

[shiki]

@eve/sircakez did keiji and sara give any final reads? do you agree with farkran that no other than farkran had reason to directly target keiji and sara?

Say a bodyguard would target Eve without announcing it. Scum kills eve, another bodyguard dies in her place = Ame townpoints go down the drain.

It's a risk, but it's not unnecessary - or rather, it doesn't go without a significant reward. If scum!Ame knows exactly that Eve is protecting her, scum!Ame targets Ame, not Eve.

if a bodyguard protected ame without announcing it, it would potentially mess up the self-target as well.

if scum!ame targets eve and an unannounced bodyguard protects her, townpoints gone.
if scum!ame targets eve and there is no unannounced bodyguard, plan successful.
if scum!ame targets eve and there is no unannounced bodyguard and eve is lying about protecting her for whatever reason, eve dies and ame still gets the townpoints.

if scum!ame targets ame and an unannounced bodyguard also protects her, 50%+ chance of townpoints gone.
if scum!ame targets ame and there is no unannounced bodyguard, plan successful.
if scum!ame targets ame and there is no unannounced bodyguard and eve is lying about protecting her for whatever reason, ame dies.

so it's weighing the likelihood of an unannounced bodyguard protecting eve versus the likelihood of an unannounced bodyguard protecting ame while also considering that ame can only die if she self-targets*.

this still seems an unnecessary risk to me, but i agree the upside is slightly higher.

*thinking about this also reminded me that ame asked about whether or not mafia could self-target in the thread shortly before the lynch. seems unlikely that mafia would do so and then self-target in the night as a means of getting towncred.

[shiki]

I'd like a room with Shiki.

get a room: ame, shiki

[shiki]

it can't be properly addressed at face value

i think sircakez was implying more than that

Ahhh I shouldn't have brought this up
It's ongoing

since doubles mafia has now ended, i still think this was pretty scummy.

Hmm, the guild doesn't approve of these posts.

why doesn't the guild approve?

[shiki]

I thought about roleplaying a bit more but hmm...I'm out of it.

but sircakez was implying more than he was purportedly saying there. what would be the town motivation for that statement?

[shiki]

He wasn't? Ali had lurked it out in other hydra games, it was a comment about he wishing that it doesn't happen again, I feel.

Regardless of his alignment, I don't feel that post has anything to do with it. It's a personal feeling.

at the time, alisae was lurking in an ongoing game as a hydra. him drawing attention to this that cannot be responded to is scummy.

[shiki]

We don't even know now who Keiji and Sara targeted/why they died as far as I know. In fact that's stupid.

i do not understand what you think the day two discussion so far has been about if you do not know who keiji and sara targeted (ame).

[shiki]

Let' me get something right though:

1) Who was in a hood with KS?

2) What they said about their target if you were in a hood with them

3) Who else is in the Shiki/Fark hood where KS said she would target Ame?

keiji and sara were in two neighbourhoods:

keiji and sara/frakran/shiki

and

keiji and sara/eve/sircakez

keiji and sara told farkran and i they protected ame.

[shiki]

Did Farkran coincidentally ask KaS who they were going to protect or KaS claimed on their own/out of the blue?

keiji and sara earlier in the night stated that they told eve and sircakez that they would not be protecting anyone and that they would try to inform us of who they protected at deadline. a few minutes before the deadline they told us they protected ame.

[shiki]

@Ame, in what hoods you're in and did you receive any information during night other than what you've already said here?

all of the neighbourhoods are in plotinus's first post. ame's neighbourhoods are:

ame/farkran

ame/shiki/eve/churros

[shiki]

For example saying that Eve said "shiki will roleblock me" when Eve said in the hood 'IF shiki or zota is scum, they can roleblock me"

i believe you are referring to this:

your response was that aaron or i would roleblock you because we had this information.

there was the very simple solution of one of shiki/aaron additionally protecting ame. it is very odd that eve would simply state it does not do anything for eve to protect ame because we also had the information. if you are referring to my dropping the 'if one of them are scum' clause, we would not be able to roleblock eve if we were not scum so it felt redundant.

[shiki]

Shiki stayed silent about targeting Ame until today.

this is inaccurate. i stated i was protecting ame in the neighbourhood with farkran and keiji and sara seconds before the deadline, as i said here:

keiji and sara posted minutes before the deadline and i waited until seconds before the deadline.

Shiki, I would like you to be very precise with your wording here. Very precise.

Did KaS when claiming she wouldn't protect anyone in the other hood, hint that she was going to say who she would protect later in deadline?

did she hint or imply she would target someone or that she had lied in the other hood?

keiji and sara said they told eve and sircakez that they were not protecting anyone. in the same post, they said that they would make an effort to tell us who they were protecting at the deadline. this was approximately seven hours after the night began. i would not describe any of this as hinting or implying, but rather directly informing.

[shiki]

Shiki, what is your read on Farkran?

What about his early townblock?

i think farkran is likely to be town. his approach to this game was very similar to mine. the two things that make me doubt this slightly are a coincidence i noted in the neighbourhood (which a now confirmed town did not think was noteworthy) and the possibility of the baezu wagon being an arranged counterwagon to farkran's.

the early townblock did not bother me as it does not require those included in it to also function as if the others are confirmed town. i did not agree that sircakez was towny at that time, but farkran operating as though sircakez is town does not require me to do the same.

[shiki]

Shiki, do you believe in the Excalibur I wield?

i think your approach upon replacing in has been very towny. the only reservations i have about this are that it would also make sense as an approach if you were eve's partner, since that is where the pressure was when you appeared and instantly began trying to diffuse it, before even reading the game.

[shiki]

Shiki, what you think of my junior, Major Eve?

Do you believe in my junior as much as you believe in my noble Excalibur?

i think eve is somewhat likely to be mafia. your nightkill analysis seems flawed in that it doesn't take into account how many lynches town has left. eve narrowing the potential scum pool to (eve, shiki, aaron) with an ame kill would be terrible if her partner were lynched day one, but since town was lynched she would only need to successfully push one of you or me to eliminate town's last mislynch. from that position she would still have the other to push, and even if she were lynched on the swingback her partner would be alive in final three and the last few days would have been largely occupied with hunting within that closed subset for the scum so there would be less to go off of to judge those outside of the group. this doesn't seem like an unlikely plan for the mafia to concoct to me.

Alternatively, as a completely useless question, what are you doing right now Shiki?

I hope you aren't hearing hungarian music on youtube, or searching for cat videos.

if you are asking if i listened to the song plotinus posted, i did not as it was unavailable in my country. i generally do listen to the rest as i both appreciate the work he has put into this game and i enjoy being exposed to music i am unfamiliar with.

[shiki]

If you think Eve is likely mafia and disagree with my take, why you didn't vote her and why didn't you disagree with me like that as I posted my case?

it is likely that i will vote for her and i was waiting for more responses to your entrance.

[shiki]

Ok but you didn't reply to why you think Eve is likely mafia

i think eve was attempting to kill ame and frame me or you for it, as i've stated previously, which you are aware of.

[shiki]

that's your entire read on her?

you've no opinion in her posts here in the main thread?

i also think the dumbtells were suspicious, as you know from having access to the neighbourhood. i think both her hammer and sircakez l-1 from the baezu wagon were suspicious. part of the reason i discount the possibility of it being an arranged counterwagon to farkran's was the speed at which the lynch happened, which makes it unlikely that farkran endorsed it. so if it was an arranged counterwagon it is unlikely that farkran is partnered with eve/sircakez, but it is more likely to me that it was not an arranged counterwagon and the speed of it was due to scum hopping on. i think most of this can be inferred from my posts in the neighbourhood as well.

[shiki]

and Shiki now implied that Ame is "confirmed town" when we're far from that level of confidence with the NK theory.

while i do think ame is more likely than not town, where did i imply this?

[shiki]

here

but now that I think about it, you were in a hood with KaS, maybe you did talk the same thing you talked in our hood there and I failed to notice.

this was a reference to kanna, from the keiji and sara hydra.

[shiki]

what is your read on Ame shiki?

I would like the most insight possible in the reply if you can

i think ame's approach to my slot was very towny. the differences she observed between my play this game and in a previous game we played together made sense to me, and the way ame asked me about it (open-endedly asking me if i felt my play early in this game was different than my play early in another) was towny in that it was not unfair or leading and it also did not allow me to know what answer she might be looking for. basically, ame seemed to have no pre-game assumption or knowledge of alignment but seemed to be investigating something she noticed. ame and i had differing interpretations of karnage's posts about my forming an early neighbourhood, but this was likely an earnest difference of opinion since others shared her view of it. while discussing ame with farkran, i looked over all of ame's games which i hadn't previously. i thought some of her posts in mini normal 2118 were comparable to the way she interacted with me about my reads on sircakez's and karnage's posts early game. from her scum game (open 774), this post:

viewtopic.php?p=11637552#p11637552

Everyone should provide exactly their top 3 town reads (no more, no less) and exactly 2 strongest scum reads.

stood out the most to me as it was very similar to one of the post restrictions she suggested:

Post Restriction: If a player hits page top, they must post their top two scum picks in their next post.

i also noted that she focused on discussing the setup instead of solving alignments at times in that game, but that seems much less pronounced here than it did there. otherwise, her play in that game seems dissimilar to her play in this game to me, as she explained her reads at a seemingly unnecessary length in that game and reacted like people were wrong for scumreading her. that last part may not be applicable here since she has not been pressured very much.

i think ame's discussion of the night kill today seems to come from an uninformed perspective and i think it would be unlikely that ame would target herself with the nightkill. i think it would also be unlikely that ame would target keiji and sara with the nightkill. overall, i think ame is more likely than not town.

[shiki]

Shiki who else you checked previous games/meta dived and how did it contribute to your reads

you can sum it up in this one, otherwise it might get too long.

i am familiar with at least one game from all of the players. i think farkran feels detached here comparatively, which he has also acknowledged, but i certainly would not describe that as scum indicative. i think i would be more likely to think it was if i were not familiar with any of his games. i do not think i would have found sircakez's post about alisae as scummy if i was not familiar with other games. from looking over her games, i found eve to be very difficult for me to read, so my read on her is based almost entirely on actions in this game and motivations i could see for them. i have not yet specifically looked into your games outside of the ones i was already familiar with, but plan to do so soon.

[shiki]

That's a good idea Ame.

it is strange to me that you would describe a plan that involves one of your scumreads potentially deciding the day's lynch as a 'good idea'.

[shiki]

what is your read on the cakez shiki?

i do not have a strong independent read on sircakez. i think one of his statements was scum motivated (as discussed) and i think the baezu l-1 was scummy, especially since the reasoning provided seemed to preemptively place blame on others before the flip. i am largely null on the rest of his content. however, my two strongest townreads are both voting him and alisae scumread him for the way he supported the farkran wagon day one in their neighbourhood, so this bolsters my scumread.

[shiki]

?

that is what alisae said about you during the night when i asked why e thought eir other room contained both scum.

[shiki]

can you elaborate?

alisae said e thought there were two scum in eir other room. i asked why. alisae said you were scummy in the way you were supporting the farkran lynch in your neighbourhood, and that eve seemed like your most likely partner, and that e thought there was likely one scum between me and eve because of the way eve continued to scumread me for saying over the top things. i asked how that would make me scum if eve were town to which alisae replied that it would give her point more credibility.

[shiki]

the more i think about it the more churros's play here is bothering me. churros entered the game and gave forty-five reasons why eve was town while keeping their lynch options extremely open outside of that. churros gave a scumread of sircakez, then followed sircakez onto farkran, then said it was a 'good plan' for karnage (churros's other scumread) to decide the lynch.

[shiki]

I would rather not explain the full conotations that kanage deciding the lynch between Farkran/Cakez can imply, since it's two players which I consider viable partners, it would only make how he acts here harder to read?

But...even if you insisted in me explaining, I don't know how to put it in words other than what's...a bit obvious?

Either way, if Karnage isn't scum, I think Farkran is, therefore him lynching Farkran depending on the flip, helps me solve his own slot. If he chooses cakez, we'll see the flip, and we can talk/think about it as well?

It's eliminating one player from my pool and giving me info at the same time. What's your problem with it other than the simplistic "you think karnage is wolf therefore you should vote him and ignore everything else/gamestate?"

I don't enjoy pointless actions. Voting karnage here today is pointless.

this seems to be in line with ame's explanation to me and i think it makes sense from your point of view. much of my hesitation here has to do with how far apart we are on our reads of eve and it is making me weigh the likelihood of you being partnered with her heavier than i would otherwise. the rest of my issue stems from the fact you are giving choices to your scumreads which you can then blame your scumreads for making instead of facing any of the blowback yourself. if you're scum and farkran/karnage are town, you're setting yourself up for the win by putting karnage in this position. since i think farkran is town and i don't have a strong read on karnage, i am also weighing this possibility somewhat heavily.

[shiki]

thankyou for moderating.

well played ame and eve.