Micro 946 mantis leadership (black pit) - Game Over

[superbowl9]

What's up yall! Didn't get a notif

Got a slight town read on Zulf, don't think SOC multiposting is really a scummy trait

I'll be back on in a few hours to check stuff out closer

[superbowl9]

What does SOC mean, superbowl9?

Stream of consciousness

[superbowl9]

I do not vibe with your playstyle but you have some town points.

Why the town points?

Votato, what do you think of NCM?

Also are we just gonna not mention that NCM FOSes Zulfy for 20 because he doesn't get "jokes", and Gypyx just sits back for 3 posts to let it happen, despite clarifying that 20 is (obviously) not a joke??? Even responding to NCM but not addressing this?

Also NCM how many points would it deduct if I vote for you

[superbowl9]

Nooo: I've put Thought into the things I've posted.
Stream of consciousness woulda meant voting for votato as soon as I said I wanted to. And then prolly unvoted.

Not what I meant by SOC, if you say most of what's on your mind or "think out loud" in the thread that's SOC. What you're talking about I would say would be impulsive behavior.

Also inutile are you planning on posting substance anytime soon? Your posts have been fluffy so far

pedit: Also not quite sure about 145, if it was a reaction test then wouldn't it be to find ppl who wanted an "excuse" to come into the thread late?

pedit2: I didn't get a notif because i forgot to sub the thread lol, so sadly I had only myself to blame

[superbowl9]

Why the town points?

Tryharding isn't something I like to consider AI even though deep down i know that I townread it

Gotcha

[superbowl9]

Also inutile are you planning on posting substance anytime soon? Your posts have been fluffy so far

[superbowl9]

inutile - 48

yes yes i'm meant to comment on more than that from three pages but the answer is relevant to the rest of my thinking.

You say this.... I'm still waiting for "the rest", wondering if it's coming anytime soon or if you're going to analyze this reaction test for the rest of the day

[superbowl9]

That's what I was looking for

/s on the rest of the day thing lol

what do you think from those pages should be commented on?

i'm meant to comment on more than that from three pages

If you thought 3 pages of material warrants a comment, why wouldn't 7?

[superbowl9]

I would love if you commented on the NCM thing, in fact I would love if everyone commented on that, but such is the game - you have to pick and choose where you push people. More info in day threads is better for town.

However I mostly just wanted to see what

you

wanted to highlight, instead of letting me pick out things for you to comment on. You said 123 as if you

should

have had more than "a measly question" after 3 pages. Thus you:

1. Saw that NCM knocked you and felt the need to justify yourself
2. Assumed NCM knocked you because you only brought up 1 item from the last 3 pages
3. Justified your action (only bringing up 1 thing) by stating that you'd have more substance once this reaction test shenanigan was figured out

What I thought after that was:
1. Why care so much about being slightly scumread by 1 player that you try to justify without even hearing the reasoning?
2. What's the other substance that's supposedly "on the way"?

When I tried to get my answer to question 2, you went from this:

yes yes i'm meant to comment on more than that from three pages but the answer is relevant to the rest of my thinking.

to

if there is something specific you'd like me to comment on or provide substance with regards to than ask away.

So my thoughts now are:
1. You've been quite defensive after fairly light prodding
2. If you truly had nothing else substantive to say about the game, then you've been posting fluff disguised as substance, as I accused you of
3. If you did have something to say, why not say it instead of 168 and 170?

BTW

I townread you, in case you were wondering

[superbowl9]

BTW

I townread you, in case you were wondering

Then what was the point of this post

Reasoning for my read, if you think hard enough I think you can figure it out

[superbowl9]

my main comment would be that i wouldn't have any expectation for gypyx to comment on non compos mentis cognitive load statement without further prompting. seems like a weird expectation for you to have. not something i can draw any conclusion from however.

All good, but if I FOS someone based on a misunderstanding of what you said, wouldn't you want to clear that up? I would

i assumed the reasoning due to the aforementioned potential familiarity and the context of non compos mentis post. the other substance was my reasoning for asking that and my reads of the situation, which i did not want to present at that time due to them hinging on the answer to the question.

That answers my question - so in 7 pages all the substance you saw hinged on that one reaction test that didn't actually happen. Hence why I said your posts felt fluffy

my responses in 168 and 170 were attempts to gauge whether you were interested in sorting or simply pushing.

Makes sense

[superbowl9]

ugh what a dull thread. no shitposts. the content is wayyyy too serious about details that probably dont matter. this game is starting to feel like its gonna be a real slog.

>Need more shitposts
>Need to comment on details that matter

But I think I need a new Taco Bell order, recommend anything?

[superbowl9]

184 Best reads in this thread

[superbowl9]

I like you gypyx but 189 is 100% wrong

I think we might need /s tags in this thread...

[superbowl9]

Not that you're overanalyzing, I just disagree with your analysis votato's response addressed it

[superbowl9]

how is it that in 8 pages of super serious posting we have discovered nothing about anything?

Isn't this just pre-wagon Day 1

Let's start one!
VOTE: non compos mentis

pedit: that timing 0.0

[superbowl9]

Join my wagon - fun is included

[superbowl9]

One of the biggest mysteries to me: you come to an online mafia forum then complain it's boring when you have to actually play mafia

[superbowl9]

Well, NonGooble looks to be V/LA currently, so i'd like to get another wagon going, as this one will take some time to actually get resultats from the main target

True, ill hop on this one
VOTE: Votato

[superbowl9]

People who don't want to play are anti-town (although that includes you )

[superbowl9]

Allomancer, if you could lynch 1 person right now who would it be?

[superbowl9]

Would like someone to do a switcheroo, not hard to do.
When your about to shoot a cop in the head and realize the gangsters a better choice so you Shoot him before you mess up.

As in join your wagon? Because I'm down

The new pic is

FRESH

NCM

You're right. I initially thought Zulfy was talking about 21 because I clicked on 20 on mobile and it looked like I was redirected to 21. Once I realised the error I dropped the issue.

So does this change your gypyx read?

Also

cannot

believe we're still talking about zulfy's townread strat - is it just me or has this been explained/over analyzed like 3 times???

try as hard as I might (and I really did try), I don't see how you come to the conclusion of townreading inutile at the end of 173.

Good

Scum!votato on the other hand can fake annoyance at the thread being dull - which may be a result of if he's scum and is struggling to get into the game due to the lengthy discussions.

Hard agree - If scumtato pulled up in the post game thread and said "Wow can't believe complaining got me that win muahaha" I would never live it down

Also, we almost have half day 1 passed by, would be good if we were to get a move on

We have someone at L-1, not sure how much more moving you want here

[superbowl9]

Say no more fam
VOTE: elbirin

[superbowl9]

Also, we almost have half day 1 passed by, would be good if we were to get a move on

LAMIST. this vote goes beyond that one post. gyp just feels kinda off. can elaborate more as needed.

VOTE: gypyx

also, gobbles is town here. that was a good vote on me. i will up the shitposting for your sake senpai.

Deflecting from logical's wagon anymore will confirm you as scum

[superbowl9]

Also, we almost have half day 1 passed by, would be good if we were to get a move on

LAMIST. this vote goes beyond that one post. gyp just feels kinda off. can elaborate more as needed.

VOTE: gypyx

also, gobbles is town here. that was a good vote on me. i will up the shitposting for your sake senpai.

Deflecting from logical's wagon anymore will confirm you as scum

sheeping logical simply because he is IC anymore will confirm you as scum.

“Simply because he is IC”
Have you read his posts????
Scum confirmed

[superbowl9]

Welcome back big zulf

[superbowl9]

it was pretty clear my vote votato wasn't going anywhere at the moment

what qualifies as going somewhere?
Votato's at L1 right now no?

True but at the moment, i felt like the votato wagon wasn't going to pick up the pace, so i just tried something else

^This is the scummiest town play I've ever seen LOL

[superbowl9]

it was pretty clear my vote votato wasn't going anywhere at the moment

what qualifies as going somewhere?
Votato's at L1 right now no?

True but at the moment, i felt like the votato wagon wasn't going to pick up the pace, so i just tried something else

^This is the scummiest town play I've ever seen LOL

Idk i'm trying out stuff man, why do you consider it a town play then?

True and it's good that you're trying stuff, but think about it: scum doesn't care which of the town they lynch. Thus switching your vote behind whichever wagon seems to have the most momentum at the time is something scum might do.

It's a town play because I believe you're town, by both light POE and because your reasonings have been quite far off the mark for a few of your interactions, I don't think scum would disguise their scum actions this little

[superbowl9]

if anything my lack of effort is town-indicative. being town is boring. day 1 sucks. at some point ill probably get engaged and get into it, but in the meantime ill stick to shitposting and commenting once in a while.

Great, let's kill your partner and get to D2

[superbowl9]

This is strategy so take it with a grain of salt, but mafia is a game of information. You get to choose what information/thought processes you make public, so only put out the ones that benefit you most. If you write out something as town and you're like "on second thought that seems scummy" don't post it! After all if town is scumhunting you then you're wasting town's time. Thus it can be good to bring a little bit of the "scum filter" into town games as well.

[superbowl9]

Zulfy I think you should join our wagon

[superbowl9]

Also gypyx, hop on the wagon!

[superbowl9]

Cmon yall
221
248

[superbowl9]

why is wagon for the sake of wagon good? what results did the brief votato L-1 yield?

There is a

very

good reason for the Elbrin wagon...
There's enough there already for you to figure it out

[superbowl9]

Thank you!

[superbowl9]

Look harder

[superbowl9]

If votato can get it so can you

[superbowl9]

I'll take those chances

[superbowl9]

You think your scumhunting has a better probability of success LMAO???

[superbowl9]

Sadly agreed

[superbowl9]

Tbh i don't get the elbirn wagon too, he has been acting slightly scummy but that's all i'm seeing

If you dont see it at this point idk if you’ve been reading the thread...

[superbowl9]

You think your scumhunting has a better probability of success LMAO???

yes

Even if this is the case, does this mean you townread Elbirn???

[superbowl9]

Agreed, but I would be fine with someone hammering this if elbirn doesn't respond for a couple days

[superbowl9]

Cmon yall
221
248

Like....this is the case. The scum that I am voting for wants you to think that the IC is also a one shot day cop. That doesn't work because I have a town role PM and no one makes a cop IC in a 9 player game, what else do you want to talk about?

"I have a town role PM"
OH my bad you must be town then (/s because we need it here)

[superbowl9]

Glad you're a pro scumhunter now that we're at L-1 Elbirn!
(Also I like the new profile pic)

I explain all my reads, unless I don't think it's to the benefit of town to do so

Okay, so after you pointed that out, I decided to look at superbowl's meta. I was curious if they usually don't explain their reads. They haven't played in a game in a while, but in their most recent towngame, I found this:

LMAO at using my

4 year old

meta

Also find it very humorous that those who wanted more shitposts and "interesting" things happening now losing their minds because they got what they asked for.

[superbowl9]

To anyone on the fence about this Elbirn wagon: just look at that reaction to pressure. I mean his ISO is basically a scum checklist.
Acts apathetic and lurks when possible? ✔
Targets one townie to take the heat of themselves? ✔
Overreaction to being wagoned? ✔
Generic "I'm town" claim? ✔

Yes, I'll admit that logical boomed me with 221. Call me stupid, if that makes you happy

Your response to this pressure, though, still makes you our best lynch option for today imo.

I can see it now: bUt SuPeRbOwL, inutile responded the SAME WAY to pressure and you townread her!!! DAE think superbowl scum for this
The way I play is when I see someone acting in a way that I think is suspicious, I don't immediately assume they're scum. Thinking about the intent behind their words, their emotions, and trying to come up with a reason that they would be acting in such a way has been a more effective strategy for me.

For example, Zulfy. If I wanted to build a case against Zulfy, I certainly could. I could say
"well Zulf's strat to select a townie from the start is clearly a scum strat, after all you could simply choose your scumbuddy as the "townie" each time you roll scum!"
"Zulfy's refusal to vote votato was clearly scummy, just trying to hide from any type of commitment early in the game!!"

Although some of you might be convinced by such a case, I don't buy that Zulfy would employ this strat as scum - it seems too on the nose. Think about it - if you were scum, would you use this? When Zulfy says "It would be like opening a can of worms I don't want to get into" in 52, it reads so casually. If I put myself in the shoes of town Zulfy and scum Zulfy, it's obvious to me that town Zulfy is much more likely to say this. It's not so much about actions themselves as the intent behind them, at least for me.

I see a frustrated scum behind Elbirn's posts. I don't see that for inutile.

[superbowl9]

[superbowl9]

if you werent IC id be voting you right now for sure.

If you didn't get what I was on about in 341, this mentality is it right here.

i dont see why you wouldnt just come out and tell us the info you have and how you got it

Actually agree with this

[superbowl9]

Also find it very humorous that those who wanted more shitposts and "interesting" things happening now losing their minds because they got what they asked for.

that's because it wasn't genuine clearly

180 isn't genuine

[superbowl9]

The way I play is when I see someone acting in a way that I think is suspicious, I don't immediately assume they're scum. Thinking about the intent behind their words, their emotions, and trying to come up with a reason that they would be acting in such a way has been a more effective strategy for me.

I see a frustrated scum behind Elbirn's posts. I don't see that for inutile.

Well this is a lie tho: You said urself it's cuz Logical said he's 1-shot X.
And if what you said was true then: I think you'd easily see how Elbirn can be frustrated when he gets at L1.

Yes, it was because of that that I first voted/encouraged the wagon. Then Elbirn reacted not well (notice how most of my scumread evidence comes after L-1), then based on the reaction Elbirn is still my highest scumread, so my vote stays. So yeah you could point and say I wagoned based on "manufactured pressure", but it was from the IC claim so don't see how that's a "lie"

I can see why someone would get frustrated at L-1, but do I see this as an "oh my god please don't lynch me you all suck because im so obviously town" or "oh my god im scum and this stupid wagon came out of nowhere, if I act pissed enough maybe they'll take me more seriously"

[superbowl9]

superbowl, were you scumread Elbirn at all when you sheeped Logic for the 1-shot cop thing? Why did you assume Logic would weirdly crumb it like that, and not just claim a guilty? Additionally, if you wanted to push Elbirn without explaining why (and possibly outing Logic as a PR), why would you make 283? Doesn't that make it obvious?

Elbrin was definitely in my scum pool before the Logic thing, but mostly because of the lurking - I would say he was a 49 in your terms. Then I saw Logic's claim and thought they just couldn't come out about it for some reason (after all why would the IC lie? Saying "I might have a 1 shot" then cryptically saying "we're lynching the wrong target, this person is scum" with no other reasoning lends itself to that conclusion, wouldn't you say?).

If Logical had said nope I'm just scumreading Elbrin and wanted you to join my wagon, I would've been off it. But before happened, Elbrin reacted imo terribly to being wagoned, so I now scumread him.

[superbowl9]

in that case could you please tell us what you have learned from decrypting logicalicaltist's posts?

Nothing, that's what I'm curious to find out. That's why I agreed with votato, idk why you would hide behind codes and such with important info. I assumed there must be some reason because otherwise you would just come out with it, but based on 337 and 338 I believe that there is now seemingly no reason, which is why I'm confused

[superbowl9]

My thinking was that IC must have some reason to obscure the information, because if not then they would just come out with it! And why would they obscure it for no reason? What advantage would that provide? Since people were not hopping on the wagon as I figured they would, I tried to get them to do so while revealing as little as possible - you can always reveal more about claims/prs if need be, but you can never take back public information.

[superbowl9]

My thinking was that IC must have some reason to obscure the information, because if not then they would just come out with it! And why would they obscure it for no reason? What advantage would that provide? Since people were not hopping on the wagon as I figured they would, I tried to get them to do so while revealing as little as possible - you can always reveal more about claims/prs if need be, but you can never take back public information.

Logic is an obvious gimmick poster though, that's the biggest reason he'd "obscure it for no reason". Can you think of any scenarios/situations where Logic would have mechanical information that Elbirn is scum but want to obscure the information?

I didn’t see 221 as a gimmick, did you? And admittedly no, I can’t, but 1. Does that mean that such a scenario is impossible? 2. I figured why question it when IC has no reason to mislead town?

[superbowl9]

Lmk if you intend to hammer please, I have some last words to get out

[superbowl9]

Lmk if you intend to hammer please, I have some last words to get out

like who your scumbuddies are? im willing to hammer i think, but im definitely not willing to hammer before hearing from logic

Yes im in our scum daychat right now deciding who to expose first

[superbowl9]

Going to bed, I'm doc

If you want to hammer me go for it - last thing I wanted to say was that im almost certain there's scum in the first 3 on my wagon, after you realize your terrible mistake start your scumhunting there pls! Otherwise I will wag my finger at you from the dead thread

[superbowl9]

Going to bed, I'm doc

If you want to hammer me go for it - last thing I wanted to say was that im almost certain there's scum in the first 3 on my wagon, after you realize your terrible mistake start your scumhunting there pls! Otherwise I will wag my finger at you from the dead thread

Sometimes it’s not such a bad idea to listen to your IC huh?
Now mafia knows who to attack to get to me.

It's sad how right you were

Although now that there is a known doc and IC, is it really so hard to imagine a scum PR for balance? Even more town PRs?

Either way, I will be dead by tomorrow, so while I still can I'll put as much out there as I can.

Can we not let Allomancer continue to lurk for another day? 9 posts with almost no content is not enough. Notice who was first on the wagon....

Elbrin would be in the same situation if not for his 8 post OMGUS rant for being wagoned, which successfully started a counter-wagon. There's GOT to be scum on there somewhere early.

If I were scum Zulfy I'd wait another 1 or 2 votes to hop on my wagon. I don't see him as scum right now. Votato feels like scumbait to me though, which is causing me to doubt this a bit.

NCM is also still scummy to me, everything seems sort of faked from them, not to mention biting on 2 scumbait wagons (bUt SuPeRbOwL, you were on the votato wagon!! I didn't want to actually lynch yet, just wanted to get the game moving a bit - then Elbrin's thing happened)

So in recap:
Elbrin probably scum
Allomancer is big lurking so anti-town
Zulfy town ATM
NCM scummy
Gypyx VI (no offense i like you T.T)
votato scumbait

[superbowl9]

We still have some time, but how will voting three separate people help us here? Especially if you're not going to try to convince others to join. Zulf, votato, and gypyx. If you

really

want to lynch one of your votes today, try convincing people? See who else has scumreads on them, lobby for a wagon? Or we can lynch Elbirn, still think we have likely scum there. What I don't want to happen is for us to keep leisurely voting whoever and then we quicklynch someone non-ideal at the end of the day. That being said, I am down for an allomancer wagon.

(On a scale of 1 to 10, how much am i a VI? )

I would put you at a 6/10 although I liked your last post a lot - either way its all love my man <3

[superbowl9]

Seems like we agree here then:
VOTE: allomancer

[superbowl9]

I've made no inaccurate accusations

This will be disproven by tomorrow

[superbowl9]

Other then the encryption, Elbirn is the bunny that took a free leap.
essentially he made an opportunist vote.
He took the easy way to a mislynch without actually trying.
It isn’t until I pressure him when he starts to pick up his game.

I will vote for whoever I want whenever I feel like it. Eat shit.

Is this who yall want running town in a LYLO situation?

[superbowl9]

I guess I can see Elbirn in a state of "you gosh darn kids are mucking up the game with your bs" but what I don't get is why he went from seemingly not caring about the game enough to lurk to caring about it a whole bunch? Wouldn't you expect that kind of apathetic town to just say "ah well, if you idiots want to lynch me, it will cost you"? Obviously there would still be some argument, but to give such an impassioned rebuttal at L-1 really contrasts with the early apathy for me.

[superbowl9]

I mean there's an activity log... objectively you had very few posts compared to everyone else. But what matters is perception - I can say that I don't need to explain any of my reads to you and I'd be right, but would that convince anyone of my points?

[superbowl9]

superbowl why are you using kiddie gloves on votato

I really have no clue what you're talking about. What's your case on votato? Literally 38 and 407. Idc if you have a particular read, but you haven't done anything to push your case on him - why would you expect me to share your read?

Not to mention

I helped move his wagon to L-1??

Pedit: there it is! I think there is a case to be made on votato, but those who are making it seem disingenuous to me. Seems like a lot of cherry-picking. I'll probably go through it in a bit to give you some fax on that

superbowl your Elbirn hate came out of absolutely nowhere

I've treated the big E with nothing but love and respect <3
If you're talking about my scumread, I explain it in 341, 364 (In direct reply to you...), 365, and 427, 5 posts ago. Want me to go over it again?

[superbowl9]

superbowl is my top scumread

then why are you on his wagon!

My claim... pretty obviously? 403? Do you just not read the thread?

[superbowl9]

Well 1 be mad at yourself for misreading me and 2 if you had worded 392 differently I probably would not have claimed

It was all going so well until big zulf hopped on my wagon

[superbowl9]

Nah you're at L-0 pretty sure

[superbowl9]

You're infuriating

I know it can be tough to read through all 450 posts

My claim... pretty obviously? 403? Do you just not read the thread?

You claiming doc doesn't mean people have to sheep you, it just means we shouldn't lynch you.

You right. It only gives him reason to believe him town. Guess you didn't read this interaction then?

We still have some time, but how will voting three separate people help us here? Especially if you're not going to try to convince others to join. Zulf, votato, and gypyx. If you

really

want to lynch one of your votes today, try convincing people? See who else has scumreads on them, lobby for a wagon? Or we can lynch Elbirn, still think we have likely scum there. What I don't want to happen is for us to keep leisurely voting whoever and then we quicklynch someone non-ideal at the end of the day. That being said, I am down for an allomancer wagon.

I could do gyp or allo. Will compromise elbirn eod

Seems like we agree here then:
VOTE: allomancer

341: a post made when you were already on the Elbirn lynch train.

Congrats, you read one of my posts! If you read the rest you would see:

superbowl, were you scumread Elbirn at all when you sheeped Logic for the 1-shot cop thing? Why did you assume Logic would weirdly crumb it like that, and not just claim a guilty? Additionally, if you wanted to push Elbirn without explaining why (and possibly outing Logic as a PR), why would you make 283? Doesn't that make it obvious?

Elbrin was definitely in my scum pool before the Logic thing, but mostly because of the lurking - I would say he was a 49 in your terms. Then I saw Logic's claim and thought they just couldn't come out about it for some reason (after all why would the IC lie? Saying "I might have a 1 shot" then cryptically saying "we're lynching the wrong target, this person is scum" with no other reasoning lends itself to that conclusion, wouldn't you say?).

If Logical had said nope I'm just scumreading Elbrin and wanted you to join my wagon, I would've been off it. But before happened, Elbrin reacted imo terribly to being wagoned, so I now scumread him.

None of this is important now anyways, but I think you may want to read the thread in future days

[superbowl9]

Votato I thought you wanted to rumble. What happened to that? Maybe tomorrow I suppose

yeah tomorrow. your posting has gotten marginally better, and i currently see it coming from confused town or just someone i have personality differences with more than scum.

I'm glad you two are coming together. Need more love in this thread - I can be smarmy sometimes but it was fun playing with yall! Hope to see ya around somewhere again

[superbowl9]

LETS GOOO

[superbowl9]

There's two possibilities: either scum is WIFOMing and killed elsewhere for my lynch today, or I'm scum and fakeclaimed doc.

Now that inutile is dead (thank you scum!!), I can say that I thought she was a PR (oops, call me stupid) ((scum might have picked up on this hence the night target)). What's been the ENTIRE case against me? My inutile read!! If someone can levy a case against me that doesn't involve inutile, I'd love to hear it .

[superbowl9]

Wait, why did you make that post on the first place if your aim was to hint she was a PR which is why you weren't pushing her? Weren't afraid that scum were gonna catch on?

Why instead of bringing up all those reasons to scumread her, and then townread anyway, just keep quiet about your PR read?

I think your issue (and all yall's issue) is that you see it as "reasons to scumread". If I push someone and they seem as though they want to hide information, you look at that and say "Aha scum!" I look at it and say "why do they want to hide information?" Go back and reread my inutile interaction. You can see the questions I asked myself - I literally wrote them!!!

1. Why care so much about being slightly scumread by 1 player that you try to justify without even hearing the reasoning?

Yes, it makes sense to do this if you're scum, but it also makes sense to do this if you are a PR! I had a town gut read on her (also from 157), but her NCM interaction just seemed off to me: as you can see in my post (173) where I clearly outline my train of thought, it didn't add up to me why a townie would be so insecure... until I thought PR! Then it all seemed to make sense to me!

You ask why I posted the way I did - LMFAO. You saw the way yall reacted *just* from me posting what I did, right? Imagine if I just stopped posting in the middle of the interaction? I'd be lynched rn. Or would you have preferred I said - "Actually yall I think I just sniffed out a pr LOL, moving on"? It makes no sense to continue pressing someone I think is a PR, so I wanted to de-escalate the interaction somehow. Just didn't think everyone would lose their shit over that one sentence - although I guess scum would be happy to do that

[superbowl9]

Never even understood the case against me for the inutile interaction either (just didn't want to bring it up):

So scum super is grilling his scumbuddy for a "fake" distancing interaction, then throws her into the townread column. Really? Why wouldn't I just craft some bs argument to make it look like her response convinced me? Or just keep her in the scumread column, and keep it open as a bus if necessary? Why needlessly attract attention? Just think about it for two seconds - if you were scum, would you do this? It makes no sense!! You can't just look at an action that you don't understand and say "whelp must be scum".

[superbowl9]

There's two possibilities: either scum is WIFOMing and killed elsewhere for my lynch today, or I'm scum and fakeclaimed doc.

Now that inutile is dead (thank you scum!!), I can say that I thought she was a PR (oops, call me stupid) ((scum might have picked up on this hence the night target)). What's been the ENTIRE case against me? My inutile read!! If someone can levy a case against me that doesn't involve inutile, I'd love to hear it .

Why didnt you protect Inutile last night then?

I protected the IC, because you don't try to screw around and metagame when you have a PR, you protect your biggest townread. If there's an IC I believe doc should ALWAYS protect them unless another PR claims without CC

The fact that this is your train of thought is very interesting though

[superbowl9]

It means you're someone who would think about trying to metagame the night phase, which is what scum just did. Not saying you're confscum, just jotting it down.

I have a lot of things to check out today, including a lowkey townread on you (don't worry more info will come - this isn't like inutile, I just need some time to poke some people and go through the thread again)

[superbowl9]

^Just to confirm because I KNOW how yall like to jump me for having nuance in my reads - I still think you're more likely scum than town at this moment, hence why I fosed you at the end of yesterday, but if a couple of things flipped around, I could also see you as just an angry old man townie (no offense lol).

[superbowl9]

It means you're someone who would think about trying to metagame the night phase, which is what scum just did.

......Ah, of course, I am scum who saw into the future and knew that you would state a belief in inutile being a power role and therefore I should shoot inutile and blame you for not protecting him.

I Have Been Vanquished

No not what I'm saying lol, I'm saying scum could have easily NKd me yesterday and then killed logical, keeping a doc around another day means you can't choose who to target N2. So to kill anyone other than me would be metagaming in the hopes they can get town to lynch me D2, instead of simply NKing PRs, which scum would usually do.

[superbowl9]

Also you ruined my up arrow pointing to my last post ToT

[superbowl9]

Exactly! So they must be metagaming pretty hard! Either inexperienced or is trying something extremely risky (To you this is WIFOM but to me it's confirmed)

[superbowl9]

Yes, that's my 2nd option in 463. It's a WIFOM, so you just have to read whether you think I'm scum or town. But like I said, everyone's been scumreading me for the inutile interaction, which, now that scum have killed her, I can fortunately explain in full detail to you!

You can counter and say "well you set up the inutile interaction so that you could NK her and come into this day with your gambit unraveling perfectly", but you could say that about every single defense I can offer you - such is the nature of WIFOM. All you can really do is evaluate the likelihood of both possibilities and come to your own conclusion.

[superbowl9]

I just want to hear what you have to say m8. Protected the IC, fine. What's so interesting about my having this question?

The fact you actually considered the dead man to be Town.
Let me ask you this.
Was the dead man your highest Town read day 1?

I didn't, and no he was not.

But if I take superbowl at his word that he is town-doctor and he thinks inutile is a power role, if I'm in his position I consider protecting that PR over the IC. Its a valid question.

Keyword *think* - obviously I was wrong, which is why no matter how much you might read one way, you ALWAYS protect confirmed town

[superbowl9]

It sure sounds like somebody's already thought through this whole scenario.




: )

Do you need to think very hard to come up with stuff like that lol? Not calling you stupid, you're just representing basic WIFOM as something I've had to ponder over for millenia.

[superbowl9]

Chill man, I don't think you're stupid lol. I just am curious as to why you think I pre-analyzed this? If you think something I said indicates I've "thought through every possibility", I don't see it, so I'm just asking to clarify what your argument is here.

[superbowl9]

Hey so I thought I was putting Allo at L1. Whoops. Oh well it hasn't even come up.
Dead inutile: Sux she seemed cool.

This is so scummy

What's been the ENTIRE case against me? My inutile read!!

Is this even a little bit true?

I'd like to hear your case? Actually I'd like to hear your case on anyone? Can I have your reads/reasoning?

[superbowl9]

Hey so I thought I was putting Allo at L1. Whoops. Oh well it hasn't even come up.
Dead inutile: Sux she seemed cool.

This is so scummy

Which bit? Both of those sentences are true

#1 neither of those things are confirmable so saying they're true means literally nothing
#2 things that are true =/= things that are towny to say
Why is it scummy? Just gut. Scum have these types of awkward post-NK posts

If you think it's scummy you could have brought it up before I did

What are you talking about???

^This is called answering questions and providing details. Can you do that sometime soon pls?

[superbowl9]

What's up bambi! I have a feeling your slot might be the evil one

[superbowl9]

Huh. Of course Kuchoki Taicho thinks I'm evil. Such is life.

Senbonzakura WILL be unleashed

[superbowl9]

Yes

[superbowl9]

Huh. Of course Kuchoki Taicho thinks I'm evil. Such is life.

Senbonzakura WILL be unleashed

I have nothing to say to the guy who literally only lived because of fan girls.

What is life without kuuderes

[superbowl9]

Superbowl: Only Elbirn voted u cuz of interacting with inutile. Allomancer did it cuz of ur meta and I did it cuz of the weird fronting/bluffing with the IC claim, which honestly was the source of the other two as well. NCM didn't really explain.

Yes Allo did it because my meta conflicted with my inutile interaction

I feel like I've explained the Elbirn thing a million times, but the wagon was at L-1, but besides what's already there, weren't you thinking about hammering that wagon??? Also it was at L-1: what say you about the others on the wagon?

Pedit: VOTE: Zulfy Disrespect will not be tolerated

[superbowl9]

thought about hammering Elbirn for a bit

Yep here u go

[superbowl9]

I'm talking about Elbrin's wagon not mine lol - that's the wagon that "sheeping the IC" comes from

[superbowl9]

Ummmmmmm exactly dude. That's why I'm saying the whole IC business and starting the Elbrin wagon is not an argument against me lol, but you cited it as one

[superbowl9]

Not cause she flipped town, just that she's dead so I can explain myself. And lol why would I doubt the IC's claim? What reason did they have to lie? Obviously they did, but why would I assume the IC is false softclaiming just to push their read?

[superbowl9]

NOT comfortable with Zulfy being in quicklynch range
UNVOTE:

[superbowl9]

^still wondering this myself...

[superbowl9]

VOTE: Zulfy
Now that you're not in quickhammer territory I would still like to vote you

[superbowl9]

What made the most sense to me before the replace was Elbirn/Gypyx/votato town NCM/Zulfy scum

If Bambietta is claiming though I gotta reevaluate

[superbowl9]

Why do you Town read Elbirn exactly?
What have they done to make them stand out.
Let’s not forget on how much they started generating content when I pressured them.

I don't necessarily townread Elbirn, but if he was town those alignments made sense.

[superbowl9]

does the IC have an actual reason why elbirn should be considered scum? because i trust my own reads more than yours

Can I get reads from you?

[superbowl9]

Number 1 I still don't have reads from you - can you please post those sometime soon?

Number 2 you've been pushing votato, who I believe to be scumbait, the entire game

[superbowl9]

READS: For now. Left to right
Tier 1: Elbirn Gypyx
Tier 2: Bambi Jay Superbowl Votato

Is this scum to town?

[superbowl9]

As soon as bambi catches up I will make a sorting post

[superbowl9]

Also out of curiosity: how many people would be down for a Zulfy wagon?

[superbowl9]

Okay here is how I see the game rn:

votato:

very town imo. 438 is a towntell and they seem interested in scumhunting now that the game is picking up. Also has been the target of some weak (and imo opportunistic) attacks.

gypyx:

arguments are bad but seem well motivated - reads quite town to me. Don't think this slot is worth mislynching today - if he's scum I feel like a scumslip will happen sooner or later

Elbirn:

could go either way. If town that helps me simplify a lot, but not sure if I buy it. Have to re-check this.

Zulfy:

through POE he has become my biggest scumread - most of my likely scumteams lead back to him. I've been kind of coasting off my early townread of him, but his behavior seems erratic and a little dodgy to me. I can put out a more in-depth case (and probably will to get things moving with him) in a bit

NCM/bambi:

Saw this slot as a likely zulfy partner - the claim business and the catching up might take a while though, so I might just ignore this slot for da day. Definitely on my todo list to press though.

Scumteam pairings:

Likely:

Zulfy-Elbirn
Zulfy-NCM
Elbrin-NCM

Possibility:

Elbrin-votato
Zulfy-gypyx

Unlikely:

votato-Zulfy (have been crossed the entire game)
votato-gypyx (bus for no reason at 189? Also voted him again)
NCM-gypyx (might be lame but 13 seems weird if they're teamed)
NCM-votato (NCM put him to L-1)
Elbirn-gypyx (LMAO this would be a funny scumteam but don't see 309 or 320 if they're teamed)

[superbowl9]

Left to right less to more scummy. Also: Who am I voting folks

what about top to bottom?

I think Elbirn most town -> you most scummy, so top:bottom left:right -> town:scum

[superbowl9]

Left to right less to more scummy. Also: Who am I voting folks

what about top to bottom?

I think Elbirn most town -> you most scummy, so top:bottom left:right -> town:scum

im most scummy to you? and do we read across the top row then across the bottom row?

Nah in zulfy's list you're the most scummy - i just posted my reads
And yes I think it's top row is like town tier and bottom row is scum tier

[superbowl9]

@gypyx I have that as likely because it seems highly possible and I kinda-scumread both of them (shaky on both though).

and yeah the arguments might not be the best but it's a lot of gut - I don't think NCM wouldve unnecessarily put that pressure on votato, also I townread votato and their interactions don't read esp. scummy to me.

[superbowl9]

Lol no I townread you dude
Everything in 603 and 606 applies to zulfy's list

[superbowl9]

Actually

How many PRs do yall think would be in a game this size?

I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to setups, but doc + ic + other town pr would necessitate some scum buff no? Anything over 3 PRs seems unbalanced to me. Is it possible there's a 3-person scumteam tho?

[superbowl9]

Agreed

[superbowl9]

Ouch. I know that feel Elb. Hope it gets better.

Also confirmed something a bit ago, but luckily I kinda solved the issue.

Super, did you get something last night or nah? My slot tried to send you something, and if you got it I'll know your town.

Nope, didn't get anything

[superbowl9]

Yep, didn't get anything. Although if you're also a PR, I wouldn't be surprised if mafia had a roleblocker

[superbowl9]

So if Elbirn got the item, there must be some fuckery going on right?

Either way doesn't this mean Zulfy is scum or someone is lying? Elbirn + Zulfy + votato are the only unclaimed ones left. At this point I think gypyx claim was pro-town, there's not enough slots even to kill all these PRs.

I do agree with you votato that scum roleblocker wouldn't make sense, since they wouldve targeted me. Honestly I'm fine if you lynch me today, it will confirm me doctor, then yall can figure out what's up with the FV stuff and should be able to catch sum day 3+4. That might be our best way to go honestly, because is we ML today scum can just leave me alive another day for an easy win.

Before we get rid of anyone though, I think we should figure out wtf is going on

[superbowl9]

Votato's scum

I was gonna ignore this because I thought it would be funny if everyone ignored you for putting no effort into the game, but if you have an argument to make can you please make it

[superbowl9]

I'm down to self-lynch because I think it's the most pro-town thing to do today now that we know we have other PRs (unless bambi/gypyx are fakeclaiming, which I highly doubt). As soon as we hear from Elbirn about the fruit (and hopefully Zulfy with his argument) then I will self-vote.

That will leave us with 2 confirmed/claimed town + maybe Elbirn with the fruit (unless he's got some crazy scumrole). Thus it's either votato/zulf (good job bussing) or Elbirn + Zulf.

[superbowl9]

It would be zulfy bussing

[superbowl9]

So you gave it to elbirn??

[superbowl9]

FMPOV it’s easily you and zulfy. If we lynch you, me, and zulfy next 3 days then town will win unless someone is faking PR

[superbowl9]

So the setup is 3x VT, IC, Loyal FV, Doc, Ascetic, and 2x Goon maybe with some sort of roleblock?

[superbowl9]

Care to elaborate?

[superbowl9]

Did you give the fruit to Elbrin and were reaction testing or attempt to give it to me and it got redirected?

[superbowl9]

because elbirn gave it away so early im inclined to believe this isnt a scum gambit. therefore bambi and elbirn are both clear. logical is obviously clear. FMPOV that leaves superbowl gypyx and zulfy. zulfy and superbowl are the obvious solve here.

Even if your scum, I'm happy you catch up on the info I give quickly.

Basically yeah, I knew when Elbirn was asking questions about other possible PRs along with his instant response to me asking Super, that he got it.

Hm. Is ascetic +townev or -townev?

Negative because as scum he claims that so I can't even target him. He literally just makes it so I'm not allowed to check him.

exactly. an ascetic townie is disutility to town because it cant be cleared and cant be doc'ed. so its a free kill for scum, but also is unconfirmable and looks like scum, so scum can play it either way. do we have any other claimed PRs? at this point i actually think a mass-claim would be good.

Lol dude we already have a mass claim
If you believe everyone who has claimed, we have 5 confirmed town. Bambi/Elbirn back each other so unless they're the scumteam their claim is very believable, so either some of me/gypyx are lying or you and Zulfy are scum.

[superbowl9]

One, I didn't even get to choose who got it since I replaced in, but I got the mod to confirm who Non sent it too. Two, I did the reaction test with you and was gonna do it with one other guy but Elb gave it away.

Okay good looks. What's your read on the gamestate?

[superbowl9]

Lol there are no more PRs dude. We have a lock win as town if we lynch you or Zulfy today FMPOV. From others' pov, if we lynch me/you/zulfy today, the only person to figure out is gypyx.

[superbowl9]

Why gypyx over Zulfy today Elbirn?

[superbowl9]

UNVOTE:

[superbowl9]

It’s true that gypyx probably should have claimed early but I also 100% believe he may have just not known that that was the optimal strat

[superbowl9]

I buy this claim - I don't think gypyx would have the know-how + the will to pull of that type of a psuedo-gambit.

It's the man's 3rd game - would you have come up with an ascetic claim in a couple of hours after a FV started reaction testing in your 3rd game post newbies? Why not just claim VT lol

[superbowl9]

Also makes balancing sense - take default newbie and add an IC, you need to counterbalance so cop -> ascetic + FV

[superbowl9]

How would you know he did? Honestly bro your confusing me. If your saying your macho just say it bro.

Lol welcome to this game

[superbowl9]

Hmmm, just thought about something, @superbowl / @votato

What do you think are the odds of Bambi / Elbrin being the scumteam who tries to make a play?

0% imo and if they are we're screwed anyways lol

[superbowl9]

Bambi/Elbirn would you lynch Zulfy today?

[superbowl9]

I just don't see gypyx claiming PR if he's scum. If we hit scum today, I believe town win. If we lynch outside Zulfy/votato/me and miss then I am much less confident about our chances. For shits and giggles how do you sort those (us?) 3 and what's your confidence

[superbowl9]

Do they make sense as partners though? I haven't read Zulfy too much tbh besides him insulting anime and not liking how instant the lynch formed on him.

You're not missing much

Although you might find 45 interesting

[superbowl9]

VOTE: zulfy
I would like to get this wagon moving because he can take a while to respond

[superbowl9]

I think we have enough info to determine our lynch pool, i mean for you it's me/gypyx/zulf pool - how much more do you need it narrowed down?

[superbowl9]

This game just keeps getting crazier lmao

[superbowl9]

Who’d you track elbrin?

[superbowl9]

Oof. Good playing with you gypyx hope to see you again soon my man

[superbowl9]

So you theorize:
Goon
Scum FV

Doc
Macho IC
Ascetic
Tracker
3xVT

Or is someone else lying?

[superbowl9]

Also PSA we have 2 days to deadline

[superbowl9]

Why can’t we just go for the lynch that always benefits us (Zulfy)
Then if Elbirn is real he tracks someone in his SR’s.

100% agreed

[superbowl9]

My question is Elbirn why didn't you track me last night?? I'm either doc or scum so you have between a 50-100% chance of getting a helpful result depending how much belief you put into my claim

[superbowl9]

Just saying it is quite convenient you tracked inutile

[superbowl9]

*conveniently sub-optimal

[superbowl9]

Also like....imagine you're actually doctor, you doc the IC, and scum shoots said IC with a strongman or logic is macho or something. now I have a false positive. That sucks.

True

[superbowl9]

That literally makes me go back to my theory that scum knew the IC was ascetic when you keep saying shit like that Byakuya-Chan. I'm never voting the guy who actually got my fruit.

Unless scum can track a guy who's action fails on someone there's no reason for me to doubt him.

Yes if Elbrin's scum you are as well. I believe that Elbrin using his PR on inutile is like 10x more likely than yall both pulling this type of scum gambit. Just putting the question out there, don't want to waste my time thinking about alignments I don't need to

[superbowl9]

So it's Zulfy today and then pending any major happenings we're choosing from Gypyx/votato tomorrow? (Ig you can throw in bambi if you really believe she could be scum FV)

[superbowl9]

Pop tf off town

Nah you’re big E

[superbowl9]

Bambi you’re actually loyal right? That wasnt part of the reaction test

[superbowl9]

If I say who I'm tracking it's pointless

I will merely do my best

ok, you dont have to say who you are tracking, but you do have to track the fruit vendor. it confirms the fruit vendor's claim and the person the fruit vendor targets (which should be either me or superbowl maybe?)

Bruh anti town to post this

[superbowl9]

If I say who I'm tracking it's pointless

I will merely do my best

ok, you dont have to say who you are tracking, but you do have to track the fruit vendor. it confirms the fruit vendor's claim and the person the fruit vendor targets (which should be either me or superbowl maybe?)

Bruh anti town to post this

says the scum trying to keep the town PRs from working together to maximize their efficacy.

Doesn't work if the scum know what's happening - gotta trust us

[superbowl9]

If I say who I'm tracking it's pointless

I will merely do my best

ok, you dont have to say who you are tracking, but you do have to track the fruit vendor. it confirms the fruit vendor's claim and the person the fruit vendor targets (which should be either me or superbowl maybe?)

Bruh anti town to post this

says the scum trying to keep the town PRs from working together to maximize their efficacy.

Doesn't work if the scum know what's happening - gotta trust us

i dont trust you though. and its not likely that scum can do much about it beyond killing someone, and theyd be killing a PR anyway.

Lol scum can figure out who the best person to NK is if we set a public strategy. By keeping it private we make them guess what the best thing to do will be.

[superbowl9]

Ggz, fun playing with yall!

[superbowl9]

Oh so it was Zulf + NCM! Nice

[superbowl9]

You did fine zulfy <3 our buddy didnt last as long as I hoped it could tho

[superbowl9]

I think you succeeded

[superbowl9]

Apparently not we livin