Micro 942: Blood on the Clocktower - Game Over

[skitter30]

you wanna link me a scumgame you're proud of?

[skitter30]

you wanna link me a scumgame you're proud of?

actually, more specifically:
- a scumgame you're proud of in general
- your best scumgame since you came back (if you have any scumgames since you've come back)

[skitter30]

do you want the basic setup or the extremely mechanically intricate setup?

both, i guess, + best scumgame post hiatus (if any exist)

[skitter30]

can't promise i'll read the varsoon game
(if i thought a50 was town i'd ask him for the cliffnotes since he was apparently in it) ...

but i'll take a look at the other two

[skitter30]

a 72 p neighborhood ....
yeah that's probalby more reading that i'm willing to sign up for but i'll see if i can get anything useful from like postgame or something like taht

[skitter30]

based off the large normal you're just town here, i think
were there other scumgames since you returned, or just the one?

[skitter30]

but a lot more strongly from the sincerity with which she believed we were in auto and was freely up to lynch herself.

yes.
i don't think there's living scum outside of a50 so i think that this whole convo is functionally moot

[skitter30]

yep, just checking (i've had things like scum only selectively share one that they thought would paint them in a townie light, so just needed to check)

[skitter30]

also i thought that the large was from march and i just checked again and it only started in may so like
so this game was largely concurrent with that one
and your play here and your play there are miles different (like there you do the stilted/awkward/idk how to post or interact with things thing, which is not at all how i'd describe your play here)

[skitter30]

I feel like it's harassment to allow someone to prompt a prod on me. I've been reading and feel no need to respond when both Auro and Skitter are taking pot shots at me in the thread, and Skitter is the one harassing me via mod. Not cool.

Ok, i apologize

[skitter30]

*hug and make up*

i didn't mean to harass you, sorry, i just thought you weren't reading along cuz you didn't respond to me mentioning you and it had been like a week so i asked for a prod

[skitter30]

i hope so

[skitter30]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh fuck

A50 was still scum, irregardless of being demon
Imma going to look through his iso tom and see if i can figure out wjo his partner is

[skitter30]

ok but if ame was town that means that you'd need to be demon

[skitter30]

i'm assuming you're not arguing that you're demon tho

[skitter30]

Like, either there's something I am misunderstanding or something others are misunderstanding. I thought Treestumped = Dead, and TOWN WINS if there is no Demon alive!

If minion is Scarlet Woman and there are >4 people alive, she becomes the Demon.

True, nut you don't assume there is a Scarlet Woman in play out of the blue. We are assuming Poisoner because of it's effect on the Virgin. I would also say that Spy would have nominated Auro (but I don't know what the Grimoire is, so maybe not??). In short, neither Town nor Scum should assume Scarlet Woman is in play unless there is reason to do so.

posts like these are def interesting if you assume that a50 was minion

[skitter30]

Skitter gets BoP'd for the A50 execute yesterday

He's still scum and elements doesnt really make sense with him

[skitter30]

All I know is if you two are BOTH scum...then what? You two can't get me executed today. So. Uhm

A50 is scum
At this point i know it because if he were town he would have been calling me scum for misreading him ...
I think there's only a living demon

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?p=11884743&user_select%5B%5D=33694#p11884743 so this is where Ame says we're in auto. Their logic is that insomnia/Elbirn/Firebringer are all clear, and A50 is clear of being demon. So demon is in Nahdia/Auro/Ame.

i really think that this is +town for ame :/
i'm feeling kinda stuck cuz i think all 3 of you are townie

mechanically there's a very low chance of elbirn being demon, right?

[skitter30]

i mean by that logic if he was faking he could have just claimed empath knowing, say, {me/drixx} was undertaker
like using something that was alraedy known to not trip himself up

i think that elbirn is probably town and i feel best about taking him out

ame was really pure there but this game from you feels super different than that concurrent game you linked me

[skitter30]

at this point there's no way that the demon is already dead, right?

[skitter30]

has anybody played iwth ame before?
specifically does anybody know if ame has a big scumrange? because i kinda think she's clear on play ...

[skitter30]

it actually looks like she has a broader scumrange than i thought ...

[skitter30]

elbirn's play belies taht he was committed to the {empath in ame/insomnia} thing fairly early tho

[skitter30]

it feels like we're looking at this wrong because one of the underpinning assumptions is wrong

@a50 do u think i should vote elements today?

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=83305
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82812 <- has p decent tone in this one
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=83003

ame scumgames ^

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Request PT with Blatant Scum

Reason?

Take a leap of faith.

Request PT with Blatant Scum

Reason?

Take a leap of faith.

If you make a hood of 3 players, I will accept.

Neat.

Rescind PT offer to Blatant Scum

Request PT with Blatant Scum and Raya36

Literally

Just put Auro at threshold.

Because if I'm not the drunk, a factor that will be determined by my PT with blatantscum and raya, I find it extraordinarily unlikely that Auro is the drunk, or poisoned, or that they actually just happened to roll the exact role that they planned an entire strategy for before the game even began and then somehow it didn't trigger

@INSOMNIA:

Hi, you and I and BlatantScum need to have a PT. It is a necessity for the game to move forward. Please. Here I'll ask again.

Requesting PT with Insomnia and BlatantScum

Retract previous PT requests

Request PT with Blatant Scum and Firebringer

Pls stop ignoring me

note the insistence on getting this pt ( i don't love it given that the two people he's trying to talk to are my demon picks) but he's consistent about it and following through and it's obvious it's soemthing he cares about
also see 344

town!elbirn ^

[skitter30]

will yall get mad if i nominate elements rn?

yes, and i was wondering if you'd ask that once i indicated i was leaning towawrds ame/elements ...

[skitter30]

yes

[skitter30]

i wanna look at ame's towngames too and i havne't done taht yet and i need to decide if a50/ame makes sense

[skitter30]

i feel like this game doesn't make sense
all of the pieces don't really fit together
and none of the solutions taht i'm mulling over really makes everything 'click' in a way that is satisfactory

[skitter30]

idk. maybe it's just you

[skitter30]

eh i was hoping for a more defensive-y response that would look scummy
i don't know what the answer is

[skitter30]

bleh maybe it's just elements. idk :/

[skitter30]

Someone explain to me how Ame spewed town. I see nothing from Ame that couldn't come from scum!Ame. This is important because that is the slot which started as BS who refused to claim outsider/not outsider and then replaced out when we started talking about how scummy that was.

well mostly that her tone was super 'pure' and she wanted to lynch through a pool that included herself

[skitter30]

ahhhhhhhhhh i might just vote elements

[skitter30]

And demon/minion will obviously both vote me to tie it up, at the very least.

Ah!
So if elements is town dont demon/minion just vote him here?

[skitter30]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sorry elements if this is wrong

HURT: elements

[skitter30]

i'm really not into flipless either, imo

[skitter30]

Elements is behaving decidedly less townie than either elbirn or nahdia in this lylo imo

[skitter30]

I am getting slightly weirded out by auro voting elements tho

[skitter30]

On balance, weighing the different reasons to townread all three of them, i realized i townread elements' slot the least

- elbirn mechanically is unlikely + his play from early on as washerwoman was townie and i think it's unlikely he's lying about his role

So down to elements and nahdia
And after reading nahdia's most recent scumgame that was at least in part concurrent to this game, i think on balance they're sufficiently out od thr range displayed there and that their scumgame would not have improved/changed so drastically in a matter of days

So elements by default

Given the lack of flips at this point i'm not sure i will gain more information that will enable me to make a better decision, so i'm just picking the option that i feel the least nad about and commiting to it

[skitter30]

*least bad

[skitter30]

yeah idk
i'm not sure how else to make a better decision but i think i should at least make one

elbirn i think has just been transparently townie throughout the game and their tone today is really good
and nahdia i feel like is actively trying to get the best outcome in this lylo

whereas elements is just kinda absent, not being proactive, and lolvoted himself and vanished so like

[skitter30]

like i don't know if this is the right decision but given the information i have i feel like it's the best one
and if it's wrong ... sorry :/ and somebody snowed me p hard.

[skitter30]

Mechanically speaking Minion!Ame isn't really plausible right?

i'm not sure
what would that entail?

[skitter30]

i don't think my reads are *soooooooooo* bad that both scum are in the group of 3 people i'm independantly townreading
(i.e. if it was a different lylo i would say that i think that all 3 of them are town)

[skitter30]

well i at least feel like my decision has been made

[skitter30]

Well at this point elements is probably scum and he's already voting so
I would have perferred another vote on elements but alas

[skitter30]

I mean i think that just the fact that elements isn't posting is scum indicative here

[skitter30]

Right. So. I voted myself to myself to save dead votes which worked. Only the minions vote was used. The unvote was also so we would need less dead votes to lynch Nahdia. You may say "Oh but elements is only saying that was the plan because of what drixx said" and you would be wrong. If I said I was going to unvote then Auro would probably have left his vote there. Saying I'm voting to save dead votes and then unvoting without warning owuld probably be seen as equally scummy when it's not. Dead saving their votes gives us a better chance to lynch the Demon as there will be enough to over-ride the current standings. In an ideal world there would have been 3 votes on me consisting of me, nahdia, elbirn as we get multiple votes but with a dead demon they will vote no matter what.
Nahdia's anger at Auro for not voting me is scum indicative because it only now takes 4 votes for them to lose over the previous 5. Town wouldn't see abstaining as a bad move because it leaves options open and options are good for town. Nahdia's frustration is at the self vote and unvote making it that much easier for town to win.

i don't get it

[skitter30]

yeah
it's overly convoluted and i'm not sure i understand what he's arguing the town benefit to be

[skitter30]

in my mind- my vote on her prevents Drixx.Insomnia from voting her (I know Elbrin won't vote her anyway and skitter is now voteless).

Because they wouldnt want to be overtly scummy by forcing a tie?

[skitter30]

drixx u maybe should have voted elements before then ...

[skitter30]

hey guys like my new avi?

yes it's p cool !

[skitter30]

Try not to get sucked into recency bias because of my evidently sub optimal play.

I mean, i think we should be calling it 'scummy' play, but ok

[skitter30]

A50 given that you were asking my opinion: i don't want you to be voting nahdia

[skitter30]

like i'm kinda at the point where i feel that both elbirn and nahdia like at least ~tried~ this {new term for last day of game} but i don't think that elements has, and i don't think he played it in a pro-town fashion at all

[skitter30]

Unfortunately that doesn't make scum town and town scum

ok but it's a lot easier for me to ascribe scum motivation to his behavior than townie motivation ...

[skitter30]

and what's elements doing again?

[skitter30]

Lol, I was totally off base. Sorry Skit+Nahdia!

Indeed ...

[skitter30]

All PTs should be open now, links in first post.
And here is my mod PT/monologue. You can see some of my anxieties with the setup here. I definitely could have used someone who knew the game to discuss things with, making this game work for forum was pretty hard.
Overall I think it went decently enough, game went to lylo with both sides still having a chance.
A50 wants me to run another one but my overall sense is that most of you are not looking for another run, so I think it would struggle to fill. Do let me know if you're interested in more BOTC.
Thanks for playing everyone, I hope you enjoyed it!

Thanks xtoxm, i think you did a great job modding this!

[skitter30]

1. What is Elements' partner doing? A50 doesn't even seem to care much, he left that vote as a favor to me and then retracted it anyway. Absolutely no panic in this thread apart from me.
2. Skitter voted Elements inspite of their townread with a "ahhhhhhhh sorry :/", conveniently forgot that a Minion execution was a waste last day, and that Nahdia+A50 makes much more mechanical sense than Elements today
3. Skitter jumped on Elements' weird play (which I can't defend easily) pretty aggressively, and is way too comfortable with her vote
4. Why do you guys suppose the Undertaker was killed N1 over the Monk? Imp was more afraid of Drixx's "Chef or drunk" result when Skitter had 0 neighboring pairs as a result, over a Monk who could negate any NK? (Hint: if Skitter was Minion, Drixx's result would've made it much harder for the scumteam)
5. Nahdia nominated Skitter D1, BUT she soft defended Skitter during that nomination phase pretty hard. She panicked, and also requested a private thread just with Skitter. Fishy, no?
6. Nahdia requested a PT with Skitter only again the next day. Outside of LyLo these were the only 2-person requests outside the IC.
7. I was creating self-associations with Nahdia today and both Drixx and Elbirn got , Skitter didn't even react to it
8. Skitter apparently did some meta study, but comes out with nothing convincing? The best she's got is something along the lines of Nahdia's play being different from other scumgames, and Ame's scumrange being broader than she thought. These do not feel like legitimate conclusions, rather emptyposts just to fit more comfortably with her agenda.

If u want me to address these things i can, but i'm not sure you want to rehash it again

[skitter30]

skitter was there too 9and once she SR'd me there's no changing her mind. Not even with a Cop clear in a Normal game)

Indeed !

[skitter30]

Xtoxm and Skitter ... would you two consider doing me a favor? I'm designing a series of themed games based upon Worm. I'm thinking 3 games to do it justice. I could use some design and flavor help and generally just more eyes on it.

PM'd!

[skitter30]

I've heard it's an amazing rationalist web novel: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/
Will start reading it soon!

It's super super super long, be warned.

And the writing starts off a bit meh but read through, say, arc8 before you decide to give it up

Also, idk if it's rationalist. Maybe rationalist-adjacent. As drixx said, it was linked in a hpmor author's note way back when (that's how i learned of it) so i think it has an overlapping fanbase

[skitter30]

But it's a great story and has one of the most real (? raw?) depictions of superheros i've ever seen.

And the author is extremely prolific ... one of thess days i'll actually finish one of his other webnovels

[skitter30]

ame! you were fantastic!