Micro 957 | Trust Fall | Fall Over

[Dannflor]

My initial thoughts are that I feel like Hayasaka formed a town read on Tipsy a little too quickly, and the wording of it in post #14 makes me feel squicky. It feels pockety in the way I would imagine scum would like to set someone up to leave the game with them. On the other hand, I don't mind the rest of her posts, but those posts are largely setup spec and I'm not putting a lot of weight on that yet.

Hayasaka could you explain a little more explicitly why post #8 gave you such a strong gut town read on Tipsy? I'm also curious what Chef's thoughts are about that slot.

Clover, did you find anything notable reading the first couple pages or do you find it mostly NAI?

Also, I vaguely like Something_Smart but I'm not sure that is because he's actually done anything significantly towny yet. I've just enjoyed his posts

[Dannflor]

I mean either, but Tipsy was the one I had most interest in

[Dannflor]

The only thing that I really raised my eyes at was the way Something Smart was talking about the trust fall but besides that not much

That's interesting because his spec felt most natural to me, was there a specific post or was it just a general tone thing

[Dannflor]

I explained in an earlier post to smart, that sums up my read on their opening. 41
Did you assess my posts while skipping that one, why did you choose to not react to that post?

I guess I was wondering if there was more to your read than that. Tipsy is obviously a persona that seems intent on acting um... tipsy? In my opinion, regardless of alignment they would have likely opened the game talking about hip firing. And I question how "stupid pushable" what they did is when they can just brush it off as being part of the tipsy persona—they have a built-in out essentially.

[Dannflor]

But if he sat well with you then I'll just sit back and assume I'm wrong for now

I don't have a super strong read on him one way or another so I wouldn't base your opinion on mine.

[Dannflor]

I really am enjoying everyone come into the thread and state how I shouldn't town read Tipsy. You guys are so lame, leave me and my page 1 hard town read alone.

I never said you shouldn't! I just wanted to figure out why you were

[Dannflor]

I think I actually like Clover Ebi most for town at the moment

[Dannflor]

Hyasaka may actually be town.

What exactly changed your mind?

[Dannflor]

You said 145 seemed too cocky to be scum, was there anything else that contributed?

[Dannflor]

SS, do you have any thoughts about Haysaka versus the world? Or if any of these trust fall offers are alignment indicative?

[Dannflor]

How do people feel about Dann?

luke warm

[Dannflor]

chef conftown, adorable conftown

this seems quick even if you hadn't realized the proposal was fake

What if they were scum together?

[Dannflor]

I'd rather leave with Dann but last time I checked he scum read me?

I've never actually said this!

Regardless, I'm not quite ready to leave.

[Dannflor]

oh hello nice I should've read the most recent page

[Dannflor]

Tipsy why are you so low on S_S

[Dannflor]

What happened to your strong Raven read? Or was that purely to get a reaction

[Dannflor]

Players who give a meta town read on a player normally comes from town

I'm just going to say that I have meta with Raven and they give meta reads regardless of alignment

[Dannflor]

Raven, have you developed a read on Tipsy yet?

[Dannflor]

Do you really expect me to heavily meta case you early in every game?

For the most part, I haven’t said anything about your slot because no one has asked me. I’ve been intentionally playing my cards somewhat close to my chest this game (which is why I find it odd I’ve garnered so many town reads based off me just asking questions? I’m guessing scum have me in their townish pile just becuase it’s easier than finding a reason to scum read me for now and that’s what everyone else is doing, but I digress). Additionally, I don’t want to just reveal your account without permission. Meta is based on credibility and I don’t have any credibility if I don’t reveal who you are. Regardless, I’ve been still in the process of sorting out my thoughts on you, which is why I didn’t put my read immediately when Adorable did. I just wanted to put out there that based on what I have experienced, you handing out meta town reads isn’t exactly the best element to read you off of.

I’ll make my next post a more transparent reads list and hopefully that can help you read me better!

[Dannflor]

Before I finish putting together my reads, Raven, I have question. Do you think I should be town reading you by now?

By extent, do you think most of the game should?

[Dannflor]

are you claiming to be suspicious of Tipsy’s tr on you?

Yes I scum read Tipsy

I didn't get to my wall reads post today so I'll just cut to the chase with that

Specifically I found Tipsy's interactions with you to be fake. It didn't look like Tipsy was actually trying to solve you, but look like they were trying to solve you.

Initially, I was thinking it went both ways and a Tipsy/Raven team was possible, with your guys' little spat being theatre to distance and give an excuse for not pairing. But... I think I'm town leaning you now? I wasn't town reading your early game or your interactions with Tipsy. But I've found your engagement with me on this page really earnest and it feels like you're actually curious about my alignment. So, I'm not sure I'm a big fan of that initial solve anymore.

My problem is I have the group of S_S/NK15/Adorable that's kinda just shades of null for me right now. I can sort of see reasons to town read S_S/Adorable, which might make it as simple as Tipsy/NK15 as mafia? But I fear that's too easy. I'm just not super confident on S_S or Adorable yet. I liked S_S's point about Adorable's hot take on the mafia team earlier in the thread being towny, but other than that I haven't gotten any strong vibes from either of them.

Also, I have a really bad track record reading S_S which is a little scary.

[Dannflor]

That was a little brain vomity which I apologize for

If you have any questions about my reads or clarification on stuff I'll answer them

[Dannflor]

Also, I have a really bad track record reading S_S which is a little scary.

Is this factoring into your read on me at all, then?

Yeah, it is. I think I might be town reading you here if I hadn't had a really strong town read on you in the past that turned out to be wrong.

[Dannflor]

Tipsy, I find it a little weird that your immediate response to me stating a scum read on you is to try and leave the game?

[Dannflor]

Yeah, I understand that. I'm trying not to let fear/paranoia control my reads.

If I'm right about Tipsy (big assumption and I'm trying not to run too far with the pre-flip associatives yet) I do think you are very likely town.

[Dannflor]

I'm just stuck on NK15. Adorable too, to an extent. I've seen a lot of players call them towny, but aside from the one garbage towny take I'm not getting too much from that slot.

[Dannflor]

Tipsy, I find it a little weird that your immediate response to me stating a scum read on you is to try and leave the game?

why would that be weird

town all has to leave the game too. wanting to leave the game isnt alignment based.

I just thought as town you might have some response or want to engage me on my read. Of course town has to leave too but if my reads were wack presumably you'd want to give a course correction before you left the game?

[Dannflor]

Also, I don't understand your progression from "raven's content is hella shallow" to "hm she's maybe town" to "I want to leave with her"

[Dannflor]

which i mean, maybe, but do ppl honestly believe u and me are partnered? probably not (:

literally just said this was my primary theory but go off

[Dannflor]

I'm not liking the way how SS has been mentioning me on being scum with no reasoning.

Eh? I said you were towny.

Raven asked Tipsy who does she think is scum and then you pop in and said, "I know, I'm an expert at this. I think Adorbs is the one I feel the best about in the uncleared players."

doesn't "feel best about" mean town

[Dannflor]

I thought SS specifically ruling out teams based on fake TFs was towny.

[Dannflor]

which i mean, maybe, but do ppl honestly believe u and me are partnered? probably not (:

literally just said this was my primary theory but go off

tbf, it's not my *primary* theory anymore, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for you guys to be teamed, outside of the fact that I find Raven independently towny

[Dannflor]

she did the same thing to Hayasaka on day 1 and shouldn't you have been leaning town on her after her interaction with Hayasaka when it looked like she was trying to figure out Hayasaka's alignment just like on what she did to you?

I didn't think it looked like she was genuinely trying to figure out Hayasaka's alignment is the short answer

[Dannflor]

lol okay maybe they are not a team

[Dannflor]

if you are town, you are wrong

[Dannflor]

I think assuming no one takes one of NK15s trusts, then this is his last ditch effort to win the game by setting up a 1v1 between me and him to win the game.

if that's true then we're basically in lylo and you guys have to decide which one of us is mafia

or someone like Adorable is just mafia and we auto lose

[Dannflor]

I fucking knew Raven wasn't dropping her town tells but I got cold feet

I'm going to be very sad if the game ends like this and you're town NK15, for someone who talks about not being able to get reads easily that was a boneheaded move

[Dannflor]

I think it's probably much more likely NK15 is mafia pulling this ploy as a last ditch win strategy.

I highly doubt someone as apparently methodical and strategical as him gambles like that. Not to mention, his trust fall on Tipsy seems opportunistic given that we know Tipsy was town but also pretty eager to leave the game.

NK15 also expressed a single scum read (until a certain point), and that was on Raven, who mutually scum read NK15. Pretty basic, but probably the ideal setup for mafia in this game.

Yes, I am very bad at townreading and haven`t found any other townread than Porkens. I did not trust Raven because they had so much fluff. Right now I trust them more and don`t trust YOU at all.

NK15 also says they are scum reading Tipsy like 50 posts before going "hm why not" and trusting Tipsy. Doesn't really line up with his entrance in looking for a town read to leave with. Like he literally goes from not trusting Tipsy at all to asking Tipsy to leave with him in his next post.

[Dannflor]

Uh Raven's progression on NK15 is kinda weird too. She scum reads him the whole game but uses a lot of wishy washy, "I guess he's the only one acting scummy," "I'm kinda suspicious of him" type language. Then suddenly, in #522, Raven goes hard on making sure everyone knows NK15 is her top scum read. Of course, she was already out of the game so... WIFOM, but I think when considered with NK15's actions it makes more sense that they are partners. Also, I respect Raven as a player but their playstyle tends to be very straightforward/not very subtle in that they don't play mind games, so based off meta I'm more likely to consider that as just plain distancing.

[Dannflor]

Anyway, my opinion is obviously warped by perspective here and hopefully the game doesn't end because then I'd look stupid. But I'm pretty sure that's what is going on here. Up to y'all

[Dannflor]

Yes, that's what I've been saying. If everyone shows up and the game doesn't end then mafia can only be between me and NK15.

[Dannflor]

I'm happy you are not mafia tho

[Dannflor]

ah

That is sad

[Dannflor]

kind of an anticlimactic end

[Dannflor]

yeah me too, fun player list too!

gg wp

[Dannflor]

In hindsight I maybe could've tried to go for a TF with Chef or someone to scrub NK15's TFs

unsure if that would've worked though and I didn't really suspect SS much anyway