Micro 956 | 2of4 | Dinosaur Comics™ - GAME OVER!

[ClarkBar]

VOTE: Umlaut

Ahh, should have done that earlier.

[ClarkBar]

Nothing relevant. Itching a fresh scratch.

[ClarkBar]

That wasn’t terribly random of me. I’ll be more serious about things now.

[ClarkBar]

I just want to put a little disclaimer out there: I have only completed one game of mafia. So... I'm happy to be here but I'm picking up a more irreverent vibe than in newbie games. If I'm doing it wrong please let me know!

[ClarkBar]

Because last game you were obvtown, and this game you're not obvtown, and it makes me wonder if you're town at all.

That's probably unfair but I'm thinking it anyway.

I really have no idea why I was so town-read last game. I'll tell you this: I am a little unsure of myself here. Way more so than last game where I figured I'd ask questions and try to suss things out. I don't know how to proceed in a game like this where everyone knows each other and seem to have a more fun/relaxed approach. I do feel I'm out of my depth here a little.

But, if you're asking if I'm town, the answer is yes. Unequivocally. By that token, our last game together I had no good read on you and you were scum. This game isn't too different. Are you going to ask irrelevant questions or are you going to scum-hunt this time?

[ClarkBar]

Also, if you are so unsure of me please put me at L-1 and throw my feet to the fire. Why is your vote on Alisae again? Any questions you have for me?

[ClarkBar]

You guys talk a lot in like 24 hours haha

Tbh I'm here for the dino memes and nothing else

I'm here looking for my first win and nothing else. Your apathy disturbs me. Dino memes are available anywhere and everywhere else.

But thanks for the encouraging words! Really.

[ClarkBar]

^ Any reactions you find interesting?

[ClarkBar]

I guess I can put you at L−1 if you say pretty-please but I don't see a reason to do so now, so asking irrelevant questions sounds good. What's your favorite vegetable?

Asparagus! Not only is it delicious to eat, but when I pee I get a subtle reminder that I made a healthy choice. Asparagus pee is one of my little joys in life.

Also, feel free to answer my question about your vote.

Why does the demeanor of the players stop you from proceeding?

It doesn't. I guess I just felt like a freshman at a senior party. Maybe a little intimidated. But, it's just mafia right? So I'll just treat this as a regular game. Sorry, that first page or so made me feel like I was missing something.

[ClarkBar]

I'm here, sorry I let it get to a prod state. Let me read up!

Really am sorry, it was a crazy weekend.

[ClarkBar]

Nexus what do u think of umlaut’s CM1 vote?

lazy

I'm a little torn on this vote myself. On one hand I can totally believe a new player being fooled by the double vote. There was a double vote in my last game and it did actually trick me for a second. In the other hand, I completely buy why Umlaut might think there's something forced about the way CM1 responded to it. It does have the flavor of using a fake hammer to spout obvious pro-town fluff.

@Umlaut: What about 23 bothers you? Is that post solely why you asked me my alignment in 56? I believe I had a wagon going on me, if my posting gave you a scum-read, no matter how slight, why didn't you follow-up more? Also, you voted for COA, but never followed-up on that vote with any kind of questioning or anything... I assume that COA's content since that vote satisfies you in some way? If that's the case could you explain why? Or is CM1 simply more likely to be scum in your eyes? Is there anything outside of 118 that gives you scum vibes from CM1? Has 118 retroactively made other posts by CM1 more scummy to you?

[ClarkBar]

Like it comes across as asking questions for the sake of it

So you would categorize my questions as totally irrelevant?

[ClarkBar]

Also Cult put Umlaut at L-1 and then Alisae voted Umlaut? so urm 1) shouldn't we stop talking, like isn't that a lynch?

Ali was already voting Umlaut, it's a fake vote. There's no need to stop talking until you do not need to talk.

Can't decide if CM1 really missed that or not. Fakehammers happen every damn game now and I just habitually check the VC when I see them before posting any kind of reaction.

I don't understand the rationale of caring if he missed it or not. If he did, then it's just a rookie move. If he didn't, no one is giving him town points.

You don't see the rationale? I'm becoming more and more obsessed with 118. I'm not really keen at looking at old games because I'm dubious about using a player's meta, but I might make an exception in this case. Less to look at CM1's meta and more to ascertain if it's plausible that he would not recognize a double-vote and if he really believed that if that

were

an actual hammer that town should not talk. Alisae even eludes to the nature of her double-post in 110.

CM1 is Umlaut ur buddy?

I disagree with this but I have a better answer. Would like to see things play out a bit more before I speak.

I need my hand held a little here. Why would Nexus ask that question of CM1 in the first place, why do you disagree with it, and what needs to play out? Or will I just have to be patient?

[ClarkBar]

I also feel like his whole ISO leading up to when he started playing today is just more likely to come from scum then town.

How so?

Like it comes across as asking questions for the sake of it

So you would categorize my questions as totally irrelevant?

Answer please.

Like the stance feels like its coming from scum
Everything about it feels like its coming from scum
Nothing about it feels genuine like at all

Like, thanks for being specific!

- at the start of the game, he’s newbish but also objectively weird if you compare it to his first game.

I am objectively weird, so that's a fine point. But how was I different in my first game? I asked a bunch of questions that game...

- then he says that the reason he was different was because everyone knew each other

Want me to rehash this?

- I asked him what stopped him from proceeding because I really felt like what he was saying was bullshit. Being the new person shouldn’t stop you from just playing the game normally even if everyone knows each other. The whole reason why I wrote 66 was because even if you’re a newbie, it should be really easy to just do ur thing w/o really considering if the other people at the table know each other. In general it felt like he was making up an excuse.

Apparently so. I like obviously lack your confidence. I like would not have joined this game were I not invited (albeit by a likely template invite) by Blair. The tone and pace of the game threw me off and I felt like I was doing things wrong. Also, in my first game I knew nobody. In this one I knew Umlaut, who was scum my first game and I lost that game for town by not voting for Umlaut. So, like, things were different this game than my very first.

Like, consider this, his return just feels scummy to me about everything

Because I'm like asking questions? What exactly are you asking people to consider?

His CM1 stance and his questions umlaut just don’t seem town to me.

Thats something I can respond to! What about my stance on CM1 don't you like? Like how would you even characterize my stance CM1?

Look, it's cool if you don't like me. But you placed a vote on me without really laying out anything but vague gut stuff. What do you want me to do with that?

[ClarkBar]

Okay - play this game for a second. Let's say you're right about all of this. Is your reason for voting someone now due to lying about experience in other games? Someone who already admitted that they don't play a lot of games of mafia but play a lot of LSG? Not really something I think I'd want to follow through with. It's a dumbtell that I wouldn't vote for.

The crux of my suspicion isn't really about lying. It's more that I find it unlikely that CM1 was that confused by a fake hammer that was even prefaced in 110. So it's not purely the possible lying that bugs me, it's the possibly disingenuous taking of an opportunity to be LAMIST. You and CM1 can play the newbie card all you want, I know I kinda have, but really? Given his join date and post history (which to be fair I have yet to read through) I find it hard to believe CM1 doesn't understand how things work around the end of the day (a hammer vs. the thread being locked), let alone not being able to perceive that a hammer hadn't actually come down. For as much as I wear my inexperience on my sleeve there's no way I would have bought that gambit. I didn't even fall for it in my first game, at least not for long enough to post about it.

I need my hand held a little here. Why would Nexus ask that question of CM1 in the first place, why do you disagree with it, and what needs to play out? Or will I just have to be patient?

No, patience is not necessary here. CM1 seems to mimic a lot of Umlaut's opinions. Umlaut even mentioned this in his above post. I will admit that I'm not certain of this but I would find it more reasonable that CM1 is copying rather than sheeping. The former identifies that CM1 doesn't really know what to do in this case (which is fine) rather than sheeping is knowingly doing that. I can go more into detail about this, if you want. I don't

know

if that makes him scum but I am definitely passing on a D1 lynch on that slot.

Definitely passing on the execution/cancelling (there needs to be an official replacement for the term "Lynch") on a player who, according to you, is mimicking the player you find scummy and have your vote on? Yeah, I need more detail.

[ClarkBar]

i just want your flip

Earn it.

[ClarkBar]

^ Aww. That's really nice to hear, thank you.

[ClarkBar]

---

I found CM1's previous game: Newbie 1886

• He definitely asked a lot of questions about basic things like "why should we lynch D1"
  
• He asked "Are we still allowed to talk if there's been a hammer?" and got an answer
  
• There was a quickhammer D2, but given that he had PR information pointing to the hammerer's guilt he didn't really get a chance to react naturally to it

I guess it's possible he just forgot about how twilight works in the ensuing two years but I still think 118 is awful and screams LAMIST.

---

@ClarkBar

Do you think I'm scum or are you just keeping your RVS vote on me out of inertia?

My vote on you is partly out of inertia, I haven't found a better place to put it and I liked having it on you. Why not vote CM1? I might yet, but I have no reason to think that CM1's 202 isn't sincere, and other players seem to think that your push on CM1 is weird. I am however in agreement about 118, but my agreeing with your take on it is not me giving you a TR. That said, I don't have a strong case on you being scum so...

UNVOTE: Umlaut

I need to reread and generate some questions (which will undoubtedly thrill Alisae) and those questions will likely come with a vote.

[ClarkBar]

@Sleeper, can you clarify what your read is on Umlaut beyond him being scummy? What points in 89 helped solidify that read?

[ClarkBar]

I also feel like his whole ISO leading up to when he started playing today is just more likely to come from scum then town.

How so?

Like it comes across as asking questions for the sake of it

So you would categorize my questions as totally irrelevant?

Answer please.

Answer please.

[ClarkBar]

Cmon. Please?

[ClarkBar]

Ok I guess. If my questions were merely fluff (at least to you) then I would think you would call me out on the quality of the questions, not simply that I was asking them.

[ClarkBar]

Essentially, I totally agree with the bolded points. Since I townread Hiraki, and he is suspicious of Umlaut, that helped reinforce my own feelings about Umlaut even more.

Explain your Hiraki town read to me. It must be so good that where he leads you follow?

[ClarkBar]

@CM1: You kinda had me at 202. No need to get all aggro and stuff. I don't apologize for how I look at 182 but I really don't see a follow up to it either. Which is why I never voted for you. You responded and I have no evidence that you are lying.

Your reads were hot fucking garbage that game but you were so sure of your reads that you made that game impossible to play.

Naw, that can't be right... But why so hostile?

Damn there are a lot of oldbies in this newbie setup

Right? Happy to report I'm not intimidated by that anymore. I gave you old-timers too much credit.

Well I was excited to follow-up with Sleeper and vote for him, but alas. I guess I'll do the next best thing,

VOTE: Formerfish

That'd be a mistake for a few reasons...

Such as?

That’s a bad old unvote there fella.

Is this for me? I felt pretty good about that unvote.

[ClarkBar]

Gonna be upfront here cos like I don't want people thinking I'm lurking, I'm having a bad day in terms of depression so like I'm struggling with thinking of things to say, like I have very little motivation today.

I'll try and put some thoughts out in a few hours when I'm feeling better, I'd appreciate it if nobody hammers during that time.

I've been there, more so these past few months than ever it seems. Hope things brighten up for you!

[ClarkBar]

Such as?

Wouldn't you like to know.

What are you trying to do, so low key recon for tonight's kill? You trying to figure out if you need me out of the way tonight before I'm able to do some damage?

Well you brought it up...just following up!

You voting me today as well makes perfect sense because you can have your cake and potentially eat it too.

Having my cake would be voting a slot I'm suspicious of, and eating it would be your scum-flip?

This vote seems extra suspect and seems like it's trying to hide in that coveted 3rd voting position.

Didn't realize it was coveted, but it sure is cozy!

Imma have to look extra hard at my name sake when I read later.

By your predecessor you mean?

[ClarkBar]

Umlaut, how would you characterize the wagon that's currently on you?

[ClarkBar]

Actually Hiraki has also criticized the CM1 push and that's where Sleeper got it from.

Yes, I was surprised by Sleeper and his open sheeping of Hiraki. I wanted to follow up with Sleeper about his Hiraki romance, but he bounced.

[ClarkBar]

Clark, since you're around can you try and explain the Formerfish wagon for me? All I've seen is "Sleeper is sheeping Hiraki" which isn't a big sell for me in itself; there's nothing wrong with voting based on someone else's case if you think it's a good one. (I don't really think it's a good one but apparently at least some town players do so I can't really single him out just for that part.)

I can only speak for myself, the other votes on that wagon just seem to be self-congragulatory "it's nice to be friends/we're such ace players" nonsense. But yeah, the interaction with Nexus, the strange town-read and sheeping of Hiraki resulting on a vote for you- the leading wagon at the time, and FF's hostile entrance all make me feel good about my vote. And the setup and timing of the replacement (certainly not something I would hang a case on independently) doesn't help.

[ClarkBar]

I'm not just trying to flame you Ali, I'm just having bad flashbacks to you being 100% wrong but being unable to get out of your own way.

Its fine, my early game isn't anything amazing and I play worse in large themes compared to micros.

So this is you playing well?

[ClarkBar]

I can't imagine. I feel like newbie games are my lane.

[ClarkBar]

last i saw clarkbar's vote on my slot is because..sleepersoul sheeped hiraki? and formerfish entered in a hostile way? that's not a town thought process

Yes it is. Why wouldn't it be?

[ClarkBar]

I admit I don't have the same zeal in this game that I might have demonstrated in my last one. It's tough for me to get my hooks into this one. The pace is slow, posting feels irreverent, wagons don't make a bunch of sense to me. The discourse is strange. You're not wrong though, I need to put in more of an effort here.

Alisae doesn't like when I ask questions but you don't think I do ask them. You both accuse me fluff, but I think my questions are relevant. Can you point out my filler please?

I've responded as much as I care to regarding me communicating my worry that I was out of my depth.

Sleeper was a major wagon? I need to reread why Nexus and Alisae voted the slot, but I recall it being for 500 IQ anime protagonist reasons. I think my reasoning was clear. I'm irritated that Sleeper left the moment I began questioning him. I don't know how major that wagon ever was or going to get immediately get after replacement. FF's attitude rubbed me the wrong way so I was happy to keep my vote parked there.

[ClarkBar]

i don't think it matters. my point is that it's a very ill-justified vote.

Ok, tell me how my vote is worse than Nexus's or Alisae's.

[ClarkBar]

nexus's happened early game and for reasons that i can plausibly see a veteran player scumreading the slot for. i already explained why alisae's felt believable - the reasoning feels a lot more thought out than yours does. you are also overly concerned with self-defense rather than investigating other players.

Nexus didn't like Sleeper voting Umlaut. Neither did Alisae, and neither did I. I don't think you need to be a veteran to not like somebody putting another player at E-1 (who they hadn't really mentioned before) through sheeping the read of another player. So yes, Nexus starts the wagon, but I was the only one to follow-up and engage with Sleeper regarding his reasoning and why he had such a town-read on Hiraki- who he'd had little interaction with. A factor, by the way, not brought up by Nexus or Alisae. I was also planning on talking about 183 with him as well.

I'm not overly concerned on self-defense, I'm responding to your points against me. The difference between me and the others on the Sleeper wagon is that I found more things bothersome and I actually followed up with Sleeper. I suspect you're singling me out because I'm much greener than Nexus and Alisae. I'm also not matching my meta from my first game exactly and I appreciate you trying to use that to convince Umlaut of something.

[ClarkBar]

I think my reasoning was clear.

because sleepersoul sheeped hiraki? is that the best you've got?

Explain to me what the reasons were that Nexus and Alisae voted for Sleeper? Because he sheeped Hiraki...

The sheeping, the weird town read, the replacing out when a wagon started and I started asking questions (I know that's not necessarily AI but it didn't help) the entrance of FF with his abrasive attitude (also not AI, I know, but he seemed like a player that would be very reactive to a vote/wagon and that seemed valuable) and this:

That'd be a mistake for a few reasons...

is why I voted for FF.

By the way, looking back at the progression of things I realized I voted for the slot after Sleeper replaced out, I for some reason thought I had voted before that.

[ClarkBar]

FF was in a slot I felt worth following up on. I had a tentative scum-read on Sleeper and was awaiting his answers before proceeding. When FF came in I voted the slot due to the reasons I stated. I think I was under the impression my vote had come earlier because my suspicion was piqued earlier.

[ClarkBar]

i sort of want to let him slide for today because, again, the player he replaced had some town-looking posts but i guess he'd be my secondary vote if necessary given limited time

Translated: I'm going to OMGUS vote a player I think I can steamroll for reasons that don't really add up. But! Keeping my options open for a pisskop wagon on D2 because it's nice to give a town-read on a player that's not here but still fence-sit their replacement.

[ClarkBar]

very spicy, scum

Cool. Also, deadline is paused, but I guess you know that.

[ClarkBar]

also, creativemod1 needs to get off his alisae vote, i don't agree with the case and it's not going to happen

Coaching much?

[ClarkBar]

i'm not voting me and i don't wanna vote umlaut

Is this coming from an independent town-read of Umlaut or because he's on your wagon of choice? Is what you say in 386 all you got? Weird that my vote on Umlaut hasn't factored into to your scum-read of him despite my having a long-standing vote on him.

[ClarkBar]

This isn't your first newbie game so you're aware that scum have daytalk. This can't be something you actually believe is happening.

Why not? I didn't take day-talk into account, but throwing signals in-thread happens, I'm sure.

[ClarkBar]

Here is what I see.

Sleeper's actions were 100% worthy of follow-up and votes. I should have voted first and asked questions later as opposed to the other way around. Nexus and Alisaes wagon on Sleeper is something you think is more reasoned than my own vote, which is objectively wrong. When I placed my vote I had more reasons for doing so, and another player to engage with. Nexus and Alisae did not follow up or ask any questions on that slot. I don't find them scummy for that necessarily, but to pick me out of your wagon for the reasons you stated makes no sense to me other than considering join dates. You think I'm an easy push and are sure to not rock the boat of more experienced players.

FF is weird. Everytime I have engaged your slot that player has ducked out. Not AI, sure. But I have been consistent on this wagon and engaging every player in the slot. The same cannot be said for the original members of the wagon, and yet their votes are more thought-out by your logic.

Bringing up old shit about me being unsure about myself in a game with so many experienced players that were behaving in a way that made me feel like I was missing something is easy-peasy. People came after me for it at the time and I've explained myself as best I can. Days ago. But it had traction then, so it might have traction now, right?

Also, just saying shit is forced is a trash way of not engaging, and not answering the questions I've asked you.

You are trying to take advantage of me by aping old arguments and playing with my meta of one game. Instead of answering my questions you are appealing to reasoning that I'm scum that is sourced other players. I see you.

[ClarkBar]

443 really makes me want a cigarette.

[ClarkBar]

Hop on my wagon then. What do you want me to do with that?

[ClarkBar]

You just put me at a town lean. So... figuratively identical must be what you meant...

[ClarkBar]

A lot of his takes are identical to mine.

Up to, but not including, his biggest scum-read? Which you don't even put at a null, you lean that I'm town. How does that work?

Is there anyone else you could potentially vote?

I'm not going to pretend we're in the rush that peta would have people believe we're in. That said, maybe Umlaut. But I really like where my vote is now. I've liked it for awhile and I'm finally having fun with this particular game. There's a real bone to chew.

[ClarkBar]

Irritatingly, and this is real fluff posting, I think that Peta's avatar is super charming.

[ClarkBar]

I mean we don't exactly have that much time and we should consolidate votes to get some wagons going

What would be your suggestions for that? Deadline is paused, I have a feeling Blair wouldn't throw up some weird execution deadline without giving players notice and a replacement player a chance to post.

[ClarkBar]

sorry your wagon on me didn't work out n_n

Hey, it might yet!

[ClarkBar]

E-2 I think.

[ClarkBar]

In response to CM1's reads: I strongly disagree that I'm helpful

You're always "just kinda" around, aren't you?

[ClarkBar]

In response to CM1's reads: I strongly disagree that I'm helpful

Far be it for me to point fingers at possibly manipulative self-deprecation.

[ClarkBar]

whilst I'm not fully trusting on Peta, I do trust Umlaut

I have no excuse for not seeing this earlier.

UNVOTE: Peta

VOTE: Umlaut

[ClarkBar]

I don't blame you for survival-voting me here but this attempt to act like you actually believe I'm scum all of a sudden is not making me feel better about you.

Survival voting? I'm at E-2, with no quality case backing it. I don't see a hammer for miles.

If my posts up to now haven't been clear enough than ask why. And I'm not looking for your endorsement or your town-read. Was that last bit meant as a threat?

[ClarkBar]

o no i think clarkbar might actually be scum.

What am i not seeing here?

Any kind of a compelling case. What you are seeing is heaps of opportunism.

Survival voting? I'm at E-2, with no quality case backing it.

I don't see a hammer for miles.

This didn't age well.

[ClarkBar]

VT btw.

[ClarkBar]

Hi Porkens, nice to see you again.

[ClarkBar]

The only thing I can threaten to do is vote you and I'm already doing that, so obviously not. The last bit is meant to say exactly what it seems to say, that your sudden scumread on the largest wagon as soon as you are under fire looks scummy.

It's ain't for nothing though...

whilst I'm not fully trusting on Peta, I do trust Umlaut
Umlaut: I'm getting a townie vibe from them, they seem to be helpful and I still don't quite see why so many people scum read him.

This level of a town-read out of the clear blue doesn't track for me.

Nor does this little transition...

Can you say what's bad about ClarkBar? I've been pretty meh on his slot overall but I haven't really seen anything that says scum and I recall liking a few of his posts.

Which leads here...

p-edit: you are definitely right that it is a snap townread that doesn't feel like it's earned and it's a common thin for scum to handout townreads for bad reasons

last i saw clarkbar's vote on my slot is because..sleepersoul sheeped hiraki? and formerfish entered in a hostile way? that's not a town thought process

Is it weird that reading things I already knew, but with question marks after them, is actually a fairly effective persuasion tactic?

You picked some poor logic to sheep. Now that somebody is in the game pushing for a wagon other than yours you find these past actions worthy of a vote?

[ClarkBar]

do you have anything else to say

Your case sucks. Your reasoning, and correct me if I'm wrong, is this:

last i saw clarkbar's vote on my slot is because..sleepersoul sheeped hiraki? and formerfish entered in a hostile way? that's not a town thought process

You are ignoring the fact that two other players voted for that slot for that very reason. You are ignoring the fact that I supplemented my reasoning with follow-up questioning. You are misrepresenting me as a player who posts fluff and doesn't ask questions. You are attempting to use the meta of the single game I played before this one which had a very different dynamic against me. You are trying to paint my apprehension about this game that I expressed earlier as scum-motivated, and I think that is some weak sauce.

[ClarkBar]

nah there's more to it. was giving you a chance to towntell but you haven't.

I'm relieved to see that you have further reasoning that you won't bother sharing. Looks like you won't even have to, pretty easy to get this wagon going after all. Who do you think will be the hammer?

[ClarkBar]

you're just flinging mud at the people voting you and trying to take down their reasons (b/c u feel u didn't deserve to be caught like this). not indicative of a town mindset here.

Oh? You have no problem with Umlaut's vote for me? CM1's town-read (trust!) of Umlaut doesn't ping you at all?

[ClarkBar]

do you think they are mafia together. what are you trying to say.

I'm struggling with that. Umlaut's minor push on CM1 regarding 118 could be seen as distancing, but I happen to agree with his reasons for finding it suspect.

I don't fully trust my barber let alone somebody in this game whose alignment I shouldn't know. CM1's strong town-read of Umlaut distresses me. Umlaut's reasoning for hopping on my wagon distresses me, the progression doesn't work for me. I voted Umlaut over CM1 for that reason. Are they partners? I don't know, but an Umlaut flip would go a long way to answer that.

[ClarkBar]

Who do you think will be the hammer?

I guess it'll be Nexus.

This sounds obvious, but my wagon is going to have at least one scum on it. I recommend Umlaut and CM1 are followed up on as prime candidates.

[ClarkBar]

I think I would rate my aggravation level at being the D1 execution at about a 7/10. Although, this being my first time in this position, I'll admit it's a little fun. I just feel guilty that my play has hurt town.

[ClarkBar]

Well I was half-right, even if CM1 had me second-guessing myself near the end.

Well done scum-team, and GG to all. I'm not sure if I was spared a headache by being eliminated D1, but watching from the graveyard was hard to.

And a big thank you to Blair for inviting me to this game. I had only one completed game before this one, and so it means a lot to me that she wanted me to be a part of this.

[ClarkBar]

CM1, the rise you got out of Peta was a real highlight of the game for me, thank you.

[ClarkBar]

sorry everyone

Your problems started with your push against me. After that you were lost.

[ClarkBar]

I don't know if the adorable tot (formerly the adorable worm) is poking fun at me...