Micro 959 - Greater Idea Game Over

[NDMath]

VOTE: DoubleDare
For calling ww miller is a strong role.

[NDMath]

VOTE: Glitch
These posts are definitely in his scum range.
He's arguing that he's right not that he's town -- which matters in that his scum play style is a lot of notes and based off them deciding what he 'thinks'.

VOTE: DoubleDare
For calling ww miller is a strong role.

Powerful, no. Hilarious? Yes!

We clearly have a different sense of humour.

were you a cluster of starbucks i could spare you

Glitch's quick hop onto Pooky is suspect given the way obvious rolefishing and the overdefensiveness throughout 19 because he felt like Pooky dodged his over-the-top aggressiveness.

I feel like Glitch is trying to lure Pooky into saying something that he can twist for his own benefit. Pooky is holding his own, but I don't like Glitch here at all.

I dont think Glitch would try to do that even as scum. That's a crazy plan! If glitch were scum with Pooky not on his team, he would naturally assume he's a strong PR or another scumteam. No fishing necessary.

"Either A. Thing or B. Something completely different"
I don't get why town!glitch wouldn't also reach the same conclusion you're proposing?

VOTE: Fidget though because it's more useful right now.

I'M a conspirAcy theoriSt and I can check NOt_Mafia toNight to verify his tentacled townie claim.

Pedit: What about you? DO you prefer town or scum? Everyone should probably answer this question actually.

I prefer scum primarily because I rand it less than town (naturally).
I probably wouldn't have taken it this game unless it was roleblocker/strongman/ninja/some-cool-alien-role since I tend to get hung a lot. Also wouldn't want to be sk/lone-scum.

[NDMath]

were you a cluster of starbucks i could spare you

Glitch's quick hop onto Pooky is suspect given the way obvious rolefishing and the overdefensiveness throughout 19 because he felt like Pooky dodged his over-the-top aggressiveness.

I feel like Glitch is trying to lure Pooky into saying something that he can twist for his own benefit. Pooky is holding his own, but I don't like Glitch here at all.

I dont think Glitch would try to do that even as scum. That's a crazy plan! If glitch were scum with Pooky not on his team, he would naturally assume he's a strong PR or another scumteam. No fishing necessary.

"Either A. Thing or B. Something completely different"
I don't get why town!glitch wouldn't also reach the same conclusion you're proposing?

The who what huh now? My point is that Glitch was not rolefishing there. Even if he is scum. So it's not a valid scumtell at all.

The voters immediately made me suspicious as I believe the wagon had faulty reasoning. That's why I'm interested in Star!

The paraphrase was indicating I find your reasoning for glitch to not be rolefishing to be flawed.
The question was because I interpret it as you townreading glitch for it, and if your logic is correct town!glitch also shouldn't be asking the question because there isn't a benefit if strong town pr and scumteam aren't distinguishable.
(I think you're town, but I think you defending glitch here is relying on multiple false premises.)

VOTE: GlitchHe's arguing that he's right not that he's town -- which matters in that his scum play style is a lot of notes and based off them deciding what he 'thinks'.

I don't know why'd Glitch would have any reason to argue that he's town during that exchange. This sounds good but really means little.

I think what would make more sense is if Glitch wasn't arguing that Pooky is scum, but instead saying Pooky is wrong. Glitch did both though.

I dont think Glitch would try to do that even as scum. That's a crazy plan! If glitch were scum with Pooky not on his team, he would naturally assume he's a strong PR or another scumteam. No fishing necessary.

"Either A. Thing or B. Something completely different"
I don't get why town!glitch wouldn't also reach the same conclusion you're proposing?

Still don't get what you mean here. You're arguing for Glitch being scum in this post. I'm saying that town or scum Glitch could ask the question. You point out that town Glitch would say it too..?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NDMath

Glitch saying pooky is wrong but not scummy isn't scummy because town are wrong often?
My point is more so that he's being scumread with reasons and his answers to those reasons aren't arguing he's town, just that he's right. [The post directed at me, made after I said that, excluded.]

I'm saying that your reason for either saying it is wrong, and if it was right neither would say it.
Your post comes off as townreading glitch, because it only focuses on the scum case, implw scum!glitch wouldn't do it therefore he's town.

Okay. Let's try this again. I'm getting really frustrated trying to explain this for the umpteenth time in this thread only 7 pages in, but you are clearly not understanding how it is possible to discuss a role you turned down and your thoughts on that role without bringing the role you chose into that discussion. A strong player or a player who understands the importance of not claiming a PR too early would immediately be hesitant to just be like, "OH I DIDN'T CHOOSE DOC CAUSE I'M ANOTHER PR!" NO. That's stupid. That's either a smart player who chose scum playing into the question and using the opportunity to claim a town PR, or it's a bad player who did choose a town PR and isn't thinking logically or playing smart. A smart town PR does not want to claim right now.

Pooky is either scum playing a caniving, smart game, or a town PR playing poorly. My statement in 35 was not intended as condescending but as an explanation and demonstration of how it is possible to speak about the role you discarded without revealing anything about the role you chose. This is a concept that a lot of people seem to think is impossible, so I wanted to specifically point out how it is. It is not meant as condescending.

You say that I can't get upset when the conversation goes exactly to the place I said I wanted the conversation NOT TO GO. Do you understand how much sense that doesn't make?

This is nonsense right? I'm not the only one who understands that you can't discuss discards in isolation without talking about the other role?

Like there's literally no reason you would pick vanilla townie over PR - so obv if you discarded a PR, you must be a PR. For him to say I'm playing badly by saying I'm a PR when I discarded a PR is just crazy talk right?

Yeah. It'll take a lot for me to stop scumreading glitch.

[NDMath]

Fidget, you said that your mind immediately went to suspecting Pooky for discarding doctor but there was 0 mention of starbuck discarding bg until I brought it up. My concern is that either you or glitch decided to use this as an attack on town!Pooky but left scumbuddy starbuck out of it even though the situation was nearly identical.

I don't think it's close to identical at all. I see a big difference in enjoyment for the user between doctor and bodyguard.

Like, I'm a bodyguard and I have no idea who I want to save. If I save someone, hooray, but I'm out of the game which sucks - also, what if I just took a bullet for scum being shot by other scum? Saving someone as a doc would feel so much more rewarding.
I'll probably guard Ares because I townread her.

Ok so bg is subjectively worse than doctor but in the end they're both town protective roles and they deserved the same amount of attention that Fidget and Glitch were giving doc.

Doctor is objectively much stronger than a bg since a bg can only ever successfully protect one person one time, and dies for it.

I meant for it to come off as, scum!Glitch would not rolefish. There is 0 need to rolefish when scum Glitch would already know Pooky is a strong PR / multiball scum. So people scumreading Glitch for rolefishing are just plain wrong.

hard disagree on the no need for scum to role-fish

I think we just have a very different way of approaching this. Maybe I'm wrong. I just think it's a spectacularly poor idea to rolefish as scum in a role madness game where you already know the person is equal to or better than doctor. I get trying to use the discards, too, that's what they're there for.

fwiw i don’t think that maf!glitch chooses this hill to die upon because it would be the dumbest hill possible. i tr the pointing finger that moves around to everyone if only because it seems like it doesn’t know what it’s doing wrt pointing out maf perfectly. agendaless if you will even if it’s a bit jumpy

Maybe. What do you think of Glitch pretty blatantly doing what you said seems towny for him just a bit after you said this? (183)

tbf it is probably a lot easier to say that about n_m from his perspective who has not posted a lot here. regardless i don't see it as him trying to ~respond to me and what i said wrt his vote on me and i'm still content to give him a little townread for now.

honestly my voting pool right now is the glitch wagon. lmao. i just think that it's a super easy to push that people are making right now and i haven't see a concise explanation as to like... why... lol... i don't understand how any non-town!glitch would think it is a good idea to just go about as he does as i've said before.

looking at the vc right now i think i would like to vote ndmath. i would also like to vote ndmath because i don't see how it would take a lot for them to stop sring glitch at this point. pooky i can understand because they were involved in the 1v1 at the start of the game but i am also townreading them both.

VOTE: ndmath

acceptable alternatives right now for me are: n_m, maybe fidget.

I was entirely agreeing with pooky's side on that 1v1.
Glitch thinks it makes more sense for town to do than it does as in he did it to act town and I think it was a perspective slip.
His longer paragraph towards me didn't influence my opinion of his alignment at all is another reason it felt appropriate to say a lot.

also fwiw my list of most ~powerful discarded town roles goes like this

doctor > tracker > bodyguard > gladiator > townie > miller

if i had to guess who's maf off of discards alone: n_m, fidget, maybe glitch, maybe ndmath, maaaaybe hectic

i think that gladiator is an understandable discard as town though because you have to have a lot of self-confidence in your reads to go toe to toe w someone.

vt as a throwaway is a bit weird to me but that's personal preference and idk if there was a more fun maf role offered here. that's tinfoil land though. i'm really bad at math and also my eyes have glazed over everyone's preferred roles/alignments this game so i'm gonna skim through and note that down at some point probably.

i'm sorry to fidget and n_m for those discards and i hope the other cards were better. lol. also i hope that glitch got a more interesting one too.

fyi if I had chosen gladiator I could choose two not-me people and then become conf town (due to only a town gladiator existing) assuming both my targets survived the night.
So it's probably stronger than you're putting it.

[NDMath]

I'm glad I got the DoubleDare stuff out, but realistically Not Mafia still has the greatest chance of flipping scum. Do you agree, Hectic?

I'll extend that to everyone. What are your reads on Not Mafia?

Pretty likely scum but glad the gamestate hasn't just been stalling on him.

When I poked at NDMath, I didn't get a lot from his response to be honest. I think if Glitch is town, that makes NDMath scum. I lean vice versa as well.

This is a weird read. There can be multiple scum factions in this game.

Also, how dare you suggest you think I would pick a town role. I love scum with a passion and would instapick it in a game like this.

The way it's phrased is just saying that they think me/glitch aren't v/v.
Though you might have been interpreting what they meant rather than said?

You know.. it's funny the game got put to evens during signups.

I am a dayvig, and I can shoot without affecting how many eliminations we have.

I am very likely going to shoot Glitch tomorrow so do not worry about him. I think his flip will be particularly telling. I want you all to choose your second-favorite new wagon, it doesn't have to be NDMath but he's my preferred I think.

VOTE: NDMath

Do not hammer anyone until after I've made my shot. I'll do it around when the most prominent wagon reaches L-1 or L-2. I will be online for most of tomorrow.

Shouldn't glitch's flip be affecting your read on me?

VOTE: Starbuck
I want to see hectic's case/quotes.

Also cops should go on someone who isn't gonna die tonight rather than fidget.

[NDMath]

Those are are some scummy reactions.

Agree with this.
Just because you wouldn't take that shot doesn't make it a bad shot.
I also believe it confirms fidget town because a mafia dayvig has multiple better (and possible) targets than N_M considering he would eat a bullet/elimination at some point no matter what.

VOTE: Glitch

Hectic/Starbuck interaction is definitely interesting. I'm favoring hectic since I agree that starbuck said a contradiction.

[NDMath]

why did you discard bg?

Because Wild Card was my other option.

76/134 pure town roles after removing discards.

Glitch saying pooky is wrong but not scummy isn't scummy because town are wrong often?
My point is more so that he's being scumread with reasons and his answers to those reasons aren't arguing he's town, just that he's right. [The post directed at me, made after I said that, excluded.]

How would someone argue that they themselves were town?

If people are giving you reasons why you're scummy you would argue either why those aren't scummy or why those reasons don't apply.

[NDMath]

Votecount 1.9:

NDMath (3)

- Glitch, Ydrasse, Fidget

Glitch (2)

- NDMath, PookyTheMagicalBear

Starbuck (2)

- Raya36, Hectic

Raya36 (1)

- DoubleDare

Not voting (1)

- Starbuck

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is at 9pm BST on the 6th August. (expired on 2020-08-06 21:00:00).

VOTE: Starbuck
I'm still good with this.
Hopefully enough people are active to get a hang.

[NDMath]

Well there’s 4 hours left and I don’t want to flip starbuck.

VOTE: ndmath

Hardclaiming lone mason.

Following our the mason cards for reference:
Mason
Mason
Mason
Mason
Mason Doctor

Mason Lover

Werewolf Mason
Survivor Mason

[NDMath]

VOTE: Glitch
I'll for sure be back at least once before deadline.


I chose mason over gladiator because there's a lot of ways for gladiator to go wrong whereas mason can't.

[NDMath]

Wouldn't Gladiator maker confirm you as town after using the ability, though?

Yes if successful, but if I'm roleblocked or either of the two players I target die I have absolutely nothing.

Why did you have zero reaction to the other mason claims?

I townread hectic but saying so would easily allow a scum!hectic to fake claim mason if I die.
Saying disbelief of the mason claim would make people wonder if I'm a mason which is unideal.

[NDMath]

Why did you townread hectic?

What would be unidieal about players wondering if you were mason?

I liked the tone and what he chose to post about throughout most of his early posts.

It leads closer to me claiming / scum figuring it out which is bad since mason is one of the most confirmable roles.

Why did you think hectic would be fake claiming? How did it make you feel? What went through your mind?

Not sure I understand this question.
I knew hectic was fakeclaimining because he wasn't a mason. It made me feel a bit annoyed (specifically him calling for seers) and very conscious of what I said about him.

If it's supposed to be future tense, I saw it as a possibility in that it's one of the most confirmable roles, it would likely become evident at endgame to him that I was a lone mason, people could easily believe him considering he was talking about being a mason earlier. It went through my mind to ignore the mason claims since I probably wouldn't die if I don't slip that I'm a mason which avoids most of the problem.

[NDMath]

This is good.

what did you think his motivation for fakeclaiming was?

As fidget said he had "in'd as mason", and if people temporarily loosely-believe him it benefits him regardless of alignment.


Pretty sure the execute is always in Ydrasse/Raya today.
I would be shocked if Hectic didn't roleblock starbuck.

[NDMath]

There goes my biggest town read. And I guess Starbuck is probably town based on being king? Seems like a weird role for scum to have

There's a 1-shot kingmaker (a town only role) who made starbuck king.

[NDMath]

these wagons suck

I'm confused as to what you would consider better wagons than Glitch/Starbuck at that point in time?

[NDMath]

I don't think Glitch rolefishes for PRs if he doesn't have a partner because if he's a solo werewolf he should be playing more for survival.

I was leaning towards solo because of his lack of roleclaim, since I think there's more pressure to last an extra cycle when you have a teammate.


To me it looked like he didn't think he was rolefishing, but that's the immediate reaction is for town, so he was caught out on the perspective slip of thinking what he was doing was a town mindset.

[NDMath]

these wagons suck

I'm confused as to what you would consider better wagons than Glitch/Starbuck at that point in time?

i am just a dummy who thought that glitch dug in their heels over that entire role thing. you may clown me as see fit.

i'm fine with either raya or ndmath i suppose. pooky, too?

basically looking at the eod wagon right now those are the only three i can feasibly flipping as non-town right now. pooky since that vote was kinda there from beginning of day and i don't put too much weight onto it being a gamesolving vote honestly.

If you could make your answer to the question more straightforward that would be appreciated.

[NDMath]

NDMath I think is high likelihood town for the mason claim, but if he's a werewolf mason he can get away with it. His recap of how he felt about the NM/Hectic mason thing was pretty good

If I'm teamed with Glitch day 1 plays out much differently.

[NDMath]

NDMath I think is high likelihood town for the mason claim, but if he's a werewolf mason he can get away with it. His recap of how he felt about the NM/Hectic mason thing was pretty good

If I'm teamed with Glitch day 1 plays out much differently.

Could you go into detail?

Bussing doesn't seem like something one does in multiball I guess? Especially when neither has actual abilities.
It's wifom but I would have made him roleclaim something when fidget intented to dayvig him.

At eod after I claimed I could have easily stayed on starbuck instead of moving to glitch and starbuck probably gets eliminated instead.

[NDMath]

From my perspective there are two possibilities:

A. Starbuck drew ninja werewolf from her wildcard.
B. VOTE: Ydrasse

We mechanically have to be in a 3:1 mylo but DD's confirmed town so we might as well hang today.

[NDMath]

NDMath I think is high likelihood town for the mason claim, but if he's a werewolf mason he can get away with it. His recap of how he felt about the NM/Hectic mason thing was pretty good

If I'm teamed with Glitch day 1 plays out much differently.

Could you go into detail?

Bussing doesn't seem like something one does in multiball I guess? Especially when neither has actual abilities.
It's wifom but I would have made him roleclaim something when fidget intented to dayvig him.

At eod after I claimed I could have easily stayed on starbuck instead of moving to glitch and starbuck probably gets eliminated instead.

What do you mean “when neither has any special abilities?”

I said 'actual abilities' because mason does not help survive the night / make a kill go through.

Actually UNVOTE: Ydrasse
Since you can track me, either clearing starbuck or shouting "ninja".

[NDMath]

because pooky was a mafia-immune serial killer, we're looking for a ww now, yeah? and given that ninja-ww exists... well. yeah.

Forgot about this. Technically could still be a serial killer or stretch it to an alien but we probably just win against an alien.

I am a vanilla mason.

Spoiler: Starbuck Scum Roles

Auto:
Ninja Werewolf

Risky:

Spoiler: Ydrasse Scum Roles

Auto:
Werewolf Roleblocker
Wereparrot*

Risky:
Underdog
Werewolf
Werewolf
Werewolf
Alpha Werewolf
Werewolf One-shot Bulletproof
Werewolf Cop
Werewolf Watcher
Werewolf FBI Agent
Ninja Werewolf
Werewolf One-shot PGO
Werewolf Supersaint
Werewolf Godfather
Werewolf Gravedigger
Serial Killer (Two-shot Bulletproof)
Serial Killer (Immune to Werewolf kills)
Serial Killer (Immune to Alien kills)

Ydrasse can't be alien because they'd need to mishang both starbuck + me, which definitely doesn't fit their claim.

@Starbuck Ydrasse specifically cannot be a mafia tracker due to pooky's death.


Currently I'm leaning towards starbuck being scum because of the starbuck/raya interaction yesterday and ydrasse saying starbuck didn't go anywhere is a very weird move for scum.

[NDMath]

If I was scum, why would I kill the guy pushing me the hardest? That's dumb and a rookie move.

Obviously, someone set me up.

Do you plan to take a stand before deadline or just remain indifferent?

[NDMath]

Tracking starbuck a second time makes sense from a town perspective.

[NDMath]

Tracking starbuck a second time makes sense from a town perspective.

So what’s is your vote doing?

Planning to vote starbuck but had been wanting to give her another chance to argue something.
Her points in 561/564 are weak but she said she was gonna review which hasn't happened yet.

VOTE: starbuck

I don’t think starbuck is WW with glitch.

I didn't see much to support this when I checked, while accounting for her being a strong pr and glitch being vanilla?

[NDMath]

I don’t follow. Where do you see SB and Glitch pairing evidence in the thread?

They obviously weren't coordinated. What I'm saying is I don't see anything which makes it unlikely for them to be partners, there wasn't really an opportunity to move the hang outside of the two of them and I'm not sold that starbuck's reaction to the glitch/pooky interaction means they're not buddies.

Actually UNVOTE: Ydrasse
Since you can track me, either clearing starbuck or shouting "ninja".

What does this mean math?

I was racing through possibilities at that moment, but if we no-hang, you die, and Ydrasse tracks me, Starbuck is either cleared or ydrasse is claiming that there is a ninja.
The problem with it is scum could just no kill.

From my perspective there are two possibilities:

A. Starbuck drew ninja werewolf from her wildcard.
B. VOTE: Ydrasse

We mechanically have to be in a 3:1 mylo but DD's confirmed town so we might as well hang today.

So you believe she drew wildcard?

I'm starting to question it now.

[NDMath]

So this is bussing?

I guess it doesn't really look like it but it bothers me that this is starbuck's defense

If I was scum, why would I kill the guy pushing me the hardest? That's dumb and a rookie move.

Obviously, someone set me up.

Rather than her saying something about that.