Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

[the worst]

i dont see how any town player doesnt feel even the littlest bit of doubt

like i have tremendous doubt about my solve i dont get how you are so confident in yours

i'm projecting more confidence than i have and even then i know that my voice is cracking

like
i think there's a reality where ss has pocketed me here
there's a reality where i'm Flat Out Wrong and it's like, raven/ss or something
there's a reality where datisi has suddenly become very very self aware of his meta and how to outplay it


but i also don't feel very incentivised to consider these realities heavily, when you're really clumsily trying to drive a miselim on me and constantly shading & shooting down everything i say?

no i'm trying to lynch SS not you

which again strikes me as agenda-driven considering you directly think i am ss' partner

[the worst]

after the MFD i think expecting me to eat a bullet unless scum want me to eat a bullet is pretty disingenuous :/

if we flip ss today and he's scum i'll be looking at {you,raven} as a final poe yes.
the fact you're already trying to set me up as a ss partner before he's flipped but also refuse to push me or actually explain why i'm scum (vs. shading & shutting me down) once again feels disingenuous.

[the worst]

the fact you came into this phase knowing what you wanted to push does not make me feel any less confident that you're driving an agenda

[the worst]

i think i've gotten about as much as i can from this engagement, we're kinda going in circles atp

i... see what you're getting at, but it's incorrect. exactly how incorrect i'm not sure. but i think i need to talk to other people who aren't like, us.

[the worst]

GROOOAAAANNN

/size]

[the worst]

you get the idea

[the worst]

dkko made some comment about how pushing them wasn't going to go well and i thought it was a tpr soft. i tried to find it but i literally hate reading their iso so fucking much.

i threw around a few other options but felt protecting the early tpr soft was best.

[the worst]

same tbh

pedit:

dkko made some comment about how pushing them wasn't going to go well and i thought it was a tpr soft. i tried to find it but i literally hate reading their iso so fucking much.

i threw around a few other options but felt protecting the early tpr soft was best.

do you think it makes sense as BG to protect someone who's a VT?

sure in the right situation
i think it makes sense for a bg to no-protect in the right situation
on n1 in a game with a widely townread player who has actively softed tpr, i don't see myself choosing a literally publicly vanilla-ised player over them.

[the worst]

so wait if you think he softed tpr why would you be ok with SS claiming VT?

i think i kicked myself enough for the choice on d2 dude i'm not sure what else i can give you here.
it's pretty hard to attack someone because their pred generically softed and then they claimed vt.

[the worst]

sigh
i'm going to go dig up my thingy

[the worst]

Spoiler:

@ work atm i'll Do More Words later: i'm a bodyguard neighbour.

why weren't you on lilith ... ?

the confirmed vanilla?

it literally did not occur to me that she would be killed n1 here

SS.

i like
would never have shot lilith there

SS.

you thought ss was more likely to do than lilith ???

yes

like dkko was both towny and softed tpr very very early in the game
SS is semi-caught up but hasn't laid down confident reads and is a stronger lategame player

i seriously contemplated bging you for a minute (then decided Not to for obvious reasons)
i considered bging pooky for a minute
i considered bging datisi for a minute

straight up i "not killed n1" binned lilith on instinct.

[the worst]

actually I don't think it's a scum role because it's pretty explicitly -ev and -agency. it would be a mafia goon who is immediately publicly vanilla copped. the role itself also has some really damn cool mechanics but like. literally there is no way to adapt them across to this game.

I kinda just think miccromask reads pure anyway but like. Micc is a good moderator. schadd is a good reviewer. unless town is pretty low power I'm not sure a -ev/badly designed scum role makes it in?

Tw you're unfortunately hitting the same tells pooky is in that section:/

i have literally zero regrets starting this dialogue.

[the worst]

Look at 461 in the context of scum having the mfd ability and town not knowing the game has the wacky mechanics

Weird convo for scum to be having with each other, no?

edited post tags for max laziness

this is a good pickup imo

[the worst]

Look at 461 in the context of scum having the mfd ability and town not knowing the game has the wacky mechanics

Weird convo for scum to be having with each other, no?

i have no clue how is that indicative of anything but my brain is on the verge of shutting down soni'll try again tomorrow

pedit: oh cool tw sees it too ok something's there i guess idk.

i think it's hard for scum!dkko to write that to scum!pooky without some kind of lump in their throat if that makes sense

[the worst]

again i don't feel remotely bad for being good at setups and moonlogicing there.

gn dats

[the worst]

as much as agreeing with pooky causes me physical pain i agree that isn't a particularly hard conclusion to reach mechanically

[the worst]

IT BUUURRRRNNNNNSSSSS

[the worst]

i can't save you from your objectionable win condition my dear bear

[the worst]

i'm torn between wishing i was scum, and not wanting the stress of being scum in xylo in this plist.

[the worst]

i'm pretty sure i'm just FINALLY PUT OUT OF MY MISERY after a pooky scumflip
but fwiw i agree 461 is unlikely partnery

[the worst]

I'm masons with datisi. Like I'm not actually a mason with datisi? but low-key I am.

Given ur respective later claims, this is interesting

HAHAHA i forgot about this
that is wild

[the worst]

fwiw i'll defs read everything you post

i just feel like we're at an impasse

[the worst]

i'm always paranoid/wary of a strongman in setups with a bodyguard but that's a really stupid anti-synergy in 9p.
i'd then be systematically paranoid of a rb, which is an interesting synergy but easily scum-sided.
the mark mechanic is.... really interesting, and i'm actually lowkey indifferent as to whether there's a meaningful balancing diff between {bg, bomb, fn, names townies} vs. {bg, fn, names townies}.

probably the existence of another TPR / potential for clear by virtue of just being a TPR is more damaging than the self-protective aspect

[the worst]

assuming we're both town there's a reasonable chance /one/ of us fucks with scum actions but a v low chance they can't intuit the MFD is there for a reason and avoid fucking both of themselves.

at rand i think bomb is less likely to exist than bg but i'm... conspicuously biased
i don't think there's a massive ev difference no? i guess the setup where we're both town is a lot swingier?

[the worst]

i really really really don't feel like them doing a pointless spreadsheet is AI

[the worst]

just had like a reminisce to SUPP2017 mafia

scum!worst formatting people's rankings for no reason

scum!worst formatting holistic rankings so that scum could anticipate role interactions

scum!punreader spends an absolute tonne of time calculating rankings to understand how their role can interact with the list

large theme is pretty explicitly a different situation but like... as punreader would say

effort =/= alignment

and i really don't think it's distinctly scum indicative here but it's certainly not a towntell

[the worst]

oh absolutely yeah; tells are tells but putting a bunch of effort into something that could benefit either alignment is explicitly not ai

pedit: yes we are. it's both relevant and a fun thought exercise :c

[the worst]

first instinct would be raven/ss

[the worst]

i'm gonna be level w ya pooky i haven't put a lot of thought into that version of reality yet

[the worst]

i'm not a p=0 kinda duck

it's pretty low tho

[the worst]

i'm Exhausted

[the worst]

are you trying to convince me you're town and ... i'm scum?

[the worst]

i'm not really sure what your solve is if we're both town

this olive branch feels.. spiky

[the worst]

.... is that not literally you, pooky?

pedit: ya +1 happy scumday

[the worst]

*rubs eyes*

[the worst]

I feel more high off the fumes of this game

morningduck on point

[the worst]

meanwhile you're literally using bugspray's contributions to sort raven...

[the worst]

I feel more high off the fumes of this game

morningduck on point

10 mins ago duck on point

[the worst]

both bugs/dkko are nonbinary and both prefer they/them

[the worst]

tbqh i agree with #4456

[the worst]

in that case how is SS scummy?

[the worst]

mooorning

[the worst]

I'm not in a mood to read 9 pages if it's just circular again
did I miss anything?

[the worst]

I'm not in a mood to read 9 pages if it's just circular again
did I miss anything?

out of tw/ss/dats

2 of you are scum

at this point I think SS is lock-scum but I'm not sure who the town player between Datisi/TW is

so if you're town you should re-read and try to come to your senses.

If you're scum then uh good job you're probly gonna win.

this is like
objectively horse shit

[the worst]

[the worst]

bugs tryhards like 5 things a year and none of them are mafia

[the worst]

if I had two bullets rn I'd shoot Pooky twice while howling

[the worst]

If I'm alive tomorrow I'm flash voting raven.

[the worst]

if we are being deepwolfed I think we're being deepwolfed by Datisi and I really don't think datisi is deepwolfing us.

[the worst]

tfw datisi and I make noncommittal deepwolf comments about each other in sync smh

[the worst]

I still feel like Pooky is trying to antispew raven here.

[the worst]

just restating: If I am alive or marked in f4 I will flashvote Raven

[the worst]

discuss

I thought it was obvious since like page 3? What is their to discuss? That our cult recruit shot on skitter failed?

[the worst]

VOTE: Pooky

[the worst]

UNVOTE:
no what's up?

[the worst]

yeah I thought it was strange as soon as my post loaded. call it a xylo impulse; I'm rusty.

[the worst]

Lylo is literally suffering and then you either win or lose
it's like, a metaphor for life

[the worst]

yeah I thought it was strange as soon as my post loaded. call it a xylo impulse; I'm rusty.

???

my brain went "people want to talk, unvote" and then after I hit submit I remembered we have 6 people alive.

[the worst]

all I feel is disappointment

[the worst]

I literally don't know whether to grab both of you by the shoulders and yell or just wait until you work thru this yourselves

[the worst]

It's fine; I don't feel particularly inclined to yell and scream before coffee anyway

[the worst]

At an intangible level it scumsides by creating false legitimacy in literally anything they fakeclaim, at an ev level it's not massively different

[the worst]

I have Things to talk about postgame but I think they corrode the integrity of the game so

[the worst]

tw i am still like skeptical

atp I think I'd be disappointed if either of us wasn't sceptical of the other outside of literal conftown status

[the worst]

I bought a folding reusable coffee cup this morning and it is my new favourite thing.

VOTE: Pooky

[the worst]

it would be quite funny if the objective of the design was "you bore me, peasants. design better things."

[the worst]

I'm pretty sure this is right; hopefully I'll see you in the dead thread soon but if not I'll be trying to channel you tmrw

[the worst]

:{
do you wanna see my coffee cup?

[the worst]

UNVOTE:

[the worst]

sigh

[the worst]

the sudden l-1 gave me quickhammer panic
my Gut is add odds with this game

[the worst]

... it's not ss/raven is it

[the worst]

it's, like, not

[the worst]

actually
VOTE: Pooky

dats can you please post your fav colour or something

[the worst]

teal is a very nice colour.
@pooky what's good.

[the worst]

ok he's lolcatting a weight just lifted off my shoulders

[the worst]

update: i finished my cup of tea and i feel at peace

[the worst]

thinking about this game is distracting me from work
i'm like
worried raven will appear and lolhammer
but not really sure if i think ss/raven is remotely more likely than pooky/raven

[the worst]

oh shit

that

is how numbers work???

[the worst]

this game worries me generally #worrysquad

[the worst]

i'm more anxious than i expected to be...

pedit: yeah

[the worst]

do you want me to let you sort through this or is the "grab & shake by the shoulders" strategy actually preferred

[the worst]

i wish i was there.
even smiling makes my face ache.

[the worst]

SCUMSLIP >:{

pedit: o

[the worst]

abridging because i am at work:

i am under absolutely no obligation to be here if i'm scum
i'm also not really under any obligation to be here as town because my strongest scumread is being mis-elim'd but if this game is eating at the back of my brain you're going to get paranoia duck anyway

literally i'm nervous if i'm wrong on pooky it's ss/raven and like i don't think ss' post was actually a brazen attempt to quickhammer while literally everyone except raven was here but i still have this kind of faint lump in my throat.

i might be faintly more comfortable with a raven elim today but i still think there's a 99.9999% chance i'd just eliminate pooky if i was still alive in f4 anyway

we're like 190 pages into a game and if i'm scum i've been set to endgame for a fair while now. i'm not going to go into AtEsplosion mode because this game has already had enough shit and i'm trying to be a more zen player. but i don't think you getting paranoid of me making comments which are explicitly against my scum m.o. is helpful. i am not scum.

[the worst]

actually if i was scum with pooky it would make sense for me to be here.
but like
if you think i'm scum with pooky i think we should talk more about that

[the worst]

Subject: Micro 950: Lovers Mafia

wow drew probably the worst town I've ever seen play this game. Raya really deserved a better love.

vote Pooky

let's get it done

what the fuck

pedit: i know you're not trying to be unhelpful; i don't think any townie in this endgame isn't kinda low-to-medium-key paranoid in some way or another. that's kind of my knee-jerk reaction to your paranoia which i'd normally try to swallow.

[the worst]

i need to work and not attempt to meta pooky

bbl

[the worst]

i feel like Contractually Obligated to mention that i don't think we're likely to see yomicc 2: mfd with a friendly neighbour.

at a setup design level, the mark ability existing very strongly points to at least one of pooky & myself being town. 2v7 + fn + vanillaized townie feels... simultaneously somewhat scumsided, and overwhelmingly disappointing to be town in

our action plan would also be like, fairly confusing
- we would have both been in a bad spot going out of d1; pooky would have had to decide to blow a lot of clout mis-elimming aldus. at eod1 we were still mutually heavily scumreading each other.
- our d2 would have been me making possibly the most absurdly counterintuitive fakeclaim Of All Time and then being incorrectly townbinned and then... aldus begging to be mis-elimmed over dsj to set me up to endgame despite me not capitalising on the opportunity to bus pooky
- we have made the decision to enter f6 with a town
--- including you, who i really don't think i'd trust recently-returning-me to actually finesse in xylo
--- including datisi who i doubt i can get away with incorrectly reading and who i would have either encouraged pooky to, or not stopped pooky from, really shittily trying to establish as scum only to turn around and hammertest datisi myself
- our d3 plan towards each other would also be to like.. softbus without actually capitalising on anything. like pooky has been in a weak position in the gamestate, i think if i was scum with him i'd be in a position where taking a hard stance either way is substantially more effective than slowly eating all of my fingernails while he makes an ass of himself
- where i, as scum, would be trying to find an excuse to end up in f3-f4 while trying to set up a miselim in {town!raven, town!ss}... if my read trajectory here was fake you're also operating on the assumption i think the optimal gameplan here is to try and set up a miselim on town!raven. that sounds like a fucking bad time.


mechanically this is a real ugly setup if pooks and i are scum

at a dayplay level i.. just really don't think a scumteam of {pooky,tw} comes up with a gameplan which is unnecessarily over the top ballsy and involves a combination of every single one of {claiming every non-confirmable tpr in the game, charging into xylo vs. conftown!skitter, trying to establish datisi for a miselim, probably banking on a raven miselim on d4}

like i'd just
rather not

[the worst]

Moderated by Micc
Reviewed by schadd_

i'm not going to pretend that i can accurately mod meta the fusion of the devious minds of micc & schadd_ but i'm pretty sure they know not to pass a setup which is like, bad

[the worst]

can we Not

[the worst]

if you flip town i'll believe you were town.

pedit: oh
valid

[the worst]

i'll respond to this postgame as well

[the worst]

:c
hugs all 'round.

[the worst]

it took me a moment to realise that apology probably wasn't directed at me

[the worst]

something something username joke something

[the worst]

Can someone more empathetic than me who isn't Pooky/raven please check in

[the worst]

sigh

[the worst]

:/

I'll talk about things post-game.

[the worst]

whatever dude

[the worst]

i'm gonna let you in on a secret

Spoiler:

ss is one of my fav scummers
we are friends

[the worst]

you're like

shading positive interactions between two people who like each other
because they're positive interactions
and then not engaging with any version of reality other than "these people are scum together" despite those posts not being in any way partner indicative?

[the worst]

no i am not going to stop posting because you're stroppy that i'm around to refute this bullshit
this is like literally a social game

[the worst]

which is a massive benefit of forum mafia! we can both respond in realtime, AND people can read your case in isolation!

[the worst]

i'm not going to apologise for interjecting when you're horrifically misrepresenting things?

pedit: you know what this is a waste of both of our time
see you postgame or whatever

[the worst]

i am far too lazy for that but i understand where you're coming from. i'm not sorry for the way i conduct myself but i'm sorry for any part of this exchange which is like, a sincere playstyle clash.

[the worst]

How much value is there in reading the stuff I missed today

[the worst]

How much value is there in reading the stuff I missed today

look at my big mood on the previous page

the big mood is the best post by a mile

[the worst]

How much value is there in reading the stuff I missed today

idk
convince me that ur a townie duck

I can town case myself a bit later if you want. I'd like to wake up first

[the worst]

I am currently returning and solemnly swore to try and actually have fun playing mafia. If I was scum here I would have made the shonkiest fakeclaim of all time out of the blue while spending the entire game either trying to die or trying to make this game as hilariously difficult as possible when I'm pretty sure my modus operandi of {shade hard, ""accidentally"" lolhammer asap, kill skitter n1} would have worked fine.

I definitely have strengths as scum but I'm not ~great~ at scum and I do not trust myself to scum in f5-6 against conftown!skitter who I know will reread the game with a fairly broad knowledge of my meta. Like she has misread me before but she has a strong baseline for my tricks.

I can rant more about this if you want but this is not a scumduck.

[the worst]

now i'm starting to doubt ss again but that's probably, like, the point of this whole convo

is it weird that I'm getting *less* worried about town!ss?

[the worst]

if SS is scum with Pooky his endgame is pocketing people who will be alive in f3-4 which he is Not doing

if SS is scum with raven I'm not sure raven bothers spending this much time trying to save Pooky?

I don't feel like SS is playing to an endgaming agenda rn?

[the worst]

`-`

[the worst]

ಠ_ಠ

[the worst]

ignoring mechanical stuff and literally looking at macro play things I Do Not Do As Scum

- D1 I think I was fairly transparently trying to sort players for the bulk of the phase (admittedly I charged a bit heavily down the rabbit hole at the end). My reconsideration around Pooky/Aldus may have been incorrect but it was definitely earnest.

- I would have decided to end day one by picking a massive fight with skitter which I was pretty likely to lose from the get go because she's skitter? she then softs night confirmable tpr (bg is a night confirmable tpr) and i make the decision to **double down** on an argument which I'm increasingly likely to lose via her entering day two confirmed

- I then make the decision to just ignore the fact she has explicitly said she'll be confirmable n1 and leave her alive, entering day 2 asking for an explanation and being fully aware that I'll look like a complete idiot if she's confirmed town

- on n1 I decide to shoot Lilith who was confirmed vanilla in a setup I don't know the strength of her game and like I don't remember her read on me but she wasn't pushing me, over 1) skitter who is one of the best town players onsite AND has been softing confirmability 2) SS who has been dkkoba and both knows a lot about my game and I have a strong respect for his late towngame and who I mistook for softing tpr super earlygame, 3) Pooky who had explicitly claimed tpr

- my super genius 3d chess clutch claim to get out of having conftown!skitter likely waiting for me at the start of D2 is to claim probably the most dubious fakeclaim of all time... I'm not going to self meta why this claim isn't scum!me

- in deciding between towsjstr and pooky I decide that no I don't want to push Pooky over the cliff, I would rather elim dsj. This leaves dsj, who is self claimedly infamously miselimable in xylo dead and pooky, who is transparently heavily invested in the game, alive and ready to push back on me in xylo

- I then decide to MFD skitter so she will be alive to flip the table on this xylo rather than just shoot her (if I let her live past n1) and either cry roleblocker and/or just go down setting up my partner


like
I am not scum in this game
Pooky's case against me is blatantly contrived


pedit: I'm sorry if this pushes AtE I'm trying to keep it game relevant but I'm Exasperated

[the worst]

i think i realized what my biggest block is wrt voting here.

it's not the fact that we're about to lose if we're wrong.

it's the fact that if we *don't* lose, skitt's going to die and duck us probably going to die and then i'll be left alone to make the choice in f3.

and i'm terrified.

so let's keep dragging this on for a bit more ok cool

my last will and testament is following a Pooky redflip, Raven is like 85%+ the partner and like I'd do my due diligence and scream a lot before voting in f3-4? but also I think I'd hang my hat on this being the solve.

[the worst]

and if we've been finessed by raven/SS we can share a crying corner in postgame because I don't think I could get to town!Pooky after this phase

[the worst]

same here. but Maybe Not.

[the worst]

uh I skipped a bit like yesterday morning because I started getting a headache but. I've read basically everything.

[the worst]

is that @ me? I'm not really sure what you're asking sorry?

[the worst]

oh like
I don't know
pooky has clearly identified his win condition as surviving & pulling off a miselim today. that is consistent with the fact you and pooky look aligned and you have tried your absolute hardest to push anything but pooky. I don't really know when you might/might not have thought it would be better to bus?

pedit: yeah sorry it clicked; I'm not really sure I have a strong opinion on it

[the worst]

by that token every player in the game is scum and i'm double-scum because... i'm uninformed and didn't think through what would make me look better...?

pedit: i don't give a shiiiiiitttttttttttttttttttt when/if there was a bussing plan or not
pedit2: because of an actual design element which actually exists in the role because it's an actual role that exists in this game!!!!

[the worst]

i know i'm engaging with scum and it's still so frustrating

[the worst]

i'm going to go work, got a deadline today.

[the worst]

i'll be ~aroundish~ for my lunch break

[the worst]

Yes, and? That's why i softed/claimed cuz i didnt want to get voted out

Actually i just thought of something - did i get mf'd just cuz i'm an fn and they wanted to kill me around the bg?

Did someone want tw alive today?

are you feeling the rocks-in-stomach feeling i felt at the start of this phase?

[the worst]

this is the reason why lilith got killed on N1

i literally don't understand this

[the worst]

i have this feeling like you've stomped scum!me since then but i can't like, put my finger on it

[the worst]

i tried a site:forum.mafiascum.net "the worst" "skitter30" search and it's A Lot

i've rolled scum like somewhat-recently if that helps at all

[the worst]

trying to miselim someone who is actually good at mafia and who is claiming to be a friendly neighbour who visited the scum kill on night one is like, not a thing i think i could successfully do

[the worst]

at that point it's optimal to hunt for her partners and have her visit unaligned people who are low in consensus reads until either {she's confirmed, scum are forced to shoot the elim pool}.....

pedit: it's almost like i misread her on day one

[the worst]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80162

Apparently this one, from a year ago, wherein you started by calling me scum for dubious reasons, were kinda flaky, loltownbinned me, and repped out

Since then we've also had a tvt (nomnom's c++), and like three games of me-scum you-town, and a bunch of games that i played and you spectated/modded or vice versa

i might be projecting fear of your towngame + experience with scum!you beating me. interesting.

[the worst]

....and putting ourselves into a position where the game is literally the absolute hardest to win it could possibly be for.....the benefit of being able to leave skitter in the PoE in the hopes we could once again outguess her N2 target IF she was a friendly neighbour in the first place....?

this is literally nka wifom

[the worst]

that was @pooky. sorry gimme a minute

[the worst]

Yeah and then going back to starcraft there's another me-scum and you-town. Maybe another tvt (i just lost track, i looked at like 20 game threads just now), and starcraft

Soi think out of the past 8 it's like two or three tvt's, me-scum you-town 4 times, and you-scum me-town like twice

I think starcraft and american presidents stained my soul and made me permanently paranoid

But even so i dont *think* this is ur scumgame

Also apparently i was at least one newbie with mena, dats, and bugs apiece

Iirc I made a joke about you being confirmed scum by me rolling town in a game recently; we roll opposite alignments A Lot

the stained soul/perpetual paranoia is a gigantic mood after watching the gerrymandering>pypx/y>.....>TM>mbos9 scum skitter evolution; I think we've rolled against each other too many times to be able to read each other as cleanly as we did back in like 2018

[the worst]

let me go find it

[the worst]

i am not a smart duck

[the worst]

fwiw I don't think it's ever worth playing with fire when you're softing confirmable after watching your IC play in jazz mafia(I think? the one where you are scum Krazy)

[the worst]

ate scum Krazy*

pedit: sigh

[the worst]

I think I'd generally just rather stay out of skitter's line of sight? like diving into the crosshairs is a valid strategy with a lot of players but she is very capable of pulling the trigger.

[the worst]

fwiw I don't think it's ever worth playing with fire when you're softing confirmable after watching your IC play in jazz mafia(I think? the one where you are scum Krazy)

Ii mean this is why i called u scum when u called me scum for softing confirmable because u absolutely should have been thinking lf this and, like, not thinking i was scum

I feel like we've crossed over this bridge; I 1) didn't believe you, 2) was not thinking about what happens to scum who cross confirmable-skitter.

[the worst]

I think I'd generally just rather stay out of skitter's line of sight? like diving into the crosshairs is a valid strategy with a lot of players but she is very capable of pulling the trigger.

yes but it would be fun for you to do no?

eeehhhhh
limited novelty maybe? if I was in the right mindset
but not at the expensive of my win condition :/

[the worst]

not if it compromises my win condition and turns my fav hobby into Stress for the next x weeks no...

[the worst]

I like the tension and I like the challenge. I don't like insurmountable stress which is likely to end in me losing games of mafia.

pedit: I mean my m.o. would just be to remove you from the game asap because I think there's a fairly finite list of ways I can successfully play around you; either loltownbin or do our retro "I'll deal with you later!!! *waves fist*" manoeuvre. indeed the hot & cold & then sincerely trying to murder you is very far from the way I'm interested in playing scum around you.

[the worst]

I like the tension and I like the challenge. I don't like insurmountable stress which is likely to end in me losing games of mafia.

pedit: I mean my m.o. would just be to remove you from the game asap because I think there's a fairly finite list of ways I can successfully play around you; either loltownbin or do our retro "I'll deal with you later!!! *waves fist*" manoeuvre. indeed the hot & cold & then sincerely trying to murder you is very far from the way I'm interested in playing scum around you.

well you couldn't really kill her on N1 because you didn't know if there would be a protective role in the game or if she was baiting a NK, it also makes you look bad if she dies.

N2 was when you went to kill her and you had to use MfD in order to not auto-hang on D3 for failing to protect her.

So I would say you took your earliest possible opportunity to eliminate skitter.

... which backs up that i would not let myself get into a situation like i let myself get into d1 given that i place a lot of reverence in skitter's ability to town it up and bury me?

this plist remains strong /without/ skitter but like i was already in a bad spot going into d2 just via fighting with skitter who had said she was a confirmable power role. if i had to decide between somewhat-worsening my bad situation but also removing the player who presented the largest threat to my wincon --- vs. ?already having a fairly rough time d2? AND ALSO keeping skitter alive.... it's literally a no brainer fmpov

i respect the way that you're trying to twist my words but this isn't an actual scum gameplan

[the worst]

this entire tangent is literally obfuscating the fact it's ultimately ~very unlikely~ that scum!me approaches the game this way
is anything impossible? no
does that mean i can be assed intentionally breaking my own meta to go full tryhard mode shortly after returning from hiatus when scum!me would not have trusted himself to live past the d2 situation which he INTENTIONALLY PUT HIMSELF INTO anyway?? good god no

in this situation, i am just not the type of duck who puts the poison in his own gauntlet. my case is not wifom. your manipulative portrayal of my case is wifom. i am a
freshly opened bottle of shiraz wearing a duck costume. just because i look like wine, does not mean there is a 50% chance i am posioned.

this is not a hard concept to grasp. you are not in a situation where you can allow this to be acknowledged as the truth.

[the worst]

i think we need to stop having this conversation, it's literally just going in circles atp

pedit: yeah i'm fine with that.

[the worst]

@TW can you explain why you didn't try to get me lynched on D2 ?

............. i would have taken either of you d2 and i was Disappointed to get a greenflip in {you,dsj}.....
ottomh i think he was a better elim at a gamestate level? he was both scummy and very hard to solve around; like i was not looking at anybody and going "ah they are not scum with dsj" except like.. datisi

like let's look at alternate universes

we elim scum!pooky in f7
enter f5-6 with town!dsj he is likely eliminated
we enter f3-4 and need to solve scum!pooky partners based off early associations and you're looking at dead {skitter, tw}

if you were town and we miselm'd you in f7 like
i don't know who the fuck the team is meant to be
but regardless of his alignment dsj being alive in this gamestate is a massive liability :/

1) A Pooky Red Flip would've been very good for your standing as town because it means you are basically conf-town as only 1 TPR in the game is very unlikely.

i did not expect to be alive in this phase and like... i considered that you could be fakeclaimining but literally did not make the connection that i should try to kill you because that would make me look good because i didn't think i'd need to be read in this phase........

2) If skitter is killed despite your protection on N2 - such as due to mafia strongman or roleblocker, you would still be in a decent position due to (1) instead of being lynch-bait

ok a stronmgman in a micro with a bodyguard is patently ridiculous and i realised that like 3 seconds after thinking of it
if there was a scum roleblocker why would they have let skitter's n.a. get through when they could have just had us tear into each other d2...
these aren't really universes i regarded as remotely likely

3) If you believe there are only 2 TPRs in the game, you being a green TPR means that Pooky must be lying and thus flip red - Pooky should've been more likely to be scum from your PoV

i have definitely been on this high horse before but it's clearly not sinking in

if given the choice between dayplaying mafia or setup speccing into oblivion i will choose mafia about 97% of the time. setup spec is

specualtive

and thinking about it too much is not only a really great way to lose well-designed games (poignantly schadd_ reviewed this game and is a glutton for punishing mod meta) but it also corrodes the integrity of the game v v quickly

so yes, i considered you might be fakeclaiming.
but no, i did not think you claiming bomb in this setup explicitly and necessarily made you absolutely scum fakeclaiming and once again no i did not really consider the value of flipping you to improve my own position going into a day phase i did not expect to be alive in

[the worst]

What was it about DSJ's play that made you decide to push him instead over Pooky? Like what was so overwhelmingly scummy about him that you felt it would be better to resolve his slot rather than your conflict with me?

i'm not going to like. retroactively incorrectly scumcase dsj. we were all there, i did not a make an unilateral decision to kill dsj and i still think my decision to end the day on dsj is completely fair.

[the worst]

what conflict with you

[the worst]

these questions are so warped i'm getting a headache answering them

[the worst]

look i don't spend a lot of time planning out how i'm going to approach games. i'm lowkey lazy and esp. atm i'm trying to focus more on the parts of this game i actually enjoy. more pertinently? in this game i both haven't really focused on optics and blatnatly did not think i needed to set myself up for anything today

you keep asking me to tread over the same ground in increasingly uncomfortably-worded ways
bluntly: you won't find falsehoods in what i'm doing, because it is sincere. i admire the way you keep trying, but i am exhausted and this is becoming tedious.

[the worst]

uh

[the worst]

huh

[the worst]

what the fuck

[the worst]

I did not realise how deep azelf's pockets are. I didn't even think it wore pants.

[the worst]

yeah

[the worst]

..... is it bad I'm still like kinda still half quarter tenth slightly hoping raven just lolhammered scum

[the worst]

(๑•﹏•)

[the worst]

the thought of just killing raven crossed my mind as well but also same and also that's a lot of Effort to go through to kill my weaker scumread

pedit: he doesn't vote as either alignment until he wants to

[the worst]

I am but a spade. A mere spade!!!!

[the worst]

hmm I'd say he has more towngames where he votes more than scumgames where he votes more but for sake of argument --

a) SS doesn't vote much
b) sometimes ss votes more as town
=/= If SS isn't voting much he isn't town

anyway I appreciate that on this occasion I'm arguing an objectively wrong stance but just like, for posterity

[the worst]

hold on I have a perfect answer to this

[the worst]

skitter/dats scumteam ez game

[the worst]

b) sometimes ss votes more as town
=/= If SS isn't voting much he isn't town

I mean true, but there's also a pattern of him, like, not voting in scumgames which i dont see happening in towngames

I may need to brush up on more of his recent scum meta.

[the worst]

whereas anuket topaz he voted a like, surprising amount

[the worst]

also he had the best postgame post there ngl

pedit: that's fair; his voting in anuket topaz was manipulative and false-associative; maybe earnest voting patterns are an SS towntell

[the worst]

Well, now hiatusing

I'm glad we managed to get a game in together between my hiatus & yours; everything ok?

[the worst]

sounds good; I'll probably be asleep next time Micc checks in (10:15pmish here) but I'll be around a bunch tomorrow.

[the worst]

not glad to play with me? ruuude

[the worst]

Alright I have a few things I want to unload.

• Thank you bugs & Raven for being awesome scumbuddies. Both of you added so much to this game, and it just... would have been much less of a time without either of you. It's been really fun and I have huge admiration for what both of you did here.
  
• I was not trying to troll for the last few pages; it's a matter of policy fmpov that until a theme game has been called by the mod (or there is substantial information that it's endgame) it's just good practice to assume the worst and Remain In Character until after it's called.
  
• I suppose I'm in a kind of transitive phase in my meta where I'm trying to change the way I play/enjoy the game; hopefully for the better. A very small number of players on this list are aware of this, and I really hope that I've been able to navigate this game in a way which isn't manipulative via out-of-game knowledge.
  
• Pooky - sorry that you don't feel I deserve the win. I'm not in a phase where putting hours into scumcasing you feels like a good time / good use of my time, and I had indeed realised that Raven had already set herself up in a way which would endgame us even if you did turn the tide against me. I have a lot of respect for the amount of effort you put into just trying your hardest.
  
• Some parts of this game were a bit hard-going, but the highs were really phenomenally high. It's been stressful but definitely in a good way. I've had a blast. You're all great.

[the worst]

And you can fucking ask duckling if you think I’m lying about any of this. He will 100% confirm I 100% did have an actual meltdown, for the exact reasons I claimed.

I can definitely back up that you were really visibly shaken & upset by that exchange, yeah. I don't know if this conversation needs to happen in public / right now though; it might be healthier to wait until everyone has calmed down a bit then chat about it directly?

[the worst]

Bodyguard claim seems to have been playing with fire when you didn't know the whole setup, no? Surely if Pooky's PR had been stronger you would have paid for that.

I was expecting to go down in a blaze of glory for like the entirety of day one and the first chunk of day two; it was a hail mary and I got, like, *obscenely* lucky.

[the worst]

I’ll start with good things:

- my 100% read rate on SS stays intact yayyyyyy (now I just have to beat my record of lockreading within 17 SS posts)
- I enjoyed playing with most of you

hey I'm not *that* bad

(I enjoyed playing with you a lot. we need to reprise this soon!)

[the worst]

Regarding toxicity: sorry to the rest of the PL for making it unpleasant for you. Also, ducky — sorry about the stuff on you knowing who I was or not? I just thought you’d figure it out without trying bc I like, wasn’t really trying to hide it this fame (skitt and dats already knew) and I was thinking it was kinda susp if you’d realised DC /was/ me and were just like... not acknowledging that

it's ok; definitely a matter of policy for me to try and avoid identifying alts if I possibly can but I know that kinda jars from the way a lot of people approach alts generally and stuff so I expect to take flak for it. thank you for thinking on it & circling back to it here.

the first time actually wondered if it was you was when I was reflecting on you getting disappointed about me not correctly identifying it was you

... that sure is a sentence I wrote

[the worst]

I wonder how honest to be

[the worst]

I'll just let people read the scum chat if they want

[the worst]

I don't think there were really a lot of actual major hard feelings towards you aldu. I know I happened to have an unlikeable win condition this time but I admired the way you didn't give into the general frustration/AtE stuff in the air and just played your way.

Actually every time I play with you I tend to have at least one moment where I realise I think you're great. so, I think you're great.

[the worst]

I enjoyed that page a lot

[the worst]

which posts of mine do you think crossed the line where I was lying about my personal feelings or circumstances?

you're not even a real bear.
stuff bears can't type so well.
check mate, pooky.

[the worst]

i think from that vantage point u were mostly fine tbh

right, I'm more just disagreeing with pooky's statement that like, all emotional manipulation is okay

this resonates with me a lot i think. there's a distinction between letting emotions show as either alignment & outright emotional manipulation. and like tbh nobody wants to be emotionally manipulated so just avoiding players who do it is a great idea.

[the worst]

it's clearly not!! your paws are huge and keyboards are so small

[the worst]

huh, i've been debunked. please carry on.

[the worst]

here's my notes thread where you can read how bad i am at this game, if anyone needs a laugh, and it seems like we do need it: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=83851

[the worst]

i definitely find note pts (or even sometimes spreadsheets / trellos for real true tryharding) help a lot

imo it's really handy having somewhere to put

Everything

and then reassessing where i think scum are / how to "streamline" my thread presence so i'm more likely to be read/interacted with
it's also really damn helpful for casing just plucking ~a dozen useful post #s out of a PT rather than digging through entire ISOs

[the worst]

whats a trello

you're way better off not knowing, believe me
it's like, a collaborative task management platform kinda thing? i just have a solo one where sometimes i keep notes about players / setup concepts / poignant associative or anti-associative pairs i spot in games

[the worst]

trellos

NERD

basically, SS nailed it.

[the worst]

i'm scum irl bill, all my appreciation pages are scum appreciation pages

pedit:
i could be talked into a dsj appreciation page as well but i'm not sure how to do it exactly

[the worst]

it made my day a little brighter seeing you pop by!

sorry i stole your thing; i think you know our styles directly converge when it comes to "sheer comical audacity", the moment was just too good to pass up

[the worst]

Hahahaha. This is great.

[the worst]

we are editing an encoded message into the scum pt for you. thank you for your patience, it'll be out soon.