Micro 972: E7 [Game Over!]

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Penguin

Because who hates Kool-aid. How you been man? Haven't played with you in a while.

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Nona

Ego post and more than 12 hours with nothing? Thats a scumclaim.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I think I'd prefer to find a scumread first, and then apply pressure, instead of the other way around. Or at least E-1 pressure. PR/VT tells are a thing too.

So why just unvote and not vote me? You had said you thought I was scum based on my opening. Which I guess makes you a United supporter, but you just unvoted rather than voting me. Why?

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Lost

Like joqiza for town.

Is this conditioned on Nona's alignment?

Also, why'd you go over to Lost? How did this interaction with Joc change you feelings on Nona's alignment?

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Lost

Like joqiza for town.

me too

Why?

[Billy Pilgrim]

A replacement has been found. Almost50 replaces Kool Aid Man. Loading all PMs and settings.

Come on, people! Not a single welcome???

Whats up man? 9 points out of a possible 9 and Salah off to a strong start. Up the Reds.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Joqiza seems town here, way too towny in fact. I'll have to think about this some more because the rapid fire responses seem planned. I dont know if its a PP joq pairing yet, but penguins questions feel weak and joqs seem too strong.

Joc asked like 1 question. Most of those posts were responses. I dont understand this post.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I think I'd prefer to find a scumread first, and then apply pressure, instead of the other way around. Or at least E-1 pressure. PR/VT tells are a thing too.

So why just unvote and not vote me? You had said you thought I was scum based on my opening. Which I guess makes you a United supporter, but you just unvoted rather than voting me. Why?

Ew football

You... saw my avatar... right? Dont worry, I dont do it too often. Usually just incorporated into my jokes and I'm way more serious than most players on site.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Joqiza seems town here, way too towny in fact. I'll have to think about this some more because the rapid fire responses seem planned. I dont know if its a PP joq pairing yet, but penguins questions feel weak and joqs seem too strong.

Joc asked like 1 question. Most of those posts were responses. I dont understand this post.

Thats what i mean. It seems unnatural to be asking such lightweight questions for pp in specific. Maybe im just being a contrarian. I dont buy the exchange, anyway.

I'm not taking issue with what you're saying about Penguin. More about what you're saying about Joc. Joc asked literally 1 question (I'm not counting the first page sort of rumination about whether you can catch scum page 1). It wasn't a super strong question. Why did you think Joc's questions were too strong. It seemed weird at the moment so im curious what you meant by it.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I guess my read comes more from not having meta knowledge, but i guess someone coming from epic mafia would play like this. I still dont know what to feel about it, and svs is still an option.
On another note, i dont like penguin/lost/almost just tossing people into the town pile. I think its frankly too early to do anything like this and im sure at least one of them is scum. Town wouldnt, or at least shouldnt feel comfortable tossing everyone they see into townpile just 4 pages into a game.

You think townbinning people too early is scum motivated?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I guess my read comes more from not having meta knowledge, but i guess someone coming from epic mafia would play like this. I still dont know what to feel about it, and svs is still an option.
On another note, i dont like penguin/lost/almost just tossing people into the town pile. I think its frankly too early to do anything like this and im sure at least one of them is scum. Town wouldnt, or at least shouldnt feel comfortable tossing everyone they see into townpile just 4 pages into a game.

You think townbinning people too early is scum motivated?

Its anti town, and i dont think people should be indulging in throwing out random reads for the sake of it. Theres clear danger in townreading scum that might not be obvious at first glance, acting and reading people comprehensibly is good for town while throwing out random reads are not.
Whatever. Its 1 am, i just want to say that yeah its pretty anti town

This sort of pushing hard on "anti-town" behavior is different in both tone and content from your past couple of town games. Its not a mirror of your scum game, but I only found one and you replaced out.

This feels like you trying to rush into a read and yet simulatenously not committing to it, since you waffled on whether it was scummy in the beginning.

In principle im voting Dong here, but I dont want to lol hammer.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I guess my read comes more from not having meta knowledge, but i guess someone coming from epic mafia would play like this. I still dont know what to feel about it, and svs is still an option.
On another note, i dont like penguin/lost/almost just tossing people into the town pile. I think its frankly too early to do anything like this and im sure at least one of them is scum. Town wouldnt, or at least shouldnt feel comfortable tossing everyone they see into townpile just 4 pages into a game.

You think townbinning people too early is scum motivated?

Its anti town, and i dont think people should be indulging in throwing out random reads for the sake of it. Theres clear danger in townreading scum that might not be obvious at first glance, acting and reading people comprehensibly is good for town while throwing out random reads are not.
Whatever. Its 1 am, i just want to say that yeah its pretty anti town

This sort of pushing hard on "anti-town" behavior is different in both tone and content from your past couple of town games. Its not a mirror of your scum game, but I only found one and you replaced out.

This feels like you trying to rush into a read and yet simulatenously not committing to it, since you waffled on whether it was scummy in the beginning.

In principle im voting Dong here, but I dont want to lol hammer.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@BillyPilgrim

You're comparing Dong's behavior this game to previous town/scum games. Were you in those town games? Or did you just look them up yourself?

I looked at its previous games. It took a while to find a scum game, but its in there.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I guess my read comes more from not having meta knowledge, but i guess someone coming from epic mafia would play like this. I still dont know what to feel about it, and svs is still an option.
On another note, i dont like penguin/lost/almost just tossing people into the town pile. I think its frankly too early to do anything like this and im sure at least one of them is scum. Town wouldnt, or at least shouldnt feel comfortable tossing everyone they see into townpile just 4 pages into a game.

You think townbinning people too early is scum motivated?

Its anti town, and i dont think people should be indulging in throwing out random reads for the sake of it. Theres clear danger in townreading scum that might not be obvious at first glance, acting and reading people comprehensibly is good for town while throwing out random reads are not.
Whatever. Its 1 am, i just want to say that yeah its pretty anti town

@PP - how strong is your read on Joc?

@Dong, does your concern depend on the strength of the read?

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Lost

Like joqiza for town.

me too

Why?

i liked 34

do u have a diff opinion on him?

What made that a town post?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Lastly, imma VOTE: Almost50. I don't know where his head's at. Give me something.

choochoo

VOTE: almost

would like to hear more from you almost. what are your thoughts on dong

My thoughts are the exact same thoughts pf PP. Whatever he says I agree with, and wherever he votes my vote follows.

Ew.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Lastly, imma VOTE: Almost50. I don't know where his head's at. Give me something.

choochoo

VOTE: almost

would like to hear more from you almost. what are your thoughts on dong

My thoughts are the exact same thoughts pf PP. Whatever he says I agree with, and wherever he votes my vote follows.

so you agree with everything dong and pp are saying?

Why is Dong here?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Btw, does me putting someone @E-1 mean anything to you?

Not really. I can't unvote this one since I'm not on the wagon. Arguably it is a non-associative but IMO surely if I were scum I'd take a chance to put my partner on E-1 early. I would rather get your takes on the interactions between players this game. Even gut reads can be helpful.

Am I interpreting 115 correctly--you TR penguin? Why?

Why would you want to put your partner at E-1 early if youre scum?

[Billy Pilgrim]

In principle im voting Dong here, but I dont want to lol hammer.

??? how can you lol hammer someone with no votes on him

I needed to check to make sure he wasn't sitting at E-1. My catchup doesn't always look ahead.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Pilgrim: I am looking forward to seeing a brace (or maybe another hat-trick) tonight. Keep your fingers crossed.

I dont care who scores. I just want the GOOOOOAAALLS!

[Billy Pilgrim]

What made that a town post?

his intro def set the context for how i read his posts. actively(not the right word but i can't find the appropriate one) jumping off the wagon seems like a newbtown mindset, in that having a wagon grow too fast could potentially end the day early.

as opposed to newbscum, that wouldn't really care because why should they.

Right, but given that hes not a newb, does that still apply?

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Pilgrim: I am looking forward to seeing a brace (or maybe another hat-trick) tonight. Keep your fingers crossed.

Well, you got your brace, but wow didn't everything suck.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I don't want to talk about it. I doubt anything I say will make me feel better.

Yeah, im in a bad place at the moment. Can't really think now.

[Billy Pilgrim]

A50 going after the low hanging fruit does give me concern.

[Billy Pilgrim]

My read on Nona has developed to "unconfident scum" (THEY are unconfident, not my read on them). They are trying to avoid the thread as much as they can and their reads seems to follow consensus with not much originality/genuineness.

So, I now have Lost as a top TR, followed by PP then BP. I have Nona at the bottom of my read list and I have no "personal" read on Dong/Jog (this means I'd still sheep PP in these two, although I might now also consider Lost's reads)

A50, since the last time we'd played together, how would you say your game has changed?

[Billy Pilgrim]

i like nona

hi nona what do you think about billy

could use some more analysis. i like his questions though, and his approach to joqiza on post 65 was nice.

could you do that analysis now and then come up with something more concrete?

sorry i meant id like to hear more reads/analysis from billy before i think on his alignment

because all ive seen so far is questions and interactions with others which is nai

This is interesting. I've played a decent bit of games on site and this is the first time someone didn't get a sort of gutted from my playstyle. Most people sort of immediately scumread me while others think its a townie curiosity, but this was an explicit fence-sit until i came out with more reads.

Why would my reads help sort me. Let's say I think you're hedging. What does that mean for my alignment? Let's say I think the monkey is a bit out of character because I'm used to him spam posting?

Side note, I like the way dong answered my concerns about it, but ... im concerned because that's what I do as scum. I tend to interrogate the scumreads and like see if parts of it are valid. So im a bit confused how if you think im misrepresenting a sort of playstyle you have that makes me town.

I realize that I didn't vote there after the last votecount and this hasn't really given me a reason to townbin you.

VOTE: Dong

Also, I looked at that game with Umlaut, but didn't see what you were referring to. Can you point me to your back and forth? I'll admit I didn't read the whole game, I was more looking for your early posts because here you seemed to rocket the game out of RVS and I picked up in your town games that you tend to suspect people that do that.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Nona, I want to hear exactly what you think of Almost50's push on you. I want to hear the emotional response you had when you saw his vote and read his case on you. I want to hear what you think of the logic he presents, and I want to know what your read on his alignment is.

Holy shit, are we playing mafia or did someone sign me up for group therapy and not tell me?

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Almost50

Why would I NOT care about what your read is on me? I am trying to assess if your reads come from a genuine, uninformed, town perspective rather than a fabrication of that. Let me re-phrase what I'm interested in. It's not that I care about your read on ME, it's that I care about your read on the player with the highest post volume and most significant thread presence in the game. That is actually not usually me! But it does happen to be me in this game!

You claim to be concerned about eliminating scum today, and -if you're town- you should be content I am not looking your way. Period.

Why does this even make sense? Why would I not want you to look my way if I'm town? What benefit does it confer me that you refuse to read me? The reason I'm pushing it is because I think you ignoring me is scummy.

Saying that I'm waiting until tomorrow to read Nona is an outright falsehood. Every post I make towards her is basically me, on my knees, begging her to give me something to work with. If she doesn't contribute more I'll put her on L-1 but I honestly could see town!Nona just walking back into thread and just claiming her role instead of actually bothering to towntell in response to that.

My issue with you is that you claim to be able to divine this sort of read on Nona of "unconfident scum" when in my eyes there's little to suggest that she couldn't just be town that doesn't give a shit. I actually do find the little content she has pretty questionable but for the most part she is unreadable so far and so my strategy is to read AROUND her, figuring out to the alignments of the other players in order to PoE to her alignment. Which is why, by the way, I'm pressuring YOU. You, meanwhile, claim to have figured Nona out while also not having a read on me or Dong.

I dont have a read on you either because what I see is a bunch of LAMIST type posting and that tends to be more playstyle indicative than alignment indicative. So what does my null read of you mean for my alignment?

[Billy Pilgrim]

The observation about Dong is actually really solid. I originally read 18 as a joke, but looking at it again, it's entirely possible he actually thought Sirius was a player. Which, as Almost pointed out, makes him much less likely to be mafia.

You took that seriously?

[Billy Pilgrim]

A50 played scum with me once when we didn't have daytalk. Him classifying LAMIST for me as a scum tell is like complete bullshit since to some degree its my playstyle. Remember that large normal where I claimed VT early on to get cleared? And I lolhammered someone once in a hydra with Hectic and so now I double check vote counts before putting a vote down.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@BP

18, or Almost's comment about it? I just said I originally read Dong's comment as a joke, but now think it might be serious.

Almost's comment about it.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@BP

18, or Almost's comment about it? I just said I originally read Dong's comment as a joke, but now think it might be serious.

Almost's comment about it.

Did you not? What indicates that wasn't a serious read?

Because it was so bizarre it couldn't have been serious. And if hes gonna put this much weight on what seemed to be a joke vote, you don't think he would have asked Dong whether it was a joke?

[Billy Pilgrim]

A50 played scum with me once when we didn't have daytalk. Him classifying LAMIST for me as a scum tell is like complete bullshit since to some degree its my playstyle. Remember that large normal where I claimed VT early on to get cleared? And I lolhammered someone once in a hydra with Hectic and so now I double check vote counts before putting a vote down.

i don't think claiming vt is particularly lamist. also still don't get why you didn't vote dong when you said you wanted to. you could have just checked to see if he was e-1.

This is a product of the fact that I dont have a computer that I play on. I only play on my phone. So that was saying my intention is to vote here, but I want to check a vote count first. Don't know if you've ever tried to play on a phone before, but keeping open a bunch of tabs to check vote counts and search for the most recent VC is a giant pain in the ass. So when I come in the game and notice that there are pages after where I am, I just say things like this so that people can track where I am. I do this as scum too though so its not AI.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Side note, I like the way dong answered my concerns about it, but ... im concerned because that's what I do as scum. I tend to interrogate the scumreads and like see if parts of it are valid. So im a bit confused how if you think im misrepresenting a sort of playstyle you have that makes me town.

I realize that I didn't vote there after the last votecount and this hasn't really given me a reason to townbin you.

VOTE: Dong

Also, I looked at that game with Umlaut, but didn't see what you were referring to. Can you point me to your back and forth? I'll admit I didn't read the whole game, I was more looking for your early posts because here you seemed to rocket the game out of RVS and I picked up in your town games that you tend to suspect people that do that.

hi billy i read this 4 times and my brain fell out of my ears

can you clarify:
"i tend to interrogate the scumreads and see the parts that are valid" - is this what you refer to when you say "im concerned because that's what i do as scum", and if so, where was this point brought up in your interaction with dong? if it isn't, then what are you actually referring to

what does not voting dong have to do with not townbinning nona(are you referring to nona?)

and...who is the whole last para directed to? dong?

Yeah, sorry, that was bad. What I mean is I look at the people that scumread me and talk about it to see whether I think its fair or not. I spend a decent bit of time doing this as town too, but I think as scum im more likely to make sure that I give credence to the scumread, as a way to sort of wave it off. So Dong townreading me out of it while taking issue with the substance makes me think its coming from a too much information type place. Like I dont see how town!Dong doesn't look at that and go, wtf, you misrepped my meta, why would you do that. Whereas scum!Dong already knows my alignment so is more concerned with placating me than sorting me.

Did that work better? The townbinning comment was to Dong so I dont know why you were asking about Nona.

[Billy Pilgrim]

in the interest of time i would actually prefer if you just shared. i believe meta gained by playing together is more valuable than the information i gain from reading these games

If I keep outing what specific tells I have on people in every game I will soon be unable to read them myself. It's not like "X tends to be more fluffy/chatty when they're a certain alignment" which is a hard to break meta because even you manage to pretend for sometime you gradually get back to your true nature over the course of the game. But sometimes the tell is so simple it could be faked be faked if found out. (For a HYPOTHETICAL example: Someone uses smilies more often as one alignment but not the other culd easily be circumvented if brought to the player's attention)

Oh shit, he caught me. I mean...

[Billy Pilgrim]

bp what are your reads like?

Not really well developed. I think Joc seems to be approaching this from a town perspective and you as well.

I think at the moment my primary suspects are Dong and the monkey, which honestly is par for me playing with the monkey. We talk about Liverpool a bit, then we scumread each other for a while.

[Billy Pilgrim]

im ok with bp pp nona dong, although im a little hesitant on pp and nona. not particularly keen on ending a low content day with a an elim on a low poster

Does im ok with refer to a scum pool or townpool?

[Billy Pilgrim]

A50 played scum with me once when we didn't have daytalk. Him classifying LAMIST for me as a scum tell is like complete bullshit since to some degree its my playstyle. Remember that large normal where I claimed VT early on to get cleared? And I lolhammered someone once in a hydra with Hectic and so now I double check vote counts before putting a vote down.

i don't think claiming vt is particularly lamist. also still don't get why you didn't vote dong when you said you wanted to. you could have just checked to see if he was e-1.

It wasn't the claim. It was everything around the claim. Obviously claiming vt isn't lamist, its just a role claim.

[Billy Pilgrim]

back.

i got town vibes from joqiza and pp's interaction earlier.

i also like billy pilgrim's question above^

Nona, you said this, earlier. I sort of took it to mean you were townreading PP. What changed? Or is that not what you meant?

i was leaning town on pp for that earlier but thats the only leantown thing i had on pp

Think Joc and Nona are unlikely to be partners.

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Sirius

ego

No u. Where's your mod colour?

Wait, are you the backup mod or a player?

Backup Mod - Sirius

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Sirius

ego

No u. Where's your mod colour?

Wait, are you the backup mod or a player?

Nevermind, now I see the 1st post.

[Billy Pilgrim]

i like nona

hi nona what do you think about billy

could use some more analysis. i like his questions though, and his approach to joqiza on post 65 was nice.

could you do that analysis now and then come up with something more concrete?

sorry i meant id like to hear more reads/analysis from billy before i think on his alignment

because all ive seen so far is questions and interactions with others which is nai

This is interesting. I've played a decent bit of games on site and this is the first time someone didn't get a sort of gutted from my playstyle. Most people sort of immediately scumread me while others think its a townie curiosity, but this was an explicit fence-sit until i came out with more reads.

Why would my reads help sort me. Let's say I think you're hedging. What does that mean for my alignment? Let's say I think the monkey is a bit out of character because I'm used to him spam posting?

Side note, I like the way dong answered my concerns about it, but ... im concerned because that's what I do as scum. I tend to interrogate the scumreads and like see if parts of it are valid. So im a bit confused how if you think im misrepresenting a sort of playstyle you have that makes me town.

I realize that I didn't vote there after the last votecount and this hasn't really given me a reason to townbin you.

VOTE: Dong

Also, I looked at that game with Umlaut, but didn't see what you were referring to. Can you point me to your back and forth? I'll admit I didn't read the whole game, I was more looking for your early posts because here you seemed to rocket the game out of RVS and I picked up in your town games that you tend to suspect people that do that.

i wanted to see more direct stuff from you.

did you know this is your first vote since rvs?

i agree with practice you could probably read people reliably from their posting behavior but i do not know you and the way you have posted a decent amount without much sorting is worrying.

See this is what I was waiting for. Why did you wait until now to out the scumread? In your earlier post, my questions were nai. Now, you claim I've posted a decent amount without much sorting, and its worrying. I gave two people that I thought were likely to be town. Also, my questions were engaging people, so what are you referring to with respect to me not sorting?

[Billy Pilgrim]

hmmm

We only have 25 hours left. Lost is the leading wagon with 2 votes, and its Dong's RVS vote and Penguin's vote right after he got off Joc.

This day didn't accomplish like anything. Except I dont want Lost as the elim. My preference is for Dong. But at this moment I won't fight any elim inside of Nona, A50, or Penguin.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Lost, why did you unvote A50?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I have three good townreads.

VOTE: Dong

Actually prefer Nona but hey. Either one is fine.

Care to out the three?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Page 1:

- Joq could be scum with Nona (scum voting partner in RVS tell)
- Billy could be scum with Penguin (same as above)
- Lost is NOT scum with Penguin (game too small for asecond vote on partner on page 1)
- Dong is TOWN. (As per the scum PMs they have DAYCHAT, so mistaking the mod for a player is out of question)
- Billy switching off PP and unto Nona is questionable (another associative tell he may be scum with Penguin)
- 22 is weird, but nit "scummy" kind of weird.
- 23 is even weirder. I'd lean town on Joq, except the reasoning would be an insult to him.

Page 2:

- Penguin joining Billy on Nona is alarming. Gun-to-my head it's BP+PP for the scum team at this point.
- Joq unvoting Nona is either a town move or a partner move. In other words, Joq can only be scum if Nona is.

Page 3:

- 53 VERY bad post/response, considering Lost is likely Town. (I -of course didn't have a TR on him back then, hence the vote)

Page 4:

- 86 was definitely a joke (and not game-related). Just want to make that clear enough by now.

Page 5:

- 122 Last line is too LAMIST it's almost a scum claim (but it requires you to actually know BP to know what I'm talking about)

Page 6:

NOTHING

Page 7:

- 163 I stand by this still. By now I am ruling out Lost as scum completely.
- 165 makes me think Joq is very likely town, but it's STILL about Nona, so I will disregard
- 173 OK. I'll go on a limb and say Joq is Town here. Too much effort for scum!him. If I'm wrong, WELL DONE.

Page 8:

- 189 Another semi-scum-claim by Billy. (Again, you don't need to take my word for it, as I do have experience with him

as his scum partner

). HOWEVER, it also makes it unlikelt he is scum with Nona.
- At this point, the only viable scum pairs in my view are Nona/Billy Pilgrim, Nona/PenguinPower & Billy Pilgrim/PenguinPower (and still; gun-to-my-head I'd say it's BP+PP. If not, then it's BP+Nona)

Page 9:

NOTHING changed.

I also "think" I got BOTH our PRs pegged by now (I -of course- made no mention of it at the time9s) I did, so clearing someone at some point has NOTHING to do with them saying something I would consider a crumb or a hint)

VOTE: Penguin

IF I am correct, PP should be the Roleblocker here. (Unless it's him + Nona, in which case either could be the RB). This based on both level of activity and content in their posts comparison between PP & BP

@Joq: Happy now?? I aim to please!

I'm missing something here. Lost can't be scum with Penguin because he put a second vote on him and game is too small for a 2nd vote on partner, yet I can be scum with Nona when I was the second vote on her on page 1?

[Billy Pilgrim]

or you, A50, and joq

I can't tell if these are serious, but if they are I'd like to hear the why on A50.

[Billy Pilgrim]

A50 would try to pocket me, not push me.

Just happened recently.

Did it work?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Yep. Though more rationale heads prevailed and he lost anyway.

So you think hed make the same play again rather than switch it up?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Actually thinking about it more we are in ELO already so cop just needs to give info and then we should play it from there.

You think scum holstered in a game with a cop? Also, we're not in ELO. We're in M-ELO.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Night stuff aside, I think Nona's hammer was scummy. Im upset I didn't go there first yesterday.

[Billy Pilgrim]

i kinda think all the scum are on dongs wagon

i tr joqiza and i kinda liked a50 since the second half of day 1

two in bp/pp/lost

So you're shading a wagon that *checks notes* you hammered without a claim?

How did you come to this conclusion that both scum were on the wagon?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Where is everybody? We can't have another day like D1 where the clock forces something. I won't be around most of today, but may be back on in like 9 hours.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Dongempire (4): Billy Pilgrim, PenguinPower, Lost, Nona
PenguinPower (1): Almost50
Lost (1): Dongempire

That was a disgusting wagon that lead to a bad elimination and everyone on it should be ashamed of themselves if they're town.

That said, I agree with Nona and I do believe both scum were on it. I am adamant it's most probably PP+BP, and I want to pock up from where I left yesterday.

VOTE: Penguin

Wtf are you doing? This is MELO. Why are you voting out the gate?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I initially thought I should push PP w/o outing and see who does what, but that elimination on Dong made me think scum could very well force another miselimination today.

ALSO, I agree the Doc should NOT out today. Not just because I'd need them to protect me tonight. but also because dsjstr!'s logic has some merit to it. PP could have very well holstered, but NOT to out the Doc. It was to make ot harder for us to eliminate him today (we need all 4 town votes on him rather than "all" 3 town votes if he had killed someone_. I am not saying I 100% believe he did that, but I'm saying it's not too out of his character.

P.S. If that is true (PP holstered) I'd consider that to be a guilty on BP already. These were the two I was pushing (in addition to Nona) and if BP was Town PP could have very well tried to push him.

P.P.S. I don't think scum!Nona would open the day stating both scum were on the wagon. I am leaning Town on her now.

Over and out.

Ok this is interesting. I'm inclined to believe this as I dont think that scum A50 would get into an unnecessary 1v1 out the gate in MELO.

That said, is there a CC? I'm not counter-claiming. And if this is real and he caught the roleblocker then this is great.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Hello, everyone.

Welcome to my first modding game here, E7

The game is in

Day 2

.

Moderated by Sirius9121, backed up by Pookythemagicalbear

Players

Nona
Billy Pilgrim
Almost50

(replaces Kool Aid Man)

Lost
PenguinPower
dsjstr

(replaces joqiza)

Dongempire

was Vanilla Town, died Day 1 by Elimination.

A · next to their name means they have not confirmed. An asterisk means they have received a prod.

Spoiler: Votecounter Settings

Living Players

Nona
Billy Pilgrim
Almost50 (replaces Kool Aid Man)
Lost
PenguinPower
dsjstr (replaces joqiza)

Dead Players

Dongempire

Links

Day 1: Post #4

Deadline

2020-10-16 22:00:00 +8.00

Then why aren't you voting PP?? I am either the Cop or I am scum, which would mean Scum can't quick hammer.

P.S. I'd LOVE for someone to CC. It would -at least- clear you.

I didn't think about this, because sometimes I'm a dumbass.

VOTE: Penguin

[Billy Pilgrim]

and i've caught up

VOTE: peng

Dude, wtf? You're not gonna wait until everyone's checked in to see if there's a CC? Like I could do that, because even if A50 was scum there would still be a townie needed to mis-elim. But if you're town, then any scum could pull this off and it may be nice to see where people are at rather than cut the day short.

UNVOTE:

[Billy Pilgrim]

are you waiting for peng to cc?

Neither dsj nor Nona have weighed in since the initial claim. So there are 3 people that haven't weighed in since A50's claim. Not sure why you've limited it to 1 other option.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Cool, so we've got a guilty on PP (PP was the CC i would have been least likely to believe.) The result coupled with the elitell makes it even more likely that its just a guilty and he's trying not to spew associatives. Now it makes sense to look for potential associatives.
If PP is the roleblocker than we get a result tomorrow, so great. If he's not then we won't get a result. Now his three D1 trs were me, A50, and Joc/dsj, and he said his preference was for Nona. Now the A50 tr wasn't a partner and im not his partner. Does anyone have PP scum meta on whether he trs his partners or distances? Because I tr'd Joc, but I also find it weird that he would tr 3 townies, but I guess there's wifom. Also he didn't know he was gonna get guiltied so there is the possibility that he figured those associative wouldn't get revealed.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Ok most recent game i checked from scum Pemguin was noir mafia. He RVS'd outside his partner but then seemed to just stay on his partner during D2 and D3 and was on one of his partners with his first serious vote, so that probably weighs a bit more in favor of Nona scum. Also, he only threw out one townpool that game of 3 people and all three were town, so I think that probably builds on my Joc/dsj townread.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@BP: I'm nor gonna accuse you of anything (i.e. not gonna call you conf-scum because of this) but.. dude. That crumb is a TRADE MARK of mine, I don't even know how PP missed it.

But, OK.. let's just say you're being too careful. Nothing wrong with that.

I didn't on re-read. I was supposed to kill you but there was a timing issue.

Now of course this is very likely to be wifom, but this suggests that maybe he holstered. Also, this is why I dont understand why people crumb their damn roles.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Regardless doc shouldn't claim target. Because if so our cop is dead. Otherwise he's stuck keeping the cop alive to 4p M-ELO

[Billy Pilgrim]

Hmm.. I am surprised.. would even say I am shocked, but BP's last 3-4 posts do show a townie mindset. I must've overlooked something or I may have cleared someone too soon (Hint: Evidently that wasn't Dong, so probably someone who objected to the clear on Dong).

OK, so it's probably Lost > Joq iirc?? Actually Lost >>> Joq, because my reason to have TR's Lost was much weaker than that why I TR'd Joq, AND because I am leaning that Dong elimination would not have gone through without BOTH scum being on it.

I think Joc/dsj is town. Im between Nona and Lost and I'd like to know why you think both would have to be on that wagon for it to have gone through given how weird that wagon went down.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Because I showed why he was TOWN in my PoV, and was pressured to lower my TR confidence on him, then he was voted to oblivion still. "Someone" wanted him dead. Nona could sure be PPs partner still, as I now realized she made her declaration both scum were on the wagon before I outed my guilty on PP, so probably expected herself to have been checked and went for some WIFOM, maybe?

Yeah, I'd still want to check between her and Lost, except if she is the RB and not PP then I won't be getting a result anyway, but I'm 95% confident if we kill them both the Town wins anyway.

We can't do this by PoE. One M-Elim and we lose for sure unless PP is the roleblocker in which case we may have an extra elim.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Because I showed why he was TOWN in my PoV, and was pressured to lower my TR confidence on him, then he was voted to oblivion still. "Someone" wanted him dead. Nona could sure be PPs partner still, as I now realized she made her declaration both scum were on the wagon before I outed my guilty on PP, so probably expected herself to have been checked and went for some WIFOM, maybe?

Yeah, I'd still want to check between her and Lost, except if she is the RB and not PP then I won't be getting a result anyway, but I'm 95% confident if we kill them both the Town wins anyway.

When she referenced the ouija board I half thought she was the cop. I mean this also could have been a way to help distance herself from PP. She shades the wagon so if he gets flipped she's like able to look in (me,Lost) for her Elim. Gives her some flexibility and distance. But the way Lost shaded me hard earlier today, im concerned there as well, though since you seemed to be worried about me waiting maybe im wrong there...

[Billy Pilgrim]

Ok A50 is cop, PP is scum. So last scum in (Nona, lost, dsj). I think dsj is town here. So there's most likely one scum in (Nona, lost). If doc claims they probably get CC'd which gives us a clear 1v1. Then they'd get rb'd to kill the cop and there'd be nothing but wifom. Doc doesn't claim now, cop gets rb'd, no result there. Someone else prob dead so it makes the 1v1 a bit more obvious. And A50 will still be around tomorrow to help, but he wouldn't be here post NK to help sort. Yeah, I think doc claiming here is a bad idea. A50, you think there's any reason to keep the day going?

[Billy Pilgrim]

A50, you think there's any reason to keep the day going?

Not at all.

Ok, VOTE: Penguin

[Billy Pilgrim]

I did not see that kill or that role from Nona. So this leaves me as presumptively thinking that its PP/Lost.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Monkey let me know if there's a reason I shouldn't vote Lost.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Anyone want to take a guess at who Mr. Monkey copped last night

Spoiler: My Guess

Me!!

i think he probably checked either me or nona

I hope he checked anyone but Nona. If he checked me im not gonna be that happy, because then I still have to think about whether its you or dsj. Leaning you though.

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: Lost

Cool, let me know if you have any questions for me. Im just glad the mental anguish is over. Just finished a really painful game where I was the hammerer, so im glad I dont have to figure anything out here.

Since DSJ and A50 are town, Lost is scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

You do rea;oze Billy was the first voter on Dong though, right? Why wouldn't he unvote if he didn't like the wagon?

I never said I didn't like the dong wagon. Hell I helped build the wagon. And I was calling for votes. I was just wrong.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Okie dokie, so Lost it is (and BP saved scum on D1)

Btw, I am 3/4 if Lost is scum, and 4/4 if BP is scum. I guessed Nona was the Doc on D1 (Mod may confirm post-game) and I guessed PP was RB correct, but I thought BP was his partner. I also -somehow- knew who the Cop was *teehee*

Ready to end the game?

Of course I saved scum on D1. Because I'm the worst.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Hell yes, we win. Gg team.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Quick game. Sorry Lost, the guilty on PP probably blew it.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I feel mostly useless this game.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Thanks for modding. Interesting setup. I like it and only having one miselim makes it challenging.