Micro 982: Dr. Hideyoshi

[The Bulge]

VOTE: teeeeegeeeeepeeeee

[The Bulge]

that's a bold opener from shelly (heh)

[The Bulge]

pooky if you're town fypov shelly is scum but also limming shelly scum kills a townie resulting in a conftown (you), two townies, and one maf

hmmmm shelly is wrong about not voting pooky from her pov but i don't know if it's scum wrong or just wrong

I'm not sure how important povs are to consider here. from each of their town!pov, the other is confirmed scum. but it's not like they will automatically ignore the rest of the players' povs, which is that it is probably not optimal to elim between the doctors today.

[The Bulge]

so like a vote on the other means nothing, because a vote is not an elimination. it's only fishy if one of the clones is actively pushing for the other's elim d1, but even then idk if I'd believe town or scum would be more likely to be tunnel-visioned in that scenario.

[The Bulge]

VOTE: hellbooks

[The Bulge]

yea I'm not a fan of the way she's approached the you v pooky at all

[The Bulge]

i think that shellys opening move, while one definitely wants to believe it is town, is definitely within realm of possibility 4 scum. especially since a gutsy move is rewarded with victory if scum shelly wins the 1v1

ths progression is meekly pooky / gloria disassociative -> in other news i'm trending gloria town anyways so have an UNVOTE:

this is all she has said about it. the first one is awkward and fencesitty and the second looks like it could be an actual slip yea

shellyyyyyyyyyyy

[The Bulge]

how much should we talk about tomorrow before crossing that bridge

[The Bulge]

that's a pretty good list and basically where I'm at, outside of pooky's lonely little hellhole down there in your confpile

[The Bulge]

This is early and weak but very slight tl on Bulge.

I don't see the point of making this post if not to pocket me which would be a weird fucking way of doing that, and I really don't think "rvs wifom points" is a move the scumbuddy makes in this setup

[The Bulge]

hellbooks what do you think of shelly's claim?

[The Bulge]

thank you that answers my question lol

[The Bulge]

any thoughts on gloria's lack of setup knowledge?

[The Bulge]

the way I see it is that this is a highly mechanically-intensove setup for scum, but not so much for town. there was a whole phase for scum to discuss the setup, ask questions, and formulate a gameplan, meanwhile we have limited info to work with, especially today. obviously this is typical of the game of mafia (informed minority vs the uninformed majority) but in this setup, scumbrains come into the day fresh off of a mechanics discussion and has more of that focus in mind. Now I would hope townies would make an effort to understand the setup as well, so anyone feigning a misunderstanding should have their setup hiccups evaluated for wifom.

[The Bulge]

that said, I don't think gloria is faking here.

[The Bulge]

Both you and Shelley are masters at deepwolfing

uh, what? lol

tgp did you think gloria was implying they could both be scum? either way, do you have any scumreads? iirc you were the first to suggest limming outside of the two clones.

[The Bulge]

the townie on your wagon unvotes

this logic implies that shelly is scum (?)

I was specifically referring to either you or Bulge. I’m still not sure on which on Pooky/Shelley yet but Brooks!town looks possibly good for Pooky and possibly bad for Shelley.

So, I’m asking you if you are the town, assuming Brooks flips green, to possibly reacess if you really think she is scum here. I’m kind’ve getting a bad feeling about her flip now and if she’s town, we need to try harder to solve this.

@Bulge, please read, assuming Brooks flips town, if you are the townie (between you and TGP) on her wagon, because I’m having doubts on her flipping scum now.

I'm not sure I follow. are you backing down, or advocating for following through with the lim regardless of expected alignment for info?

[The Bulge]

bulge
gloria
booky

lets vote shelllly-scum

thx

if you think tgp is the partner, why shouldn't we from our pov elim them first for the chance at instawin and avoid the possibility of instalose?

[The Bulge]

Because I might be wrong and then Shelly will have upper hand vs me on d2. If we elim Shelly first I am IC tomm

hellbooks is the only unconfirmed player who has left themself open to eliminating within pooky/shelly today

[The Bulge]

is that @ me or shelly?

[The Bulge]

i'll do setup spec later, but we should probably avoid limming in the dr hideyoshis unless there is a strong consensus townread or scumread on one of the two, because it's an instaloss if we're wrong without a guaranteed win if we're right.

You under no circumstances should be voting either Pooky or Shelley today or you’re killing a town scientist!

it is probably not optimal to elim between the doctors today.

that's my point. until now, that was only implied by the fact you never said anything on that matter.

[The Bulge]

obviously the ideal play for scum is to try for an elim on the real hideyoshi. you are the only player of the 4 who has not closed that door for themselves today.

[The Bulge]

the townie on your wagon unvotes

this logic implies that shelly is scum (?)

I was specifically referring to either you or Bulge. I’m still not sure on which on Pooky/Shelley yet but Brooks!town looks possibly good for Pooky and possibly bad for Shelley.

So, I’m asking you if you are the town, assuming Brooks flips green, to possibly reacess if you really think she is scum here. I’m kind’ve getting a bad feeling about her flip now and if she’s town, we need to try harder to solve this.

@Bulge, please read, assuming Brooks flips town, if you are the townie (between you and TGP) on her wagon, because I’m having doubts on her flipping scum now.

I'm not sure I follow. are you backing down, or advocating for following through with the lim regardless of expected alignment for info?

I’m asking you to re-evaluate if you really think Brooks is scum because I would like us to ideally scroll who actually is the scum out of the three of you. Iow, I’m not confident on it being Brooks anymore. In fact I’m leaning away from that.

Why is hellbooks town now? obvtown even you're saying? I don't see where you've given any reasons besides it being a "feeling", and I thought you had fair reasons for scumreading her in the first place which you have not addressed?

ugh i mean 217 and 218 townie

So you agree with me then on Brooks town?

So, who is the scum between TGP and Bulge do you think?

But Shelley is agreeing with me on town!Brooks and I think the safest thing is to figure out who’s scum. between Bulge and TGP.

I’m thinking Bulge looks better but you forget that Shelley reconsidering on Brooks doesn’t make it obvious to me which one of you/Shelley is town, so best strategy is to lim the scummier of Bulge or TGP because we will have one less player. Could be me, could be Brooks, could be whomever’s town between TGP/Bulge.

I don't like this leading question in 229. I'm not gonna start calling everyone out for speaking from their own "I know my role pm" pov, but the presentation here is icky. The "could be me" thrown in after it all stands out a lot to me to as like (bear with me here) distancing from your distancing of the hellbooks wagon you started.

[The Bulge]

Brooks is seriously so obvtown here. @Brooks, What do you think? I’m leaning TGP over Bulge but we can find this out pretty easily.

i think bulge's play has been waaay more careful so im inclined to think that's scummy but its hard also omg look at us!!!

More careful than what? tgp's 9 posts?

[The Bulge]

my vote remains.

[The Bulge]

my vote remains.

217, 218 and beyond. Maybe it is you because instead of re-evaluating you throw shade at the onr person trying to stop this.

you still haven't explained how you're so sure, while you had no problems giving reasons for why books is scum before the gamestate changed to where it is now. It's like you slowly built up a trajectory and then when the gamestate no longer suited, you had to dismantle and distance. I could see this being intentional to get a read from me and tgp but I don't believe those were your intentions.

[The Bulge]

why are 217 and 218 so solidly town to you?

[The Bulge]

what do you think re-evaluate means? I've read what's in the thread, I don't see how it points to obvtown, and books isn't here right now for interactions. I have a pending question to her. are you just going to shade me for not agreeing with you?

[The Bulge]

You have yet to give adequate reasoning for backing off. if i can determine that you have a towny mindset then i might be inclined to trust you.

[The Bulge]

what do you think re-evaluate means? I've read what's in the thread, I don't see how it points to obvtown, and books isn't here right now for interactions. I have a pending question to her. are you just going to shade me for not agreeing with you?

Okay, tell me why her most recent posts don’t strike you as townie? Shelley specifically mentioned 217 and 218 as being townie but I think that’s true for most of the posts which followed as well.

If you tell me why you think my tr on Brooks is wrong, that obviously isn’t scummy but you auto shading me for this is seriously pinging.

What? I asked you why those posts strike you as townie and you didn't answer me. I can't answer this question because they simply do not strike me, I was never talking about those posts. How can I evaluate or refute your points if you do not explain them?

You have yet to give adequate reasoning for backing off. if i can determine that you have a towny mindset then i might be inclined to trust you.

Why would scum!me, scum!anyone try to stop a miselim on a slot they tr? What is the possible scum motivation in that? You obviously know from thesetup that me and Brooks can’t possibly be aligned, so in what world do you vuew this as scum indicative?

The only possibility I can make sense of is if you didn't want to have your name tied to the wagon you started once she started obvtowning fypov. I can't trace it to a particular motivation but the way you did a 180 on the wagon once it became a real possibility was jarring compared to your play leading up to it (which I townread). I don't know what to make of it, and obviously I think it's more likely hellbooks is just scum, but it's bothering me.

This is what is making absolutely no sense to me @Bulge. If this was a setup where me and Brooks could possibly be aligned, your suspicion on me would be a lot less weird but since you know that’s impossible, how in the actual fuck do you see any possible scum motivation in that?

You either think after re-reading Brooks’ posts that I’m wrong or you see what I’m talking about and think I’m right.

I don't see what you're talking about, all you have said about hellbooks since dropping your SR is that her reactions are obvtown and that everyone on her wagon should reassess.

But bothers me, is that you immediately decide to shade me rather than try to re-acess Brooks. Why are you more concerned with solving me than the slot that’s very likely about to die?

The last sentence confuses me. If you're resigning to her elimination here, why do I need to solve a slot that's about to flip? Sorry if this is just semantics, I don't want to misunderstand what you're saying.

Why shouldn't I be concerned about a slot I thought was super townie in the first half making weird shifts in momentum?

[The Bulge]

But bothers me, is that you immediately decide to shade me rather than try to re-acess Brooks. Why are you more concerned with solving me than the slot that’s very likely about to die?

Connotation-wise, "shade" sounds to me like a way of describing a push you don't trust, whereas "solve" implies a more honest attempt. do you agree?

[The Bulge]

Gloria you've avoided answering my questions and elaborating on why you did a 180 on hellbooks. Why aren't you acknowledging the possibility that you were doing it for town cred? if pooky is town then it's worked, you've pocketed him. you didn't do anything serious to stop the hellbooks wagon or try to convince us to vote elsewhere, only to "re-evaluate", and it's all looking very performative the more I reread it.

[The Bulge]

Your whole play since halfway through yesterday has been about causing a fuss about the hellbooks wagon going through, but why would you refuse to explain yourself if you really wanted me off the wagon? why would you ignore my questions?

[The Bulge]

You know that this isn’t true. Wtf did you expect me to do here? We needed 4 - count ‘em - 4 votes to get the wagon off of Brooks and the fact that you are pushing me over TGP is extremely telling because you know that TGP is an easier miselim than me.

telling of what? I have no idea what you're getting at here. why would I go for a less easy miselim?

You’re progression on my slot has been hella weird. You not only refused to reacess Brooks but you shaded me for trying to stop her wagon. TGP has been extremely transparent and there’s a damn good reason Brooks voted you over them. “Careful” is what she called you iirc.

Once again, I never "refused" to reassess her. I didn't see what you were getting at, and you wouldn't help me to understand. I'm constantly reassessing everyone because that's how the game of mafia is played, and I didn't see anything that told me she couldn't be scum. stop telling people to "reassess" when all you're really saying is "say you agree with me".

how is the way I've been playing "careful" compared to tgp lol. They have 23 posts of unaggressive questions, uncontroversial pushes, not to mention barely being active in thread or engaging anyone. I was the only person pushing a universal tr. you shouldn't blindly follow dead townies' reads if their logic does not hold water.

Scum doesn’t want me anywhere near Elo. Do you think scum!TGP would be this ridiculous? TGP knows they have 0 chance against me in Elo, that’s why Bulge wants to get me out of the way but isn’t voting me.

He isn’t even remotely suspicious of TGP. Only me. Wtf does that tell you?

uh... what?

also when did I ever say I wasn't suspicious of tgp? they've barely done anything. it's not like I was casing you, I was engaging you on points I didn't understand or that I thought were scummy. tgp has nothing to respond to, and iirc they have also left a question or two of mine unanswered. I haven't given any conclusions anywhere so I'd appreciate if you'd stop putting words in my mouth and making assumptions about my reads and intentions.

[The Bulge]

That’s my goddamned point. He has said absolutely nothing about TGP at all and instead of trying to re-evaluate Brooks, he shades me for trying to stop her wagon. In what world does this ever come from a townie mindset?

TGP is obvious town and Idk how you’re not seeing that but I unvoted because it’s Elo and it’s possible - extremely unlikely though imo - that I could bd wrong here but very much doubt it - because Bulge’s tone is seriously off where as TGP’s is extremely transparent. I really don’t understand how you’re not seeing this?

Gloria you know today TGP v Bulge is 1v1.

TGP knows today is 1v1 TGP v Bulge.

But Bulge doesn't know it.

Why doesn't bulge know it?

If you think I'm scum with bulge dont you think I tell him what the game state is?

If you think shelly is scum with bulge, don't you think shelly tells him what the game state is?

Bulge not knowing where the game state is, means its likely he is just completely clueless/lost - which is more likely of townie than scum at this point.

up until tgp voted there was nothing gamestate-related fmpov to differentiate between tgp and gloria. how the fuck does that make me clueless of the gamestate? just because you disagree with my suspicions?

nothing he's done this game makes any sense

I'm not in the fucking mood for this again.

[The Bulge]

I still don't think gloria is conf fmpov if shelly is the partner and was not online, but I think it's unlikely gloria would throw down the second vote on the wagon without waiting for her partner. the only thing that's not possible in this scenario is a pooky/gloria team.

VOTE: tgp

[The Bulge]

oh what the hell

i thought shelly was doing an original bit with that opener hahahahaha

ok yes sry Gloria

[The Bulge]

VOTE: shelly

[The Bulge]

lol I think I gave pooky a heart attack with my gloria spat

[The Bulge]

gg all! was a pleasure playing with you all and I hope we meet again. Thank you Hectic for your VCs and Isis for the wonderful setup and flavour!

[The Bulge]

and pooky, of course. thanks for not disowning me!

[The Bulge]

do Discord chatlogs get released or how does that work? I explained my reasoning there for some plays that otherwise probably looked pretty questionable lol

[The Bulge]

if it's a hassle then dwai unless it's what The People want

[The Bulge]

nooooo gloria you played well, our wincon from decently early was to win you over (obviously I didn't get that memo until later lol)

[The Bulge]

I hope nobody ever actually underestimates pooky