Micro 994 | Brass and Shrapnel | Game Over!

[Flea The Magician]

KABOOM.

VOTE: ejjinami

Terrible support. no heals.

[Flea The Magician]

I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.

Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.

[Flea The Magician]

All the females are town automatically as per the RC gambit

*Moves the gender slider from 85% female to 95% female*

weirdly worried about raya versus ejj being tvt though, i don't sr either of them after reading their exchange.

We're page 2?

Idk, personally too much wifom about the 1 scum or no kill for me to be happy with that plan. Mafia no kills and then we're just picking off our vigs because we assumed mafia had no reason to no kill.

All kills will be claimed though. If we go through with this mafia have no choice but to have 1 claim vig and the kill or else we have a bunch of confirmed townies. Unless they're assuming there won't be many vigs that aren't blank and they're ok with that amount getting confirmed. Then they're obvious targets for the kill because they're confirmed town and also confirmed not to be bombs.

disagree but let’s just see how it goes then. Discussing mafia actions that haven’t happened yet is not a good idea

ejj is town hehe
T bone is scum hehe

wild guess: if saudade is scum, it probably isn’t with T-bone

this looks kinda dumb as for bussing

RVS? Like we're WAY too early to be building connections and anit-connections.

I'll join you here. That statement made no sense. VOTE: Nepenthe

This wolfie has sheeps clothing!

[Flea The Magician]

the rest just doesn’t exist

Well someone doesn't believe in fairies.

I'll join you here. That statement made no sense. VOTE: Nepenthe

and that’s how a wagon, with even less reasoning than my vote on kop, forms.

Not opposed, you just likely won’t get anything from that. This is not a good reason to lynch a player who’s at least trying to progress the game

Nothing wrong with some pressure and 2 votes is better than 1

*Taps the pressure gauge and squints at it*

乁༼☯‿☯✿༽ㄏ

eh, lemme maybe say it differently.

Reading experienced players based on 1 post is near impossible... SL them, they’ll answer in any sort of longer way, people will say that “eh, it’s ok” and change votes.
I’ve seen this happen many times and I really doubt it will be different here. Placing pressure on a player you aren’t actually ok with lynching doesn’t really help at the beginning of the game

The fact that I’m pushing kop doesn’t mean that I think he’s scum either, more like: he’s a good target to vote, who scum could actually get worried about and I don’t mind getting rid of him myself.
Even if there’s a quickhammer for some reason and this flips town, we don’t lose much.
This could MAYBE pressure scum to reveal some sort of agenda if he’s not town after all

For the same reason I’d be willing to give raya and virgo a pass (not because I think they’re town, just because they contribute enough to either be sortable later on or to get night-killed)

flea might be a good target to vote as well as they sort of contribute but sort of don’t. Might become readable with some pressure.

Focusing on a player who won’t get lynched will do absolutely nothing.
Pressuring the slot? yeah
Just place the vote somewhere else, there’s no need to focus on them only

Admitting votes are just pressure never works.

Also, keep dreaming. (◍•ᴗ•◍)❤ This is literally just me. I AM DA FLOOF!

[Flea The Magician]

You don't want me as a mason buddy, trust me xD

[Flea The Magician]

Fair, you were warned.

*Climbs in T-Bones pocket and starts sipping tea happily*

[Flea The Magician]

the point i was making, for those who missed it as well as those who committed quickly to misunderstanding it on purpose, is that it's concerning to me when i see people i both perceive as town putting pressure on each other. it feels like wasted energy fmpov. AMA!

You're going to have to walk be through this. This is a little early for those kinda town reads I think... What posts from each made you think they're like solidly town?

[Flea The Magician]

the point i was making, for those who missed it as well as those who committed quickly to misunderstanding it on purpose, is that it's concerning to me when i see people i both perceive as town putting pressure on each other. it feels like wasted energy fmpov. AMA!

You're going to have to walk be through this. This is a little early for those kinda town reads I think... What posts from each made you think they're like solidly town?

[Flea The Magician]

OK Ya'll want mech spec, lets do this.

Setup:

• 2 Mafia Goons
  
• 3-5 Vigilantes OR Blank Vigilantes
  
• 2-4 Bombs OR Supersaints

Mechanics

• 25% chance of 3 Vigs (50% Blank Vig) and 4 town roles (50/50% Bomb or Supersaint)
  
• 50% chance of 4 Vigs (50% Blank Vig) and 3 town roles (50/50% Bomb or Supersaint)
  
• 25% chance of 5 Vigs (50% Blank Vig) and 2 town roles (50/50% Bomb or Supersaint)
  
• Mafia has a factional Roleblock OR a factional Doctor protection (as well as the group kill). One member may choose to perform both the NK and the Doc/RB choice.
  
• Vigilantes will not be informed whether they are a blank or not.
  
• Bomb will kill any player who successfully shoots it at night (unless protected by a Doctor action). A
• Bomb cannot be roleblocked.
  
• Supersaint will kill any player who hammers it during the day.
  
• Mafia wins endgames where they control 50% of the town UNLESS the remaining townie(s) is a Bomb, in which case it's a tie.
  
• Mafia has daytalk
  
• Mafia can not self-target

Role PMs:

Spoiler: Mafia Goon

Mafia Goon

• Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a
  Mafia Goon
  , along with your partner, [Player Name].
  
  
  Abilities:
  
  
• Factional communication: You may talk with your partner Day and Night, here: [QuickTopic link].
  
• Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partner may perform the factional kill.
  
• Factional ability: Each night phase, one of you or your partner may also perform a Doctor save OR a Roleblock.
  
  Win condition:
  
  
• You win when you control the majority of the town or nothing can prevent this from happening.
  
  Confirm by replying with your role and alignment.

Spoiler: Town Supersaint

Town Supersaint

• Welcome, [Player Name], you are a
  Town Supersaint
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  
  
• If you are lynched during the day, the player to hammer you will also die.
  
  
  Win condition:
  
  
• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one town player is still alive.
  
  Confirm by replying with your role and alignment.

Spoiler: Town Bomb

Town Bomb

• Welcome, [Player Name], you are a
  Town Bomb
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  
  
• If you are successfully shot at night (Blank Vig targets don't count), the player to shoot you will also die.
  
  
  Win condition:
  
  
• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one town player is still alive.
  
  Confirm by replying with your role and alignment.

Spoiler: Town Vigilante

Town Vigilante

• Welcome, [Player Name], you are a
  Town Vigilante
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  
  
• Each night phase, you may attempt to shoot a player in the game. There is a possibility you are a Blank Vig.
  
  
  Win condition:
  
  
• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one town player is still alive.
  
  Confirm by replying with your role and alignment.

[Flea The Magician]

I hate when I do that... bear with me.

[Flea The Magician]

2 mafia - With (doc OR roleblock) AND KILL.

We go on averages for Town.

We have 4 vigilantes, 2 are blank. On top of that we have a total of 3 REFLEXIVE Fuck-you-and-the-horse-you-rode-in-on town roles.
Bombs SHOOT BACK.
Saints ARE A DOUBLE LIM.

Bombs are a threat to mafia, as are vigilantes. The threat of supersaints stop quickhammers.

Bombs will not return fire past the MafDoc Protection but can't be blocked.

There's NO WAY AT ALL a massclaim is beneficial to town AT ANY POINT pre-5p.

Yes but the point is, the true vigilantes will know they are blanks right after shooting, but when claiming it, they can't back the claim up so it still doesn't progress us any further forward and we're left aiming at a pool of claims to sort through and giving scum a path of where they can shoot within because they will know who the real vigilante is, and what pool the doctor, bombs, and supersaints are in.

This is a scumslip. VOTE: Kop

Based on this I'm willing to project Scum do not have a roleblocker. Vigilantes are advised to be careful with their shots, only if it's a 90% scumread should you shoot.

We can't project on town, we shouldn't project on town. Scum do not have that information, we know what we know and that's that.

All peachy? Super.

[Flea The Magician]

Yes but the point is, the true vigilantes will know they are blanks right after shooting, but when claiming it, they can't back the claim up so it still doesn't progress us any further forward and we're left aiming at a pool of claims to sort through and giving scum a path of where they can shoot within because they will know who the real vigilante is, and

what pool the doctor, bombs, and supersaints are in.

This is a scumslip.

How is that a scum slip?

Lets face it, I'm just the bomb

[Flea The Magician]

I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.

Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.

vigs are ICs as long as the mafia kill is identified.
As long as everyone claims their shots right after making them and there’s still 1 left for mafia, those who claimed will have to be town

But the problem being with that is, the fact that we have blank vigilantes who can't back anything up, so it's easy for scum to say they are a vigilante but then claim they must be blank, we aren't then any further forward whether to believe a claim.

For example you can have 4 people claim they shot 4 different people, but all 4 are alive, the 4 claimed vigilantes then can say they must be blank vigilantes and we're still in the square one situation.

So at the current moment, I'm saying a mass claim isn't going to be helpful, it'd probably won't be helpful until at least the last day when numbers are really low.

I've just read the setup and realized that there isn't a town doctor, I just automatically assumed there was a town doctor. I didn't realize that scum had a doctor or roleblocker.

Read enough of it tho

[Flea The Magician]

ah the good ol' no pressure claim. (*・艸・)

Cute.

Why assume there's a town doc in this setup? You know what you signed up for I assume?

[Flea The Magician]

Grrrrrr. ◖⚆ᴥ⚆◗

[Flea The Magician]

ah the good ol' no pressure claim. (*・艸・)

Cute.

Why assume there's a town doc in this setup? You know what you signed up for I assume?

I assumed that there is town doctors in most setups, thought it might have been the same in this setup.

you... you joined in 2013...

Do I actually gotta go dig in your games? sheesh.

[Flea The Magician]

You've too much experience just from a quick look to use that excuse

*does the happy dance*

[Flea The Magician]

My last game was participated in 2019, it's been a while. You can read back through my games by all means.

Your last 3 games on site didn't have a doctor role

[Flea The Magician]

Forget masons hydra with me the rest of this game.

I am no where near normally this good.

This is a straight up anomaly lol.

[Flea The Magician]

Forget masons hydra with me the rest of this game.

I am no where near normally this good.

This is a straight up anomaly lol.

Starting to not like this slot tbf, this reeks of LAMIST

*yawn*

If you say so.

*Yeets a fairy cake at MV... and squeals when it screams on impact*

My last game was participated in 2019, it's been a while. You can read back through my games by all means.

Your last 3 games on site didn't have a doctor role

This is actually sampling bias, if you're using this to shade them I am on to you >:(

- JV

Using the last 3 games of a player on site to check for mechanical information is not sampling bias. The assumption was "there is always a doctor role". The games sampled were of different categories, including a micro.

By all means, be on to me <3

---

Anyone not reading the game, should read the game. Honestly. It's 7 pages, there's no excuses.

*coughcough*

Saudade

*coughcough*

[Flea The Magician]

im not reading your mechanical speculation bullshit

You realise it can be a legit scum hunting method?

Noted, regardless

[Flea The Magician]

You should still read it, as far as I'm concerned it's RVS-ending and contains a serious vote

[Flea The Magician]

is... is this a challenge? :3

TLDR is I caught a scumslip and poked the offender, who didn't react as I'd expect.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm still not fully convinced this is a scumslip. I think the possibility of a genuinely confused townie is there. What's throwing me off is the claim. Especially where he supposedly is against mass-claiming, I don't see why he snuck a claim in.

I wasn't entirely convinced it was a full slip myself,but ya know, D1 you need something to poke at. The claim and later justification attempts kinda sold me on it though.

VOTE: t bone

*Swats from pocket*

[Flea The Magician]

is better vote trust me

Why is it?

[Flea The Magician]

I imagine if it was a scumslip his partner is staying on the quiet side about it. It would look bad for them to defend him but his partner might also be unsure about bussing yet

I mean it's a pretty solid catch given the interactions that came after it.

I'm happy to dive more games and see just how many had a doctor role.

It's one of those things where frankly, we need to demand an opinion from everyone on.

Yup, if you're not of an opinion, you're avoiding at this point. That was a straight up RVS breaker.
Like I don't care if you have a contrasting opinion, I just care you have one and vocalise it.

But even the basic setups like the normals don't always have doctors

Majority of the basic games have doctors.

Not that I'm aware of, even our newbie games often don't have a doctor.

Like straight up if you're not engaging that slip and the interactions after, I at least want a rough reads list. We don't hammer this yet either.

[Flea The Magician]

I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.

Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.

vigs are ICs as long as the mafia kill is identified.
As long as everyone claims their shots right after making them and there’s still 1 left for mafia, those who claimed will have to be town

But the problem being with that is, the fact that we have blank vigilantes who can't back anything up, so it's easy for scum to say they are a vigilante but then claim they must be blank, we aren't then any further forward whether to believe a claim.

For example you can have 4 people claim they shot 4 different people, but all 4 are alive, the 4 claimed vigilantes then can say they must be blank vigilantes and we're still in the square one situation.

So at the current moment, I'm saying a mass claim isn't going to be helpful, it'd probably won't be helpful until at least the last day when numbers are really low.

I've just read the setup and realized that there isn't a town doctor, I just automatically assumed there was a town doctor. I didn't realize that scum had a doctor or roleblocker.

Read enough of it tho

"not reading setup" isn't a good defense here.

[Flea The Magician]

I know you feel like this is about you atm (for obvious reasons)...but it actually hasn't been about you since Flea's initiation of the issue.

That said, the information is helpful

[Flea The Magician]

and I can understand why kop might've thought that was aimed at him tbh.

[Flea The Magician]

Using the last 3 games of a player on site to check for mechanical information is not sampling bias. The assumption was "there is always a doctor role". The games sampled were of different categories, including a micro.

Except yes it's sampling bias regardless if the result is correct, which I don't know. If you've played around twenty games, with 15 of them having Doctor's in them. Yet the last three games do not have doctors. That's sampling bias

- JV

I ain't diving though 3 years worth of games to eliminate this. If kop is willing to provide me a time frame I can reference then Ill be happy to look and compare.

[Flea The Magician]

Procrastination at it's finest:

Spoiler: Kop Doctor Games

LN223 - no doc
MN2095 - no doc
Mic880 - no doc
Mic879 - no doc
LN221 - no doc
MN2038 - no doc
MN2024 - no doc
O735 - no doc
Mic809 - DOCTOR
Mini1990 - no doc
Mini1956 - Sort of doctor
O717 - DOCTOR
O716 - no doc
O712 - DOCTOR
O710 - no doc
MN1984 - no doc
O705 - no doc
O707 - no doc
O697 - no doc
O696 - no doc
O693 - no doc

I think that should be enough to say that Kop should not be assuming a doc role and it's no longer sampling bias

I fucking love you.

[Flea The Magician]

whats all this doc scumslip event

It's almost like someone's been trying to get you to READ THE GAME... wow.

[Flea The Magician]

Why not? early D1 its an amazing lil chonk to push and pressure on? And they've kinda not done much else this day. we're 11 pages in to D1 we should all have some decent level of interaction at this point and at least one or two solid reads to be playing around with.

what's stopping you pushing on this interaction? or forming other interactions instead of being super passive?

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: nepenthe
actually this

idk maybe this
VOTE: nepenthe

Yes, this is most convincing.
Elaborate for me would you?

[Flea The Magician]

I give you permission and won't claim you're confirmed scum if you do it.

There.

Why though?

[Flea The Magician]

N_M's rep reached me long ago, like the moment there's a clear E-1 that lolhammer is going down.

Like even I know that, and that N_M should be treated as an automatic frikken hammer...

and I'm pretty sure I'm like the newest player in here

[Flea The Magician]

N_M's rep reached me long ago, like the moment there's a clear E-1 that lolhammer is going down.

Like even I know that, and that N_M should be treated as an automatic frikken hammer...

and I'm pretty sure I'm like the newest player in here

Okay but why do you have a problem with your top scum read getting limmed? So what if Not_Mafia hammers at E-1?

I don't, however, I do have a problem with closing the day early. The more time we get to talk and interact, the more chance for slips and behaviour analysis, connection and anti-connection building.

The ability to talk is our greatest weapon. ending the day early removes that from us.

For example...

I think if there was scum on me, it'll at least be one of them, with one avoiding the whole scenario. That would point me in the direction of Saundae. Who is simply avoiding the whole thing trying to push something else without any sustance.

I want some reads from Sundae and some mutual reads from MV.

[Flea The Magician]

All 3 on Nep, why are you voting there?

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: Saudade

Sod it. I think this is a buddy.

Refusal to engage with ANY of the Kop shenanigans, refusal to do anything useful, nep vote is a pressure vote on an inactive playe trying to get a town read when there's more than enough of us here to interact with.

Boom.

Lets do this.

[Flea The Magician]

I mean my vote is aimed to do several things, which it did.

If I'm somehow a town leader, we're screwed. Just saying.

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: Kop

yeah lets do it, he's not even tracking the game at this point otherwise he would've seen the inactive player call out.

I got what I needed out of today, and as much as ya'll are willing to let me get.

[Flea The Magician]

Honestly at this point, we're at a full stall. I reckon we need to do this.

[Flea The Magician]

Prod dodge!

Will be catching up later <3

[Flea The Magician]

If that's the case, I feel like Flea might be a good elimination today. They only keep it the same if we were on the wrong course yesterday.

I just feel like Flea might have become something like a leader and probably would be the person happiest with no real change due to a night kill. It was also a kill off wagon, so there's likely at least one scum on wagon.

VOTE: Flea

I REALLY don't want to be a town leader, thats the thing. I have too little confidence in my game to take such a position and after driving the miselim yesterday, I certainly don't want to be in that position again.

Claiming will help nobody at this point, D1 will be reviewed because I know there was scum on that early.

I'm actually happy to drop a VOTE: T-Bone at this point prior to that.

[Flea The Magician]

I actually quite like Raya's thinking, T-Bone has outgrown his walker...

VOTE: saudade

The posts there aren't sitting right with me.

[Flea The Magician]

If that's the case, I feel like Flea might be a good elimination today. They only keep it the same if we were on the wrong course yesterday.

I just feel like Flea might have become something like a leader and probably would be the person happiest with no real change due to a night kill. It was also a kill off wagon, so there's likely at least one scum on wagon.

VOTE: Flea

I REALLY don't want to be a town leader, thats the thing. I have too little confidence in my game to take such a position and after driving the miselim yesterday, I certainly don't want to be in that position again.

Claiming will help nobody at this point, D1 will be reviewed because I know there was scum on that early.

I'm actually happy to drop a VOTE: T-Bone at this point prior to that.

You're not ever the town leader, at least in my eyes as I think one of Brass/You is scum as I've said earlier.
Although I do agree that mass-claiming only benefits scum.

Why T-Bone though? That seems somewhat retaliatory.

- JV

I was the D1 driving force, even a reluctant leader with reluctant followers is still a leader.

T-bone doesn't seem to have done much independently yesterday imo. Today he's doing a little better but I think this is a good vote for now.

[Flea The Magician]

vla due to pain flare becoming unbearable and i'm pain med stoned to feck.

[Flea The Magician]

ok ngl I have no freaking memory of this game rn.

Soursausage doesn't seem sincere in his last post.

I still like Raya, I need to reassess T-Bone... I actually quite like MV...

[Flea The Magician]

I'm asexual, no thanks <3

[Flea The Magician]

Still here. bRASSHERALD still scum

PROOOOVE EEEEEET

[Flea The Magician]

I'm just going to claim now since we are at NM-1, I'm a soup Saint. So like town hammering me is a really bad idea

OK so who do you want to hammer you, and who do you think is scum?

Also I'm pretty sure as known as NM is, they ain't the type to potentially self hammer... right?

[Flea The Magician]

why are you talking to your scum partner outside of the private mafia meeting flea

Because you're responding here instead of prodding me in there like you have been doing. We really gotta work on our bussing.

Also supersaint is what mafia should be claiming right?

Yup, that's the only "safe" mafia claim at this point.

[Flea The Magician]

@MOD V/LA update, pain flare has mostly passed, however health is still unstable. I'm going to try and be fully active, but meds posting is as it does

Rephrase, I don't want to risk minivirgo getting limmed if we're wrong about Brass

Why?

Either I hammer scum or I die to a super saint, shouldn’t you be happy either way?

tbf that's a ballsy way to go out.

A fairy does die every time I hammer

(O.O!!)

[Flea The Magician]

If we're not in any different position come me waking up tomorrow then I'll do NM-1.

That said, this is a corker of a stall.

[Flea The Magician]

Nothing at all? No counter wagons? No even a resilient fart in the wind?

Well 12 hours later, I'm not happy about this and treating it as a hammer
VOTE: brass even though we're after deadline. Didn't realise it was that soon.

[Flea The Magician]

There's no counter wagon because I'm town where once again no one will listen to me because of "reasons" for scum reading me.

The reason that's in quotes is because there are no reasons.

I'm fully anticipating your town flip, and will be poking the voters on you.

[Flea The Magician]

Hmm.... that's interesting...

[Flea The Magician]

"because fuck the vigs"

That was mean xD loved it though, the pace was a little slow but was a beautiful game <3