Micro 1013: IMoA [game over!]

[Moongrass]

VOTE: ta vera

[Moongrass]

Hi ta vera. May I ask for some of your opinions now?

[Moongrass]

ta vera/VFP.

Is it too soon to call a scumteam? *giggle*

Pedit: your feelings about everyone so far?

[Moongrass]

Is it too soon to call a scumteam? *giggle*

I like your thinking.

You like that the two people who voted for me I am now calling scum? Hmm.

[Moongrass]

How do you feel about ta vera, VFP? Do you like them for town?

[Moongrass]

moongrass: to be determined. hearing why you scumread me would help in this department.

You are the shadow behind town, always present but never really there. I don't see any original thoughts considering your activity which gives me a sense of you trying to blend in rather than trying to solve. It even seemed awkward when I shined a light upon you.

[Moongrass]

What?
Can you elaborate.

I've never seen the 2 opening posts be scum voting together.
I've never seen someone scum pair 2 players voting them in the 2 opennig posts.
This is not a common thing, neither a common thing to push. Therefore, it's outside the box thinking.

Commonly, scum being within me or ta vera would be thinking in the box.

I think I'm falling for town you.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: sigmund
hey!!

Also, this is such an easy vote it's laughable.

[Moongrass]

I think Sigmund is town for all the reason's you're frustrated with him Mr. NEE.

[Moongrass]

I've just never known this to be a successful scum strategy. How would you manipulate the town to do your bidding playing like that? It's a lose lose strat.

[Moongrass]

I've just never known this to be a successful scum strategy. How would you manipulate the town to do your bidding playing like that? It's a lose lose strat.

I have killed nine townies in a row once.

It was glorious.

Consider my eyebrow raised.

[Moongrass]

Maybe his eyes are watering at the fact that he has an alt tunneling him and no means to repel it since you're needling him for no given reason.

[Moongrass]

Both your votes were very lowkey. Your first vote on me in rvs "because wagons are good" and your second vote on Sigmund "hey" are very unoriginal and seemingly opportunistic in timing.

[Moongrass]

I think Sigmund is town for all the reason's you're frustrated with him Mr. NEE.

Have to be careful with secret alts - I think there are a lot of players capable of playing like this for 'fun' knowing that it is somewhat likely to be townread in this way.

exactly

So you agree with your scumread you aren't voting?

[Moongrass]

ta vera/VFP.

Is it too soon to call a scumteam? *giggle*

Pedit: your feelings about everyone so far?

we're not. why do you think so?

could you respond to this please?

I wanted to engage both of you and accelerate the game out of RVS. Job well done if I do say so myself.

[Moongrass]

Interesting.

[Moongrass]

The drama between Norwegian and Sigmund is very odd. Though I would be impressed in the unlikely scenario where they are scum hard distancing early.

I don't really have much to comment on until the inactives participate.

[Moongrass]

Maybe his eyes are watering at the fact that he has an alt tunneling him and no means to repel it since you're needling him for no given reason.

ok but why would he care if he's at 1 vote?

Being annoyed about how someone is approaching you is not really dependent on the number of votes. I do agree that he is "overreacting" but continuing to approach him the same way isn't going to get him to calm down and perhaps be more readable.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: VFP
I'm breaking up with town you.

[Moongrass]

greetings.

why is it that i only ever seem to replace into datisi's games these days? i guess they've just always got the best playerlists (or the only ones with people i know) and i get lucky in checking the replacement thread.

Is this the infamous greeting tell?

[Moongrass]

You may be thinking of Mbaki being Eddie Cane in the game you modded 2046. I'm noone interesting.

[Moongrass]

It's a fluff post imo.
ta vera seemed scummy on my first read but their vote on me is ballsy and VFP looked pretty happy jumping on my broomstick so join me?

[Moongrass]

I have already had this asked and answered. I don't know why you would play any kind of way as either alignment and find those kind of questions unproductive.

[Moongrass]

It's just the feeling I had, if I wanted to put in the effort of creating a case I would have. I'm not that interested in pursuing you lol.

[Moongrass]

Don't worry about your read on me, it will become more obvious as the game progresses. I'm more interested in people coming out of the shadows. This is a relatively slow game so a back and forth between us would just encourage others to hide behind it instead of participate.

[Moongrass]

Nsg any thoughts on Sigmund tunneling your slot before rep in?

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Iconeum

Hey all. It’s good to be here.

Have you flaked or was the joy of being here overwhelming?

[Moongrass]

or what, I don't understand. Clearly I haven't even attempted to get involved in the game yet, unless you think that I'm SO bad at it that I literally went to post and couldn't come up with ANYTHING.

This reminds me of someone...who did turn out to be scum...

[Moongrass]

Why is northsidegal town?

the rage rep-out with r-word slurs thrown in my direction are highly town indicative

Lmao.

[Moongrass]

This reminds me of someone...who did turn out to be scum...

Who?

I'm not going to say but they know who they are.

[Moongrass]

I already said that I needed to reread the thread because the content has been so dense. I haven't found the mental energy to do that yet.

I'll summarize for you.
- ta vera vs Moongrass
- Sigmund vs Norwegian.
I changed my mind on ta vera and Sigmund made Norwegian ragequit and now we have nsg.

That's basically it.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Something_smart

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Something_smart

why have you left vfp?

SS seems something_suspicious to me in his defense. I am not townreading VFP if that is what you're asking. You seem to be defending my suspects today. How do you feel about SS?

[Moongrass]

I agree with the scummy Poppins and anti-dense theories and find it odd that you've put more energy into defending yourself rather than commenting on the game so far when you claim you have no time. Also, why are you taking Sigmund seriously enough to feel like you have to defend yourself? Feels like you know they're town.

[Moongrass]

Lol Poppins. Also I did read and comment on the game; I only had one thing worth noting, which was that Norwee was town. Nobody asked me to elaborate on it.

Why wouldn't I take someone else scumreading me seriously? Even if Sigmund is scum, I want to make sure that other people aren't swayed by him (really, I want that regardless of his alignment). And forcing him to justify himself more will help me (and others) read him.

I don't feel like you're forcing much justification tbh. I mean, he basically death tunneled your only town read like a troll. How do you know he's not just trolling you too?

[Moongrass]

Also I did read and comment on the game; I only had one thing worth noting, which was that Norwee was town. Nobody asked me to elaborate on it.

Why do you need to be asked? You didn't think that Norwegian could have used some elaboration?

[Moongrass]

Uneven is the towniest player in this game lol.

[Moongrass]

Why PoE when you don't even have a read on Iconeum or Andres? Seems a bit hasty for you.

Their thought process is very original and lacking any kind of agenda. I am not concerned about them at all.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: VFP

why?

RVS is a vehicle to get us somewhere and 'don't ask questions' works opposite to that somewhere, which was more to go off of than 'greetings tell' in the case of Andresvmb.

Like how innocent and adorable is this post. Taking a joke into straight seriousness.

[Moongrass]

You're right it's a toss up between Sigmund and Uneven. I also may have seen something you missed so you may want to look again.

I have no idea why you're PoEing early unless you've decided that their meta says they are always VLA as town

[Moongrass]

Like how innocent and adorable is this post. Taking a joke into straight seriousness.

do you consider this strongly town-indicative? if so, why?

No, just more indicative than what is on the market currently, as you can see it's a pretty low bar.

[Moongrass]

No? I just thought it was out of character. I'm not worried about being limmed I just don't understand how PoE can work unless you have eliminated all the potential non-scum. I guess I can see what you're trying to do though.

[Moongrass]

Why do you need to be asked? You didn't think that Norwegian could have used some elaboration?

Nope. I've found it's easier to start conversations if they start with someone asking someone else to explain a read in more detail.

Or maybe I'm just lazy. It's probably some of both, to be honest.

Ok, I'll bite. Could you please elaborate on your Norwegian read?

[Moongrass]

I felt his 55 was a rhetorical and leading question. What are your thoughts on ta vera?

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Something_smart

why have you left vfp?

SS seems something_suspicious to me in his defense. I am not townreading VFP if that is what you're asking. You seem to be defending my suspects today. How do you feel about SS?

other than myself, what other suspects have i been defending?

ss seems fine. i don't scumread what other people are scumreading about him. other than that, he hasn't said much to read him off of.

VFP - though that was before they were my suspect. It was back when others were scrutinizing them. My note is that you have defending someone on record more than once now.

[Moongrass]

You even defended Norwegian is a less direct way but voting his troll. I guess we could call that 3 strikes.

[Moongrass]

What are your thoughts on ta vera?

She feels pretty reasonable, but nothing really stuck out much. Hard to evaluate since she's both reserved and an alt, and the lack of avatar doesn't help.

Reserved? I think your adjectives need some work.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: VFP

why?

RVS is a vehicle to get us somewhere and 'don't ask questions' works opposite to that somewhere, which was more to go off of than 'greetings tell' in the case of Andresvmb.

Like how innocent and adorable is this post. Taking a joke into straight seriousness.

not seeing how this is town.

It is very early solving in more than one direction which tends to be more town than scum imo.

[Moongrass]

I think it's pretty accurate.

About as accurate as this game is dense I suppose.

[Moongrass]

You even defended Norwegian is a less direct way but voting his troll. I guess we could call that 3 strikes.

what does all of that mean to you?

It's noteworthy for now.

[Moongrass]

one of those directions, the 'greetings tell', is a very easy observation to make. i think about the so-called greetings tell everytime i see someone say hello in a mafia game

Yes, that was Uneven's point.

[Moongrass]

one of those directions, the 'greetings tell', is a very easy observation to make. i think about the so-called greetings tell everytime i see someone say hello in a mafia game

Yes, that was Uneven's point.

it hardly counts as multiple directions.

I guess we notice different things.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Andresvmb

[Moongrass]

It'll be a dull game if it's as simple as Andres/VFP.

[Moongrass]

I think uneven, sigmund and ta vera are town. Including myself that's 4/9.

Iconeum, VFP and Andres are MIA.
Iconeum I can probably assume is town because I feel they would have made more effort as scum.
VFP I like for his questioning of ta vera defending them but didn't like him waiting until I voted there to vote ta vera.
Andres I think is trying to make a presence but failing miserably, unlikely that's AI, more from him would be appreciated.

And I don't know how I feel about SS and nsg yet.
nsg is maybe town but tbc. SS I still don't buy as town, hopefully time will tell.

[Moongrass]

I think uneven, sigmund and ta vera are town. Including myself that's 4/9.

Iconeum, VFP and Andres are MIA.
Iconeum I can probably assume is town because I feel they would have made more effort as scum.
VFP I like for his questioning of ta vera defending them but didn't like him waiting until I voted there to vote ta vera.
Andres I think is trying to make a presence but failing miserably, unlikely that's AI, more from him would be appreciated.

And I don't know how I feel about SS and nsg yet.
nsg is maybe town but tbc. SS I still don't buy as town, hopefully time will tell.

lots of your reads are based on people's effort or related concepts. i don't know if this means anything.

Feel free to provide reads of your own.

[Moongrass]

Iconeum is a 0 effort player regardless of alignment but if you push him he will just OMGUS shit tunnel you for the entire game

Challenge accepted.

[Moongrass]

Seriously though, is Iconeum that low effort as scum? That would be really unfair to a scum buddy.

[Moongrass]

I think it doesn't really matter either way. It would be nice to see some other thoughts when they're back from VLA. If I was scum reading based on activity alone Andres/VFP would be more suspect than someone who has been VLA since game start imo.

[Moongrass]

It's over and we know it's you.

[Moongrass]

I'm pretty impressed with my town read on you being based on literally nothing.

[Moongrass]

I'm pretty impressed with my town read on you being based on literally nothing.

why do you keep saying things i don't understand?

Instead of being constantly irritated by you, I'll explain more clearly for you in logical order:

1: I town read Iconeum for being VLA
2: Iconeum posts and looks town
3: Yay for moongrass!

[Moongrass]

that's right

I've never felt more repulsed.

[Moongrass]

This reminds me of someone...who did turn out to be scum...

Who?

I'm not going to say but they know who they are.

bullshit

now you got caught out and can't answer something you faked in the first place?

VOTE: moongrass

I was being polite.

[Moongrass]

Andre is there anything in particular that made you choose Iconeum? Any kind of read there at all?

[Moongrass]

why is an RVS vote bad?

It wasn't an RVS vote. Her RVS vote was on me. Votes after content are usually for a reason and thus are not random.

[Moongrass]

why is an RVS vote bad?

It wasn't an RVS vote. Her RVS vote was on me. Votes after content are usually for a reason and thus are not random.

also why are you answering for andres?

I'm defending myself from your ignorant slander. If you're going to call my play out as terrible, I'm obligated to call the kettle black.

[Moongrass]

If you don't know how to read outside one post to understand the context of said post then you're likely mistaking the piece for the puzzle. It's frustrating dealing with this kind of play, please bring back Iconeum from 2019.

[Moongrass]

Is there anything specific you would like a response to? I don't get the impression you're interested in reading me.

[Moongrass]

Is there anything specific you would like a response to? I don't get the impression you're interested in reading me.

what gives you that impression?
i've barely entered the game

Your summary of my posts.

I'd like to be more direct, is there anything in particular you feel I haven't answered?

[Moongrass]

do you think my scumread on you is bad, Moon?

do my points not hold up according to you? If not, why?

I can understand why I'm being scumread by ta vera and yourself. Your points don't really seem like points as much as they seem like like gotcha moments and needling.

[Moongrass]

nah nothing specific actually

i feel most of your jabs are unfounded or opportunistic
don't really see your townread of uneven

general disagreement with your posting

I actually think my posting has been the opposite of opportunistic, except perhaps where I did agree with the scum reads on SS.

There are moments right from page one onwards that give me good feelings about uneven. I do believe all content is readable even in the so-called rvs phase. I am terrible at translating what I see into something digestible to others, particularly when I'm not yet confident with my reads.

[Moongrass]

as far as needling goes
yeah absolutely
it's my favorite method of obtaining reads

I get it.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Moongrass E-1

I love killing people.

I missed this...

[Moongrass]

Why did you vote me there Sigmund?

[Moongrass]

Sigmund's vote of Iconeum was oddly timed if the vote on me was intended to be a reaction test. I'd expect the vote on Iconeum immediately after Iconeum unvoted me, not when Iconeum calls out Sigmund indirectly by asking for my take on it.

So, if it's not a reaction test then it was intended for my elim. At the point Sigmund voted for me I don't believe he had foreseen Iconeum unvoting me mid 1v1.

Andre had put me in his scumpile so there was potential for a quick elim...opportunistic indeed.

VOTE: Sigmund

[Moongrass]

Why did you vote me there Sigmund?

generate information

if i'm lucky maybe you die and flip red

What information would you expect to get at E-1 that you couldn't get at E-2? If I had been forced to claim that would narrow the pool for scum, so that move was at best anti-town.

[Moongrass]

Sigmund might just be town troll shitpushing, but VFP acting like they jokingly "agree" is sus.

In hindsight I find this post quite town indicative.

So town:
Uneven
Nsg
Ico
Ta vera

Unsure:
Andres
SS

Not town:
VFP
Sigmund

[Moongrass]

imagine thinking I even read what ICO does

If you're observant enough to notice when the gamestate is benefitting scum, then it's likely you're playing up this troll business to suit what you do and don't notice.

[Moongrass]

Why did you vote me there Sigmund?

generate information

if i'm lucky maybe you die and flip red

What information would you expect to get at E-1 that you couldn't get at E-2? If I had been forced to claim that would narrow the pool for scum, so that move was at best anti-town.

lol at claiming e-1 and e-2 are the same thing

I didn't? I'm saying the only difference is you're likely to muck things up at E-1. If I'm not under pressure at E-2 you're not going to get anything more from me at E-1.

[Moongrass]

i literally said I love killing people

There are better games to satisfy your sadistic tendencies.

[Moongrass]

i literally said I love killing people

There are better games to satisfy your sadistic tendencies.

woah there buddy

I meant like Call of Duty...

[Moongrass]

i'll agree with you that that series of posts by moongrass was a little weird, but in general i think that scum basically never just makes up something like that.

I guess you didn't know who you were then. It reminded me of your defense as scum in TM2020 White flag.

[Moongrass]

do you think my scumread on you is bad, Moon?

do my points not hold up according to you? If not, why?

I can understand why I'm being scumread by ta vera and yourself. Your points don't really seem like points as much as they seem like like gotcha moments and needling.

did you mean can't? it looks like that by context.

No I mean can. That's why I town read you.

[Moongrass]

with sigmund in the game, we should be careful about putting people at Y-1

I am not Not Mafia

Even more reason not to have people at E-1.

[Moongrass]

I meant like Call of Duty...

sadistic is kinda far dude

Well I wouldn't call it masochistic lol

[Moongrass]

Oh ok. Could you explain how it was weird if you understood what I was referring to?

[Moongrass]

-shrug-

what's the point of even bringing it up, and if you're going to bring it up, why bother with the whole "that person knows who they are"? just seems like a weird thing to do.

I felt it incriminated SS for his behavior but didn't want to call you out directly for it. A simple note that his argument of "do you really think I'm this incapable as scum" had been used by scum as a point of defense in the past.

[Moongrass]

Those darn reasons always get in the way.

[Moongrass]

I misread and thought you did claim to be Not Mafia. I'm strangely disappointed.

[Moongrass]

do you think my scumread on you is bad, Moon?

do my points not hold up according to you? If not, why?

I can understand why I'm being scumread by ta vera and yourself. Your points don't really seem like points as much as they seem like like gotcha moments and needling.

did you mean can't? it looks like that by context.

Coming back to this, would you mind elaborating on your read of me aside from not understanding me?

[Moongrass]

I don't actually think Sigmund is scum even if I'm annoyed at his careless voting.

VOTE: VFP

[Moongrass]

Moon loses town points for not scum hunting at all and just trying to coast the day.
Opportunist voting?

@Moon

do you have an update of 434

Why did I have town points?

I find it odd that I'm being accused of coasting with opportunistic voting when I have been the most targeted player, the most active player and I've provided two sets of updated reads compared to your trolling, lack of engagement and no reads of substance.

If you're looking for a non-suspicious way to hop on my wagon, there isn't one for you.

[Moongrass]

Ico what are your thoughts on Andre? Do you find his passivity to your needling indicative at all?

[Moongrass]

VOTE: ta vera

Waiting on your response. You seem more interested in people's reads on you than your reads on them which seems like you're not interested in solving. I thought your push onto me was town indicative however you have just sat there happily in my blind spot shading me at each opportunity rather than trying to figure out my alignment. I found it annoying, now I find it scummy.

[Moongrass]

if everyone votes norwegianboy i can figure out who his partner is by what sound he makes when he breaks

could you say something about me please?

Yeah I was just skimming her ISO. It seems fine, I'm literally stumped with the lack of content to narrow down teams.

VOTE: VFP

[Moongrass]

Didn't mean to quote there.

[Moongrass]

Updated:

Uneven
Ta vera
Nsg
SS
Sigmund
Ico
Andre's
VFP.

it's unlikely Sigmund is partnered with Ico.
Andres/Ico could be interesting but I'm not sure Ico unvotes me as scum.

[Moongrass]

do you think my scumread on you is bad, Moon?

do my points not hold up according to you? If not, why?

I can understand why I'm being scumread by ta vera and yourself. Your points don't really seem like points as much as they seem like like gotcha moments and needling.

did you mean can't? it looks like that by context.

Coming back to this, would you mind elaborating on your read of me aside from not understanding me?

that's the next item on my agenda.

Answer this first please.

[Moongrass]

If you didn't do a post of your reads I'd have you as scum now for trying to dodge the question.
Also I don't need to have reasons good or bad if I want you eliminated.

You're dodging mine. Yes you need reasons whether you're scum or not.

[Moongrass]

Can someone please link an Ico scum game?

[Moongrass]

You're dodging mine. Yes you need reasons whether you're scum or not.

I didn't take your question as serious since I said early on I like the thinking outside of the box.
Either you're not paying attention to the game or you're asking questions to look proactive. Which is it?

And no, I really don't. If I think you're scum and I can't put my finger on it, I'll vote you.

Of course you have the ability to vote me, I'm saying you need reasons to cover your own behind.

Why am I not paying attention? You're the one who has been absent and who accuses me of behavior that is clearly inaccurate.

Try again buddy.

I will say that I do like your push on nsg. I don't see scum doing that if nsg is town as they can just conveniently dispose of her N1 with no one questioning that NK.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Iconeum

You on the other hand could be suspect with that average readlist.

[Moongrass]

"I can't read half the players, someone help" seems disingenuous to me. Empty sorting, particularly from someone of your capabilities.

[Moongrass]

As a disclaimer I have not seen Ico scum though.

[Moongrass]

You have this image that I'm going to vote where's safe or care about a retaliation vote on me.

I care about a retaliation vote on you in coming days. You misunderstand my perspective. I don't care if I go down I care if I take town with me because they couldn't give good reasons for their vote and will be easy targets.

[Moongrass]

Let's talk as if we are both confirmed town to each other though.
What do you think of my lim pool, and what would yours be in this kind of scenario?
I think 3 names works best to match mine and I'll explain why after.

Ico, Andres, and SS.

[Moongrass]

Ta vera I don't agree with because her ISO reads town to me.

[Moongrass]

SS is an enigma to me, I'm cautious to vote him D1 because he's scummy to me all the time. This game I have found his reluctance to talk unless attacked and his lack of sorting scummy. I find the same is true of Andre.

VFP what are your thoughts on Ico?

[Moongrass]

I'm having trouble following the thread of this game, that's definitely true. Not totally unhappy with my reads though. (Ta vera and nsg as townreads, Sigmund and Moongrass as townleans.)

Can you try voting one of your non town reads?

[Moongrass]

Before this, SS looks to be heading into a direction and after, it feels something changed and SS lost interest.

I found that post empty. Obviously it was a meta read, the question could be considered posting for the sake of posting.

[Moongrass]

Can you try voting one of your non town reads?

I could, but we still have plenty of time left in the day, and I'm skeptical that pressuring someone will actually make them easier to read.

It would make you easier to read lol.

[Moongrass]

when did you go from VFP at the bottom of your readslist to "i care if i take town with me"? this is a strange thing to say, even in the hypothetical where you're just talking to people as if they're town

I care about misreading people. If he is scum he has just as much reason to want to cover his tracks, that's why I said you need a good reason as town or scum.

[Moongrass]

if i thought someone were just voting me with literally no justification and they outright said they weren't going to give me one, i think that one of my first responses (and most people's first response) would be to make some sort of ruckus about how this is an obvious scum push.

That was in my first retaliation to his push on me, I told him that based on his reasoning he has no good reason to vote me. My later responses were addressing his argument that he doesn't need a reason to vote someone.

[Moongrass]

nsg I know you've worked out who I am, and if that's the case you should know I'm town by now.

If ta vera is scum then I think there's good links to nsg being her buddy.

[Moongrass]

193 never happens if me and ta vera are partnered.

Perhaps not, I have pulled similar distancing stunts in the past myself.

[Moongrass]

i find it difficult to look at the progression of someone being at the bottom of your readslist and you voting that person, to that person saying that they're going to vote you with no reason, to you voting someone else entirely, saying that you don't want to mislynch town so you'd really like reasons, and basically walking away from the conversation. i think that even the absolute most charitable players don't really tend to have progressions like that as town.

I guess you could call it a cheeky progression.

[Moongrass]

now, i could be wrong, but again i have to say it just makes it difficult for me to believe that you actually scumread VFP. instead, it seems more likely that you just wanted to disengage and vote for the easier ico wagon, for which support was building.

yeeeeeeeeeeeeees

I'm willing to build any kind of wagon I agree with. I am happy following Sigmund bounce, as you saw earlier I followed him to ta vera also but then changed my mind.

[Moongrass]

Also I'm bored can we just kill someone already

Ahahaha.

[Moongrass]

like i'm reading my iso and reading this shit push and im just cackling

why would anyone reading this absolute nonsense drivel im posting take it seriously?

FWIW I really enjoy you.

[Moongrass]

I still like the idea of an Andre Ico scum theatre team...but I know this is my bias for non-boring teams.
@Uneven what about those interactions makes Andre seem towny to you?

[Moongrass]

nsg to help me sanity check my town read of ta vera, could you shed some light on your town read there?

[Moongrass]

Every time I engage with VFP I get town feelings but I'm like a needy girlfriend who thinks he's scum everytime he's away from me.

[Moongrass]

I still like the idea of an Andre Ico scum theatre team...but I know this is my bias for non-boring teams.
@Uneven what about those interactions makes Andre seem towny to you?

Look I’ll give it to you straight - if Ico and I were aligned, I let Ico take on a lot of heat, push people loudly, and stay out of it. Knowing how they play as both alignments, I know they like to get down and dirty as Scum, and can be super loud and convincing as Town. I see no need in trying to fake a fight D1 with them unless I really felt there was a need. And since the wagon is mostly being pushed by me, what need is there?

I like your thoughts in SS - do you think an SS/Ico team is possible?

[Moongrass]

And to back this up, look at Ico’s reaction once I start SR’ing their slot (they were Scum): viewtopic.php?p=12680887#p12680887. They’re perfectly happy to engage in fights and go hard against folks pushing their slot. Just keep that in mind.

My bad feels of Ico started when he changed directions on my slot pretty rapidly while throwing Sigmund under the bus.

[Moongrass]

aggressively fighting their execution but is that just Scummy instinct?

What game are you reading? Lol

[Moongrass]

And to back this up, look at Ico’s reaction once I start SR’ing their slot (they were Scum): viewtopic.php?p=12680887#p12680887. They’re perfectly happy to engage in fights and go hard against folks pushing their slot. Just keep that in mind.

My bad feels of Ico started when he changed directions on my slot pretty rapidly while throwing Sigmund under the bus.

you mean when i started townreading you after we had an engagement?
where exactly is my scum!motivation in that lol

I think I did point out earlier that I'm not sure scum you does that. It's more how easy it was to get you to turn around. What I remember of you is an over-paranoia dominating player which didn't line up with how quickly it took me to get you on my side.

[Moongrass]

Right... I think I need to reread your progression on me. I'm not sure it was really that disposable.

[Moongrass]

I think I've settled on Ico being my D1 lim.

[Moongrass]

I think ta vera doesn't really know where to go from scum reading me.

[Moongrass]

I think I've settled on Ico being my D1 lim.

why weren't you scumreading me when i made the townread on you, but all of a sudden it's become scummy?

I'm easily distracted by shiny things.

[Moongrass]

And UneveN feels like Town to me too. So that leaves Ico, VFP, and Moongrass. Which explains my vote.

I think you nailed it on your first read.

[Moongrass]

I was in the middle of reading VFP’s ISO yesterday and I fell asleep.

So you voted VFP for being boring?

[Moongrass]

It would make you easier to read lol.

How so? Don't you have experience with me?

Well in a hypothetical world where we make it to Lylo together, I'd get more info from VCA if you actually placed votes. The alternative is reading the whole game back which seems painfully unnecessary.

After some skimming of your ISO I do lean more town than scum on you.

[Moongrass]

I'd get more info from VCA if you actually placed votes.

Is that true though? I feel like I vote scum at about the same rate as both alignments.

There's more information to be pulled from votes in hindsight than their accuracy. But I'm not in a teaching mood and rather we start consolidating on some reads.

[Moongrass]

But not if the votes are arbitrary and just made because someone else asked me to vote.

Like in general you may be right, but I don't think so in this case.

I don't know why I suggested it. I regret it.

[Moongrass]

However, if nsg is strongly convinced on moongrass, I'm happy to sheep her D1 as I generally think she has a better read-rate than I do

She doesn't actually think I'm scum and will most likely move her vote elsewhere by day end.

Lets say you're right. Who is Sigmund's buddy?

[Moongrass]

vote count 1.08

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-01 17:15:00).

execution

Moongrass [4]:

ta vera, northsidegal, Iconeum, Sigmund

VFP [1]:

UneveN

ta vera [1]:

VFP

Iconeum [1]:

Andresvmb

Andresvmb [1]:

Moongrass

not voting [1]:

Something_Smart

mod notes

~ iconeum v/la weekends
~ vfp vla from covid jab

flavour

Spoiler:

vote count 1.15

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-01 17:15:00).

execution

sang froid [3]:

VFP, Sigmund, Iconeum

Moongrass [2]:

sang froid, northsidegal

VFP [2]:

UneveN, Andresvmb

Iconeum [1]:

Moongrass

not voting [1]:

Something_Smart

mod notes

~ iconeum v/la weekends
~ sang froid is the new ta vera

flavour

Spoiler:

These two VCs are the most interesting imo. I highly doubt that the wagon on me consists of entirely town votes. I'm not certain if it's likely there are two scum votes on me but if that were the case I'd suspect the later two who also now appear on ta vera's wagon.

An interesting note is that Sigmund has voted every slot except VFP, Andre and Uneven. I town read Andre for their interactions with nsg, I also townread Uneven. I don't think this is evidence of scum Sigmund in isolation however if VFP does show up red I think it would be hard to keep town reading Sigmund.

[Moongrass]

I don't agree with your take on Sigmund's push of SS. I think Sigmund's point that scum don't do anything to rock the boat in favorable conditions, does hold some weight. It would be an odd point for scum Sigmund to make as a fake reason to push SS when he was pushing Norwegian for no reason earlier and he easily could have done so again. A low content game does favor scum and Sigmund interjecting to create readable content gives Sigmund town points there.

[Moongrass]

I guess the problem with catching up as a replacement is you miss the large gaps of silence and game stalling. It would make more sense if you had seen it play out in real time.

[Moongrass]

I like Andres for town mainly because I don't think Andre outs their main to nsg as scum. Why would you give nsg more info to help read you when you're trying to evade her as scum?

[Moongrass]

It's possible that Andre provides a game to read that they're emulating here as scum, but that seems a little far fetched.

[Moongrass]

Sang seemed so nice when they repped in lol.

[Moongrass]

nsg
ico
moongrass
VFP

S_S

andres

uneven
sigmund

I agree with most of this except your two scumreads need to swap places with Ico.

[Moongrass]

nsg do you enjoy being so admired that you get to top fanbois readlists with minimal effort? I imagine it would get tiresome.

[Moongrass]

Sang seemed so nice when they repped in lol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

I intend to continue to be nice to anyone who’s conduct indicates that that’s a good idea!

I'm not sure how that philosophy has any relevance to what you're doing but it was a nice skim read.

[Moongrass]

Yes sang, you are intelligent. Could you please redirect this bulging brain power towards other scum reads? If you are killed N1 (unlikely) it would be nice to see you dig into other players instead of watching you bang your head against a brick wall. Thoughts on SS, VFP would be more useful than Sigmund who never end games as scum.

[Moongrass]

Why do you say Sigmund never endgames and what in his 120 posts of fluff do you think makes him town?

Ok so if we work backwards from a hypothetical lylo, I can't see any reasonable player eliminating anyone over Sigmund. Even in the worst case scenario of a VFP, SS, Sigmund I don't see Sigmund saving his bacon has scum. If he does end up in Lylo it's more likely he's town being setup for a MisLim.

I don't strongly townread Sigmund but I feel he is engaged in a way that I think is more likely town than scum. As I was pointing out in your catch up, there was no reason for him to push the game in a new direction when the game seemed to be heading into a gladiate between our slots. I do agree that his change of direction just after nsg's entrance doesn't look good, but later posts like "can we just kill someone please" tend to come from impatient town rather than untactful scum ineffectively bulldozing the game.

I don't believe he poses any threat as scum and I would be more concerned about his partner if he is.

[Moongrass]

I should have previewed that post, sorry hope it's readable.

[Moongrass]

I do agree that his change of direction just after nsg's entrance doesn't look good

what r u even talking about.

I pushed norwee for a reaction

I got my reaction

the reaction reads as highly town indicative.

why would I continue to push on?

this is absurd

Yes I get what you were doing, I can also see the other POV.

[Moongrass]

Dude I know you feel bad about Norwegian, but you don't need to twist my words like that. I'm not agreeing with the whole push on you, just seeing that the timing could look suspicious. Tbf you left your vote on Norwegian after the ragequit and only really moved after nsg repped in. And before you repeat yourself again, yes I know you changed your mind because of Norwegian's reaction, not the nsg entrance.

[Moongrass]

pretty sure i know who you are now, but unfortunately i'd still slow down on you saying i don't scumread you. my reads were kind of thrown up in the air yesterday but i'm still not really convinced on you being town

I guess it has been a while. I'm not scum. Can we work together now?

[Moongrass]

btw you should go to costco and buy a mirror it'll help with your scum hunt

Is it bad that I found this really funny?

[Moongrass]

I did warn sang about the head banging. You know that feeling you get where you're super mad and sure the other person is scum, that usually means they're town.

[Moongrass]

Btw can you ask dats for like a 24 hour extension just to see if we can get it

Who was that directed at nsg? That read like a post for a PT.

[Moongrass]

I presume almost certainly at me, as the most recent replacement.

That makes sense.

[Moongrass]

Btw can you ask dats for like a 24 hour extension just to see if we can get it

Who was that directed at nsg? That read like a post for a PT.

Directed at sang. PT slips as a hypothesis should basically always be discarded, as I said earlier in my PT.

Lol.

[Moongrass]

Sang can you talk to me more about your Ico progression? Like why did the posts you highlighted made you confident in Ico town?

[Moongrass]

Okay, I should go.

nsg, if I can’t sell you on Sigmund by EoD would you be willing to compromise on uneven?

And moongrass, could you elaborate further on uneven and why you think he’s town? Also, could you answer the question on what changed your mind on Sigmund to move him from the top of your reads (at the point of page 10) to the bottom (by the end of page 20)?

Uneven and I have a special connection. I can soul read them, so it looks absurd when I try to put it into words.

Sigmund had just put me to E-1.

[Moongrass]

Moon, question on your progression here - did you townread me when you explained to me why you thought uneven was the towniest in the game?

I was hoping to determine if you were town. I had you in a possible team with ta vera after you responded.

[Moongrass]

Okay, moon. Say we're both town, and sig is town, Andres is maybe town, and uneven is town. Let's just say that's the case. Who's scum?

VFP/Ico

[Moongrass]

Is that why you said the same thing to ta vera?

Yes. I was disappointed that you didn't get I was referring to, but I think that helped me to town read you.

[Moongrass]

I knew you before you were famous (jk)

[Moongrass]

Why does scum Ico unvote me when Sigmund pushes me to E-1 as scum? Is it to get off a wagon that's going to bite him in the ass if it flips with no counter? That's the only reason I can think of. If I'm wrong on either Ico or VFP then it's probably SS.

[Moongrass]

Grats on the maker. I can't drink coffee because of the taste. I enjoy
tea and find chai tea latte is a good substitute when meeting with friends for Coffee...well it's more respectable than ordering Hot Chocolate lol.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: VFP

[Moongrass]

No you.

[Moongrass]

Yeah vote VFP so we know you can't hammer.

[Moongrass]

Oh please, like you wouldn't hammer if you had the chance.

[Moongrass]

willing to compromise to sang froid.

Why do you think they're scum?

[Moongrass]

nsg would you mind sharing your reads on Andre and ta vera/sang?

[Moongrass]

I felt the 1v1 with Sigmund was strongly TvT just based on tone. Ta Vera was my first gut read for scum which is usually something I listen to so I'll reread those isos.

[Moongrass]

No not down for limming sang today.
VOTE: Iconeum

[Moongrass]

I think Sigmund is Town. I heavily dislike that they pushed Norwee out of the game, but Norwee and I have historically clashed but still, that was tough to read. I will believe the meta claims that Norwee would not get so easily upset as Scum and rage quit - I also think that’s unlikely and from my experience with them they react differently when under pressure and not Town (I played against them when they were SK).

I don't like this post. It feels like waffling to make an obligatory read or two. When I weigh the reasoning for Andre's reads I actually find they come up lighter than they appear. I find it suspicious that the strongest townreads mentioned (twice) are Uneven "feels towny" and SS "played like me when lost" with the amount of more readable content produced by other slots. This townread of Uneven is more suspicious than any other scumread on them.

I also found their interactions with nsg, 655 659 660 to be quite manipulative, pressuring her into townreading Andre because of her reputation. I don't think it's a coincidence that nsg is the only person Andre seems to care about getting a townread from, when she would be generally considered the strongest town player here.

Andre's cool, calm, collected demeanor may have us hoodwinked. If so, likely partnered with SS.

[Moongrass]

I can compromise on Andre. Uneven would you?

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Andre
I'm going to bed. There better be a rolling head in the morning.

[Moongrass]

< 26 hours amigos.

[Moongrass]

It's possible that Andre provides a game to read that they're emulating here as scum, but that seems a little far fetched.

And where did this go? You’ve been reading me as Town most of the game and now you want to blow me up without me actually being that present.

I think your lack of presence is what makes me question your alignment repeatedly and after reading your ISO for the 5th time I think I'm starting to see how your motivation could be coming from a scum perspective.

"What about your read on x" isn't really a convincing argument on why I might be mistaken. I'd find it more helpful if you addressed my concerns directly or explained your townread on unknown a bit more.

[Moongrass]

Like I'd be generous and give you the benefit of the doubt with the "early reads" claim if you had actually developed on them or provided some other evidence of sorting slots beyond your entrance posts.
"Nsg is town because of Norwegian ragequit" and "Moongrass town because aggressive" just seem like lazy, easy reads.

[Moongrass]

Claiming that all of your analysis is going to be surface level is Scummy - I know you can do a lot better than that.

I know, I’m being somewhat vague about how I feel about players but I don’t know that I have much to say yet. For those of you who don’t know me, I’m a bit of a slow starter. And I already know my early reads are bad so there’s that too.

Scum tend to pick out reasons to scumread town based on their own self-awareness in my experience.

Andre accuses Ico of providing excuses for subpar townplay but provided a similar smokescreen himself.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Iconeum

Hey all. It’s good to be here.

If I'm right about Andre, consider this proof that the "greetings tell" is very much alive.

[Moongrass]

It has here, perhaps before your time.

[Moongrass]

I'm noone interesting but I've loved mafia for a long time.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: andres

Don't expect big reasons
I rmember him being strange agzos me in repliezand. Just
Whayzvze


Yeeet

Lmao

[Moongrass]

Andre any claim?

[Moongrass]

That explains a lot.

UNVOTE:

[Moongrass]

Although why would you be concerned about NSG voting you if you are neighbours? It doesn't make sense to me.

[Moongrass]

Reading not voted sorry*

[Moongrass]

That explains a lot.

What does it explain?

Nsg's read progression on Andre.

[Moongrass]

I know you don't care much about this game Andre, but out of the votes that came onto you today which ones would be the most suspicious to you?

[Moongrass]

And it’s been relatively quiet to be totally honest, since I don’t know if I can trust NSG.

I think it's likely one of you two are scum based on mechanical reasons I'm not going to discuss today.

[Moongrass]

That explains a lot.

UNVOTE:

So does being a neibour make Andre town here for you?

Not necessarily, but I'm going to pause to reread with that new information to see if it makes a difference.

[Moongrass]

@nsg thoughts on Andre please?

[Moongrass]

I actually think that out of the two nsg is more likely to be scum based on her approach to townreading Andre vs Andre's interactions with her. I also think this is nsg's scum meta, however I'm aware that is the weak part of my read considering it's 2 year old meta.

I have knowledge of a masonry existing in this game, now it would be hugely unbalanced if there were also a neighbor PT with two town players in it because once the neighbors townread each other it's effectively a double masonry in the game with 4 pseudo confirmed town. Therefore, in the name of balance it's likely that one of the two neighbors is scum and if it were Andre they would not have claimed their neighbor because if we did elim nsg at some point down the track it would mean Andre's head when the masonry is discovered.

[Moongrass]

If it were Andre, NSG would have likely been on board with his lim.

[Moongrass]

I don't have much hope on getting a CFD wagon onto nsg today though.

[Moongrass]

SS your thoughts? IIRC you love to talk mech spec.

[Moongrass]

the strength in a masonry is mostly the confirmed aspect, not the communication aspect

I didn't say it was the same I just don't think it's balanced if there are two town neighbors when there is also a masonry.

Direct quote from wiki:
"in the hands of skilled players a Neighborhood can function either as a Masonry (if both players are town) or a directed Cop investigation (if one is not town). In the hands of unskilled players, Neighbors are virtually useless."

You obviously have superior experience when it comes to game balancing, but from my personal PoV if I were scum in a game that had Mason's and two town neighbors in a PT that would seem really unfair and town sided unless there were some kind of scum scum skill to kill a whole pt or something.

Speaking of scum being more likely to have knowledge of town roles, this is why I found Ico suspicious, due to his suspicious mentions of masons twice in his early ISO. It looked like fishing to me.

[Moongrass]

{moon, sang, vfp} is i think my primary lynchpool, final answer for today

Thank you for claiming scum.

[Moongrass]

Challenge accepted.

VOTE: nsg