Micro 1051 | Minimalist Micro Normal | Postgame

[Wallflower]

wassssssssss
up?

VOTE: the worst

[Wallflower]

ooo subliminal, I like it

[Wallflower]

Hello folks.
VOTE: Wallflower

Oi!

You wanna piece o' me???

[Wallflower]

On the next episode of Minimalist Mafia…

Is Tracer Bullet Pooky or not Pooky?

What

is

the optimal vote count format??

Will scumhunting ever occur???????

Stay tuned to find out!

[Wallflower]

I will fix up the VC format when I get back from school. Thanks for the advice.

You’re a gem

[Wallflower]

wait you're NOT pooky?

Yeah.
Them having Pooky’s discord link on their profile page is just an coincidence i’m sure.

total coincidence

It was never there to begin with iirc

[Wallflower]

But do you beetle the juice?

[Wallflower]

time for my first way too early readlist

Also I disagree. The worst is scum.

[Wallflower]

VOTE: Tracer Bullet

Time to get the maracas out!

[Wallflower]

Actually my vote was silly, NEVER MIND

UNVOTE: Tracer Bullet

[Wallflower]

My spidey senses tingled

[Wallflower]

What's wrong with silly votes Wallflower?

Well honestly silly votes are my favourite, but now that we’re onto it, the reason for my initial vote was I thought Tracer’s play was scummy, but then I realised that Tracer probably would have realised their profile was a giveaway if they were scum right? Like pregame their partner would have totally been all like “bee tee dubs your main is showing” and while some sort of faux uninformed act could totally have happened, I don’t think tracer says “it’s my first game on site” in a blatant lie like that if theyre scum that knows their identity is caught out. I think scum don’t like to lie if they know that everyone knows their lying. It would feel super uncomfy to Tracer-scum I reckon

Anyway now I’m uncomfortable that I’ve spent so much typing about the whole alt thing

But uhh yeah

[Wallflower]

Maybe, but I guess what I’m saying is that I think it would have been done in a different way if Tracer were scum?

Not enough for me to conclude that they’re town, but enough to give me pause.

Also, magazu is probably just scum

[Wallflower]

Idk maybe you’re overthinking it

[Wallflower]

Ok the fomo is hitting hard now

[Wallflower]

Also, magazu is probably just scum

Citation needed.

[Wallflower]

I mean if you want to act like you have a reason to throw shade then share. Else concede you don't and get some dirt on me, Scum!Me has plenty

You seem bothered

[Wallflower]

Also interesting that you’re going all in on me for it and not Tracer.

Think I’m the easier target huh?

[Wallflower]

Your very casual about casting shade after saying you dislike frivolous votes.

I don’t think I said that

Also isn’t this a game about casting shade?

I am confuzzled

[Wallflower]

This is a game about deducting alignments (if you are town)
This is a game about deceiving others (if you are scum)
The way you are playing as of now tends toward the latter.

Thank you for letting me know, I’ll stop now.

[Wallflower]

No, you should keep going.

I was joking dw

[Wallflower]

Okay, attitude aside, I am a bit concerned by Megazu’s play. Before honing in on me, the play seemed like benign contributions that seem safe and weren’t really NAI but compared to other people looking more town, placed Azu further down the list.

The difference in treatment of me vs. Tracer was interesting but could probably be explained by scumreading me. I still like to think it’s because they’re scared of Tracer but not me, but I guess time will tell.

My initial reaction was yuck to the doubling down on the scumread of me, despite it having been partially based on a post they misread, but maybe scum would do more face-saving hmmm.

TW, what do you think of Ircher’s cheerleading? Does that line up more with Ircher scum or town?

PEdit: it is… like… page 6

[Wallflower]

This is a game about deducting alignments (if you are town)
This is a game about deceiving others (if you are scum)
The way you are playing as of now tends toward the latter.

Thank you for letting me know, I’ll stop now.

The problem isn't shading others but having reasons gives both weight to shade/scumreads as well as allowing for more discussion. More (relevant) discussion = more information = Better odds of a town win. (in theory).

Essentially just be ready to back up your claims going forward.

Do you think I’m scum or town? From this post I can’t really tell

[Wallflower]

The eagerly awaited sequel to the best readlist ever:



VOTE: Wallflower

I shouldn’t have taken my vote off you huh?

[Wallflower]

I think I agree with Mega being town though so that’s a bit awks

PEdit: got it. Sorry about the attitude.

PEdit 2: neither truly resonated with my soul, but the former is closest

[Wallflower]

See even if I did think you were mafia, people would see my vote on you as OMGUS and not take it seriously

Or see me as someone whose opinions sway dependent on what other people think of them. (Even though that’s probably true to some extent, but ssshhh)

Now Tracer, it’s my turn. Do you actually think I’m mafia, or are you voting me for fun?

[Wallflower]

Well that’s unfortunate

[Wallflower]

See now I’m trying to work out if Tracer is actually trying to work out if I’m actually trying to work them out.

This is fun

[Wallflower]

Nervous? I’m not nervous! You’re nervous!

[Wallflower]

Well that’s nice dear.

How about a deal?

Will you vote Gamma with me?

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Wallflower]

Indeed, a decision befitting of your luxurious cape.

I was interested in your opinion of Ircher’s play around me vs. Mega though. I felt like it could be scum trying to fuel the fire, but you seem to know Ircher well.

[Wallflower]

Ok the fomo is hitting hard now

Do I know you

I don’t think so, no.

Indeed, a decision befitting of your luxurious cape.

I was interested in your opinion of Ircher’s play around me vs. Mega though. I felt like it could be scum trying to fuel the fire, but you seem to know Ircher well.

She's so fucking charming I almost unvoted her

Wouldn’t want you to give in that easily, gosh.

[Wallflower]

Happy Friday arvo RH!

[Wallflower]

Well that’s nice dear.

How about a deal?

Will you vote Gamma with me?

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

And you are doing this

why

?

You were Tracer’s other scumread so consolidation there seemed likely. Plus I think there’s a reasonable chance you’re scum? Ideally I’d like more than that, but there’s not all that much going at the moment.

[Wallflower]

Well that’s nice dear.

How about a deal?

Will you vote Gamma with me?

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

And you are doing this

why

?

You were Tracer’s other scumread so consolidation there seemed likely.

Plus I think there’s a reasonable chance you’re scum?

Ideally I’d like more than that, but there’s not all that much going at the moment.

REALLY? And yet you said nothing until the pressure was on you?
VOTE: Wallflower

Yeah

Also I don’t see your lack of being vocal as an issue or something to apologise for

[Wallflower]

People who I have as varying degrees of townread (in no particular order):

The worst
Tracer
Mega
Norwegianboy
Ircher
Something_smart

[Wallflower]

What is so woah about it? My language was pretty non-commital

PEdit: I said it wasn’t in order so I’ll leave it as a mystery

(You’re not number 1)

[Wallflower]

People who I have as varying degrees of townread (in no particular order):

The worst
Tracer
Mega
Norwegianboy
Ircher
Something_smart

hell yeah i'm someone's top townread!!!!! !!

why do you townread nor / ss?

Nor - the stubborn read on Ircher feels like townie tunnel vision
SS - their posting is conspicuously not actually contributing much, and the only real game-relevant read they’ve provided is the sort of ramble that I makes complete sense from town but probably wouldn’t be worth posting as scum.

I would still like to know what’s so “woah” about me thinking there’s a reasonable chance gamma is scum, unless it was a parody of gamma’s response, I couldn’t quite tell.

[Wallflower]

SS townvibes for me are stronger than nor town vibes, for what it’s worth.

I agree that there wasn’t anything that scummy about gamma (at least not before the response to my vote, which seemed quite overblown but I’m keen to see where gamma goes from there) but the expressed surprise is still a bit… off to me but there may just not be anything you can do right now to help me feel better about that.

[Wallflower]

It’s because I don’t townread you, isn’t it?

[Wallflower]

I see, but I also don’t

(I must admit that I sorta like the response. It’s keeping me on my toes!)

PEdit: what do you mean by “said scum!play”?

[Wallflower]

Above is all @RCE

[Wallflower]

Oh RCE is maybe town huh.

I agree with this read, but what's your reason?

[Wallflower]

Townie effort.

Is there a reason why you think that scum-RCE would not be motivated to also put in effort?

[Wallflower]

Cool! Thanks

I think the fact that the effort's on

me

is also significant. I don't think the gamestate's opinion of me is high enough that much justification for a vote on me is really needed. I could imagine everyone thinking "yeah, makes sense" regardless (an example being the worst's post).

[Wallflower]

What do you think of the worst's thoughts on Ircher?

I have also been thinking about Post 152, which seems a bit

too

much for scum? It's hard to explain.

[Wallflower]

I got some value out of Post 178, for example.

[Wallflower]

hah, that made me smile

[Wallflower]

Don’t count your mafia before they… hatch?

[Wallflower]

To be real though, I’m not sure that I appreciate the implication that anything positive I say is some sort of master manipulation tactic. I get that suspicion is a thing… but it feels… demoralising somehow

[Wallflower]

I'm also town but that should be obvious already !!

Really?

What do you think has been obviously town about your play?

[Wallflower]

VOTE: The Worst

I think it’ll be difficult for me to explain exactly so that might happen later, but this is WHERE I’M AT

[Wallflower]

VOTE: The Worst

I think it’ll be difficult for me to explain exactly so that might happen later, but this is WHERE I’M AT

don't worry, this too shall pass

It hasn't passed yet. When will it????

[Wallflower]

I may appear.. idk... worked up about things at times, but I'm not close-minded enough (nor sure enough that you're a wolf in snuggly clothing) to refuse to entertain the idea of a team without you in it. My mind is whirring, wheels turning, kitties purring... uhh never mind.

But yes where were we?

I guess my pet scumteam theory at the moment is you + Tracer. The Toogeloodle slot is a read-in-progress, but the play since Toogeloo appeared is not... hitting the expected scum vibes. Nor is it hitting the expected town vibes. But I expect town to more often behave in weird and wonderful ways that I well... don't expect, than I would expect scum to. So yeah, read-in-progress.

On that note, I could see a Toogeloo/Tracer team. Tracer's post along the lines of "does anyone actually think Gamma is town at this point" seemed premature. Perhaps buss-y?

Mega and RCE are probably the two strongest townreads for me, and every time I ponder NorwegianBoy (which is... a lot) I land on thinking that they're genuine.

S_S and Ircher are... weaker reads. I can't remember whether I said this in a previous post, but re: Ircher, if you're scum, then I have doubts over whether you would defend him so blatantly, and if you're town, then I would be inclined to trust your Ircher read. So... the likelihood of Ircher being town is high enough to justify a... townread of sorts.
My thoughts on S_S haven't really changed since earlier.

[Wallflower]

On that note, I could see a Toogeloo/Tracer team. Tracer's post along the lines of "does anyone actually think Gamma is town at this point" seemed premature. Perhaps buss-y?

You think I pressured my scum partner into jumping out of a window.

Interesting theory.

I wouldn't expect anything less from a scum partner, personally

[Wallflower]

I don't actually have any kitties. Does that affect your read on me?

[Wallflower]

VOTE: Wallflower

She's fallen off since I last paid her any attention

Stop trying to make fetch happen. It’s NOT going to happen.

Though tbh maybe it will. I DON’T KNOW OKAY.

But where’s the passion? The drive? The innate desire to find the scum and pummel them to the ground!? (Okay maybe that’s just me). It feels like you made an account with the purpose of having fun with it, and are still trying to do that except the old-school detective schtick is much harder to pull off when you know everything already, eh?

…

I think the worst or tracer is still my likely target at this point.

The worst is playing the cool, calm and collective role well, but collectivism doesn’t work when two of us are trying to kill the rest, i’n’t it?

Anyway, while all of this does actually contain the crux of the reasoning for my reads, I plan to explain my thoughts in a more palatable way tonight. So stay tuned.

[Wallflower]

Who do you want to kill?

Why do you want to kill them?

Who are you trying to persuade into killing this person?

If you want to reverse the entropy of the game state you must drive with direction and conviction.

This feels like essentially what NorwegianBoy has been asking of you.

[Wallflower]

What is your read on the worst and why do you think they are playing differently from how they would as scum?

[Wallflower]

What is your read on the worst and why do you think they are playing differently from how they would as scum?

I am incapable of scumreading Duck correctly so I am focussing on the slots that I can read.

Fair enough

[Wallflower]

VOTE: Tracer
OMGUS

I resonate with the sentiment, but this sort of makes it feel like your previous wall-quote-post was all for show.

What is your angle here? Tell me what you want, what you really really want.

[Wallflower]

Why do you think “throwing out stuff and observing the reactions around them” is more likely from scum than town?

[Wallflower]

on top of the fact the wagon on ircher was already stupid, the game has now stagnated with him as lead wagon :p who do people think ircher is aligned with? what does literally anyone think scum are doing?

The awkward part is that I agree with you about the Ircher wagon.

[Wallflower]

UNVOTE: the worst

Reading the iso again, it just doesn't feel the same as it did before

[Wallflower]

I'll vote Tracer or toog

WHO WANTS ME????

[Wallflower]

ugh wait my scumreads are the same as the worst, whyyyyy

[Wallflower]

LAST POST I PROMISE but I feel like Ircher is getting votes because his posting isn't really endearing him to anyone and that feels like sort of the opposite of what we should be voting for

[Wallflower]

The worst is playing the cool, calm and collective role well, but collectivism doesn’t work when two of us are trying to kill the rest, i’n’t it?

Restate this in English, please?

The thing that I found about the worst is that they presented as fairly chill and indifferent for the most part. I didn't get the sense that they really cared that much about reads and that sort of thing. Before the most recent string of posting, there were points where they didn't even seem that attached to their Ircher townread. At one point they voted for me, but I never got the sense that they had any reason for it, that it was something they really believed in.

Contrasting that though, there'd be parts of their play seemed intent to convey a level of scumhunt-y interest that just didn't seem to be there? Post 263 where they say that putting Gamma at E-1 is an "utterly awesome idea" seems exaggerated, and dissonant with their engagement at the time. Post 316 conveys interest in Tracer's reads list, despite not a great deal of engagement with Tracer's reads. The use of "fascinating" in Post 360 intrigues me. What is the worst even fascinated by? Their play does not give me a fascinated impression.

When I first read the string of posts 415-417 it made me doubt the read a bit, but now I've just landed back at a place of not being sure.

[Wallflower]

on top of the fact the wagon on ircher was already stupid, the game has now stagnated with him as lead wagon :p who do people think ircher is aligned with? what does literally anyone think scum are doing?

The awkward part is that I agree with you about the Ircher wagon.

why does it even matter if the Ircher wagon has stagnated?

the point of the game is to kill the mafia.

I more agreed with the worst in disliking the Ircher wagon, rather than agreeing that the stagnation was significant.

[Wallflower]

The worst, what do you think of Tracer’s recent pissy-ness, for lack of a better word. Do they seem genuinely peeved about the slow-moving game?

[Wallflower]

Eh, I’ve talked myself into it

VOTE: Tracer Bullet

[Wallflower]

I wasn’t actually talking btw, I’m on a bus rn and that would probably make people concerned

[Wallflower]

I suppose you could convince me to elim an slot that is even scummier than Ircher, but what is it exactly you think has been manipulative from Tracer so far?

All the play around me earlier was pretty manipulative tbh. Anything I did was cast as some femme fatale seduction that couldn’t be trusted, which Tracer only stopped doing when it was clear that people weren’t scumreading me anymore.

Now Tracer is essentially negging the town, in my opinion inaccurately casting the town as apathetic and unable to tie its own shoelaces. Calling the worst’s read laughably bad, for example. There’s really nothing that townie about Tracer’s play and Tracer should know that. Tracer uses the pushing of Ircher as a reason to be read as town, but as scum Tracer needs to look like they’re doing

something.

People have been looking squinty-eyed at Tracer for a while, so Tracer-scum would be at huge risk of being caught out for inaction. They tried pushing me, which made sense because my play has been strange enough that there wouldn’t be much fallout from my townflip, and then it feels like when that didn’t work, the next easy option was Ircher.

[Wallflower]

I don’t know, I think there was great expectation placed upon you before you even posted.

As for you targeting Ircher-town, I agree that it makes me slightly doubt a scumread just because I feel like you would try and go BIGGER as scum, but I don’t really know who is a bigger target other than the worst. So maybe Ircher is just the way you go as scum.

PEdit: thanks for clarifying. There was a point in the game where I felt pretty down about it and that may have come across, but know that I don’t have any hard feelings in hindsight. Right now I’m just viewing things through the lens of what I think scum would do vs. town.

[Wallflower]

To be real though, I’m not sure that I appreciate the implication that anything positive I say is some sort of master manipulation tactic. I get that suspicion is a thing… but it feels… demoralising somehow

like you literally guilt tripped me about doubting you and now you're saying I stopped doubting you because people stopped suspecting you like wtf.

Wouldn’t you still doubt me after the guilt trip though? Isn’t that what I’d do as scum?

[Wallflower]

You seem much more annoyed with me than thinking that I’m scum. The change in your vote seemed to align more with a shift in gamestate than a change in read on me.

(@Tracer)

[Wallflower]

I’m sorry for misreading your play worst. I did not consider that you may have been informed on Ircher.

[Wallflower]

asking me if I was your mommy.

I was actually wondering earlier…

[Wallflower]

[Wallflower]

duckie if I was mafia you'd be eating breadcrumbs out of my hand and asking me if I was your mommy.

did you ever find those cigarettes?

I’m sorry for misreading your play worst. I did not consider that you may have been informed on Ircher.

i believe this, fwiw. if you are mafia then you read that situation incredibly well.

I was so confused! I couldn’t work out why you were playing so weirdly. It probably wasn’t that weirdly but there was something that really didn’t make sense.
Anyway, moving on. I wonder whether Tracer’s play is actually scummy or not currently. It feels very heavy-handed if they are scum. The worst, do you actually feel like they do this as scum?

[Wallflower]

I could also vote Toogeloo

[Wallflower]

VOTE: Toogeloo

Choo-Choo!!!

[Wallflower]

Reconsidering my worst read. This play is suicide as scum, regardless of Ircher's alignment.

Wait i actually like this post.

What do you like about it?

[Wallflower]

UNVOTE:

All caught up.

Then do sumthing with your vote pal.

Maybe later.

You didn't have any thoughts to share from the last several pages?

Sure. RCE is my strongest townread. Tracer Pook is probably town too.

What has changed since here?

[Wallflower]

Probably the worst claiming informed.


Duh...

From your posting, I’m confused as to whether your read of people has any influence over your vote.

[Wallflower]

btw what's your read on SS dude?

First mademoiselle, and now “dude”???

The DISRESPECT

[Wallflower]

I was talking to Tooges

we go back decades

Oh that’s good because my read on ss is literally… *shrug*

[Wallflower]

There's like. a zero percent chance scum never touched the ircher wagon. just a reminder.

It could theoretically be, like, SS/Mega or something.

But that Ircher wagon WAS pretty juicy bait.

[Wallflower]

Both Toogeloo and Tracer offering themselves up on a platter whilst also not is really throwing me

[Wallflower]

I suppose I see a town-Tracer world where they're frustrated with the game for whatever reason and can't be bothered, to some extent.

Whereas Togeloo's "I actually don't mind being elimed" feels more fake? Don't people want to make their MARK on the game? I can imagine a scenario where someone has put time and effort into a game and then doesn't mind being elimmed if that's what needs to happen, but Toogeloo hasn't done that. the approach of "oh I guess the worst and Ircher are town so the game is winnable, I've done my bit" doesn't really make sense to me when someone.... hasn't done much.

[Wallflower]

both Meg and Wallflower were very talkative early but now they've been more just throwing down votes.

To be clear: I know that Wallflower has still been posting and interacting and that Meg's been irl busy. I don't think either of their patterns is scummy per se but it's a very easy pattern for scum to have whereas Tracer's and Toog's are harder.

idk, but I feel like characterising my play and Mega's play in a similar boat is a bit strange.

Or maybe I'm just in a bad mood because I cut into an avocado this morning and it was unpleasantly both over- and under-ripe and so I had to have sultana bran instead.

SAD TIMES

[Wallflower]

Don't people want to make their MARK on the game?

Have we ever played together? I am always low effort unless I'm like really invested in a game, which isn't often.

Skating through Day 1 without doing much is my MO. And I always roll town.

Some of us just don't play Mafia that seriously. I make the commitment to log on at least once a day, read the thread, make a few replies that stuck out to me (bonus points for snark and/or humor), and then check out. I don't refresh the game to wait for replies. I just move on.

I have played this way for years. I don't need to make a mark on the game, and have never felt the need to do so.

---

Tracer, you still owe me an opening scene.

In regards to your comments, I get the impression I would have been damned if I did, damned if I didn't in regards to you. If I voted anyone other than you, I'm sure'd say I was bussing. But I vote for you, so it's a scum claim.

I voted for you because what amounts to two likely confirmed townies are also voting for you. Voting for SS is something I stated I would do as well, if necessary, but by your own comments, SS hasn't done anything, ergo they give the least information if flipped. So that is even more reason to vote you over them.

This doesn't feel like you from that monochromatic game where I knew you were scum, but that's also why I asked if you play differently as Tracer and Pooky.

I have been doing my best to separate the "effort-factor" from my read of you. And by making a mark, I don't mean anything BIG or BOLD, just the feeling of having done

something

.

[Wallflower]

VOTE: SS

Sorry I don't have the mental energy to meaningfully engage. I was typing up a post to explain a vote on tracer but honestly I can't justify it to myself over SS.

When you get the chance, I'm interested in why you made this vote. Do you think that S_S's griping about the two main wagons and shading of me comes from scum. I feel like scum aware of the gamestate probably doesn't throw my name out there at this point?

[Wallflower]

Soz Tracer, I think I've been too hard on you

[Wallflower]

I think there's enough scummy players that just flipping any of Tracer/Toog/SS is fine tbqh. That's probably my order of preference.

VOTE: Tracer ill be around for deadline

I get where you and Ircher are at, but lack of self-awareness is not scummy necessarily. I’m still trying to work out if this is just Tracer thinking that they’ve been more solve-y than they have or if it’s… something else.

[Wallflower]

I think Tracer should claim

[Wallflower]

I am going to be

V/LA for 2 days

I’m a bit bitter about Day 1, but now that I’ve said it I think I’m good. See you all in a bit

[Wallflower]

Well with two V/LA's that's gonna make this game even less lively than it used to be. Great.

I’m sorry! I’m still not quite out of the busy period yet unfortunately, but not long to go before I’ll be able to weigh in with my thoughts.

[Wallflower]

going forward

This makes it sound like you don't expect your elimination preference to change?

[Wallflower]

in my defense if im losing to scum!norwe its absolutely because I am easily pocketed by anyone who looks like they give a shit in a game where nobody looks like they give a shit

How likely do you think it is that Norwe is scum? I mean, posts like this feel kind of showy, especially when posting is less because of what are probably legitimate V/LAs given the Easter period. What's the point of the post. If you think Norwe is scum then you should vote Norwe. If you don't think Norwe is scum, then don't vote for him.

PEdit: What is it about a reads list from SS that would help? Say that SS is scum and they put names in places that make sense based on their previous posting, for example:

Town: Ircher, RCE
Townlean: Toogeloo, Tracer
Scumlean: Norwe
Scum: Wallflower

What would something like that tell you?

[Wallflower]

I think Norwegianboy is town. Going with the flashwagon on Mega in Post 736 feels like a town-move, since it was probably unnecessary for Norwe-scum. If Norwe-scum/Tracer-town, best to let Tracer go. IF Norwe-scum/Tracer-scum, Norwe-scum probably holds off a bit before fueling the wagon.
I think RCE is town, but I'm less sure. RCE's read on toog is weirdly absent from their posting, where I feel like scum would feel the need to say something on toog. The expressed read on me in Post 798 feels like something town would think, but I get the impresion that scum would second-guess themselves before making it because RCE themselves was not really... any more decisive than I was.
Maybe I'm diving too deep into the too-scummy-to-be-scum rabbit hole here? eurgh

I think I want to vote Tracer. I just don't get the sense that they are engaging with this game from a town/genuine place. I also think that Ircher's read of the game so far has been pretty solid, and I think we owe it to him to listen to what he has to say.

Toogeloo... feels frustratingly less engaged with the game, but I think I may be converting my frustration into a scumread rather than actually reading it based on what scum would/wouldn't do.

I guess an example of the difference between Tracer and Toogeloo for me is that in Post 770 Tracer goes with Ircher's dichotomy of Tracer vs. Toogeloo, even though later posting demonstrates a low opinion of Ircher's read of the game and Tracer should be engaged with the game to be able to assert reads outside of the dichotomy. Does Tracer even think Toogeloo is scum? I honestly wouldn't be able to tell you.
Toogeloo going with the dichotomy is much more believable based on their posting in-game, because they are not nearly as enaged as Tracer has been.

[Wallflower]

I didn't say what I think of S_S, but I wouldn't really have much to say

[Wallflower]

What reasoning in 662 are you wanting thoughts/questions on?

What you said about Tracer being actively involved in the game when they wouldn’t necessarily need to be as scum, was something I thought too and was a big part of my hesitation in voting them, but given the amount of expectation placed on Tracer from the start I don’t believe they could have gotten away with just coasting.

[Wallflower]

VOTE: Tracer Bullet

E-1

[Wallflower]

I absolutely want to kill Tracer or Toog today, but I also don't want to kill Tracer today, and I also don't want to kill Toog today.

And the solution is to suck it up and decide which of my towncases is weaker. Any thoughts/questions on my reasoning in 662 would be appreciated; I'm going to make an effort to dive into those reads a little more.

Going back to this, I’m interested in why you want to kill Tracer or Toog today.

[Wallflower]

I think Tracer is putting a lot more effort into defending themselves and proving their innocece than actually trying to solve the game, which is very much at odds with the repeated "I don't care if i'm limmed" mantra.

I get where you're at Norwe, but I think this is more likely to hit scum than any other vote atm.

[Wallflower]

I just want to say again that none of what I say should be viewed as an insult to your character or person.

There is more than one way to play this game. I simply do not like the way it is being done here. That is my own personal opinion.

You are all lovely people and I have enjoyed talking with each and every one of you.

Thanks Tracer. I have also enjoyed your presence in this game.

I truly believe that we are on opposite teams here, which makes it hard, but I look forward to an opportunity in the future where the cards may fall differently.

[Wallflower]

I feel like there’s something weird about Wallflower and Tracer.
What if there’s serious cross-bussing going on there.

I fairly strongly think Tracer is scum and I think once they arr flipped things will become a lot clearer.

[Wallflower]

I feel like what i’m doing with Something_Smart is i keep talking myself into thinking they are scum because i want them to be scum, so i don’t need to re-eval Wall and Tracer.
But S_S hasn’t actully done anything scummy really? They’ve just done relatively nothing.

Ain't that the truth...

I've done stuff, I'll grant that it isn't very much, I understand if you have trouble reading me because many people do. If you want to know where my head is at/chat about specific topics, I'm definitely down.

Is there a reason why you haven’t made a decision between toogeloo/tracer? Is there something you’re waiting for?

[Wallflower]

I don't even get this game currently because today both Tracer and I were at E-1 for hours with everyone posting.

This is what makes me doubt S_S being scum. He could have just hammered someone and it wouldn't have been problematic for them?

[Wallflower]

I'm not really willing to bet the entire game that Toogeloo flips mafia here.

I think there's a decent chance town are death tunneling me for shit reasons so this game is never going to be winnable as long as I'm alive.

and I'd rather die here than be a walking mislim at elo

I think you're just justifying your own exit from the game rather than seriously arguing self-hammering as town will be in favour of towns wincon.

if wallflower is town then if we mislim today she will vote me and we will lose

this is just a fact

I don't think this is representative of how I have played so far. On Day 1, Toogeloo was my preferred vote option over you, but Day 2 after reconsideration I have decided that Toogeloo is more likely town. It is true that I strongly think you are scum and I think that a lot of this is you pulling out everything you can to stay alive as scum, but I'll always take new information into account and re-evaluate.

[Wallflower]

I think once they arr flipped things will become a lot clearer.

I'm a bit curious. How do you think things will be clearer after a Tracer flip?

I'm still pretty confident in Tracer being scum

[Wallflower]

Also I think it's Tracer/RCE

I don't think Toogeloo or S_S are scum.

NorwegianBoy I get a bit paranoid of every so often, but I think that's probably silly.

[Wallflower]

Also,

The worst and Ircher both thought Tracer was scum.
I was probably the highest combined townread of Ircher/the worst and I think Tracer is scum.

I really think this is what we need to do

[Wallflower]

if the answer to that question is yes then it is absolutely representative of how you will play

The answer is very much “dunno”

[Wallflower]

I also don’t want to flip toogeloo

[Wallflower]

SS is very allergic to hammering town when he is mafia. He overvalues being townread against intermediate objectives like "killing people"

Thanks for this. It does make me question S_S's alignment more.

Okay, let's talk.

From my perspective, a you/RCE scumteam makes a lot of sense. I think that you got yourself in hot water early for whatever reason and have been playing balls to the wall since then, probably not really expecting it to work out as well as it did but once it did work with people going for that Megazu flashwagon have sort of kept it up. For example, the whole "I'll self-hammer" antic. You got multiple people fussing over you begging you to not self-hammer. Brilliant! I'm in awe.
RCE I used to think was town but on recall my reasons for thinking that were flimsy as. I also notice how RCE consistently brings up thinking you may be scum but never commits to it. Also multiple times attempts to promote interest in an alternative wagon (for e.g. S_S, then me with the nonsense vote/unvote) without actually wanting to be the force behind it.

But I could be wrong. I know I may be building up your scumgame too much in my head by seeing all of this as some master manipulative scumplay (although my theory is that a lot of it has been a bit... accidental), so I want to consider other options.

Tracer, who do you think is scum? What is a viable team here?

[Wallflower]

I'm assuming that with the worst killed, mafia no longer have daytalk, so even with S_S being hammer-averse, why doesn't Norwe hammer you. A you-town flip and Ircher kill leads to me being elim'd probably.

[Wallflower]

pondering if maybe we make a deal

I get yeeted today - you all deadsheep me on the Norwe/SS solution and kill them one after the other no questions asked.

if I'm wrong then you can blame me for being trash tier player post game.

I like your post on Norwe, but if I'm choosing between you/Norwe rn I probably still choose you.

I'm def on board with not limming Toog, and I agree that if you're town I would not know who to choose between SS and RCE.

[Wallflower]

oh sorry, I assumed it was some anti-swing mechanic where the mason encryptor being alive enabled mafia daytalk, but I realised the role PM was posted and it doesn't mention anything, so never mind!

[Wallflower]

my point about the dumbtell is

that you can't be mafia if you think a town encryptor getting killed actually disables mafia daytalk because that's literally not how an encryptor works and if you're mafia you would know that.

so if mafia you would've known that mafia daytalk was unaffected by encryptor death and faked the tell that you "don't know"

I'm kind of leaning towards this being a real dumbtell which means you're just town here.

I mean, I probably don't make sense as mafia anyway, but if that's how you get there then sure?

[Wallflower]

Tracer I think this play from Norwe makes your suggested Norwe-scum/Tracer-town world a lot less likely

[Wallflower]

Ircher! Toogeloo! Unite!

[Wallflower]

for what it's worth, you could vote for Tracer right now without it being the hammer. Don't miss out on this fantastic opportunity!

[Wallflower]

Ugh, I’m so sorry.

I’m going to have a good look through this to see what I’ve missed.

[Wallflower]

I'm still where I am yesterday but dead town says wall town.

It would be an interesting move from you as scum to not keep me open as a miselim target, but I do find it a bit hard to believe that you're not suspicious of me here after your expressed thoughts on me on previous days.

Also, I don't want to totally ignore Tracer on Norwe, but the idea of keeping SS in the game is a difficult one for me? I feel like I've allowed myself to let SS skate by for too long.

[Wallflower]

oh I'm a vanilla townie btw

[Wallflower]

RCE might be the way to go then

[Wallflower]

Yeah, RCE has to be the play today imo. I think S_S is town, and even if it is Norwe/Toogeloo, that's a loss because RCE-town lims me over Norwe right?

And I also don't actually think it's Norwe/Toogeloo

[Wallflower]

So S_S and Wall want RCE.

to be fair to S_S, I think he wants to read more first

[Wallflower]

scum rolled us. A game well played