Micro 1063: Even-Odd Killers | Game Over

[Testarossa]

39 rats are 39 too much

VOTE: 39 Rats

[Testarossa]

We are a shy bunch, aren't we?

VOTE: imaginality

[Testarossa]

Nah imagine I rolled SK
I can't even

Tbh I never really got the appeal of sk. It's just scum, just without friends. Sad life.

[Testarossa]

i mean, hey, maybe we can just not kill each other for once

you actually think this is scum ?

Sure, but still better than... this. It's so nothing right now.

Don't know, maybe. Just liked his entrance the least on review with announcing his schtick thing. Like who cares, more showing, less telling.

[Testarossa]

Of course.

Mafia would have said "didnt roll maf," and Town would have said "didnt roll town"

Interesting. I see it as the opposite, more likely to have come from Mafia. The non-denial denial. The truth, but not the whole truth.

I think that's pretty theoretical as it dismisses the characteristics of players. If I am not mistaking them, then Meg simply likes 3rd party roles a lot, which is why it's pretty nai to me.

Do you think Meg have been scummy aside from that opening? Assuming you were actually legit suspecting them when I got it right.

[Testarossa]

I'm good with my vote

Why though? The only thing that happened between this and your rvs was the vote on me and his comment on it.

[Testarossa]

I kind of like ceejay's 49. At least the first genuine town pings I got this game. The Enchant vote supports it, although Enchant is rather pretty null to me, but I felt about it kind of similar.

[Testarossa]

I'm good with my vote

Why though? The only thing that happened between this and your rvs was the vote on me and his comment on it.

That's the point isn't it.

But why was that scummy?

[Testarossa]

VOTE: Galron

[Testarossa]

I feel like I am reaching for straws, I don't really agree with imaginality's reasoning, however I think he really believes in what he has found on Meg and his read progression on ceejay seems to be in line... maybe town? I will probably just roll with it with nothing else on the hand.

@Meg:
What do you make out of the increasing townreads on ceejay?

[Testarossa]

Regarding my SK focus, I am actually primarily looking for the SK today. Reason being, it's an odd night tonight, and odd nights are SK kills. If we eliminate the SK today, we dodge a kill tonight.

If we should hit the SK today it would just mean that scum can kill in any nights like in any game. See the last rule in the op.

I guess both of your hydra are too experienced to call that a town slip, so I will just treat it neutrally. although I would intuitevely lean on it being a genuine mistake. Tbf I have been reserved about you because looking specific for the SK is something I would have expected from scum as it brings a lot of advantages with getting the SK early on D1. How do you distinguish between looking for SK and scum? So far all I see is coming from the early "joke claims" in the beginning? (and treatment of those)

[Testarossa]

Meg, what I don't really understand is, that if you are town and you are leaning town on Galron, then basically both "major wagons" (if you can call it like that with 2-3 votes), where the game has been stagnating for a while now have been on town. Yet you are going solely for ceejay who has been off both wagons.

While it is not unlikely that scum stays off major D1 wagons I miss the interaction of you with players from both wagons. Like what do you think of the wagons? All town on town? Who might be scum there?

[Testarossa]

That's the thing. It was status quo. I had been scum reading him to that point, nothing happened and I still scum read him.

Hm, ok, I was assuming your vote was originally rvs. Although it doesn't really change that much for me, it still raises the question what made you scumread him to begin with. ceejay's first two posts look pretty null to me.

[Testarossa]

otherwise, you / imaginality probably town, i think rats would be maf if they end up being scum due to how they reacted to their misundersteanding of the setup

Actually what do you mean here? Who are you referring to with "they"? I am almost certain I am misunderstanding this part.

[Testarossa]

I am ultimately fine with staying on Galron. Gypyx and Kop might be alternatives for me. Gypyx more because I have no clue what to do with that slot though.

My first impression of Kop is rather negative. However maybe I need to give that one a bit time and see where he stands yet.

Not too convinced about Meg yet. I have been wondering how difficult it might be for scum to fake some suspicions so far, since almost everyone has problems with coming up with a decent vote and Meg's ceejay vote kind of fits the bill imo. Just didn't felt that believable like imaginality's early Meg vote in comparision. But I liked their response to my question. It didn't felt bullshitty to me at least.

[Testarossa]

Kop, who is scum?

[Testarossa]

Hm, what a weird kill. Did the SK seriously thought imaginality would be Galron's partner? Ehhh

[Testarossa]

So the Galron wagon was at two votes for most of the time without any real backlash. When rats joined the Gypyx wagon came up. However from flipped town and ceejay, who I am still townreading.

My usual rule of thumb on a slow wagon with no backlash and D1 scumflip is that it might have been a bus, but I don't really see it here. Enchant just nah, rats remained on Galron despite signalizing they could compromise on Gypyx. Their interactions with Galron don't seem like partners either. ceejay neither, his vote was the nail on Galron's coffin with abandoning Gypyx, he could have just waited for rats compromising.

Chances are not too bad that this was mostly town. Or at least non-scum. Doubts still on Meg though.

That would mean, that there was no fighting because Galron's partner wasn't really present, which would imply Gypyx or Kop. It's noticeable that Galron avoided voting Gypyx and Meg, which would have been maybe the best shots to get out alive. Well, maybe Meg not so much.

[Testarossa]

I am kind of on [Gypyx, Kop, Meg] right now.

Just checked Gypyx ISO and didn't felt anything at all. I have to take a closer look here. Intuition may say maybe lost townie. ehhh

Meg got better for me during D1, however their townread on Galron and equalizing the Gypyx wagon with Galron didn't age too well for them in retrospect.

Kop hasn't given one single read and all he did so far was dismissing things (including townread on flipped town) or saying why some things can't be. Rather destructive type of posts. Between the lines he seemed on the fence about Galron too, but didn't really commit to it then.

VOTE: Kop

[Testarossa]

What's interesting is that his predecessor posted this about Galron:

I'm SK just btw everyone

Galron is scum based on page 1

Which makes me think he could at least be, uh... not mafia.

I mean, to be fair he literally claimed SK in the very same post, so I am not sure how serious that read actually was.

Admittedly the short interaction between him and Galron after that post is the one thing that gives me some doubt. It's an odd one to make as partners.

I remember you had N_M in your mid tier of those players that you don't want to lim on D1. Was it for a particular reason?

[Testarossa]

What do you think about meg being a potential busser? imo the bahavior fits

-> tried to help the wagon on me get though the end

-> basically never told an opinion on the galron wagon, even though he showed some fairly big interest towards it

stuff like that

Meg I don’t understand why you are more pinged by 34 where ceejay has a vote that he’s not particularly confident on but you have no concerns with 79 where galron has a confident read that he has yet to explain?

It's not the vote I had the problem with, it was that they were asked if they had a reason and they basically replied yes, but im not saying it

I find most hammers are rather nai. Tbf if I would have been in Meg's shoes I would have just lurked it out at eod and gambled for the no lim. After all neither you, Kop or imaginality did when they were there. Although that's what I would have made, not necessarily Meg. I kind of feel if Meg would be the partner they would have just hammered earlier, like it was already earlier clear how it would end.

Yeah, some of Meg's actions aren't looking to good for them, their ceejay scumread is still something I have to review, because I remember it felt so insincere.

I disagree about never giving an opinion about the Galron wagon though. When I asked them for it they said it felt like town on town wagon for them, which is imo strategically not a good statement as scum as it limits your options unnecessarily, especially with Galron being the lone leading wagon at that point 2 days before deadline.

[Testarossa]

i'm also actually wondering why Enchant is given a pass by so many peoples

I see you bothered a lot about Enchant and talking about Enchant with others, but never really talking with Enchant.You said you don't like with what Enchat chooses to interact with, yet you don't try to poke him and engage with him on other grounds. Why no attempts in that regard?

Also can you explain how your read developed on rats? 128 looks like you suspected them to be possibly scum at some point?

[Testarossa]

@Kop:
I am a little bit concerned that you are just focusing on Meg. What is your take on Gypyx or maybe others?

[Testarossa]

I am mostly scumreading Kop here while my only doubts about that slot come from N_M's short interaction with Galron, which looks kind of weird. Kop is way too defensive imo.

How do you distinguish between N_Mtown and N_Mscum?

[Testarossa]

Garh, I thought Meg was your prime suspect. How did they end up last in your voting order?

[Testarossa]

And yeah, i ignored the galron wagon, probably dumb of me, but it just didn't make ~feel~ anything, like, i was "yeah, Galron's being pretty sus i guess, but i don't really acheive anything by parking a vote here" eod was obviously different, but i kinda lost track of time there

But you didn't really achieved anything with your imaginality vote either? You were there literally for the whole day without pressuring him.

[Testarossa]

Since it wasn't Kop as Galron's partner, the only solve that makes sense to me right now is Meg Mafia and Gypyx SK.

I don't see Megscum shotting Gypyx here or vice versa. Both need the other to survive to D3 as the probability that town will just continue to hunt the second Goon in those two is pretty high. If only one is left, then... yeah.

The SK was on the Galron wagon (not counting Meg, since they only hammered in last minute). It's kind of the conclusion from the imaginality kill anyway imo.

[Testarossa]

We'd thought that if you were Galron's buddy, you'd have either not hammered or not defended him as explicitly as you did.

However, Kop was the only other one who made sense as a buddy, so I have to have been wrong on you.

@RR why can’t Gypyx be mafia?

Huh?

[Testarossa]

I don't see Megscum shotting Gypyx here or vice versa. Both need the other to survive to D4 as the probability that town will just continue to hunt the second Goon in those two is pretty high. If only one is left, then... yeah.

The SK was on the Galron wagon (not counting Meg, since they only hammered in last minute). It's kind of the conclusion from the imaginality kill anyway imo.

Fixed D3 to D4. Forgot we are already at D3.

[Testarossa]

Why couldn’t SK have been offwagon?

I mean, Gypyx indeed has the most overlapping with being either scum or also SK thanks to imaginality's scumread. Maybe it's just my thinking, but I find it so suboptimal for the SK to shoot down the pool of players you can hide within by yourself. It was pretty predictable that town would hunt off the wagon. Also as I said, Meg/Gypyx targeting the other seems too weird, when both are already the frontrunners for the next lim.

[Testarossa]

We'd thought that if you were Galron's buddy, you'd have either not hammered or not defended him as explicitly as you did.

However, Kop was the only other one who made sense as a buddy, so I have to have been wrong on you.

@RR why can’t Gypyx be mafia?

Huh?

However, it’s also possible that Gypyx could be Galron buddy offwagon.

I was actually just confused why you were asking yourself why Gypyx can't be Mafia when you just voted her. I guess it wasn't the other hydra head then who voted, nevermind.

[Testarossa]

Tbh I am kind of back at Megscum.

While I assumed a bus was unlikely due to the nature of this setup, it would consequently mean that the second scum will take stronger stances to support their partner, which would just point to Meg. When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras.

Their D2 wasn't that exciting either, just going with the flow, not much scumhunting. It's also a bit weird, that they didn't really bothered much with Gypyx considering they were happy enough to compromise on her over Galron on D1.

[Testarossa]

VOTE: MegAzumarill

Going to reread the game in the evening. I feel a bit uncomfortable that I am just looking at it with a fixed mind.

[Testarossa]

Nice one, Enchant was my sk read, so it looks plausible enough to me. Would have just been interesting to see if we would have gotten an Enchant wagon without the guilty to lure the second scum out, but more likely there wouldn't have happened too much anyway. Just a a bit salty, that your other result doesn't do anything to my poe lol

When did you target whom? @Gypyx

[Testarossa]

Just a reminder that Enchant is E-1 and basically can self-hammer. In case we still want to talk stuff.

I think we should hammer when everyone had checked in at least once.

[Testarossa]

I am really not sure what to think of that. From a mechanical point of view it kind of makes sense to spare Enchant for one day, we are not in a losing position. In worst case Gypyx dies, what would happen either way if we lim Enchant today. Even independent if Enchant is actually SK or just trolling Goon. If Enchant plays along we get another Co result, which is pretty huge.

I think my hesitance comes from it feeling like foul sportmanship towards the other scum. Although this may just come because I have been in the same shoes once and I just raged passionately from D1 till elo about a townsiding SK in the Mafia chat.

Eh, I guess it's one of these issues where just majority decides.

[Testarossa]

If Enchant is actually Goon, this would make Meg most likely town btw.

I think it might be worth to check who were playing around Enchant as scum must have assumed he might be Cop to actually target him. He didn't really expressed any reads besides voting Gypyx D2 and Galron D1 and maybe hinting at scumreading Meg on D1 (106).

[Testarossa]

Whilst that is a convenient claim to make, I haven't exactly covered myself in glory to prove that I am, a VT. But I'm telling you the truth.

It's too close to deadline to switch to another wagon, but if I had to switch, the only real option that could flip scum, would be gypsy. I don't think she's exactly covered herself in glory.

I think the strong two town in my mind of Rats and Testarossa, that leaves the last scum and SK within enchant, Gyspy, meg and outside chance of ceejay.

My voting order personally would go in this order, gypsy. enchant, ceejay and Meg. I don't think I can see it being within the two town in my mind.

VOTE: Gypsy

I think we should probably follow dead town’s lead. Idk about Enchant because I think hiis stance on Kop looked pretty damned townie to me but Gypyx is still my strongest sr too.

VOTE: Gypyx

I am not sure rats would enter this day following dead townie's leads and single out Enchant with more leaning town on him with the knowledge of Enchant being SK. They only turned against Enchant because he started coming up with the suggestion for the Cop claim.

[Testarossa]

Somehow I am insecure what people are waiting for.

[Testarossa]

Actually I think I might have hit upon the real solve here. Enchant is Mafia and Meg is SK.

I've been sitting here trying to work out in my head and with Nancy how Meg can possibly think not having conftown alive for endgame is better than having conftown alive, and it actually does make sense from a scum perspective. Supporting this no-lim scheme is a solid way to look town, and since it ends up putting them in a slightly better position than otherwise, they might as well.

So yeah, we just vote Enchant, and if he flips Mafia, go for Meg. If he does flip SK, then well. We play Mafia, like we all signed up to do.

No, scum hunted for the Cop and never shot Meg here. I see no one shooting Meg here. Pretty sure Enchant would have just pushed against Meg and not wait for the Cop claim.

If Enchant is the Goon it's either between you or ceejay. If he is SK it's unfortunately between all remaining three.

[Testarossa]

VOTE: Enchant

As someone who learned this game without no lims I can't really bring myself to vote that, so in doubt just kill the guilty. Everyone should decide for themselves though.

@Meg:
Also happy bday, even although I am out for your blood. If it's not you, who is the scum between ceejay and rats?

[Testarossa]

Somehow I am insecure what people are waiting for.

They wait before Gypix/You decide who i should kill.

But Gypix being Gypix, it takes hilariously long, so maybe you bother?

That's why I hate being conftown.

I don't know, Meg maybe if it comes to it? I don't really trust it lol

[Testarossa]

I have some thoughts, but not sure if it can wait till next day. Unless next day is checkmate when we got no lim.

I kind of want to know who everyone has as the second scum.

[Testarossa]

Considering we are straight heading for the no lim route (not by vote but by the timer running out) we don't really have any other option than hoping for the best, otherwise... yeah.

Enchant kills Meg

And Gypyx or whoever replaces her Cop checks in ceejay/Rats.

In theory the game would be over by that. If it happens is a different story.

[Testarossa]

The whole situation is so weird, what is even this.

[Testarossa]

How can Enchant kill Meg if Meg is SK?

The fact is we don’t know who the SK actually is and your trusting a player who’s mech guiltied.

No lim is making unconfirmed assumptions.

I think that’s gamethrowing. Shouldn’t we wait for both Gypyx and ceejay to check in?

I am voting Enchant and I think I have said everything that should be said about it. The moment I made my last post there were 5-6 hours on the timer till deadline and 2 of 6 people are inactive, leaving me, you, Meg and Enchant. 2 of these remaining 4 are most likely evil, which should say everything about what I am expecting here. I don't trust Enchant. At this point I am merely taking care that everything is covered, just in case he actually does what he wants to sell to us here.

Enchant is never surviving this game. Either he get limmed today or next day. Always.

Why do you think he is scum over SK anyway? I don't see someone, who is so aware of setup and mechanics, hardbussing his partner on D1 without doing anything else, in a setup where the SK gets the first shot over scum and a Cop, that can instantly guilty him without any means of defence.

[Testarossa]

Everyone still alive except Gypyx was on that wagon including confitown!Tetra.

So everyone helped lim him.

This is why. There’s no way mafia didn’t bus.

I mean, obviously, but straight from the beginning without doing anything else? Ehhh, I suspect a busser is more among you/ceejay/Meg. Enchant's play overall just looks more like a lone wolf trying to stay under the radar.

[Testarossa]

Eh.

I don't want to be blunt, but Testarossa just fears even 0.1% chance of dying and places survivalism higher than town win.

Huh? I am literally voting confscum and will never die over Gypyx unless SK doesn't like my nose.

[Testarossa]

Why? Since everyone alive but Gypyx voted him?

Nah, he made it serious when he was the only vote on Galron and doubled down when Gypyx wagon just went 3:3 with Galron. He had several opportunities to back off and never did. He genuinely wanted to lim scum.

[Testarossa]

Why? Since everyone alive but Gypyx voted him?

Nah, he made it serious when he was the only vote on Galron and doubled down when Gypyx wagon just went 3:3 with Galron. He had several opportunities to back off and never did. He genuinely wanted to lim scum.

How is this not true for everyone who was on that wagon?

Only Galron obviously, dead town and Gypyx were off it.

I mean ceejay was temporarily off it and Meg only hammered. And ceejay abandoned the Gypyx wagon right after Enchant doubled down. Everyone had alternatives, he simply didn't do anything else. Unless he is a notorious hardbusser.

[Testarossa]

Somehow it feels super weird to discuss what a confscum is going to flip when we will see it anyway either sooner or later.

[Testarossa]

Oh, so game is over then.

Sorry it played out like that, rats. As I said, had been in a similar situation too and it really sucks, hope you putting up that fight last day wasn't too unfun. I thought you two played well.

[Testarossa]

Our only mistake is not switching our vote to Gypyx but I do respect you conceding, I’m still pissed but at least you’re doing that.

It just really sucks when you play well and you get fucked by the setup essentially.

I guess it was bad luck that Galron wasn't around when Gypyx came up. In hindsight banking on town's apathy might have payed off to force the Gypyx lim. Game would have been completely different from there on.